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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #456275 > unrolled thread
| Started by | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2018-04-17 23:36 -0700 |
| Last post | 2018-04-25 15:33 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 135 — 27 participants |
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The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-17 23:36 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-04-18 00:12 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-18 00:42 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-18 22:26 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-18 05:34 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-18 17:02 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-18 17:08 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2018-04-18 17:33 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-18 10:27 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2018-04-19 12:19 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-19 23:51 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2018-04-21 22:02 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-21 09:25 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2018-04-22 16:23 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-22 13:48 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SoloomonW@citi.com.au> - 2018-04-23 10:35 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-22 21:13 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-22 23:23 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-22 23:31 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2018-04-23 20:04 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-20 11:56 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-18 20:17 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-18 10:18 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-04-18 13:33 -0400
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-19 23:53 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-04-18 12:26 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-18 12:30 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-18 12:39 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-18 12:37 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. casagiannoni@optonline.net - 2018-04-20 07:38 -0400
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-20 07:52 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-20 10:07 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-20 10:40 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-20 10:43 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-20 10:50 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-20 11:20 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-22 17:40 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-20 23:49 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-23 10:31 -0500
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-23 22:50 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-24 20:48 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Adam Stefaniak <adam.stefaniak@hotmail.co.uk> - 2018-04-24 04:51 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-24 23:44 -0500
Re: The Shape of the Universe. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-04-25 00:17 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Erálnì Histickému <no@ovmwk.gn> - 2018-04-25 09:48 +0000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Adam Stefaniak <adam.stefaniak@hotmail.co.uk> - 2018-04-25 04:46 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-24 08:49 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-24 08:50 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-24 23:21 -0500
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-25 20:25 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Klaus Meinhard <k_meinhard@gmx.de> - 2018-04-25 08:53 +0200
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-25 20:28 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-25 10:42 -0500
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-25 13:33 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-25 14:05 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 21:45 +0000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-25 15:11 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 22:25 +0000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-25 15:43 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-25 15:46 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-25 16:05 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-25 16:57 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-25 17:22 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-25 17:24 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-04-26 13:01 +0000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-26 06:39 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-04-26 14:29 +0000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-26 07:58 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-26 08:16 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-04-26 16:08 +0000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-26 10:38 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-26 11:01 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-26 06:40 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-26 07:12 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-25 22:53 -0500
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-25 21:13 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-26 00:00 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Erin Koff <umhn@cniwwe.im> - 2018-04-27 21:18 +0000
Gravity is the "memory" of where the stuff was. Jeff-Relf.Me @. - 2018-04-27 14:36 -0700
Re: Gravity is the "memory" of where the stuff was. Erin Koff <umhn@cniwwe.im> - 2018-04-27 21:44 +0000
You're a consumer. Jeff-Relf.Me @. - 2018-04-27 14:52 -0700
Re: You're a consumer. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-04-27 19:07 -0400
Re: Gravity is the "memory" of where the stuff was. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-04-27 19:05 -0400
Toss a rock up, and it "remembers" to come down. Jeff-Relf.Me @. - 2018-04-27 16:23 -0700
Re: Gravity is the "memory" of where the stuff was. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-05-02 15:47 -0500
Gravity is SpaceTime, the 4D TimeScape; it's everywhere, always. Jeff-Relf.Me @. - 2018-05-02 14:30 -0700
Re: Gravity is SpaceTime, the 4D TimeScape; it's everywhere, always. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-05-03 06:53 +0000
Where/When is there no Energy/Matter ? Jeff-Relf.Me @. - 2018-05-03 01:11 -0700
Re: Where/When is there no Energy/Matter ? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-05-03 16:53 +0000
Re: Where/When is there no Energy/Matter ? benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-05-04 11:38 -0400
Re: Where/When is there no Energy/Matter ? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-05-04 09:07 -0700
Re: Where/When is there no Energy/Matter ? Otto Wahl <tlow@wtiwor.oc> - 2018-05-04 17:53 +0000
Re: Where/When is there no Energy/Matter ? Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 19:06 -0700
Re: Where/When is there no Energy/Matter ? Otto Wahl <tlow@wtiwor.oc> - 2018-05-05 11:22 +0000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-27 16:38 -0500
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Erin Koff <umhn@cniwwe.im> - 2018-04-27 21:53 +0000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-27 15:01 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-04-28 11:31 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Erin Koff <umhn@cniwwe.im> - 2018-05-01 11:10 +0000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-04-27 21:41 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-04-29 03:27 +0200
Re: The Shape of the Universe. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-04-28 22:51 -0400
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-04-29 03:06 +0200
Re: The Shape of the Universe. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-04-28 22:30 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-30 09:31 -0500
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Erin Koff <umhn@cniwwe.im> - 2018-04-30 16:23 +0000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-30 09:25 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-05-01 01:27 +0100
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-05-01 13:12 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-05-24 21:01 +0200
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Oslovné Ritmickeho <uiq@oichewo.th> - 2018-05-24 19:35 +0000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-05-24 19:04 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Oslovné Ritmickeho <uiq@oichewo.th> - 2018-05-25 08:43 +0000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-26 19:44 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-26 08:18 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-28 00:16 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-27 07:46 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Erin Koff <umhn@cniwwe.im> - 2018-04-28 11:52 +0000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-04-28 14:23 -0400
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-28 12:00 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-28 12:01 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Erin Koff <umhn@cniwwe.im> - 2018-05-01 11:07 +0000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Lofty Goat <rlwatkins@gmail.com> - 2018-04-28 12:33 -0500
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-28 10:55 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-04-28 14:34 -0400
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-28 22:33 -0500
Re: The Shape of the Universe. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-04-28 22:33 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-04-29 03:17 -0400
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-04-29 09:21 -0400
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-29 07:26 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-28 11:44 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Klaus Meinhard <k_meinhard@gmx.de> - 2018-04-27 09:47 +0200
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> - 2018-04-27 21:39 +0200
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-27 13:25 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-04-25 15:33 -0700
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| From | Jeff-Relf.Me @. |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-27 14:52 -0700 |
| Subject | You're a consumer. |
| Message-ID | <Jeff-Relf.Me@Apr.27--2.52pm.Seattle.2018> |
| In reply to | #457066 |
> > Eventually, this eXergy will be consumed away, replaced with entropy; > > leaving us with a uniform heat bath that has all of the energy but > > none of the eXergy. Gravity is the "memory" of where the stuff was. > > Thanks. What to do next? You're a consumer. The only difference between you can sun is what you consume. when and how.
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| From | benj <benj@nobody.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-27 19:07 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: You're a consumer. |
| Message-ID | <n2OEC.37354$R51.5267@fx03.iad> |
| In reply to | #457067 |
On 4/27/2018 5:52 PM, Jeff-Relf.Me@. wrote: >>> Eventually, this eXergy will be consumed away, replaced with entropy; >>> leaving us with a uniform heat bath that has all of the energy but >>> none of the eXergy. Gravity is the "memory" of where the stuff was. >> >> Thanks. What to do next? > > You're a consumer. > The only difference between you can sun is what you consume. when and how. > The ONLY difference? Um, Rolf I can think of a few more differences between me and the sun. You are STILL an idiot!
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| From | benj <benj@nobody.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-27 19:05 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Gravity is the "memory" of where the stuff was. |
| Message-ID | <61OEC.37353$R51.16716@fx03.iad> |
| In reply to | #457064 |
On 4/27/2018 5:36 PM, Jeff-Relf.Me@. wrote: >>> There is nothing (no thing) into which space is expanding. This is an >>> expansion of the entire universe, so there can be nothing outside of it. >> >> I can't believe what I'm reading here, on this platform, in this forum. >> It has to be another paradox. Your "nothing" stands for >> the ABSENCE of time and space. You can't expand anything along that. > > 13.8 billion years ago, everything in the (subjectively) Known Universe > was in the same location; i.e. zero entropy and infinite density/exergy. > [ eXergy is a type of energy that can do physical work, force * distance ] > > Eventually, this eXergy will be consumed away, replaced with entropy; > leaving us with a uniform heat bath that has all of the energy > but none of the eXergy. > > Gravity is the "memory" of where the stuff was. > > All of history, every lesson ever, every advance, tells us: > Randomness is ignorance, nothing more. Rolf, there is no doubt that you are VERY random! > General Relativity's four dimensional TimeScape is static, eternal, > perfectly causal... it is, at once, everything _and_ nothing. >
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jeff-Relf.Me @. |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-27 16:23 -0700 |
| Subject | Toss a rock up, and it "remembers" to come down. |
| Message-ID | <Jeff-Relf.Me@Apr.27--4.23pm.Seattle.2018> |
| In reply to | #457064 |
MrAA replied ( to me ): > > Gravity is the "memory" of where the stuff was. > > The universe has no memory. Figuratively speaking, toss a rock up, and it "remembers" to come down. You think gravity is a sucking force, like a vacuum cleaner, no ? > > We're consumers. The only difference between us and the sun > > is what we consume, when and how.
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| From | Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-05-02 15:47 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: Gravity is the "memory" of where the stuff was. |
| Message-ID | <pcd84k$1gpj$2@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #457064 |
On 4/27/2018 4:36 PM, Jeff-Relf.Me@. wrote: >>> There is nothing (no thing) into which space is expanding. This is an >>> expansion of the entire universe, so there can be nothing outside of it. >> >> I can't believe what I'm reading here, on this platform, in this forum. >> It has to be another paradox. Your "nothing" stands for >> the ABSENCE of time and space. You can't expand anything along that. > > 13.8 billion years ago, everything in the (subjectively) Known Universe > was in the same location; i.e. zero entropy and infinite density/exergy. > [ eXergy is a type of energy that can do physical work, force * distance ] > > Eventually, this eXergy will be consumed away, replaced with entropy; > leaving us with a uniform heat bath that has all of the energy > but none of the eXergy. > > Gravity is the "memory" of where the stuff was. so, where there is no gravity, there is no memory where stuff is, it is Lost in Space. > > All of history, every lesson ever, every advance, tells us: > Randomness is ignorance, nothing more. randomness is a human concept, only humans decide what is random. > > General Relativity's four dimensional TimeScape is static, eternal, > perfectly causal... it is, at once, everything _and_ nothing. >
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jeff-Relf.Me @. |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-05-02 14:30 -0700 |
| Subject | Gravity is SpaceTime, the 4D TimeScape; it's everywhere, always. |
| Message-ID | <Jeff-Relf.Me@May.2--2.30pm.Seattle.2018> |
| In reply to | #457380 |
> > 13.8 billion years ago, everything in the (subjectively) Known Universe > > was in the same location; i.e. zero entropy and infinite density/exergy. > > [ eXergy is a type of energy that can do physical work, force * distance ] > > > > Eventually, this eXergy will be consumed away, replaced with entropy; > > leaving us with a uniform heat bath that has all of the energy > > but none of the eXergy. > > > > Gravity is the "memory" of where the stuff was. > > so, where there is no gravity, > there is no memory where stuff is; it's Lost in Space. Gravity is SpaceTime, the 4D TimeScape; it's everywhere, always.
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| From | moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-05-03 06:53 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Gravity is SpaceTime, the 4D TimeScape; it's everywhere, always. |
| Message-ID | <pcebks$ar8$3@pcls7.std.com> |
| In reply to | #457382 |
Jeff-Relf.Me @. writes: <snip exergy obsession> >Gravity is SpaceTime, the 4D TimeScape; it's everywhere, always. Wrong. Gravity is the curvature of spacetime, caused by mass-energy present.
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| From | Jeff-Relf.Me @. |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-05-03 01:11 -0700 |
| Subject | Where/When is there no Energy/Matter ? |
| Message-ID | <Jeff-Relf.Me@May.3--1.11am.Seattle.2018> |
| In reply to | #457401 |
> > Gravity is SpaceTime, the 4D TimeScape; it's everywhere, always. > > Wrong. Gravity is the curvature of spacetime, > caused by mass-energy present. Where/When is there no Energy/Matter ? Einstein wrote: Time and space and gravitation have no separate existence from matter. 13.8 billion years ago, everything in the (subjectively) Known Universe was in the same location; i.e. zero entropy and infinite density/exergy. Eventually, this eXergy will be consumed away, replaced with entropy; leaving us with a uniform heat bath that has all of the energy but none of the eXergy.
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| From | moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-05-03 16:53 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Where/When is there no Energy/Matter ? |
| Message-ID | <pcfeqm$8di$2@pcls7.std.com> |
| In reply to | #457403 |
Jeff-Relf.Me @. writes: >> > Gravity is SpaceTime, the 4D TimeScape; it's everywhere, always. >> >> Wrong. Gravity is the curvature of spacetime, >> caused by mass-energy present. >Where/When is there no Energy/Matter ? Irrelevant. I never claimed there is no Energy/Matter. I said that gravity is the curvature of spacetime, not spacetime. Where there is very little matter/energy, there is very little curvature of spacetime, but still spacetime.
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| From | benj <benj@nobody.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-05-04 11:38 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Where/When is there no Energy/Matter ? |
| Message-ID | <28%GC.77057$Hv4.58302@fx39.iad> |
| In reply to | #457426 |
On 5/3/2018 12:53 PM, Michael Moroney wrote: > Jeff-Relf.Me @. writes: > >>>> Gravity is SpaceTime, the 4D TimeScape; it's everywhere, always. >>> >>> Wrong. Gravity is the curvature of spacetime, >>> caused by mass-energy present. > >> Where/When is there no Energy/Matter ? > > Irrelevant. I never claimed there is no Energy/Matter. > I said that gravity is the curvature of spacetime, not > spacetime. Where there is very little matter/energy, > there is very little curvature of spacetime, but still > spacetime. > There is no evidence that gravity is CAUSED by the fantasy spacetime construction. There is a mathematical correlation but that is not a cause.
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| From | Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-05-04 09:07 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Where/When is there no Energy/Matter ? |
| Message-ID | <b9SdnaLQJ9vZGHHHnZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #457484 |
On 5/4/18 8:38 AM, benj wrote: > There is no evidence that gravity is CAUSED by the fantasy spacetime > construction. Of course not! Spacetime is a MODEL of the world, not part of the world. But you will have GREAT difficulty describing the "cause" of anything, much less something as abstract as gravity. Consider a famous example: I strike a match and obtain a small fire. What "caused" this: a) my moving the matchhead across the striking surface b) friction between matchhead and striking surface c) the particular configuration of atoms in matchhead, striking surface, and air d) my desire for heat and light e) my parents' copulation that subsequently produced me and the commercial enterprise that produced the matchbook f) some primordial event lost in the deep past that produced everything in the world today g) .... Today we know that "cause" is far too wishy-washy and ill-defined to be useful in physics. In modern field theories like GR and the standard model, we discuss causal STRUCTURE, not causes -- which events can and can not affect what happens at the event being studied. Tom Roberts
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| From | Otto Wahl <tlow@wtiwor.oc> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-05-04 17:53 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Where/When is there no Energy/Matter ? |
| Message-ID | <pci6m9$1deg$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #457485 |
Tom Roberts wrote: > I strike a match and obtain a small fire. > What "caused" this: > a) my moving the matchhead across the striking surface > b) friction between matchhead and striking surface > c) the particular configuration of atoms in matchhead, striking > surface, and air > d) my desire for heat and light e) my parents' copulation that > subsequently produced me and the commercial enterprise that produced > the matchbook > f) some primordial event lost in the deep past that produced > everything in the world today > g) .... only b), please be careful.
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| From | Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-05-04 19:06 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Where/When is there no Energy/Matter ? |
| Message-ID | <db84e2f6-0387-4cd3-a81b-424939d4f362@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #457486 |
On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 1:53:19 PM UTC-4, Otto Wahl wrote: > Tom Roberts wrote: > > > I strike a match and obtain a small fire. > > What "caused" this: > > a) my moving the matchhead across the striking surface > > b) friction between matchhead and striking surface > > c) the particular configuration of atoms in matchhead, striking > > surface, and air > > d) my desire for heat and light e) my parents' copulation that > > subsequently produced me and the commercial enterprise that produced > > the matchbook > > f) some primordial event lost in the deep past that produced > > everything in the world today > > g) .... > > only b), please be careful. depends on the scale of the system that we are studying, so there is no one answer. Ed
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| From | Otto Wahl <tlow@wtiwor.oc> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-05-05 11:22 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Where/When is there no Energy/Matter ? |
| Message-ID | <pck45q$9hd$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #457504 |
Edward Prochak wrote: > On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 1:53:19 PM UTC-4, Otto Wahl wrote: >> Tom Roberts wrote: >> >> > I strike a match and obtain a small fire. >> > What "caused" this: >> > a) my moving the matchhead across the striking surface >> > b) friction between matchhead and striking surface >> > c) the particular configuration of atoms in matchhead, striking >> > surface, and air >> > d) my desire for heat and light e) my parents' copulation that >> > subsequently produced me and the commercial enterprise that produced >> > the matchbook >> > f) some primordial event lost in the deep past that produced >> > everything in the world today >> > g) .... >> >> only b), please be careful. > > depends on the scale of the system that we are studying, > so there is no one answer. No sir, b) has to happen. All the others are secondary and diffuse.
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| From | Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-27 16:38 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <SYidnTC06s_MBX7HnZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #457062 |
On 4/27/18 4:18 PM, Erin Koff wrote: > Tom Roberts wrote: >> On 4/25/18 3:33 PM, hanson wrote: >>> So, if "space is expanding" what is space expanding into? >> There is nothing (no thing) into which space is expanding. This is an >> expansion of the entire universe, so there can be nothing outside of it. > > Your "nothing" stands for the ABSENCE of time > and space. You can't expand anything along that. In our current cosmological models, space is NOT "expanding into nothing", it is just expanding. There is no "into" or "along", just expansion -- an intrinsic increase in size. This is different from any ordinary expansion. When you blow up a balloon, it clearly expands into the surrounding air. Geometrically, the balloon is embedded in the 3-d space containing the air and balloon. But the geometry of the universe is QUITE different -- it is not embedded in anything (any manifold). Please note I am discussing our MODELS. But, of course, models are all we can discuss.... Tom Roberts
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| From | Erin Koff <umhn@cniwwe.im> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-27 21:53 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <pc064r$udd$3@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #457065 |
Tom Roberts wrote: > On 4/27/18 4:18 PM, Erin Koff wrote: >> Tom Roberts wrote: >>> On 4/25/18 3:33 PM, hanson wrote: >>>> So, if "space is expanding" what is space expanding into? >>> There is nothing (no thing) into which space is expanding. This is an >>> expansion of the entire universe, so there can be nothing outside of >>> it. >> >> Your "nothing" stands for the ABSENCE of time and space. You can't >> expand anything along that. > > In our current cosmological models, space is NOT "expanding into > nothing", it is just expanding. There is no "into" or "along", just > expansion -- an intrinsic increase in size. > This is different from any ordinary expansion. When you blow up a > balloon, it clearly expands into the surrounding air. Geometrically, the > balloon is embedded in the 3-d space containing the air and balloon. But > the geometry of the universe is QUITE different -- it is not embedded in > anything (any manifold).Please note I am discussing our MODELS. But, of > course, models are all we can discuss.... eXACTLY, the absence of geometry "outside" this universe is absurd. Hence a paradox.
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| From | "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-27 15:01 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <08e395e7-40de-4705-807e-2ada0c23cff3@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #457068 |
> In our current cosmological models, space is NOT "expanding into > nothing", it is just expanding. There is no "into" or "along", just > expansion -- an intrinsic increase in size. > This is different from any ordinary expansion. When you blow up a > balloon, it clearly expands into the surrounding air. Geometrically, the > balloon is embedded in the 3-d space containing the air and balloon. But > the geometry of the universe is QUITE different -- it is not embedded in > anything (any manifold).Please note I am discussing our MODELS. But, of > course, models are all we can discuss.... eXACTLY, the absence of geometry "outside" this universe is absurd. Hence a paradox. 13.7 billion light years is simply the “Extinction Limit” of hbar. No information can travel farther than 14 billion light years because there is no mechanism to produce a hot enough Photon After 14.0047821766 billion light years, a Photon emitted at Planck temperature will have dropped below Planck's Constant . So that is the Horizon of the Universe and a Different Universe after that (hbar / s)*14.0047821766 billion light years*c/(4pi/3) = 1 (s/hbar *Joules^2 ) = 5.91852459e52 eV Photon (s/hbar *Joules^2 )/ 1.416808e32 Kelvin /6.52749404442^2/(pi/2) = 1 ((5.91979465e52 eV * electron mass /c *137.035999172^2)^2/(m^2 kg^4 / s^2)+0.5^0.5 = 1 ((5.91979465e52 eV /joules * hbar hbar*5.91979465e52 eV = 1.00021459
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| From | mitchrae3323@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-28 11:31 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <95675757-ef14-4c7d-9a13-4ae5455ddc75@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #457068 |
On Friday, April 27, 2018 at 2:53:36 PM UTC-7, Erin Koff wrote: > Tom Roberts wrote: > > > On 4/27/18 4:18 PM, Erin Koff wrote: > >> Tom Roberts wrote: > >>> On 4/25/18 3:33 PM, hanson wrote: > >>>> So, if "space is expanding" what is space expanding into? > >>> There is nothing (no thing) into which space is expanding. This is an > >>> expansion of the entire universe, so there can be nothing outside of > >>> it. > >> > >> Your "nothing" stands for the ABSENCE of time and space. You can't > >> expand anything along that. > > > > In our current cosmological models, space is NOT "expanding into > > nothing", it is just expanding. There is no "into" or "along", just > > expansion -- an intrinsic increase in size. > > This is different from any ordinary expansion. When you blow up a > > balloon, it clearly expands into the surrounding air. Geometrically, the > > balloon is embedded in the 3-d space containing the air and balloon. But > > the geometry of the universe is QUITE different -- it is not embedded in > > anything (any manifold).Please note I am discussing our MODELS. But, of > > course, models are all we can discuss.... > > eXACTLY, the absence of geometry "outside" this universe is absurd. Hence > a paradox. Its your own paradox... Prove the universe has never expanded. That universe doesn't work as nothing would ever have space at all to happen in... Mitchell Raemsch
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| From | Erin Koff <umhn@cniwwe.im> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-05-01 11:10 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <pc9hun$1a71$5@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #457117 |
mitchrae3323 wrote: >> eXACTLY, the absence of geometry "outside" this universe is absurd. >> Hence a paradox. > > Its your own paradox... Prove the universe has never expanded. That > universe doesn't work as nothing would ever have space at all to happen > in... Mitchell Raemsch I must ask you to rephrase this question. The bitch is not about proofs, but what it makes sense or is absurd.
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| From | mlwozniak@wp.pl |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-27 21:41 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <84fa0afe-16f3-45a9-a637-ecefabfcafc0@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #457065 |
On Friday, 27 April 2018 23:38:31 UTC+2, tjrob137 wrote: > just expanding. There is no "into" or "along", just expansion -- an intrinsic > increase in size. Yes, your bunch of idiots is mumbling, as expected from a bunch of idiots.
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