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Re: Clear And Present

Followups directed to: alt.1d

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[Sorry about being way off topic in the following, but I could not let this 
go uncommented.]

HVAC wrote:

> The US Constitution orders the government to provide for our common
> defense.
> 
> Daesh/ISIS is a clear and present danger to the safety of our country.

So far we are in agreement.
 
> Therefore, I call upon congress to declare war on Daesh and authorize any 
> and all steps necessary to destroy them utterly. Install a general to
> oversee this operation and give him wide latitude to prosecute this war as
> he sees fit with a minimum of micromanagement from the white house.

Wrong newsgroup, stupid.
 
> Civilians will die in this operation. Collateral damage is unfortunate yet
> unavoidable to some extent.

You should be forced to repeat that statement after your children have been 
killed by a bomb while they were on their way to school.

> Also note that we are suffering civilian
> casualties now in France, Mali and NY City.

Which is a tragic loss of health and life for sure.  But how many civilians 
have been injured and killed in Syria already – by the Assad regime, by the 
20+ warring factions, by coalition bombs?  And how many people, among them 
many Muslims, are still fleeing the country, hoping for a better life in the 
so-called civilized world because they cannot see a future for their 
children in Syria, both with so-called Islamic State *and* without?
 
> If we see a group in Mosul celebrating the attacks in Paris and shooting
> their AK47 into the air, why isn't that a legitimate target?

Freedom of speech, as long as the shot does not hit an airplane or a person.  
That is one of the values we hold dear and want to protect, right?  And even 
then it would have to be re-evaluated what that airplane was doing there in 
the first place; had it perhaps violated the airspace of a sovereign country 
without a clear UN mandate (I do not mean the so-called Islamic State here)?

> We need to get real here and drop this pc bullshit. Muslims should be
> profiled at airports, train and bus stations. Muslims should be tracked
> during their day to day activities.

I presume you want them to wear a sign of that somewhere, too.  Perhaps a 
calligraphy in golden threads on their clothes so that it is visible from 
afar?  (Do you see where this is leading?)

> Mosques should be observed for any subversive or terrorist behavior.

Why stop at mosques?  Observe churches and synagogues, too.  And do not stop 
there: you have to begin with terrorist prevention as early as possible – in 
the kindergarten.  Because everyone is a potential terrorist, right?
 
> We must treat Muslims as Nazis.

That is precisely which we must avoid at all costs.  Because that we would 
do what you suggest is exactly what those Islamist terrorists want.  They 
want to force a clash of civilizations and religions where there is none.  
They want to turn people of different world views, that had previously lived 
peacefully together, against each other.

Look, it really is very simple: One does not win a war by doing exactly what 
one’s designated enemy wants.  And the record shows that the so-called “war 
on terror” cannot be won with bombs or in general with military action; that 
way you only create both a power vacuum and new terrorists because in those 
towns most people are not terrorists and have no intention to become them.  

If you knew your history, you would know that the so-called Islamic State 
recruited most of their commanders from Saddam Hussein’s army as they lost 
their jobs when the U.S. and their coalition invaded Iraq.  In effect, the 
U.S. and their allies *created* the so-called Islamic State, by creating a 
power vacuum and allowing extremist thinking to prosper.  Cause and effect.

What do you say to the boy whose mother went to the market and whose father 
went to work, and both were killed by coalition bombs because the market was 
deemed a meeting place for terrorists, and the place of work was an energy 
station deemed a strategic target?  “I am truly sorry about that, but you 
see, collateral damage is unavoidable”?  Violence returns.

If you want to fight terrorism, you must create the conditions that prevent 
the terrorist mindset from appearing attractive to people.  You must help 
people to build and rebuild their lives, that allow them “the pursuit of 
happiness.”  You must help to *build* towns, not to bomb them.
 
> We must marginalize their religion in our country. They must be made to
> feel inferior to normal people because they are.
> 
> You may ask why we should single out Muslims but the answer is obvious.
> 
> "But Harlow, not all Muslims are terrorists!".

You are a master of understatement.  In fact, most Muslims are not 
terrorists the same as most Christians are not terrorists and so on.  Think 
about it.  How many muslims are there?  How many known terrorists?  Most 
muslims are appalled by the actions of the terrorists claimed to be done in 
the name of their religion, and they have said so.

Maximum damage (500+ injured or dead, hoping to turn millions more against 
each other) with minimum effort (8 attackers, a few accomplices) – that is 
what terrorism is about.  If we keep up these knee-jerk reactions, we are 
just playing into the terrorists’ hands.
 
> True, but all terrorists are Muslim

No: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_terrorism#Table_of_non-state_groups_accused_of_terrorism>
 
> Islam should be deemed to not be a religion, but a terror group.

Islamist terrorists have nothing to do with Islam.  Apples and oranges.

Words of wisdom for you:

  “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary 
   Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

    –Benjamin Franklin (1706–1790), polymath (in physics: on electricity);
     among other things, one of the Founding Fathers of the United States,
     6th President of Pennsylvania (1785–1788), and United States Minister
     to France (1778–1785)

Now go away, please.  This is sci.physics, not alt.warmongers.paranoia.


F'up2 set

PointedEars
-- 
I heard that entropy isn't what it used to be.

(from: WolframAlpha)

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Clear And Present HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 08:17 -0800
  Re: Clear And Present Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 12:54 -0600
    Re: Clear And Present jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-22 19:46 +0000
    Re: Clear And Present jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-23 14:13 +0000
  Re: Clear And Present benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 03:30 -0500
    Re: Clear And Present HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 03:26 -0800
      Re: Clear And Present benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 12:38 -0500
        Re: Clear And Present HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 10:10 -0800
          Re: Clear And Present benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 00:03 -0500
  Re: Clear And Present "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 12:13 -0800
    Re: Clear And Present HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 07:06 -0800
      Re: Clear And Present benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 13:48 -0500
        Re: Clear And Present john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 11:49 -0800
      Re: Clear And Present "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 12:22 -0800
        Re: Clear And Present Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-25 00:46 +0000
          Re: Clear And Present HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 16:52 -0800
            Re: Clear And Present Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-25 01:16 +0000
          Re: Clear And Present "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 15:13 -0800
            Re: Clear And Present Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-25 23:48 +0000
            Re: Clear And Present Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 16:53 -0800
    Re: Clear And Present dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-11-25 16:38 -0500
  Re: Clear And Present Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-24 18:14 +0000
    Re: Clear And Present HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 16:45 -0800
      Re: Clear And Present Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-25 01:05 +0000
        Re: Clear And Present Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 17:55 -0800
      Re: Clear And Present benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 23:42 -0500
    Re: Clear And Present HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 16:50 -0800
      Re: Clear And Present Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-25 01:12 +0000
        Re: Clear And Present HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 05:12 -0800
          Re: Clear And Present john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 05:55 -0800
          Re: Clear And Present Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 05:56 -0800
          Re: Clear And Present benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 11:36 -0500

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