Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > sci.lang > #306230 > unrolled thread

Word of the day: “Papoose”

Back to article view | Back to sci.lang

Contents

  Word of the day: “Papoose” Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2024-08-31 19:54 +0100
    Re: Word of the day: “Papoose” dougstaples@gmx.com (LionelEdwards) - 2024-08-31 20:16 +0000
      Re: Word of the day: “Papoose” Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2024-09-01 17:31 +0100
    Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2024-08-31 22:17 +0100
      Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-09-01 18:36 +0200
        Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> - 2024-09-01 09:59 -0700
        Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2024-09-01 11:43 -0600
        Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2024-09-01 15:39 -0400
          Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2024-09-01 23:04 -0400
            Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2024-09-02 00:22 -0400
              Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2024-09-02 11:56 +0100
                Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2024-09-02 23:57 +1000
                Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2024-09-02 10:52 -0400
                  Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? jerry.friedman99@gmail.com (jerryfriedman) - 2024-09-02 15:30 +0000
            Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-08-06 19:47 +0000
              Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-08-07 14:46 +0000
              Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-08-08 18:13 +0000
                Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2025-08-09 11:01 +1200
                  Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-08-09 02:14 +0000
                    Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-08-09 02:31 +0000
                      Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-08-10 22:36 +0000
          Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-09-02 12:33 +0000
            Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2024-09-03 00:01 +1000
            Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2024-09-02 11:45 -0400
              Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-09-03 05:11 +0200
            Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2024-09-03 08:31 +0100
              Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-09-03 17:53 +0200
                Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2024-09-03 15:33 -0600
                  Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? "Anders D. Nygaard" <news2012adn@gmail.com> - 2024-09-04 21:15 +0200
                Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2024-09-04 10:10 +1000
                  Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2024-09-04 16:26 +1200
                  Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-09-04 10:35 +0200
      Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose? Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2024-09-06 13:42 -0400
    Re: Word of the day: “Papoose” Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2024-08-31 14:35 -0700
      Re: Word of the day: “Papoose” Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2024-09-06 19:57 -0700
        Re: Word of the day: “Papoose” Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2024-09-07 09:28 +0100
          Re: Word of the day: “Papoose” Bertel Lund Hansen <gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> - 2024-09-07 11:28 +0200
            Re: Word of the day: “Papoose” Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2024-09-07 11:50 +0100
            Sprog Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-09-08 05:44 +0200
              Re: Sprog Chris Elvidge <chris@internal.net> - 2024-09-08 12:45 +0100
              Re: Sprog Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2024-09-08 21:59 +1000
                Re: Sprog Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2024-09-08 16:16 +0200
                Re: Sprog "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-09-08 14:32 +0100
                Re: Sprog Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-09-09 01:42 +0200
                  Re: Sprog Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2024-09-08 17:27 -0700
                    Re: Sprog jerry.friedman99@gmail.com (jerryfriedman) - 2024-09-09 02:34 +0000
                    Re: Sprog jerry.friedman99@gmail.com (jerryfriedman) - 2024-09-09 02:34 +0000
    Re: Word of the day: “Papoose” lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2024-08-31 15:47 -0600
      Re: Word of the day: “Papoose” Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2024-09-01 09:56 +1000
    Re: Word of the day: �Papoose� Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2024-08-31 18:45 -0400
    Re: Word of the day: “Papoose” Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-09-01 01:52 +0000

Page 1 of 3  [1] 2 3  Next page →

#306230 — Word of the day: “Papoose”

I came across this word for the first time today, in the second meaning from
Wikipedia, describing basically something to swaddle a toddler to keep it still
for a procedure in Emergency Medicine:

“Papoose (from the Narragansett papoos, meaning "child")[1] is an American
English word whose present meaning is "a Native American child" (regardless of
tribe) or, even more generally, any child, usually used as a term of
endearment, often in the context of the child's mother.[2] In 1643, Roger
Williams recorded the word in his A Key into the Language of America, helping
to popularize it.[3]
[...]
Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are known by
various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used to
refer to a child carrier.”

Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no
currency outside the US. Does it have much currency within the US?

-- 
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#306231

On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 18:54:02 +0000, Aidan Kehoe wrote:

>
> I came across this word for the first time today, in the second meaning
> from
> Wikipedia, describing basically something to swaddle a toddler to keep
> it still
> for a procedure in Emergency Medicine:
>
> “Papoose (from the Narragansett papoos, meaning "child")[1] is an
> American
> English word whose present meaning is "a Native American child"
> (regardless of
> tribe) or, even more generally, any child, usually used as a term of
> endearment, often in the context of the child's mother.[2] In 1643,
> Roger
> Williams recorded the word in his A Key into the Language of America,
> helping
> to popularize it.[3]
> [...]
> Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are
> known by
> various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used
> to
> refer to a child carrier.”
>
> Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no
> currency outside the US. Does it have much currency within the US?

Very familiar in GB from 1960s Westerns as a method by which Indians
could gallop on horseback carrying their infants safely. Not to be
confused with "a caboose".

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#306241

 Ar an t-aonú lá is triochad de mí Lúnasa, scríobh LionelEdwards: 

 > [...] Very familiar in GB from 1960s Westerns as a method by which Indians
 > could gallop on horseback carrying their infants safely. Not to be confused
 > with "a caboose".

Pleasantly surprised at the number of non-North-Americans who know the word. I
suppose the Zane Grey books and the cowboy movies did educate on certain
things.

-- 
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#306232 — Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose?

In article <87a5gsplpx.fsf@parhasard.net>, 
kehoea@parhasard.net says...
> 
> I came across this word for the first time today, in the second meaning from
> Wikipedia, describing basically something to swaddle a toddler to keep it still
> for a procedure in Emergency Medicine:
> 
> ?Papoose (from the Narragansett papoos, meaning "child")[1] is an American
> English word whose present meaning is "a Native American child" (regardless of
> tribe) or, even more generally, any child, usually used as a term of
> endearment, often in the context of the child's mother.[2] In 1643, Roger
> Williams recorded the word in his A Key into the Language of America, helping
> to popularize it.[3]
> [...]
> Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are known by
> various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used to
> refer to a child carrier.?
> 
> Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no
> currency outside the US.

   The native-American "papoose" back-board child carrier 
was known to me in early childhood (and probably every 
other kid enthralled by "Cowboys and Indians".

    When we had children I rediscovered it all over again 
thanks to Mothercare. We had a baby back carrier called a 
papoose. 

   Janet.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#306243 — Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose?

On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:17:55 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:

>> Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are known by
>> various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used to
>> refer to a child carrier.?
>> 
>> Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no
>> currency outside the US.
>
>   The native-American "papoose" back-board child carrier 
>was known to me in early childhood (and probably every 
>other kid enthralled by "Cowboys and Indians".
>
>    When we had children I rediscovered it all over again 
>thanks to Mothercare. We had a baby back carrier called a 
>papoose. 

So it seems that people within the US understand "papoose" as
referring to a child, and outside the US it refers to a child holder?


-- 
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web:  http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#306244 — Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose?

On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 18:36:10 +0200, Steve Hayes
<hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:

>On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:17:55 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
>
>>> Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are known by
>>> various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used to
>>> refer to a child carrier.?
>>> 
>>> Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no
>>> currency outside the US.
>>
>>   The native-American "papoose" back-board child carrier 
>>was known to me in early childhood (and probably every 
>>other kid enthralled by "Cowboys and Indians".
>>
>>    When we had children I rediscovered it all over again 
>>thanks to Mothercare. We had a baby back carrier called a 
>>papoose. 
>
>So it seems that people within the US understand "papoose" as
>referring to a child, and outside the US it refers to a child holder?


Not exactly. I'm within the US, but not me. To me it's a  back-board
child carrier with a child in it

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#306245 — Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose?

On 9/1/2024 10:36 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:17:55 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
> 
>>> Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are known by
>>> various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used to
>>> refer to a child carrier.?
>>>
>>> Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no
>>> currency outside the US.
>>
>>    The native-American "papoose" back-board child carrier
>> was known to me in early childhood (and probably every
>> other kid enthralled by "Cowboys and Indians".
>>
>>     When we had children I rediscovered it all over again
>> thanks to Mothercare. We had a baby back carrier called a
>> papoose.
> 
> So it seems that people within the US understand "papoose" as
> referring to a child, and outside the US it refers to a child holder?
Born in the Midwestern portion of the USA a long time ago: My 
understanding has been both since ("time wise", not "because") I can 
remember.
-- 
Jeff Barnett

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#306246 — Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose?

On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 18:36:10 +0200, Steve Hayes
<hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:

>On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:17:55 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
>
>>> Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are known by
>>> various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used to
>>> refer to a child carrier.?
>>> 
>>> Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no
>>> currency outside the US.
>>
>>   The native-American "papoose" back-board child carrier 
>>was known to me in early childhood (and probably every 
>>other kid enthralled by "Cowboys and Indians".
>>
>>    When we had children I rediscovered it all over again 
>>thanks to Mothercare. We had a baby back carrier called a 
>>papoose. 
>
>So it seems that people within the US understand "papoose" as
>referring to a child, and outside the US it refers to a child holder?


Please...write "some people".

If I see an (American) Indian with a baby in a carrier strapped to her
back, I would describe that as a woman with a papoose.

However, if she removes the baby from the carrier and puts the baby on
a blanket on the ground, I would not say the baby is a "papoose".

You seem to want "people" in the US to all view things the same.  

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#306251 — Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose?

On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 15:39:20 -0400, Tony Cooper
<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 18:36:10 +0200, Steve Hayes
><hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:17:55 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are known by
>>>> various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used to
>>>> refer to a child carrier.?
>>>> 
>>>> Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no
>>>> currency outside the US.
>>>
>>>   The native-American "papoose" back-board child carrier 
>>>was known to me in early childhood (and probably every 
>>>other kid enthralled by "Cowboys and Indians".
>>>
>>>    When we had children I rediscovered it all over again 
>>>thanks to Mothercare. We had a baby back carrier called a 
>>>papoose. 
>>
>>So it seems that people within the US understand "papoose" as
>>referring to a child, and outside the US it refers to a child holder?
>
>
>Please...write "some people".
>
>If I see an (American) Indian with a baby in a carrier strapped to her
>back, I would describe that as a woman with a papoose.
>
>However, if she removes the baby from the carrier and puts the baby on
>a blanket on the ground, I would not say the baby is a "papoose".

I thought that the baby would stay in the carrier when laid on
the ground.  I thought they followed the baby-handling tradition
of keeping them bound up.  

I had not ever been challenged with an Indian baby on the 
loose, and someone looking for a word to describe them. 

From the earlier discussion, I conclude that only the bound
baby is a papoose. 

-- 
Rich Ulrich 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#306254 — Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose?

On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 23:04:55 -0400, Rich Ulrich
<rich.ulrich@comcast.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 15:39:20 -0400, Tony Cooper
><tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 18:36:10 +0200, Steve Hayes
>><hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:17:55 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are known by
>>>>> various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used to
>>>>> refer to a child carrier.?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no
>>>>> currency outside the US.
>>>>
>>>>   The native-American "papoose" back-board child carrier 
>>>>was known to me in early childhood (and probably every 
>>>>other kid enthralled by "Cowboys and Indians".
>>>>
>>>>    When we had children I rediscovered it all over again 
>>>>thanks to Mothercare. We had a baby back carrier called a 
>>>>papoose. 
>>>
>>>So it seems that people within the US understand "papoose" as
>>>referring to a child, and outside the US it refers to a child holder?
>>
>>
>>Please...write "some people".
>>
>>If I see an (American) Indian with a baby in a carrier strapped to her
>>back, I would describe that as a woman with a papoose.
>>
>>However, if she removes the baby from the carrier and puts the baby on
>>a blanket on the ground, I would not say the baby is a "papoose".
>
>I thought that the baby would stay in the carrier when laid on
>the ground.  I thought they followed the baby-handling tradition
>of keeping them bound up.  
>
>I had not ever been challenged with an Indian baby on the 
>loose, and someone looking for a word to describe them. 
>
>From the earlier discussion, I conclude that only the bound
>baby is a papoose. 

I don't have a lot of experience discussing (American) Indian
children, so I - too - have never before been challenged with coming
up with a word to describe an unbound one.  

It would have been my impression that an Indian woman uses/used the
papoose-on-the-back as a means of comfortably transporting the child
when she's on the move.  It's never occured to me that keeping the
child bound at all times is/was the objective.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#306257 — Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose?

In article <qteadjt6e04h35hok2fpurqgo5b8kukutb@4ax.com>, 
tonycooper214@gmail.com says...
> I don't have a lot of experience discussing (American) Indian
> children, so I - too - have never before been challenged with coming
> up with a word to describe an unbound one.  
> 
> It would have been my impression that an Indian woman uses/used the
> papoose-on-the-back as a means of comfortably transporting the child
> when she's on the move.  It's never occured to me that keeping the
> child bound at all times is/was the objective.

  Binding or swaddling babies, exists in many other 
cultures. 

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swaddling 

   My (midwife) mother firmly swaddled all her babies( as 
did her mother, and so did I).  Mary did the same to 
Jesus.

    Janet

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#306260 — Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose?

On 02/09/24 20:56, Janet wrote:

> Binding or swaddling babies, exists in many other cultures.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swaddling
>
> My (midwife) mother firmly swaddled all her babies( as did her
> mother, and so did I).  Mary did the same to Jesus.

When I look at the chaos caused by my wife's one-year-old grandson, I am
firmly in favour of swaddling.

-- 
Peter Moylan       peter@pmoylan.org    http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#306262 — Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose?

On Mon, 2 Sep 2024 11:56:07 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:

>In article <qteadjt6e04h35hok2fpurqgo5b8kukutb@4ax.com>, 
>tonycooper214@gmail.com says...
>> I don't have a lot of experience discussing (American) Indian
>> children, so I - too - have never before been challenged with coming
>> up with a word to describe an unbound one.  
>> 
>> It would have been my impression that an Indian woman uses/used the
>> papoose-on-the-back as a means of comfortably transporting the child
>> when she's on the move.  It's never occured to me that keeping the
>> child bound at all times is/was the objective.
>
>  Binding or swaddling babies, exists in many other 
>cultures. 
>
>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swaddling 
>
>   My (midwife) mother firmly swaddled all her babies( as 
>did her mother, and so did I).  Mary did the same to 
>Jesus.
>
I'm fully aware of what "swaddling" is, but I don't see that it
pertains to this discussion.

I haven't seen/heard that the reason the (American) Indian women are
pictured with a papoose is because they were practicing swaddling.  I
think it was purely a convenient and more confortable means of
remaining mobile while accompanied by an infant.  

It left the arms free to carry things.  The infant was more secure
when carried over uneven ground.  

Also, I think the main point in this discussion is about whether
"papoose" describes the infant, describes the material used to contain
the infant, or describes an infant in the material.

At some time during the day, the infant could be removed from the
carrier.  To be nursed or fed, for example.  Is it still called a
"papoose" during that time?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#306265 — Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose?

On Mon, 2 Sep 2024 14:52:42 +0000, Tony Cooper wrote:

..

> Also, I think the main point in this discussion is about whether
> "papoose" describes the infant, describes the material used to contain
> the infant, or describes an infant in the material.

(Inclusive "or".)

> At some time during the day, the infant could be removed from the
> carrier.  To be nursed or fed, for example.  Is it still called a
> "papoose" during that time?

When I learned the word, I was told "Indian" men were
called braves, women were called squaws, and children
were called papooses.  (Of course those meanings
have pretty much disappeared.). Carriers had nothing
to do with it, and I don't think I'd ever heard the "carrier"
meaning till this thread.  However, I haven't talked much
with people about infant carriers.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#307838 — Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose?

Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> posted:

> On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 15:39:20 -0400, Tony Cooper
> <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 18:36:10 +0200, Steve Hayes
> ><hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> >
> >>On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:17:55 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are known by
> >>>> various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used to
> >>>> refer to a child carrier.?
> >>>> 
> >>>> Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no
> >>>> currency outside the US.
> >>>
> >>>   The native-American "papoose" back-board child carrier 
> >>>was known to me in early childhood (and probably every 
> >>>other kid enthralled by "Cowboys and Indians".
> >>>
> >>>    When we had children I rediscovered it all over again 
> >>>thanks to Mothercare. We had a baby back carrier called a 
> >>>papoose. 
> >>
> >>So it seems that people within the US understand "papoose" as
> >>referring to a child, and outside the US it refers to a child holder?
> >
> >
> >Please...write "some people".
> >
> >If I see an (American) Indian with a baby in a carrier strapped to her
> >back, I would describe that as a woman with a papoose.
> >
> >However, if she removes the baby from the carrier and puts the baby on
> >a blanket on the ground, I would not say the baby is a "papoose".
> 
> I thought that the baby would stay in the carrier when laid on
> the ground.  I thought they followed the baby-handling tradition
> of keeping them bound up.  
> 
> I had not ever been challenged with an Indian baby on the 
> loose, and someone looking for a word to describe them. 
> 
> From the earlier discussion, I conclude that only the bound
> baby is a papoose. 
 
As I understand it, the baby in the papoose (porter?) was backstrapped to the parent, and for a rest it was hung on a branch or tilted against a tree trunk not laid flat on the ground except to change the moss/diaper.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#307840 — Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose?

DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

> 
> Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> posted:
> 
> > On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 15:39:20 -0400, Tony Cooper
> > <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > >On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 18:36:10 +0200, Steve Hayes
> > ><hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >>On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:17:55 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>> Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are known by
> > >>>> various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used to
> > >>>> refer to a child carrier.?
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no
> > >>>> currency outside the US.
> > >>>
> > >>>   The native-American "papoose" back-board child carrier 
> > >>>was known to me in early childhood (and probably every 
> > >>>other kid enthralled by "Cowboys and Indians".
> > >>>
> > >>>    When we had children I rediscovered it all over again 
> > >>>thanks to Mothercare. We had a baby back carrier called a 
> > >>>papoose. 
> > >>
> > >>So it seems that people within the US understand "papoose" as
> > >>referring to a child, and outside the US it refers to a child holder?
> > >
> > >
> > >Please...write "some people".
> > >
> > >If I see an (American) Indian with a baby in a carrier strapped to her
> > >back, I would describe that as a woman with a papoose.
> > >
> > >However, if she removes the baby from the carrier and puts the baby on
> > >a blanket on the ground, I would not say the baby is a "papoose".
> > 
> > I thought that the baby would stay in the carrier when laid on
> > the ground.  I thought they followed the baby-handling tradition
> > of keeping them bound up.  
> > 
> > I had not ever been challenged with an Indian baby on the 
> > loose, and someone looking for a word to describe them. 
> > 
> > From the earlier discussion, I conclude that only the bound
> > baby is a papoose. 
>  
> As I understand it, the baby in the papoose (porter?) was backstrapped to the parent, and for a rest it was hung on a branch or tilted against a tree trunk not laid flat on the ground except to change the moss/diaper.

Algonquin: papoose = child?

Boy. Mukkutchouks
Girl. Nunksqua
Infant, or child. Mukkie

Viewing page 7 of 20 for project 8323 | Smithsonian Digital Volunteers https://share.google/9b13kDhSL8K33p4cB

---

[Algonquin English translator]

Baby. Ninige
Child  Ninigo

---

[Proto-Algonquin English translator]

Child. awaᐧsi- na
Child  niᐧčyaᐧna na

Cree awaᐧsis child
Ojibwe awaᐧsišš child

---

Waboose. baby rabbit 

---

child (a youth)	 : [Swadesh]

abinoojiinh (Ojibwa Algonquin)
pookáá	 (Blackfoot Algonquin)	
mimëns	(Munsee Lenape Algonquin). 
eksà:'a (Mohawk Iroquois)
ayoli	(Cherokee Iroquois)
nakatsek (Nataway Iroquois)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#307842 — Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose?

DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

> 
> Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> posted:
> 
> > On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 15:39:20 -0400, Tony Cooper
> > <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > >On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 18:36:10 +0200, Steve Hayes
> > ><hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >>On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:17:55 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>> Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are known by
> > >>>> various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used to
> > >>>> refer to a child carrier.?
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no
> > >>>> currency outside the US.
> > >>>
> > >>>   The native-American "papoose" back-board child carrier 
> > >>>was known to me in early childhood (and probably every 
> > >>>other kid enthralled by "Cowboys and Indians".
> > >>>
> > >>>    When we had children I rediscovered it all over again 
> > >>>thanks to Mothercare. We had a baby back carrier called a 
> > >>>papoose. 
> > >>
> > >>So it seems that people within the US understand "papoose" as
> > >>referring to a child, and outside the US it refers to a child holder?
> > >
> > >
> > >Please...write "some people".
> > >
> > >If I see an (American) Indian with a baby in a carrier strapped to her
> > >back, I would describe that as a woman with a papoose.
> > >
> > >However, if she removes the baby from the carrier and puts the baby on
> > >a blanket on the ground, I would not say the baby is a "papoose".
> > 
> > I thought that the baby would stay in the carrier when laid on
> > the ground.  I thought they followed the baby-handling tradition
> > of keeping them bound up.  
> > 
> > I had not ever been challenged with an Indian baby on the 
> > loose, and someone looking for a word to describe them. 
> > 
> > From the earlier discussion, I conclude that only the bound
> > baby is a papoose. 
>  
> As I understand it, the baby in the papoose (porter?) was backstrapped to the parent, and for a rest it was hung on a branch or tilted against a tree trunk not laid flat on the ground except to change the moss/diaper.

Wikipedia claims that papoose meant child. Other Algonquin words for child are not similar to papoose.

Algonquin: papoose = child?
 
Boy. Mukkutchouks
Girl. Nunksqua
Infant, or child. Mukkie
Viewing page 7 of 20 for project 8323 | Smithsonian Digital Volunteers https://share.google/9b13kDhSL8K33p4cB
---
[Algonquin English translator]
Baby. Ninige
Child  Ninigo
---
[Proto-Algonquin English translator]
Child. awaᐧsi- na
Child  niᐧčyaᐧna na
Cree awaᐧsis child
Ojibwe awaᐧsišš child
---
Waboose. baby rabbit
---
child (a youth)      [Swadesh list]
 
abinoojiinh    (Ojibwa Algonquin)
pookáá     (Blackfoot Algonquin)    
mimëns    (Munsee Lenape Algonquin). 
eksà:'a (Mohawk Iroquois)
ayoli    (Cherokee Iroquois)
nakatseke    (Nataway Iroquois)
---

5ka baby carriers in Germany with dog teeth decoration
 
https://www.livescience.com/archaeology/5-000-year-old-burials-in-germany-hold-3-women-with-bedazzled-baby-carriers



If we go back much further in time, toddlers were piggyback riding on their parent's backs, with fingers and toes grasping scalp hair for anchorage.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#307844 — Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose?

On 9/08/2025 6:13 a.m., DDeden wrote:
> 
> DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:
> 
>>
>> Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> posted:
>>
>>> On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 15:39:20 -0400, Tony Cooper
>>> <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 18:36:10 +0200, Steve Hayes
>>>> <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:17:55 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are known by
>>>>>>> various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used to
>>>>>>> refer to a child carrier.?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no
>>>>>>> currency outside the US.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    The native-American "papoose" back-board child carrier
>>>>>> was known to me in early childhood (and probably every
>>>>>> other kid enthralled by "Cowboys and Indians".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     When we had children I rediscovered it all over again
>>>>>> thanks to Mothercare. We had a baby back carrier called a
>>>>>> papoose.
>>>>>
>>>>> So it seems that people within the US understand "papoose" as
>>>>> referring to a child, and outside the US it refers to a child holder?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please...write "some people".
>>>>
>>>> If I see an (American) Indian with a baby in a carrier strapped to her
>>>> back, I would describe that as a woman with a papoose.
>>>>
>>>> However, if she removes the baby from the carrier and puts the baby on
>>>> a blanket on the ground, I would not say the baby is a "papoose".
>>>
>>> I thought that the baby would stay in the carrier when laid on
>>> the ground.  I thought they followed the baby-handling tradition
>>> of keeping them bound up.
>>>
>>> I had not ever been challenged with an Indian baby on the
>>> loose, and someone looking for a word to describe them.
>>>
>>>  From the earlier discussion, I conclude that only the bound
>>> baby is a papoose.
>>   
>> As I understand it, the baby in the papoose (porter?) was backstrapped to the parent, and for a rest it was hung on a branch or tilted against a tree trunk not laid flat on the ground except to change the moss/diaper.
> 
> Wikipedia claims that papoose meant child. Other Algonquin words for child are not similar to papoose.
> 
> Algonquin: papoose = child?

It's certainly not general Algonquian. Bright refers to its appearance 
in a vocabulary of 1643, which almost certainly means Roger Williams' _A 
Key into the Language of America_, and the language is Naragansett.


> Boy. Mukkutchouks
> Girl. Nunksqua
> Infant, or child. Mukkie
> Viewing page 7 of 20 for project 8323 | Smithsonian Digital Volunteers https://share.google/9b13kDhSL8K33p4cB
> ---
> [Algonquin English translator]
> Baby. Ninige
> Child  Ninigo
> ---
> [Proto-Algonquin English translator]
> Child. awaᐧsi- na
> Child  niᐧčyaᐧna na
> Cree awaᐧsis child
> Ojibwe awaᐧsišš child
> ---
> Waboose. baby rabbit
> ---
> child (a youth)      [Swadesh list]
>   
> abinoojiinh    (Ojibwa Algonquin)
> pookáá     (Blackfoot Algonquin)
> mimëns    (Munsee Lenape Algonquin).
> eksà:'a (Mohawk Iroquois)
> ayoli    (Cherokee Iroquois)
> nakatseke    (Nataway Iroquois)
> ---
> 
> 5ka baby carriers in Germany with dog teeth decoration
>   
> https://www.livescience.com/archaeology/5-000-year-old-burials-in-germany-hold-3-women-with-bedazzled-baby-carriers
> 
> 
> 
> If we go back much further in time, toddlers were piggyback riding on their parent's backs, with fingers and toes grasping scalp hair for anchorage.
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#307845 — Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose?

Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> posted:

> On 9/08/2025 6:13 a.m., DDeden wrote:
> > 
> > DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:
> > 
> >>
> >> Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> posted:
> >>
> >>> On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 15:39:20 -0400, Tony Cooper
> >>> <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 18:36:10 +0200, Steve Hayes
> >>>> <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:17:55 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are known by
> >>>>>>> various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used to
> >>>>>>> refer to a child carrier.?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no
> >>>>>>> currency outside the US.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    The native-American "papoose" back-board child carrier
> >>>>>> was known to me in early childhood (and probably every
> >>>>>> other kid enthralled by "Cowboys and Indians".
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>     When we had children I rediscovered it all over again
> >>>>>> thanks to Mothercare. We had a baby back carrier called a
> >>>>>> papoose.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So it seems that people within the US understand "papoose" as
> >>>>> referring to a child, and outside the US it refers to a child holder?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Please...write "some people".
> >>>>
> >>>> If I see an (American) Indian with a baby in a carrier strapped to her
> >>>> back, I would describe that as a woman with a papoose.
> >>>>
> >>>> However, if she removes the baby from the carrier and puts the baby on
> >>>> a blanket on the ground, I would not say the baby is a "papoose".
> >>>
> >>> I thought that the baby would stay in the carrier when laid on
> >>> the ground.  I thought they followed the baby-handling tradition
> >>> of keeping them bound up.
> >>>
> >>> I had not ever been challenged with an Indian baby on the
> >>> loose, and someone looking for a word to describe them.
> >>>
> >>>  From the earlier discussion, I conclude that only the bound
> >>> baby is a papoose.
> >>   
> >> As I understand it, the baby in the papoose (porter?) was backstrapped to the parent, and for a rest it was hung on a branch or tilted against a tree trunk not laid flat on the ground except to change the moss/diaper.
> > 
> > Wikipedia claims that papoose meant child. Other Algonquin words for child are not similar to papoose.
> > 
> > Algonquin: papoose = child?
> 
> It's certainly not general Algonquian. Bright refers to its appearance 
> in a vocabulary of 1643, which almost certainly means Roger Williams' _A 
> Key into the Language of America_, and the language is Naragansett.
> 

Under Wikipedia Massachusett Pidgin English, I found some support:
pappoose,[14] 'baby.' Possibly from Narragansett pappoòs. Massachusett form is papeiss[25] (pâpeewees})[26] /paːpiːwiːs/}. Compare Mohegan-Pequot pápohs /paːpuːhs/.[27]

27 papohs. (2012). Fielding, S. Mohegan Dictionary. Mohegan Tribe

Seems certain then, papoose was indeed baby, not cradleboard.



> > Boy. Mukkutchouks
> > Girl. Nunksqua
> > Infant, or child. Mukkie
> > Viewing page 7 of 20 for project 8323 | Smithsonian Digital Volunteers https://share.google/9b13kDhSL8K33p4cB
> > ---
> > [Algonquin English translator]
> > Baby. Ninige
> > Child  Ninigo
> > ---
> > [Proto-Algonquin English translator]
> > Child. awaᐧsi- na
> > Child  niᐧčyaᐧna na
> > Cree awaᐧsis child
> > Ojibwe awaᐧsišš child
> > ---
> > Waboose. baby rabbit
> > ---
> > child (a youth)      [Swadesh list]
> >   
> > abinoojiinh    (Ojibwa Algonquin)
> > pookáá     (Blackfoot Algonquin)
> > mimëns    (Munsee Lenape Algonquin).
> > eksà:'a (Mohawk Iroquois)
> > ayoli    (Cherokee Iroquois)
> > nakatseke    (Nataway Iroquois)
> > ---
> > 
> > 5ka baby carriers in Germany with dog teeth decoration
> >   
> > https://www.livescience.com/archaeology/5-000-year-old-burials-in-germany-hold-3-women-with-bedazzled-baby-carriers
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > If we go back much further in time, toddlers were piggyback riding on their parent's backs, with fingers and toes grasping scalp hair for anchorage.
> > 
>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#307846 — Re: Word of the day: ?Papoose?

DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:

> 
> Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> posted:
> 
> > On 9/08/2025 6:13 a.m., DDeden wrote:
> > > 
> > > DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:
> > > 
> > >>
> > >> Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> posted:
> > >>
> > >>> On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 15:39:20 -0400, Tony Cooper
> > >>> <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 18:36:10 +0200, Steve Hayes
> > >>>> <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:17:55 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are known by
> > >>>>>>> various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used to
> > >>>>>>> refer to a child carrier.?
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no
> > >>>>>>> currency outside the US.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>    The native-American "papoose" back-board child carrier
> > >>>>>> was known to me in early childhood (and probably every
> > >>>>>> other kid enthralled by "Cowboys and Indians".
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>     When we had children I rediscovered it all over again
> > >>>>>> thanks to Mothercare. We had a baby back carrier called a
> > >>>>>> papoose.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> So it seems that people within the US understand "papoose" as
> > >>>>> referring to a child, and outside the US it refers to a child holder?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Please...write "some people".
> > >>>>
> > >>>> If I see an (American) Indian with a baby in a carrier strapped to her
> > >>>> back, I would describe that as a woman with a papoose.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> However, if she removes the baby from the carrier and puts the baby on
> > >>>> a blanket on the ground, I would not say the baby is a "papoose".
> > >>>
> > >>> I thought that the baby would stay in the carrier when laid on
> > >>> the ground.  I thought they followed the baby-handling tradition
> > >>> of keeping them bound up.
> > >>>
> > >>> I had not ever been challenged with an Indian baby on the
> > >>> loose, and someone looking for a word to describe them.
> > >>>
> > >>>  From the earlier discussion, I conclude that only the bound
> > >>> baby is a papoose.
> > >>   
> > >> As I understand it, the baby in the papoose (porter?) was backstrapped to the parent, and for a rest it was hung on a branch or tilted against a tree trunk not laid flat on the ground except to change the moss/diaper.
> > > 
> > > Wikipedia claims that papoose meant child. Other Algonquin words for child are not similar to papoose.
> > > 
> > > Algonquin: papoose = child?
> > 
> > It's certainly not general Algonquian. Bright refers to its appearance 
> > in a vocabulary of 1643, which almost certainly means Roger Williams' _A 
> > Key into the Language of America_, and the language is Naragansett.
> > 
> 
> Under Wikipedia Massachusett Pidgin English, I found some support:
> pappoose,[14] 'baby.' Possibly from Narragansett pappoòs. Massachusett form is papeiss[25] (pâpeewees})[26] /paːpiːwiːs/}. Compare Mohegan-Pequot pápohs /paːpuːhs/.[27]
> 
> 27 papohs. (2012). Fielding, S. Mohegan Dictionary. Mohegan Tribe
> 
> Seems certain then, papoose was indeed baby, not cradleboard.
> 

Cite at Mohegan Pequot dictionary

páhpohs, NA child, baby
plural páhpohsak locative páhpohsuk
Nuwiktamumun yo natawahuwôk, wipi côci nupásawômun páhpohs i nikun: 
We have enjoyed this visit, but we must take our baby home.

> 
> > > Boy. Mukkutchouks
> > > Girl. Nunksqua
> > > Infant, or child. Mukkie
> > > Viewing page 7 of 20 for project 8323 | Smithsonian Digital Volunteers https://share.google/9b13kDhSL8K33p4cB
> > > ---
> > > [Algonquin English translator]
> > > Baby. Ninige
> > > Child  Ninigo
> > > ---
> > > [Proto-Algonquin English translator]
> > > Child. awaᐧsi- na
> > > Child  niᐧčyaᐧna na
> > > Cree awaᐧsis child
> > > Ojibwe awaᐧsišš child
> > > ---
> > > Waboose. baby rabbit
> > > ---
> > > child (a youth)      [Swadesh list]
> > >   
> > > abinoojiinh    (Ojibwa Algonquin)
> > > pookáá     (Blackfoot Algonquin)
> > > mimëns    (Munsee Lenape Algonquin).
> > > eksà:'a (Mohawk Iroquois)
> > > ayoli    (Cherokee Iroquois)
> > > nakatseke    (Nataway Iroquois)
> > > ---
> > > 
> > > 5ka baby carriers in Germany with dog teeth decoration
> > >   
> > > https://www.livescience.com/archaeology/5-000-year-old-burials-in-germany-hold-3-women-with-bedazzled-baby-carriers
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > If we go back much further in time, toddlers were piggyback riding on their parent's backs, with fingers and toes grasping scalp hair for anchorage.
> > > 
> >

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 1 of 3  [1] 2 3  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | sci.lang

csiph-web