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Black holes don't exist in reality

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  Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-04 17:37 -0700
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-09-05 05:14 +0200
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-05 10:38 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-06 00:52 +0200
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-05 20:39 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-06 07:46 +0200
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-06 12:33 -0700
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-06 22:49 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-06 14:18 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-06 15:02 -0700
                  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-06 15:37 -0700
                    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-07 04:37 +0200
                      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-07 13:07 -0700
                        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-07 14:56 -0700
                          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-08 12:05 +0200
                            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-08 04:12 -0700
                        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-08 10:21 +0200
                          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-08 15:19 +0200
                            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-08 13:34 -0700
                              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-09 00:11 +0200
                                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-09 22:55 -0700
                                  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-13 00:54 +0200
                                    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-12 16:20 -0700
                                      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 17:17 -0700
                                      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-13 02:40 +0200
                                        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-14 20:07 -0700
                                          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-15 09:30 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-09-10 19:56 +0200
                  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-10 11:09 -0700
                    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-30 05:50 +0200
                      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-29 21:09 -0700
                        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-29 21:12 -0700
                  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-11 02:33 +0200
                    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-10 18:00 -0700
                    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-09-11 15:21 +0200
                      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 14:03 +0000
                        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-09-11 21:34 +0200
                          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-11 12:57 -0700
                          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 20:50 +0000
                            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-11 14:00 -0700
                        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-11 23:27 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-09-06 19:39 +0200
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-06 20:08 +0200
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-06 13:21 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Haných Ltskáš <lnni@yawlucla.ha> - 2018-09-06 20:24 +0000
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-06 14:19 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-07 04:30 +0200
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-08 09:55 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-08 19:56 +0200
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-08 12:10 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-08 21:29 +0200
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-08 12:50 -0700
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-09 12:56 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-09 14:05 -0700
                  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-11 02:28 +0200
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-08 13:40 -0700
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-09 00:14 +0200
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-09 13:15 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-09 23:29 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 07:40 -0700
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-11 09:50 -0700
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 11:09 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-11 12:19 -0700
                  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality pnalsing@gmail.com - 2018-09-11 18:52 -0700
                  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 09:04 -0700
                    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-12 16:26 +0000
                      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-13 08:45 -0700
                        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-13 17:07 +0000
                    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-12 22:58 +0200
                      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-12 21:18 +0000
                      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 17:16 -0700
                        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-13 08:56 -0700
                      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-13 08:54 -0700
                        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-14 05:13 +0200
                          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-14 06:34 -0700
                            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-14 19:05 +0200
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-08 13:37 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-08 14:59 -0500
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-09 15:54 +0200
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-15 09:28 +0200
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-16 09:11 -0500
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-16 18:21 +0200
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-16 17:58 +0000
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-10 12:50 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-10 21:35 +0000
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-10 14:54 -0700
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-12 16:35 +0000
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 11:13 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 12:58 -0700
                  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-12 13:27 -0700
                    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-19 23:15 -0700
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 18:02 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 18:44 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-13 04:39 +0200
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 19:48 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality consequently7990662@gmail.com - 2018-09-12 20:10 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-13 10:14 +0200
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality consequently7990662@gmail.com - 2018-09-13 15:42 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-13 16:57 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-13 17:06 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-13 20:21 -0700
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-13 20:58 -0700
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-13 21:20 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-13 21:20 -0700
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-19 14:20 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-19 23:54 +0200
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-19 15:20 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-21 23:50 +0200
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-21 16:10 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-19 15:34 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-19 17:37 -0700
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-19 19:36 -0700
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaws.np> - 2018-09-20 15:25 +0000
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 14:57 -0700
                  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-22 00:24 +0200
                    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Rhett Joyner <udof@rsrrfirv.on> - 2018-09-21 22:42 +0000
                  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality Rhett Joyner <udof@rsrrfirv.on> - 2018-09-21 23:08 +0000
                    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-21 16:15 -0700
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-20 15:02 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-20 15:11 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-20 15:16 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-21 16:08 -0700
    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-22 16:18 -0700
      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-22 20:40 -0700
        Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-22 20:46 -0700
          Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-22 23:36 -0700
            Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-23 15:42 -0700
              Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-23 15:50 -0700
                Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-25 17:06 -0700
                  Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-25 18:43 -0700
                    Re: Black holes don't exist in reality "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-25 18:53 -0700
                      Re: Black holes don't exist in reality mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-25 19:09 -0700

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#471489

On Tuesday, 11 September 2018 16:03:52 UTC+2, Odd Bodkin  wrote:
> Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:
> > Am 11.09.2018 um 02:33 schrieb Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn:
> >> Thomas Heger wrote:
> >>> Am 06.09.2018 um 22:49 schrieb Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn:
> >>>>> Why did Hawking say event horizons were a problem?
> >>>> Because of the black hole information paradox: the assumption of all physics
> >>>> is that no information is lost.  But this would be the case as the
> >>>> information about objects beyond the event horizon cannot get out of a black
> >>>> hole.
> >>> 
> >>> Since when is no information lost in the universe?
> >> 
> >> Time immemorial.
> >> 
> >>> As far as I know, information is lost all the time.
> >> 
> >> You "know" a lot of nonsense, this one included.
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > You deny everything. So what..
> > 
> > And now you claim, that no information is lost in the universe.
> > 
> > But why do you think so??
> > 
> > E.g. I have lost a lot of information, caused by a malfunctioning hard 
> > drive.
> > 
> > But I could burn a few papers and information is also lost. So: what 
> > makes you think, that information does not get lost at all since times 
> > immemorial?
> > 
> > TH
> > 
> 
> Google “conservation of information”

I.e. GURUS said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#470640

Am 06.09.2018 um 00:52 schrieb Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn:
> Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am 05.09.2018 um 02:37 schrieb mitchrae3323@gmail.com:
>>> We are seeing what highest gravity does but that is
>>> short of a black hole. Supermassive Neutronium that
>>> won't collapse into a singularity. It is that form that
>>> we are seeing doing the same thing as would a black hole.
>>
>> If you apply a Lorentz transform to a coordinate system and turn the
>> axis of time from - say - vertical to - say - a little to the right, the
>> axis' x,y and z of the coordinate system are kind or 'squeezed' together.
>>
>> Since the three axis x, y and z of space represent space (OUR!!! space),
>> the turning of the axis of time would create a situation, which is
>> called 'black hole'.
> 
> Utter nonsense, not even wrong.  Why do you keep writing about things
> that you have no clue about as if you had one?  What’s the point?


Possibly you do actually believe in what you write and really really 
believe, that it is actually true.

I do the same, but based on other assumptions. I had a certain idea 
about how to connect GR (general relativity) and QM on the basis of a 
scheme, which I have invented myself.

(see here:
https://docs.google.com/present/view?id=dd8jz2tx_3gfzvqgd6 )

So - in a way - I have invented kind of 'private physics', about what I 
think, it is far better than yours.

That you do not agree is nothing for me to worry about. What is annoying 
is this typical kind of fanatism, which does not allow to criticize some 
fundamental theorems like e.g. SRT.

Now you base your judgment about my statements ('not even wrong') on 
certain doctrines, which are apparently part of the eduction at certain 
institutions.

But 'teachers say, professor says, Einstein says' is not a scientific 
proof. It is not even close to a proof. It is just repetition of what 
you have been told.

> Black holes are a feature in *curved* spacetime only.
> 

Well, if 'curved spacetime' is compatible with general relativity, than 
I have nothing to complain.


TH

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#470646

Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 06.09.2018 um 00:52 schrieb Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn:
>> Thomas Heger wrote:
>>> Since the three axis x, y and z of space represent space (OUR!!! space),
>>> the turning of the axis of time would create a situation, which is
>>> called 'black hole'.
>> Utter nonsense, not even wrong.  Why do you keep writing about things
>> that you have no clue about as if you had one?  What’s the point?
> 
> Possibly you do actually believe in what you write and really really 
> believe, that it is actually true.

Once more, this is _not_ about belief.  This is not what one likes or wants
to believe.  This is *science*, _not_ religion.  Contrary to you, I do not
believe, and I do not have to believe.  I *know* what I am talking about
because I have *studied*/I am *studying* it, and there is *observational
evidence* of what I am talking about.

  “Summary Lecture Ⅰ
   -----------------

   Science:
     We are not concerned with where a new idea comes from –
     the sole test of its validity is experiment.

   […]”

     – Richard P. Feynman (1918–1988):
       Whiteboard at the beginning of “The Feynman Lectures on Physics”
       (ca. 1961).
       California Institute of Technology, Michael A. Gottlieb, and
       Rudolf Pfeiffer: New Millennium Edition, 2006, 2013.

       <http://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/I_01.html>

> I do the same, but based on other assumptions.

Your assumptions based on your ignorance are irrelevant.

>> Black holes are a feature in *curved* spacetime only.
> 
> Well, if 'curved spacetime' is compatible with general relativity, than 
> I have nothing to complain.

That the (non-zero) curvature of spacetime is the explanation for the
phenomenon that we perceive as gravity is the *key concept* of general
relativity:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_relativity>

AISB: You have no clue what you are talking about.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#470662

On 9/4/2018 5:37 PM, mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
> We are seeing what highest gravity does but that is
> short of a black hole. Supermassive Neutronium that
> won't collapse into a singularity. It is that form that
> we are seeing doing the same thing as would a black hole.
> 
> 
> Einstein and Hawking both went against singularities.

Perhaps, maybe it never goes into a singularity, and just warps space 
into an infinitely long and thin tube, but never fully closes off. Just 
thinking out lout here. Sorry.

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#470663

Chris M. Thomasson wrote:

> On 9/4/2018 5:37 PM, mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
>> Einstein and Hawking both went against singularities.

Excellent addendum. Einstein had no idea about the implications induced by 
his theory, due singularities. I bet he didn't know what it is. As 
mediocre student, no lab experience, and no computers available.

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#470677

On 9/6/2018 1:24 PM, Haných Ltskáš wrote:
> Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> 
>> On 9/4/2018 5:37 PM, mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Einstein and Hawking both went against singularities.
> 
> Excellent addendum. Einstein had no idea about the implications induced by
> his theory, due singularities. I bet he didn't know what it is. As
> mediocre student, no lab experience, and no computers available.
> 

I still find it interesting. Perhaps, just like how infinite 
step-by-step iteration through the digits of an irrational number will 
never exactly reach the limit.

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#470754

Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 9/4/2018 5:37 PM, mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
>> We are seeing what highest gravity does but that is
>> short of a black hole. Supermassive Neutronium that
>> won't collapse into a singularity. It is that form that
>> we are seeing doing the same thing as would a black hole.
>>
>>
>> Einstein and Hawking both went against singularities.

Nonsense.

> Perhaps, maybe it never goes into a singularity, and just warps space 
> into an infinitely long and thin tube, but never fully closes off. Just 
> thinking out lout here. Sorry.

Draw two circles of different radius that have the same center.  Draw lines
intersecting the circles such that all lines are deflected towards the
center once they intersect the outer circle, and all lines intersecting the
inner circle cannot go outwards again.  Where do they end up?

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#470981

On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 at 7:37:21 PM UTC-5, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> We are seeing what highest gravity does but that is
> short of a black hole. Supermassive Neutronium that
> won't collapse into a singularity. It is that form that 
> we are seeing doing the same thing as would a black hole.
> 
> 
> Einstein and Hawking both went against singularities.
> 
> Mitchell Raemsch

Singularities are, of course, nonsense.  They are just a way of saying there is some missing information preventing accurate calculations.

I've been thinking that black holes are not black because light cannot ESCAPE FROM them, they are black because light cannot be CREATED WITHIN them. 

That shifts the problem from being about gravity to being about how atoms work under extreme pressure.  If atoms are compressed to the point where they cannot exchange photons, then they also cannot create light.  Nor, of course, would any light from outside be able to pass through such a concentration.

Just a thought.

Ed

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#470991

Ed Lake wrote:
> Singularities are, of course, nonsense.

Of course not.  Singularities occur all the time.

You are *still* merely arguing from your own ignorance.

> They are just a way of saying there is some missing information
> preventing accurate calculations.

Shut up and calculate!

The Schwarzschild metric (as a special case for the metric of a black hole
that has no electric charge and no angular momentum) is in Schwarzschild
coordinates

  ds² = c²dτ² = (1 − rₛ∕r) c²dt² − 1∕(1 − rₛ∕r) dr² − r² (dθ² + sin²θ dφ²).

What is the value of the right-hand side for r = 0?

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#471009

On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 10:56:23 AM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Ed Lake wrote:
> > Singularities are, of course, nonsense.
> 
> Of course not.  Singularities occur all the time.

And what are they?

> 
> You are *still* merely arguing from your own ignorance.
> 
> > They are just a way of saying there is some missing information
> > preventing accurate calculations.
> 
> Shut up and calculate!

The real world Calculus can't go exact. You would need infinite calculations Tommy...
What do you say to that?

> 
> The Schwarzschild metric (as a special case for the metric of a black hole
> that has no electric charge and no angular momentum) is in Schwarzschild
> coordinates
> 
>   ds² = c²dτ² = (1 − rₛ∕r) c²dt² − 1∕(1 − rₛ∕r) dr² − r² (dθ² + sin²θ dφ²).
> 
> What is the value of the right-hand side for r = 0?
> 
> -- 
> PointedEars
> 
> Twitter: @PointedEars2
> Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

Einstein and Hawking had problems with an infinite space curve.

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#471025

mitchrae3323@gmail.com full-quoted cluelessly:

> On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 10:56:23 AM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Ed Lake wrote:
>>> Singularities are, of course, nonsense.
>> Of course not.  Singularities occur all the time.
> 
> And what are they?

Where any function is not well-defined or not well-behaved in some way.  STFW.

>> You are *still* merely arguing from your own ignorance.
>>> They are just a way of saying there is some missing information
>>> preventing accurate calculations.
>> Shut up and calculate!
> 
> The real world Calculus can't go exact. You would need infinite calculations Tommy...
> What do you say to that?

  “That is not only not right; it is not even wrong!”

    –Wolfgang Pauli (translated)

>> The Schwarzschild metric (as a special case for the metric of a black hole
>> that has no electric charge and no angular momentum) is in Schwarzschild
>> coordinates
>>
>>   ds² = c²dτ² = (1 − rₛ∕r) c²dt² − 1∕(1 − rₛ∕r) dr² − r² (dθ² + sin²θ dφ²).
>>
>> What is the value of the right-hand side for r = 0?
>> […]
> 
> Einstein and Hawking had problems with an infinite space curve.

They had not.

You have the problem that you just cannot post properly.
And that is only one of your many problem (as evident from your postings).

Also, you have not answered the question.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#471028

On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 12:29:14 PM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> mitchrae3323@gmail.com full-quoted cluelessly:
> 
> > On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 10:56:23 AM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> >> Ed Lake wrote:
> >>> Singularities are, of course, nonsense.
> >> Of course not.  Singularities occur all the time.
> > 
> > And what are they?
> 
> Where any function is not well-defined or not well-behaved in some way.  STFW.

What are the physical singularities Tommy?
You can't stop time...

> 
> >> You are *still* merely arguing from your own ignorance.



> >>> They are just a way of saying there is some missing information
> >>> preventing accurate calculations.
> >> Shut up and calculate!
> > 
> > The real world Calculus can't go exact. You would need infinite calculations Tommy...
> > What do you say to that?
> 
>   “That is not only not right; it is not even wrong!”
> 
>     –Wolfgang Pauli (translated)
> 
> >> The Schwarzschild metric (as a special case for the metric of a black hole
> >> that has no electric charge and no angular momentum) is in Schwarzschild
> >> coordinates
> >>
> >>   ds² = c²dτ² = (1 − rₛ∕r) c²dt² − 1∕(1 − rₛ∕r) dr² − r² (dθ² + sin²θ dφ²).
> >>
> >> What is the value of the right-hand side for r = 0?
> >> […]
> > 
> > Einstein and Hawking had problems with an infinite space curve.
> 
> They had not.

Both of them had tommy.

> 
> You have the problem that you just cannot post properly.
> And that is only one of your many problem (as evident from your postings).
> 
> Also, you have not answered the question.
> 
> -- 
> PointedEars
> 
> Twitter: @PointedEars2
> Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

Mitchell Raemsch

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#471111

mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 12:29:14 PM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> mitchrae3323@gmail.com full-quoted cluelessly:
>>> On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 10:56:23 AM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>> Ed Lake wrote:
>>>>> Singularities are, of course, nonsense.
>>>> Of course not.  Singularities occur all the time.
>>> And what are they?
>> Where any function is not well-defined or not well-behaved in some way.  STFW.
> 
> What are the physical singularities Tommy?

Stop calling me “Tommy”, Mitchy-baby.

> You can't stop time...

Time is not stopped.

>>>> The Schwarzschild metric (as a special case for the metric of a black hole
>>>> that has no electric charge and no angular momentum) is in Schwarzschild
>>>> coordinates
>>>>
>>>>   ds² = c²dτ² = (1 − rₛ∕r) c²dt² − 1∕(1 − rₛ∕r) dr² − r² (dθ² + sin²θ dφ²).
>>>>
>>>> What is the value of the right-hand side for r = 0?
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>> […]
>>>
>>> Einstein and Hawking had problems with an infinite space curve.
>>
>> They had not.
> 
> Both of them had tommy.

Cite evidence.  And stop calling me “Tommy”.

>> You have the problem that you just cannot post properly.
>> And that is only one of your many problem (as evident from your postings)..
>>
>> Also, you have not answered the question.

You have still not answered the question.

.
.
.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#471192

On Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 3:56:50 AM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 12:29:14 PM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> >> mitchrae3323@gmail.com full-quoted cluelessly:
> >>> On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 10:56:23 AM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> >>>> Ed Lake wrote:
> >>>>> Singularities are, of course, nonsense.
> >>>> Of course not.  Singularities occur all the time.
> >>> And what are they?
> >> Where any function is not well-defined or not well-behaved in some way.  STFW.
> > 
> > What are the physical singularities Tommy?
> 
> Stop calling me “Tommy”, Mitchy-baby.
> 
> > You can't stop time...
> 
> Time is not stopped.
> 
> >>>> The Schwarzschild metric (as a special case for the metric of a black hole
> >>>> that has no electric charge and no angular momentum) is in Schwarzschild
> >>>> coordinates
> >>>>
> >>>>   ds² = c²dτ² = (1 − rₛ∕r) c²dt² − 1∕(1 − rₛ∕r) dr² − r² (dθ² + sin²θ dφ²).
> >>>>
> >>>> What is the value of the right-hand side for r = 0?
>      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>>> […]
> >>>
> >>> Einstein and Hawking had problems with an infinite space curve.
> >>
> >> They had not.
> > 
> > Both of them had tommy.
> 
> Cite evidence.  And stop calling me “Tommy”.
> 
> >> You have the problem that you just cannot post properly.
> >> And that is only one of your many problem (as evident from your postings)..
> >>
> >> Also, you have not answered the question.
> 
> You have still not answered the question.
> 
> .
> .
> .
> 
> -- 
> PointedEars
> 
> Twitter: @PointedEars2
> Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

Tommy? You lost the argument.

Mitchell Raemsch

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#471352

mitchrae3323@gmail.com wrote:
> Tommy? You lost the argument.

Claiming nonsense does not make it true.  Now fuck off.

F’up2 where you belong

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#471062

On 9/8/2018 12:29 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> mitchrae3323@gmail.com full-quoted cluelessly:
> 
>> On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 10:56:23 AM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> Ed Lake wrote:
>>>> Singularities are, of course, nonsense.
>>> Of course not.  Singularities occur all the time.
>>
>> And what are they?
> 
> Where any function is not well-defined or not well-behaved in some way.  STFW.

One can get spirals that go into an infinite funnel, and the math is 
perfectly sound.


> 
>>> You are *still* merely arguing from your own ignorance.
>>>> They are just a way of saying there is some missing information
>>>> preventing accurate calculations.
>>> Shut up and calculate!
>>
>> The real world Calculus can't go exact. You would need infinite calculations Tommy...
>> What do you say to that?
> 
>    “That is not only not right; it is not even wrong!”
> 
>      –Wolfgang Pauli (translated)
> 
>>> The Schwarzschild metric (as a special case for the metric of a black hole
>>> that has no electric charge and no angular momentum) is in Schwarzschild
>>> coordinates
>>>
>>>    ds² = c²dτ² = (1 − rₛ∕r) c²dt² − 1∕(1 − rₛ∕r) dr² − r² (dθ² + sin²θ dφ²).
>>>
>>> What is the value of the right-hand side for r = 0?
>>> […]
>>
>> Einstein and Hawking had problems with an infinite space curve.
> 
> They had not.
> 
> You have the problem that you just cannot post properly.
> And that is only one of your many problem (as evident from your postings).
> 
> Also, you have not answered the question.
> 

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#471079

Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 9/8/2018 12:29 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> mitchrae3323@gmail.com full-quoted cluelessly:
>>> On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 10:56:23 AM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>> Ed Lake wrote:
>>>>> Singularities are, of course, nonsense.
>>>> Of course not.  Singularities occur all the time.
>>> And what are they?
>> Where any function is not well-defined or not well-behaved in some way.  STFW.
> 
> One can get spirals that go into an infinite funnel, and the math is 
> perfectly sound.

I do not know what you are getting at, but a function that does not have a
defined value at a coordinate is certainly not well-defined there.

Please trim your quotes to the relevant minimum.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#471173

On 9/8/2018 3:14 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 9/8/2018 12:29 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> mitchrae3323@gmail.com full-quoted cluelessly:
>>>> On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 10:56:23 AM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>>> Ed Lake wrote:
>>>>>> Singularities are, of course, nonsense.
>>>>> Of course not.  Singularities occur all the time.
>>>> And what are they?
>>> Where any function is not well-defined or not well-behaved in some way.  STFW.
>>
>> One can get spirals that go into an infinite funnel, and the math is
>> perfectly sound.
> 
> I do not know what you are getting at, but a function that does not have a
> defined value at a coordinate is certainly not well-defined there.

Fwiw, the function never goes to zero, or tries to divide by zero. It 
just gets closer and closer to a point. No matter how many times I zoom 
in and increase floating point precision, it just gets closer and 
closer. It is obviously converging on a point, but never touches it. So, 
it never hits a "singularity", in a sense. Just an infinitely tight 
orbit around it. For example, take a look at the spiral eddies in the 
"outskirts" of the following rendering:

https://plus.google.com/101799841244447089430/posts/UhMJvPD4DUw

https://plus.google.com/101799841244447089430/posts/i3EtAVqM4WB
(this one has internal spirals, that go to infinity.)

Here is another example with two large masses converging on a single 
infinite point:

https://plus.google.com/101799841244447089430/posts/Lfx8uBxVxnF



> 
> Please trim your quotes to the relevant minimum.
> 

Sorry. Need to keep up on that.

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#471228

On 9/8/2018 3:14 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 9/8/2018 12:29 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> mitchrae3323@gmail.com full-quoted cluelessly:
>>>> On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 10:56:23 AM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>>> Ed Lake wrote:
>>>>>> Singularities are, of course, nonsense.
>>>>> Of course not.  Singularities occur all the time.
>>>> And what are they?
>>> Where any function is not well-defined or not well-behaved in some way.  STFW.
>>
>> One can get spirals that go into an infinite funnel, and the math is
>> perfectly sound.
> 
> I do not know what you are getting at, but a function that does not have a
> defined value at a coordinate is certainly not well-defined there.
> 
> Please trim your quotes to the relevant minimum.
> 

Fwiw, here is a deep zoom on a spiral contained in a special fractal of 
mine that goes on forevermore. It never converges into a single point 
within the infinite vortex. Instead, it creates an infinitely long tube, 
so to speak. This is a zoom where the matter in orbit looks like a flat 
disc. Rotating at near the speed of light:

A link to my image over on ACM SIGGRAPH Digital Arts:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/y7ouaw3y

It really does go on forever and never hits a singularity.

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#471391

On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 3:10:12 PM UTC-4, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 10:56:23 AM UTC-7, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> > Ed Lake wrote:
> > > Singularities are, of course, nonsense.
> > 
> > Of course not.  Singularities occur all the time.
> 
> And what are they?
> 
> > 
> > You are *still* merely arguing from your own ignorance.
> > 
> > > They are just a way of saying there is some missing information
> > > preventing accurate calculations.
> > 
> > Shut up and calculate!
> 
> The real world Calculus can't go exact. You would need infinite calculations Tommy...
> What do you say to that?

You are confusing computation (as in running calculations on a
computer) with calculus which can handle continuous real number
calculations. Computation is finite. Calculation is not.

Ed

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