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Groups > sci.physics > #534295 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2015-11-20 17:45 -0600 |
| Last post | 2015-12-02 23:04 -0800 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 144 — 20 participants |
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Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 17:45 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 16:09 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 20:51 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 22:02 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-20 23:48 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 10:27 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 05:13 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 12:57 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 13:44 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 20:01 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 14:17 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 20:01 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 14:22 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 11:18 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 14:26 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 11:33 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 16:32 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-11-21 12:01 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 12:24 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 12:54 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 16:36 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-11-21 13:43 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 13:57 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-11-21 15:26 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2015-11-21 23:01 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 17:07 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-11-21 15:27 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 15:58 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-11-21 17:16 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 17:32 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 00:58 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-21 23:27 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 08:40 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 08:01 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-22 12:45 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 00:47 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 16:43 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 08:05 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Jack Monaco <jacksh@umbertopal.org> - 2015-11-21 14:18 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 13:48 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-23 10:21 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-23 17:34 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 08:44 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 13:02 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-23 11:31 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 15:54 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-23 13:43 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 16:49 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-23 16:17 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 13:54 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-11-24 16:52 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-24 22:24 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-11-21 06:43 -0500
Re: There's nothing special about the start of "the big bang". benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 13:45 -0500
Re: There's nothing special about the start of "the big bang". "Notroll2015" <notroll2015@charter.net> - 2015-11-21 12:51 -0600
Re: There's nothing special about the start of "the big bang". Edward Stansfield <stansfield5REM6@linuxmail.org> - 2015-11-21 14:11 -0500
Re: There's nothing special about the start of "the big bang". benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 16:51 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 11:27 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 16:42 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 17:01 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-21 21:16 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Gatuzo <Gatuzo@gallaxial.com> - 2015-11-22 00:23 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 01:20 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 01:18 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 08:06 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 06:36 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 00:54 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-21 20:37 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-21 21:06 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-22 11:43 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 09:01 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-22 14:59 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-22 14:02 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 16:32 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-22 22:52 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-23 10:51 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-11-24 17:07 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-24 22:48 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-24 21:47 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-25 10:32 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 09:47 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-25 23:31 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 21:36 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-26 14:22 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-26 14:27 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-26 17:34 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-01 21:52 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-25 09:59 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 11:16 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 08:40 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-25 11:02 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Jack Monaco <jacksh@umbBertopal.org> - 2015-11-25 17:37 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-25 18:47 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Jack Monaco <jacksh@umbBertopal.org> - 2015-11-25 18:11 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 10:06 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 14:04 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-25 17:50 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 10:01 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 14:05 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 12:42 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 13:18 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-12-01 22:16 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 08:31 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-02 08:11 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 10:21 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 09:23 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-02 10:19 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 16:35 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 14:51 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 17:30 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-02 18:16 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 20:23 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-02 21:23 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-02 21:31 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-03 09:25 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-03 12:03 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-03 14:50 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-03 16:43 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-12-03 17:12 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-03 17:35 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-03 19:36 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-03 22:40 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-03 23:10 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-04 07:45 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-04 13:13 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-04 21:31 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-12-04 23:17 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-05 00:04 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-12-05 17:28 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-05 23:14 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-05 12:14 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-05 18:08 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-06 17:50 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-06 20:04 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-04 07:39 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-12-04 15:09 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-07 21:50 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-03 19:33 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-12-04 10:34 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-04 13:26 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-12-04 14:49 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-03 09:21 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-12-02 22:01 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-02 23:04 -0800
Page 4 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 Next page →
| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-21 21:16 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <56514FCA.111C@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #534473 |
HVAC wrote: > > benj > - show quoted text - > The idea that the universe is infinite and follows your mathematical > fantasies is quite wrong. Mathematics is not more real than reality. In > fact, it isn't real at all! > ============ > > Yet BJ believes in god. Tell the group, BJ. How long has your god been around? Since infinity can't be the correct answer since you insist it doesn't exist, how long exactly has your god been in the picture? > > Feel free to dodge the question God existed before the earth and the universe was created...so I would say a pretty long time. Maybe a day before that...
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Gatuzo <Gatuzo@gallaxial.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-22 00:23 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <56515151$1_1@mccarragher.org> |
| In reply to | #534493 |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 11/22/2015 12:16 AM, The Starmaker wrote: > HVAC wrote: >> >> benj - show quoted text - The idea that the universe is infinite >> and follows your mathematical fantasies is quite wrong. >> Mathematics is not more real than reality. In fact, it isn't real >> at all! ============ >> >> Yet BJ believes in god. Tell the group, BJ. How long has your god >> been around? Since infinity can't be the correct answer since you insist it doesn't exist, how long exactly has your god been in the picture? >> >> Feel free to dodge the question > > > God existed before the earth and the universe was created...so I > would say a pretty long time. the center of the universe is in Your Head and heart !!! No where ELSE -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJWUVFRAAoJEMxllEuAWAmCY9oIALOJVaXDirmFJ4SW3yealhfh OIwHZk+4rvWGfqcn5iqo+LvBuoZZ7MrgALcUfXQnUxW+AfKiOLFBWi2fi+T9APCK hkEWXS27M6RAa+crKqJZlyY3S0vSZpB8Jj+JXkzxnO6G3E3dwlP00ag5Ka5E/mFF dJolh85Nrbctj3xTlUhVHzEbN7lEqFVbGy1xWmYlosMrSnz/zs6gUSSdBMBe47O1 d5IH1RBY3CtrNiV/eeTYn+yG0GsndKYzrDlLuxQQj4Ld+H4+YJfazkmjIHRcHkPZ md7lgPhp/iqmpkgGM2IrEgO6bSqdeV/7VHeLELu0aC0QxBbEcN5cyPVsCuhg0EY= =Gpi1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | benj <none@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-22 01:20 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <m8d4y.136667$zj3.93251@fx05.iad> |
| In reply to | #534495 |
On 11/22/2015 12:23 AM, Gatuzo wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On 11/22/2015 12:16 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
>> HVAC wrote:
>>>
>>> benj - show quoted text - The idea that the universe is infinite
>>> and follows your mathematical fantasies is quite wrong.
>>> Mathematics is not more real than reality. In fact, it isn't real
>>> at all! ============
>>>
>>> Yet BJ believes in god. Tell the group, BJ. How long has your god
>>> been around?
>
> Since infinity can't be the correct answer since you insist it
> doesn't exist,
>
> how long exactly has your god been in the picture?
>>>
>>> Feel free to dodge the question
>>
>>
>> God existed before the earth and the universe was created...so I
>> would say a pretty long time.
>
>
> the center of the universe is in Your Head and heart !!! No where ELSE
Oh terrific. First we have people trying to find the center of the
universe using math fantasy and then you take it up yet one more notch!
I had a MRI scan of my head and they found nothing! Just ask HVAC!
--
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/:/\:\ \ /:/\:\ \ /:|:| | ___ /::\__\
/::\~\:\__\ /::\~\:\ \ /:/|:| |__ /\ /:/\/__/
/:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/ /
\:\~\:\/:/ / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/ / \::/ /
\:\ \::/ / \:\ \:\__\ |:/:/ / \/__/
\:\/:/ / \:\ \/__/ |::/ /
\::/__/ \:\__\ /:/ /
~~ \/__/ \/__/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | benj <none@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-22 01:18 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <v6d4y.136666$zj3.24758@fx05.iad> |
| In reply to | #534493 |
On 11/22/2015 12:16 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
> HVAC wrote:
>>
>> benj
>> - show quoted text -
>> The idea that the universe is infinite and follows your mathematical
>> fantasies is quite wrong. Mathematics is not more real than reality. In
>> fact, it isn't real at all!
>> ============
>>
>> Yet BJ believes in god. Tell the group, BJ. How long has your god been around? Since infinity can't be the correct answer since you insist it doesn't exist, how long exactly has your god been in the picture?
>>
>> Feel free to dodge the question
>
>
> God existed before the earth and the universe was created...so I would
> say a pretty long time.
>
>
> Maybe a day before that...
>
Oh great! Starfaker and H&V trying to discuss science and mold it to
their religion! This is going to be rich!
Guys, God is OUTSIDE of time. You questions and comments are ignorant
beyond comprehension! Time is how YOU view your life. God (as Rolf has
pointed out) sees the whole video file at once.
--
___ ___ ___ ___
/\ \ /\ \ /\__\ /\ \
/::\ \ /::\ \ /::| | \:\ \
/:/\:\ \ /:/\:\ \ /:|:| | ___ /::\__\
/::\~\:\__\ /::\~\:\ \ /:/|:| |__ /\ /:/\/__/
/:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/ /
\:\~\:\/:/ / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/ / \::/ /
\:\ \::/ / \:\ \:\__\ |:/:/ / \/__/
\:\/:/ / \:\ \/__/ |::/ /
\::/__/ \:\__\ /:/ /
~~ \/__/ \/__/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-22 08:06 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <BNudnfOeUcJTVszLnZ2dnUU7-a0AAAAA@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #534493 |
On 11/21/15 11:16 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> God existed before the earth and the universe was created
Historical evidence of a God came about six thousand years ago.
There is no scientific evidence for any deities.
There is excellent evidence that the observable universe came
into being about 13.72 billion years ago.
No Center
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/nocenter.html
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/infpoint.html
Also see Ned Wright's Cosmology Tutorial
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmolog.htm
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/CosmoCalc.html
WMAP: Foundations of the Big Bang theory
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni.html
WMAP: Tests of Big Bang Cosmology
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest.html
--
sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.
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| From | HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-22 06:36 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <c12feb8b-cd24-4bff-8139-30079809ea53@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #534493 |
God existed before the earth and the universe was created...so I would say a pretty long time ------ The universe wasn't created so you proceed from a false assumption. When one proceeds from a false assumption, everything that follows is garbage. See BJ, Bert, and John the pedophile as examples
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| From | benj <none@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-22 00:54 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <qMc4y.155774$sK.78382@fx14.iad> |
| In reply to | #534473 |
On 11/21/2015 08:01 PM, HVAC wrote:
> benj
> - show quoted text -
> The idea that the universe is infinite and follows your mathematical
> fantasies is quite wrong. Mathematics is not more real than reality. In
> fact, it isn't real at all!
> ============
>
>
> Yet BJ believes in god. Tell the group, BJ. How long has your god been around? Since infinity can't be the correct answer since you insist it doesn't exist, how long exactly has your god been in the picture?
>
> Feel free to dodge the question
>
Science is not about belief, H&V. Religion is about faith. Tell everyone
about your great faith in understanding what everyone else is supposed
to believe. Tell them how your atheist religion gives you these
superpowers.
"Infinity" is fantasy, just like all your religious beliefs.
The only thing you can point to proving that something infinite actually
exists is your own ignorance. Truly infinite!
--
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/::\~\:\__\ /::\~\:\ \ /:/|:| |__ /\ /:/\/__/
/:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/ /
\:\~\:\/:/ / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/ / \::/ /
\:\ \::/ / \:\ \:\__\ |:/:/ / \/__/
\:\/:/ / \:\ \/__/ |::/ /
\::/__/ \:\__\ /:/ /
~~ \/__/ \/__/
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| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-21 20:37 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <7282239.IrQLivXU8X@PointedEars.de> |
| In reply to | #534344 |
dvus wrote: > On 11/20/2015 6:45 PM, Sam Wormley wrote: >>> On 2/8/15 3:44 PM, The Starmaker wrote: >>> Where is the center of the universe? >> >> No Center >> http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/nocenter.html >> http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/infpoint.html >> […] > I'm having a hard time with this. You are not alone. But that does not mean that it cannot be true. > If there is no "center" of the Universe then it would seem that it would > have to be infinite in size. No. <https://youtu.be/-EilZ4VY5Vs?t=545> > Yet we are told the BB happened just under 13.75 light-years ago. Whoever told you this has no clue what they are talking about, although it is very likely that you did not listen carefully. The current best fit of the age of the universe, by the Planck collaboration in 2013, and even when combined with WMAP results, is ca. 1.38 × 10¹⁰ (13.8 _billion_, short scale) _years_. [Light-years is a unit of length, not of time. The current size (diameter) of the *observable* universe is ca. 9.3 × 10¹⁰ (93 billion) light-years. For yet unexplained reasons the expansion speed of the universe has been and still is increasing.] > How could it be infinite if it originated a finite time ago? Ex falso quodlibet. However, nobody said that the universe was infinite in size. > Additionally, I have read numerous articles that purport that > cosmologists are now able to see galaxies that formed a short time after > the BB. What you have read is correct. > What will they see when they are able to see beyond those earliest > galaxies? They are not going to be able to see beyond. A hot plasma is opaque to electromagnetic radiation. However, if other ways of observation are found (like gravitational waves), then current knowledge (quantum mechanics) suggests that no events that happened before the Planck epoch can be observed. There was no time yet then. > Also, I constantly see diagrams supposedly of the entire Universe shaped > kind of like a football. Where? > (why it isn't round I don't know) Nobody knows why, but we are sure that it is not round like a ball. If it were round like a ball, i.e. closed, large triangles like those to the CMB would not have an inner angle sum of approximately 180°. See the surface of Earth for an example of a closed space: a proper triangle from a pole to the equator, then along the equator and back to the same pole always has an inner angle sum that is greater than 180° as you already have two right hangles (90°) at the equator. <https://youtu.be/-EilZ4VY5Vs?t=1935> (I can highly recommend the entire talk.) > Those diagrams don't indicate the Universe is infinite or they would have > to be be infinitely big. Good. > Then I read about theories of the "multiverse" composed of many bubble > Universes surrounding ours. How can you surround an infinite Universe? Again, nobody except you said that the universe were infinite in size. The size of the universe still is an open question. > I try to read everything I can get my hands on about this subject […] Try harder. A simple Google search returns a lot of pertinent information, and Wikipedia has a lot of good articles on the subject. Please stop crossposting without Followup-To set, and start posting using your real name. F'up2 sci.physics.relativity PointedEars -- Q: Where are offenders sentenced for light crimes? A: To a prism. (from: WolframAlpha)
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-21 21:06 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <56514D4C.2C55@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #534407 |
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: > > dvus wrote: > > > On 11/20/2015 6:45 PM, Sam Wormley wrote: > >>> On 2/8/15 3:44 PM, The Starmaker wrote: > >>> Where is the center of the universe? > >> > >> No Center > >> http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/nocenter.html > >> http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/infpoint.html > >> […] > > I'm having a hard time with this. > > You are not alone. But that does not mean that it cannot be true. > > > If there is no "center" of the Universe then it would seem that it would > > have to be infinite in size. > > No. <https://youtu.be/-EilZ4VY5Vs?t=545> > > > Yet we are told the BB happened just under 13.75 light-years ago. > > Whoever told you this has no clue what they are talking about, although it > is very likely that you did not listen carefully. > > The current best fit of the age of the universe, by the Planck collaboration > in 2013, and even when combined with WMAP results, is ca. 1.38 × 10¹Ⱐ(13.8 > _billion_, short scale) _years_. [Light-years is a unit of length, not of > time. The current size (diameter) of the *observable* universe is ca. > 9.3 × 10¹Ⱐ(93 billion) light-years. For yet unexplained reasons the > expansion speed of the universe has been and still is increasing.] > > > How could it be infinite if it originated a finite time ago? > > Ex falso quodlibet. However, nobody said that the universe was infinite in > size. > > > Additionally, I have read numerous articles that purport that > > cosmologists are now able to see galaxies that formed a short time after > > the BB. > > What you have read is correct. > > > What will they see when they are able to see beyond those earliest > > galaxies? > > They are not going to be able to see beyond. A hot plasma is opaque to > electromagnetic radiation. However, if other ways of observation are found > (like gravitational waves), then current knowledge (quantum mechanics) > suggests that no events that happened before the Planck epoch can be > observed. There was no time yet then. > > > Also, I constantly see diagrams supposedly of the entire Universe shaped > > kind of like a football. > > Where? > > > (why it isn't round I don't know) > > Nobody knows why, but we are sure that it is not round like a ball. If it > were round like a ball, i.e. closed, large triangles like those to the CMB > would not have an inner angle sum of approximately 180°. See the surface of > Earth for an example of a closed space: a proper triangle from a pole to the > equator, then along the equator and back to the same pole always has an > inner angle sum that is greater than 180° as you already have two right > hangles (90°) at the equator. > > <https://youtu.be/-EilZ4VY5Vs?t=1935> > > (I can highly recommend the entire talk.) > > > Those diagrams don't indicate the Universe is infinite or they would have > > to be be infinitely big. > > Good. > > > Then I read about theories of the "multiverse" composed of many bubble > > Universes surrounding ours. How can you surround an infinite Universe? > > Again, nobody except you said that the universe were infinite in size. > The size of the universe still is an open question. > > > I try to read everything I can get my hands on about this subject […] > > Try harder. A simple Google search returns a lot of pertinent information, > and Wikipedia has a lot of good articles on the subject. > > Please stop crossposting without Followup-To set, and start posting using > your real name. What if his real name is PointedLips? > > F'up2 sci.physics.relativity > > PointedEars > -- > Q: Where are offenders sentenced for light crimes? > A: To a prism. > > (from: WolframAlpha) Do you actually believe God can create a universe where he cannot see the edge?
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| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-22 11:43 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1575883.hO03p7YKxy@PointedEars.de> |
| In reply to | #534492 |
The Starmaker wrote: > Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: >> Please stop crossposting without Followup-To set, and start posting using >> your real name. > > What if his real name is PointedLips? Then he must have had really cruel parents. Which part of “stop crossposting without Followup-To set” did you not understand, again crossposting without Followup-To across three newsgroups? > Do you actually believe God can create a universe where he cannot see the > edge? Your logic is flawed: It presupposes that there is a God, that they created the universe, and that their perception would be like that of humans. That way lies madness, not science. F'up2 alt.religion. PointedEars -- Q: Where are offenders sentenced for light crimes? A: To a prism. (from: WolframAlpha)
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| From | benj <none@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-22 09:01 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <YUj4y.221339$rR1.114869@fx19.iad> |
| In reply to | #534525 |
On 11/22/2015 06:43 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> The Starmaker wrote:
>
>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> Please stop crossposting without Followup-To set, and start posting using
>>> your real name.
>>
>> What if his real name is PointedLips?
>
> Then he must have had really cruel parents.
>
> Which part of “stop crossposting without Followup-To set” did you not
> understand, again crossposting without Followup-To across three newsgroups?
If you wish to act as moderator of this group you must first get
permission from HVAC. I trust it never occurred to you that it might be
useful to have a interdisciplinary discussion of these issues?
Like most people who think math is reality, you much overestimate your
own value. We are not impressed with your arrogance.
>> Do you actually believe God can create a universe where he cannot see the
>> edge?
>
> Your logic is flawed: It presupposes that there is a God, that they created
> the universe, and that their perception would be like that of humans. That
> way lies madness, not science. F'up2 alt.religion.
Since we can define "God" as the entire universe, everything in it and
that laws that govern it, that means that even you following your
atheist religion can merely substitute "random chance" for "God". (Even
though Rolf will tell you nothing "random" or "chance" exists.
Perhaps if you left your tower of total mathematical fantasy for a while
and joined us in the real world you might learn something.
Followups restored to group discussion (Yes, Starfaker is a moron, but
so are you)
> PointedEars
>
--
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/::\~\:\__\ /::\~\:\ \ /:/|:| |__ /\ /:/\/__/
/:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/ /
\:\~\:\/:/ / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/ / \::/ /
\:\ \::/ / \:\ \:\__\ |:/:/ / \/__/
\:\/:/ / \:\ \/__/ |::/ /
\::/__/ \:\__\ /:/ /
~~ \/__/ \/__/
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| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-22 14:59 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <9790330.MirifmqdhJ@PointedEars.de> |
| In reply to | #534542 |
benj wrote: > On 11/22/2015 06:43 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: >> Which part of “stop crossposting without Followup-To set” did you not >> understand, again crossposting without Followup-To across three >> newsgroups? > > If you wish to act as moderator of this group Iff I wished. I do not. It was a request made, by an ordinary netizen so to speak, to further avoid making newsgroups less usable. > you must first get permission from HVAC. No, I do not need to do that. How did you get that idea? None of the newsgroups that I had to crosspost to (because others did, and there were no more than three newsgroups) or set Followup-To is moderated (the newsgroup Followup-To was set to would be irrelevant anyway; it is the person following the Followup-To that would be responsible for adhering to a moderated newsgroup’s rules). And I seriously doubt that a newsgroup moderator could get elected without a real name; “HVAC” is not a real name. > I trust it never occurred to you that it might be > useful to have a interdisciplinary discussion of these issues? It can be useful, however then the *appropriate* newsgroups should be included, like one on philosophy and one on religion, and Followup-To should be set to the newsgroup that fits the subject of the discussion best. The question what a hypothetical being called “God” could or could not see has nothing to do with science, nothing with either astronomy or physics. Yet, it was crossposted to alt.astronomy, sci.physics, and sci.physics.relativity (which is in itself unwise, as alt.ALL follows different rules than the Big 8.) > Like most people who think math is reality, I do not think that math is reality insofar as that it would define reality. I think, however, that math can be used to describe reality and predict the future to some extent. Because that is precisely what physics does: if I know where a particle was and I know its velocity (the time-derivative of its position), I can predict where and when, assuming no further interference, it is going to be. > you much overestimate your own value. You overestimate your understanding of the universe, including your understanding of me. > We are not impressed with your arrogance. And who are you to speak for everyone? Is that not a clear sign that *you* “overestimate your own value”, that you display “arrogance”? > Since we can define "God" as the entire universe, […] We can also define “hutzliputzli” as the grind in your nose, but neither definition is particularly useful. In fact, a being called “God” that *is* the entire universe is a concept of pantheism which is alien to Christianity, the religious school that has been referred to: In Christianity, the belief is instead that the “God” *created* the universe (for humans); “God” therefore is an entity separate from the universe there. PointedEars -- Q: What did the female magnet say to the male magnet? A: From the back, I found you repulsive, but from the front I find myself very attracted to you. (from: WolframAlpha)
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-22 14:02 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <56523B88.2389@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #534525 |
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: > > The Starmaker wrote: > > > Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: > >> Please stop crossposting without Followup-To set, and start posting using > >> your real name. > > > > What if his real name is PointedLips? > > Then he must have had really cruel parents. > > Which part of “stop crossposting without Followup-To set†did you not > understand, again crossposting without Followup-To across three newsgroups? > > > Do you actually believe God can create a universe where he cannot see the > > edge? > > Your logic is flawed: It presupposes that there is a God, that they created > the universe, and that their perception would be like that of humans. That > way lies madness, not science. F'up2 alt.religion. I didn't mentioned anything about religion. Maybe I need to rephrase the question since you get convulsions when you see the word God... Do you actually believe God can create a universe where he cannot see the edge? Do you actually believe 'the laws of physics' can create a universe where it cannot see the edge? How will the 'laws of physics' know it got the math right?? In other words... Do you actually believe God can create a universe where he cannot see the edge? I mean, is God saying now.."What the fuck happen, I cannot see the edge of the universe!!!" What does logic have to do with it? I don't need no stinky logic...
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| From | Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-22 16:32 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <ltKdncymd74a38_LnZ2dnUU7-IsAAAAA@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #534615 |
On 11/22/15 4:02 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> Do you actually believe 'the laws of physics' can create a universe
> where it cannot see the edge?
No edge -- Finite and unbounded. Try reading the following links:
No Center
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/nocenter.html
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/infpoint.html
Also see Ned Wright's Cosmology Tutorial
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmolog.htm
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/CosmoCalc.html
WMAP: Foundations of the Big Bang theory
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni.html
WMAP: Tests of Big Bang Cosmology
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest.html
--
sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.
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| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-22 22:52 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <43891013.iMrqKbXi4r@PointedEars.de> |
| In reply to | #534615 |
The Starmaker wrote: > Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: >> > Do you actually believe God can create a universe where he cannot see >> > the edge? >> >> Your logic is flawed: It presupposes that there is a God, that they >> created the universe, and that their perception would be like that of >> humans. That way lies madness, not science. F'up2 alt.religion. > > I didn't mentioned anything about religion. “God” is not a concept of, and an entity in, religion? Speedy recovery! PointedEars, F'up2 set appropriately -- Two neutrinos go through a bar ... (from: WolframAlpha)
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| From | Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-23 10:51 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <mrWdnaImztaC2c7LnZ2dnUU7_82dnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #534344 |
On 11/21/15 11/21/15 - 5:43 AM, dvus wrote: > If there is no "center" of the Universe then > it would seem that it would have to be infinite in size. No. An infinite 3-d space that is not uniform can have a center, and any uniform closed 3-d space will have no center. "Closed" is a topological term. Loosely, it means of finite size and having no boundary. For instance, the 2-D surface of a sphere, CONSIDERING ONLY THE SURFACE -- there is no "edge" to fall off (which would be a boundary).... > Yet we are told the BB > happened just under 13.75 light-years ago. You have misread. That should be 13.75 billion years ago. > How could it be infinite if it > originated a finite time ago? You are conflating different aspects of the geometry. It is quite possible for the 3-d space of constant time to be infinite, yet there is nothing (i.e. no part of the manifold) preceding the big bang. That is, an infinite space can arise out of the big bang singularity -- such singularities can be inscrutable. > Additionally, I have read numerous articles that purport that cosmologists are > now able to see galaxies that formed a short time after the BB. What will they > see when they are able to see beyond those earliest galaxies? Earlier than those galaxies is "recombination" -- the time when the temperature of the universe cooled enough to permit atoms to form. Before that time there were so many free charged particles the light could not propagate any significant distance. Light that existed at that time can propagate to our telescopes, and has been redshifted so much it is now known as the cosmic microwave background radiation (CMBR). The CMBR is quite visible as microwave radiation with a current temperature of 2.7 K; it is observed to be isotropic to within about 1 part in 10,000. Measurements of the CMBR have become incredibly detailed and are key aspects of testing cosmological models. > Also, I constantly see diagrams supposedly of the entire Universe shaped kind of > like a football. (why it isn't round I don't know) Those diagrams don't indicate > the Universe is infinite or they would have to be be infinitely big. You are confusing different models, thinking they are the same; they aren't. The long axis of the "football" is TIME. The other two dimensions are space, and one spatial dimension is suppressed (to make visualization in 3-d possible). Such diagrams apply to models of the universe in which there is a "big crunch" -- a time-reversed version of the big bang where everything is compressed to infinite density and the universe ends in a singularity. In these models space is finite (and spherical [#]). [#] But it is NOT the interior of a sphere (which obviously has a boundary). Rather it is topologically the 3-sphere S^3, which has no boundary. Here "spherical" means "having the symmetry SO(3)", not "looking like a ball". > Then I read about theories of the "multiverse" composed of many bubble Universes > surrounding ours. How can you surround an infinite Universe? By using other dimensions. Or by not having a spatially-infinite universe (see above). > I try to read everything I can get my hands on about this subject but I still > can't seem to wrap my mind around the seemingly contradictory facts I see here > and elsewhere. [...] See Ned Wright's cosmology tutorial; it is the best intro I know. http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmolog.htm Tom Roberts
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| From | dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-24 17:07 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <dbk5cvF2onvU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #534811 |
On 11/23/2015 11:51 AM, Tom Roberts wrote: > On 11/21/15 11/21/15 - 5:43 AM, dvus wrote: >> If there is no "center" of the Universe then >> it would seem that it would have to be infinite in size. > > No. An infinite 3-d space that is not uniform can have a center, and any > uniform closed 3-d space will have no center. > > "Closed" is a topological term. Loosely, it means of finite > size and having no boundary. For instance, the 2-D surface > of a sphere, CONSIDERING ONLY THE SURFACE -- there is no > "edge" to fall off (which would be a boundary).... > > >> Yet we are told the BB >> happened just under 13.75 light-years ago. > > You have misread. That should be 13.75 billion years ago. > > >> How could it be infinite if it >> originated a finite time ago? > > You are conflating different aspects of the geometry. It is quite > possible for the 3-d space of constant time to be infinite, yet there is > nothing (i.e. no part of the manifold) preceding the big bang. That is, > an infinite space can arise out of the big bang singularity -- such > singularities can be inscrutable. > > >> Additionally, I have read numerous articles that purport that >> cosmologists are >> now able to see galaxies that formed a short time after the BB. What >> will they >> see when they are able to see beyond those earliest galaxies? > > Earlier than those galaxies is "recombination" -- the time when the > temperature of the universe cooled enough to permit atoms to form. > Before that time there were so many free charged particles the light > could not propagate any significant distance. Light that existed at that > time can propagate to our telescopes, and has been redshifted so much it > is now known as the cosmic microwave background radiation (CMBR). The > CMBR is quite visible as microwave radiation with a current temperature > of 2.7 K; it is observed to be isotropic to within about 1 part in 10,000. > > Measurements of the CMBR have become incredibly detailed and > are key aspects of testing cosmological models. > > >> Also, I constantly see diagrams supposedly of the entire Universe >> shaped kind of >> like a football. (why it isn't round I don't know) Those diagrams >> don't indicate >> the Universe is infinite or they would have to be be infinitely big. > > You are confusing different models, thinking they are the same; they > aren't. > > The long axis of the "football" is TIME. The other two dimensions are > space, and one spatial dimension is suppressed (to make visualization in > 3-d possible). Such diagrams apply to models of the universe in which > there is a "big crunch" -- a time-reversed version of the big bang where > everything is compressed to infinite density and the universe ends in a > singularity. In these models space is finite (and spherical [#]). > > [#] But it is NOT the interior of a sphere (which obviously > has a boundary). Rather it is topologically the 3-sphere S^3, > which has no boundary. Here "spherical" means "having the > symmetry SO(3)", not "looking like a ball". > > >> Then I read about theories of the "multiverse" composed of many bubble >> Universes >> surrounding ours. How can you surround an infinite Universe? > > By using other dimensions. Or by not having a spatially-infinite > universe (see above). > > >> I try to read everything I can get my hands on about this subject but >> I still >> can't seem to wrap my mind around the seemingly contradictory facts I >> see here >> and elsewhere. [...] > > See Ned Wright's cosmology tutorial; it is the best intro I know. > http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmolog.htm It seems as though no one can say what the "shape" of the Universe really is, all these mathematical terms don't describe it in a way a person can visualize. If someone said we lived on the surface of a sphere of some determinate size I could visualize that, or if they said it was a fairly homogenous sphere we lived inside of, I could visualize that. But all I see are explanations of a Universe that's "bounded" or "not bounded" without an explanation of just what the heck that really means. I suppose if you live in a Universe which you consider has no "outside" it's tough to give its shape except in mathematical terms. I'd even prefer it if someone said "we have no idea" rather than these murky non-explanations. -- dvus
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| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-24 22:48 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1929728.aQylc7a8uv@PointedEars.de> |
| In reply to | #535199 |
dvus wrote: ^^^^ Please fix. > It seems as though no one can say what the "shape" of the Universe > really is, You are mistaken. We are pretty sure that it is locally flat, i.e. the local curvature is zero. > all these mathematical terms don't describe it in a way a > person can visualize. Measurements show that it is true regardless. At large observable scales, all triangles have an angle sum of approximately 180°. > If someone said we lived on the surface of a sphere of some determinate > size I could visualize that, or if they said it was a fairly homogenous > sphere we lived inside of, I could visualize that. But all I see are > explanations of a Universe that's "bounded" or "not bounded" without an > explanation of just what the heck that really means. What you see is your problem. It is a typical beginner’s mistake that everything that can be accepted as true also has to be visualizable. > I suppose if you live in a Universe which you consider has no > "outside" it's tough to give its shape except in mathematical terms. There simply is no way for humans to understand the curvature of space or any other higher-dimensional object intuitively because they cannot perceive that. But one can use the abstraction of a two-dimensional surface, an abstraction that works rather well because three-dimensional objects *can* be perceived by humans, and are perceived as arrangements of two-dimensional confining surfaces. And because the same math can be applied. For example, you define a cube by the arrangement of its confining 6 surfaces which need to be squares, and the angle between adjacent surfaces needs to be a right angle (90°). When you perceive such an arrangement of surfaces, from experience it is associated in your brain with the word “cube” (or whatever word in your native language). > I'd even prefer it if someone said "we have no idea" rather than these > murky non-explanations. But we have an idea. Your problem is that you did not even try to understand the explanations. F'up2 sci.physics.relativity PointedEars -- Q: How many theoretical physicists specializing in general relativity does it take to change a light bulb? A: Two: one to hold the bulb and one to rotate the universe. (from: WolframAlpha)
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-24 21:47 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <56554B77.DB7@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #535227 |
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: > > dvus wrote: > ^^^^ > Please fix. > > > It seems as though no one can say what the "shape" of the Universe > > really is, > > You are mistaken. We are pretty sure that it is locally flat, i.e. the > local curvature is zero. "pretty sure" doesn't cut the mustard. You need to do better than that. And Einstein already proved there is no PointedEars.
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| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-25 10:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <2133158.n7sHMRbLUT@PointedEars.de> |
| In reply to | #535296 |
The Starmaker amok-crossposted: > Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: >> dvus wrote: >> > It seems as though no one can say what the "shape" of the Universe >> > really is, >> >> You are mistaken. We are pretty sure that it is locally flat, i.e. the >> local curvature is zero. > > "pretty sure" doesn't cut the mustard. You need to do better than that. No, “pretty sure” is how science works. You make observations, you have a theory as to how things are, you test the theory; if it is confirmed by observations again, if it predicts what you observe later, it is good to go as long as there is no observation saying otherwise. “Only religion claims to know everything although clearly knowing nothing.” (Lawrence Krauss [paraphrased]) > And Einstein already proved there is no PointedEars. In your dreams. F'up2 .relativity PointedEars -- Q: Why is electricity so dangerous? A: It doesn't conduct itself. (from: WolframAlpha)
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