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Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers?

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  Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? hondgm@yahoo.com - 2017-06-02 08:49 -0700
    Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-02 16:58 +0000
      Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? hondgm@yahoo.com - 2017-06-02 10:10 -0700
        Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-02 18:06 +0000
          Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? hondgm@yahoo.com - 2017-06-02 11:59 -0700
            Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-02 19:21 +0000
              Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? hondgm@yahoo.com - 2017-06-02 12:43 -0700
                Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-02 20:43 +0000
                  Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? hondgm@yahoo.com - 2017-06-02 18:29 -0700
                Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-06-03 11:44 -0400
                  Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? hondgm@yahoo.com - 2017-06-04 04:44 -0700
            Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-06-02 14:59 -0500
        Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> - 2017-06-04 12:12 +1000
    Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt) - 2017-06-02 10:46 -0700
    Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-02 13:03 -0700
      Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? hondgm@yahoo.com - 2017-06-02 18:17 -0700
        Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-02 19:47 -0700
          Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? hondgm@yahoo.com - 2017-06-03 03:56 -0700
            Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-03 11:50 -0700
            Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? Kamen Lilov <kamenl@gmail.com> - 2017-06-03 12:33 -0700
      Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-06-09 21:04 +0000
        Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-09 14:37 -0700
    Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? mike <ham789@netzero.net> - 2017-06-04 00:02 -0700
      Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-04 03:41 -0700
      Re: Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers? Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-06-04 13:15 +0000

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#462682 — Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers?

I was perusing eBay recently and noticed these old Picstart Programmers going for about $50.  Why???!!  With an RS232 port and I'm sure limited capability, the only theory I have is as collector's items.

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#462700

On a sunny day (Fri, 2 Jun 2017 08:49:14 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
hondgm@yahoo.com wrote in
<7b11ca83-5bbd-4915-8955-08e571c42b61@googlegroups.com>:

>I was perusing eBay recently and noticed these old Picstart Programmers going for about $50.  Why???!!  With an RS232 port and
>I'm sure limited capability, the only theory I have is as collector's items.

I wrote my own PIC programmer software and use a modified 'noppp' programmer
and guess what: it uses the PC parport (just a PCI par port card),
oh wait and I made an interface cable and wrote a Raspbery GPIO version.

Why not?
USB to serial adaptors plenty here too, but USB sucks.
The most useful thing about the old PCs is the parport as I/O.

It, PIC, is a freaking simple 3 or 2 wire programming system, WHY buy anything?
 http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
  all done with that programmer and gpasm in Linux, and without MPlab.

I use the PC partport to test all sorts of i2c stuff from displays to
GHz chips.
 

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#462705

On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 11:58:21 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Fri, 2 Jun 2017 08:49:14 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
> hondgm@.com wrote in
> <7b11ca83-5bbd-4915-8955-08e571c42b61@googlegroups.com>:
> 

> I wrote my own PIC programmer software and use a modified 'noppp' programmer
> and guess what: it uses the PC parport (just a PCI par port card),
> oh wait and I made an interface cable and wrote a Raspbery GPIO version.
> 
> Why not?
> USB to serial adaptors plenty here too, but USB sucks.
> The most useful thing about the old PCs is the parport as I/O.
> 
> It, PIC, is a freaking simple 3 or 2 wire programming system, WHY buy anything?
>  http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
>   all done with that programmer and gpasm in Linux, and without MPlab.
> 
> I use the PC partport to test all sorts of i2c stuff from displays to
> GHz chips.

This is beside the point, but to answer why buy anything?  Because some people don't have time to screw with it.  I could for example buy a PICkit for $50 and be done with it. Or, try to get several hours of free time without the kids bugging me and trying to ignore all the more important stuff I should be doing.  

But the real question was why anyone is spending so much on such obsolete hardware.

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#462721

On a sunny day (Fri, 2 Jun 2017 10:10:40 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
hondgm@yahoo.com wrote in
<2279bbfd-a251-41aa-bccd-dfe824cd1409@googlegroups.com>:

>On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 11:58:21 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Fri, 2 Jun 2017 08:49:14 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
>> hondgm@.com wrote in
>> <7b11ca83-5bbd-4915-8955-08e571c42b61@googlegroups.com>:
>> 
>
>> I wrote my own PIC programmer software and use a modified 'noppp' program=
>mer
>> and guess what: it uses the PC parport (just a PCI par port card),
>> oh wait and I made an interface cable and wrote a Raspbery GPIO version.
>> 
>> Why not?
>> USB to serial adaptors plenty here too, but USB sucks.
>> The most useful thing about the old PCs is the parport as I/O.
>> 
>> It, PIC, is a freaking simple 3 or 2 wire programming system, WHY buy any=
>thing?
>>  http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html
>>   all done with that programmer and gpasm in Linux, and without MPlab.
>> 
>> I use the PC partport to test all sorts of i2c stuff from displays to
>> GHz chips.
>
>This is beside the point,

Not really,

>but to answer why buy anything?  Because some people don't have time to screw with it.

See, that is already where you go wrong,
Programming does not 'stop' there, now you have your programmer it only STARTS there,
And for you to proceed you MUST know how the programming works,
read the related documents, else your program will be just like many out there,
needless tinkering bloated crap.
It is like saying: 'I do not have to know how pliers work, I can just build the cabinet'.

There is a 'top down' approach, and in the end it results is an app called 'mama' that sits on the CEO's desk
and all he has to know and do is say 'mama I want <whatever>' and it will be done.
President's desk too...


>I could for example buy a PICkit for $50 and be done with it.

No, now you need to program, and guess what, learn what you wanted to skip to save time.


>Or, try to get several hours of free time without the kids bugging me and trying to ignore all the more important stuff I should be doing.  

Huh I am multitasking 99% if not more of the time.


>But the real question was why anyone is spending so much on such obsolete hardware.

Maybe they like it and it is not so 'obsolete' as you may think OR WANT OTHERS TO THINK
Comprendre?

And on that tune, show me some code you wrote,

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#462730

On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 1:06:58 PM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Fri, 2 Jun 2017 10:10:40 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
> hondg@com wrote in
> <2279bbfd-a251-41aa-bccd-dfe824cd1409@googlegroups.com>:
> 
> >On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 11:58:21 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >> On a sunny day (Fri, 2 Jun 2017 08:49:14 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
> >> hondgm@.com wrote in
> >> <7b11ca83-5bbd-4915-8955-08e571c42b61@googlegroups.com>:
> >> 
> >
> >but to answer why buy anything?  Because some people don't have time to screw with it.
> 
> See, that is already where you go wrong,
> Programming does not 'stop' there, now you have your programmer it only STARTS there,
> And for you to proceed you MUST know how the programming works,
> read the related documents, else your program will be just like many out there,
> needless tinkering bloated crap.
> It is like saying: 'I do not have to know how pliers work, I can just build the cabinet'.
> 
Sounds like you assume I don't know how to program in C or assembly.  


> There is a 'top down' approach, and in the end it results is an app called 'mama' that sits on the CEO's desk
> and all he has to know and do is say 'mama I want <whatever>' and it will be done.
> President's desk too...
> 

Ummmm, what?  I don't know how we even got off on this tangent.

> 
> >I could for example buy a PICkit for $50 and be done with it.
> 
> No, now you need to program, and guess what, learn what you wanted to skip to save time.
> 

I know how to program.  The problem is getting the machine code into the PIC. 
 My original post was about a PIC programmer, not a "programmer" as in someone who writes code.

> 
> >Or, try to get several hours of free time without the kids bugging me and trying to ignore all the more important stuff I should be doing.  
> 
> Huh I am multitasking 99% if not more of the time.
> 
LOL you obviously haven't been around kids very much, especially toddlers.


> 
> >But the real question was why anyone is spending so much on such obsolete hardware.
> 
> Maybe they like it and it is not so 'obsolete' as you may think OR WANT OTHERS TO THINK
> Comprendre?

What's with the attitude?  You not getting any?  Seriously, what is your problem?


> 
> And on that tune, show me some code you wrote,

I have a webpage with projects I've built; schematics, source code, pictures and descriptions of how they work.  I believe I may have posted it here at one time. 
 I almost posted it for you but your attitude is pissing me off and I decided I got nothing to prove.

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#462735

On a sunny day (Fri, 2 Jun 2017 11:59:34 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
hondgm@yahoo.com wrote in
<dcc6da06-14e0-4196-ae05-6f2d00d38068@googlegroups.com>:

>> needless tinkering bloated crap.
>> It is like saying: 'I do not have to know how pliers work, I can just build the cabinet'.
>> 
>Sounds like you assume I don't know how to program in C or assembly.  

Why to you take it it refers to you?
Your question was 'Why do people'
I could not care less 'why do people', just ask them, I gave you why 'I' would.


>> There is a 'top down' approach, and in the end it results is an app called 'mama' that sits on the CEO's desk
>> and all he has to know and do is say 'mama I want <whatever>' and it will be done.
>> President's desk too...
>> 
>
>Ummmm, what?  I don't know how we even got off on this tangent.

Well that is your limitation :-)


>> 
>> >I could for example buy a PICkit for $50 and be done with it.
>> 
>> No, now you need to program, and guess what, learn what you wanted to skip to save time.
>> 
>
>I know how to program.  The problem is getting the machine code into the PIC. 

So then you do NOT know how to program, do not know the hardware, cannot design the hardware.
period.
I showed you how I did that.
Don't want to learn fine with me.

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#462739

On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 2:21:42 PM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Fri, 2 Jun 2017 11:59:34 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
> hondgm@.com wrote in
> <dcc6da06-14e0-4196-ae05-6f2d00d38068@googlegroups.com>:
> 

> >Sounds like you assume I don't know how to program in C or assembly.  
> 
> Why to you take it it refers to you?
> Your question was 'Why do people'
> I could not care less 'why do people', just ask them, I gave you why 'I' would.
> 
You didn't tell me why you'd buy an obsolete RS232-based PIC programmer.  That was my question.  You only told me why you'd make your own.

> 
> >> There is a 'top down' approach, and in the end it results is an app called 'mama' that sits on the CEO's desk
> >> and all he has to know and do is say 'mama I want <whatever>' and it will be done.
> >> President's desk too...
> >> 
> >
> >Ummmm, what?  I don't know how we even got off on this tangent.
> 
> Well that is your limitation :-)
> 
I guess.  What a condescending bunch.

> >I know how to program.  The problem is getting the machine code into the PIC. 
> 
> So then you do NOT know how to program, do not know the hardware, cannot >design the hardware.

If you're talking about designing a PIC programmer, yes, I do not care.  Sometimes I reinvent the wheel, but in this case there's no value for me to do so.  A micro programmer is a tool.  In the same way I don't make my own screwdrivers and wrenches, I don't care much to make my own programmer because it's a waste of time.  I'd rather design the product that contains the micro, that needs programming.

If you're talking about designing a circuit with a ucontroller, yes I can do that.  There's industrial products out there with PICs that I was the primary designer on.  I did the circuit design and firmware, and customers purchased them.  In fact there's an airport somewhere in eastern Europe with our equipment on their radar.  You can say any smart-ass thing you want but like I said I got nothing to prove.


> period.
> I showed you how I did that.
> Don't want to learn fine with me.

I'm always up for learning something useful, but so far you've only preached to me that I should build my own programmer instead of buying one, or something along those lines.

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#462745

On a sunny day (Fri, 2 Jun 2017 12:43:08 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
hondgm@yahoo.com wrote in
<bcbb8123-ab44-40a3-b926-0c459bcbc2ff@googlegroups.com>:

>I'm always up for learning something useful, but so far you've only preache=
>d to me that I should build my own programmer instead of buying one, or som=
>ething along those lines.

You know, YOU ask a question, one that shows you did not even do basic research into the subject.
if any of you humbug was true you would KNOW how to get and what to get for programmer,
and how to make your own.
Not knowing how the programmer and programming protocol works means you do not know how
to handle the related pins in the design. (In case of in circuit programming it puts restrictions
on the design),
You are just here to babble about something that you clearly are too <expletive> to even google for for a few minutes,
and at the same time saying you need so much to save time...
Go buy the f*cking thing from Microchip if you are that much in a hurry
and don't bother people who took the time and trouble to provide an alternative and wrote the soft for that.
End of discussion as far as i am concerned, find an other victim.
Waste of time you are.

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#462813

On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 3:43:11 PM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Fri, 2 Jun 2017 12:43:08 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
> hondgm@.com wrote in
> <bcbb8123-ab44-40a3-b926-0c459bcbc2ff@googlegroups.com>:
> 

> You know, YOU ask a question, one that shows you did not even do basic >research into the subject.
I started writing code for and programming PICs for 20 years bud, the CERDIP windowed type and I had a UV eraser.  I'm sure you've been doing it longer, but I'm just saying I didn't start yesterday.


> if any of you humbug was true you would KNOW how to get and what to get for >programmer, and how to make your own.

What do you mean "what to get for programmer"?  You think I was asking what I should buy for a programmer?  That's not what I was asking.  And like I said, it's my choice to not make my own programmer.  I got better things to do than to reinvent a perfectly good wheel.

> Not knowing how the programmer and programming protocol works means you do not >know how
> to handle the related pins in the design. (In case of in circuit programming >it puts restrictions on the design),
Hmmm, funny I've been able to get these things to work at all.  How on earth did any of the dozens of circuits I put together ever work??  What you're saying is like saying "you have to understand USB protocol to plug a thumb drive in".


> You are just here to babble about something that you clearly are too <expletive> to even google for for a few minutes,
> and at the same time saying you need so much to save time...

Do you even know what the original question was?  I'll repeat it for you: I asked why anyone is buying old obsolete PIC programmers for as much as new ones.  How does any of what you're saying pertain to this???

> Go buy the f*cking thing from Microchip if you are that much in a hurry
> and don't bother people who took the time and trouble to provide an alternative and wrote the soft for that.
> End of discussion as far as i am concerned, find an other victim.

I'm not buying anything.  Again, you obviously didn't read my original post.  It had nothing to do with me personally buying anything!!!  

> Waste of time you are.

That's ok.  The feeling is mutual. 

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#462852

On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 12:43:08 -0700 (PDT), hondgm@yahoo.com wrote:


>> >Ummmm, what?  I don't know how we even got off on this tangent.
>> 
>> Well that is your limitation :-)
>> 
>I guess.  What a condescending bunch.

Not "bunch", just Panteltje who exists to start flame fests.  Life
here will be much more pleasant once you put him in your killfile so
you won't have to see any of his spew?

As to your original question, could it be that the gadget in question
programs early PICs that more modern ones don't?  Or as my Mom, the
antique dealer used to say "Never throw away anything.  Someone
somewhere will buy it".  She was absolutely correct.

John

>
>> >I know how to program.  The problem is getting the machine code into the PIC. 
>> 
>> So then you do NOT know how to program, do not know the hardware, cannot >design the hardware.
>
>If you're talking about designing a PIC programmer, yes, I do not care.  Sometimes I reinvent the wheel, but in this case there's no value for me to do so.  A micro programmer is a tool.  In the same way I don't make my own screwdrivers and wrenches, I don't care much to make my own programmer because it's a waste of time.  I'd rather design the product that contains the micro, that needs programming.
>
>If you're talking about designing a circuit with a ucontroller, yes I can do that.  There's industrial products out there with PICs that I was the primary designer on.  I did the circuit design and firmware, and customers purchased them.  In fact there's an airport somewhere in eastern Europe with our equipment on their radar.  You can say any smart-ass thing you want but like I said I got nothing to prove.
>
>
>> period.
>> I showed you how I did that.
>> Don't want to learn fine with me.
>
>I'm always up for learning something useful, but so far you've only preached to me that I should build my own programmer instead of buying one, or something along those lines.
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com 
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

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#462927

On Saturday, June 3, 2017 at 10:44:49 AM UTC-5, Neon John wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 12:43:08 -0700 (PDT), hondgm@.com wrote:
> 
> 
> >> >Ummmm, what?  I don't know how we even got off on this tangent.
> >> 
> >> Well that is your limitation :-)
> >> 
> >I guess.  What a condescending bunch.
> 
> Not "bunch", just Panteltje who exists to start flame fests.  Life
> here will be much more pleasant once you put him in your killfile so
> you won't have to see any of his spew?
> 

You're right, that's not the general attitude.  I was thinking of another person, also with a 3-letter first name  that starts with a J.  He's not as bad as Jan apparently but likes to start arguments.

Good to know Jan is off his rocker.

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#462743

On 6/2/2017 1:59 PM, hondgm@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 1:06:58 PM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Fri, 2 Jun 2017 10:10:40 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
>> hondg@com wrote in
>> <2279bbfd-a251-41aa-bccd-dfe824cd1409@googlegroups.com>:
>>
>>> On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 11:58:21 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> On a sunny day (Fri, 2 Jun 2017 08:49:14 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
>>>> hondgm@.com wrote in
>>>> <7b11ca83-5bbd-4915-8955-08e571c42b61@googlegroups.com>:
>>>>
>>>
>>> but to answer why buy anything?  Because some people don't have time to screw with it.
>>
>> See, that is already where you go wrong,
>> Programming does not 'stop' there, now you have your programmer it only STARTS there,
>> And for you to proceed you MUST know how the programming works,
>> read the related documents, else your program will be just like many out there,
>> needless tinkering bloated crap.
>> It is like saying: 'I do not have to know how pliers work, I can just build the cabinet'.
>>
> Sounds like you assume I don't know how to program in C or assembly.
> 
> 
>> There is a 'top down' approach, and in the end it results is an app called 'mama' that sits on the CEO's desk
>> and all he has to know and do is say 'mama I want <whatever>' and it will be done.
>> President's desk too...
>>
> 
> Ummmm, what?  I don't know how we even got off on this tangent.
> 
>>
>>> I could for example buy a PICkit for $50 and be done with it.
>>
>> No, now you need to program, and guess what, learn what you wanted to skip to save time.
>>
> 
> I know how to program.  The problem is getting the machine code into the PIC.
>   My original post was about a PIC programmer, not a "programmer" as in someone who writes code.
> 
>>
>>> Or, try to get several hours of free time without the kids bugging me and trying to ignore all the more important stuff I should be doing.
>>
>> Huh I am multitasking 99% if not more of the time.
>>

You're lucky to be part of the 2.5% of people that can do that effectively.

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#462910

On 03/06/2017 03:10, hondgm@yahoo.com wrote:
> I could for example buy a PICkit for $50 and be done with it.

I think you would have to buy 2 or 3 of them, so that you can keep 
working when the first one dies. I find that PICKit3s seem to kill 
themselves from time to time, I suspect due to some design flaw. I don't 
think it is ESD, as the circuit that I am programming has never died but 
multiple PICkits have. No, it is not that the internal PIC has lost its 
program, although that is also reported to be common - mine still get 
recognised by the PC and produce waveforms at the programming terminals, 
just the MCLR voltage is wrong iirc and it reports no target device 
connected. At one stage I started trying to fault-find one of the 
PICKIT3s - but I didn't have the time as I was supposed to be working on 
firmware for someone. Anyway I have a collection of dead PICKit3s to 
repair one day. No, they are not still covered by
http://www.microchip.com/cisar/Home.aspx
they want $25 (plus postage + hasle + waiting) to fix them, so at this 
time buying more new ones from the distributor was a better option.

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#462718

>I was perusing eBay recently and noticed these old Picstart Programmers going for
>about $50.  Why???!!  With an RS232 port and I'm sure limited capability, the only
>theory I have is as collector's items.

At a guess: one market for them would be people who want/need to
program certain legacy PIC chips that require a parallel interface and
(I think) a relatively high programming voltage.

The modern PIC chips use a "very few pins" serial programming
interface, and the modern batch of inexpensive chip programmers often
do not implement the parallal programming algorithm for PIC.

Another option, of course, would be to disassemble the code for the
older PICs, and port it to a modern PIC chip.  However, I suspect that
this may well be a non-trivial task in many cases - the chip pinouts
and the peripheral sets are different enough to require significant
re-engineering.

So, for people who are repairing older hardware that uses the legacy
PIC chips, or building "clones" of these devices, it may simply be
cheapest and least-hassle to buy a tube of the old parts, and an old
Picstart.

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#462744

On 6/2/2017 8:49 AM, hondgm@yahoo.com wrote:
> I was perusing eBay recently and noticed these old Picstart Programmers
> going for about $50.  Why???!!  With an RS232 port and I'm sure limited
> capability, the only theory I have is as collector's items.

How much of your *time* would $50 buy?

Or, more generously, how much of your time would you SPEND $50 to *save*?

Cables are reasonably mindless undertakings.  Why would anyone *buy* a
cable when they could MAKE one for far less money?

I.e., if you have a *need*, then YOU decide what the most effective way
to satisfy that need is likely to be.  Build vs. Buy?  Or, use something
*other* than a PIC??

I've got an old Compaq Portable 386 (lunchbox) that I use as a "two slot
ISA machine" for some legacy tools that I support.  It harkens from
the days of 20MB 5" disk drives.  I can either try to find a tiny IDE
drive that its' BIOS will recognize -- or, modify its BIOS to support
a "less tiny" (but still incredibly tiny!) disk drive.

[I chose the latter option]

Should I replace the EPROMs holding the BIOS with FLASH devices?
Or, erase/reprogram them directly -- which requires a UV light source
and a PROM programmer.

Will the PROM programmer have a USB interface?  Serial?  Parallel?
Ethernet?

etc.  How far down this list of prerequisites do you travel before
you consider it "not worth your effort"?

[BTW, I keep a slew of old "development boards" in the garage for just
that sort of legacy problem solving]

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#462808

On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 3:03:40 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
> On 6/2/2017 8:49 AM, hondgm@.com wrote:
> > I was perusing eBay recently and noticed these old Picstart Programmers
> > going for about $50.  Why???!!  With an RS232 port and I'm sure limited
> > capability, the only theory I have is as collector's items.
> 
> How much of your *time* would $50 buy?
> 
> Or, more generously, how much of your time would you SPEND $50 to *save*?
> 
> Cables are reasonably mindless undertakings.  Why would anyone *buy* a
> cable when they could MAKE one for far less money?
> 


Just so you know, the item I'm referring to isn't a cable.  It's more complex than just a cable.

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#462822

On 6/2/2017 6:17 PM, hondgm@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 3:03:40 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
>> On 6/2/2017 8:49 AM, hondgm@.com wrote:
>>> I was perusing eBay recently and noticed these old Picstart Programmers
>>> going for about $50.  Why???!!  With an RS232 port and I'm sure limited
>>> capability, the only theory I have is as collector's items.
>>
>> How much of your *time* would $50 buy?
>>
>> Or, more generously, how much of your time would you SPEND $50 to *save*?
>>
>> Cables are reasonably mindless undertakings.  Why would anyone *buy* a
>> cable when they could MAKE one for far less money?
>
> Just so you know, the item I'm referring to isn't a cable.  It's more complex than just a cable.

Doesn't matter.  I can hack together a cable, circuit board, FPGA, etc.
to tackle a problem I'm faced with.

But, if I can *buy* a solution -- esp for very few dollars (which is where "50"
fits on the scale) -- then its almost always a smarter way to use my time!

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#462837

On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 9:47:11 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:

> 
> But, if I can *buy* a solution -- esp for very few dollars (which is where "50"
> fits on the scale) -- then its almost always a smarter way to use my time!

THANK YOU.  Now, will someone please try to explain that to Jan.  Or, maybe don't as I have a feeling it's a waste of time.

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#462876

On 6/3/2017 3:56 AM, hondgm@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 9:47:11 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
>
>>
>> But, if I can *buy* a solution -- esp for very few dollars (which is where
>> "50" fits on the scale) -- then its almost always a smarter way to use my
>> time!
>
> THANK YOU.  Now, will someone please try to explain that to Jan.  Or, maybe
> don't as I have a feeling it's a waste of time.

People have their own motivations behind *their* decisions.

I routinely repair LCD monitors.  If you look at the *time* required
of me to do so, it's silly -- I should spend that hour as billable
time and use the monies received to *buy* a new monitor!  But, it's
a no-brainer activity, for me, and justifies itself as:
- diverting scrap from landfills
- "simple" problem solving (like putting together a jigsaw puzzle -- no
   effort required there!)

Likewise, doing periodic maintenance on the cars.  At $90/hour for the
dealer's time, its cheaper to let *him* do everything!  OTOH, if I have
to put in an hour of my time to drive to/from the dealership and have
to sit in a waiting room while he does the work, then I've not saved
any (billable) time.

And, if I put *my* head under the hood, *I* can see what's really happening,
there, instead of trusting to a grease monkey to spot issues before they
become "problems".

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#462879

> > But, if I can *buy* a solution -- esp for very few dollars (which is where "50"
> > fits on the scale) -- then its almost always a smarter way to use my time!
> 
> THANK YOU.  Now, will someone please try to explain that to Jan.  Or, maybe don't as I have a feeling it's a waste of time.

It is a waste of time. The guy has some pretty obvious issues.

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