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Clear And Present

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  Clear And Present HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 08:17 -0800
    Re: Clear And Present Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 12:54 -0600
      Re: Clear And Present jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-22 19:46 +0000
      Re: Clear And Present jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-23 14:13 +0000
    Re: Clear And Present benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 03:30 -0500
      Re: Clear And Present HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 03:26 -0800
        Re: Clear And Present benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 12:38 -0500
          Re: Clear And Present HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 10:10 -0800
            Re: Clear And Present benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 00:03 -0500
    Re: Clear And Present "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 12:13 -0800
      Re: Clear And Present HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 07:06 -0800
        Re: Clear And Present benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 13:48 -0500
          Re: Clear And Present john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 11:49 -0800
        Re: Clear And Present "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 12:22 -0800
          Re: Clear And Present Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-25 00:46 +0000
            Re: Clear And Present HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 16:52 -0800
              Re: Clear And Present Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-25 01:16 +0000
            Re: Clear And Present "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 15:13 -0800
              Re: Clear And Present Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-25 23:48 +0000
              Re: Clear And Present Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 16:53 -0800
      Re: Clear And Present dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-11-25 16:38 -0500
    Re: Clear And Present Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-24 18:14 +0000
      Re: Clear And Present HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 16:45 -0800
        Re: Clear And Present Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-25 01:05 +0000
          Re: Clear And Present Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 17:55 -0800
        Re: Clear And Present benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 23:42 -0500
      Re: Clear And Present HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 16:50 -0800
        Re: Clear And Present Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-25 01:12 +0000
          Re: Clear And Present HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 05:12 -0800
            Re: Clear And Present john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 05:55 -0800
            Re: Clear And Present Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 05:56 -0800
            Re: Clear And Present benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 11:36 -0500

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#535471

On 11/23/2015 3:13 PM, nuny@bid.nes wrote:
> On Sunday, November 22, 2015 at 8:17:56 AM UTC-8, HVAC wrote:

>> Islam should be deemed to not be a religion, but a terror group.
>
>    Name an organized religion that shouldn't.

Those little girls that sell flowers at the airport.

-- 
dvus

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#535081

[Sorry about being way off topic in the following, but I could not let this 
go uncommented.]

HVAC wrote:

> The US Constitution orders the government to provide for our common
> defense.
> 
> Daesh/ISIS is a clear and present danger to the safety of our country.

So far we are in agreement.
 
> Therefore, I call upon congress to declare war on Daesh and authorize any 
> and all steps necessary to destroy them utterly. Install a general to
> oversee this operation and give him wide latitude to prosecute this war as
> he sees fit with a minimum of micromanagement from the white house.

Wrong newsgroup, stupid.
 
> Civilians will die in this operation. Collateral damage is unfortunate yet
> unavoidable to some extent.

You should be forced to repeat that statement after your children have been 
killed by a bomb while they were on their way to school.

> Also note that we are suffering civilian
> casualties now in France, Mali and NY City.

Which is a tragic loss of health and life for sure.  But how many civilians 
have been injured and killed in Syria already – by the Assad regime, by the 
20+ warring factions, by coalition bombs?  And how many people, among them 
many Muslims, are still fleeing the country, hoping for a better life in the 
so-called civilized world because they cannot see a future for their 
children in Syria, both with so-called Islamic State *and* without?
 
> If we see a group in Mosul celebrating the attacks in Paris and shooting
> their AK47 into the air, why isn't that a legitimate target?

Freedom of speech, as long as the shot does not hit an airplane or a person.  
That is one of the values we hold dear and want to protect, right?  And even 
then it would have to be re-evaluated what that airplane was doing there in 
the first place; had it perhaps violated the airspace of a sovereign country 
without a clear UN mandate (I do not mean the so-called Islamic State here)?

> We need to get real here and drop this pc bullshit. Muslims should be
> profiled at airports, train and bus stations. Muslims should be tracked
> during their day to day activities.

I presume you want them to wear a sign of that somewhere, too.  Perhaps a 
calligraphy in golden threads on their clothes so that it is visible from 
afar?  (Do you see where this is leading?)

> Mosques should be observed for any subversive or terrorist behavior.

Why stop at mosques?  Observe churches and synagogues, too.  And do not stop 
there: you have to begin with terrorist prevention as early as possible – in 
the kindergarten.  Because everyone is a potential terrorist, right?
 
> We must treat Muslims as Nazis.

That is precisely which we must avoid at all costs.  Because that we would 
do what you suggest is exactly what those Islamist terrorists want.  They 
want to force a clash of civilizations and religions where there is none.  
They want to turn people of different world views, that had previously lived 
peacefully together, against each other.

Look, it really is very simple: One does not win a war by doing exactly what 
one’s designated enemy wants.  And the record shows that the so-called “war 
on terror” cannot be won with bombs or in general with military action; that 
way you only create both a power vacuum and new terrorists because in those 
towns most people are not terrorists and have no intention to become them.  

If you knew your history, you would know that the so-called Islamic State 
recruited most of their commanders from Saddam Hussein’s army as they lost 
their jobs when the U.S. and their coalition invaded Iraq.  In effect, the 
U.S. and their allies *created* the so-called Islamic State, by creating a 
power vacuum and allowing extremist thinking to prosper.  Cause and effect.

What do you say to the boy whose mother went to the market and whose father 
went to work, and both were killed by coalition bombs because the market was 
deemed a meeting place for terrorists, and the place of work was an energy 
station deemed a strategic target?  “I am truly sorry about that, but you 
see, collateral damage is unavoidable”?  Violence returns.

If you want to fight terrorism, you must create the conditions that prevent 
the terrorist mindset from appearing attractive to people.  You must help 
people to build and rebuild their lives, that allow them “the pursuit of 
happiness.”  You must help to *build* towns, not to bomb them.
 
> We must marginalize their religion in our country. They must be made to
> feel inferior to normal people because they are.
> 
> You may ask why we should single out Muslims but the answer is obvious.
> 
> "But Harlow, not all Muslims are terrorists!".

You are a master of understatement.  In fact, most Muslims are not 
terrorists the same as most Christians are not terrorists and so on.  Think 
about it.  How many muslims are there?  How many known terrorists?  Most 
muslims are appalled by the actions of the terrorists claimed to be done in 
the name of their religion, and they have said so.

Maximum damage (500+ injured or dead, hoping to turn millions more against 
each other) with minimum effort (8 attackers, a few accomplices) – that is 
what terrorism is about.  If we keep up these knee-jerk reactions, we are 
just playing into the terrorists’ hands.
 
> True, but all terrorists are Muslim

No: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_terrorism#Table_of_non-state_groups_accused_of_terrorism>
 
> Islam should be deemed to not be a religion, but a terror group.

Islamist terrorists have nothing to do with Islam.  Apples and oranges.

Words of wisdom for you:

  “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary 
   Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

    –Benjamin Franklin (1706–1790), polymath (in physics: on electricity);
     among other things, one of the Founding Fathers of the United States,
     6th President of Pennsylvania (1785–1788), and United States Minister
     to France (1778–1785)

Now go away, please.  This is sci.physics, not alt.warmongers.paranoia.


F'up2 set

PointedEars
-- 
I heard that entropy isn't what it used to be.

(from: WolframAlpha)

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#535259

> If we see a group in Mosul celebrating the attacks in Paris and shooting 
> their AK47 into the air, why isn't that a legitimate target? 

Freedom of speech, as long as the shot does not hit an airplane or a person.   
That is one of the values we hold dear and want to protect, right?  And even 
then it would have to be re-evaluated what that airplane was doing there in 
the first place; had it perhaps violated the airspace of a sovereign country 
without a clear UN mandate (I do not mean the so-called Islamic State here
----------

They aren't American citizens therefore no free speech. Especially when they are armed enemy combatants embedding themselves with civilians

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#535263

HVAC wrote:

>> If we see a group in Mosul celebrating the attacks in Paris and shooting
>> their AK47 into the air, why isn't that a legitimate target?
> 
> Freedom of speech, as long as the shot does not hit an airplane or a
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> person.
  ^^^^^^^
> That is one of the values we hold dear and want to protect, right?  And
> even then it would have to be re-evaluated what that airplane was doing
> there in the first place; had it perhaps violated the airspace of a
> sovereign country without a clear UN mandate (I do not mean the so-called
> Islamic State here ----------
> 
> They aren't American citizens therefore no free speech. 

Freedom of speech is a universal *human* right, stupid; not only a U.S. 
American right.

> Especially when they are armed enemy combatants embedding themselves with 
> civilians

You are confusing the issue.  We were talking about people expressing their 
opinion and shooting in the air; nobody was injured or killed in that 
scenario.


F'up2 soc.politics (moderated)

PointedEars
-- 
Q: What did the female magnet say to the male magnet?  
A: From the back, I found you repulsive, but from the front
   I find myself very attracted to you.
(from: WolframAlpha)

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#535269

On Tuesday, November 24, 2015 at 8:05:16 PM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> HVAC wrote:
> 
> >> If we see a group in Mosul celebrating the attacks in Paris and shooting
> >> their AK47 into the air, why isn't that a legitimate target?
> > 
> > Freedom of speech, as long as the shot does not hit an airplane or a
>                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > person.
>   ^^^^^^^
> > That is one of the values we hold dear and want to protect, right?  And
> > even then it would have to be re-evaluated what that airplane was doing
> > there in the first place; had it perhaps violated the airspace of a
> > sovereign country without a clear UN mandate (I do not mean the so-called
> > Islamic State here ----------
> > 
> > They aren't American citizens therefore no free speech. 
> 
> Freedom of speech is a universal *human* right, stupid; not only a U.S. 
> American right.

Heil HVAC is way too stupid to realize that, Thomas. Never try reason
with a rabid barking dog like Heil HVAC is. Never. Or, the only thing
free in USA is speech. Food and water, homes and cars, blah and BLAH,
gas and taxes, climate change and taxes, sex and love, ... costs moolaℎ!

> > Especially when they are armed enemy combatants embedding themselves with 
> > civilians
> 
> You are confusing the issue.  We were talking about people expressing their 
> opinion and shooting in the air; nobody was injured or killed in that 
> scenario.

Heil HVAC is a disaster just waiting to implode. Like Heil Trump's hair.

> F'up2 soc.politics (moderated)
> 
> PointedEars
> -- 
> Q: What did the female magnet say to the male magnet?  
> A: From the back, I found you repulsive, but from the front
>    I find myself very attracted to you.
> (from: WolframAlpha)

-- Mahipal

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#535286

On 11/24/2015 07:45 PM, HVAC wrote:
>> If we see a group in Mosul celebrating the attacks in Paris and shooting
>> their AK47 into the air, why isn't that a legitimate target?
>
> Freedom of speech, as long as the shot does not hit an airplane or a person.
> That is one of the values we hold dear and want to protect, right?  And even
> then it would have to be re-evaluated what that airplane was doing there in
> the first place; had it perhaps violated the airspace of a sovereign country
> without a clear UN mandate (I do not mean the so-called Islamic State here
> ----------
>
> They aren't American citizens therefore no free speech. Especially when they are armed enemy combatants embedding themselves with civilians
>
And especially when they are foreigners and believe in God. HVAC says 
kill them all no matter where they live. Psychos believe in things like 
that.

-- 

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    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#535261

> Mosques should be observed for any subversive or terrorist behavior. 

Why stop at mosques?  Observe churches and synagogues, too.  And do not stop 
there: you have to begin with terrorist prevention as early as possible - in 
the kindergarten.  Because everyone is a potential terrorist, right? 
_---------------_

Just grow up and drop the politically correct bullshit. Islam is the disease. Start profiling these people. They are the problem.
People who think like you are what allowed this problem to fester and spread. It's a disease stupid

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#535264

HVAC wrote:

>> Mosques should be observed for any subversive or terrorist behavior.
> 
> Why stop at mosques?  Observe churches and synagogues, too.  And do not
> stop there: you have to begin with terrorist prevention as early as
> possible - in the kindergarten.  Because everyone is a potential
> terrorist, right?
> _---------------_
> 
> Just grow up and drop the politically correct bullshit. Islam is the
> disease. Start profiling these people. They are the problem. […]

People like you, with puny closed minds, are the problem; the root cause of 
all the problems that we are facing now.  And you are too full of yourself 
to realize that.


PointedEars
-- 
Q: How many theoretical physicists specializing in general relativity
   does it take to change a light bulb?  
A: Two: one to hold the bulb and one to rotate the universe.
(from: WolframAlpha)

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#535319

People like you, with puny closed minds, are the problem; the root cause of 
all the problems that we are facing now.  And you are too full of yourself 
to realize that.
-----------

Starry eyed hippies like you have brought and coddled Muslim terror to Europe.

I don't want more of it here.

Politically correct liberals think they can just wish all of our problems away. Muslim terrorists know this and play you pussies like a violin.

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#535333

How is this very intelligent European
a "starry-eyed hippy"?
You're a freakin Nazi, you with the
"puny mind". He nailed that one,
anyway. HVAC is so full of himself
he has no room left for a mind.
Don't bother replying to him anymore,
NukemBoy- he plonked you a while
back.
You can talk to me, though.
It's my mandate this lifetime to never
write ANYONE off- even you

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#535334

On Wednesday, November 25, 2015 at 8:13:17 AM UTC-5, HVAC wrote:
> People like you, with puny closed minds, are the problem; the root cause of 
> all the problems that we are facing now.  And you are too full of yourself 
> to realize that.
> -----------
> 
> Starry eyed hippies like you have brought and coddled Muslim terror to Europe.

Heil HVAC, you failed to attribute writings properly. Dial CNN! C-SPAN?
 
> I don't want more of it here.

Looking forward to your racist thanks giving inbred party Heil HVAC?

> Politically correct liberals think they can just wish all of our
> problems away. Muslim terrorists know this and play you pussies like
> a violin.

Who makes you Heil HVAC the voice of We The People(s)? O wait... nobody.

Why are there so many Muslims on Planet Earth? They can coexist.

A Einstein feigned playing a violin. You know what Heil HVAC, the
OneStone always looks Iranian/Persian to me, with or without a beard.

-- Mahipal "IPMM: The Old Thanks Giving Turkey Shooting Russian Plane Story."

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#535367

On 11/25/2015 08:12 AM, HVAC wrote:
>
> People like you, with puny closed minds, are the problem; the root cause of
> all the problems that we are facing now.  And you are too full of yourself
> to realize that.
> -----------
>
> Starry eyed hippies like you have brought and coddled Muslim terror to Europe.
>
> I don't want more of it here.
>
> Politically correct liberals think they can just wish all of our problems away. Muslim terrorists know this and play you pussies like a violin.
>
Choosing fantasy over reality seems to work for you?


-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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