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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #423285 > unrolled thread

Does Light Really Exist.

Started by"HGW..." <hgw@....>
First post2017-06-23 09:36 +1000
Last post2017-07-19 19:32 +1000
Articles 20 on this page of 113 — 26 participants

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Contents

  Does Light Really Exist. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-23 09:36 +1000
    Re: Does Light Really Exist. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-06-23 10:49 +1000
      Re: Does Light Really Exist. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-22 23:37 -0700
        Re: Does Light Really Exist. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-06-23 17:09 +1000
          Re: Does Light Really Exist. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-23 00:36 -0700
      Re: Does Light Really Exist. Lipek Mniak <iluka@sskwpiw.pp> - 2017-06-23 11:08 +0000
        Re: Does Light Really Exist. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-06-23 16:49 -0400
          Re: Does Light Really Exist. Valok Planek <lkupuu@kwklewan.oo> - 2017-06-24 10:21 +0000
    Re: Does Light Really Exist. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-22 18:53 -0700
      Re: Does Light Really Exist. Valok Planek <lkupuu@kwklewan.oo> - 2017-06-24 10:50 +0000
        Re: Does Light Really Exist. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-24 04:29 -0700
          Re: Does Light Really Exist. Valok Planek <lkupuu@kwklewan.oo> - 2017-06-24 11:42 +0000
    Re: Does Light Really Exist. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-23 07:34 -0500
      Re: Does Light Really Exist. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-06-23 16:55 -0400
      Re: Does Light Really Exist. Itu Ikosaku <tkiuu@iotkswwwswu.si> - 2017-06-25 09:43 +0000
    Re: Does Light Really Exist. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-23 09:08 -0500
      Re: Does Light Really Exist. pcardinale@volcanomail.com - 2017-06-23 12:14 -0700
        Re: Does Light Really Exist. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-06-23 16:57 -0400
      Re: Does Light Really Exist. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-23 22:40 +0200
      Re: Does Light Really Exist. Iorgas Gerakis <grura@agsiskswk.ai> - 2017-06-24 12:10 +0000
      Re: Does Light Really Exist. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-24 08:42 -0500
        Re: Does Light Really Exist. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-24 16:28 +0200
          Re: Does Light Really Exist. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-24 23:08 -0500
            Re: Does Light Really Exist. "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-24 21:40 -0700
              Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-25 14:56 +1000
                Re: Does Light Really Exist. "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-24 22:14 -0700
                  Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-26 11:16 +1000
                    Re: Does Light Really Exist. "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-25 18:54 -0700
                      Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-26 19:30 +1000
                Re: Does Light Really Exist. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-25 10:21 -0500
                  Re: Does Light Really Exist. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-25 22:23 +0200
                    Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-26 19:50 +1000
                      Re: Does Light Really Exist. "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-26 06:03 -0700
                      Re: Does Light Really Exist. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-26 10:05 -0500
                        Re: Does Light Really Exist. "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-26 08:23 -0700
                        Re: Does Light Really Exist. Jim Petroff <ruuri@twjotr.eo> - 2017-06-26 15:43 +0000
                        Re: Does Light Really Exist. "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-26 09:19 -0700
                        Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-27 08:15 +1000
                        Re: Does Light Really Exist. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-30 17:43 +0200
                          Re: Does Light Really Exist. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-30 11:36 -0700
                          Re: Does Light Really Exist. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-07-05 11:20 -0500
                            Re: Does Light Really Exist. Oveho Trofyzikovu <zfeuur@ceuuwi.ku> - 2017-07-05 17:10 +0000
                            Re: Does Light Really Exist. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-07-06 03:49 +0200
                              Re: Does Light Really Exist. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-07-06 11:11 -0500
                            Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-06 20:19 +1000
                              Re: Does Light Really Exist. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 09:05 -0500
                              Re: Does Light Really Exist. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-06 20:40 +0000
                                Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-07 09:43 +1000
                                  Re: Does Light Really Exist. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-07 22:49 +0000
                              Re: Does Light Really Exist. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-07-07 09:11 -0500
                                Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-08 09:44 +1000
                                  Re: Does Light Really Exist. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-07-08 00:09 -0500
                                    Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-09 10:06 +1000
                                      Re: Does Light Really Exist. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-07-08 18:01 -0700
                                        Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-09 12:56 +1000
                                          Re: Does Light Really Exist. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-07-08 20:45 -0700
                                      Re: Does Light Really Exist. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-07-10 09:50 -0500
                                        Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-11 10:58 +1000
                                          Re: Does Light Really Exist. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-07-10 19:58 -0700
                                          Re: Does Light Really Exist. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-07-10 23:57 -0500
                                            Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-12 08:22 +1000
                                          Re: Does Light Really Exist. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-11 14:54 +0000
                                            Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-12 08:23 +1000
                                              Re: Does Light Really Exist. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-12 03:07 +0000
                                                Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-13 09:42 +1000
                                                  Re: Does Light Really Exist. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-13 03:15 +0000
                                                    Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-14 09:34 +1000
                                                      Re: Does Light Really Exist. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-14 05:24 +0000
                                                        Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-19 10:20 +1000
                                                          Re: Does Light Really Exist. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-19 15:20 +0200
                                                          Re: Does Light Really Exist. Michael Moroney <moroney@TheWorld.com> - 2017-07-19 19:56 +0000
                      Re: Does Light Really Exist. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-30 17:40 +0200
                        Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-03 11:37 +1000
                  Re: Does Light Really Exist. "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-26 07:26 -0700
                    Re: Does Light Really Exist. "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-26 07:42 -0700
                      Re: Does Light Really Exist. "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-26 07:51 -0700
                Re: Does Light Really Exist. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-25 23:58 +0200
                  Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-26 19:52 +1000
                    Re: Does Light Really Exist. "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-26 06:06 -0700
                      Re: Does Light Really Exist. "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-26 06:14 -0700
                    Re: Does Light Really Exist. Jim Petroff <ruuri@twjotr.eo> - 2017-06-26 15:39 +0000
            Re: Does Light Really Exist. Ernardin Ignace <ee@wrrawiwidir.ic> - 2017-06-25 09:13 +0000
            Re: Does Light Really Exist. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-06-25 11:50 +0200
              Re: Does Light Really Exist. Itu Ikosaku <tkiuu@iotkswwwswu.si> - 2017-06-25 10:00 +0000
                Re: Does Light Really Exist. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-06-25 12:20 +0200
                  Re: Does Light Really Exist. Itu Ikosaku <tkiuu@iotkswwwswu.si> - 2017-06-25 10:40 +0000
                    Re: Does Light Really Exist. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-06-25 17:33 +0200
                      Re: Does Light Really Exist. Jim Petroff <ruuri@twjotr.eo> - 2017-06-26 15:49 +0000
                        Re: Does Light Really Exist. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-06-26 18:31 +0200
                          Re: Does Light Really Exist. Jim Petroff <ruuri@twjotr.eo> - 2017-06-26 18:12 +0000
              Re: Does Light Really Exist. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-06-25 12:14 +0200
            Re: Does Light Really Exist. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-25 12:05 +0200
              Re: Does Light Really Exist. Itu Ikosaku <tkiuu@iotkswwwswu.si> - 2017-06-25 10:10 +0000
                Re: Does Light Really Exist. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-25 12:33 +0200
                  Re: Does Light Really Exist. Itu Ikosaku <tkiuu@iotkswwwswu.si> - 2017-06-25 10:48 +0000
        Re: Does Light Really Exist. Poutnik <Poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-06-24 16:40 +0200
        Re: Does Light Really Exist. Iorgas Gerakis <grura@agsiskswk.ai> - 2017-06-24 17:28 +0000
      Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-25 09:20 +1000
        Re: Does Light Really Exist. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-24 17:04 -0700
          Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-25 10:44 +1000
            Re: Does Light Really Exist. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-24 17:54 -0700
        Re: Does Light Really Exist. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-25 03:14 +0000
          Re: Does Light Really Exist. "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-24 20:50 -0700
          Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-25 15:05 +1000
            Re: Does Light Really Exist. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-25 16:37 -0500
              Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-26 11:47 +1000
              Re: Does Light Really Exist. Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-06-26 18:02 +0200
                Re: Does Light Really Exist. Jim Petroff <ruuri@twjotr.eo> - 2017-06-26 16:30 +0000
    Re: Does Light Really Exist. numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-06-26 16:31 -0700
    Re: Does Light Really Exist. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-07-13 23:30 -0700
      Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-19 10:24 +1000
        Re: Does Light Really Exist. gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-07-19 01:26 -0700
          Re: Does Light Really Exist. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-19 19:32 +1000

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#423363

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2017-06-24 08:42 -0500
Message-ID<GrGdnQTmnJCx8dPEnZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#423324
On 6/23/17 6/23/17   3:39 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Tom Roberts wrote:
>> […] a person won't see a light ray unless it intersects her eye.
> 
> IIUC, according to at least two official definitions of “(light) ray”, that
> is not true:
> [...]

THINK about what you are saying.

When an original light ray scatters, and you see the scattered light, you do NOT 
see the original ray, you see the rays of the scattered light -- but only those 
that intersect your eye.

Tom Roberts

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#423364

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2017-06-24 16:28 +0200
Message-ID<1584603.3VsfAaAtOV@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#423363
Tom Roberts wrote:

> On 6/23/17 6/23/17   3:39 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Tom Roberts wrote:
>>> […] a person won't see a light ray unless it intersects her eye.
>> IIUC, according to at least two official definitions of “(light) ray”,
>> that is not true:
>> [...]
> 
> THINK about what you are saying.
> 
> When an original light ray scatters, and you see the scattered light, you
> do NOT see the original ray, you see the rays of the scattered light --
> but only those that intersect your eye.

The ray, according to the definitions that I cited, points in the direction 
of the energy flow.  So when you see the ray, it does not intersect your 
eye.  Or, IOW, it is not *this* ray that intersects your eye then.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#423403

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2017-06-24 23:08 -0500
Message-ID<-vqdnXK3LNraqtLEnZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#423364
On 6/24/17 6/24/17   9:28 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Tom Roberts wrote:
>> On 6/23/17 6/23/17   3:39 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> Tom Roberts wrote:
>>>> […] a person won't see a light ray unless it intersects her eye.
>>> IIUC, according to at least two official definitions of “(light) ray”,
>>> that is not true:
>>> [...]
>>
>> THINK about what you are saying.
>>
>> When an original light ray scatters, and you see the scattered light, you
>> do NOT see the original ray, you see the rays of the scattered light --
>> but only those that intersect your eye.
> 
> The ray, according to the definitions that I cited, points in the direction
> of the energy flow. 

I repeat: THINK about what you are saying.

> So when you see the ray, it does not intersect your
> eye. 

The ray that you see does intersect your eye, and there is indeed energy flowing 
into your eye, or you would not see anything.

> Or, IOW, it is not *this* ray that intersects your eye then.

You are too hung up on the ray you are thinking of, and don't recognize that by 
scattering it generates other rays, including the ones that are seen.

	Casually, when one puts a visible laser beam through a fog, one
	can "see" the path of the beam, and we say "I see the laser
	beam". But that is WRONG -- what is actually seen are the rays
	that are scattered by the fog from the laser beam into your eye.
	You INFER the path of the laser beam, because the visible rays
	all point back to the original laser beam and identify the path
	of the beam, even though you cannot actually see the beam (ray).

This is YOUR problem with words, and I won't continue. I cannot teach you how to 
read via a medium that requires reading. Nor do I care to.

Tom Roberts

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#423405

From"David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com>
Date2017-06-24 21:40 -0700
Message-ID<a7ce5991-4e9e-4360-ac7b-10e16958882b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#423403
tjrob137
On 6/24/17 6/24/17   9:28 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: 
> Tom Roberts wrote: 
>> On 6/23/17 6/23/17   3:39 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: 
>>> Tom Roberts wrote: 
>>>> […] a person won't see a light ray unless it intersects her eye. 
>>> IIUC, according to at least two official definitions of “(light) ray”, 
>>> that is not true: 
>>> [...] 
>> 
>> THINK about what you are saying. 
>> 
>> When an original light ray scatters, and you see the scattered light, you 
>> do NOT see the original ray, you see the rays of the scattered light -- 
>> but only those that intersect your eye. 
> 
> The ray, according to the definitions that I cited, points in the direction 
> of the energy flow. 

I repeat: THINK about what you are saying. 

> So when you see the ray, it does not intersect your 
> eye. 

The ray that you see does intersect your eye, and there is indeed energy flowing 
into your eye, or you would not see anything. 

> Or, IOW, it is not *this* ray that intersects your eye then. 

You are too hung up on the ray you are thinking of, and don't recognize that by 
scattering it generates other rays, including the ones that are seen. 

        Casually, when one puts a visible laser beam through a fog, one 
        can "see" the path of the beam, and we say "I see the laser 
        beam". But that is WRONG -- what is actually seen are the rays 
        that are scattered by the fog from the laser beam into your eye. 
        You INFER the path of the laser beam, because the visible rays 
        all point back to the original laser beam and identify the path 
        of the beam, even though you cannot actually see the beam (ray). 

This is YOUR problem with words, and I won't continue. I cannot teach you how to 
read via a medium that requires reading. Nor do I care to. 

Tom Roberts 

If the (photons in flight) could be seen, they would not be quantatized anymore and would be dissipating energy while simply "In Flight". 

The Vacuum Space time has all the properties of a perfect Lossless Frictionless Fluid which is exactly what would be required for Photons to complete a 13 billion year journey as they have been doing. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#423406

From"HGW..." <hgw@....>
Date2017-06-25 14:56 +1000
Message-ID<oinfpq$1d4j$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#423405
On 25/06/17 14:40, David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller wrote:
> tjrob137 On 6/24/17 6/24/17   9:28 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn

> 
> Casually, when one puts a visible laser beam through a fog, one can
> "see" the path of the beam, and we say "I see the laser beam". But
> that is WRONG -- what is actually seen are the rays that are
> scattered by the fog from the laser beam into your eye. 

You see an 'intermittent beam' from each point in the fog....proving 
that light is particulate.

You INFER the
> path of the laser beam, because the visible rays all point back to
> the original laser beam and identify the path of the beam, even
> though you cannot actually see the beam (ray).
> 
> This is YOUR problem with words, and I won't continue. I cannot teach
> you how to read via a medium that requires reading. Nor do I care
> to.
> 
> Tom Roberts
> 
> If the (photons in flight) could be seen, they would not be
> quantatized anymore and would be dissipating energy while simply "In
> Flight".
> 
> The Vacuum Space time has all the properties of a perfect Lossless
> Frictionless Fluid which is exactly what would be required for
> Photons to complete a 13 billion year journey as they have been
> doing.

Naturally light loses energy as it travels. How could it not?

That's why there is a cosmic red shift roughly proportional to the 
source distance from Earth.
If the BB theory was correct, the observed red shift would not be 
symmetrical around our planet unless the Earth was the centre of the 
universe...which is what many good christians want to believe.



-- 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#423410

From"David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com>
Date2017-06-24 22:14 -0700
Message-ID<bc12e7e4-cb7f-4667-b397-55790b61273b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#423406
Jun 24HGW...
On 25/06/17 14:40, David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller wrote: 
> tjrob137 On 6/24/17 6/24/17   9:28 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn 

> 
> Casually, when one puts a visible laser beam through a fog, one can 
> "see" the path of the beam, and we say "I see the laser beam". But 
> that is WRONG -- what is actually seen are the rays that are 
> scattered by the fog from the laser beam into your eye. 

You see an 'intermittent beam' from each point in the fog....proving 
that light is particulate. 

You INFER the 
> path of the laser beam, because the visible rays all point back to 
> the original laser beam and identify the path of the beam, even 
> though you cannot actually see the beam (ray). 
> 
> This is YOUR problem with words, and I won't continue. I cannot teach 
> you how to read via a medium that requires reading. Nor do I care 
> to. 
> 
> Tom Roberts 
> 
> If the (photons in flight) could be seen, they would not be 
> quantatized anymore and would be dissipating energy while simply "In 
> Flight". 
> 
> The Vacuum Space time has all the properties of a perfect Lossless 
> Frictionless Fluid which is exactly what would be required for 
> Photons to complete a 13 billion year journey as they have been 
> doing. 

Naturally light loses energy as it travels. How could it not? 

That's why there is a cosmic red shift roughly proportional to the 
source distance from Earth. 
If the BB theory was correct, the observed red shift would not be 
symmetrical around our planet unless the Earth was the centre of the 
universe...which is what many good christians want to believe. 

No... Spacetime as a perfect frictionless Lossless Fluid solves the homogeneity & isotropy of the Big Bang CMBR 
Redshift would be simply entropy of the entire system 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#423455

From"HGW..." <hgw@....>
Date2017-06-26 11:16 +1000
Message-ID<oipn8o$r8s$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#423410
On 25/06/17 15:14, David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller wrote:
> Jun 24HGW...

> 
> Naturally light loses energy as it travels. How could it not?
> 
> That's why there is a cosmic red shift roughly proportional to the 
> source distance from Earth. If the BB theory was correct, the
> observed red shift would not be symmetrical around our planet unless
> the Earth was the centre of the universe...which is what many good
> christians want to believe.
> 
> No... Spacetime as a perfect frictionless Lossless Fluid solves the
> homogeneity & isotropy of the Big Bang CMBR Redshift would be simply
> entropy of the entire system

Poor fellow. I feel sorry for you.
Spacetime is not a physical entity. It is a graph.



-- 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#423457

From"David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com>
Date2017-06-25 18:54 -0700
Message-ID<2da7df68-fd2f-4086-820a-c4b16dc540df@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#423455
HGW...
On 25/06/17 15:14, David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller wrote: 
> Jun 24HGW... 

> 
> Naturally light loses energy as it travels. How could it not? 
> 
> That's why there is a cosmic red shift roughly proportional to the 
> source distance from Earth. If the BB theory was correct, the 
> observed red shift would not be symmetrical around our planet unless 
> the Earth was the centre of the universe...which is what many good 
> christians want to believe. 
> 
> No... Spacetime as a perfect frictionless Lossless Fluid solves the 
> homogeneity & isotropy of the Big Bang CMBR Redshift would be simply 
> entropy of the entire system 

Poor fellow. I feel sorry for you. 
Spacetime is not a physical entity. 
It is a graph. 

How about you jump out a window from the 30th floor, and see for yourself if falling through real space time 300 feet is a real thing...



-- 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#423468

From"HGW, DSc." <HG@....>
Date2017-06-26 19:30 +1000
Message-ID<oiqk46$1vg$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#423457
On 26/06/17 11:54, David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller wrote:
> HGW... On 25/06/17 15:14, David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller wrote:

>>
>> No... Spacetime as a perfect frictionless Lossless Fluid solves the
>>  homogeneity & isotropy of the Big Bang CMBR Redshift would be
>> simply entropy of the entire system
>
> Poor fellow. I feel sorry for you. Spacetime is not a physical
> entity. It is a graph.
>
> How about you jump out a window from the 30th floor, and see for
> yourself if falling through real space time 300 feet is a real
> thing..

Poor fellow...Nothing MOVES in spacetime.

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#423431

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2017-06-25 10:21 -0500
Message-ID<GuudnYwQyYeOSNLEnZ2dnUU7_8xi4p2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#423406
On 6/24/17 6/24/17   11:56 PM, HGW... wrote:
> Naturally light loses energy as it travels. How could it not?

What MAGIC would cause energy loss? Light could travel from distant galaxies to 
earth without losing significant energy if there is no mechanism to cause it to 
lose energy.

Given the MEASURED density in inter-galactic space, and the MEASURED 
interactions between light and the atoms composing the gas in inter-galactic 
space, one concludes this is nowhere near large enough to induce the observed 
redshift. Moreover, the statistical character of those interactions would smear 
out or destroy the atomic lines in such light, but that structure is preserved 
(albeit redshifted).

	The primary interaction is scattering the light, not making
	it lose energy. That would smear out images of distant galaxies
	and make them appear dimmer, not change the energies of atomic
	lines. Observations put upper limits that are completely
	inconsistent with your claim.

Again you merely display your COLOSSAL IGNORANCE of physics.

> If the BB theory was correct, the observed red shift would not be symmetrical 
> around our planet unless the Earth was the centre of the universe.

Nope. Again you merely display your COLOSSAL IGNORANCE of very basic physics.

Tom Roberts

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#423447

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2017-06-25 22:23 +0200
Message-ID<34055806.10thIPus4b@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#423431
Tom Roberts wrote:

> On 6/24/17 6/24/17   11:56 PM, HGW... wrote:
>> Naturally light loses energy as it travels. How could it not?

Good grief.  A “tired light” believer, too?  What’s next, “flat Earth”?

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tired_light>

(in a nutshell: it was refuted by observation by and from the 1990s)

> What MAGIC would cause energy loss? Light could travel from distant
> galaxies to earth without losing significant energy if there is no
> mechanism to cause it to lose energy. […]

Full ACK.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#423470

From"HGW, DSc." <HG@....>
Date2017-06-26 19:50 +1000
Message-ID<oiql97$4fg$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#423447
On 26/06/17 06:23, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Tom Roberts wrote:
>
>> On 6/24/17 6/24/17   11:56 PM, HGW... wrote:
>>> Naturally light loses energy as it travels. How could it not?
>
> Good grief.  A “tired light” believer, too?  What’s next, “flat Earth”?
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tired_light>
>
> (in a nutshell: it was refuted by observation by and from the 1990s)
>
>> What MAGIC would cause energy loss? Light could travel from distant
>> galaxies to earth without losing significant energy if there is no
>> mechanism to cause it to lose energy. […]
>
> Full ACK.

Light interacts weakly with other EM, particularly in very high vacuum. 
The fields overlap. It is also affected by all the stray matter but with 
very little dispersion. The lost energy goes into the CMBR.

You know light imparts momentum to anything it strikes. ...and they 
reckon there are about 3 molecules per m3 in space. That causes a loss 
of energy and also an increase in entropy.

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#423480

From"David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com>
Date2017-06-26 06:03 -0700
Message-ID<56e94c80-cb70-4839-8388-28b9a5d615e3@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#423470
4:48 AMHGW, DSc.
On 26/06/17 06:23, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: 
> Tom Roberts wrote: 
> 
>> On 6/24/17 6/24/17   11:56 PM, HGW... wrote: 
>>> Naturally light loses energy as it travels. How could it not? 
> 
> Good grief.  A “tired light” believer, too?  What’s next, “flat Earth”? 
> 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tired_light> 
> 
> (in a nutshell: it was refuted by observation by and from the 1990s) 
> 
>> What MAGIC would cause energy loss? Light could travel from distant 
>> galaxies to earth without losing significant energy if there is no 
>> mechanism to cause it to lose energy. […] 
> 
> Full ACK. 

Light interacts weakly with other EM, particularly in very high vacuum. 
The fields overlap. It is also affected by all the stray matter but with 
very little dispersion. The lost energy goes into the CMBR. 

You know light imparts momentum to anything it strikes. 

...and they 
reckon there are about 3 molecules per m3 in space. 

That causes a loss of energy and also an increase in entropy. 

Imbecile HGW, you are just rambling shit out of that Dumpster Fire Brain of yours. 

0.22360679775 AMU per cubic Meter 

(((6.6740800122e-11)/2 (newtons / (meters^2))) / (3.71295775e-28 (kg / (meter^3))))^0.5 = 299792458 m / s 

https://sites.google.com/site/lordkronosprime/friedmann-density-kg

https://sites.google.com/site/lordkronosprime/-space-time-as-a-frictionless-superfluid

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#423493

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2017-06-26 10:05 -0500
Message-ID<KNOdnZ0YgNotv8zEnZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#423470
On 6/26/17 6/26/17 - 4:50 AM, HGW, DSc. wrote:
> Light interacts weakly with other EM, particularly in very high vacuum.

Hmnmmm. Not directly. In our best theory of light (QED), it interacts only with 
charged particles [#]. But the vacuum has lots of virtual charged particles with 
which a light ray can interact. But when one CALCULATES this, one finds that all 
the different virtual particles cancel out, and the light ray propagates without 
significant energy loss or direction change.

	[#] I.e. that is the only vertex involving photons.

> The lost energy goes into the CMBR.

This is just Wilson making things up and pretending they are true. This is 
COMPLETELY WRONG.

	Visible light does scatter from gas, and we have MEASURED
	it. For the density of intergalactic space this is completely
	negligible. But even if it were not, the scattered light
	(which of course represents the energy lost by the original
	light ray) remains visible (these photons are within a few
	percent of the energy of the initial photons). The CMBR photons
	are MANY orders of magnitude lower energy than this.

Wilson just displays his COMPLETE IGNORANCE of basic physics.

Tom Roberts

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#423494

From"David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com>
Date2017-06-26 08:23 -0700
Message-ID<c004d813-7ab5-40a3-a9bb-643325dd1c5f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#423493
On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 10:05:27 AM UTC-5, tjrob137 wrote:
> On 6/26/17 6/26/17 - 4:50 AM, HGW, DSc. wrote:
> > Light interacts weakly with other EM, particularly in very high vacuum.
> 
> Hmnmmm. Not directly. In our best theory of light (QED), it interacts only with 
> charged particles [#]. But the vacuum has lots of virtual charged particles with 
> which a light ray can interact. 

"But the vacuum has lots of virtual charged particles"

This is Just Tom Roberts Making Things Up ....

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#423496

FromJim Petroff <ruuri@twjotr.eo>
Date2017-06-26 15:43 +0000
Message-ID<oira25$1b9g$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#423493
Tom Roberts wrote:

> On 6/26/17 6/26/17 - 4:50 AM, HGW, DSc. wrote:
>> Light interacts weakly with other EM, particularly in very high vacuum.
> 
> Hmnmmm. Not directly. In our best theory of light (QED), it interacts
> only with charged particles [#]. But the vacuum has lots of virtual
> charged particles with which a light ray can interact. But when one
> CALCULATES this, one finds that all the different virtual particles
> cancel out, and the light ray propagates without significant energy loss
> or direction change.

Actually Dr. HGW is again consistent. Light, and generally EM, interacts 
with everything, even the sound wave. I am working right now on something 
involving EM and Ultrasound. You probably have a lot to catch up with. I 
don't know. I can only read what you write.
 
>> The lost energy goes into the CMBR.
> 
> This is just Wilson making things up and pretending they are true. This
> is COMPLETELY WRONG.

Would be strange if he were wrong.

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#423504

From"David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com>
Date2017-06-26 09:19 -0700
Message-ID<13dba606-09ab-472c-a4b2-099b63d62650@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#423493
On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 10:05:27 AM UTC-5, tjrob137 wrote:
> On 6/26/17 6/26/17 - 4:50 AM, HGW, DSc. wrote:
> > Light interacts weakly with other EM, particularly in very high vacuum.
> 
> Hmnmmm. Not directly. In our best theory of light (QED), it interacts only with 
> charged particles [#]. But the vacuum has lots of virtual charged particles with 
> which a light ray can interact. But when one CALCULATES this, one finds that all 
> the different virtual particles cancel out, and the light ray propagates without 
> significant energy loss or direction change.
> 
> 	[#] I.e. that is the only vertex involving photons.
> 
> > The lost energy goes into the CMBR.
> 
> This is just Wilson making things up and pretending they are true. This is 
> COMPLETELY WRONG.
> 
> 	Visible light does scatter from gas, and we have MEASURED
> 	it. For the density of intergalactic space this is completely
> 	negligible. But even if it were not, the scattered light
> 	(which of course represents the energy lost by the original
> 	light ray) remains visible (these photons are within a few
> 	percent of the energy of the initial photons). The CMBR photons
> 	are MANY orders of magnitude lower energy than this.
> 
> Wilson just displays his COMPLETE IGNORANCE of basic physics.
> 
> Tom Roberts

(Negative pressure of Centripetal laminar Flow (6.6740800122e-11/2) Pascals) / (Density of sphere = 3.71295775e-28 kg / meter^3)  = 299792458 m/s

(Bubble Pulsation) / 2Pi =  (Bubble Rotation)   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_%28physics%29#Pulsation

(G / 2) / (c^2) = 3.71295774e-28  kg/m^3 

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#423514

From"HGW..." <hgw@....>
Date2017-06-27 08:15 +1000
Message-ID<ois11c$nfm$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#423493
On 27/06/17 01:05, Tom Roberts wrote:
> On 6/26/17 6/26/17 - 4:50 AM, HGW, DSc. wrote:
>> Light interacts weakly with other EM, particularly in very high vacuum.
> 
> Hmnmmm. Not directly. In our best theory of light (QED), it interacts 
> only with charged particles [#]. But the vacuum has lots of virtual 
> charged particles with which a light ray can interact. But when one 
> CALCULATES this, one finds that all the different virtual particles 
> cancel out, and the light ray propagates without significant energy loss 
> or direction change.

Every such interaction is irreversible and involves an increase in 
Entropy. That also means a change in energy distribution. Why don't you 
learn some physics?

>      [#] I.e. that is the only vertex involving photons.
> 
>> The lost energy goes into the CMBR.
> 
> This is just Wilson making things up and pretending they are true. This 
> is COMPLETELY WRONG.

Much of the CMBR is a direct consequence of traveling light's loss of 
energy. The rest is black body radiation from (not quite empty) space at 
about 2.7K.

>      Visible light does scatter from gas, and we have MEASURED
>      it. 

The interaction of light with other EM, HEADING IN A SIMILAR DIRECTION, 
does not cause scattering. It is part of BaTh's 'UNIFICATION 
PROCESS'...discovered from studies of variable stars.

>     For the density of intergalactic space this is completely
>      negligible. But even if it were not, the scattered light
>      (which of course represents the energy lost by the original
>      light ray) remains visible (these photons are within a few
>      percent of the energy of the initial photons). The CMBR photons
>      are MANY orders of magnitude lower energy than this.

That's virtually what I said.

> Wilson just displays his COMPLETE IGNORANCE of basic physics.

Why don't you read messages properly and use your brain instead of 
raving like a pompous idiot?

> Tom Roberts


-- 

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#423676

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2017-06-30 17:43 +0200
Message-ID<2554147.SvYEEZNnvj@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#423493
Tom Roberts wrote:

> On 6/26/17 6/26/17 - 4:50 AM, HGW, DSc. wrote:
>> Light interacts weakly with other EM, particularly in very high vacuum.
> 
> Hmnmmm. Not directly.

I beg your pardon – “not *directly*”?  What do you think “interact weakly” 
and “EM” means (in Wilson’s world)?

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#423689

FromGary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com>
Date2017-06-30 11:36 -0700
Message-ID<c5ad934c-825d-46ba-8c4b-692805e98809@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#423676
On Friday, June 30, 2017 at 9:43:03 AM UTC-6, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Tom Roberts wrote:
> 
> > On 6/26/17 6/26/17 - 4:50 AM, HGW, DSc. wrote:
> >> Light interacts weakly with other EM, particularly in very high vacuum.
> > 
> > Hmnmmm. Not directly.
> 
> I beg your pardon – “not *directly*”?  What do you think “interact weakly” 
> and “EM” means (in Wilson’s world)?

No one can fathom the mind of a reality denier. Perhaps Roberts was
thinking of this:

http://www.jick.net/~jess/hr/skept/EMC2/node9.html

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