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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #674529 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-17 09:11 +0200 |
| Last post | 2026-10-17 18:57 -0700 |
| Articles | 12 on this page of 192 — 12 participants |
Back to article view | Back to sci.physics.relativity
Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-17 09:11 +0200
Re: Words have power Truman Babichev <avbb@bi.ru> - 2026-10-17 09:58 +0000
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-17 13:08 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-17 18:25 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-17 16:32 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-17 18:46 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-17 16:49 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-17 18:55 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-17 17:04 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-17 19:14 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-17 17:18 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-17 19:21 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-17 17:23 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-17 19:29 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-17 17:31 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-17 19:36 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-17 17:38 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-17 19:44 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-17 17:46 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-17 19:55 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-17 17:57 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-17 20:09 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-17 23:39 +0000
Re: Words have power Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-17 19:03 -0700
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-18 07:50 +0200
Re: Words have power The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 11:24 -0700
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-17 20:44 +0200
Re: Words have power The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 12:02 -0700
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-17 21:54 +0200
Re: Words have power The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 13:31 -0700
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-17 22:45 +0200
Re: Words have power The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 15:56 -0700
Re: Words have power Russell Bahmutoff <sm@temar.ru> - 2026-10-17 19:17 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-17 22:19 +0200
Re: Words have power Fermin Ribakov <ifrbn@iobf.ru> - 2026-10-17 21:03 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-18 07:46 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-17 23:37 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-18 07:47 +0200
Re: Words have power Kevvy Ruzaev <vvavv@vrzrz.ru> - 2026-10-18 07:51 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-18 10:16 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:00 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-18 13:54 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:57 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-18 14:10 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-18 12:13 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-18 14:20 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-18 12:23 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-18 14:28 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-18 12:36 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-18 14:39 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-18 12:42 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-18 14:44 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-19 10:43 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-19 13:05 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-19 11:15 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-19 13:21 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-19 11:42 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-19 13:53 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:07 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-19 14:19 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:31 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-19 14:44 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:59 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-19 15:16 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-19 13:38 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-19 15:49 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-19 13:58 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-19 16:02 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:06 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-19 16:26 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:28 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-19 16:39 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-19 15:37 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-19 18:37 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-19 16:42 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-19 18:51 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-19 16:53 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-19 19:02 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-19 17:03 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-19 19:11 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-19 17:23 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-19 19:37 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-19 21:55 +0000
Re: Words have power Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 15:10 -0700
Re: Words have power Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 15:27 -0700
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-20 07:23 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-20 08:00 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-20 10:26 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-20 08:34 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-20 10:54 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-20 09:25 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-20 12:10 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-20 10:18 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-20 12:32 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-20 10:39 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-20 12:44 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-20 10:55 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-20 11:11 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-20 13:22 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-20 11:37 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-20 13:44 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-20 11:48 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-20 13:55 +0200
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-20 14:03 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-20 15:29 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-20 17:57 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-20 16:03 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-20 18:13 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-20 16:15 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-20 18:27 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-20 16:51 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-20 19:12 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-20 17:17 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-20 19:33 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:25 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-20 23:07 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-20 21:15 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-20 23:34 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-20 21:39 +0000
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-20 21:52 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-21 06:40 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-21 14:51 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-21 17:03 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-21 15:04 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-21 17:16 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-21 17:45 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-21 20:07 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-21 23:20 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-22 07:05 +0200
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-22 07:21 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-22 11:27 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-22 14:28 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-22 12:31 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-22 14:38 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-22 13:46 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-22 15:53 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-22 14:02 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-22 16:29 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-22 15:23 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-22 18:35 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-22 16:46 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-22 18:55 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-22 17:11 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-22 19:18 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-22 17:21 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-22 19:31 +0200
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-22 21:08 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-22 22:04 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-23 06:53 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-23 09:01 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-23 12:22 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-23 10:27 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-23 12:32 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-23 10:33 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-23 12:40 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-23 10:41 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-23 12:45 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-23 10:49 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-23 12:51 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-23 10:56 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-23 13:06 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-23 11:11 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-23 13:19 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-23 11:33 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-23 13:36 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-23 11:43 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-23 13:50 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-23 11:51 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-23 13:53 +0200
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-23 11:55 +0000
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-23 13:56 +0200
Re: Words have power Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 15:28 -0700
Re: Words have power Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-10-20 22:32 +0000
Re: Words have power Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 07:11 -0700
Re: Words have power Salvado Bazarov <avvazv@vzbb.ru> - 2026-10-19 19:07 +0000
Re: Words have power "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 14:39 -0700
Re: Words have power Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 04:58 -0700
Re: Words have power Dawn Rujenkov <jrdj@een.ru> - 2026-10-18 16:55 +0000
Re: Words have power The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 13:34 -0700
Re: Words have power The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 22:19 -0700
Re: Words have power nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-17 22:37 +0200
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-17 22:47 +0200
Re: Words have power Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-17 19:00 -0700
Re: Words have power nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 12:30 +0200
Re: Words have power Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2026-10-18 12:42 +0200
Re: Words have power Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 04:56 -0700
Re: Words have power Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 07:07 -0700
Re: Words have power nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 21:39 +0200
Re: Words have power Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 00:56 -0700
Re: Words have power (perspective geomtry) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-17 09:15 -0700
Re: Words have power (perspective geometry) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-17 18:57 -0700
Page 10 of 10 — ← Prev page 1 … 8 9 [10]
| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 22:19 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6AD456DA.6098@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #674562 |
The Starmaker wrote: > > The Starmaker wrote: > > > > "geometry"???? > > > > there are no lines in space! > > > > There is no linear in space.. > > > > no circles > > no triangles > > no squares, etc > > > > none of those shapes > > you people use a crayon > > to draw shapes with. > > > > dat pyramid in egypt... > > those are earth measurements.. > > people project unto space.. > > > > but they don't exist! > > > > You know, with all dis math and physics.. > > attempt to put together > > yous created a fake world dat don't exist out there. > > > > In other words, there is no Physics. > > > > yous made it all up! > > > > You experts > > are experts > > in making > > stuff up! > > and where did the 'laws of physcis' come from??? You made it all up!!! > > all of it! Let me put it this way... the 'laws of physcis' YOU GUYS MADE IT ALL UP! What is the History of the 'laws of physcis'? where did the 'laws of physcis' come from? YOU GUYS MADE IT ALL UP! Does math work well with physics? Sure it does! They are both made all up! -- The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge the unchallengeable.
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| From | nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 22:37 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <1s34v6s.jj15fk15ci4qnN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> |
| In reply to | #674531 |
Python <python@cccp.invalid> wrote: > Maciej, > > Your two examples actually illustrate the same mistake. > > In non-Euclidean geometry, nobody gets a new geometry merely by > "calling circles straight lines". > > A geodesic is defined by the geometry. On a sphere, great circles are > geodesics. Their properties follow from the metric and can be measured: > triangle angle sums, distances, curvature, etc. > > Changing the word "straight" changes nothing. > > Likewise with GPS. > > Relativity predicted BEFORE the NTS-2 launch: > > +446.5 x 10^-12 > > With the correction disabled, the clock measured: > > +442.5 x 10^-12 > > Calling the clock "perfect", "junk", or "a banana" changes neither > number. > > Ironically, your title is exactly right: > > Words have power. > > But apparently only in your physics, where renaming a measured > frequency shift "clock error" makes a quantitative prediction disappear. > > In geometry and experimental physics, unfortunately, the numbers remain > there after the vocabulary lesson. Indeed, and physics in general is about those things that do not depend on the words used to describe them. Like the number +446.5 x 10^-12 for example. If it depends on words it isn't physics, Jan
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| From | Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 22:47 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <18df6c1a24889a21$9070$1964278$c2065a8b@news.newsdemon.com> |
| In reply to | #674563 |
On 10/17/2026 10:37 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote: >> In geometry and experimental physics, unfortunately, the numbers remain >> there after the vocabulary lesson. > > Indeed, and physics in general is about those things > that do not depend on the words used to describe them. Sorry, Loddie, only a complete idiot like yourself can believe such a nonsense.
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| From | Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 19:00 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7tGcnXf4KLXJtUn3nZ2dnZfqnPtbCfTn@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #674563 |
On 10/17/2026 01:37 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote: > Python <python@cccp.invalid> wrote: > >> Maciej, >> >> Your two examples actually illustrate the same mistake. >> >> In non-Euclidean geometry, nobody gets a new geometry merely by >> "calling circles straight lines". >> >> A geodesic is defined by the geometry. On a sphere, great circles are >> geodesics. Their properties follow from the metric and can be measured: >> triangle angle sums, distances, curvature, etc. >> >> Changing the word "straight" changes nothing. >> >> Likewise with GPS. >> >> Relativity predicted BEFORE the NTS-2 launch: >> >> +446.5 x 10^-12 >> >> With the correction disabled, the clock measured: >> >> +442.5 x 10^-12 >> >> Calling the clock "perfect", "junk", or "a banana" changes neither >> number. >> >> Ironically, your title is exactly right: >> >> Words have power. >> >> But apparently only in your physics, where renaming a measured >> frequency shift "clock error" makes a quantitative prediction disappear. >> >> In geometry and experimental physics, unfortunately, the numbers remain >> there after the vocabulary lesson. > > Indeed, and physics in general is about those things > that do not depend on the words used to describe them. > Like the number +446.5 x 10^-12 for example. > If it depends on words it isn't physics, > > Jan > Au contraire, semantics after syntax for symbols about signs is what makes any sort of "interpreted in the model" possible. "Use your words", is a common admonition to infants. Mathematical physics, then, about the mathematical model and the physical and interpreting the mathematical model in the physical model and interpreting the physical model in the mathematical model: depends on language, thus words. A dog with a stick can scratch circles on the beach.
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| From | nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 12:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <1s367zg.1t7hwmsggtl7kN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> |
| In reply to | #674573 |
Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote: > On 10/17/2026 01:37 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote: > > Python <python@cccp.invalid> wrote: > > > >> Maciej, > >> > >> Your two examples actually illustrate the same mistake. > >> > >> In non-Euclidean geometry, nobody gets a new geometry merely by > >> "calling circles straight lines". > >> > >> A geodesic is defined by the geometry. On a sphere, great circles are > >> geodesics. Their properties follow from the metric and can be measured: > >> triangle angle sums, distances, curvature, etc. > >> > >> Changing the word "straight" changes nothing. > >> > >> Likewise with GPS. > >> > >> Relativity predicted BEFORE the NTS-2 launch: > >> > >> +446.5 x 10^-12 > >> > >> With the correction disabled, the clock measured: > >> > >> +442.5 x 10^-12 > >> > >> Calling the clock "perfect", "junk", or "a banana" changes neither > >> number. > >> > >> Ironically, your title is exactly right: > >> > >> Words have power. > >> > >> But apparently only in your physics, where renaming a measured > >> frequency shift "clock error" makes a quantitative prediction disappear. > >> > >> In geometry and experimental physics, unfortunately, the numbers remain > >> there after the vocabulary lesson. > > > > Indeed, and physics in general is about those things > > that do not depend on the words used to describe them. > > Like the number +446.5 x 10^-12 for example. > > If it depends on words it isn't physics, > > > > Jan > > > > Au contraire, semantics after syntax for symbols about signs > is what makes any sort of "interpreted in the model" possible. > > "Use your words", is a common admonition to infants. Physics isn't for infants. > Mathematical physics, then, about the mathematical model and > the physical and interpreting the mathematical model in the > physical model and interpreting the physical model in the > mathematical model: depends on language, thus words. Thanks for the perfect illustration, Jan
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| From | Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 12:42 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <18df99aa7c883ea2$9075$1964278$c2065a8b@news.newsdemon.com> |
| In reply to | #674587 |
On 10/18/2026 12:30 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote: >>> >> >> Au contraire, semantics after syntax for symbols about signs >> is what makes any sort of "interpreted in the model" possible. >> >> "Use your words", is a common admonition to infants. > > Physics isn't for infants. It is for brainwashed religious maniacs worshiping desynchronizing clocks as perfect.
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| From | Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 04:56 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <Hc2dnVGPeKZ7Lkn3nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #674587 |
On 10/18/2026 03:30 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote: > Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 10/17/2026 01:37 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote: >>> Python <python@cccp.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> Maciej, >>>> >>>> Your two examples actually illustrate the same mistake. >>>> >>>> In non-Euclidean geometry, nobody gets a new geometry merely by >>>> "calling circles straight lines". >>>> >>>> A geodesic is defined by the geometry. On a sphere, great circles are >>>> geodesics. Their properties follow from the metric and can be measured: >>>> triangle angle sums, distances, curvature, etc. >>>> >>>> Changing the word "straight" changes nothing. >>>> >>>> Likewise with GPS. >>>> >>>> Relativity predicted BEFORE the NTS-2 launch: >>>> >>>> +446.5 x 10^-12 >>>> >>>> With the correction disabled, the clock measured: >>>> >>>> +442.5 x 10^-12 >>>> >>>> Calling the clock "perfect", "junk", or "a banana" changes neither >>>> number. >>>> >>>> Ironically, your title is exactly right: >>>> >>>> Words have power. >>>> >>>> But apparently only in your physics, where renaming a measured >>>> frequency shift "clock error" makes a quantitative prediction disappear. >>>> >>>> In geometry and experimental physics, unfortunately, the numbers remain >>>> there after the vocabulary lesson. >>> >>> Indeed, and physics in general is about those things >>> that do not depend on the words used to describe them. >>> Like the number +446.5 x 10^-12 for example. >>> If it depends on words it isn't physics, >>> >>> Jan >>> >> >> Au contraire, semantics after syntax for symbols about signs >> is what makes any sort of "interpreted in the model" possible. >> >> "Use your words", is a common admonition to infants. > > Physics isn't for infants. > >> Mathematical physics, then, about the mathematical model and >> the physical and interpreting the mathematical model in the >> physical model and interpreting the physical model in the >> mathematical model: depends on language, thus words. > > Thanks for the perfect illustration, > > Jan > Foundations: of reason, logic, mathematics, and for science and physics: also includes accounts of language and grammar. It's a sole Foundations. The technical philosophy isn't necessarily the techno-analytic philosophy, and it's both, combining the teleological and analytical traditions, for strong mathematical platonism and logicist positivism. Accounts of perspective & projection, for geometry & motion, with an axiomless geometry after point & space, has for complementary duals and paradox-free reason, accounts why reason brings this and it's so, the logos, with matheosis and fusis and metafusis. Theoria, .... These are among reasons why theatheory is "The A-Theory". Foundations is for all the marbles.
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| From | Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 07:07 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <r9CdnUniLPkrT0n3nZ2dnZfqn_F2p2F9@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #674593 |
On 10/18/2026 04:56 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: > On 10/18/2026 03:30 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote: >> Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 10/17/2026 01:37 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote: >>>> Python <python@cccp.invalid> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Maciej, >>>>> >>>>> Your two examples actually illustrate the same mistake. >>>>> >>>>> In non-Euclidean geometry, nobody gets a new geometry merely by >>>>> "calling circles straight lines". >>>>> >>>>> A geodesic is defined by the geometry. On a sphere, great circles are >>>>> geodesics. Their properties follow from the metric and can be >>>>> measured: >>>>> triangle angle sums, distances, curvature, etc. >>>>> >>>>> Changing the word "straight" changes nothing. >>>>> >>>>> Likewise with GPS. >>>>> >>>>> Relativity predicted BEFORE the NTS-2 launch: >>>>> >>>>> +446.5 x 10^-12 >>>>> >>>>> With the correction disabled, the clock measured: >>>>> >>>>> +442.5 x 10^-12 >>>>> >>>>> Calling the clock "perfect", "junk", or "a banana" changes neither >>>>> number. >>>>> >>>>> Ironically, your title is exactly right: >>>>> >>>>> Words have power. >>>>> >>>>> But apparently only in your physics, where renaming a measured >>>>> frequency shift "clock error" makes a quantitative prediction >>>>> disappear. >>>>> >>>>> In geometry and experimental physics, unfortunately, the numbers >>>>> remain >>>>> there after the vocabulary lesson. >>>> >>>> Indeed, and physics in general is about those things >>>> that do not depend on the words used to describe them. >>>> Like the number +446.5 x 10^-12 for example. >>>> If it depends on words it isn't physics, >>>> >>>> Jan >>>> >>> >>> Au contraire, semantics after syntax for symbols about signs >>> is what makes any sort of "interpreted in the model" possible. >>> >>> "Use your words", is a common admonition to infants. >> >> Physics isn't for infants. >> >>> Mathematical physics, then, about the mathematical model and >>> the physical and interpreting the mathematical model in the >>> physical model and interpreting the physical model in the >>> mathematical model: depends on language, thus words. >> >> Thanks for the perfect illustration, >> >> Jan >> > > Foundations: of reason, logic, mathematics, > and for science and physics: also includes > accounts of language and grammar. > > It's a sole Foundations. > > > The technical philosophy isn't necessarily the > techno-analytic philosophy, and it's both, > combining the teleological and analytical traditions, > for strong mathematical platonism and logicist positivism. > > > > Accounts of perspective & projection, > for geometry & motion, > with an axiomless geometry after point & space, > has for complementary duals and paradox-free reason, > accounts why reason brings this and it's so, > the logos, with matheosis and fusis and metafusis. > > Theoria, .... > > > These are among reasons why theatheory is "The A-Theory". > > > Foundations is for all the marbles. > > Something like my video essay "Reading Foundations: Leibnitz/Liebniz study" gets right into Foundations and includes accounts of language. A researcher and reader in Foundations elucidates.
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| From | nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 21:39 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <1s37268.1on3gep17wpnuvN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> |
| In reply to | #674593 |
Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote: > On 10/18/2026 03:30 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote: > > Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> On 10/17/2026 01:37 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote: > >>> Python <python@cccp.invalid> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Maciej, > >>>> > >>>> Your two examples actually illustrate the same mistake. > >>>> > >>>> In non-Euclidean geometry, nobody gets a new geometry merely by > >>>> "calling circles straight lines". > >>>> > >>>> A geodesic is defined by the geometry. On a sphere, great circles are > >>>> geodesics. Their properties follow from the metric and can be measured: > >>>> triangle angle sums, distances, curvature, etc. > >>>> > >>>> Changing the word "straight" changes nothing. > >>>> > >>>> Likewise with GPS. > >>>> > >>>> Relativity predicted BEFORE the NTS-2 launch: > >>>> > >>>> +446.5 x 10^-12 > >>>> > >>>> With the correction disabled, the clock measured: > >>>> > >>>> +442.5 x 10^-12 > >>>> > >>>> Calling the clock "perfect", "junk", or "a banana" changes neither > >>>> number. > >>>> > >>>> Ironically, your title is exactly right: > >>>> > >>>> Words have power. > >>>> > >>>> But apparently only in your physics, where renaming a measured > >>>> frequency shift "clock error" makes a quantitative prediction disappear. > >>>> > >>>> In geometry and experimental physics, unfortunately, the numbers remain > >>>> there after the vocabulary lesson. > >>> > >>> Indeed, and physics in general is about those things > >>> that do not depend on the words used to describe them. > >>> Like the number +446.5 x 10^-12 for example. > >>> If it depends on words it isn't physics, > >>> > >>> Jan > >>> > >> > >> Au contraire, semantics after syntax for symbols about signs > >> is what makes any sort of "interpreted in the model" possible. > >> > >> "Use your words", is a common admonition to infants. > > > > Physics isn't for infants. > > > >> Mathematical physics, then, about the mathematical model and > >> the physical and interpreting the mathematical model in the > >> physical model and interpreting the physical model in the > >> mathematical model: depends on language, thus words. > > > > Thanks for the perfect illustration, > > > > Jan > > > > Foundations: of reason, logic, mathematics, > and for science and physics: also includes > accounts of language and grammar. > > It's a sole Foundations. > > > The technical philosophy isn't necessarily the > techno-analytic philosophy, and it's both, > combining the teleological and analytical traditions, > for strong mathematical platonism and logicist positivism. > > > > Accounts of perspective & projection, > for geometry & motion, > with an axiomless geometry after point & space, > has for complementary duals and paradox-free reason, > accounts why reason brings this and it's so, > the logos, with matheosis and fusis and metafusis. > > Theoria, .... > > > These are among reasons why theatheory is "The A-Theory". > > > Foundations is for all the marbles. More words, no physics, Jan
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| From | Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-19 00:56 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <D7CdnbQ5tuy_UEj3nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #674612 |
On 10/18/2026 12:39 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote: > Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 10/18/2026 03:30 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote: >>> Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 10/17/2026 01:37 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote: >>>>> Python <python@cccp.invalid> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Maciej, >>>>>> >>>>>> Your two examples actually illustrate the same mistake. >>>>>> >>>>>> In non-Euclidean geometry, nobody gets a new geometry merely by >>>>>> "calling circles straight lines". >>>>>> >>>>>> A geodesic is defined by the geometry. On a sphere, great circles are >>>>>> geodesics. Their properties follow from the metric and can be measured: >>>>>> triangle angle sums, distances, curvature, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> Changing the word "straight" changes nothing. >>>>>> >>>>>> Likewise with GPS. >>>>>> >>>>>> Relativity predicted BEFORE the NTS-2 launch: >>>>>> >>>>>> +446.5 x 10^-12 >>>>>> >>>>>> With the correction disabled, the clock measured: >>>>>> >>>>>> +442.5 x 10^-12 >>>>>> >>>>>> Calling the clock "perfect", "junk", or "a banana" changes neither >>>>>> number. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ironically, your title is exactly right: >>>>>> >>>>>> Words have power. >>>>>> >>>>>> But apparently only in your physics, where renaming a measured >>>>>> frequency shift "clock error" makes a quantitative prediction disappear. >>>>>> >>>>>> In geometry and experimental physics, unfortunately, the numbers remain >>>>>> there after the vocabulary lesson. >>>>> >>>>> Indeed, and physics in general is about those things >>>>> that do not depend on the words used to describe them. >>>>> Like the number +446.5 x 10^-12 for example. >>>>> If it depends on words it isn't physics, >>>>> >>>>> Jan >>>>> >>>> >>>> Au contraire, semantics after syntax for symbols about signs >>>> is what makes any sort of "interpreted in the model" possible. >>>> >>>> "Use your words", is a common admonition to infants. >>> >>> Physics isn't for infants. >>> >>>> Mathematical physics, then, about the mathematical model and >>>> the physical and interpreting the mathematical model in the >>>> physical model and interpreting the physical model in the >>>> mathematical model: depends on language, thus words. >>> >>> Thanks for the perfect illustration, >>> >>> Jan >>> >> >> Foundations: of reason, logic, mathematics, >> and for science and physics: also includes >> accounts of language and grammar. >> >> It's a sole Foundations. >> >> >> The technical philosophy isn't necessarily the >> techno-analytic philosophy, and it's both, >> combining the teleological and analytical traditions, >> for strong mathematical platonism and logicist positivism. >> >> >> >> Accounts of perspective & projection, >> for geometry & motion, >> with an axiomless geometry after point & space, >> has for complementary duals and paradox-free reason, >> accounts why reason brings this and it's so, >> the logos, with matheosis and fusis and metafusis. >> >> Theoria, .... >> >> >> These are among reasons why theatheory is "The A-Theory". >> >> >> Foundations is for all the marbles. > > More words, no physics, > > Jan > Actually, a _continuum_ makes for the great account of both least-action/least-gradient and sum-of-histories/sum-of-potentials, for a potentialistic setting where the potential fields are the real fields, with an actual account explaining the tetrads of quantities and accounts of forces/fields, for a sort of "strong mathematical universe hypothesis", then besides that things like Euclidean geometry and Archimedean arithmetic arrive from lesser-axiomatized principled accounts, thus also do accounts for physics. So, since "Foundations" is a strong mathematical platonism before a strong logicist positivism, then as well there's a ground for a strong mathematical universe hypothesis, for natural science (physics). Mathematical physics is mathematical. Accounts of F-Lorentzians and R-Schroedingerians then also make it quite so that the formalism has an account for real space-contraction and real wave-collapse, about the energy & entelechy of dynamis & dunamis, more words that any account of Physics always has. Boop boop, does compute.
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| From | Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 09:15 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Words have power (perspective geomtry) |
| Message-ID | <Qtacna1xruO1Ak73nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #674529 |
On 10/17/2026 12:11 AM, Maciej Woźniak wrote: > When you're calling circles (great circles of > a sphere) "straight lines" - you're getting > another (riemannian) geometry. > > When you're calling your unusable junk "perfect > clocks" - you're getting another (einsteinian) > physics. > > Your moronic experiments are of no significance. > Well, maybe of SOME significance. > There are many matter of "projection & perspective". For example, a circle viewed at a moment on-edge appears a line. Various accounts of "non-Euclidean" geometries are accounts of many changing perspectives and projections all tied together. Then, besides, optics has its things going on, for example how the Moon or Sun crests or drops under a hill, the image really does so, accounts of "Occult Fresnel". Ancient civilizations like the Sumerians already had accounts of divisions of the sky and horizon. Then, with accounts of physics where "the observer independent" is actually unstatedly "dependent on all observers", or, the local, makes for that accounts of perspective geometry are partial. There's even about why eyeballs are spherical instead of like the sensors of an insect or camera panel, because both "parallax" and "peripheral parallax" are real, with regards to imaging. The Riemann tensor is disconnected, about that the Regge map and Ricci tensor supposedly make back together a continuous manifold of things, that then with there being both a metric (length) and norm (distance) everywhere, and the affine and all, then for the torsional, that agreeably it's all Euclidean, the geometry.
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| From | Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 18:57 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Words have power (perspective geometry) |
| Message-ID | <7tGcnXT4KLUMukn3nZ2dnZfqnPtDZj7M@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #674533 |
On 10/17/2026 09:15 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: > On 10/17/2026 12:11 AM, Maciej Woźniak wrote: >> When you're calling circles (great circles of >> a sphere) "straight lines" - you're getting >> another (riemannian) geometry. >> >> When you're calling your unusable junk "perfect >> clocks" - you're getting another (einsteinian) >> physics. >> >> Your moronic experiments are of no significance. >> Well, maybe of SOME significance. >> > > There are many matter of "projection & perspective". > > For example, a circle viewed at a moment on-edge > appears a line. > > > Various accounts of "non-Euclidean" geometries are > accounts of many changing perspectives and projections > all tied together. > > > Then, besides, optics has its things going on, for > example how the Moon or Sun crests or drops under a hill, > the image really does so, accounts of "Occult Fresnel". > Ancient civilizations like the Sumerians already had > accounts of divisions of the sky and horizon. > > > Then, with accounts of physics where "the observer > independent" is actually unstatedly "dependent on > all observers", or, the local, makes for that accounts > of perspective geometry are partial. > > > There's even about why eyeballs are spherical instead > of like the sensors of an insect or camera panel, > because both "parallax" and "peripheral parallax" > are real, with regards to imaging. > > > The Riemann tensor is disconnected, about that > the Regge map and Ricci tensor supposedly make > back together a continuous manifold of things, > that then with there being both a metric (length) > and norm (distance) everywhere, and the affine > and all, then for the torsional, that agreeably > it's all Euclidean, the geometry. > > Like you never heard of "projective geometry" before, then "perspective geometry" brings the observer. Point(s) at infinity.
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