Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #395718 > unrolled thread

h the Planck message in a bottle

Started byJohn Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com>
First post2016-10-15 07:11 -0700
Last post2016-11-26 09:50 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 111 — 20 participants

Back to article view | Back to sci.physics.relativity


Contents

  h the Planck message in a bottle John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-10-15 07:11 -0700
    Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Albert2 <Alber@2.invalid> - 2016-11-04 13:38 +0100
      Re: h the Planck message in a bottle mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-11-04 05:53 -0700
        Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Albert2 <Alber@2.invalid> - 2016-11-04 15:33 +0100
          Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-04 16:15 +0100
            Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-11-04 12:53 -0500
              Re: h the Planck message in a bottle "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-04 11:20 -0700
              Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-04 19:25 +0100
              Re: h the Planck message in a bottle John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-11-12 18:47 -0800
                Re: h the Planck message in a bottle jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-11-13 23:28 -0800
                  Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-14 08:44 +0100
                    Re: h the Planck message in a bottle John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-11-15 22:22 -0800
                      Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-16 07:36 +0100
                        Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-17 07:23 +0100
                          Re: h the Planck message in a bottle John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-11-17 02:50 -0800
                            Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-11-17 09:11 -0600
                              Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Edwin Grünner <edwgr@menckensite.org> - 2016-11-17 22:03 +0000
                                Re: h the Planck message in a bottle John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-11-17 19:25 -0800
                                  Re: h the Planck message in a bottle "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-17 19:39 -0800
                                Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-11-17 22:22 -0600
                                  Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Hank Barco <hankbarco@hankbarco.org> - 2016-11-18 21:35 +0000
                                    Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 15:58 -0600
                                      Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Hank Barco <hankbarco@hankbarco.org> - 2016-11-18 22:04 +0000
                                        Re: h the Planck message in a bottle John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 23:06 -0800
                                          Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-11-19 11:25 +0000
                                            Re: h the Planck message in a bottle John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-11-19 08:59 -0800
                                              Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-11-20 00:19 +0000
                                                Re: h the Planck message in a bottle John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-11-20 10:27 -0800
                                                  Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-11-20 22:37 +0000
                                                    Re: h the Planck message in a bottle John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-11-20 16:55 -0800
                                                      Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-11-21 05:26 +0000
                                                        Re: h the Planck message in a bottle John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-11-21 00:23 -0800
                                                          Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-11-21 09:20 +0000
                                                            Re: h the Planck message in a bottle John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-11-21 03:08 -0800
                                                              Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-11-21 13:09 +0000
                                                                Re: h the Planck message in a bottle John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-11-26 12:17 -0800
                                              Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-21 07:40 +0100
                                                Re: h the Planck message in a bottle John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-11-20 23:56 -0800
                                                  Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-21 09:07 +0100
                                                    Re: h the Planck message in a bottle John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-11-21 00:48 -0800
                                                      Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-21 11:09 +0100
                                                        Re: h the Planck message in a bottle John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-11-21 03:13 -0800
                                                          Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-21 12:45 +0100
                                                            Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Maryann Tonn <libradaz@libradazert.info> - 2016-11-21 12:16 +0000
                                                              Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-21 13:29 +0100
                                                                Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Maryann Tonn <libradaz@libradazert.info> - 2016-11-21 12:44 +0000
                                                          Re: h the Planck message in a bottle John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-11-26 11:34 -0800
                                                            Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-26 22:15 +0100
                                                              Re: h the Planck message in a bottle John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-11-26 14:27 -0800
                                                                Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Shayne Crownover <vrrrnveeaeoowSy@vrrrnveeae.owSy.vrr> - 2016-11-26 22:33 +0000
                                                                Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-26 23:54 +0100
                                                                  Re: h the Planck message in a bottle John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-11-26 17:44 -0800
                                          Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-11-19 19:14 +0000
                                        Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-11-21 11:35 -0600
                                          Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Maryann Tonn <libradaz@libradazert.info> - 2016-11-21 19:18 +0000
                                          Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-11-22 09:39 +0000
                        Re: h the Planck message in a bottle jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-11-17 00:22 -0800
                          Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-11-17 09:57 -0600
                            Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-11-17 10:02 -0600
                              Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-11-18 04:05 +0000
                                Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 07:36 -0600
                                  Re: h the Planck message in a bottle mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-11-18 05:56 -0800
                                  Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-11-18 18:49 +0000
                              Re: h the Planck message in a bottle jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-11-18 00:02 -0800
                                Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 07:40 -0600
                                  Re: h the Planck message in a bottle jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-11-21 00:53 -0800
                                    Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-11-21 08:14 -0600
                                      Re: h the Planck message in a bottle jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-11-22 02:06 -0800
                                        Re: h the Planck message in a bottle mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-11-22 02:27 -0800
                                        Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-11-22 12:08 +0000
                                          Re: h the Planck message in a bottle jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-11-23 06:13 -0800
                                            Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-11-24 05:54 +0000
                                              Re: h the Planck message in a bottle jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-11-24 07:01 -0800
                                                Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-11-24 20:01 +0000
                                                Re: h the Planck message in a bottle John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-11-26 11:10 -0800
                                        Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-11-26 09:41 -0600
                                          Re: h the Planck message in a bottle "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-26 07:59 -0800
                                          Re: h the Planck message in a bottle jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-11-27 04:50 -0800
                            Re: h the Planck message in a bottle jaymoseley@hotmail.com - 2016-11-18 00:15 -0800
                          Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-20 21:50 +0100
              Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Albert2 <Alber@2.invalid> - 2016-11-25 22:53 +0100
                Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-26 08:10 +0100
                  Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-26 08:14 +0100
                  Re: h the Planck message in a bottle moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-11-26 12:26 +0000
                    Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-26 22:07 +0100
          Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-11-04 17:35 +0100
            Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Albert2 <Alber@2.invalid> - 2016-11-04 21:36 +0100
              Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-11-04 22:03 +0100
                Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Albert2 <Alber@2.invalid> - 2016-11-07 22:33 +0100
                  Re: h the Planck message in a bottle mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-11-07 22:58 -0800
        Re: h the Planck message in a bottle moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-11-04 14:41 +0000
          Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-11-04 17:36 +0100
            Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-04 10:42 -0700
              Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-11-04 22:00 +0100
          Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Albert2 <Alber@2.invalid> - 2016-11-04 21:46 +0100
    Re: h the Planck message in a bottle numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-11-13 12:54 -0800
    Re: h the Planck message in a bottle numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-11-13 12:59 -0800
    Re: h the Planck message in a bottle numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-11-19 13:47 -0800
    Re: h the Planck message in a bottle numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-11-19 13:50 -0800
    Re: h the Planck message in a bottle numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-11-19 13:51 -0800
    Re: h the Planck message in a bottle numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-11-19 14:45 -0800
    Re: h the Planck message in a bottle numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-11-19 14:47 -0800
      Re: h the Planck message in a bottle "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-19 15:11 -0800
    Re: h the Planck message in a bottle numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-11-19 15:30 -0800
      Re: h the Planck message in a bottle "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-19 15:42 -0800
    Re: h the Planck message in a bottle numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-11-19 16:35 -0800
    Re: h the Planck message in a bottle numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-11-19 16:35 -0800
    Re: h the Planck message in a bottle nero <oldogf@yahoo.it> - 2016-11-23 23:37 -0800
      Re: h the Planck message in a bottle nero <oldogf@yahoo.it> - 2016-11-25 00:28 -0800
        Re: h the Planck message in a bottle Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-25 10:40 +0100
      Re: h the Planck message in a bottle John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-11-26 09:50 -0800

Page 5 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5] 6  Next page →


#399712

FromAlbert2 <Alber@2.invalid>
Date2016-11-25 22:53 +0100
Message-ID<5838b2f2$0$49325$b1db1813$788ffb35@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#397714
On 2016-11-04 18:53:46 +0100, Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> said:

> On 11/4/16 11/4/16   10:15 AM, Poutnik wrote:
>> On 11/04/2016 03:33 PM, Albert2 wrote:
>>> There are true numerical constants of nature,
>>> like the electron/proton mass ratio for example.
>> 
>> Or the somewhat mysterious constant of the fine structure.
> 
> It's not really that mysterious, as it is the coupling constant of the 
> electromagnetic force. That is, it directly expresses the strength of 
> that interaction. (The name is purely historical.)
> 
> It is true that any constant with physical meaning must be 
> dimensionless (aka unitless). That's because units are ARBITRARY 
> historical choices made by humans, and human history cannot possibly 
> affect physical phenomena.
> 
> Tom Roberts

Without losing any physics hbar can be taken to equal one, that is 1.
It is likely that hbar will be given a defined value next year,
just like c.
In tat case the standard kilogram will lose its status as a primary unit.

Albert2

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#399747

FromPoutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Date2016-11-26 08:10 +0100
Message-ID<o1bcfk$dc5$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#399712
Dne 25/11/2016 v 22:53 Albert2 napsal(a):
> 
> Without losing any physics hbar can be taken to equal one, that is 1.
> It is likely that hbar will be given a defined value next year,
> just like c.
> In tat case the standard kilogram will lose its status as a primary unit.
> 
More precisely,
the standard kilogram etalon will loose its status,
while the kilogram as the unit of mass
within the SI system of primary quantities will not.

There are implicitly included 3 different things here.

1/ Using various arbitrary and natural unit systems.
2/ Choosing primary quantities within given unit system.
3/ Definition of primary quantity unit etalons within given unit system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_units#Systems_of_natural_units

Natural unit systems are not used out of science.
Even within science,
they are used only if equation simplification gain
is bigger than switching unit system cost,
what usually does not happen out of physics.

E.g. chemistry and material sciences
have huge SI or CGS or imperial unit based experimental data,
while using natural unit equations does not give them advantage.

Defining hbar by a precise measurement
affects importance of the standard kilogram etalon ( desired ),
but not the importance of the kilogram primary unit of SI unit system,
nor of the SI system itself.

It just defines the kilogram unit more precisely,
similarly as was the metre
( PtIr rod > Fr wavelength > 1s + vacuum light speed ).



-- 
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )

A wise man guards words he says,
as they say about him more,
than he says about the subject.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#399749

FromPoutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Date2016-11-26 08:14 +0100
Message-ID<o1bclk$dc5$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#399747
Dne 26/11/2016 v 08:10 Poutnik napsal(a):

> 
> It just defines the kilogram unit more precisely,
> similarly as was the metre
> ( PtIr rod > Fr wavelength > 1s + vacuum light speed ).
> 
Errata> 86Kr(krypton) wavelength
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_metre
-- 
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )

A wise man guards words he says,
as they say about him more,
than he says about the subject.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#399763

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-11-26 12:26 +0000
Message-ID<o1bv19$949$4@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#399747
Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> writes:

>Dne 25/11/2016 v 22:53 Albert2 napsal(a):
>> 
>> Without losing any physics hbar can be taken to equal one, that is 1.
>> It is likely that hbar will be given a defined value next year,
>> just like c.
>> In tat case the standard kilogram will lose its status as a primary unit.
>> 
>More precisely,
>the standard kilogram etalon will loose its status,
>while the kilogram as the unit of mass
>within the SI system of primary quantities will not.

>There are implicitly included 3 different things here.

>1/ Using various arbitrary and natural unit systems.
>2/ Choosing primary quantities within given unit system.
>3/ Definition of primary quantity unit etalons within given unit system.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_units#Systems_of_natural_units

>Natural unit systems are not used out of science.
>Even within science,
>they are used only if equation simplification gain
>is bigger than switching unit system cost,
>what usually does not happen out of physics.

>E.g. chemistry and material sciences
>have huge SI or CGS or imperial unit based experimental data,
>while using natural unit equations does not give them advantage.

>Defining hbar by a precise measurement
>affects importance of the standard kilogram etalon ( desired ),
>but not the importance of the kilogram primary unit of SI unit system,
>nor of the SI system itself.

>It just defines the kilogram unit more precisely,
>similarly as was the metre
>( PtIr rod > Fr wavelength > 1s + vacuum light speed ).

I always wondered why they simply didn't define Avagadro's Number as being
exactly some value, so then by definition, 12 grams is Avagadro's Number
of C-12 atoms (exactly) and a kilogram is 1000/12 times Avagadro's Number
of C-12 atoms (exactly).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#399844

FromPoutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Date2016-11-26 22:07 +0100
Message-ID<o1ctft$hib$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#399763
Dne 26/11/2016 v 13:26 Michael Moroney napsal(a):

> 
> I always wondered why they simply didn't define Avagadro's Number as being
> exactly some value, so then by definition, 12 grams is Avagadro's Number
> of C-12 atoms (exactly) and a kilogram is 1000/12 times Avagadro's Number
> of C-12 atoms (exactly).
> 

It would ensure its constancy.

But, in contrary to the metre definition,
such an etalon would not be IMHO practicle to reproduce,
in order to create secondary etalons.

-- 
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )

A wise man guards words he says,
as they say about him more,
than he says about the subject.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#397702

FromMaciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl>
Date2016-11-04 17:35 +0100
Message-ID<nvidcl$r06$1@node1.news.atman.pl>
In reply to#397691

Użytkownik "Albert2"  napisał w wiadomości grup 
dyskusyjnych:581c9c6e$0$1748$b1db1813$eb72b5d4@news.astraweb.com...

> I would try to generalize: if it has
> a number in it - it's not natural for
> sure.

|You are wrong. There are true numerical constants of nature,
|like the electron/proton mass ratio for example.

Really?
You know, we're not including any part of the binding nuclear
energy into proton mass. For us the mass of a nucleus is the
sum of the masses of its nucleons and the binding energy.

But can you swear the nature shares this aproach? 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#397727

FromAlbert2 <Alber@2.invalid>
Date2016-11-04 21:36 +0100
Message-ID<581cf187$0$49761$b1db1813$788ffb35@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#397702
On 2016-11-04 17:35:20 +0100, Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> said:

> 
> 
> Użytkownik "Albert2"  napisał w wiadomości grup 
> dyskusyjnych:581c9c6e$0$1748$b1db1813$eb72b5d4@news.astraweb.com...
> 
>> I would try to generalize: if it has
>> a number in it - it's not natural for
>> sure.
> 
> |You are wrong. There are true numerical constants of nature,
> |like the electron/proton mass ratio for example.
> 
> Really?
> You know, we're not including any part of the binding nuclear
> energy into proton mass. For us the mass of a nucleus is the
> sum of the masses of its nucleons and the binding energy.
> 
> But can you swear the nature shares this aproach?

No need to swear to anything.
The proton mass and the electron mass can both measured, and their 
ratio is well defined.

It is a dimensionless number that needs to be explained by theory.
(which we don't have as yet)

Albert2

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#397731

FromMaciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl>
Date2016-11-04 22:03 +0100
Message-ID<nvit3v$rtv$1@node2.news.atman.pl>
In reply to#397727

Użytkownik "Albert2"  napisał w wiadomości grup 
dyskusyjnych:581cf187$0$49761$b1db1813$788ffb35@news.astraweb.com...

On 2016-11-04 17:35:20 +0100, Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> said:

>
>
> Użytkownik "Albert2"  napisał w wiadomości grup 
> dyskusyjnych:581c9c6e$0$1748$b1db1813$eb72b5d4@news.astraweb.com...
>
>> I would try to generalize: if it has
>> a number in it - it's not natural for
>> sure.
>
> |You are wrong. There are true numerical constants of nature,
> |like the electron/proton mass ratio for example.
>
> Really?
> You know, we're not including any part of the binding nuclear
> energy into proton mass. For us the mass of a nucleus is the
> sum of the masses of its nucleons and the binding energy.
>
> But can you swear the nature shares this aproach?

|No need to swear to anything.
|The proton mass and the electron mass can both measured, and their
|ratio is well defined.

Did you read what you're answerring?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#397937

FromAlbert2 <Alber@2.invalid>
Date2016-11-07 22:33 +0100
Message-ID<5820f375$0$16565$b1db1813$8a713e5c@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#397731
On 2016-11-04 22:03:46 +0100, Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> said:

> 
> 
> Użytkownik "Albert2"  napisał w wiadomości grup 
> dyskusyjnych:581cf187$0$49761$b1db1813$788ffb35@news.astraweb.com...
> 
> On 2016-11-04 17:35:20 +0100, Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl>  said:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Użytkownik "Albert2"  napisał w wiadomości grup 
>> dyskusyjnych:581c9c6e$0$1748$b1db1813$eb72b5d4@news.astraweb.com...
>> 
>>> I would try to generalize: if it has
>>> a number in it - it's not natural for
>>> sure.
>> 
>> |You are wrong. There are true numerical constants of nature,
>> |like the electron/proton mass ratio for example.
>> 
>> Really?
>> You know, we're not including any part of the binding nuclear
>> energy into proton mass. For us the mass of a nucleus is the
>> sum of the masses of its nucleons and the binding energy.
>> 
>> But can you swear the nature shares this aproach?
> 
> |No need to swear to anything.
> |The proton mass and the electron mass can both measured, and their
> |ratio is well defined.
> 
> Did you read what you're answerring?

I tell it like it is.

Albert2

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#397988

Frommlwozniak@wp.pl
Date2016-11-07 22:58 -0800
Message-ID<486d491a-2f92-4064-b101-080ddb29b400@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#397937
W dniu poniedziałek, 7 listopada 2016 22:34:46 UTC+1 użytkownik Albert2 napisał:
> On 2016-11-04 22:03:46 +0100, Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> said:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Użytkownik "Albert2"  napisał w wiadomości grup 
> > dyskusyjnych:581cf187$0$49761$b1db1813$788ffb35@news.astraweb.com...
> > 
> > On 2016-11-04 17:35:20 +0100, Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl>  said:
> > 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Użytkownik "Albert2"  napisał w wiadomości grup 
> >> dyskusyjnych:581c9c6e$0$1748$b1db1813$eb72b5d4@news.astraweb.com...
> >> 
> >>> I would try to generalize: if it has
> >>> a number in it - it's not natural for
> >>> sure.
> >> 
> >> |You are wrong. There are true numerical constants of nature,
> >> |like the electron/proton mass ratio for example.
> >> 
> >> Really?
> >> You know, we're not including any part of the binding nuclear
> >> energy into proton mass. For us the mass of a nucleus is the
> >> sum of the masses of its nucleons and the binding energy.
> >> 
> >> But can you swear the nature shares this aproach?
> > 
> > |No need to swear to anything.
> > |The proton mass and the electron mass can both measured, and their
> > |ratio is well defined.
> > 
> > Did you read what you're answerring?
> 
> I tell it like it is.
> 
> Albert2

So, it is you did read or it is you didn't?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#397692

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-11-04 14:41 +0000
Message-ID<nvi6mm$8h4$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#397686
mlwozniak@wp.pl writes:

>W dniu piątek, 4 listopada 2016 13:39:31 UTC+1 użytkownik Albert2 napisał:

>> Planck's constant is not a constant of nature.

>It's even written in its name.

>I would try to generalize: if it has
>a number in it - it's not natural for
>sure.

If it has non-null dimensions, its actual value will depend on the
units used.  For example, the speed of light, c, 299,792,458 meters
per second is 186,282 miles per second.  It's still the same speed
so is a constant, but the different units involved (miles vs. meters
in this example) gives different numeric values.  The same will be
true for h.  On the other hand, unitless constants such as the fine
structure constant or pi will always have the same value regardless
of the measurement units used.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#397703

FromMaciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl>
Date2016-11-04 17:36 +0100
Message-ID<nvidfa$r1m$1@node1.news.atman.pl>
In reply to#397692

Użytkownik "Michael Moroney"  napisał w wiadomości grup 
dyskusyjnych:nvi6mm$8h4$1@pcls7.std.com...

|true for h.  On the other hand, unitless constants such as the fine
|structure constant or pi will always have the same value regardless
|of the measurement units used.

According to your beloved Shit you can't get pi by measuring something.
Don't you know? 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#397713

FromGary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com>
Date2016-11-04 10:42 -0700
Message-ID<35a7296c-3883-4a9b-b16c-1f4118e46ea7@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#397703
On Friday, November 4, 2016 at 10:36:59 AM UTC-6, Maciej Woźniak wrote:
>
> Użytkownik "Michael Moroney"  napisał w wiadomości grup 
> dyskusyjnych:nvi6mm$8h4$1@pcls7.std.com...
> 
> |true for h.  On the other hand, unitless constants such as the fine
> |structure constant or pi will always have the same value regardless
> |of the measurement units used.
> 
> According to your beloved Shit you can't get pi by measuring something.
> Don't you know?

The stupid, ignorant, arrogant Weirdo Woz forgets that pi is the ratio
of a circle's circumference (a measured quantity) divided by its diameter
(another measured quantity).  BOOM!  There goes another of his toes :-)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#397730

FromMaciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl>
Date2016-11-04 22:00 +0100
Message-ID<nvisu5$rpr$1@node2.news.atman.pl>
In reply to#397713

Użytkownik "Gary Harnagel"  napisał w wiadomości grup 
dyskusyjnych:35a7296c-3883-4a9b-b16c-1f4118e46ea7@googlegroups.com...

On Friday, November 4, 2016 at 10:36:59 AM UTC-6, Maciej Woźniak wrote:
>
> Użytkownik "Michael Moroney"  napisał w wiadomości grup
> dyskusyjnych:nvi6mm$8h4$1@pcls7.std.com...
>
> |true for h.  On the other hand, unitless constants such as the fine
> |structure constant or pi will always have the same value regardless
> |of the measurement units used.
>
> According to your beloved Shit you can't get pi by measuring something.
> Don't you know?

|The stupid, ignorant, arrogant Weirdo Woz forgets that pi is the ratio
|of a circle's circumference (a measured quantity) divided by its diameter
|(another measured quantity).  BOOM!  There goes another of his toes :-)

The stupid, ignorant, arrogant weirdo Gary forgets his idiot guru has
refuted euclidean  prejudices.
Or maybe he never knew?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#397728

FromAlbert2 <Alber@2.invalid>
Date2016-11-04 21:46 +0100
Message-ID<581cf3e5$0$49846$b1db1813$788ffb35@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#397692
On 2016-11-04 15:41:26 +0100, moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael 
Moroney) said:

> mlwozniak@wp.pl writes:
> 
>> W dniu piątek, 4 listopada 2016 13:39:31 UTC+1 użytkownik Albert2 napisał:
> 
>>> Planck's constant is not a constant of nature.
> 
>> It's even written in its name.
> 
>> I would try to generalize: if it has
>> a number in it - it's not natural for
>> sure.
> 
> If it has non-null dimensions, its actual value will depend on the
> units used.  For example, the speed of light, c, 299,792,458 meters
> per second is 186,282 miles per second.  It's still the same speed
> so is a constant, but the different units involved (miles vs. meters
> in this example) gives different numeric values.  The same will be
> true for h.  On the other hand, unitless constants such as the fine
> structure constant or pi will always have the same value regardless
> of the measurement units used.

c is just another conversion constant between units.
It is an historical accident. The MKSA system was formulated before we knew
(thanks to Einstein) that space and time are really the same thing.

Albert2

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#398439

Fromnumbernumber1964@gmail.com
Date2016-11-13 12:54 -0800
Message-ID<5472faa7-dad8-43c2-b10e-c30a46541d02@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#395718
Planck constant is a invalid.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#398440

Fromnumbernumber1964@gmail.com
Date2016-11-13 12:59 -0800
Message-ID<58bcd5f1-3ae7-488f-b9ef-8e1c58d33919@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#395718
In Planck's derivation of the energy element and the constant h, Planck is equating the kinetic energies of the blackbody surface electrons (e) that possess a mass with the energies of massless electromagnetic photons (hv).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#398970

Fromnumbernumber1964@gmail.com
Date2016-11-19 13:47 -0800
Message-ID<54a5bf40-d720-4abd-86d2-8955ad0bc471@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#395718
 

Planck structurally unifies light with induction and quantizes Maxwell's electromagnetic field using the blackbody radiation effect to derive an energy element that represents the energy of a light particle emitted by the blackbody but quantizing Maxwell's electromagnetic field does not change the fact Lenard's particle structure of light conflicts with the continuity of Maxwell's electromagnetic field. As a light ray propagates, the optic particles form spaces between optic particles that distances between optic particles increases which eliminates the continuity of Maxwell's electromagnetic field required in the formation of a light wave. Furthermore, Maxwell's theory is based on Faraday's induction effect that is not luminous, nor is induction a particle or ionization effect yet Planck's blackbody is emitting electrons and light that is composed of optic particles. To structurally unify light with induction requires a light source that does not emit electrons yet the production of light is always accompanied by the emission of electrons. In addition, Lenard proves light is composed of particles that energy is dependent on only the frequency which conflicts with the continuity of Maxwell's electromagnetic field and Fresnel and Young diffraction mechanisms that are based on light waves that energy is dependent on the wave amplitude. I predict the aperture diffraction effect of light is formed by optic particles that activate the aperture edge atoms forming an aperture edge effect.  The optic particles that enter the aperture are redirected by the aperture edge effect to only the intensity areas of the diffraction pattern without involving an optical ether, or wave interference (fig 20).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#398971

Fromnumbernumber1964@gmail.com
Date2016-11-19 13:50 -0800
Message-ID<12e9c276-6715-48df-8412-10ed5b4bb293@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#395718
Also, before you state about Young's experiment, where is the optical ether, composed of matter that forms Young's light waves?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#398972

Fromnumbernumber1964@gmail.com
Date2016-11-19 13:51 -0800
Message-ID<dbc2cc5a-be1e-4c35-a6f6-791963b1c0fa@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#395718
Your arguments are empty.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


Page 5 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5] 6  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | sci.physics.relativity


csiph-web