Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #467355
| From | benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.physics, sci.physics.relativity |
| Subject | Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. |
| Date | 2018-08-08 19:57 -0400 |
| Organization | Aioe.org NNTP Server |
| Message-ID | <pkg01c$19jp$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink) |
| References | (3 earlier) <7cudnSH91s0jWvTGnZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com> <pkdc26$15qf$1@gioia.aioe.org> <fsvjj0FcqkhU1@mid.individual.net> <pkev1m$1i19$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ft1bt1Fpgr4U1@mid.individual.net> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
On 8/8/2018 7:15 PM, Sylvia Else wrote: > On 9/08/2018 12:34 AM, benj wrote: >> On 8/8/2018 3:14 AM, Sylvia Else wrote: >>> On 8/08/2018 10:04 AM, benj wrote: >>>> On 8/7/2018 12:24 PM, Tom Roberts wrote: >>>>> On 8/7/18 3:53 AM, benj wrote: >>>>>> Are you talking mathematics or physics? >>>>> >>>>> Both -- the mathematical structure of current physical theories and >>>>> models. >>>>> >>>>>> Do you agree that agree with Odd that empty space containing no >>>>>> charges and hence produces no forces on test charges is not devoid >>>>>> of fields but actually is filled with an electric (an other types) >>>>>> of fields whose value is simply zero? >>>>> >>>>> Yes. Because if you believe Maxwell's equations apply, or if you >>>>> believe that QED applies, then you are FORCED to conclude there is >>>>> a corresponding electromagnetic field everywhere, including regions >>>>> in which it is zero (which really never happens). >>>>> >>>>> As I said before, this is INHERENT in what "field" means. >>>>> >>>>> Tom Roberts >>>> >>>> What you mean is that it is INHERENT in the definition what a vector >>>> field is, mathematically. (Note you must use the term vector field >>>> because otherwise the term can be confused with an algebraic field >>>> which is something else entirely, right?) >>>> >>>> A vector field starts with a region of some mathematical space and a >>>> vector quantity is assigned to each point (an infinite number of them) >>>> in that subspace. Therefore, by definition the vector field exists >>>> (assuming I have chosen to define one) even though all vectors at >>>> every point are zero. You and Odd win, right? Of course if I choose >>>> NOT to define a field in that space (reality is determined by my >>>> imagination, right?) then there is no field in that subspace only a >>>> coordinate system, unless I choose not to define one of those >>>> either, in which case there is no subspace existing at all and I >>>> win, right? >>>> >>>> Wrong. Mathematics is not more real than reality. In reality and in >>>> Maxwell theory in particular, the mathematics is only a model to >>>> describe what seems to be force field like phenomena produced by >>>> charges. People (Odd's textbooks) love to talk about "fields" as if >>>> they were real physical things. They are NOT. Forces are real, >>>> models are fantasy. Hence when charges are missing, there are no >>>> forces present in the subspace. People use the terminology that >>>> there are no "fields" there but as seen above that is mathematically >>>> wrong on several counts if someone has defined a null vector field >>>> there. And if a charge is suddenly placed in that subspace it is >>>> known that forces from it will NOT be measured immediately at a >>>> distance from it (unless we are talking ESP interactions) as the >>>> actions travel away from the source at velocity c. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Forces are as much models as fields are. Can you grab a force, and >>> take one home? >>> >>> All we ever have are models. Reality, if it exists, is forever out of >>> our reach. Even what we think we're perceiving through our senses is >>> nothing but an extrapolation that the brain makes based on models. >>> >>> Sylvia. >> >> Oh so you really have no training in science and are a liberal >> journalist who believes that all reality exists ONLY in your >> imagination and drug-soaked fantasies. Well, welcome to the crowd. >> That describes nearly all of those here pretending to discuss science. >> >> Forces can be MODELED but they are not models. Forces can move your >> silly ass. Mathematics exists only in fantasy. While it is true we do >> not have direct access to our optical and other sensor arrays and >> therefore perceive the data as algorithmic output, that does not imply >> that reality only exists as algorithmic fantasy. Although glasses >> provide algorithmic transformation of the images coming to your eyes, >> putting on your glasses does not mean that the world out there is now >> total fantasy. Are you one of those "the moon does not exist until >> somebody looks at it" idiots? >> >> Mathematics is not more real than reality. >> > > If you're going to engage in straw man argument and abuse, I can't be > bothered with you. > > Sylvia. Translation. You have nothing so you turn tail and run. (As you will recall (but certainly will lie about and deny) the abuse was started by YOU, If you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen and get a career in government)
Back to sci.physics.relativity | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 02:13 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tson Ylor <uo@srsysts.sd> - 2018-08-05 12:08 +0000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 13:06 +0000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 12:10 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 18:57 +0000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:33 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 18:07 +0000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 17:23 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 22:43 +0000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 04:39 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 13:45 +0000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 12:50 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-05 08:27 -0500
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tson Ylor <uo@srsysts.sg> - 2018-08-05 14:13 +0000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 12:23 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tson Ylor <uo@srsysts.sg> - 2018-08-05 17:47 +0000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:32 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Owen Scharff <nehh@fenohw.hp> - 2018-08-06 18:05 +0000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 17:15 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Owen Scharff <nehh@fenohw.hn> - 2018-08-07 09:21 +0000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2018-08-07 08:36 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 12:17 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 18:57 +0000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-05 13:20 -0700
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:39 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-06 19:22 -0500
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-05 18:41 -0500
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-05 22:50 -0500
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:51 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 13:08 -0500
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-08-07 11:40 +1000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 01:49 +0000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 04:53 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Owen Scharff <nehh@fenohw.hn> - 2018-08-07 10:02 +0000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-07 08:55 -0500
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 13:05 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-07 11:24 -0500
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 16:56 +0000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 20:04 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-08-08 09:05 +0200
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-08-08 17:14 +1000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 10:34 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-08-08 20:16 +0200
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-08-09 09:15 +1000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 19:57 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-08-09 11:48 +1000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 11:02 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-08 11:08 -0500
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 13:23 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-08-08 20:26 +0200
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-09 10:15 -0500
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 12:48 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-11 23:37 -0500
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Owen Scharff <nehh@fenvhw.ho> - 2018-08-12 11:31 +0000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Owen Scharff <nehh@fenvhw.ho> - 2018-08-12 11:34 +0000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-12 10:09 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-12 21:29 -0500
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Lovu Biftek <ufeli@fupuks.cl> - 2018-08-13 10:53 +0000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-08-13 04:08 -0700
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-13 11:41 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-13 10:02 -0700
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-13 17:36 +0000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-08-13 10:45 -0700
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-15 18:56 -0500
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 06:29 -0700
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 23:55 +0000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 10:58 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 15:26 +0000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 12:36 -0400
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 17:53 +0000
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-08-09 11:21 -0700
Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Owen Scharff <nehh@fenohw.hn> - 2018-08-08 11:12 +0000
Rub Odd's nose in it. Y <yanarchi@hotmail.com> - 2018-08-16 20:34 -0700
csiph-web