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97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS"

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  97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-02 15:13 +0000
    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-02 23:34 +0800
      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-02 16:57 +0000
      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-10-03 10:33 +0000
        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-10-03 15:36 +0200
          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-03 16:07 +0000
            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-10-03 18:23 +0200
              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-04 07:24 +0000
            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-10-03 19:03 +0200
              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-04 07:24 +0000
          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-03 17:16 +0000
            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-04 02:17 +0800
              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-04 05:24 +1100
                Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-04 02:29 +0800
                  Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-04 02:30 +0800
                    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-04 16:39 +1100
              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2026-10-03 16:15 -0500
              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-04 07:28 +0000
      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-04 02:10 -0700
        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-04 11:38 +0000
    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-03 01:46 +1000
      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Old McDonald <eieio@patch.corn> - 2026-10-02 10:37 -0700
        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-03 16:03 +1000
          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Old McDonald <eieio@patch.corn> - 2026-10-03 00:08 -0700
            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-04 03:51 +1100
    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-10-02 19:31 +0200
      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-03 06:50 +0000
        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-04 05:15 +1100
          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-04 02:25 +0800
            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-10-04 02:46 -0700
              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-04 19:56 +0800
    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Someone <864c855e3d64399dc06fa30ebb75526c2c2e73db7216b16a3d4cf03e8a52ec3b@example.com> - 2026-10-02 18:45 +0000
    Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-03 08:56 +0000
      Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-04 03:57 +1100
        Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-10-03 10:21 -0700
          Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-04 05:00 +1100
            Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" john larkin <jl@htigct.com> - 2026-10-03 14:02 -0700
              Re: 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS" Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-10-04 16:25 +1100

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

#897059 — 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS"

From:
 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260930020329.htm

97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS"
Date:
October 2, 2026
 Source:
University of Cambridge
Summary:
 Mysterious 97-million-year-old magnetic fossils may be the oldest evidence of
 an animal using Earth's magnetic field like a built-in GPS.
 Their sophisticated magnetic structure could have helped an unknown ocean
 creature navigate thousands of kilometers with surprising precision.

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#897061

On 10/2/2026 11:13 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> From:
>   https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260930020329.htm
> 
> 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS"
> Date:
> October 2, 2026
>   Source:
> University of Cambridge
> Summary:
>   Mysterious 97-million-year-old magnetic fossils may be the oldest evidence of
>   an animal using Earth's magnetic field like a built-in GPS.
>   Their sophisticated magnetic structure could have helped an unknown ocean
>   creature navigate thousands of kilometers with surprising precision.

Please forgive me for not knowing enough about the construction of an-
tennae, but I thought Tupandactylus was an obvious and probably older
example.

See picture at

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupandactylus

and the top of the head, filled in, was used to detect electromagnetic
fields, presumably the one belonging to the planet Earth, and fly with
precision over long distances.

You are perfectly validated if you feel like correcting me on this in-
terpretation of the evidence, and when you do, please feel free to sug-
gest a book on antennae construction, both electromechanical, and bio-
logical.



Best wishes, and happy bioelectromagnetism!
-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com
https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social

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#897065

>Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid>wrote:
>>On 10/2/2026 11:13 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> From:
>>   https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260930020329.htm
>> 
>> 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS"
>> Date:
>> October 2, 2026
>>   Source:
>> University of Cambridge
>> Summary:
>>   Mysterious 97-million-year-old magnetic fossils may be the oldest evidence of
>>   an animal using Earth's magnetic field like a built-in GPS.
>>   Their sophisticated magnetic structure could have helped an unknown ocean
>>   creature navigate thousands of kilometers with surprising precision.
>
>Please forgive me for not knowing enough about the construction of an-
>tennae, but I thought Tupandactylus was an obvious and probably older
>example.

Quote from article:
  Known as magnetofossils, the microscopic structures come in shapes resembling
  spearheads, spindles, bullets, and needles.
  Each is no larger than a bacterial cell.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 Scientists believe they have a biological origin, although exactly what
 organism created them and what purpose they served has long remained uncertain.
end quote

A simple very small peace of magnetic iron can work just as well as compass
needle,
Pressure sensors against it (nerve cells) when moving will show what direction
is 'North'
"Antenna' is not limited to 1/4 wavelength radio etc pieces of wire or things
on an insect head.


Birds have similar magnetic sensors

https://dictionary.cambridge.org › dictionary › english › antenna
ANTENNA | English meaning - Cambridge Dictionary
 Antenna can mean either of a pair of long, thin organs on insects' heads,
 or the natural ability to notice things and understand their importance.
 Learn more about antenna with Cambridge Dictionary, including pronunciation,
 collocations and translations.


>See picture at
>
>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupandactylus
>
>and the top of the head, filled in, was used to detect electromagnetic
>fields, presumably the one belonging to the planet Earth, and fly with
>precision over long distances.
>
>You are perfectly validated if you feel like correcting me on this in-
>terpretation of the evidence, and when you do, please feel free to sug-
>gest a book on antennae construction, both electromechanical, and bio-
>logical.

Get and the RSGB radio handbook.
And use google

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#897076

Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>You are perfectly validated if you feel like correcting me on this in-
>terpretation of the evidence, and when you do, please feel free to sug-
>gest a book on antennae construction, both electromechanical, and bio-
>logical.

  (not directly responding to the quoted paragraph, but explaining
  that use of "GPS")

  "GPS" here is a /species-for-genus synecdoche/. This is a type of a
  trope where an instance of a concept is used for the concept, which
  often happens when the instance is more familiar than the concept.

  For example, people use "Kleenex" for any type of facial tissue. In
  the same manner, "GPS" here is anything that helps you find your way.

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#897078

On 10/3/26 12:33, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>> You are perfectly validated if you feel like correcting me on this in-
>> terpretation of the evidence, and when you do, please feel free to sug-
>> gest a book on antennae construction, both electromechanical, and bio-
>> logical.
> 
>    (not directly responding to the quoted paragraph, but explaining
>    that use of "GPS")
> 
>    "GPS" here is a /species-for-genus synecdoche/. This is a type of a
>    trope where an instance of a concept is used for the concept, which
>    often happens when the instance is more familiar than the concept.
> 
>    For example, people use "Kleenex" for any type of facial tissue. In
>    the same manner, "GPS" here is anything that helps you find your way.
> 
> 

So a poor analogy is justified by GPS now being more familiar than an
ordinary compass.

Modern times.

Jeroen Belleman

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#897083

>Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please>wrote:
>>On 10/3/26 12:33, Stefan Ram wrote:
>> Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>>> You are perfectly validated if you feel like correcting me on this in-
>>> terpretation of the evidence, and when you do, please feel free to sug-
>>> gest a book on antennae construction, both electromechanical, and bio-
>>> logical.
>> 
>>    (not directly responding to the quoted paragraph, but explaining
>>    that use of "GPS")
>> 
>>    "GPS" here is a /species-for-genus synecdoche/. This is a type of a
>>    trope where an instance of a concept is used for the concept, which
>>    often happens when the instance is more familiar than the concept.
>> 
>>    For example, people use "Kleenex" for any type of facial tissue. In
>>    the same manner, "GPS" here is anything that helps you find your way.
>> 
>> 
>
>So a poor analogy is justified by GPS now being more familiar than an
>ordinary compass.
>
>Modern times.

Yes and with all the jamming these days?? 
a compass my be better,
Or this:
 https://www.panteltje.nl/pub/davis_sextant_IMG_6556.JPG

I did read US military sailors are now trained to use these:
 https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-news/u-s-navy-resumes-celestial-navigation-training-04042016/

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#897084

Am 03.10.26 um 18:07 schrieb Jan Panteltje:

> Yes and with all the jamming these days??
> a compass my be better,
> Or this:
>   https://www.panteltje.nl/pub/davis_sextant_IMG_6556.JPG
> 
> I did read US military sailors are now trained to use these:
>   https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-news/u-s-navy-resumes-celestial-navigation-training-04042016/

The old Vikings used Iceland spar crystals to identify the
position of the sun even when there was fog.

<  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland_spar  >

cheers, Gerhard

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#897105

>Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>wrote:
>>Am 03.10.26 um 18:07 schrieb Jan Panteltje:
>
>> Yes and with all the jamming these days??
>> a compass my be better,
>> Or this:
>>   https://www.panteltje.nl/pub/davis_sextant_IMG_6556.JPG
>> 
>> I did read US military sailors are now trained to use these:
>>   https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-news/u-s-navy-resumes-celestial-navigation-training-04042016/
>
>The old Vikings used Iceland spar crystals to identify the
>position of the sun even when there was fog.
>
><  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland_spar  >
>
>cheers, Gerhard

Yes, I did read about that.
Navigation is an interesting subject!
In the same literature there is also a lot about who 'discovered' America first,
before Columbus I mean.

I seem to have some good orientation somehow
Even in huge places like America I never had an orientation problem
hiking driving, mountains, oceans, in the wild..
But even in the Netherlands as small kid went far away from home
parents would not believe it until I showed them some evidence
They were just missing me all day, had a small bike.
Same in cities.
Maybe I have a bird GPS?
Bird brain ? No
Or ?
I tried that sextant I have to get familiar with it.
Do not have a boat ATM but who knows?
But that precifellon tramp is killing crews of small boats all the time..
Better stay on land?

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#897087

On 10/3/26 18:07, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please>wrote:
>>> On 10/3/26 12:33, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>> Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>>>> You are perfectly validated if you feel like correcting me on this in-
>>>> terpretation of the evidence, and when you do, please feel free to sug-
>>>> gest a book on antennae construction, both electromechanical, and bio-
>>>> logical.
>>>
>>>     (not directly responding to the quoted paragraph, but explaining
>>>     that use of "GPS")
>>>
>>>     "GPS" here is a /species-for-genus synecdoche/. This is a type of a
>>>     trope where an instance of a concept is used for the concept, which
>>>     often happens when the instance is more familiar than the concept.
>>>
>>>     For example, people use "Kleenex" for any type of facial tissue. In
>>>     the same manner, "GPS" here is anything that helps you find your way.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> So a poor analogy is justified by GPS now being more familiar than an
>> ordinary compass.
>>
>> Modern times.
> 
> Yes and with all the jamming these days??
> a compass my be better,
> Or this:
>   https://www.panteltje.nl/pub/davis_sextant_IMG_6556.JPG
> 
> I did read US military sailors are now trained to use these:
>   https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-news/u-s-navy-resumes-celestial-navigation-training-04042016/
> 


It's kind of funny to see planes over the strait of Hormuz do
impossible things in flightradar24. (It's not so funny that
I have to go there soon.)

Jeroen Belleman

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#897104

>Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please>wrote:
>>On 10/3/26 18:07, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please>wrote:
>>>> On 10/3/26 12:33, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>>> Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>>>>> You are perfectly validated if you feel like correcting me on this in-
>>>>> terpretation of the evidence, and when you do, please feel free to sug-
>>>>> gest a book on antennae construction, both electromechanical, and bio-
>>>>> logical.
>>>>
>>>>     (not directly responding to the quoted paragraph, but explaining
>>>>     that use of "GPS")
>>>>
>>>>     "GPS" here is a /species-for-genus synecdoche/. This is a type of a
>>>>     trope where an instance of a concept is used for the concept, which
>>>>     often happens when the instance is more familiar than the concept.
>>>>
>>>>     For example, people use "Kleenex" for any type of facial tissue. In
>>>>     the same manner, "GPS" here is anything that helps you find your way.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> So a poor analogy is justified by GPS now being more familiar than an
>>> ordinary compass.
>>>
>>> Modern times.
>> 
>> Yes and with all the jamming these days??
>> a compass my be better,
>> Or this:
>>   https://www.panteltje.nl/pub/davis_sextant_IMG_6556.JPG
>> 
>> I did read US military sailors are now trained to use these:
>>   https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-news/u-s-navy-resumes-celestial-navigation-training-04042016/
>> 
>
>
>It's kind of funny to see planes over the strait of Hormuz do
>impossible things in flightradar24. (It's not so funny that
>I have to go there soon.)

Why do you have to go there?
No way to avoid that?

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#897088

Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> posted:

> On 10/3/26 12:33, Stefan Ram wrote:
> > Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> wrote or quoted:
> >> You are perfectly validated if you feel like correcting me on this in-
> >> terpretation of the evidence, and when you do, please feel free to sug-
> >> gest a book on antennae construction, both electromechanical, and bio-
> >> logical.
> > 
> >    (not directly responding to the quoted paragraph, but explaining
> >    that use of "GPS")
> > 
> >    "GPS" here is a /species-for-genus synecdoche/. This is a type of a
> >    trope where an instance of a concept is used for the concept, which
> >    often happens when the instance is more familiar than the concept.
> > 
> >    For example, people use "Kleenex" for any type of facial tissue. In
> >    the same manner, "GPS" here is anything that helps you find your way.
> > 
> > 
> 
> So a poor analogy is justified by GPS now being more familiar than an
> ordinary compass.

Yes, and St*f*n R*m has it exactly the wrong way round. When Kleenex appeared
on the market it was the only facial tissue of that type, and so it was
natural to apply the word to other similar products. On the other hand compasses,
road maps and direction signs existed centuries before Global Positioning
Systems, and there is no on reason earth to transfer the name of a very modern 
device to things that have always been available. So "In the same manner" is
about as wrong as one can be.

-- 
athel

Living in Marseilles for 39 years; mainly in England before that,
with long periods in Singapore, California, Chile and Canada 

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#897092

On 10/4/2026 1:16 AM, athel.cb@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> posted:
> 
>> On 10/3/26 12:33, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>> Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>>>> You are perfectly validated if you feel like correcting me on this in-
>>>> terpretation of the evidence, and when you do, please feel free to sug-
>>>> gest a book on antennae construction, both electromechanical, and bio-
>>>> logical.
>>>
>>>     (not directly responding to the quoted paragraph, but explaining
>>>     that use of "GPS")
>>>
>>>     "GPS" here is a /species-for-genus synecdoche/. This is a type of a
>>>     trope where an instance of a concept is used for the concept, which
>>>     often happens when the instance is more familiar than the concept.
>>>
>>>     For example, people use "Kleenex" for any type of facial tissue. In
>>>     the same manner, "GPS" here is anything that helps you find your way.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> So a poor analogy is justified by GPS now being more familiar than an
>> ordinary compass.
> 
> Yes, and St*f*n R*m has it exactly the wrong way round. When Kleenex appeared
> on the market it was the only facial tissue of that type, and so it was
> natural to apply the word to other similar products. On the other hand compasses,
> road maps and direction signs existed centuries before Global Positioning
> Systems, and there is no on reason earth to transfer the name of a very modern
> device to things that have always been available. So "In the same manner" is
> about as wrong as one can be.
> 

How do you figure that?  If I started to talk about Galileo, wouldn't
you assume I was talking about /Galileo di Vincenzo Bonaiuti de'
Galilei/ rather than the European satellite navigation system?

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_(satellite_navigation_system)

And isn't it perfectly natural to explain it as a G.P.S. equivalent?

Furthermore, does it matter that animals on this planet don't communi-
cate with satellites?  Now I forgot the original phrase, but I'd pre-
fer something like /like a G.P.S. system/ [1] rather than pretend pre-
historic animals actually communicated with our current era satellites.

Don't Russia and China already have their system too?  And for that
matter, doesn't Elon?

It's not like G.P.S. is the only satellite navigation system in the
world.  It's not 1991 anymore.



Best wishes, and happy satellite navigation!


[1] With a redundant /system/, of course, if I remember my expansion of
the acronym correctly.
-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com
https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social

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#897093

On 4/10/2026 5:17 am, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
> On 10/4/2026 1:16 AM, athel.cb@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> posted:
>>
>>> On 10/3/26 12:33, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>>> Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> wrote or 
>>>> quoted:
>>>>> You are perfectly validated if you feel like correcting me on this in-
>>>>> terpretation of the evidence, and when you do, please feel free to 
>>>>> sug-
>>>>> gest a book on antennae construction, both electromechanical, and bio-
>>>>> logical.
>>>>
>>>>     (not directly responding to the quoted paragraph, but explaining
>>>>     that use of "GPS")
>>>>
>>>>     "GPS" here is a /species-for-genus synecdoche/. This is a type of a
>>>>     trope where an instance of a concept is used for the concept, which
>>>>     often happens when the instance is more familiar than the concept.
>>>>
>>>>     For example, people use "Kleenex" for any type of facial tissue. In
>>>>     the same manner, "GPS" here is anything that helps you find your 
>>>> way.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> So a poor analogy is justified by GPS now being more familiar than an
>>> ordinary compass.
>>
>> Yes, and St*f*n R*m has it exactly the wrong way round. When Kleenex 
>> appeared
>> on the market it was the only facial tissue of that type, and so it was
>> natural to apply the word to other similar products. On the other hand 
>> compasses,
>> road maps and direction signs existed centuries before Global Positioning
>> Systems, and there is no on reason earth to transfer the name of a 
>> very modern
>> device to things that have always been available. So "In the same 
>> manner" is
>> about as wrong as one can be.
>>
> 
> How do you figure that?  If I started to talk about Galileo, wouldn't
> you assume I was talking about /Galileo di Vincenzo Bonaiuti de'
> Galilei/ rather than the European satellite navigation system?
> 
>    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_(satellite_navigation_system)
> 
> And isn't it perfectly natural to explain it as a G.P.S. equivalent?
> 
> Furthermore, does it matter that animals on this planet don't communi-
> cate with satellites?  Now I forgot the original phrase, but I'd pre-
> fer something like /like a G.P.S. system/ [1] rather than pretend pre-
> historic animals actually communicated with our current era satellites.
> 
> Don't Russia and China already have their system too?  And for that
> matter, doesn't Elon?
> 
> It's not like G.P.S. is the only satellite navigation system in the
> world.  It's not 1991 anymore.

We aren't talking about which satellite navigation system long-extinct 
organisms used.

We are talking about ancient animals using something like a compass to 
find out which way they were going.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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#897095

On 10/4/2026 2:24 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
> On 4/10/2026 5:17 am, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
>> On 10/4/2026 1:16 AM, athel.cb@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> posted:
>>>
>>>> On 10/3/26 12:33, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>>>> Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> wrote or 
>>>>> quoted:
>>>>>> You are perfectly validated if you feel like correcting me on this 
>>>>>> in-
>>>>>> terpretation of the evidence, and when you do, please feel free to 
>>>>>> sug-
>>>>>> gest a book on antennae construction, both electromechanical, and 
>>>>>> bio-
>>>>>> logical.
>>>>>
>>>>>     (not directly responding to the quoted paragraph, but explaining
>>>>>     that use of "GPS")
>>>>>
>>>>>     "GPS" here is a /species-for-genus synecdoche/. This is a type 
>>>>> of a
>>>>>     trope where an instance of a concept is used for the concept, 
>>>>> which
>>>>>     often happens when the instance is more familiar than the concept.
>>>>>
>>>>>     For example, people use "Kleenex" for any type of facial 
>>>>> tissue. In
>>>>>     the same manner, "GPS" here is anything that helps you find 
>>>>> your way.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So a poor analogy is justified by GPS now being more familiar than an
>>>> ordinary compass.
>>>
>>> Yes, and St*f*n R*m has it exactly the wrong way round. When Kleenex 
>>> appeared
>>> on the market it was the only facial tissue of that type, and so it was
>>> natural to apply the word to other similar products. On the other 
>>> hand compasses,
>>> road maps and direction signs existed centuries before Global 
>>> Positioning
>>> Systems, and there is no on reason earth to transfer the name of a 
>>> very modern
>>> device to things that have always been available. So "In the same 
>>> manner" is
>>> about as wrong as one can be.
>>>
>>
>> How do you figure that?  If I started to talk about Galileo, wouldn't
>> you assume I was talking about /Galileo di Vincenzo Bonaiuti de'
>> Galilei/ rather than the European satellite navigation system?
>>
>>    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_(satellite_navigation_system)
>>
>> And isn't it perfectly natural to explain it as a G.P.S. equivalent?
>>
>> Furthermore, does it matter that animals on this planet don't communi-
>> cate with satellites?  Now I forgot the original phrase, but I'd pre-
>> fer something like /like a G.P.S. system/ [1] rather than pretend pre-
>> historic animals actually communicated with our current era satellites.
>>
>> Don't Russia and China already have their system too?  And for that
>> matter, doesn't Elon?
>>
>> It's not like G.P.S. is the only satellite navigation system in the
>> world.  It's not 1991 anymore.
> 
> We aren't talking about which satellite navigation system long-extinct 
> organisms used.
> 
> We are talking about ancient animals using something like a compass to 
> find out which way they were going.
> 

Well, well, well, please forgive me for poor textual editing.  Let me
correct the previous paragraph.

Now I forgot the original phrase, but I'd prefer something like /like a 
G.P.S. system/ [1] rather than pretend pretend historic animals actually
                                        ^^^^^^^
communicated with our current era satellites.

I fixed it for you.  I was doubling the word for emphasis.
-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com
https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social

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#897096

On 10/4/2026 2:29 AM, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
> Well, well, well, please forgive me for poor textual editing.  Let me
> correct the previous paragraph.
> 
> Now I forgot the original phrase, but I'd prefer something like /like a 
> G.P.S. system/ [1] rather than pretend pretend historic animals actually
>                                         ^^^^^^^
> communicated with our current era satellites.
> 
> I fixed it for you.  I was doubling the word for emphasis.

And it appears my piece of shit Usenet client didn't warn me about a
long line, so let me try again.

Now I forgot the original phrase, but I'd prefer something like /like a
G.P.S. system/ [1] rather than pretend pretend historic animals actually
                                        ^^^^^^^
communicated with our current era satellites.

I fixed it for you.  I was doubling the word for emphasis.
-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com
https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social

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#897103

On 4/10/2026 5:30 am, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
> On 10/4/2026 2:29 AM, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
>> Well, well, well, please forgive me for poor textual editing.  Let me
>> correct the previous paragraph.
>>
>> Now I forgot the original phrase, but I'd prefer something like /like 
>> a G.P.S. system/ [1] rather than pretend pretend historic animals 
>> actually
>>                                         ^^^^^^^
>> communicated with our current era satellites.
>>
>> I fixed it for you.  I was doubling the word for emphasis.
> 
> And it appears my piece of shit Usenet client didn't warn me about a
> long line, so let me try again.
> 
> Now I forgot the original phrase, but I'd prefer something like /like a
> G.P.S. system/ [1] rather than pretend pretend historic animals actually
>                                         ^^^^^^^
> communicated with our current era satellites.
> 
> I fixed it for you.  I was doubling the word for emphasis.

You didn't fix anything. Using something like a compass to relate your 
direction of travel to the local magnetic field is nothing like a global 
positioning system.

Chipping flint arrow heads out of lumps of hard rock may have the same 
basic logic as etching transistors into the surface of a lump of single 
crystal silicon but calling  them both "lithography" which is "writing 
on stone" isn't a helpful observation.

-- 
Bill Sloman, sydney

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#897099

Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson writes:
> And isn't it perfectly natural to explain it as a G.P.S. equivalent?

No.  A compass cannot tell you your position.

It's just typical newsie hyperbole.  Or perhaps they assume that their
readers don't know what a compass is.  Perhaps *they* don't know what a
compass is.
-- 
John Hasler 
john@sugarbit.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

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#897106

>Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid>wrote:
>>On 10/4/2026 1:16 AM, athel.cb@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> posted:
>> 
>>> On 10/3/26 12:33, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>>> Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>>>>> You are perfectly validated if you feel like correcting me on this in-
>>>>> terpretation of the evidence, and when you do, please feel free to sug-
>>>>> gest a book on antennae construction, both electromechanical, and bio-
>>>>> logical.
>>>>
>>>>     (not directly responding to the quoted paragraph, but explaining
>>>>     that use of "GPS")
>>>>
>>>>     "GPS" here is a /species-for-genus synecdoche/. This is a type of a
>>>>     trope where an instance of a concept is used for the concept, which
>>>>     often happens when the instance is more familiar than the concept.
>>>>
>>>>     For example, people use "Kleenex" for any type of facial tissue. In
>>>>     the same manner, "GPS" here is anything that helps you find your way.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> So a poor analogy is justified by GPS now being more familiar than an
>>> ordinary compass.
>> 
>> Yes, and St*f*n R*m has it exactly the wrong way round. When Kleenex appeared
>> on the market it was the only facial tissue of that type, and so it was
>> natural to apply the word to other similar products. On the other hand compasses,
>> road maps and direction signs existed centuries before Global Positioning
>> Systems, and there is no on reason earth to transfer the name of a very modern
>> device to things that have always been available. So "In the same manner" is
>> about as wrong as one can be.
>> 
>
>How do you figure that?  If I started to talk about Galileo, wouldn't
>you assume I was talking about /Galileo di Vincenzo Bonaiuti de'
>Galilei/ rather than the European satellite navigation system?
>
>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_(satellite_navigation_system)
>
>And isn't it perfectly natural to explain it as a G.P.S. equivalent?
>
>Furthermore, does it matter that animals on this planet don't communi-
>cate with satellites?  Now I forgot the original phrase, but I'd pre-
>fer something like /like a G.P.S. system/ [1] rather than pretend pre-
>historic animals actually communicated with our current era satellites.
>
>Don't Russia and China already have their system too?  And for that
>matter, doesn't Elon?
>
>It's not like G.P.S. is the only satellite navigation system in the
>world.  It's not 1991 anymore.
>
>
>
>Best wishes, and happy satellite navigation!

Yes, I have GPS and GLONAS (Russian) here on my desktop too.
 https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/xgpspc/index.html

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#897107

Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
> On 10/2/2026 11:13 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> > From:
> >   https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260930020329.htm
> > 
> > 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS"
> > Date:
> > October 2, 2026
> >   Source:
> > University of Cambridge
> > Summary:
> >   Mysterious 97-million-year-old magnetic fossils may be the oldest evidence of
> >   an animal using Earth's magnetic field like a built-in GPS.
> >   Their sophisticated magnetic structure could have helped an unknown ocean
> >   creature navigate thousands of kilometers with surprising precision.
> 
> Please forgive me for not knowing enough about the construction of an-
> tennae, but I thought Tupandactylus was an obvious and probably older
> example.
> 
> See picture at
> 
>    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupandactylus
> 
> and the top of the head, filled in, was used to detect electromagnetic
> fields, presumably the one belonging to the planet Earth, and fly with
> precision over long distances.
> 
> You are perfectly validated if you feel like correcting me on this in-
> terpretation of the evidence, and when you do, please feel free to sug-
> gest a book on antennae construction, both electromechanical, and bio-
> logical.

Earth has a magnetic field.  Light is an electromagnetic
wave.  There is no such thing as an "electromagnetic
field".

You don't use an antenna to detect a magnetic field.
Something like a compass needle made of iron will do.
Birds use magnetite in their brains.  There are more
complicated 3-axis magnetometers that work
electronically.

I'm not sure from whence the idea that the Tupa's crest
has anything to do with magnetic field detection.  I will
only observe that sciencedaily.com seems to thrive on the
woo-woo side of human thought.  Better clickbait, you
know.

But here's my point:  You can detect the geomagnetic
field in 3 dimensions, sure.  And let's say Tupa and
modern birds both do.  The only information that gives
you is, what direction is the magnetic north/south pole
from here.  It doesn't tell you where you are.  It's not
like a GPS at all, as has been pointed out.  It's just a
compass.  It does not allow birds or dinosaurs to "fly
with precision over long distances"; only to keep flying
in a straight line in a given direction.

Can you get the equivalent information from the sun's
position, knowing the time of day?  Yes.




> Best wishes, and happy bioelectromagnetism!

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#897109

>Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j>wrote:
>>Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
>> On 10/2/2026 11:13 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> > From:
>> >   https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260930020329.htm
>> > 
>> > 97-million-year-old fossils reveal the earliest known animal "GPS"
>> > Date:
>> > October 2, 2026
>> >   Source:
>> > University of Cambridge
>> > Summary:
>> >   Mysterious 97-million-year-old magnetic fossils may be the oldest evidence of
>> >   an animal using Earth's magnetic field like a built-in GPS.
>> >   Their sophisticated magnetic structure could have helped an unknown ocean
>> >   creature navigate thousands of kilometers with surprising precision.
>> 
>> Please forgive me for not knowing enough about the construction of an-
>> tennae, but I thought Tupandactylus was an obvious and probably older
>> example.
>> 
>> See picture at
>> 
>>    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupandactylus
>> 
>> and the top of the head, filled in, was used to detect electromagnetic
>> fields, presumably the one belonging to the planet Earth, and fly with
>> precision over long distances.
>> 
>> You are perfectly validated if you feel like correcting me on this in-
>> terpretation of the evidence, and when you do, please feel free to sug-
>> gest a book on antennae construction, both electromechanical, and bio-
>> logical.
>
>Earth has a magnetic field.  Light is an electromagnetic
>wave.  There is no such thing as an "electromagnetic
>field".
>
>You don't use an antenna to detect a magnetic field.
>Something like a compass needle made of iron will do.
>Birds use magnetite in their brains.  There are more
>complicated 3-axis magnetometers that work
>electronically.
>
>I'm not sure from whence the idea that the Tupa's crest
>has anything to do with magnetic field detection.  I will
>only observe that sciencedaily.com seems to thrive on the
>woo-woo side of human thought.  Better clickbait, you
>know.
>
>But here's my point:  You can detect the geomagnetic
>field in 3 dimensions, sure.  And let's say Tupa and
>modern birds both do.  The only information that gives
>you is, what direction is the magnetic north/south pole
>from here.  It doesn't tell you where you are.  It's not
>like a GPS at all, as has been pointed out.

No, look at he magnetioc curve around earth
 https://duckduckgo.com/?q=magnetic+field+around+earth+picture

The curvature is different when going from the equator towards the poles.
That gives both altitude and position and of course the north south sngle
for a moving 'bird'.

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