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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #370755
| Message-ID | <5653AC96.4FB@ix.netcom.com> (permalink) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-23 16:17 -0800 |
| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
| Newsgroups | alt.astronomy, sci.physics, sci.physics.relativity |
| Subject | Re: Where is the center of the universe? |
| References | (6 earlier) <LoqdneKaOcCGoM7LnZ2dnUU7_8ydnZ2d@giganews.com> <565369A8.3781@ix.netcom.com> <n2vu98$c8l$2@dont-email.me> <56538893.2ABC@ix.netcom.com> <n301hc$plc$2@dont-email.me> |
Cross-posted to 3 groups.
rickman wrote:
>
> On 11/23/2015 4:43 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> > rickman wrote:
> >>
> >> On 11/23/2015 2:31 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> >>> Tom Roberts wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On 11/21/15 11/21/15 - 12:48 PM, benj wrote:
> >>>>> Draw two normal lines to two separated points in our universe. Where they cross
> >>>>> is the center.
> >>>>
> >>>> You have claimed this several times. Apparently you don't understand that
> >>>> "normal to a point" has no meaning. In 3-D the concept "normal" applies TO A
> >>>> SURFACE, not to a point (or to a volume); in general the normal vector ("line")
> >>>> also depends on which point of the surface is used.
> >>>>
> >>>> What surface do you have in mind, why didn't you bother to mention it, and what
> >>>> make you think that the two lines will actually "cross"?
> >>>>
> >>>> You seem to have an excessively naive notion of geometry in
> >>>> your mind.
> >>>>
> >>>>> Sam represents the current idiocy of this theory. He says the universe has no
> >>>>> center. but also the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3 (Sam thinks
> >>>>> space-time is real so he calls time a dimension too making it 4) These two ideas
> >>>>> are totally mutually exclusive. Sam has no problem with that. You just never
> >>>>> think about both of them at the same time. Even better, don't think at all.
> >>>>
> >>>> You take issue with "Sam" without knowing the actual situation. He is by no
> >>>> means alone, and your claims here are simply due to your personal ignorance
> >>>> about basic geometry, about current cosmological models, and about other people.
> >>>>
> >>>> The best current cosmological model reproduces essentially all of the relevant
> >>>> details of the cosmos we observe. It has no "center of the universe", and models
> >>>> the geometry of the universe as a 4-dimensional spacetime manifold.
> >>>>
> >>>> Neither Sam nor cosmological models consider spacetime to be "real" (YOUR
> >>>> inappropriate word). Rather, spacetime is part of a MODEL of the world we
> >>>> inhabit; models based on it, SR and GR, are the best models we have today for
> >>>> the domains of the world in which they are valid. Mainstream cosmological models
> >>>> are based on GR (specifically the FLRW manifolds).
> >>>>
> >>>> Your claim "the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3"
> >>>> is confusing model and world -- that's invalid. You are
> >>>> implicitly ASSUMING some unspecified cosmological model, and
> >>>> the odds are incredibly high that it is not as good as the
> >>>> mainstream cosmological models you take issue with.
> >>>>
> >>>> IOW: arguing from ignorance is never a good plan. Basing your
> >>>> argument on an unacknowledged and unspecified model is
> >>>> downright silly. You don't even realize you are doing this.
> >>>>
> >>>> Tom Roberts
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> When you draw a line from the top of the universe..
> >>> to the bottom of the universe..that's one straight line.
> >>
> >> If you are standing at the top of the universe and you look up, what do
> >> you see?
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Rick
> >
> >
> > You may need to understand my perpective of the universe...and how I am
> > able to see the top of the universe.
> >
> > When I am standing not at the top of the universe, but *on* top of the
> > universe...the whole universe, or
> > if I place the whole universe on my drawing board...then I draw a line
> > from the top of the universe to the
> > bottom of the universe. My view of the universe is like a sheet of paper
> > on the drawing board.
> >
> > If I look up...I see a ceiling. If I look to the right I see venetian
> > blinds..
>
> Your universe is rather smaller than the one I know. I guess it has
> different rules.
>
> --
>
> Rick
How big are photos and illustrations you see from others at NASA or from others in the 'scientific community'? Couldn't be bigger
than an 8x11.5 sheet of paper.
I see photos and illustrations in their books....their size is much smaller than mine.
Do I need to get a bigger drawing board???
Or I can take a picture with a camera....but I don't know the largest size I can print at Shutterfly.
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Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 17:45 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-20 23:48 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 10:27 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 05:13 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 12:57 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 13:44 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 20:01 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 14:17 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 20:01 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 14:22 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-21 12:08 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-11-21 10:56 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 08:05 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Jack Monaco <jacksh@umbertopal.org> - 2015-11-21 14:18 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 13:48 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-23 10:21 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-23 17:34 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-23 11:31 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 15:54 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-11-23 13:04 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-23 13:43 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 16:49 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-23 16:17 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-11-24 16:52 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-24 22:24 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? underante <underante@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-24 15:24 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-24 23:43 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-11-30 09:55 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-02 12:50 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-11-21 06:43 -0500
Re: There's nothing special about the start of "the big bang". benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 13:45 -0500
Re: There's nothing special about the start of "the big bang". Edward Stansfield <stansfield5REM6@linuxmail.org> - 2015-11-21 14:11 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-21 20:37 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-21 21:06 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-22 11:43 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 09:01 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-22 14:59 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-22 07:12 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Walter Ilinois <walin@wej98j5q.org> - 2015-11-22 16:00 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-22 08:18 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Walter Ilinois <walin@wej98j5q.org> - 2015-11-22 17:50 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 12:38 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 14:12 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-22 23:07 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-22 16:22 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-23 22:09 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-23 15:15 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-24 12:01 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-24 04:52 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-24 14:33 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-24 07:05 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-24 15:23 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Jack Monaco <jacksh@umbertopal.org> - 2015-11-24 16:30 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-22 14:02 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 16:32 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-22 22:52 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-23 10:51 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-11-24 17:07 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 14:21 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-24 23:14 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 16:27 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-25 01:50 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-24 18:18 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-24 21:44 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 07:53 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-25 12:39 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-24 22:48 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-24 21:47 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-25 10:32 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-11-25 03:03 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 09:47 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-25 23:31 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 19:28 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-11-25 21:37 -0700
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-28 23:52 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-01 21:52 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-26 00:36 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-27 01:33 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 21:36 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-26 14:22 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-26 14:27 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-27 00:48 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-26 17:34 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-11-26 23:49 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-27 04:39 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-11-27 04:54 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-27 05:11 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-11-27 06:02 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-28 16:08 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-28 17:51 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-29 00:20 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-29 11:10 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-29 11:45 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-29 13:01 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-29 04:55 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-29 14:33 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-29 06:24 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-29 15:50 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-29 07:06 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-29 16:11 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-29 04:56 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-29 05:48 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-29 06:16 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-30 22:50 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-30 16:27 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-01 07:51 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-30 23:09 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-01 08:31 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-12-01 00:15 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-25 09:59 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 11:16 -0500
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-25 11:02 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-11-25 09:07 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-11-25 09:16 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Jack Monaco <jacksh@umbBertopal.org> - 2015-11-25 17:37 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-25 18:47 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Jack Monaco <jacksh@umbBertopal.org> - 2015-11-25 18:11 +0000
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 10:06 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 14:04 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-11-25 23:09 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-25 17:50 +0100
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 10:01 -0800
Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 14:05 -0600
Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 12:42 -0800
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