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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #456607
| From | Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.physics.relativity |
| Subject | Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR |
| Date | 2018-04-22 10:40 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <fk23vhFlig7U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | <pbb2bc$lf$1@gioia.aioe.org> <fjt378Fhm3hU1@mid.individual.net> <pbdj8f$1v3d$1@gioia.aioe.org> <fjvbd7F2r91U1@mid.individual.net> <pbev1i$1qkq$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
On 21/04/2018 7:08 PM, Dino Bruniera wrote: > Il 21/04/2018 01:28, Sylvia Else ha scritto: >> On 21/04/2018 6:40 AM, Dino Bruniera wrote: >>> Il 20/04/2018 04:56, Sylvia Else ha scritto: >>>> On 20/04/2018 7:39 AM, Dino Bruniera wrote: >>>>> Demonstration that on Earth (that is an inertial frame) the speed >>>>> of light cannot be isotropic and therefore cannot be c, so the >>>>> second postulate of Special Relativity (SR), which states that the >>>>> speed of light has the same value c in all inertial frames, is >>>>> falsified. >>>>> >>>>> The frequency of the photons of the CMBR measured on Earth, isn’t >>>> >>>> OK, this was the first clue that this was a crank post - the use of >>>> a non-standard abbreviation without a definition. >>>> >>> >>> If the abbreviation is CMBR, it may not be standard, but it is well >>> known. >>> Just do a search through google. >> >> In due course, I'll be able to find this one. Nevertheless, my point >> stands. >> > > CMBR = Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation > > I bring you what is written on wikipedia: > "The discovery of Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation constitutes a > major development in modern physical cosmology.". > > So if a person does not know what CMBR means, how can he discuss > physical cosmology? > However, I don't want to believe you don't know what CMBR means. You're conflating knowledge of the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation with knowledge of what CMBR stands for. > >>> >>> >>>>> Thought experiments >>>>> >>>>> Imagine the Universe as a big rubber ball with many points marked >>>>> on its surface (representing locations in space). Now imagine CMBR >>>>> photons as a set of cars that move on its surface at the constant >>>>> speed of 1 m/s. >>>>> Imagine then the Earth as a pickup truck that moves on the surface >>>>> of the sphere, but at a lower speed than 1 m/s, and let us suppose >>>>> that it is able to measure its speed against the cars. It would be >>>>> revealed that the cars approach the truck at different speeds >>>>> depending on the direction, and with suitable calculations it would >>>>> be possible to determine its speed with respect to the point it is >>>>> traversing. >>>>> For example, if the speed of only two of the cars coming from >>>>> opposite directions was measured by the truck, and these were >>>>> respectively 0.9 and 1.1 m/s, the difference would be 0.2 m/s and >>>>> its speed with respect to this point would be half, i.e., 0.1 m/s. >>>>> But if the truck measured a speed of 1 m/s for both of the cars >>>>> (which would represent the MMX experiment), it would mean that it >>>>> does not have adequate tools to detect the exact speed and not that >>>>> the cars are really moving towards it at a speed of 1 m/s, as this >>>>> would be impossible. >>>> >>>> You're assuming that the big-rubber ball universe obeys the laws of >>>> Galilean relativity. So you're assuming what you're trying to prove. >>>> >>> >>> I assume that the big-rubber ball universe obeys the laws of reality >>> and not that of a stipulation, like special relativity. >> >> So you're assuming that your conception of reality matches reality >> itself. Again, you're assuming what you're trying to prove. >> >> The experimental evidence is not consistent with your version reality. >> It might have been, but it isn't. Your version of reality is incorrect. >> > > I rely on the CMBR dipole anisotropy, which was measured by multiple > space missions: > COBE in 1989; > WMAP in 2001; > PLANK in 2009. > It shows that the Earth is moving at a speed of about 370 km / s > compared to the reference frame of the CMBR, which in practice > constitutes the space (or the aether, for those who want to define it > still in this way). > > However, I have already shown in the first part of the demonstration > that the Earth is moving with respect to the CMBR reference frame and > that, therefore, if the speed of the CMBR photons is isotropic towards > this reference frame, it cannot really be also towards the Earth. > > The second part, which you have "challenged", has only served to further > demonstrate that the speed of the CMBR photons cann't be isotropic on > the Earth, because their frequency isn't isotropic (also without > considering the aforementioned slight anisotropies) due to dipole > anisotropy. > > So I performed the demonstration in two different ways. > I don't know in what other ways the scientific community would like me > to prove it. > > As I wrote in the previous post, I think that the only way in which the > scientific community can "challenge" my demonstration is to state that > the special relativity would see the truck as an inertial frame and the > surface of the sphere as another inertial frame, which moves under it. > Which is a Ptolemaic view of reality. > And that I could "challenge" in turn, asking what the engine that drives > the wheels of the truck, would do. > But I already imagine what would be answered to me. > > However I think that only with a Ptolemaic view of reality, perhaps it > would be possible to "challenge" my demonstration. > But is a Ptolemaic view of reality, credible? > > Dino Bruniera > > That the background radiation spectrum is not the same in all directions is not in dispute. What is in dispute is that this implies that the photons have different speeds relative to the Earth. So far, your arguments have been circular. Special relativity provides a consistent model of reality derived inexorably from certain assumptions, one of which is that the laws of physics depend only on relative velocities. That does not in itself mean that it is right, but it does mean that any model in which the speed of light is shown to be not constant must contain an assumption that contradicts the assumptions on which special relativity is based. Thus attempting to show that special relativity is wrong by way of thought experiments is a fool's errand, because such attempts are necessarily circular. This approach is doomed to failure. It is a logical impossibility. It is an ex-parrot. The only way to get closer to the truth is through real experiments. Fortunately, many real experiments have been done, and the results are consistent with special relativity. Sylvia.
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Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Dino Bruniera <dino.bruniera@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 23:39 +0200
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-04-20 12:56 +1000
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Dino Bruniera <dino.bruniera@gmail.com> - 2018-04-20 22:40 +0200
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-04-21 09:28 +1000
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-04-20 17:42 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-20 17:45 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR pnalsing@gmail.com - 2018-04-20 17:48 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-04-21 16:08 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-04-20 21:09 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Dino Bruniera <dino.bruniera@gmail.com> - 2018-04-21 11:08 +0200
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-04-22 10:40 +1000
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Lofty Goat <rlwatkins@gmail.com> - 2018-04-22 12:01 -0500
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-04-22 18:53 +0100
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-04-23 12:14 +1000
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-04-23 08:26 +0100
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-04-23 19:57 +1000
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-23 05:50 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-04-23 05:26 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-04-23 06:09 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 08:32 +0100
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-04-24 01:48 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 10:33 +0100
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-04-24 02:53 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 12:00 +0100
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-04-24 04:08 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-24 04:33 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-04-24 05:11 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 14:13 +0100
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-24 09:26 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Dino Bruniera <dino.bruniera@gmail.com> - 2018-04-22 22:04 +0200
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-04-23 12:37 +1000
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-22 19:58 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-22 20:06 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-22 20:42 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-22 22:40 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-04-23 17:01 +1000
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-23 09:17 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-23 10:05 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Dino Bruniera <dino.bruniera@gmail.com> - 2018-04-23 16:07 +0200
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-04-24 13:47 +1000
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-04-23 21:28 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 11:25 +0100
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 14:49 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 13:05 +0000
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-04-24 06:32 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 15:38 +0000
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-04-24 09:06 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 16:27 +0000
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-04-24 10:01 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 18:13 +0000
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-04-24 11:28 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Dino Bruniera <dino.bruniera@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 22:29 +0200
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-04-25 09:25 +1000
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-04-24 21:27 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Dino Bruniera <dino.bruniera@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 21:39 +0200
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-04-26 10:42 +1000
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-04-25 21:37 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Dino Bruniera <dino.bruniera@gmail.com> - 2018-04-26 12:59 +0200
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-04-27 09:07 +1000
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Dino Bruniera <dino.bruniera@gmail.com> - 2018-04-27 22:38 +0200
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Jim Emile <leuu@wwjw.ce> - 2018-04-27 20:46 +0000
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Dino Bruniera <dino.bruniera@gmail.com> - 2018-04-28 14:40 +0200
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-04-29 14:28 +1000
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-28 22:32 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Dino Bruniera <dino.bruniera@gmail.com> - 2018-04-29 17:41 +0200
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-04-30 08:51 +1000
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Dino Bruniera <dino.bruniera@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 10:14 +0200
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR pnalsing@gmail.com - 2018-04-26 21:58 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-26 22:19 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-26 22:28 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Dino Bruniera <dino.bruniera@gmail.com> - 2018-04-27 20:49 +0200
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-27 12:21 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-27 13:30 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-04-23 23:52 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-04-23 23:46 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR "e-ps@gmail.com" <effectuationism@gmail.com> - 2018-04-22 10:27 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR pnalsing@gmail.com - 2018-04-22 10:45 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR "effectuationism@gmail.com" <effectuationism@gmail.com> - 2018-04-22 10:51 -0700
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR Dino Bruniera <dino.bruniera@gmail.com> - 2018-04-22 22:16 +0200
Re: Falsification of second postulate of SR, using the CMBR "effectuationism@gmail.com" <effectuationism@gmail.com> - 2018-04-22 13:39 -0700
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