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Groups > sci.physics > #895736 > unrolled thread

Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers

Started byJan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
First post2026-04-18 17:12 +0000
Last post2026-04-23 11:23 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 90 — 12 participants

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  Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-04-18 17:12 +0000
    Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-18 12:32 -0700
      Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-04-19 06:32 +0000
        Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-19 07:45 -0700
          Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-20 03:49 +1000
            Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-04-19 20:16 +0200
              Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-04-19 12:03 -0700
              Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2026-04-19 12:47 -0700
              Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-20 10:40 -0700
                Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-21 05:08 +1000
                  Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-20 20:14 -0700
            Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-04-19 22:00 -0700
              Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-04-20 09:26 +0200
              Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-20 10:42 -0700
            Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-20 10:37 -0700
              Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers joegwinn@comcast.net - 2026-04-20 14:54 -0400
                Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers joegwinn@comcast.net - 2026-04-20 18:00 -0400
              Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-04-21 05:57 +0000
              Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-21 18:40 +1000
        Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers joegwinn@comcast.net - 2026-04-19 15:12 -0400
          Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-19 12:50 -0700
            Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-04-19 21:40 -0700
              Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-20 07:10 -0700
                Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-21 03:17 +1000
                  Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-20 10:29 -0700
                    Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-21 04:21 +1000
                      Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-20 12:01 -0700
                        Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-04-21 05:50 +0000
                          Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-21 06:45 -0700
                            Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-04-21 17:29 +0000
                              Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-21 10:57 -0700
                                Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-04-22 08:12 +0000
                        Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-21 18:53 +1000
                    Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-04-21 01:05 -0700
                      Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-21 06:57 -0700
                        Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Jeremiah Jones <jj@j.j> - 2026-04-21 10:13 -0700
                          Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-21 10:29 -0700
                        Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-23 01:52 +1000
                          Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-22 09:38 -0700
                            Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-23 16:51 +1000
                              Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-23 08:24 -0700
                                Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-24 03:59 +1000
            Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-04-20 06:10 +0000
      Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-04-20 10:03 -0400
        Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-20 07:18 -0700
          Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-04-28 08:25 -0400
            Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-28 07:01 -0700
              Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-29 03:42 +1000
                Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-28 12:51 -0700
                  Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-29 14:58 +1000
                    Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-29 08:25 -0700
                      Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-30 01:44 +1000
                        Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-29 09:45 -0700
                          Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-30 23:12 +1000
                  Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers x3 <x@x.net> - 2026-04-29 03:59 -0700
    Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-04-19 11:04 +0200
    Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-04-20 10:07 -0400
      Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-20 07:55 -0700
        Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-21 03:35 +1000
          Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-20 12:07 -0700
            Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-04-21 05:35 +0000
              Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-21 07:03 -0700
                Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-04-21 17:19 +0000
                  Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-21 10:42 -0700
                    Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-04-22 07:55 +0000
                      Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-22 08:04 -0700
                        Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-04-23 06:22 +0000
            Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-21 21:35 +1000
              Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-21 07:12 -0700
                Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-04-21 17:11 +0000
                  Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-21 10:52 -0700
                    Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-04-22 07:21 +0000
                      Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-22 10:13 -0700
                        Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-04-23 06:49 +0000
                          Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-23 11:07 -0700
                        Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-23 17:08 +1000
                          Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-23 11:14 -0700
                            Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-04-23 21:15 +0200
                              Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-23 12:26 -0700
                            Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-24 05:18 +1000
                              Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-23 12:30 -0700
                    Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-23 02:33 +1000
                    Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers joegwinn@comcast.net - 2026-04-22 12:46 -0400
                Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers KevinJ93 <kevin_es@whitedigs.com> - 2026-04-21 11:06 -0700
                  IRe: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-21 17:08 -0700
                Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-23 02:22 +1000
        Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2026-04-22 08:11 -0400
          Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-22 10:18 -0700
            Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-23 17:17 +1000
              Re: Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-23 11:23 -0700

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#895797

FromJan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
Date2026-04-21 05:35 +0000
Message-ID<10s72a6$19461$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#895790
>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 03:35:20 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>wrote:
>
>>On 21/04/2026 12:55 am, john larkin wrote:
>>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2026 10:07:05 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2026 17:12:44 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From:
>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/04/260417085404.htm
>>>>> Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers
>>>>> Your тАЬmagicтА? sponge might be quietly adding trillions of microplastics to the planet.
>>>>> Date:
>>>>> April 18, 2026
>>>>> Source:
>>>>> American Chemical Society
>>>>> Summary:
>>>>> That тАЬmagicтА? sponge under your sink may be hiding an environmental downside. While melamine sponges are famous for
>>>>> effortlessly scrubbing away stubborn stains, they slowly break down as you use them shedding tiny plastic fibers that wash into
>>>>> water systems. Researchers estimate that globally, these sponges could release over a trillion microplastic fibers every month,
>>>>> potentially entering the food chain and affecting wildlife.
>>>>
>>>> More to the point, they're added to the immediate environment
>>>> without planetary dilution or dispersal . . . .where you live,
>>>> eat and breath.
>>>>
>>>> As do those from all domestic sources . . .
>>> 
>>> You are allowed to use natural sponges or cotton rags for washing up.
>>
>>They don't work all that well, but we are used to the side-effects.
>>
>>> And to dress in all natural fabrics.
>>
>>It is an expensive luxury.
>>
>>> And cook over a wood or dung fire.
>>
>>They are remarkably difficult to control. Electric ovens do offer stable 
>>and predictable temperatures, and a microwave oven heats food rapidly 
>>and uniformly, if that's what you want.
>>
>>Gas cookers have a nasty habit of leaving a layer of soot on every 
>>surface in the kitchen, and that probably includes your lungs.
>
>I never noticed any soot or gunk from our natural-gas range. A good
>non-smoking oil is recommended for frying, pecan or sesame. Cheap oils
>like corn or canola smoke.
>
>We have fan vents over the range too.

I stopped using gas decennia ago.
An other advantage is that if gas or electric supply is cut I can use my solar panels, 250 Ah lipo battery pack, and 2 kW pure sinewave battery to mains converter..
Tested on the microwave and other stuff, works perfectly, keeps the fridge running too.
And satellite TV!
Fiber will be dead..

Amazing, 10 minutes microwave can do a lot! Not much power used!
Water cooker, few minutes for a liter boiling water.
You do not even have to skip your coffee...


[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#895807

Fromjohn larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
Date2026-04-21 07:03 -0700
Message-ID<2k0fuklj4te0ro8cgov6lrbdj7sk483dok@4ax.com>
In reply to#895797
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 05:35:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>>On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 03:35:20 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 21/04/2026 12:55 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2026 10:07:05 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2026 17:12:44 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From:
>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/04/260417085404.htm
>>>>>> Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers
>>>>>> Your “magic� sponge might be quietly adding trillions of microplastics to the planet.
>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>> April 18, 2026
>>>>>> Source:
>>>>>> American Chemical Society
>>>>>> Summary:
>>>>>> That “magic� sponge under your sink may be hiding an environmental downside. While melamine sponges are famous for
>>>>>> effortlessly scrubbing away stubborn stains, they slowly break down as you use them shedding tiny plastic fibers that wash into
>>>>>> water systems. Researchers estimate that globally, these sponges could release over a trillion microplastic fibers every month,
>>>>>> potentially entering the food chain and affecting wildlife.
>>>>>
>>>>> More to the point, they're added to the immediate environment
>>>>> without planetary dilution or dispersal . . . .where you live,
>>>>> eat and breath.
>>>>>
>>>>> As do those from all domestic sources . . .
>>>> 
>>>> You are allowed to use natural sponges or cotton rags for washing up.
>>>
>>>They don't work all that well, but we are used to the side-effects.
>>>
>>>> And to dress in all natural fabrics.
>>>
>>>It is an expensive luxury.
>>>
>>>> And cook over a wood or dung fire.
>>>
>>>They are remarkably difficult to control. Electric ovens do offer stable 
>>>and predictable temperatures, and a microwave oven heats food rapidly 
>>>and uniformly, if that's what you want.
>>>
>>>Gas cookers have a nasty habit of leaving a layer of soot on every 
>>>surface in the kitchen, and that probably includes your lungs.
>>
>>I never noticed any soot or gunk from our natural-gas range. A good
>>non-smoking oil is recommended for frying, pecan or sesame. Cheap oils
>>like corn or canola smoke.
>>
>>We have fan vents over the range too.
>
>I stopped using gas decennia ago.
>An other advantage is that if gas or electric supply is cut I can use my solar panels, 250 Ah lipo battery pack, and 2 kW pure sinewave battery to mains converter..
>Tested on the microwave and other stuff, works perfectly, keeps the fridge running too.
>And satellite TV!
>Fiber will be dead..
>
>Amazing, 10 minutes microwave can do a lot! Not much power used!
>Water cooker, few minutes for a liter boiling water.
>You do not even have to skip your coffee...
>
>

Our gas and electricity are independent and both are very reliable.
The gas range can be ignited without electricity. And I have a propane
BBQ on the deck outside the kitchen. It has a nice view too.

Microwaves are good for thawing leftovers. We don't actually cook
anything in the microwave.


John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#895812

FromJan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
Date2026-04-21 17:19 +0000
Message-ID<10s8bi8$1llvq$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#895807
>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 05:35:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>>>On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 03:35:20 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 21/04/2026 12:55 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2026 10:07:05 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2026 17:12:44 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From:
>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/04/260417085404.htm
>>>>>>> Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers
>>>>>>> Your тАЬmagicтА? sponge might be quietly adding trillions of microplastics to the planet.
>>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>>> April 18, 2026
>>>>>>> Source:
>>>>>>> American Chemical Society
>>>>>>> Summary:
>>>>>>> That тАЬmagicтА? sponge under your sink may be hiding an environmental downside. While melamine sponges are famous for
>>>>>>> effortlessly scrubbing away stubborn stains, they slowly break down as you use them shedding tiny plastic fibers that
>>>>>>> wash into
>>>>>>> water systems. Researchers estimate that globally, these sponges could release over a trillion microplastic fibers every
>>>>>>> month,
>>>>>>> potentially entering the food chain and affecting wildlife.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More to the point, they're added to the immediate environment
>>>>>> without planetary dilution or dispersal . . . .where you live,
>>>>>> eat and breath.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As do those from all domestic sources . . .
>>>>> 
>>>>> You are allowed to use natural sponges or cotton rags for washing up.
>>>>
>>>>They don't work all that well, but we are used to the side-effects.
>>>>
>>>>> And to dress in all natural fabrics.
>>>>
>>>>It is an expensive luxury.
>>>>
>>>>> And cook over a wood or dung fire.
>>>>
>>>>They are remarkably difficult to control. Electric ovens do offer stable 
>>>>and predictable temperatures, and a microwave oven heats food rapidly 
>>>>and uniformly, if that's what you want.
>>>>
>>>>Gas cookers have a nasty habit of leaving a layer of soot on every 
>>>>surface in the kitchen, and that probably includes your lungs.
>>>
>>>I never noticed any soot or gunk from our natural-gas range. A good
>>>non-smoking oil is recommended for frying, pecan or sesame. Cheap oils
>>>like corn or canola smoke.
>>>
>>>We have fan vents over the range too.
>>
>>I stopped using gas decennia ago.
>>An other advantage is that if gas or electric supply is cut I can use my solar panels, 250 Ah lipo battery pack, and 2 kW pure
>>sinewave battery to mains converter..
>>Tested on the microwave and other stuff, works perfectly, keeps the fridge running too.
>>And satellite TV!
>>Fiber will be dead..
>>
>>Amazing, 10 minutes microwave can do a lot! Not much power used!
>>Water cooker, few minutes for a liter boiling water.
>>You do not even have to skip your coffee...
>>
>>
>
>Our gas and electricity are independent and both are very reliable.
>The gas range can be ignited without electricity. And I have a propane
>BBQ on the deck outside the kitchen. It has a nice view too.
>
>Microwaves are good for thawing leftovers. We don't actually cook
>anything in the microwave.

I also use it to heat up pizzas and other stuff stored in the deepfreeze

I do have a fire-starter and plenty of burnable stuff in the garden if all else fails :-)
Was just working in the garden this afternoon...
Removing stuff and planting nice new plants.
Few more month and the grapes are ready again.
Weather is nice.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#895815

Fromjohn larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
Date2026-04-21 10:42 -0700
Message-ID<n1dfukt6ksoi9cpjv927lit9mpak1s2e71@4ax.com>
In reply to#895812
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 17:19:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>>On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 05:35:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>>>>On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 03:35:20 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 21/04/2026 12:55 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2026 10:07:05 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2026 17:12:44 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From:
>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/04/260417085404.htm
>>>>>>>> Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers
>>>>>>>> Your “magic� sponge might be quietly adding trillions of microplastics to the planet.
>>>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>>>> April 18, 2026
>>>>>>>> Source:
>>>>>>>> American Chemical Society
>>>>>>>> Summary:
>>>>>>>> That “magic� sponge under your sink may be hiding an environmental downside. While melamine sponges are famous for
>>>>>>>> effortlessly scrubbing away stubborn stains, they slowly break down as you use them shedding tiny plastic fibers that
>>>>>>>> wash into
>>>>>>>> water systems. Researchers estimate that globally, these sponges could release over a trillion microplastic fibers every
>>>>>>>> month,
>>>>>>>> potentially entering the food chain and affecting wildlife.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> More to the point, they're added to the immediate environment
>>>>>>> without planetary dilution or dispersal . . . .where you live,
>>>>>>> eat and breath.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As do those from all domestic sources . . .
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You are allowed to use natural sponges or cotton rags for washing up.
>>>>>
>>>>>They don't work all that well, but we are used to the side-effects.
>>>>>
>>>>>> And to dress in all natural fabrics.
>>>>>
>>>>>It is an expensive luxury.
>>>>>
>>>>>> And cook over a wood or dung fire.
>>>>>
>>>>>They are remarkably difficult to control. Electric ovens do offer stable 
>>>>>and predictable temperatures, and a microwave oven heats food rapidly 
>>>>>and uniformly, if that's what you want.
>>>>>
>>>>>Gas cookers have a nasty habit of leaving a layer of soot on every 
>>>>>surface in the kitchen, and that probably includes your lungs.
>>>>
>>>>I never noticed any soot or gunk from our natural-gas range. A good
>>>>non-smoking oil is recommended for frying, pecan or sesame. Cheap oils
>>>>like corn or canola smoke.
>>>>
>>>>We have fan vents over the range too.
>>>
>>>I stopped using gas decennia ago.
>>>An other advantage is that if gas or electric supply is cut I can use my solar panels, 250 Ah lipo battery pack, and 2 kW pure
>>>sinewave battery to mains converter..
>>>Tested on the microwave and other stuff, works perfectly, keeps the fridge running too.
>>>And satellite TV!
>>>Fiber will be dead..
>>>
>>>Amazing, 10 minutes microwave can do a lot! Not much power used!
>>>Water cooker, few minutes for a liter boiling water.
>>>You do not even have to skip your coffee...
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Our gas and electricity are independent and both are very reliable.
>>The gas range can be ignited without electricity. And I have a propane
>>BBQ on the deck outside the kitchen. It has a nice view too.
>>
>>Microwaves are good for thawing leftovers. We don't actually cook
>>anything in the microwave.
>
>I also use it to heat up pizzas and other stuff stored in the deepfreeze

It makes pizza soggy!

>
>I do have a fire-starter and plenty of burnable stuff in the garden if all else fails :-)
>Was just working in the garden this afternoon...
>Removing stuff and planting nice new plants.
>Few more month and the grapes are ready again.
>Weather is nice.

Nice here too. We got a bit of rain, which is unusual this time of
year and welcome in what is legally a desert. 

Things are so green now that it hurts your eyes. 

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/t8xrbtv8omi6iu1y1v5m9/Penny_Lane.jpg?rlkey=264fssnj9iocd3rx33mb6jjqr&raw=1

but it won't rain much more until November so things will dry out.



John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#895833

FromJan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
Date2026-04-22 07:55 +0000
Message-ID<10s9uuc$23e5d$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#895815
>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 17:19:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>>>On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 05:35:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>>>>>On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 03:35:20 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 21/04/2026 12:55 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2026 10:07:05 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2026 17:12:44 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From:
>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/04/260417085404.htm
>>>>>>>>> Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers
>>>>>>>>> Your тАЬmagicтА? sponge might be quietly adding trillions of microplastics to the planet.
>>>>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>>>>> April 18, 2026
>>>>>>>>> Source:
>>>>>>>>> American Chemical Society
>>>>>>>>> Summary:
>>>>>>>>> That тАЬmagicтА? sponge under your sink may be hiding an environmental downside. While melamine sponges are famous for
>>>>>>>>> effortlessly scrubbing away stubborn stains, they slowly break down as you use them shedding tiny plastic fibers that
>>>>>>>>> wash into
>>>>>>>>> water systems. Researchers estimate that globally, these sponges could release over a trillion microplastic fibers
>>>>>>>>> every
>>>>>>>>> month,
>>>>>>>>> potentially entering the food chain and affecting wildlife.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> More to the point, they're added to the immediate environment
>>>>>>>> without planetary dilution or dispersal . . . .where you live,
>>>>>>>> eat and breath.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As do those from all domestic sources . . .
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You are allowed to use natural sponges or cotton rags for washing up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>They don't work all that well, but we are used to the side-effects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And to dress in all natural fabrics.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It is an expensive luxury.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And cook over a wood or dung fire.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>They are remarkably difficult to control. Electric ovens do offer stable 
>>>>>>and predictable temperatures, and a microwave oven heats food rapidly 
>>>>>>and uniformly, if that's what you want.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Gas cookers have a nasty habit of leaving a layer of soot on every 
>>>>>>surface in the kitchen, and that probably includes your lungs.
>>>>>
>>>>>I never noticed any soot or gunk from our natural-gas range. A good
>>>>>non-smoking oil is recommended for frying, pecan or sesame. Cheap oils
>>>>>like corn or canola smoke.
>>>>>
>>>>>We have fan vents over the range too.
>>>>
>>>>I stopped using gas decennia ago.
>>>>An other advantage is that if gas or electric supply is cut I can use my solar panels, 250 Ah lipo battery pack, and 2 kW
>>>>pure
>>>>sinewave battery to mains converter..
>>>>Tested on the microwave and other stuff, works perfectly, keeps the fridge running too.
>>>>And satellite TV!
>>>>Fiber will be dead..
>>>>
>>>>Amazing, 10 minutes microwave can do a lot! Not much power used!
>>>>Water cooker, few minutes for a liter boiling water.
>>>>You do not even have to skip your coffee...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Our gas and electricity are independent and both are very reliable.
>>>The gas range can be ignited without electricity. And I have a propane
>>>BBQ on the deck outside the kitchen. It has a nice view too.
>>>
>>>Microwaves are good for thawing leftovers. We don't actually cook
>>>anything in the microwave.
>>
>>I also use it to heat up pizzas and other stuff stored in the deepfreeze
>
>It makes pizza soggy!

I usually buy some frozen Dr Oetker pizzas and put those in the deepfreeze.
 https://www.folderz.nl/winkels/albert-heijn/aanbiedingen/alle-dr-oetker-ristorante-pizza-s-295-390-gram-aanbieding-28595865/
when dinner time take one I like, use the Whirlpool magnetron to defrost those, then use the Whirlppol oven. 

Make my own toppings, usually bake some mushrooms with butter, chili peppers, garlic, salt, onions, white pepper powder in a pan,
put it on top of the Dr Oetker pizzas... add some apricots, olives, sometimes salad, some ketchup,
 

>>I do have a fire-starter and plenty of burnable stuff in the garden if all else fails :-)
>>Was just working in the garden this afternoon...
>>Removing stuff and planting nice new plants.
>>Few more month and the grapes are ready again.
>>Weather is nice.
>
>Nice here too. We got a bit of rain, which is unusual this time of
>year and welcome in what is legally a desert. 
>
>Things are so green now that it hurts your eyes. 
>
>https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/t8xrbtv8omi6iu1y1v5m9/Penny_Lane.jpg?rlkey=264fssnj9iocd3rx33mb6jjqr&raw=1

Nice, work to do!

>but it won't rain much more until November so things will dry out.

Sounds bad.. plenty of rain here, just a few miles from the sea
this week will be sunny and dry,
but later with wind from the sea likely more rain.
Groundwater is not ver deep here
Road here is lined with apple trees, hundreds laying about in summer !

It never rains in California...?
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gmq4WIjQxp0

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#895836

Fromjohn larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
Date2026-04-22 08:04 -0700
Message-ID<ginhukdn1ltb7hbj84v0h7ggbk5h0j80lc@4ax.com>
In reply to#895833
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 07:55:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>>On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 17:19:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>>>>On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 05:35:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 03:35:20 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On 21/04/2026 12:55 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2026 10:07:05 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2026 17:12:44 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From:
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/04/260417085404.htm
>>>>>>>>>> Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers
>>>>>>>>>> Your “magic� sponge might be quietly adding trillions of microplastics to the planet.
>>>>>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>>>>>> April 18, 2026
>>>>>>>>>> Source:
>>>>>>>>>> American Chemical Society
>>>>>>>>>> Summary:
>>>>>>>>>> That “magic� sponge under your sink may be hiding an environmental downside. While melamine sponges are famous for
>>>>>>>>>> effortlessly scrubbing away stubborn stains, they slowly break down as you use them shedding tiny plastic fibers that
>>>>>>>>>> wash into
>>>>>>>>>> water systems. Researchers estimate that globally, these sponges could release over a trillion microplastic fibers
>>>>>>>>>> every
>>>>>>>>>> month,
>>>>>>>>>> potentially entering the food chain and affecting wildlife.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> More to the point, they're added to the immediate environment
>>>>>>>>> without planetary dilution or dispersal . . . .where you live,
>>>>>>>>> eat and breath.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As do those from all domestic sources . . .
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You are allowed to use natural sponges or cotton rags for washing up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>They don't work all that well, but we are used to the side-effects.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And to dress in all natural fabrics.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It is an expensive luxury.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And cook over a wood or dung fire.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>They are remarkably difficult to control. Electric ovens do offer stable 
>>>>>>>and predictable temperatures, and a microwave oven heats food rapidly 
>>>>>>>and uniformly, if that's what you want.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Gas cookers have a nasty habit of leaving a layer of soot on every 
>>>>>>>surface in the kitchen, and that probably includes your lungs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I never noticed any soot or gunk from our natural-gas range. A good
>>>>>>non-smoking oil is recommended for frying, pecan or sesame. Cheap oils
>>>>>>like corn or canola smoke.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>We have fan vents over the range too.
>>>>>
>>>>>I stopped using gas decennia ago.
>>>>>An other advantage is that if gas or electric supply is cut I can use my solar panels, 250 Ah lipo battery pack, and 2 kW
>>>>>pure
>>>>>sinewave battery to mains converter..
>>>>>Tested on the microwave and other stuff, works perfectly, keeps the fridge running too.
>>>>>And satellite TV!
>>>>>Fiber will be dead..
>>>>>
>>>>>Amazing, 10 minutes microwave can do a lot! Not much power used!
>>>>>Water cooker, few minutes for a liter boiling water.
>>>>>You do not even have to skip your coffee...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Our gas and electricity are independent and both are very reliable.
>>>>The gas range can be ignited without electricity. And I have a propane
>>>>BBQ on the deck outside the kitchen. It has a nice view too.
>>>>
>>>>Microwaves are good for thawing leftovers. We don't actually cook
>>>>anything in the microwave.
>>>
>>>I also use it to heat up pizzas and other stuff stored in the deepfreeze
>>
>>It makes pizza soggy!
>
>I usually buy some frozen Dr Oetker pizzas and put those in the deepfreeze.
> https://www.folderz.nl/winkels/albert-heijn/aanbiedingen/alle-dr-oetker-ristorante-pizza-s-295-390-gram-aanbieding-28595865/
>when dinner time take one I like, use the Whirlpool magnetron to defrost those, then use the Whirlppol oven. 
>
>Make my own toppings, usually bake some mushrooms with butter, chili peppers, garlic, salt, onions, white pepper powder in a pan,
>put it on top of the Dr Oetker pizzas... add some apricots, olives, sometimes salad, some ketchup,

The Canyon Market down the hill sells bags of freshly made pizza
dough. We like their sourdough.

We roll that out and add a bit of Mo's tomato sauce, which she makes
from cherry tomatoes; my job is to whup it up with my hand blender. We
add good cheese and red onions and garlic and some green stuff. I like
sausage on my half.

It bakes for 12 minutes at 450F, until a couple bits around the edge
bubble up black.

> 
>
>>>I do have a fire-starter and plenty of burnable stuff in the garden if all else fails :-)
>>>Was just working in the garden this afternoon...
>>>Removing stuff and planting nice new plants.
>>>Few more month and the grapes are ready again.
>>>Weather is nice.
>>
>>Nice here too. We got a bit of rain, which is unusual this time of
>>year and welcome in what is legally a desert. 
>>
>>Things are so green now that it hurts your eyes. 
>>
>>https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/t8xrbtv8omi6iu1y1v5m9/Penny_Lane.jpg?rlkey=264fssnj9iocd3rx33mb6jjqr&raw=1
>
>Nice, work to do!

I opened a design office down in the village, so I can hike to work
and not drive the dreadful freeway and park downtown.

I walk mostly on lanes, little mid-block dirt roads like in the pic.
Penny Lane, Poppy Lane, Ohlone Way, and the canyon greenbelt.

It's a bunch of vertical feet, good exercize after clicking a mouse
all day.

We have a policy that if you get suck on something, take a walk.

Here's our conference room:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4s4cz13r8i4d6x1kb5r4a/Conference_Room.jpg?rlkey=dmcjg76js62hswuaf73g8stkw&dl=0

>
>>but it won't rain much more until November so things will dry out.
>
>Sounds bad.. plenty of rain here, just a few miles from the sea
>this week will be sunny and dry,
>but later with wind from the sea likely more rain.
>Groundwater is not ver deep here
>Road here is lined with apple trees, hundreds laying about in summer !
>
>It never rains in California...?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gmq4WIjQxp0

Gosh, those were the days.

Around here, it usually doesn't rain between April and November. It
rains more up north, and east in the Sierras.

Some of the plants survive by absorbing the fog through their leaves.

We almost never get ESD zaps here. Or lightning.


John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#895850

FromJan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
Date2026-04-23 06:22 +0000
Message-ID<10scdqs$2qqhh$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#895836
>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 07:55:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>>>On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 17:19:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>>>>>On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 05:35:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 03:35:20 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On 21/04/2026 12:55 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2026 10:07:05 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2026 17:12:44 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> From:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/04/260417085404.htm
>>>>>>>>>>> Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers
>>>>>>>>>>> Your тАЬmagicтА? sponge might be quietly adding trillions of microplastics to the planet.
>>>>>>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>>>>>>> April 18, 2026
>>>>>>>>>>> Source:
>>>>>>>>>>> American Chemical Society
>>>>>>>>>>> Summary:
>>>>>>>>>>> That тАЬmagicтА? sponge under your sink may be hiding an environmental downside. While melamine sponges are famous
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> effortlessly scrubbing away stubborn stains, they slowly break down as you use them shedding tiny plastic fibers
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> wash into
>>>>>>>>>>> water systems. Researchers estimate that globally, these sponges could release over a trillion microplastic fibers
>>>>>>>>>>> every
>>>>>>>>>>> month,
>>>>>>>>>>> potentially entering the food chain and affecting wildlife.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> More to the point, they're added to the immediate environment
>>>>>>>>>> without planetary dilution or dispersal . . . .where you live,
>>>>>>>>>> eat and breath.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As do those from all domestic sources . . .
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> You are allowed to use natural sponges or cotton rags for washing up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>They don't work all that well, but we are used to the side-effects.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And to dress in all natural fabrics.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It is an expensive luxury.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And cook over a wood or dung fire.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>They are remarkably difficult to control. Electric ovens do offer stable 
>>>>>>>>and predictable temperatures, and a microwave oven heats food rapidly 
>>>>>>>>and uniformly, if that's what you want.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Gas cookers have a nasty habit of leaving a layer of soot on every 
>>>>>>>>surface in the kitchen, and that probably includes your lungs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I never noticed any soot or gunk from our natural-gas range. A good
>>>>>>>non-smoking oil is recommended for frying, pecan or sesame. Cheap oils
>>>>>>>like corn or canola smoke.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>We have fan vents over the range too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I stopped using gas decennia ago.
>>>>>>An other advantage is that if gas or electric supply is cut I can use my solar panels, 250 Ah lipo battery pack, and 2 kW
>>>>>>pure
>>>>>>sinewave battery to mains converter..
>>>>>>Tested on the microwave and other stuff, works perfectly, keeps the fridge running too.
>>>>>>And satellite TV!
>>>>>>Fiber will be dead..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Amazing, 10 minutes microwave can do a lot! Not much power used!
>>>>>>Water cooker, few minutes for a liter boiling water.
>>>>>>You do not even have to skip your coffee...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Our gas and electricity are independent and both are very reliable.
>>>>>The gas range can be ignited without electricity. And I have a propane
>>>>>BBQ on the deck outside the kitchen. It has a nice view too.
>>>>>
>>>>>Microwaves are good for thawing leftovers. We don't actually cook
>>>>>anything in the microwave.
>>>>
>>>>I also use it to heat up pizzas and other stuff stored in the deepfreeze
>>>
>>>It makes pizza soggy!
>>
>>I usually buy some frozen Dr Oetker pizzas and put those in the deepfreeze.
>> https://www.folderz.nl/winkels/albert-heijn/aanbiedingen/alle-dr-oetker-ristorante-pizza-s-295-390-gram-aanbieding-28595865/
>>when dinner time take one I like, use the Whirlpool magnetron to defrost those, then use the Whirlppol oven. 
>>
>>Make my own toppings, usually bake some mushrooms with butter, chili peppers, garlic, salt, onions, white pepper powder in a
>>pan,
>>put it on top of the Dr Oetker pizzas... add some apricots, olives, sometimes salad, some ketchup,
>
>The Canyon Market down the hill sells bags of freshly made pizza
>dough. We like their sourdough.
>
>We roll that out and add a bit of Mo's tomato sauce, which she makes
>from cherry tomatoes; my job is to whup it up with my hand blender. We
>add good cheese and red onions and garlic and some green stuff. I like
>sausage on my half.
>
>It bakes for 12 minutes at 450F, until a couple bits around the edge
>bubble up black.

The Dr Oetker pizzas have been proven consistent high quality for many years
Unlike Aviko french fries
Those have a high percentage of bad black spots
Did not Phil Hobbs once design a monitoring system, for something like that? Was it Aviko?
There is a local pizza shop here that also delivers to your house at some extra costs.
But I just bike to the next village supermarket for my shopping, exercise is good.
What I use a lot -every day- for baking stuff is virgin olive oil, was addicted to it first time I tasted it!
Few days ago I found this:
 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/04/260417224527.htm
 Scientists say this type of olive oil could boost brain power
 Extra virgin olive oil could boost brain health by reshaping your gutтАФmaking quality matter more than ever.

Olive trees get very old, 
Am experimenting with maize too, got a pack of maize cookies, opened it
and the smell put me right into South America!
Amazing!


>> 
>>
>>>>I do have a fire-starter and plenty of burnable stuff in the garden if all else fails :-)
>>>>Was just working in the garden this afternoon...
>>>>Removing stuff and planting nice new plants.
>>>>Few more month and the grapes are ready again.
>>>>Weather is nice.
>>>
>>>Nice here too. We got a bit of rain, which is unusual this time of
>>>year and welcome in what is legally a desert. 
>>>
>>>Things are so green now that it hurts your eyes. 
>>>
>>>https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/t8xrbtv8omi6iu1y1v5m9/Penny_Lane.jpg?rlkey=264fssnj9iocd3rx33mb6jjqr&raw=1
>>
>>Nice, work to do!
>
>I opened a design office down in the village, so I can hike to work
>and not drive the dreadful freeway and park downtown.
>
>I walk mostly on lanes, little mid-block dirt roads like in the pic.
>Penny Lane, Poppy Lane, Ohlone Way, and the canyon greenbelt.
>
>It's a bunch of vertical feet, good exercize after clicking a mouse
>all day.

No hills here ...
But I walk around all day, in my youth had many medals for completing long marches.


>We have a policy that if you get suck on something, take a walk.
>
>Here's our conference room:
>
>https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4s4cz13r8i4d6x1kb5r4a/Conference_Room.jpg?rlkey=dmcjg76js62hswuaf73g8stkw&dl=0

That is fun, if it does not rain!
You need some drawing board?
Or use smart phones?



>>>but it won't rain much more until November so things will dry out.
>>
>>Sounds bad.. plenty of rain here, just a few miles from the sea
>>this week will be sunny and dry,
>>but later with wind from the sea likely more rain.
>>Groundwater is not ver deep here
>>Road here is lined with apple trees, hundreds laying about in summer !
>>
>>It never rains in California...?
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gmq4WIjQxp0
>
>Gosh, those were the days.
>
>Around here, it usually doesn't rain between April and November. It
>rains more up north, and east in the Sierras.
>
>Some of the plants survive by absorbing the fog through their leaves.
>
>We almost never get ESD zaps here. Or lightning.

Lighting here sometimes, storms! had a bad one a while back...
And slippery roads when freezing.
Few month ago a warning: stay home, many cars just slided of the road..
I had my stuff delivered to the house, too dangerous for biking.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#895804

FromBill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
Date2026-04-21 21:35 +1000
Message-ID<10s7nem$1euq0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#895790
On 21/04/2026 5:07 am, john larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 03:35:20 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 21/04/2026 12:55 am, john larkin wrote:
>>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2026 10:07:05 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2026 17:12:44 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From:
>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/04/260417085404.htm
>>>>> Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers
>>>>> Your “magic� sponge might be quietly adding trillions of microplastics to the planet.
>>>>> Date:
>>>>> April 18, 2026
>>>>> Source:
>>>>> American Chemical Society
>>>>> Summary:
>>>>> That “magic� sponge under your sink may be hiding an environmental downside. While melamine sponges are famous for effortlessly scrubbing away stubborn stains, they slowly break down as you use them shedding tiny plastic fibers that wash into water systems. Researchers estimate that globally, these sponges could release over a trillion microplastic fibers every month, potentially entering the food chain and affecting wildlife.
>>>>
>>>> More to the point, they're added to the immediate environment
>>>> without planetary dilution or dispersal . . . .where you live,
>>>> eat and breath.
>>>>
>>>> As do those from all domestic sources . . .
>>>
>>> You are allowed to use natural sponges or cotton rags for washing up.
>>
>> They don't work all that well, but we are used to the side-effects.
>>
>>> And to dress in all natural fabrics.
>>
>> It is an expensive luxury.
>>
>>> And cook over a wood or dung fire.
>>
>> They are remarkably difficult to control. Electric ovens do offer stable
>> and predictable temperatures, and a microwave oven heats food rapidly
>> and uniformly, if that's what you want.
>>
>> Gas cookers have a nasty habit of leaving a layer of soot on every
>> surface in the kitchen, and that probably includes your lungs.
> 
> I never noticed any soot or gunk from our natural-gas range. A good
> non-smoking oil is recommended for frying, pecan or sesame. Cheap oils
> like corn or canola smoke.
> 
> We have fan vents over the range too.

The problem was notorious in the UK. Extractor fans are rare there, and 
not easy to fit. We did have one over the island cooker in our big house 
in the Netherlands, and the fumes collected above the electric cooker 
got piped up to the ceiling and piped across to an outside wall, but we 
spent a lot of money reworking the kitchen and dining area. That house 
had been originally been built in 1936 for a prominent member of the 
Dutch national socialist party, on the foundations of a much older farm 
house, so the reworking was pretty much essential. My wife - as the 
director of a Max Planck Institute in Nijmegen - wanted house where she 
was seen as the hostess rather than the cook.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#895808

Fromjohn larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
Date2026-04-21 07:12 -0700
Message-ID<3u0fukdar37rs3qo55rv4qv6kunpa7ouar@4ax.com>
In reply to#895804
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 21:35:48 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
wrote:

>On 21/04/2026 5:07 am, john larkin wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 03:35:20 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 21/04/2026 12:55 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2026 10:07:05 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2026 17:12:44 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From:
>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/04/260417085404.htm
>>>>>> Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers
>>>>>> Your “magic� sponge might be quietly adding trillions of microplastics to the planet.
>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>> April 18, 2026
>>>>>> Source:
>>>>>> American Chemical Society
>>>>>> Summary:
>>>>>> That “magic� sponge under your sink may be hiding an environmental downside. While melamine sponges are famous for effortlessly scrubbing away stubborn stains, they slowly break down as you use them shedding tiny plastic fibers that wash into water systems. Researchers estimate that globally, these sponges could release over a trillion microplastic fibers every month, potentially entering the food chain and affecting wildlife.
>>>>>
>>>>> More to the point, they're added to the immediate environment
>>>>> without planetary dilution or dispersal . . . .where you live,
>>>>> eat and breath.
>>>>>
>>>>> As do those from all domestic sources . . .
>>>>
>>>> You are allowed to use natural sponges or cotton rags for washing up.
>>>
>>> They don't work all that well, but we are used to the side-effects.
>>>
>>>> And to dress in all natural fabrics.
>>>
>>> It is an expensive luxury.
>>>
>>>> And cook over a wood or dung fire.
>>>
>>> They are remarkably difficult to control. Electric ovens do offer stable
>>> and predictable temperatures, and a microwave oven heats food rapidly
>>> and uniformly, if that's what you want.
>>>
>>> Gas cookers have a nasty habit of leaving a layer of soot on every
>>> surface in the kitchen, and that probably includes your lungs.
>> 
>> I never noticed any soot or gunk from our natural-gas range. A good
>> non-smoking oil is recommended for frying, pecan or sesame. Cheap oils
>> like corn or canola smoke.
>> 
>> We have fan vents over the range too.
>
>The problem was notorious in the UK. Extractor fans are rare there, and 
>not easy to fit. We did have one over the island cooker in our big house 
>in the Netherlands, and the fumes collected above the electric cooker 
>got piped up to the ceiling and piped across to an outside wall, but we 
>spent a lot of money reworking the kitchen and dining area. That house 
>had been originally been built in 1936 for a prominent member of the 
>Dutch national socialist party, on the foundations of a much older farm 
>house, so the reworking was pretty much essential. My wife - as the 
>director of a Max Planck Institute in Nijmegen - wanted house where she 
>was seen as the hostess rather than the cook.

Is the gas in the UK real natural gas? Do they still make that
dreadful coal gas? In the old murder mysteries, people would turn on
the gas lights, or stick pretty ladies' heads in unlighted ovens, to
kill them from the CO.

Ours burns very clean, nice blue flame. I can wipe down the walls and
see no soot.

Our main wall crud is a few spider webs. We have a puffy thing on a
long stick to get those every few months. Since they catch and eat
other bugs, we don't kill the spiders themselves.


John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#895810

FromJan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
Date2026-04-21 17:11 +0000
Message-ID<10s8b4c$1lhth$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#895808
>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 21:35:48 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>wrote:
>
>>On 21/04/2026 5:07 am, john larkin wrote:
>>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 03:35:20 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 21/04/2026 12:55 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2026 10:07:05 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2026 17:12:44 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From:
>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/04/260417085404.htm
>>>>>>> Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers
>>>>>>> Your тАЬmagicтА? sponge might be quietly adding trillions of microplastics to the planet.
>>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>>> April 18, 2026
>>>>>>> Source:
>>>>>>> American Chemical Society
>>>>>>> Summary:
>>>>>>> That тАЬmagicтА? sponge under your sink may be hiding an environmental downside. While melamine sponges are famous for
>>>>>>> effortlessly scrubbing away stubborn stains, they slowly break down as you use them shedding tiny plastic fibers that wash into
>>>>>>> water systems. Researchers estimate that globally, these sponges could release over a trillion microplastic fibers every month,
>>>>>>> potentially entering the food chain and affecting wildlife.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More to the point, they're added to the immediate environment
>>>>>> without planetary dilution or dispersal . . . .where you live,
>>>>>> eat and breath.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As do those from all domestic sources . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> You are allowed to use natural sponges or cotton rags for washing up.
>>>>
>>>> They don't work all that well, but we are used to the side-effects.
>>>>
>>>>> And to dress in all natural fabrics.
>>>>
>>>> It is an expensive luxury.
>>>>
>>>>> And cook over a wood or dung fire.
>>>>
>>>> They are remarkably difficult to control. Electric ovens do offer stable
>>>> and predictable temperatures, and a microwave oven heats food rapidly
>>>> and uniformly, if that's what you want.
>>>>
>>>> Gas cookers have a nasty habit of leaving a layer of soot on every
>>>> surface in the kitchen, and that probably includes your lungs.
>>> 
>>> I never noticed any soot or gunk from our natural-gas range. A good
>>> non-smoking oil is recommended for frying, pecan or sesame. Cheap oils
>>> like corn or canola smoke.
>>> 
>>> We have fan vents over the range too.
>>
>>The problem was notorious in the UK. Extractor fans are rare there, and 
>>not easy to fit. We did have one over the island cooker in our big house 
>>in the Netherlands, and the fumes collected above the electric cooker 
>>got piped up to the ceiling and piped across to an outside wall, but we 
>>spent a lot of money reworking the kitchen and dining area. That house 
>>had been originally been built in 1936 for a prominent member of the 
>>Dutch national socialist party, on the foundations of a much older farm 
>>house, so the reworking was pretty much essential. My wife - as the 
>>director of a Max Planck Institute in Nijmegen - wanted house where she 
>>was seen as the hostess rather than the cook.
>
>Is the gas in the UK real natural gas? Do they still make that
>dreadful coal gas? In the old murder mysteries, people would turn on
>the gas lights, or stick pretty ladies' heads in unlighted ovens, to
>kill them from the CO.
>
>Ours burns very clean, nice blue flame. I can wipe down the walls and
>see no soot.
>
>Our main wall crud is a few spider webs. We have a puffy thing on a
>long stick to get those every few months. Since they catch and eat
>other bugs, we don't kill the spiders themselves.

We have gas too, for heating.
It used to be here in the ground,.
Digging the gas caused earthquakes that damaged homes and people started crying for compensation.
So most of the gas fields here are now closed
Europe could get cheap gas from Russia via the Northstream2 pipeline
But US CIA clowns like 'lensky blew that pipeline up
so we had to buy US shipped gas.

Important point with gas central heating is that you ALSO need electricity for the system to work, pumps etc.
This house is now equipped with double insulated walls.
You can leave the gas heating off for large parts of the year, still need it for hot water when showering.
Many years ago as a kid we hat an electric hot water tank that always had the right temperature and a big oil tank buried in the garden for heating.
Even longer ago we had coal, even a big coal heater in the classrooms in primary school in Amsterdam.


I have 2 microwave ovens, one a big Whirlpool (make name) with electric oven and grill and all sorts of programs
using it all the time.

On the other hand just recently (likely due to all the world tension about fuel) digging
for more gas in the Northsea just a few miles away seems to have been given the go-ahead here if I understood the news right.
 https://www.dutchnews.nl/2026/04/second-north-sea-gas-well-takes-production-to-1-billion-m3/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#895816

Fromjohn larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
Date2026-04-21 10:52 -0700
Message-ID<8rdfuk1vg4i3d2e7mgen5sdhjvboinkhcc@4ax.com>
In reply to#895810
On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 17:11:39 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>>On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 21:35:48 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 21/04/2026 5:07 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 03:35:20 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 21/04/2026 12:55 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2026 10:07:05 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2026 17:12:44 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From:
>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/04/260417085404.htm
>>>>>>>> Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers
>>>>>>>> Your “magic� sponge might be quietly adding trillions of microplastics to the planet.
>>>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>>>> April 18, 2026
>>>>>>>> Source:
>>>>>>>> American Chemical Society
>>>>>>>> Summary:
>>>>>>>> That “magic� sponge under your sink may be hiding an environmental downside. While melamine sponges are famous for
>>>>>>>> effortlessly scrubbing away stubborn stains, they slowly break down as you use them shedding tiny plastic fibers that wash into
>>>>>>>> water systems. Researchers estimate that globally, these sponges could release over a trillion microplastic fibers every month,
>>>>>>>> potentially entering the food chain and affecting wildlife.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> More to the point, they're added to the immediate environment
>>>>>>> without planetary dilution or dispersal . . . .where you live,
>>>>>>> eat and breath.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As do those from all domestic sources . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are allowed to use natural sponges or cotton rags for washing up.
>>>>>
>>>>> They don't work all that well, but we are used to the side-effects.
>>>>>
>>>>>> And to dress in all natural fabrics.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is an expensive luxury.
>>>>>
>>>>>> And cook over a wood or dung fire.
>>>>>
>>>>> They are remarkably difficult to control. Electric ovens do offer stable
>>>>> and predictable temperatures, and a microwave oven heats food rapidly
>>>>> and uniformly, if that's what you want.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gas cookers have a nasty habit of leaving a layer of soot on every
>>>>> surface in the kitchen, and that probably includes your lungs.
>>>> 
>>>> I never noticed any soot or gunk from our natural-gas range. A good
>>>> non-smoking oil is recommended for frying, pecan or sesame. Cheap oils
>>>> like corn or canola smoke.
>>>> 
>>>> We have fan vents over the range too.
>>>
>>>The problem was notorious in the UK. Extractor fans are rare there, and 
>>>not easy to fit. We did have one over the island cooker in our big house 
>>>in the Netherlands, and the fumes collected above the electric cooker 
>>>got piped up to the ceiling and piped across to an outside wall, but we 
>>>spent a lot of money reworking the kitchen and dining area. That house 
>>>had been originally been built in 1936 for a prominent member of the 
>>>Dutch national socialist party, on the foundations of a much older farm 
>>>house, so the reworking was pretty much essential. My wife - as the 
>>>director of a Max Planck Institute in Nijmegen - wanted house where she 
>>>was seen as the hostess rather than the cook.
>>
>>Is the gas in the UK real natural gas? Do they still make that
>>dreadful coal gas? In the old murder mysteries, people would turn on
>>the gas lights, or stick pretty ladies' heads in unlighted ovens, to
>>kill them from the CO.
>>
>>Ours burns very clean, nice blue flame. I can wipe down the walls and
>>see no soot.
>>
>>Our main wall crud is a few spider webs. We have a puffy thing on a
>>long stick to get those every few months. Since they catch and eat
>>other bugs, we don't kill the spiders themselves.
>
>We have gas too, for heating.
>It used to be here in the ground,.
>Digging the gas caused earthquakes that damaged homes and people started crying for compensation.

I remember the bumper sticker in Louisiana:

LET THE BASTARDS FREEZE IN THE DARK

>So most of the gas fields here are now closed
>Europe could get cheap gas from Russia via the Northstream2 pipeline
>But US CIA clowns like 'lensky blew that pipeline up
>so we had to buy US shipped gas.

The Ukranians are assumed to have blown up the pipeline. Well, Russia
attacked them first.

>
>Important point with gas central heating is that you ALSO need electricity for the system to work, pumps etc.
>This house is now equipped with double insulated walls.
>You can leave the gas heating off for large parts of the year, still need it for hot water when showering.
>Many years ago as a kid we hat an electric hot water tank that always had the right temperature and a big oil tank buried in the garden for heating.
>Even longer ago we had coal, even a big coal heater in the classrooms in primary school in Amsterdam.

Our water heater doesn't need electric power. The control is powered
by a thermocouple.

We do need power for the fan on the gas central heat, but it doesn't
get very cold here.

>
>
>I have 2 microwave ovens, one a big Whirlpool (make name) with electric oven and grill and all sorts of programs
>using it all the time.
>
>On the other hand just recently (likely due to all the world tension about fuel) digging
>for more gas in the Northsea just a few miles away seems to have been given the go-ahead here if I understood the news right.
> https://www.dutchnews.nl/2026/04/second-north-sea-gas-well-takes-production-to-1-billion-m3/
>

Europe had better ease off on the greenie thing.


John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#895832

FromJan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
Date2026-04-22 07:21 +0000
Message-ID<10s9ssu$22rv4$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#895816
>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 17:11:39 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>>>On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 21:35:48 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 21/04/2026 5:07 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 03:35:20 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 21/04/2026 12:55 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2026 10:07:05 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2026 17:12:44 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From:
>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/04/260417085404.htm
>>>>>>>>> Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers
>>>>>>>>> Your тАЬmagicтА? sponge might be quietly adding trillions of microplastics to the planet.
>>>>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>>>>> April 18, 2026
>>>>>>>>> Source:
>>>>>>>>> American Chemical Society
>>>>>>>>> Summary:
>>>>>>>>> That тАЬmagicтА? sponge under your sink may be hiding an environmental downside. While melamine sponges are famous for
>>>>>>>>> effortlessly scrubbing away stubborn stains, they slowly break down as you use them shedding tiny plastic fibers that
>>>>>>>>> wash into
>>>>>>>>> water systems. Researchers estimate that globally, these sponges could release over a trillion microplastic fibers
>>>>>>>>> every month,
>>>>>>>>> potentially entering the food chain and affecting wildlife.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> More to the point, they're added to the immediate environment
>>>>>>>> without planetary dilution or dispersal . . . .where you live,
>>>>>>>> eat and breath.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As do those from all domestic sources . . .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are allowed to use natural sponges or cotton rags for washing up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They don't work all that well, but we are used to the side-effects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And to dress in all natural fabrics.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is an expensive luxury.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And cook over a wood or dung fire.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They are remarkably difficult to control. Electric ovens do offer stable
>>>>>> and predictable temperatures, and a microwave oven heats food rapidly
>>>>>> and uniformly, if that's what you want.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gas cookers have a nasty habit of leaving a layer of soot on every
>>>>>> surface in the kitchen, and that probably includes your lungs.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I never noticed any soot or gunk from our natural-gas range. A good
>>>>> non-smoking oil is recommended for frying, pecan or sesame. Cheap oils
>>>>> like corn or canola smoke.
>>>>> 
>>>>> We have fan vents over the range too.
>>>>
>>>>The problem was notorious in the UK. Extractor fans are rare there, and 
>>>>not easy to fit. We did have one over the island cooker in our big house 
>>>>in the Netherlands, and the fumes collected above the electric cooker 
>>>>got piped up to the ceiling and piped across to an outside wall, but we 
>>>>spent a lot of money reworking the kitchen and dining area. That house 
>>>>had been originally been built in 1936 for a prominent member of the 
>>>>Dutch national socialist party, on the foundations of a much older farm 
>>>>house, so the reworking was pretty much essential. My wife - as the 
>>>>director of a Max Planck Institute in Nijmegen - wanted house where she 
>>>>was seen as the hostess rather than the cook.
>>>
>>>Is the gas in the UK real natural gas? Do they still make that
>>>dreadful coal gas? In the old murder mysteries, people would turn on
>>>the gas lights, or stick pretty ladies' heads in unlighted ovens, to
>>>kill them from the CO.
>>>
>>>Ours burns very clean, nice blue flame. I can wipe down the walls and
>>>see no soot.
>>>
>>>Our main wall crud is a few spider webs. We have a puffy thing on a
>>>long stick to get those every few months. Since they catch and eat
>>>other bugs, we don't kill the spiders themselves.
>>
>>We have gas too, for heating.
>>It used to be here in the ground,.
>>Digging the gas caused earthquakes that damaged homes and people started crying for compensation.
>
>I remember the bumper sticker in Louisiana:
>
>LET THE BASTARDS FREEZE IN THE DARK
>
>>So most of the gas fields here are now closed
>>Europe could get cheap gas from Russia via the Northstream2 pipeline
>>But US CIA clowns like 'lensky blew that pipeline up
>>so we had to buy US shipped gas.
>
>The Ukranians are assumed to have blown up the pipeline. Well, Russia
>attacked them first.
>
>>
>>Important point with gas central heating is that you ALSO need electricity for the system to work, pumps etc.
>>This house is now equipped with double insulated walls.
>>You can leave the gas heating off for large parts of the year, still need it for hot water when showering.
>>Many years ago as a kid we hat an electric hot water tank that always had the right temperature and a big oil tank buried in
>>the garden for heating.
>>Even longer ago we had coal, even a big coal heater in the classrooms in primary school in Amsterdam.
>
>Our water heater doesn't need electric power. The control is powered
>by a thermocouple.
>
>We do need power for the fan on the gas central heat, but it doesn't
>get very cold here.

Does it not use a pump for the heated water and a normal electronic thermostat in the living room?
Mine does, and it shows temperature and setpoint on an LCD.


>>I have 2 microwave ovens, one a big Whirlpool (make name) with electric oven and grill and all sorts of programs
>>using it all the time.
>>
>>On the other hand just recently (likely due to all the world tension about fuel) digging
>>for more gas in the Northsea just a few miles away seems to have been given the go-ahead here if I understood the news right.
>> https://www.dutchnews.nl/2026/04/second-north-sea-gas-well-takes-production-to-1-billion-m3/
>>
>
>Europe had better ease off on the greenie thing.

I agree with that, leave it to the greens and we will all live in tents and caves and burn wood, or just freeze.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#895842

Fromjohn larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
Date2026-04-22 10:13 -0700
Message-ID<lsvhuk545ssdgt4h2nbuv640odjr3plh6b@4ax.com>
In reply to#895832
On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 07:21:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>>On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 17:11:39 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>>>>On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 21:35:48 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 21/04/2026 5:07 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 03:35:20 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 21/04/2026 12:55 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2026 10:07:05 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2026 17:12:44 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From:
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/04/260417085404.htm
>>>>>>>>>> Common cleaning sponge found to release trillions of microplastic fibers
>>>>>>>>>> Your “magic� sponge might be quietly adding trillions of microplastics to the planet.
>>>>>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>>>>>> April 18, 2026
>>>>>>>>>> Source:
>>>>>>>>>> American Chemical Society
>>>>>>>>>> Summary:
>>>>>>>>>> That “magic� sponge under your sink may be hiding an environmental downside. While melamine sponges are famous for
>>>>>>>>>> effortlessly scrubbing away stubborn stains, they slowly break down as you use them shedding tiny plastic fibers that
>>>>>>>>>> wash into
>>>>>>>>>> water systems. Researchers estimate that globally, these sponges could release over a trillion microplastic fibers
>>>>>>>>>> every month,
>>>>>>>>>> potentially entering the food chain and affecting wildlife.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> More to the point, they're added to the immediate environment
>>>>>>>>> without planetary dilution or dispersal . . . .where you live,
>>>>>>>>> eat and breath.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As do those from all domestic sources . . .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are allowed to use natural sponges or cotton rags for washing up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They don't work all that well, but we are used to the side-effects.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And to dress in all natural fabrics.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is an expensive luxury.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And cook over a wood or dung fire.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They are remarkably difficult to control. Electric ovens do offer stable
>>>>>>> and predictable temperatures, and a microwave oven heats food rapidly
>>>>>>> and uniformly, if that's what you want.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gas cookers have a nasty habit of leaving a layer of soot on every
>>>>>>> surface in the kitchen, and that probably includes your lungs.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I never noticed any soot or gunk from our natural-gas range. A good
>>>>>> non-smoking oil is recommended for frying, pecan or sesame. Cheap oils
>>>>>> like corn or canola smoke.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> We have fan vents over the range too.
>>>>>
>>>>>The problem was notorious in the UK. Extractor fans are rare there, and 
>>>>>not easy to fit. We did have one over the island cooker in our big house 
>>>>>in the Netherlands, and the fumes collected above the electric cooker 
>>>>>got piped up to the ceiling and piped across to an outside wall, but we 
>>>>>spent a lot of money reworking the kitchen and dining area. That house 
>>>>>had been originally been built in 1936 for a prominent member of the 
>>>>>Dutch national socialist party, on the foundations of a much older farm 
>>>>>house, so the reworking was pretty much essential. My wife - as the 
>>>>>director of a Max Planck Institute in Nijmegen - wanted house where she 
>>>>>was seen as the hostess rather than the cook.
>>>>
>>>>Is the gas in the UK real natural gas? Do they still make that
>>>>dreadful coal gas? In the old murder mysteries, people would turn on
>>>>the gas lights, or stick pretty ladies' heads in unlighted ovens, to
>>>>kill them from the CO.
>>>>
>>>>Ours burns very clean, nice blue flame. I can wipe down the walls and
>>>>see no soot.
>>>>
>>>>Our main wall crud is a few spider webs. We have a puffy thing on a
>>>>long stick to get those every few months. Since they catch and eat
>>>>other bugs, we don't kill the spiders themselves.
>>>
>>>We have gas too, for heating.
>>>It used to be here in the ground,.
>>>Digging the gas caused earthquakes that damaged homes and people started crying for compensation.
>>
>>I remember the bumper sticker in Louisiana:
>>
>>LET THE BASTARDS FREEZE IN THE DARK
>>
>>>So most of the gas fields here are now closed
>>>Europe could get cheap gas from Russia via the Northstream2 pipeline
>>>But US CIA clowns like 'lensky blew that pipeline up
>>>so we had to buy US shipped gas.
>>
>>The Ukranians are assumed to have blown up the pipeline. Well, Russia
>>attacked them first.
>>
>>>
>>>Important point with gas central heating is that you ALSO need electricity for the system to work, pumps etc.
>>>This house is now equipped with double insulated walls.
>>>You can leave the gas heating off for large parts of the year, still need it for hot water when showering.
>>>Many years ago as a kid we hat an electric hot water tank that always had the right temperature and a big oil tank buried in
>>>the garden for heating.
>>>Even longer ago we had coal, even a big coal heater in the classrooms in primary school in Amsterdam.
>>
>>Our water heater doesn't need electric power. The control is powered
>>by a thermocouple.
>>
>>We do need power for the fan on the gas central heat, but it doesn't
>>get very cold here.
>
>Does it not use a pump for the heated water and a normal electronic thermostat in the living room?

The water heater is gas fired, and the water pressure comes into the
house from the street. SF has gravity-feed reservoirs so we have hot
and cold water pressure even if there is a big power failure.

House heat is gas fired and forced-air, so that needs electricity.
Most new houses have "radiant heat" which needs electricity too.

>Mine does, and it shows temperature and setpoint on an LCD.

Yeah, we have one of those complex digital thermosats with a lot of
buttons and states. I plan to replace it with a classic dial unit.


>
>
>>>I have 2 microwave ovens, one a big Whirlpool (make name) with electric oven and grill and all sorts of programs
>>>using it all the time.
>>>
>>>On the other hand just recently (likely due to all the world tension about fuel) digging
>>>for more gas in the Northsea just a few miles away seems to have been given the go-ahead here if I understood the news right.
>>> https://www.dutchnews.nl/2026/04/second-north-sea-gas-well-takes-production-to-1-billion-m3/
>>>
>>
>>Europe had better ease off on the greenie thing.
>
>I agree with that, leave it to the greens and we will all live in tents and caves and burn wood, or just freeze.

Europe is de-industrializing and de-civilizing. Cultural suicide.

What's surprising is that ginormous semi fabs are being built in the
US South.



John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#895851

FromJan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
Date2026-04-23 06:49 +0000
Message-ID<10scfeh$2r7me$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#895842
>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:

>Europe is de-industrializing and de-civilizing. Cultural suicide.
>
>What's surprising is that ginormous semi fabs are being built in the US South.

Na, it is industrializing its military related industry...

It is about time we dump that noisy F35 'merry can
and build a better one for ourselves.

Save money  creates jobs  and scares the shit out of precedent trumpoline

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#895860

Fromjohn larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
Date2026-04-23 11:07 -0700
Message-ID<9inkukpbqsdqrmtv42aonlpcubmk944bp5@4ax.com>
In reply to#895851
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 06:49:52 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>>john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>
>>Europe is de-industrializing and de-civilizing. Cultural suicide.
>>
>>What's surprising is that ginormous semi fabs are being built in the US South.
>
>Na, it is industrializing its military related industry...

TSMC and Intel aren't much in the way of military weapons builders.

>
>It is about time we dump that noisy F35 'merry can
>and build a better one for ourselves.

Go for it. But I suspect the age of dogfighting $200M manned jet
fighters may be over.

It took a giant project to save that guy who bailed out over Iran. A
crashed drone wouldn't need a big rescue operation.

Ukraine is a pioneer in remote warfare.


John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics

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#895853

FromBill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
Date2026-04-23 17:08 +1000
Message-ID<10scghg$2qlkn$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#895842
On 23/04/2026 3:13 am, john larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 07:21:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
> wrote:
> 
>>> john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 17:11:39 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 21:35:48 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 21/04/2026 5:07 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 03:35:20 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 21/04/2026 12:55 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2026 10:07:05 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2026 17:12:44 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:

<snip>

>> Does it not use a pump for the heated water and a normal electronic thermostat in the living room?
> 
> The water heater is gas fired, and the water pressure comes into the
> house from the street. SF has gravity-feed reservoirs so we have hot
> and cold water pressure even if there is a big power failure.
> 
> House heat is gas fired and forced-air, so that needs electricity.
> Most new houses have "radiant heat" which needs electricity too.
> 
>> Mine does, and it shows temperature and setpoint on an LCD.
> 
> Yeah, we have one of those complex digital thermosats with a lot of
> buttons and states. I plan to replace it with a classic dial unit.

You'd be wiser to get educated to the point where you could understand 
the more complicated display, but wisdom is hard to acquire,

>>>> I have 2 microwave ovens, one a big Whirlpool (make name) with electric oven and grill and all sorts of programs
>>>> using it all the time.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand just recently (likely due to all the world tension about fuel) digging
>>>> for more gas in the Northsea just a few miles away seems to have been given the go-ahead here if I understood the news right.
>>>> https://www.dutchnews.nl/2026/04/second-north-sea-gas-well-takes-production-to-1-billion-m3/
>>>
>>> Europe had better ease off on the greenie thing.
>>
>> I agree with that, leave it to the greens and we will all live in tents and caves and burn wood, or just freeze.

Those "greens" are are cartoon invention of the climate change denial 
propaganda machine. China is investing hugely in wind an solar power to 
the point where their carbon emissions are starting got fall.

They aren't starving or living in cave, and their BYD electric cars with 
their blade batteries are wipi8ng the floor with Tesla.

> Europe is de-industrializing and de-civilizing. Cultural suicide.

Only an under-educated Americasn could be silly enough to make a claim 
like that.

> What's surprising is that ginormous semi fabs are being built in the
> US South.

By Taiwanese companies. With Trump's primitive ideas about economics, he 
can be persuaded to pay for them.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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#895861

Fromjohn larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
Date2026-04-23 11:14 -0700
Message-ID<kvnkuklai22brtaaeq8aqfkulqviqil88c@4ax.com>
In reply to#895853
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 17:08:22 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
wrote:

>On 23/04/2026 3:13 am, john larkin wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 07:21:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>>> john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 17:11:39 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 21:35:48 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 21/04/2026 5:07 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 03:35:20 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 21/04/2026 12:55 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2026 10:07:05 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2026 17:12:44 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>>> Does it not use a pump for the heated water and a normal electronic thermostat in the living room?
>> 
>> The water heater is gas fired, and the water pressure comes into the
>> house from the street. SF has gravity-feed reservoirs so we have hot
>> and cold water pressure even if there is a big power failure.
>> 
>> House heat is gas fired and forced-air, so that needs electricity.
>> Most new houses have "radiant heat" which needs electricity too.
>> 
>>> Mine does, and it shows temperature and setpoint on an LCD.
>> 
>> Yeah, we have one of those complex digital thermosats with a lot of
>> buttons and states. I plan to replace it with a classic dial unit.
>
>You'd be wiser to get educated to the point where you could understand 
>the more complicated display, but wisdom is hard to acquire,

Why care about states and push a bunch or buttons incrementally and
look at a cheap LCD in a dark hallway, when you can twist a knob a
couple of degrees.

I think and hope that cars are going back to analog controls, knobs to
turn, instead of crazy complex touch screens. 

>
>>>>> I have 2 microwave ovens, one a big Whirlpool (make name) with electric oven and grill and all sorts of programs
>>>>> using it all the time.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the other hand just recently (likely due to all the world tension about fuel) digging
>>>>> for more gas in the Northsea just a few miles away seems to have been given the go-ahead here if I understood the news right.
>>>>> https://www.dutchnews.nl/2026/04/second-north-sea-gas-well-takes-production-to-1-billion-m3/
>>>>
>>>> Europe had better ease off on the greenie thing.
>>>
>>> I agree with that, leave it to the greens and we will all live in tents and caves and burn wood, or just freeze.
>
>Those "greens" are are cartoon invention of the climate change denial 
>propaganda machine. China is investing hugely in wind an solar power to 
>the point where their carbon emissions are starting got fall.
>
>They aren't starving or living in cave, and their BYD electric cars with 
>their blade batteries are wipi8ng the floor with Tesla.
>
>> Europe is de-industrializing and de-civilizing. Cultural suicide.
>
>Only an under-educated Americasn could be silly enough to make a claim 
>like that.

Or someone who keeps up with the news.

>
>> What's surprising is that ginormous semi fabs are being built in the
>> US South.
>
>By Taiwanese companies. With Trump's primitive ideas about economics, he 
>can be persuaded to pay for them.

Intel is not Taiwanese. But TSMC building a fab in the US South is
interesting. It's not going to be built in Europe or Australia.

Or in Taiwan.


John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#895864

FromGerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
Date2026-04-23 21:15 +0200
Message-ID<10sdr57$q602$1@solani.org>
In reply to#895861
Am 23.04.26 um 20:14 schrieb john larkin:
> On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 17:08:22 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 23/04/2026 3:13 am, john larkin wrote:
>>> On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 07:21:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>> wrote:

.......

>> Those "greens" are are cartoon invention of the climate change denial
>> propaganda machine. China is investing hugely in wind an solar power to
>> the point where their carbon emissions are starting got fall.

As of last year, they were building 300 coal power generating stations
worldwide. They build everything that can be sold for money.

Last month, Trump paid for NOT using a mostly finished wind farm
on your east coast.

>> By Taiwanese companies. With Trump's primitive ideas about economics, he
>> can be persuaded to pay for them.
> 
> Intel is not Taiwanese. But TSMC building a fab in the US South is
> interesting. It's not going to be built in Europe or Australia.

Did you note their new design center in Munich, or the new
fab in Dresden, together with Bosch, NXP and Infineon?


In medieval times, Bavaria was wine land. Must have been a
few degrees hotter  before they had to switch to beer. They
even had to import beer know how from the North Sea coast.

We in Europe will probably watch the news on the TV from
the tornado avenues in the US south. You'll have our compassion,
but that's Darwin at work.

Gerhard

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#895866

Fromjohn larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
Date2026-04-23 12:26 -0700
Message-ID<egskuk5l6tpm9jkql415qq18pkkfplt61m@4ax.com>
In reply to#895864
On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 21:15:51 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
wrote:

>Am 23.04.26 um 20:14 schrieb john larkin:
>> On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 17:08:22 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 23/04/2026 3:13 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 07:21:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>
>.......
>
>>> Those "greens" are are cartoon invention of the climate change denial
>>> propaganda machine. China is investing hugely in wind an solar power to
>>> the point where their carbon emissions are starting got fall.
>
>As of last year, they were building 300 coal power generating stations
>worldwide. They build everything that can be sold for money.
>
>Last month, Trump paid for NOT using a mostly finished wind farm
>on your east coast.

Well, the business model for wind farms is being paid for not
generating electricity.


John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#895865

FromBill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
Date2026-04-24 05:18 +1000
Message-ID<10sdra3$3963p$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#895861
On 24/04/2026 4:14 am, john larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Apr 2026 17:08:22 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 23/04/2026 3:13 am, john larkin wrote:
>>> On Wed, 22 Apr 2026 07:21:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 17:11:39 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 21:35:48 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 21/04/2026 5:07 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2026 03:35:20 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 21/04/2026 12:55 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2026 10:07:05 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2026 17:12:44 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> Does it not use a pump for the heated water and a normal electronic thermostat in the living room?
>>>
>>> The water heater is gas fired, and the water pressure comes into the
>>> house from the street. SF has gravity-feed reservoirs so we have hot
>>> and cold water pressure even if there is a big power failure.
>>>
>>> House heat is gas fired and forced-air, so that needs electricity.
>>> Most new houses have "radiant heat" which needs electricity too.
>>>
>>>> Mine does, and it shows temperature and setpoint on an LCD.
>>>
>>> Yeah, we have one of those complex digital thermosats with a lot of
>>> buttons and states. I plan to replace it with a classic dial unit.
>>
>> You'd be wiser to get educated to the point where you could understand
>> the more complicated display, but wisdom is hard to acquire,
> 
> Why care about states and push a bunch or buttons incrementally and
> look at a cheap LCD in a dark hallway, when you can twist a knob a
> couple of degrees.

You can back-light an LCD when necessary. Twisting a knob is a more 
expensive option than pushing up and down sensing pads.

> I think and hope that cars are going back to analog controls, knobs to
> turn, instead of crazy complex touch screens.

>>>>>> I have 2 microwave ovens, one a big Whirlpool (make name) with electric oven and grill and all sorts of programs
>>>>>> using it all the time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the other hand just recently (likely due to all the world tension about fuel) digging
>>>>>> for more gas in the Northsea just a few miles away seems to have been given the go-ahead here if I understood the news right.
>>>>>> https://www.dutchnews.nl/2026/04/second-north-sea-gas-well-takes-production-to-1-billion-m3/
>>>>>
>>>>> Europe had better ease off on the greenie thing.
>>>>
>>>> I agree with that, leave it to the greens and we will all live in tents and caves and burn wood, or just freeze.
>>
>> Those "greens" are are cartoon invention of the climate change denial
>> propaganda machine. China is investing hugely in wind an solar power to
>> the point where their carbon emissions are starting got fall.
>>
>> They aren't starving or living in cave, and their BYD electric cars with
>> their blade batteries are wiping the floor with Tesla.
>>
>>> Europe is de-industrializing and de-civilizing. Cultural suicide.
>>
>> Only an under-educated American could be silly enough to make a claim
>> like that.
> 
> Or someone who keeps up with the news.

The news that is being delivered to Americans to induce a particular 
state of mind - one that is happier with the American situation than a 
better-informed citizen might be.

>>> What's surprising is that ginormous semi fabs are being built in the
>>> US South.
>>
>> By Taiwanese companies. With Trump's primitive ideas about economics, he
>> can be persuaded to pay for them.
> 
> Intel is not Taiwanese. 

It's not cutting edge either, and hasn't been for a while.

> But TSMC building a fab in the US South is
> interesting. It's not going to be built in Europe or Australia.

Europe has it own fabs. Australia is too small a market to support a 
modern fab. We did have our own fab in the 1980's. Cambridge Instruments 
sold them one of the EBMF 10.5 electron-beam microfabricators that I'd 
worked on. When the reps came back they told me than my younger brother 
had negotiated the $500 million contract between AWA and Lend-Lease to 
build the structure. He worked for Lend-Lease before he went off to run 
the Sydney Olympic games.

The fab was still running until about 2020 when the lease on the site 
ran out.

> Or in Taiwan.

Taiwan already has a TSMC fab. Why would they need another?

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