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Groups > sci.physics > #706328 > unrolled thread

'Space' is never empty

Started byMusatov <tomusatov@gmail.com>
First post2018-10-05 19:08 -0700
Last post2018-10-12 13:32 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 123 — 15 participants

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  'Space' is never empty Musatov <tomusatov@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 19:08 -0700
    Re: 'Space' is never empty Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-10-05 21:54 -0500
      Re: 'Space' is never empty mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-10-05 22:21 -0700
    Re: 'Space' is never empty poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-10-05 23:27 -0700
    Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-06 14:54 +0000
      Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-06 17:17 -0400
        Re: 'Space' is never empty Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-10-06 16:46 -0500
          Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-06 22:10 -0400
      Re: 'Space' is never empty poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-10-06 21:31 -0700
        Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-07 12:25 +0000
          Re: 'Space' is never empty john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-10-07 05:31 -0700
            Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-07 14:30 +0000
          Re: 'Space' is never empty poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-10-07 09:07 -0700
            Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-07 20:36 +0000
              Re: 'Space' is never empty poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-10-07 21:31 -0700
                Re: 'Space' is never empty john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 06:02 -0700
                  Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 11:54 -0400
                  Re: 'Space' is never empty Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 10:24 -0700
                    Re: 'Space' is never empty john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 12:33 -0700
                      Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 19:44 +0000
                        Re: 'Space' is never empty john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-10-09 09:00 -0700
                          Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-09 18:58 +0000
                            Re: 'Space' is never empty john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-10-09 14:53 -0700
                              Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-09 20:59 -0400
                                Re: 'Space' is never empty mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-10-09 21:23 -0700
                                Re: 'Space' is never empty Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-10-10 05:52 -0700
                                  Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-10 09:44 -0400
                                    Re: 'Space' is never empty john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-10-10 06:59 -0700
                                      Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-10 15:59 +0000
                                        Re: 'Space' is never empty john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-10-10 09:12 -0700
                                        Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-10 18:01 -0400
                                          Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-10 22:14 +0000
                                            Re: 'Space' is never empty john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-10-10 15:41 -0700
                                              Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-11 00:07 +0000
                                                Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-10 20:50 -0400
                                                  Re: 'Space' is never empty john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-10-10 23:33 -0700
                                                  Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-11 13:06 +0000
                                                    Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-11 13:01 -0400
                                                      Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-11 17:57 +0000
                                                        Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-11 18:28 -0400
                                                          Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-11 22:52 +0000
                                                          Re: 'Space' is never empty Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-10-17 09:58 -0700
                                                            Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-17 15:57 -0400
                                                              Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-17 22:34 +0000
                                              Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-10 20:45 -0400
                                                Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-11 13:06 +0000
                                                  Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-11 13:13 -0400
                                                    Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-11 17:57 +0000
                                                      Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-11 18:52 -0400
                                                        Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-11 22:56 +0000
                                                          Re: 'Space' is never empty john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 05:55 -0700
                                                            Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 13:15 +0000
                                                              Re: 'Space' is never empty john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 06:51 -0700
                                                                Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 14:13 +0000
                                                                  Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 12:07 -0400
                                                                    Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 17:52 +0000
                                                                      Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 17:20 -0400
                                                                        Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 22:11 +0000
                                                                          Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 21:49 -0400
                                                                            Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-13 13:35 +0000
                                                                              Re: 'Space' is never empty poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-10-13 21:59 -0700
                                                                              You can't _ measure motion if you never stop measuring. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-10-13 22:51 -0700
                                                Re: 'Space' is never empty Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-10-11 10:17 -0700
                                                  Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-11 18:20 -0400
                                                    Re: 'Space' is never empty Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-10-17 09:50 -0700
                                                      Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-17 15:24 -0400
                                                        Re: 'Space' is never empty mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-10-17 12:47 -0700
                                            Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-10 20:43 -0400
                                              Re: 'Space' is never empty poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-10-11 00:03 -0700
                                              Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-11 12:29 +0000
                                                Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-11 12:49 -0400
                                                  Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-11 16:59 +0000
                                                    Re: 'Space' is never empty poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-10-11 18:23 -0700
                                                      Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 13:27 +0000
                                                        Re: 'Space' is never empty poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-10-12 07:39 -0700
                                                        Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 12:00 -0400
                                                Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-10-13 22:38 -0700
                                                  Re: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid. poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-10-13 23:39 -0700
                                                  Re: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-14 14:45 +0000
                                                    Re: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-10-14 08:04 -0700
                                                      Re: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-14 16:12 +0000
                                                        Re: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-10-14 09:33 -0700
                                                          Re: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-14 20:20 +0000
                                                            Re: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid. mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-10-14 13:40 -0700
                                                            Re: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-10-14 13:52 -0700
                                                              Re: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-14 21:09 +0000
                                                                Re: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid. mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-10-14 18:18 -0700
                                                                Re: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-10-15 05:34 -0700
                                                                  Re: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-15 14:24 +0000
                                                          Re: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid. poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-10-14 21:44 -0700
                                                    Re: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid. Rogue Cormac <kremvax2004@yahoo.com> - 2018-10-14 10:58 -0600
                                                      Re: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid. Hadron Quark <hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2018-10-14 19:06 +0200
                                                  Re: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid. Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2018-10-14 14:49 -0700
                                                    Re: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-14 23:06 +0000
                                              Re: 'Space' is never empty Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-10-11 10:34 -0700
                                          Re: 'Space' is never empty "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 09:33 -0700
                                            Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 12:48 -0400
                                              Re: 'Space' is never empty mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-10-12 13:35 -0700
                                                Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 17:29 -0400
                                                  Re: 'Space' is never empty mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-10-13 11:10 -0700
                                                    Re: 'Space' is never empty Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-10-17 14:33 -0500
                                              Re: 'Space' is never empty poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-10-12 18:58 -0700
                                                Re: 'Space' is never empty poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-10-12 23:54 -0700
                              Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-10 13:22 +0000
                                Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-10 09:42 -0400
                                  Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-10 15:59 +0000
                Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 13:21 +0000
                  Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 11:55 -0400
                    Re: 'Space' is never empty mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-10-08 09:47 -0700
                    Re: 'Space' is never empty Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-10-08 11:51 -0500
                  Re: 'Space' is never empty poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-10-08 09:58 -0700
                    Re: 'Space' is never empty Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 17:13 +0000
                      Re: 'Space' is never empty yporat08@gmail.com - 2018-10-17 12:04 -0700
                  Re: 'Space' is never empty poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-10-10 17:39 -0700
                    Re: 'Space' is never empty Ivan Smith <invalid@example.com> - 2018-10-11 08:28 -0700
                      Re: 'Space' is never empty poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-10-11 18:20 -0700
                    Re: 'Space' is never empty Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-10-11 19:43 -0500
        Re: 'Space' is never empty Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 10:20 -0700
          Re: 'Space' is never empty yporat08@gmail.com - 2018-10-17 11:58 -0700
            Re: 'Space' is never empty mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-10-17 12:13 -0700
              Re: 'Space' is never empty benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-17 15:51 -0400
    'Space' is never empty john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-10-06 07:55 -0700
    Re: 'Space' is never empty mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-10-12 13:32 -0700

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#707850

Fromporaty149@gmail.com
Date2018-10-13 21:59 -0700
Message-ID<c59ca754-170c-4cea-bb25-6294b8b6ca85@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#707650
On Saturday, October 13, 2018 at 4:35:28 PM UTC+3, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 10/12/2018 6:11 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >> benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On 10/12/2018 1:52 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >>>> benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> On 10/12/2018 10:13 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >>>>>> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Odd
> >>>>>>> “I think I’d like to defer to Ben Jacoby, who can try to explain to you what”
> >>>>>>> You don’t want to discuss
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> I don’t want to train you.
> >>>>>> Discussion is a conversation between people who know something about a
> >>>>>> subject. You haven’t bothered to learn enough about the subject to discuss
> >>>>>> it intelligently.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>> I'm Ben Jacoby, Odd, and I say you can't hold a conversation even though
> >>>>> you have memorized a lot of "statements" about physics but you never
> >>>>> bothered to understand the IDEAS behind those statements.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Third time I’ve asked, Ben. What idea do you want to discuss?
> >>> 
> >>> Quite trying to avoid the issue by changing the subject. It does not
> >>> matter "what I want to discuss" what matters is that you are incapable
> >>> of ANY discussion of ANY idea because you are too busy repeating your
> >>> religious dogma.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> Ben, it seems the only thing you want to discuss is my unwillingness to
> >> discuss anything.
> >> 
> >> Do you want to discuss some physics? Yes or no?
> >> 
> > It's the purpose of this group. But clearly nobody here is interested in 
> > doing that. Is it a fractal universe or not? When Hermes Trismegistus 
> > said: "As above, so below". Was he saying it's a fractal universe?
> > 
> 
> It isn’t a fractal universe, because it lacks self-similarity at all
> scales. There are features of the universe that are fractal, but not the
> whole thing. As for Thrice Great Hermès, he was preceded by Parmenides and
> Zeno in the thoughts of infinite regression. On the other hand, by
> following the consequences of such thinking, Zeno concluded motion is
> impossible and an illusion. These are philosophical ideas, not science. 

================================
right !!yet see my thread> 
'Empty space *??!!
2
wHat are the PHYSICAL Dimensions of sPace ?

just ''Meter'''alone  (and no mass '_
can do  any force ??!!
3
can a photon move in **straight lines*
in space that is not absolutely empty
and along hundreds of light years ??
=====
TIA
Y.P
=======================

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#707852 — You can't _ measure motion if you never stop measuring.

FromJeff-Relf.Me @.
Date2018-10-13 22:51 -0700
SubjectYou can't _ measure motion if you never stop measuring.
Message-ID<Jeff-Relf.Me@Oct.13--10.51pm.Seattle.2018>
In reply to#707650
> Zeno concluded motion is impossible and an illusion.

You can't _ measure motion if you never stop measuring.

Our ability to measure varies with scale;
many things can't be measured, such as the "mass" of a photon,
or the volume of a "singularity".

My "theory of everything" ( including our feeble minds ):

2016, NASA's Fermi Gamma-ray Space Telescope found 
the brightest objects known to man: gamma-ray blazars,
Two Trillion times the sun's output.

They're young, of course, just 1.4 billion years old, 
multi-billion-solar-mass black holes, in "Active Galactic Nuclei".

Like The Known Universe itself, blazars had more exergy,
less entropy, when they were younger. 

At the start, there was "no entropy" ("no time, no space"), just "eXergy" 
( a type of energy that can do physical work, force * distance ).

Everything decays, even gravity; hence the arrow of time.
Entropy converts blazars into SpaceTime.  Gravity is residual eXergy.

Eventually, this eXergy will be consumed away, replaced with entropy,
leaving us with a uniform heat bath that has all of the energy
but none of the eXergy.  

Einstein's Cosmological Constant ( 1.11 * 10^−52 / Meters^2 ) tells us 
that outer space is growing EXPONENTIALLY, gravity is dying off;
-- i.e. the "Heat Death" predicted by Lord Kelvin, 1852,
   is the most likley outcome.

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#707196

FromEdward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com>
Date2018-10-11 10:17 -0700
Message-ID<78e07524-f033-4c16-932e-0e3665a5e84d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#707062
On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 8:45:50 PM UTC-4, benj wrote:
> On 10/10/2018 6:41 PM, john wrote:
> > Odd
> > “I don’t find mathematics indecipherable. Maybe you and John do. Maybe you
> > think this is”
> > Translate it into something that makes sense.
> > EXPLAIN your understanding.
> > 
> Since mathematics is just a shorthand language of symbols, it is obvious 
> that anyone who understands mathematics can also translate the meaning 
> of any math into the long form of words. I've never heard Odd do that, 
> have you?

benj,
Oversimplified nonsense. It is not just a matter of translating
"F=ma" into "Force equals mass times acceleration". It is the description
of how such ideas are applied and the precision of the results and
the elegance of the mathematics that are part of truly understanding
the physics as it describes the real world. Even that simple F=ma has
been described in many ways in many books including but not limited
to physics text books. All those descriptions do not provide the full
meaning as well as a good understanding of the physics of F=ma.

Enjoy,
  ed

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#707323

Frombenj <benj.fake@gmail.com>
Date2018-10-11 18:20 -0400
Message-ID<ppoibu$1cj2$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#707196
On 10/11/2018 1:17 PM, Edward Prochak wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 8:45:50 PM UTC-4, benj wrote:
>> On 10/10/2018 6:41 PM, john wrote:
>>> Odd
>>> “I don’t find mathematics indecipherable. Maybe you and John do. Maybe you
>>> think this is”
>>> Translate it into something that makes sense.
>>> EXPLAIN your understanding.
>>>
>> Since mathematics is just a shorthand language of symbols, it is obvious
>> that anyone who understands mathematics can also translate the meaning
>> of any math into the long form of words. I've never heard Odd do that,
>> have you?
> 
> benj,
> Oversimplified nonsense. It is not just a matter of translating
> "F=ma" into "Force equals mass times acceleration". It is the description
> of how such ideas are applied and the precision of the results and
> the elegance of the mathematics that are part of truly understanding
> the physics as it describes the real world. Even that simple F=ma has
> been described in many ways in many books including but not limited
> to physics text books. All those descriptions do not provide the full
> meaning as well as a good understanding of the physics of F=ma.
> 
> Enjoy,
>    ed

You and Odd have no idea of the relationship between mathematics and 
science. The "elegance" of math does not create "elegance" in science 
except in your fantasy world. Math is precise because it's DEFINED that
way. F=ma is NOT physics. It is mathematics! Describing mathematics in 
words is NOT the same thing as describing the physics. Math is only a 
MODEL of the reality. You (and Odd) somehow have developed the idea 
(along with much of modern post-Einstein science) that math is more real 
than reality. It is NOT. What is "acceleration"? It's not even a real 
quanity. It is PURE fantasy. What does "times" mean? None of this is 
physics. Physics would ask what is a force? What is mass? How do they 
seem related. Until you get the physics knowing the math even in words 
is meaningless.

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#708606

FromEdward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com>
Date2018-10-17 09:50 -0700
Message-ID<8a143e0b-79f4-4292-960a-124b24938ae2@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#707323
On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 6:20:52 PM UTC-4, benj wrote:
> On 10/11/2018 1:17 PM, Edward Prochak wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 8:45:50 PM UTC-4, benj wrote:
> >> On 10/10/2018 6:41 PM, john wrote:
> >>> Odd
> >>> “I don’t find mathematics indecipherable. Maybe you and John do. Maybe you
> >>> think this is”
> >>> Translate it into something that makes sense.
> >>> EXPLAIN your understanding.
> >>>
> >> Since mathematics is just a shorthand language of symbols, it is obvious
> >> that anyone who understands mathematics can also translate the meaning
> >> of any math into the long form of words. I've never heard Odd do that,
> >> have you?
> > 
> > benj,
> > Oversimplified nonsense. It is not just a matter of translating
> > "F=ma" into "Force equals mass times acceleration". It is the description
> > of how such ideas are applied and the precision of the results and
> > the elegance of the mathematics that are part of truly understanding
> > the physics as it describes the real world. Even that simple F=ma has
> > been described in many ways in many books including but not limited
> > to physics text books. All those descriptions do not provide the full
> > meaning as well as a good understanding of the physics of F=ma.
> > 
> > Enjoy,
> >    ed
> 
> You and Odd have no idea of the relationship between mathematics and 
> science. The "elegance" of math does not create "elegance" in science 
> except in your fantasy world. Math is precise because it's DEFINED that
> way. F=ma is NOT physics. It is mathematics! Describing mathematics in 
> words is NOT the same thing as describing the physics. Math is only a 
> MODEL of the reality. You (and Odd) somehow have developed the idea 
> (along with much of modern post-Einstein science) that math is more real 
> than reality. It is NOT.

You have totally misunderstood what I said and reached 
(possibly deliberately) a false and misleading conclusion.

>       What is "acceleration"? It's not even a real 
> quanity. It is PURE fantasy. What does "times" mean? None of this is 
> physics. Physics would ask what is a force? What is mass? How do they 
> seem related. Until you get the physics knowing the math even in words 
> is meaningless.

Sorry you are close, but no cigar. The mathematics and measurements
are the elements that make modern physics. You cannot truly know the
physics without at least some knowledge of the mathematics.

Remember Lord Kelvin.
ed


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#708635

Frombenj <benj.fake@gmail.com>
Date2018-10-17 15:24 -0400
Message-ID<pq829k$1eb$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#708606
On 10/17/2018 12:50 PM, Edward Prochak wrote:
> On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 6:20:52 PM UTC-4, benj wrote:
>> On 10/11/2018 1:17 PM, Edward Prochak wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 8:45:50 PM UTC-4, benj wrote:
>>>> On 10/10/2018 6:41 PM, john wrote:
>>>>> Odd
>>>>> “I don’t find mathematics indecipherable. Maybe you and John do. Maybe you
>>>>> think this is”
>>>>> Translate it into something that makes sense.
>>>>> EXPLAIN your understanding.
>>>>>
>>>> Since mathematics is just a shorthand language of symbols, it is obvious
>>>> that anyone who understands mathematics can also translate the meaning
>>>> of any math into the long form of words. I've never heard Odd do that,
>>>> have you?
>>>
>>> benj,
>>> Oversimplified nonsense. It is not just a matter of translating
>>> "F=ma" into "Force equals mass times acceleration". It is the description
>>> of how such ideas are applied and the precision of the results and
>>> the elegance of the mathematics that are part of truly understanding
>>> the physics as it describes the real world. Even that simple F=ma has
>>> been described in many ways in many books including but not limited
>>> to physics text books. All those descriptions do not provide the full
>>> meaning as well as a good understanding of the physics of F=ma.
>>>
>>> Enjoy,
>>>     ed
>>
>> You and Odd have no idea of the relationship between mathematics and
>> science. The "elegance" of math does not create "elegance" in science
>> except in your fantasy world. Math is precise because it's DEFINED that
>> way. F=ma is NOT physics. It is mathematics! Describing mathematics in
>> words is NOT the same thing as describing the physics. Math is only a
>> MODEL of the reality. You (and Odd) somehow have developed the idea
>> (along with much of modern post-Einstein science) that math is more real
>> than reality. It is NOT.
> 
> You have totally misunderstood what I said and reached
> (possibly deliberately) a false and misleading conclusion.
> 
>>        What is "acceleration"? It's not even a real
>> quanity. It is PURE fantasy. What does "times" mean? None of this is
>> physics. Physics would ask what is a force? What is mass? How do they
>> seem related. Until you get the physics knowing the math even in words
>> is meaningless.
> 
> Sorry you are close, but no cigar. The mathematics and measurements
> are the elements that make modern physics. You cannot truly know the
> physics without at least some knowledge of the mathematics.
> 
> Remember Lord Kelvin.
> ed

You have misinterpreted what I'm saying (deliberately?). I did not say 
mathematics was useless in science. However the statement that one can 
only know physics if one knows mathematics is clearly wrong. Mathematics 
is simply a descriptive language of science. To assert that one language 
is the ONLY language that one can use to describe science data is, well, 
as obvious nonsense as saying that one can only truly know literature 
without at least some knowledge of English!

You miss my point that there is science and there is a handy shorthand 
language that can represent those facts. To say that those two things 
are the same and interchangeable is oversimplification.


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#708641

Frommitchrae3323@gmail.com
Date2018-10-17 12:47 -0700
Message-ID<6b1a7ac7-194e-46fa-9ec1-e43dfca11cfe@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#708635
On Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 12:24:41 PM UTC-7, benj wrote:
> On 10/17/2018 12:50 PM, Edward Prochak wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 6:20:52 PM UTC-4, benj wrote:
> >> On 10/11/2018 1:17 PM, Edward Prochak wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 8:45:50 PM UTC-4, benj wrote:
> >>>> On 10/10/2018 6:41 PM, john wrote:
> >>>>> Odd
> >>>>> “I don’t find mathematics indecipherable. Maybe you and John do. Maybe you
> >>>>> think this is”
> >>>>> Translate it into something that makes sense.
> >>>>> EXPLAIN your understanding.
> >>>>>
> >>>> Since mathematics is just a shorthand language of symbols, it is obvious
> >>>> that anyone who understands mathematics can also translate the meaning
> >>>> of any math into the long form of words. I've never heard Odd do that,
> >>>> have you?
> >>>
> >>> benj,
> >>> Oversimplified nonsense. It is not just a matter of translating
> >>> "F=ma" into "Force equals mass times acceleration". It is the description
> >>> of how such ideas are applied and the precision of the results and
> >>> the elegance of the mathematics that are part of truly understanding
> >>> the physics as it describes the real world. Even that simple F=ma has
> >>> been described in many ways in many books including but not limited
> >>> to physics text books. All those descriptions do not provide the full
> >>> meaning as well as a good understanding of the physics of F=ma.
> >>>
> >>> Enjoy,
> >>>     ed
> >>
> >> You and Odd have no idea of the relationship between mathematics and
> >> science. The "elegance" of math does not create "elegance" in science
> >> except in your fantasy world. Math is precise because it's DEFINED that
> >> way. F=ma is NOT physics. It is mathematics! Describing mathematics in
> >> words is NOT the same thing as describing the physics. Math is only a
> >> MODEL of the reality. You (and Odd) somehow have developed the idea
> >> (along with much of modern post-Einstein science) that math is more real
> >> than reality. It is NOT.
> > 
> > You have totally misunderstood what I said and reached
> > (possibly deliberately) a false and misleading conclusion.
> > 
> >>        What is "acceleration"? It's not even a real
> >> quanity. It is PURE fantasy. What does "times" mean? None of this is
> >> physics. Physics would ask what is a force? What is mass? How do they
> >> seem related. Until you get the physics knowing the math even in words
> >> is meaningless.
> > 
> > Sorry you are close, but no cigar. The mathematics and measurements
> > are the elements that make modern physics. You cannot truly know the
> > physics without at least some knowledge of the mathematics.
> > 
> > Remember Lord Kelvin.
> > ed
> 
> You have misinterpreted what I'm saying (deliberately?). I did not say 
> mathematics was useless in science. However the statement that one can 
> only know physics if one knows mathematics is clearly wrong. 

You need both right Roy Masters...
You don't have either...

Mitchell Raemsch

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#707061

Frombenj <benj.fake@gmail.com>
Date2018-10-10 20:43 -0400
Message-ID<ppm6am$1emn$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#707047
On 10/10/2018 6:14 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 10/10/2018 11:59 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> benj
>>>> “Proof? Odd's proof is he gets out textbooks and thumps them. It's his
>>>> version of bible thumping. What's yours? ”
>>>> ed and Odd are stuck in an epicycle
>>>>
>>>
>>> Just grab any word handy that sounds awful. Lib, epicycle, polyunsaturated.
>>> Something’s gonna stick, right?
>>>
>> Typical Odd. He thinks science is all about political debate. He thinks
>> you do science by arguing about words. He's even worse than the people
>> who think science is all about how complex and indecipherable your
>> mathematics are. Odd doesn't even have mathematics. Just words.
>>
> 
> I don’t find mathematics indecipherable. Maybe you and John do. Maybe you
> think this is somehow unfair, like John does. John wants no science that a
> third grader can’t follow.
> 
I have never heard you explain any of your so-called "science" either in 
words OR math. Einstein said one should be able to explain science to 
anyone. You can't explain your science to anyone who speaks both science 
AND math. YOU just then explain that by saying that THEY are uneducated 
and stupid. What is the flaw in your thinking? John at least understands 
the IDEA behind his theories. yeah, sometimes he's wrong, but at least 
he knows what the idea he had was. You on the other hand have NO ideas. 
You can't explain anything. For you it's all in details and jargon 
you've memorized. You just repeat what others have said without 
understanding a word of it. You are just like a lawyer in a courtroom 
where guilt or innocence does not matter, it's all about one's skill in 
using words to create arguments.

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#707124

Fromporaty149@gmail.com
Date2018-10-11 00:03 -0700
Message-ID<3476aa93-4863-4dd5-b2a0-6852f8c94fab@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#707061
On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 3:43:08 AM UTC+3, benj wrote:
> On 10/10/2018 6:14 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> > benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 10/10/2018 11:59 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >>> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> benj
> >>>> “Proof? Odd's proof is he gets out textbooks and thumps them. It's his
> >>>> version of bible thumping. What's yours? ”
> >>>> ed and Odd are stuck in an epicycle
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Just grab any word handy that sounds awful. Lib, ep 
> >> who think science is all about how complex and indecipherable your
> >> mathematics are. Odd doesn't even have mathematics. Just words.
> >>
> > 
> > I don’t find mathematics indecipherable. Maybe you and John do. Maybe you
> > think this is somehow unfair, like John does. John wants no science that a
> > third grader can’t follow.
> > 
> I have never heard you explain any of your so-called "science" either in 
>  
> where guilt or innocence does not matter, it's all about one's skill in 
> using words to create arguments.
=====================
the fact that you are blockhead parrot 
is not my fault !!
you cant learn something new 
2
what is for instance your big
contributions to innovate anything ??
==
TIA
Y.P
=================

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#707136

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-10-11 12:29 +0000
Message-ID<ppnfmc$1fa6$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#707061
benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/10/2018 6:14 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/10/2018 11:59 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> benj
>>>>> “Proof? Odd's proof is he gets out textbooks and thumps them. It's his
>>>>> version of bible thumping. What's yours? ”
>>>>> ed and Odd are stuck in an epicycle
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Just grab any word handy that sounds awful. Lib, epicycle, polyunsaturated.
>>>> Something’s gonna stick, right?
>>>> 
>>> Typical Odd. He thinks science is all about political debate. He thinks
>>> you do science by arguing about words. He's even worse than the people
>>> who think science is all about how complex and indecipherable your
>>> mathematics are. Odd doesn't even have mathematics. Just words.
>>> 
>> 
>> I don’t find mathematics indecipherable. Maybe you and John do. Maybe you
>> think this is somehow unfair, like John does. John wants no science that a
>> third grader can’t follow.
>> 
> I have never heard you explain any of your so-called "science" either in 
> words OR math. Einstein said one should be able to explain science to 
> anyone. 

To a barmaid. That’s what he said. Then he wrote a book on relativity to
barmaids. It had a tiny bit of math in it. Let’s ask John whether he’s read
or made sense of something written for barmaids. This should tell us
something about John vs barmaids. 

> You can't explain your science to anyone who speaks both science 
> AND math. 

This is a discussion forum. This is not an explanation forum. Discussion is
between people who know something about the subject. It isn’t for someone
who knows something about the subject to explain it to someone who doesn’t.
Now, you say you know something about physics and you speak math.
Wonderful. What would you like to discuss? 

> YOU just then explain that by saying that THEY are uneducated 
> and stupid. What is the flaw in your thinking? John at least understands 
> the IDEA behind his theories. yeah, sometimes he's wrong, but at least 
> he knows what the idea he had was. You on the other hand have NO ideas. 
> You can't explain anything. For you it's all in details and jargon 
> you've memorized. You just repeat what others have said without 
> understanding a word of it. 

Bullshit. I think it’s fine to refer to what others have done. In case you
notice, this is the pattern in science. Now, what would you like to
discuss?

> You are just like a lawyer in a courtroom 
> where guilt or innocence does not matter, it's all about one's skill in 
> using words to create arguments.
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#707188

Frombenj <benj.fake@gmail.com>
Date2018-10-11 12:49 -0400
Message-ID<ppnuuo$cdr$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#707136
On 10/11/2018 8:29 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 10/10/2018 6:14 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>> benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 10/10/2018 11:59 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>>> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> benj
>>>>>> “Proof? Odd's proof is he gets out textbooks and thumps them. It's his
>>>>>> version of bible thumping. What's yours? ”
>>>>>> ed and Odd are stuck in an epicycle
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Just grab any word handy that sounds awful. Lib, epicycle, polyunsaturated.
>>>>> Something’s gonna stick, right?
>>>>>
>>>> Typical Odd. He thinks science is all about political debate. He thinks
>>>> you do science by arguing about words. He's even worse than the people
>>>> who think science is all about how complex and indecipherable your
>>>> mathematics are. Odd doesn't even have mathematics. Just words.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don’t find mathematics indecipherable. Maybe you and John do. Maybe you
>>> think this is somehow unfair, like John does. John wants no science that a
>>> third grader can’t follow.
>>>
>> I have never heard you explain any of your so-called "science" either in
>> words OR math. Einstein said one should be able to explain science to
>> anyone.
> 
> To a barmaid. That’s what he said. Then he wrote a book on relativity to
> barmaids. It had a tiny bit of math in it. Let’s ask John whether he’s read
> or made sense of something written for barmaids. This should tell us
> something about John vs barmaids.
> 
>> You can't explain your science to anyone who speaks both science
>> AND math.
> 
> This is a discussion forum. This is not an explanation forum. Discussion is
> between people who know something about the subject. It isn’t for someone
> who knows something about the subject to explain it to someone who doesn’t.
> Now, you say you know something about physics and you speak math.
> Wonderful. What would you like to discuss?

So you think this is a literature and language discussion? Why can you 
never discuss the IDEAS of science. You obviously have no ideas about 
anything but words and lawyerly persuasion. That's not science.

>> YOU just then explain that by saying that THEY are uneducated
>> and stupid. What is the flaw in your thinking? John at least understands
>> the IDEA behind his theories. yeah, sometimes he's wrong, but at least
>> he knows what the idea he had was. You on the other hand have NO ideas.
>> You can't explain anything. For you it's all in details and jargon
>> you've memorized. You just repeat what others have said without
>> understanding a word of it.
> 
> Bullshit. I think it’s fine to refer to what others have done. In case you
> notice, this is the pattern in science. Now, what would you like to
> discuss?

John puts forth science ideas for discussion. Discussion means a 
discussion of the evidence for or against the idea. To you it's all 
about a a big political debate over the meaning of jargon, what dogma 
your textbooks promote and name-calling in place of actual science. You 
are just a fool and a loser.

>> You are just like a lawyer in a courtroom
>> where guilt or innocence does not matter, it's all about one's skill in
>> using words to create arguments.

I was right about you the above and I say it again.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#707190

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-10-11 16:59 +0000
Message-ID<ppnvi4$dib$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#707188
benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/11/2018 8:29 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/10/2018 6:14 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>> benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/10/2018 11:59 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>>>> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> benj
>>>>>>> “Proof? Odd's proof is he gets out textbooks and thumps them. It's his
>>>>>>> version of bible thumping. What's yours? ”
>>>>>>> ed and Odd are stuck in an epicycle
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just grab any word handy that sounds awful. Lib, epicycle, polyunsaturated.
>>>>>> Something’s gonna stick, right?
>>>>>> 
>>>>> Typical Odd. He thinks science is all about political debate. He thinks
>>>>> you do science by arguing about words. He's even worse than the people
>>>>> who think science is all about how complex and indecipherable your
>>>>> mathematics are. Odd doesn't even have mathematics. Just words.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I don’t find mathematics indecipherable. Maybe you and John do. Maybe you
>>>> think this is somehow unfair, like John does. John wants no science that a
>>>> third grader can’t follow.
>>>> 
>>> I have never heard you explain any of your so-called "science" either in
>>> words OR math. Einstein said one should be able to explain science to
>>> anyone.
>> 
>> To a barmaid. That’s what he said. Then he wrote a book on relativity to
>> barmaids. It had a tiny bit of math in it. Let’s ask John whether he’s read
>> or made sense of something written for barmaids. This should tell us
>> something about John vs barmaids.
>> 
>>> You can't explain your science to anyone who speaks both science
>>> AND math.
>> 
>> This is a discussion forum. This is not an explanation forum. Discussion is
>> between people who know something about the subject. It isn’t for someone
>> who knows something about the subject to explain it to someone who doesn’t.
>> Now, you say you know something about physics and you speak math.
>> Wonderful. What would you like to discuss?
> 
> So you think this is a literature and language discussion? Why can you 
> never discuss the IDEAS of science. You obviously have no ideas about 
> anything but words and lawyerly persuasion. That's not science.

Alright, what IDEA do you want to discuss? 

> 
>>> YOU just then explain that by saying that THEY are uneducated
>>> and stupid. What is the flaw in your thinking? John at least understands
>>> the IDEA behind his theories. yeah, sometimes he's wrong, but at least
>>> he knows what the idea he had was. You on the other hand have NO ideas.
>>> You can't explain anything. For you it's all in details and jargon
>>> you've memorized. You just repeat what others have said without
>>> understanding a word of it.
>> 
>> Bullshit. I think it’s fine to refer to what others have done. In case you
>> notice, this is the pattern in science. Now, what would you like to
>> discuss?
> 
> John puts forth science ideas for discussion. Discussion means a 
> discussion of the evidence for or against the idea. 

Evidence for or against an idea is usually quantitative, not just
qualitative. This would involve calculations. How would you propose to
discuss quantitative tests of ideas without using math? 

So which idea of John’s would you like to discuss? How about discussing
what a fractal is, since he loves that word. 

> To you it's all 
> about a a big political debate over the meaning of jargon, what dogma 
> your textbooks promote and name-calling in place of actual science. You 
> are just a fool and a loser.
> 
>>> You are just like a lawyer in a courtroom
>>> where guilt or innocence does not matter, it's all about one's skill in
>>> using words to create arguments.
> 
> I was right about you the above and I say it again.
> 
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#707345

Fromporaty149@gmail.com
Date2018-10-11 18:23 -0700
Message-ID<b320b27c-6811-4aa2-85ce-085521b00bdd@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#707190
On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 7:59:55 PM UTC+3, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 10/11/2018 8:29 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >> benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On 10/10/2018 6:14 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >>>> benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> On 10/10/2018 11:59 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >>>>>> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> benj
> >>>>>>> “Proof? Odd's proof is he gets out textbooks and thumps them. It's his
> >>>>>>> version of bible thumping. What's yours? ”
> >>>>>>> ed and Odd are stuck in an epicycle
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Just grab any word handy that sounds awful. Lib, epicycle, polyunsaturated.
> >>>>>> Something’s gonna stick, right?
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>> Typical Odd. He thinks science is all about political debate. He thinks
> >>>>> you do science by arguing about words. He's even worse than the people
> >>>>> who think science is all about how complex and indecipherable your
> >>>>> mathematics are. Odd doesn't even have mathematics. Just words.
> >>>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> I don’t find mathematics indecipherable. Maybe you and John do. Maybe you
> >>>> think this is somehow unfair, like John does. John wants no science that a
> >>>> third grader can’t follow.
> >>>> 
> >>> I have never heard you explain any of your so-called "science" either in
> >>> words OR math. Einstein said one should be able to explain science to
> >>> anyone.
> >> 
> >> To a barmaid. That’s what he said. Then he wrote a book on relativity to
> >> barmaids. It had a tiny bit of math in it. Let’s ask John whether he’s read
> >> or made sense of something written for barmaids. This should tell us
> >> something about John vs barmaids.
> >> 
> >>> You can't explain your science to anyone who speaks both science
> >>> AND math.
> >> 
> >> This is a discussion forum. This is not an explanation forum. Discussion is
> >> between people who know something about the subject. It isn’t for someone
> >> who knows something about the subject to explain it to someone who doesn’t.
> >> Now, you say you know something about physics and you speak math.
> >> Wonderful. What would you like to discuss?
> > 
> > So you think this is a literature and language discussion? Why can you 
> > never discuss the IDEAS of science. You obviously have no ideas about 
> > anything but words and lawyerly persuasion. That's not science.
> 
> Alright, what IDEA do you want to discuss? 
> 
> > 
> >>> YOU just then explain that by saying that THEY are uneducated
> >>> and stupid. What is the flaw in your thinking? John at least understands
> >>> the IDEA behind his theories. yeah, sometimes he's wrong, but at least
> >>> he knows what the idea he had was. You on the other hand have NO ideas.
> >>> You can't explain anything. For you it's all in details and jargon
> >>> you've memorized. You just repeat what others have said without
> >>> understanding a word of it.
> >> 
> >> Bullshit. I think it’s fine to refer to what others have done. In case you
> >> notice, this is the pattern in science. Now, what would you like to
> >> discuss?
> > 
> > John puts forth science ideas for discussion. Discussion means a 
> > discussion of the evidence for or against the idea. 
> 
> Evidence for or against an idea is usually quantitative, not just
> qualitative. This would involve calculations. How would you propose to
> discuss quantitative tests of ideas without using math? 
> 
> So which idea of John’s would you like to discuss? How about discussing
> what a fractal is, since he loves that word. 
> 
> > To you it's all 
> > about a a big political debate over the meaning of jargon, what dogma 
> > your textbooks promote and name-calling in place of actual science. You 
> > are just a fool and a loser.
> > 
> >>> You are just like a lawyer in a courtroom
> >>> where guilt or innocence does not matter, it's all about one's skill in
> >>> using words to create arguments.
> > 
> > I was right about you the above and I say it again.
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables
==========================
that crock has no ideas !
the only thing he has in mind is 
how to steal innovations 
andpublishit in his
book publishing business 
==
Y.P
======================== 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#707408

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-10-12 13:27 +0000
Message-ID<ppq7gt$1sln$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#707345
<poraty149@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 7:59:55 PM UTC+3, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/11/2018 8:29 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>> benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/10/2018 6:14 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>>>> benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/10/2018 11:59 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>>>>>> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> benj
>>>>>>>>> Proof? Odd's proof is he gets out textbooks and thumps them. It's his
>>>>>>>>> version of bible thumping. What's yours? 
>>>>>>>>> ed and Odd are stuck in an epicycle
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Just grab any word handy that sounds awful. Lib, epicycle, polyunsaturated.
>>>>>>>> Somethings gonna stick, right?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Typical Odd. He thinks science is all about political debate. He thinks
>>>>>>> you do science by arguing about words. He's even worse than the people
>>>>>>> who think science is all about how complex and indecipherable your
>>>>>>> mathematics are. Odd doesn't even have mathematics. Just words.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I dont find mathematics indecipherable. Maybe you and John do. Maybe you
>>>>>> think this is somehow unfair, like John does. John wants no science that a
>>>>>> third grader cant follow.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> I have never heard you explain any of your so-called "science" either in
>>>>> words OR math. Einstein said one should be able to explain science to
>>>>> anyone.
>>>> 
>>>> To a barmaid. Thats what he said. Then he wrote a book on relativity to
>>>> barmaids. It had a tiny bit of math in it. Lets ask John whether hes read
>>>> or made sense of something written for barmaids. This should tell us
>>>> something about John vs barmaids.
>>>> 
>>>>> You can't explain your science to anyone who speaks both science
>>>>> AND math.
>>>> 
>>>> This is a discussion forum. This is not an explanation forum. Discussion is
>>>> between people who know something about the subject. It isnt for someone
>>>> who knows something about the subject to explain it to someone who doesnt.
>>>> Now, you say you know something about physics and you speak math.
>>>> Wonderful. What would you like to discuss?
>>> 
>>> So you think this is a literature and language discussion? Why can you 
>>> never discuss the IDEAS of science. You obviously have no ideas about 
>>> anything but words and lawyerly persuasion. That's not science.
>> 
>> Alright, what IDEA do you want to discuss? 
>> 
>>> 
>>>>> YOU just then explain that by saying that THEY are uneducated
>>>>> and stupid. What is the flaw in your thinking? John at least understands
>>>>> the IDEA behind his theories. yeah, sometimes he's wrong, but at least
>>>>> he knows what the idea he had was. You on the other hand have NO ideas.
>>>>> You can't explain anything. For you it's all in details and jargon
>>>>> you've memorized. You just repeat what others have said without
>>>>> understanding a word of it.
>>>> 
>>>> Bullshit. I think its fine to refer to what others have done. In case you
>>>> notice, this is the pattern in science. Now, what would you like to
>>>> discuss?
>>> 
>>> John puts forth science ideas for discussion. Discussion means a 
>>> discussion of the evidence for or against the idea. 
>> 
>> Evidence for or against an idea is usually quantitative, not just
>> qualitative. This would involve calculations. How would you propose to
>> discuss quantitative tests of ideas without using math? 
>> 
>> So which idea of Johns would you like to discuss? How about discussing
>> what a fractal is, since he loves that word. 
>> 
>>> To you it's all 
>>> about a a big political debate over the meaning of jargon, what dogma 
>>> your textbooks promote and name-calling in place of actual science. You 
>>> are just a fool and a loser.
>>> 
>>>>> You are just like a lawyer in a courtroom
>>>>> where guilt or innocence does not matter, it's all about one's skill in
>>>>> using words to create arguments.
>>> 
>>> I was right about you the above and I say it again.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Odd Bodkin  Maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> =========================that crock has no ideas !
> the only thing he has in mind is 
> how to steal innovations 
> andpublishit in his
> book publishing business 
> =Y.P
> ======================== 
> 

Wrong guy. I don’t have a book publishing business. 

-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#707426

Fromporaty149@gmail.com
Date2018-10-12 07:39 -0700
Message-ID<c5f1712c-6b8c-4322-8c35-2cb0f76a7e70@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#707408
On Friday, October 12, 2018 at 4:28:03 PM UTC+3, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> <poraty149@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 7:59:55 PM UTC+3, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >> benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On 10/11/2018 8:29 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >>>> benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> On 10/10/2018 6:14 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >>>>>> benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 10/10/2018 11:59 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >>>>>>>> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> benj
> >>>>>>>>>  Proof? Odd's proof is he gets out textbooks and thumps them. It's his
> >>>>>>>>> version of bible thumping. What's yours?  
> >>>>>>>>> ed and Odd are stuck in an epicycle
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> Just grab any word handy that sounds awful. Lib, epicycle, polyunsaturated.
> >>>>>>>> Something s gonna stick, right?
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Typical Odd. He thinks science is all about political debate. He thinks
> >>>>>>> you do science by arguing about words. He's even worse than the people
> >>>>>>> who think science is all about how complex and indecipherable your
> >>>>>>> mathematics are. Odd doesn't even have mathematics. Just words.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
 
>  
> >>> 
> >>> I was right about you the above and I say it again.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> Odd Bodkin   Maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> > =========================that crock has no ideas !
> > the only thing he has in mind is 
> > how to steal innovations 
> > andpublishit in his
> > book publishing business 
> > =Y.P
> > ======================== 
> > 
> 
> Wrong guy. I don’t have a book publishing business. 
 
==========================
nevermind that is not the main issue 
that is in my mind
what is more important to me :
did you understand my logic analysis   
that 
the very fact that there is a lot of movement  movement
is a prove that 
there is a lot of empty space in our universe 
i dont say 
if that empty space is 
i one big ''block  or is 
or  jn tiny pieces  
but still  all accumulating together 
must be  in huge ''end less''' quantities ?
(indeed unprecedented ida- but still.....)
==========================================
TIA
Y.P
======================

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#707448

Frombenj <benj.fake@gmail.com>
Date2018-10-12 12:00 -0400
Message-ID<ppqge8$dd4$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#707408
On 10/12/2018 9:27 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> <poraty149@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 7:59:55 PM UTC+3, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>> benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 10/11/2018 8:29 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>>> benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/10/2018 6:14 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>>>>> benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/10/2018 11:59 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> benj
>>>>>>>>>> Proof? Odd's proof is he gets out textbooks and thumps them. It's his
>>>>>>>>>> version of bible thumping. What's yours? 
>>>>>>>>>> ed and Odd are stuck in an epicycle
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just grab any word handy that sounds awful. Lib, epicycle, polyunsaturated.
>>>>>>>>> Somethings gonna stick, right?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Typical Odd. He thinks science is all about political debate. He thinks
>>>>>>>> you do science by arguing about words. He's even worse than the people
>>>>>>>> who think science is all about how complex and indecipherable your
>>>>>>>> mathematics are. Odd doesn't even have mathematics. Just words.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I dont find mathematics indecipherable. Maybe you and John do. Maybe you
>>>>>>> think this is somehow unfair, like John does. John wants no science that a
>>>>>>> third grader cant follow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have never heard you explain any of your so-called "science" either in
>>>>>> words OR math. Einstein said one should be able to explain science to
>>>>>> anyone.
>>>>>
>>>>> To a barmaid. Thats what he said. Then he wrote a book on relativity to
>>>>> barmaids. It had a tiny bit of math in it. Lets ask John whether hes read
>>>>> or made sense of something written for barmaids. This should tell us
>>>>> something about John vs barmaids.
>>>>>
>>>>>> You can't explain your science to anyone who speaks both science
>>>>>> AND math.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a discussion forum. This is not an explanation forum. Discussion is
>>>>> between people who know something about the subject. It isnt for someone
>>>>> who knows something about the subject to explain it to someone who doesnt.
>>>>> Now, you say you know something about physics and you speak math.
>>>>> Wonderful. What would you like to discuss?
>>>>
>>>> So you think this is a literature and language discussion? Why can you
>>>> never discuss the IDEAS of science. You obviously have no ideas about
>>>> anything but words and lawyerly persuasion. That's not science.
>>>
>>> Alright, what IDEA do you want to discuss?
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> YOU just then explain that by saying that THEY are uneducated
>>>>>> and stupid. What is the flaw in your thinking? John at least understands
>>>>>> the IDEA behind his theories. yeah, sometimes he's wrong, but at least
>>>>>> he knows what the idea he had was. You on the other hand have NO ideas.
>>>>>> You can't explain anything. For you it's all in details and jargon
>>>>>> you've memorized. You just repeat what others have said without
>>>>>> understanding a word of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bullshit. I think its fine to refer to what others have done. In case you
>>>>> notice, this is the pattern in science. Now, what would you like to
>>>>> discuss?
>>>>
>>>> John puts forth science ideas for discussion. Discussion means a
>>>> discussion of the evidence for or against the idea.
>>>
>>> Evidence for or against an idea is usually quantitative, not just
>>> qualitative. This would involve calculations. How would you propose to
>>> discuss quantitative tests of ideas without using math?
>>>
>>> So which idea of Johns would you like to discuss? How about discussing
>>> what a fractal is, since he loves that word.
>>>
>>>> To you it's all
>>>> about a a big political debate over the meaning of jargon, what dogma
>>>> your textbooks promote and name-calling in place of actual science. You
>>>> are just a fool and a loser.
>>>>
>>>>>> You are just like a lawyer in a courtroom
>>>>>> where guilt or innocence does not matter, it's all about one's skill in
>>>>>> using words to create arguments.
>>>>
>>>> I was right about you the above and I say it again.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Odd Bodkin  Maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>> =========================that crock has no ideas !
>> the only thing he has in mind is
>> how to steal innovations
>> andpublishit in his
>> book publishing business
>> =Y.P
>> ========================
>>
> 
> Wrong guy. I don’t have a book publishing business.
> 
He keeps saying this Porat, but it's a lie. Today is a new era where an 
accusation is all we need as proof of guilt. Odd is guilty!

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#707851 — Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid.

FromJeff-Relf.Me @.
Date2018-10-13 22:38 -0700
SubjectEinstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid.
Message-ID<Jeff-Relf.Me@Oct.13--10.38pm.Seattle.2018>
In reply to#707136
Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid.

Whenever you hear an "Einstein" quote you can be pretty sure it's fake. 

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#707863 — Re: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid.

Fromporaty149@gmail.com
Date2018-10-13 23:39 -0700
SubjectRe: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid.
Message-ID<c6c1f4e1-51b9-4249-9240-70cb8086c71a@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#707851
On Sunday, October 14, 2018 at 8:38:57 AM UTC+3, Jeff-Relf.Me wrote:
> Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid.

========================
not exactly!!
about 'curved space''
he was not much more than 
a bar maid !!!!
moreover
IT IS IDIOTIC !!!
---------------------------
SR is right !
E=mc^2
is more than right !!
it is history !!

we should be very selective !!
===================================
TIA
Y.Porat
==================
 
 

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#707899 — Re: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid.

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-10-14 14:45 +0000
SubjectRe: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid.
Message-ID<ppvkqt$921$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#707851
<Jeff-Relf.Me  @.> wrote:
> Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid.
> 
> Whenever you hear an "Einstein" quote you can be pretty sure it's fake. 
> 

Quite right! It was Rutherford who made that comment. 

-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#707903 — Re: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid.

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2018-10-14 08:04 -0700
SubjectRe: Einstein never said you should be able to explain physics to a barmaid.
Message-ID<25e2d2f7-eff7-41cd-979c-2036e7d802a4@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#707899
Odd
“Quite right! It was Rutherford who made that comment. 
”
And none of them thought the electron doesn’t rapidly orbit the nucleus.
One of them, maybe Rutherford, said the electron ‘slows down’ at each end of its orbital, which is exactly what happens with orthogonal, in phase, 1:2 spin.

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