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OT new Li battery?

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  OT new Li battery? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-05-23 09:25 -0700
    Re: OT new Li battery? sdy <sdeyoreo@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-23 09:33 -0700
      Re: OT new Li battery? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-05-23 10:35 -0700
        Re: OT new Li battery? Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-23 18:08 +0000
          Re: OT new Li battery? edward.ming.lee@gmail.com - 2017-05-23 11:23 -0700
            Re: OT new Li battery? Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-23 19:46 +0000
          Re: OT new Li battery? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-05-23 12:06 -0700
            Re: OT new Li battery? Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-23 19:43 +0000
    Re: OT new Li battery? Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-23 09:42 -0700
    Re: OT new Li battery? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-05-23 12:48 -0400
      Re: OT new Li battery? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-23 15:50 -0400
        Re: OT new Li battery? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-23 15:53 -0400
          Re: OT new Li battery? Bill Martin <wwm@wwmartin.net> - 2017-05-23 15:53 -0700
          Re: OT new Li battery? krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-23 20:33 -0400
    Re: OT new Li battery? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-05-24 09:07 +1000
    Re: OT new Li battery? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-05-24 13:39 +1000
      Re: OT new Li battery? George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-05-24 06:22 -0700
        Re: OT new Li battery? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-24 12:25 -0400
    Re: OT new Li battery? Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2017-05-25 23:40 -0800
      Re: OT new Li battery? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-05-26 16:58 +1000
        Re: OT new Li battery? Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-05-26 08:40 -0700
          Re: OT new Li battery? Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2017-05-27 01:33 +0200

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#461376 — OT new Li battery?

I heard about this on the radio driving home last night.
https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology
Here's the paper.
https://docs.wind-watch.org/braga2017.pdf

Lunch time reading.  

George H. 

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#461379

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 12:25:30 PM UTC-4, George Herold wrote:
> I heard about this on the radio driving home last night.
> https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology
> Here's the paper.
> https://docs.wind-watch.org/braga2017.pdf
> 
> Lunch time reading.  
> 
> George H.

Heard about this a while ago. Looks good. I saw a demo where the battery was cut in half with scissors while still powering a device. it still powered the device.
Seems the old liquid electrolyte was highly flammable when the lithium hit the oxygen in the air. The whiskers cause a short which heats the electrlyte which expands, pops the case and reacts with the oxygen.

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#461391

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 12:33:13 PM UTC-4, sdy wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 12:25:30 PM UTC-4, George Herold wrote:
> > I heard about this on the radio driving home last night.
> > https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology
> > Here's the paper.
> > https://docs.wind-watch.org/braga2017.pdf
> > 
> > Lunch time reading.  
> > 
> > George H.
> 
> Heard about this a while ago. Looks good. I saw a demo where the battery was cut in half with scissors while still powering a device. it still powered the device.

Oh I saw that too, I didn't realize it was the same device.  

George H. 
> Seems the old liquid electrolyte was highly flammable when the lithium hit the oxygen in the air. The whiskers cause a short which heats the electrlyte which expands, pops the case and reacts with the oxygen.

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#461398

On a sunny day (Tue, 23 May 2017 10:35:10 -0700 (PDT)) it happened George
Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in
<43cad07d-3e24-445a-9e76-87a239bb8258@googlegroups.com>:

>On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 12:33:13 PM UTC-4, sdy wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 12:25:30 PM UTC-4, George Herold wrote:
>> > I heard about this on the radio driving home last night.
>> > https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology
>> > Here's the paper.
>> > https://docs.wind-watch.org/braga2017.pdf
>> > 
>> > Lunch time reading.  
>> > 
>> > George H.
>> 
>> Heard about this a while ago. Looks good. I saw a demo where the battery was cut in half with scissors while still powering a
>> device. it still powered the device.
>
>Oh I saw that too, I didn't realize it was the same device.  
>
>George H. 

Yes, I even commented on it on youtube ages ago...
In my view a 100% (or even more) better battery is announced very few weeks.
If any of it was true, then 2x2x2 .. you could by now power NY from a battery the size of a        sugar cube.

Let's wait for it to be in the shops.
Better for Tesla too, needs to rebuild his factory...

BTW do you not design things for students?
Regarding that lecture by whatshisname about Higgs,
I remember as a kid my parents took me to the exhibition 'the atom' it was in Schiphol airport in Amsterdam.
there was, among many other things, a huge cloud chamber:
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_chamber 

If you watch the traces it is just like those Feynman diagrams, actually much a verbatim copy of what was seen
later using huge photo multipliers.
So it is a natural to me, I guess if you are exposed at very young age to something it is easier.

Some years ? ago I made my own in a small plastic box, actually did see some traces.
Much stuff like that is on youtube if you google cloud chamber, for example:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiscokCGOhs

Apart from the funny math if electronics was as simple as physics models ...

In those early days everything was radioactive, from light switches with radium to radium hands on watches
to what not.
I grew up drinking from uranium glassware, until mama got the news that was dangerous,
then I switched to melting solder.
And that does explain a lot I think.

So maybe you could sell cloud-chambers to get the kids interested?

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#461404

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 11:08:07 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Tue, 23 May 2017 10:35:10 -0700 (PDT)) it happened George
> Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in
> <43cad07d-3e24-445a-9e76-87a239bb8258@googlegroups.com>:
> 
> >On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 12:33:13 PM UTC-4, sdy wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 12:25:30 PM UTC-4, George Herold wrote:
> >> > I heard about this on the radio driving home last night.
> >> > https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology
> >> > Here's the paper.
> >> > https://docs.wind-watch.org/braga2017.pdf
> >> > 
> >> > Lunch time reading.  
> >> > 
> >> > George H.
> >> 
> >> Heard about this a while ago. Looks good. I saw a demo where the battery was cut in half with scissors while still powering a
> >> device. it still powered the device.
> >
> >Oh I saw that too, I didn't realize it was the same device.  
> >
> >George H. 
> 
> Yes, I even commented on it on youtube ages ago...
> In my view a 100% (or even more) better battery is announced very few weeks.
> If any of it was true, then 2x2x2 .. you could by now power NY from a battery the size of a        sugar cube.

Not until they get to the DiLithium crystal (or DiSodium?).  Star Trek is for real.

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#461417

On a sunny day (Tue, 23 May 2017 11:23:49 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote in
<a2464a88-1296-4473-8144-4731ac187ac2@googlegroups.com>:

>On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 11:08:07 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Tue, 23 May 2017 10:35:10 -0700 (PDT)) it happened George
>> Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in
>> <43cad07d-3e24-445a-9e76-87a239bb8258@googlegroups.com>:
>> 
>> >On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 12:33:13 PM UTC-4, sdy wrote:
>> >> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 12:25:30 PM UTC-4, George Herold wrote:
>> >> > I heard about this on the radio driving home last night.
>> >> > https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology
>> >> > Here's the paper.
>> >> > https://docs.wind-watch.org/braga2017.pdf
>> >> > 
>> >> > Lunch time reading.  
>> >> > 
>> >> > George H.
>> >> 
>> >> Heard about this a while ago. Looks good. I saw a demo where the battery was cut in half with scissors while still powering
>> >> a
>> >> device. it still powered the device.
>> >
>> >Oh I saw that too, I didn't realize it was the same device.  
>> >
>> >George H. 
>> 
>> Yes, I even commented on it on youtube ages ago...
>> In my view a 100% (or even more) better battery is announced very few weeks.
>> If any of it was true, then 2x2x2 .. you could by now power NY from a battery the size of a        sugar cube.
>
>Not until they get to the DiLithium crystal (or DiSodium?).  Star Trek is for real.

Yea, those windmils are no good, terrorist can gain control,
power those and spin them the wrong way and earth rotation changes,
 

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#461410

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 2:08:07 PM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Tue, 23 May 2017 10:35:10 -0700 (PDT)) it happened George
> Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in
> <43cad07d-3e24-445a-9e76-87a239bb8258@googlegroups.com>:
> 
> >On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 12:33:13 PM UTC-4, sdy wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 12:25:30 PM UTC-4, George Herold wrote:
> >> > I heard about this on the radio driving home last night.
> >> > https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology
> >> > Here's the paper.
> >> > https://docs.wind-watch.org/braga2017.pdf
> >> > 
> >> > Lunch time reading.  
> >> > 
> >> > George H.
> >> 
> >> Heard about this a while ago. Looks good. I saw a demo where the battery was cut in half with scissors while still powering a
> >> device. it still powered the device.
> >
> >Oh I saw that too, I didn't realize it was the same device.  
> >
> >George H. 
> 
> Yes, I even commented on it on youtube ages ago...
> In my view a 100% (or even more) better battery is announced very few weeks.
> If any of it was true, then 2x2x2 .. you could by now power NY from a battery the size of a        sugar cube.
> 
> Let's wait for it to be in the shops.
> Better for Tesla too, needs to rebuild his factory...
> 
> BTW do you not design things for students?
> Regarding that lecture by whatshisname about Higgs,
> I remember as a kid my parents took me to the exhibition 'the atom' it was in Schiphol airport in Amsterdam.
> there was, among many other things, a huge cloud chamber:
>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_chamber 
> 
> If you watch the traces it is just like those Feynman diagrams, actually much a verbatim copy of what was seen
> later using huge photo multipliers.
> So it is a natural to me, I guess if you are exposed at very young age to something it is easier.
> 
> Some years ? ago I made my own in a small plastic box, actually did see some traces.
> Much stuff like that is on youtube if you google cloud chamber, for example:
>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiscokCGOhs
> 
> Apart from the funny math if electronics was as simple as physics models ...
> 
> In those early days everything was radioactive, from light switches with radium to radium hands on watches
> to what not.
> I grew up drinking from uranium glassware, until mama got the news that was dangerous,
> then I switched to melting solder.
> And that does explain a lot I think.
> 
> So maybe you could sell cloud-chambers to get the kids interested?

I've always wanted to make a cloud chamber.  (But there's a whole bunch of 
stuff I'd like to do.)  Looks like there are already several manufacturers.
(so there's that.)
http://www.cloudylabs.fr/wp/eng/
https://www.phywe.com/en/diffusion-cloud-chamber-80-x-80-cm-pj-80-230-v.html#tabs5

I think the big problem for me is that it's really only a demo.  
I want to get real numbers out of something.  (Sure you can add a B-Field,
measure curvature and figure out momentum.)  But not all that great.  
(and you want big uniform fields)  And you need a radioactive source..
it's harder to get those these days.  
And what do the students do?  What knobs can they turn?  It would be fun 
to get it up and running, but after that I find it boring.  

George H. 
 

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#461416

On a sunny day (Tue, 23 May 2017 12:06:10 -0700 (PDT)) it happened George
Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in
<10696c39-5478-46f8-beed-dc1a0e9c19c2@googlegroups.com>:

>I've always wanted to make a cloud chamber.  (But there's a whole bunch of 
>stuff I'd like to do.)  Looks like there are already several manufacturers.
>(so there's that.)
>http://www.cloudylabs.fr/wp/eng/
>https://www.phywe.com/en/diffusion-cloud-chamber-80-x-80-cm-pj-80-230-v.html#tabs5
>
>I think the big problem for me is that it's really only a demo.  
>I want to get real numbers out of something.  (Sure you can add a B-Field,
>measure curvature and figure out momentum.)  But not all that great.  
>(and you want big uniform fields)  And you need a radioactive source..
>it's harder to get those these days.  

Oh, not that hard.. 
May become easier when Trump has a go...

>And what do the students do?  What knobs can they turn?  It would be fun 
>to get it up and running, but after that I find it boring.  

Yes, after I did see some traces I went on to something else.
OTOH there is a lot of info to be found, understanding to be gained.
Your own little CERN :-)

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#461381

George Herold wrote...
>
> I heard about this on the radio driving home last night.
>https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology
> Here's the paper.
> https://docs.wind-watch.org/braga2017.pdf
> 
> Lunch time reading.  

 "UT Austin Office of Technology Commercialization is
 actively negotiating license agreements with multiple
 companies engaged in a variety of battery-related
 industry segments." 


-- 
 Thanks,
    - Win

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#461383

On 05/23/2017 12:25 PM, George Herold wrote:
> I heard about this on the radio driving home last night.
> https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology
> Here's the paper.
> https://docs.wind-watch.org/braga2017.pdf
> 
> Lunch time reading.  
> 
> George H. 
> 

Cool.  Hope they start making them soon.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

-- 
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

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#461418

Phil Hobbs wrote:
> On 05/23/2017 12:25 PM, George Herold wrote:
>> I heard about this on the radio driving home last night.
>> https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology
>> Here's the paper.
>> https://docs.wind-watch.org/braga2017.pdf
>>
>> Lunch time reading.
>>
>> George H.
>>
>
> Cool.  Hope they start making them soon.

I expect I heard the same radio report.  The inventor is John Goodenough 
who was a pioneer in the original Li ion battery, used LiCoO2 as the 
positive terminal which allowed the technology to be economically 
practical.  Since the material donates Li ions, it allows the negative 
terminal to be something *other* than metallic Lithium which makes the 
batteries much safer (in spite of the reports of the dangers of Li Ion 
batteries).

I think he has some street creds, but then so did Linus Pauling.  The 
radio report said some scientists feel Goodenough's claims violate the 
1st law of thermodynamics.  I haven't read the paper myself.

-- 

Rick C

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#461419

rickman wrote:
> Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> On 05/23/2017 12:25 PM, George Herold wrote:
>>> I heard about this on the radio driving home last night.
>>> https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology
>>>
>>> Here's the paper.
>>> https://docs.wind-watch.org/braga2017.pdf
>>>
>>> Lunch time reading.
>>>
>>> George H.
>>>
>>
>> Cool.  Hope they start making them soon.
>
> I expect I heard the same radio report.  The inventor is John Goodenough
> who was a pioneer in the original Li ion battery, used LiCoO2 as the
> positive terminal which allowed the technology to be economically
> practical.  Since the material donates Li ions, it allows the negative
> terminal to be something *other* than metallic Lithium which makes the
> batteries much safer (in spite of the reports of the dangers of Li Ion
> batteries).
>
> I think he has some street creds, but then so did Linus Pauling.  The
> radio report said some scientists feel Goodenough's claims violate the
> 1st law of thermodynamics.  I haven't read the paper myself.

I forgot to mention, like many new technologies, the main problem is the 
cost.  So Goodenough may be just the guy to find a way past that.

-- 

Rick C

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#461454

On 05/23/2017 12:53 PM, rickman wrote:
> rickman wrote:
>> Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> On 05/23/2017 12:25 PM, George Herold wrote:
>>>> I heard about this on the radio driving home last night.
>>>> https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here's the paper.
>>>> https://docs.wind-watch.org/braga2017.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Lunch time reading.
>>>>
>>>> George H.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Cool.  Hope they start making them soon.
>>
>> I expect I heard the same radio report.  The inventor is John Goodenough
>> who was a pioneer in the original Li ion battery, used LiCoO2 as the
>> positive terminal which allowed the technology to be economically
>> practical.  Since the material donates Li ions, it allows the negative
>> terminal to be something *other* than metallic Lithium which makes the
>> batteries much safer (in spite of the reports of the dangers of Li Ion
>> batteries).
>>
>> I think he has some street creds, but then so did Linus Pauling.  The
>> radio report said some scientists feel Goodenough's claims violate the
>> 1st law of thermodynamics.  I haven't read the paper myself.
> 
> I forgot to mention, like many new technologies, the main problem is the 
> cost.  So Goodenough may be just the guy to find a way past that.
> 
that would be good enough...

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#461478

On Tue, 23 May 2017 15:53:40 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

>rickman wrote:
>> Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> On 05/23/2017 12:25 PM, George Herold wrote:
>>>> I heard about this on the radio driving home last night.
>>>> https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology
>>>>
>>>> Here's the paper.
>>>> https://docs.wind-watch.org/braga2017.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Lunch time reading.
>>>>
>>>> George H.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Cool.  Hope they start making them soon.
>>
>> I expect I heard the same radio report.  The inventor is John Goodenough
>> who was a pioneer in the original Li ion battery, used LiCoO2 as the
>> positive terminal which allowed the technology to be economically
>> practical.  Since the material donates Li ions, it allows the negative
>> terminal to be something *other* than metallic Lithium which makes the
>> batteries much safer (in spite of the reports of the dangers of Li Ion
>> batteries).
>>
>> I think he has some street creds, but then so did Linus Pauling.  The
>> radio report said some scientists feel Goodenough's claims violate the
>> 1st law of thermodynamics.  I haven't read the paper myself.
>
>I forgot to mention, like many new technologies, the main problem is the 
>cost.  So Goodenough may be just the guy to find a way past that.

Well, at least good enough.

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#461459

On 24/05/17 02:25, George Herold wrote:
> I heard about this on the radio driving home last night.
> https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology
> Here's the paper.
> https://docs.wind-watch.org/braga2017.pdf

Sounds like magic!

Can anyone explain how a glass can have a high dielectric constant,
be an electrolyte, and be conductive, all at the same time?

Clifford Heath

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#461494

On 24/05/17 02:25, George Herold wrote:
> I heard about this on the radio driving home last night.
> https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology
> Here's the paper.
> https://docs.wind-watch.org/braga2017.pdf
>
> Lunch time reading.

It seems there's plenty of skepticism:

<http://lacey.se/2017/03/29/on-the-skepticism-surrounding-the-goodenough-battery/>

Clifford Heath

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#461533

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 11:39:53 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
> On 24/05/17 02:25, George Herold wrote:
> > I heard about this on the radio driving home last night.
> > https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology
> > Here's the paper.
> > https://docs.wind-watch.org/braga2017.pdf
> >
> > Lunch time reading.
> 
> It seems there's plenty of skepticism:
> 
> <http://lacey.se/2017/03/29/on-the-skepticism-surrounding-the-goodenough-battery/>
> 
> Clifford Heath

Hmm Thanks Clifford.  Well time will tell.  A lot of that seems to be 
about a lack of understanding of the mechanism.  And then some carping 
about bad coverage/ exaggerations from the press.  
(I skimmed some of the middle sections.)

George H.  

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#461553

George Herold wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 11:39:53 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
>> On 24/05/17 02:25, George Herold wrote:
>>> I heard about this on the radio driving home last night.
>>> https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology
>>> Here's the paper.
>>> https://docs.wind-watch.org/braga2017.pdf
>>>
>>> Lunch time reading.
>>
>> It seems there's plenty of skepticism:
>>
>> <http://lacey.se/2017/03/29/on-the-skepticism-surrounding-the-goodenough-battery/>
>>
>> Clifford Heath
>
> Hmm Thanks Clifford.  Well time will tell.  A lot of that seems to be
> about a lack of understanding of the mechanism.  And then some carping
> about bad coverage/ exaggerations from the press.
> (I skimmed some of the middle sections.)

You might want to read the article fully.  There are concerns with the 
basic theory of how it works as well as the experimental methods of 
collecting data as described in the research papers.  All in all I think 
there are serious concerns that need to be addressed.

This may well turn out to be another Linus Pauling and vitamin C 
although I hope not.  Battery technology is largely stalled and a major 
advance like this would open up HUGE markets.

-- 

Rick C

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#461770

George Herold wrote:
> I heard about this on the radio driving home last night.
> https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology
Secure Connection Failed
           An error occurred during a connection to news.utexas.edu.

> Here's the paper.
> https://docs.wind-watch.org/braga2017.pdf
>
> Lunch time reading.
>
> George H.

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#461773

On 26/05/17 17:40, Robert Baer wrote:
> George Herold wrote:
>> I heard about this on the radio driving home last night.
>> https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology
>>
> Secure Connection Failed
>           An error occurred during a connection to news.utexas.edu.

As usual, the problem seems to be at your end.

Please, either update your technology or stop telling us about your 
problems with it.

Clifford Heath

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