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Groups > sci.electronics.design > #453060 > unrolled thread
| Started by | John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-03-22 10:18 -0700 |
| Last post | 2017-03-24 09:04 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 109 — 22 participants |
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ot drilling glass John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 10:18 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass Bill Martin <wwm@wwmartin.net> - 2017-03-22 10:32 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-03-22 11:23 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-03-22 14:28 -0500
Re: ot drilling glass John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 12:35 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 12:15 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-03-22 14:31 -0500
Re: ot drilling glass John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 12:44 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-03-22 16:22 -0500
Re: ot drilling glass George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-22 18:37 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-22 22:25 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-22 20:06 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 21:06 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-23 13:13 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-03-22 19:56 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-22 20:24 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 21:07 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-03-22 22:54 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-03-23 04:50 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass jurb6006@gmail.com - 2017-03-22 13:24 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-22 17:11 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-03-22 16:17 -0500
Re: ot drilling glass John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-03-22 15:36 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass gregz <zekor@comcast.net> - 2017-03-24 07:55 +0000
Re: ot drilling glass krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-24 22:50 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-03-22 14:26 -0500
Re: ot drilling glass John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 12:49 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-22 18:41 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2017-03-22 19:45 -0800
Re: ot drilling glass krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-22 13:37 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 10:56 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-03-22 11:29 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 12:23 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-03-22 13:34 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 14:23 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-22 18:50 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 10:45 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-25 18:22 +1100
Re: ot drilling glass John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-25 08:53 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-25 13:05 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-25 16:18 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-25 20:40 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-26 08:07 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-26 20:09 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-26 17:43 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-26 20:50 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-25 16:17 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-25 20:12 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-26 04:39 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-03-26 05:17 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-26 06:03 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-03-26 09:15 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-26 10:54 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-03-26 18:43 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-03-27 19:21 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-03-28 09:30 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-27 08:11 +1100
Re: ot drilling glass George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-28 06:45 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-28 08:08 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-28 08:48 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-26 08:08 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-26 16:16 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass Mikko OH2HVJ <mikko.syrjalahti@nospam.fi> - 2017-03-26 22:10 +0300
Re: ot drilling glass George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-28 06:58 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-28 07:18 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-28 08:41 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-28 08:13 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-03-28 16:52 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-28 19:52 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-03-28 20:35 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-26 04:44 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-26 08:10 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-03-26 09:37 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-26 10:58 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-03-26 16:18 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-26 17:42 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-22 20:12 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 17:24 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-22 20:46 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 21:14 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-03-22 22:58 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-23 13:15 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-03-23 12:10 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 15:28 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-03-23 14:06 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 20:48 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-03-23 18:05 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass krw@notreal.com - 2017-03-23 20:31 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 15:25 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-23 17:37 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-22 13:44 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass Kevin Glover <kevinfglover@yahoo.com> - 2017-03-22 11:22 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-03-22 11:44 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-22 15:07 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-03-22 12:19 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-22 15:51 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-03-22 13:58 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-22 17:05 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-03-22 16:26 -0500
Re: ot drilling glass rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-22 18:00 -0400
Re: ot drilling glass John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 12:30 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-22 18:29 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 21:16 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass Mikko OH2HVJ <mikko.syrjalahti@nospam.fi> - 2017-03-22 21:36 +0200
Re: ot drilling glass John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-22 12:54 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-03-22 14:39 -0500
Re: ot drilling glass alan.yeager.2013@gmail.com - 2017-03-23 18:07 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 04:20 -0700
Re: ot drilling glass John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-03-24 09:04 -0700
Page 5 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 Next page →
| From | John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-22 22:58 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <2vudnbcJU4V1_k7FnZ2dnUU7-VudnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #453187 |
On 2017/03/22 9:14 PM, John Larkin wrote: > On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:46:12 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: > >> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 17:24:51 -0700, John Larkin >> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:12:23 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:56:20 -0700, John Larkin >>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 13:37:34 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:18:44 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have some double-pane windows that are getting moisture trapped >>>>>>> inside. I've found that drilling a little vent hole fixes that. >>>>>> >>>>>> If the seal is broken (moisture between the panes), the windows need >>>>>> to be replaced. They can't be fixed. >>>>> >>>>> Drilling a vent hole seems to work fine. It lets the moisture out. >>>> >>>> And back in. You'll always have a condensation problem. >>> >>> Except that I haven't. >> >> yet. > > Some of the ones here, I drilled two and three years ago. The > condensation went away in a few days. Seem fine winter and summer. > Well, one tiny spider got inside one, from the outside. Hence a suggestion to plug the hole, or perhaps use a filter to keep dust and critters out. > > Seems to me like a vented 2-pane window is less prone to condensation > than a single-pane. Less heat conduction to drive condensation. > > Condensation will ruin the R value of the window, so drilling a vent hole can't hurt for improving efficiency! Unless the glass breaks. John
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| From | krw@notreal.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 13:15 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <kj08dch6sqomorpukh1kc064jlpjlrps4h@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #453187 |
On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 21:14:09 -0700, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:46:12 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: > >>On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 17:24:51 -0700, John Larkin >><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >> >>>On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:12:23 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>> >>>>On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:56:20 -0700, John Larkin >>>><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>>On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 13:37:34 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:18:44 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I have some double-pane windows that are getting moisture trapped >>>>>>>inside. I've found that drilling a little vent hole fixes that. >>>>>> >>>>>>If the seal is broken (moisture between the panes), the windows need >>>>>>to be replaced. They can't be fixed. >>>>> >>>>>Drilling a vent hole seems to work fine. It lets the moisture out. >>>> >>>>And back in. You'll always have a condensation problem. >>> >>>Except that I haven't. >> >>yet. > >Some of the ones here, I drilled two and three years ago. The >condensation went away in a few days. Seem fine winter and summer. >Well, one tiny spider got inside one, from the outside. > >Seems to me like a vented 2-pane window is less prone to condensation >than a single-pane. Less heat conduction to drive condensation. If the moisture got in there because of a failed seal, you've just added to the "failure". Under the right (wrong) conditions, it *will* fog again.
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| From | John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 12:10 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <PrmdnTYYhPpcgEnFnZ2dnUU7-TXNnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #453242 |
On 2017/03/23 10:15 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote: > On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 21:14:09 -0700, John Larkin > <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:46:12 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 17:24:51 -0700, John Larkin >>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:12:23 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:56:20 -0700, John Larkin >>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 13:37:34 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:18:44 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have some double-pane windows that are getting moisture trapped >>>>>>>> inside. I've found that drilling a little vent hole fixes that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If the seal is broken (moisture between the panes), the windows need >>>>>>> to be replaced. They can't be fixed. >>>>>> >>>>>> Drilling a vent hole seems to work fine. It lets the moisture out. >>>>> >>>>> And back in. You'll always have a condensation problem. >>>> >>>> Except that I haven't. >>> >>> yet. >> >> Some of the ones here, I drilled two and three years ago. The >> condensation went away in a few days. Seem fine winter and summer. >> Well, one tiny spider got inside one, from the outside. >> >> Seems to me like a vented 2-pane window is less prone to condensation >> than a single-pane. Less heat conduction to drive condensation. > > If the moisture got in there because of a failed seal, you've just > added to the "failure". Under the right (wrong) conditions, it *will* > fog again. > I agree, however if one is looking for a temporary (perhaps a couple of years?) solution then this may get one by. Certainly a double glazed window with moisture trapped inside will have a terrible R number! John
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 15:28 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ob17fk$bc9$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #453251 |
On 3/23/2017 3:10 PM, John Robertson wrote: > On 2017/03/23 10:15 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote: >> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 21:14:09 -0700, John Larkin >> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:46:12 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 17:24:51 -0700, John Larkin >>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:12:23 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:56:20 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 13:37:34 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:18:44 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have some double-pane windows that are getting moisture trapped >>>>>>>>> inside. I've found that drilling a little vent hole fixes that. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If the seal is broken (moisture between the panes), the windows >>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>> to be replaced. They can't be fixed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Drilling a vent hole seems to work fine. It lets the moisture out. >>>>>> >>>>>> And back in. You'll always have a condensation problem. >>>>> >>>>> Except that I haven't. >>>> >>>> yet. >>> >>> Some of the ones here, I drilled two and three years ago. The >>> condensation went away in a few days. Seem fine winter and summer. >>> Well, one tiny spider got inside one, from the outside. >>> >>> Seems to me like a vented 2-pane window is less prone to condensation >>> than a single-pane. Less heat conduction to drive condensation. >> >> If the moisture got in there because of a failed seal, you've just >> added to the "failure". Under the right (wrong) conditions, it *will* >> fog again. >> > > I agree, however if one is looking for a temporary (perhaps a couple of > years?) solution then this may get one by. > > Certainly a double glazed window with moisture trapped inside will have > a terrible R number! Not sure what "terrible" is, but it will still be *much* better than single pane glass. There is still the largely immobile vapor barrier. Windows pretty well suck as thermal insulation anyway, no matter how good they are. Pay someone $500 to take thermal images of your house and you will see the lion's share of heat loss is through the windows. That's why I shudder at houses with walls of glass. An uncle was in the heating and cooling business. He pointed out how impractical it was to pay lots of money for good insulation in walls and ceilings only to cut big holes in them to let the heat out! -- Rick C
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| From | Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 14:06 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <f6e50748-0931-44cb-9a3b-e1b881a84286@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #453256 |
Den torsdag den 23. marts 2017 kl. 20.28.39 UTC+1 skrev rickman: > On 3/23/2017 3:10 PM, John Robertson wrote: > > On 2017/03/23 10:15 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote: > >> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 21:14:09 -0700, John Larkin > >> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >> > >>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:46:12 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: > >>> > >>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 17:24:51 -0700, John Larkin > >>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:12:23 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:56:20 -0700, John Larkin > >>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 13:37:34 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:18:44 -0700, John Larkin > >>>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I have some double-pane windows that are getting moisture trapped > >>>>>>>>> inside. I've found that drilling a little vent hole fixes that. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> If the seal is broken (moisture between the panes), the windows > >>>>>>>> need > >>>>>>>> to be replaced. They can't be fixed. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Drilling a vent hole seems to work fine. It lets the moisture out. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> And back in. You'll always have a condensation problem. > >>>>> > >>>>> Except that I haven't. > >>>> > >>>> yet. > >>> > >>> Some of the ones here, I drilled two and three years ago. The > >>> condensation went away in a few days. Seem fine winter and summer. > >>> Well, one tiny spider got inside one, from the outside. > >>> > >>> Seems to me like a vented 2-pane window is less prone to condensation > >>> than a single-pane. Less heat conduction to drive condensation. > >> > >> If the moisture got in there because of a failed seal, you've just > >> added to the "failure". Under the right (wrong) conditions, it *will* > >> fog again. > >> > > > > I agree, however if one is looking for a temporary (perhaps a couple of > > years?) solution then this may get one by. > > > > Certainly a double glazed window with moisture trapped inside will have > > a terrible R number! > > Not sure what "terrible" is, but it will still be *much* better than > single pane glass. There is still the largely immobile vapor barrier. > Windows pretty well suck as thermal insulation anyway, no matter how > good they are. Pay someone $500 to take thermal images of your house > and you will see the lion's share of heat loss is through the windows. > That's why I shudder at houses with walls of glass. > > An uncle was in the heating and cooling business. He pointed out how > impractical it was to pay lots of money for good insulation in walls and > ceilings only to cut big holes in them to let the heat out! > I'd expect that to be much bigger issue for cooling than heating modern windows are less than 1W/m2K. even when it is really cold that doesn't add up to much compared to ~1kW per square meter sun mid day in the summer -Lasse
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 20:48 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ob1q7a$c0m$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #453263 |
On 3/23/2017 5:06 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > Den torsdag den 23. marts 2017 kl. 20.28.39 UTC+1 skrev rickman: >> On 3/23/2017 3:10 PM, John Robertson wrote: >>> On 2017/03/23 10:15 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 21:14:09 -0700, John Larkin >>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:46:12 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 17:24:51 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:12:23 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:56:20 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 13:37:34 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:18:44 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have some double-pane windows that are getting moisture trapped >>>>>>>>>>> inside. I've found that drilling a little vent hole fixes that. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If the seal is broken (moisture between the panes), the windows >>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>> to be replaced. They can't be fixed. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Drilling a vent hole seems to work fine. It lets the moisture out. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And back in. You'll always have a condensation problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Except that I haven't. >>>>>> >>>>>> yet. >>>>> >>>>> Some of the ones here, I drilled two and three years ago. The >>>>> condensation went away in a few days. Seem fine winter and summer. >>>>> Well, one tiny spider got inside one, from the outside. >>>>> >>>>> Seems to me like a vented 2-pane window is less prone to condensation >>>>> than a single-pane. Less heat conduction to drive condensation. >>>> >>>> If the moisture got in there because of a failed seal, you've just >>>> added to the "failure". Under the right (wrong) conditions, it *will* >>>> fog again. >>>> >>> >>> I agree, however if one is looking for a temporary (perhaps a couple of >>> years?) solution then this may get one by. >>> >>> Certainly a double glazed window with moisture trapped inside will have >>> a terrible R number! >> >> Not sure what "terrible" is, but it will still be *much* better than >> single pane glass. There is still the largely immobile vapor barrier. >> Windows pretty well suck as thermal insulation anyway, no matter how >> good they are. Pay someone $500 to take thermal images of your house >> and you will see the lion's share of heat loss is through the windows. >> That's why I shudder at houses with walls of glass. >> >> An uncle was in the heating and cooling business. He pointed out how >> impractical it was to pay lots of money for good insulation in walls and >> ceilings only to cut big holes in them to let the heat out! >> > > I'd expect that to be much bigger issue for cooling than heating > modern windows are less than 1W/m2K. even when it is really cold > that doesn't add up to much compared to ~1kW per square meter > sun mid day in the summer I'm not sure how the two numbers are related. The issue is 1 W/m^2 vs X W/m^2 for insulated walls! Comparing the numbers you do makes an assumption that the sun is shining in the window and being converted to heat. There are many simple ways to improve that issue including having trees outside or white lined drapes inside. Regardless of how cooling effects are mitigated or not, I think it is still a very significant issue for heating. -- Rick C
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| From | Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 18:05 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <38331571-5eff-462e-bca3-6ad343214b8d@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #453305 |
Den fredag den 24. marts 2017 kl. 01.48.28 UTC+1 skrev rickman: > On 3/23/2017 5:06 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > > Den torsdag den 23. marts 2017 kl. 20.28.39 UTC+1 skrev rickman: > >> On 3/23/2017 3:10 PM, John Robertson wrote: > >>> On 2017/03/23 10:15 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote: > >>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 21:14:09 -0700, John Larkin > >>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:46:12 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 17:24:51 -0700, John Larkin > >>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:12:23 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:56:20 -0700, John Larkin > >>>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 13:37:34 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:18:44 -0700, John Larkin > >>>>>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I have some double-pane windows that are getting moisture trapped > >>>>>>>>>>> inside. I've found that drilling a little vent hole fixes that. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> If the seal is broken (moisture between the panes), the windows > >>>>>>>>>> need > >>>>>>>>>> to be replaced. They can't be fixed. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Drilling a vent hole seems to work fine. It lets the moisture out. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> And back in. You'll always have a condensation problem. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Except that I haven't. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> yet. > >>>>> > >>>>> Some of the ones here, I drilled two and three years ago. The > >>>>> condensation went away in a few days. Seem fine winter and summer. > >>>>> Well, one tiny spider got inside one, from the outside. > >>>>> > >>>>> Seems to me like a vented 2-pane window is less prone to condensation > >>>>> than a single-pane. Less heat conduction to drive condensation. > >>>> > >>>> If the moisture got in there because of a failed seal, you've just > >>>> added to the "failure". Under the right (wrong) conditions, it *will* > >>>> fog again. > >>>> > >>> > >>> I agree, however if one is looking for a temporary (perhaps a couple of > >>> years?) solution then this may get one by. > >>> > >>> Certainly a double glazed window with moisture trapped inside will have > >>> a terrible R number! > >> > >> Not sure what "terrible" is, but it will still be *much* better than > >> single pane glass. There is still the largely immobile vapor barrier. > >> Windows pretty well suck as thermal insulation anyway, no matter how > >> good they are. Pay someone $500 to take thermal images of your house > >> and you will see the lion's share of heat loss is through the windows. > >> That's why I shudder at houses with walls of glass. > >> > >> An uncle was in the heating and cooling business. He pointed out how > >> impractical it was to pay lots of money for good insulation in walls and > >> ceilings only to cut big holes in them to let the heat out! > >> > > > > I'd expect that to be much bigger issue for cooling than heating > > modern windows are less than 1W/m2K. even when it is really cold > > that doesn't add up to much compared to ~1kW per square meter > > sun mid day in the summer > > I'm not sure how the two numbers are related. The issue is 1 W/m^2 vs X > W/m^2 for insulated walls! Comparing the numbers you do makes an > assumption that the sun is shining in the window and being converted to > heat. There are many simple ways to improve that issue including having > trees outside or white lined drapes inside. Regardless of how cooling > effects are mitigated or not, I think it is still a very significant > issue for heating. compare 1W/m2k to this: https://j18blog.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/typical-u-values1.jpg
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| From | krw@notreal.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 20:31 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <12q8dc1kjf5lgnsirhvhnh1ao7363qeldv@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #453256 |
On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 15:28:33 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: >On 3/23/2017 3:10 PM, John Robertson wrote: >> On 2017/03/23 10:15 AM, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 21:14:09 -0700, John Larkin >>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:46:12 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 17:24:51 -0700, John Larkin >>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:12:23 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:56:20 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 13:37:34 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:18:44 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have some double-pane windows that are getting moisture trapped >>>>>>>>>> inside. I've found that drilling a little vent hole fixes that. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If the seal is broken (moisture between the panes), the windows >>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>> to be replaced. They can't be fixed. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Drilling a vent hole seems to work fine. It lets the moisture out. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And back in. You'll always have a condensation problem. >>>>>> >>>>>> Except that I haven't. >>>>> >>>>> yet. >>>> >>>> Some of the ones here, I drilled two and three years ago. The >>>> condensation went away in a few days. Seem fine winter and summer. >>>> Well, one tiny spider got inside one, from the outside. >>>> >>>> Seems to me like a vented 2-pane window is less prone to condensation >>>> than a single-pane. Less heat conduction to drive condensation. >>> >>> If the moisture got in there because of a failed seal, you've just >>> added to the "failure". Under the right (wrong) conditions, it *will* >>> fog again. >>> >> >> I agree, however if one is looking for a temporary (perhaps a couple of >> years?) solution then this may get one by. >> >> Certainly a double glazed window with moisture trapped inside will have >> a terrible R number! > >Not sure what "terrible" is, but it will still be *much* better than >single pane glass. There is still the largely immobile vapor barrier. >Windows pretty well suck as thermal insulation anyway, no matter how >good they are. Making them even worse isn't a good plan. I thought you were a greenie? >Pay someone $500 to take thermal images of your house >and you will see the lion's share of heat loss is through the windows. >That's why I shudder at houses with walls of glass. > >An uncle was in the heating and cooling business. He pointed out how >impractical it was to pay lots of money for good insulation in walls and >ceilings only to cut big holes in them to let the heat out! You can live in a cave but normal people don't like it. We had an apartment for nine months a few years back that was like your dream house. It *really* sucked not having decent natural light.
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 15:25 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ob1794$amb$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #453187 |
On 3/23/2017 12:14 AM, John Larkin wrote: > On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:46:12 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: > >> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 17:24:51 -0700, John Larkin >> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:12:23 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:56:20 -0700, John Larkin >>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 13:37:34 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:18:44 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have some double-pane windows that are getting moisture trapped >>>>>>> inside. I've found that drilling a little vent hole fixes that. >>>>>> >>>>>> If the seal is broken (moisture between the panes), the windows need >>>>>> to be replaced. They can't be fixed. >>>>> >>>>> Drilling a vent hole seems to work fine. It lets the moisture out. >>>> >>>> And back in. You'll always have a condensation problem. >>> >>> Except that I haven't. >> >> yet. > > Some of the ones here, I drilled two and three years ago. The > condensation went away in a few days. Seem fine winter and summer. There is a failure of logic here somewhere. Windows from factory are filled with dry air or a heavy gas like Argon. The seal is nearly 100%. No condensation is observed. A small leak develops and at some point, condensation is observed. A slightly larger leak is installed and the condensation goes away, permanently? I find it hard to believe that condensation can't happen still. It's not like the very slow leak would concentrate the water vapor inside the panes. It simply acts as a low pass filter giving a DC value of the signal with the AC component largely removed. The hole in the glass changes the time constant allowing the water vapor to leave, but only very slowly. When temperature changes more rapidly condensation will continue to form. > Seems to me like a vented 2-pane window is less prone to condensation > than a single-pane. Less heat conduction to drive condensation. There was enough heat conduction to condense inside the window before the hole was drilled. Drilling the hole will only impact the RC time constant of the water vapor levels inside the window. The heat conduction is not related to your issue. The inside of the outer pane will be colder than the inside of a single pane glass. So if there is water vapor inside the window it will condense. -- Rick C
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| From | George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-23 17:37 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <18fa623f-cd42-4114-a287-1d11ed34a078@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #453252 |
On Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 3:25:12 PM UTC-4, rickman wrote: > On 3/23/2017 12:14 AM, John Larkin wrote: > > On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:46:12 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: > > > >> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 17:24:51 -0700, John Larkin > >> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >> > >>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:12:23 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: > >>> > >>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:56:20 -0700, John Larkin > >>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 13:37:34 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:18:44 -0700, John Larkin > >>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I have some double-pane windows that are getting moisture trapped > >>>>>>> inside. I've found that drilling a little vent hole fixes that. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If the seal is broken (moisture between the panes), the windows need > >>>>>> to be replaced. They can't be fixed. > >>>>> > >>>>> Drilling a vent hole seems to work fine. It lets the moisture out. > >>>> > >>>> And back in. You'll always have a condensation problem. > >>> > >>> Except that I haven't. > >> > >> yet. > > > > Some of the ones here, I drilled two and three years ago. The > > condensation went away in a few days. Seem fine winter and summer. > > There is a failure of logic here somewhere. Windows from factory are > filled with dry air or a heavy gas like Argon. The seal is nearly 100%. > No condensation is observed. A small leak develops and at some point, > condensation is observed. A slightly larger leak is installed and the > condensation goes away, permanently? I find it hard to believe that > condensation can't happen still. It's not like the very slow leak would > concentrate the water vapor inside the panes. It simply acts as a low > pass filter giving a DC value of the signal with the AC component > largely removed. The hole in the glass changes the time constant > allowing the water vapor to leave, but only very slowly. When > temperature changes more rapidly condensation will continue to form. Or a failure of imagination, if the small leak is from the hot moisture laden side, then a bigger hole could help, as long as the outside doesn't become wetter... which it does when it rains and such.. it 's a fun question. George H. > > > > Seems to me like a vented 2-pane window is less prone to condensation > > than a single-pane. Less heat conduction to drive condensation. > > There was enough heat conduction to condense inside the window before > the hole was drilled. Drilling the hole will only impact the RC time > constant of the water vapor levels inside the window. > > The heat conduction is not related to your issue. The inside of the > outer pane will be colder than the inside of a single pane glass. So if > there is water vapor inside the window it will condense. > > -- > > Rick C
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-22 13:44 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <oaud0g$83b$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #453060 |
On 3/22/2017 1:18 PM, John Larkin wrote: > > > I have some double-pane windows that are getting moisture trapped > inside. I've found that drilling a little vent hole fixes that. > > I got some Amazon chinese diamond core drills. What's the best way to > use these? Slow with a drill or fast with a Dremel? Lubricate with oil > or water? The vent hole may help at times, but there is a reason why they sealed the windows to begin with. The moist air will still condense at times and the increased moisture reduces the insulation properties. I guess it's better than buying new windows, eh? -- Rick C
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| From | Kevin Glover <kevinfglover@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-22 11:22 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <psf5dchqnmhgunpg5jdj80ln7o6vb0p69b@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #453060 |
On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:18:44 -0700, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > > >I have some double-pane windows that are getting moisture trapped >inside. I've found that drilling a little vent hole fixes that. > >I got some Amazon chinese diamond core drills. What's the best way to >use these? Slow with a drill or fast with a Dremel? Lubricate with oil >or water? I don't know about drilling but when I was doing stained glass work, the grinder I used had diamond heads and was high speed and used water as lubricant/coolant. The biggest threat to the glass is heat. If it has a low temperature coefficent (as most window glass has), heat could cause the glass to crack. So I would say high speed Dremel, water coolant and a steady hand. Cheers
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| From | John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-22 11:44 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <tridnYLsXdCdW0_FnZ2dnUU7-YHNnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #453060 |
On 2017/03/22 10:18 AM, John Larkin wrote: > > > I have some double-pane windows that are getting moisture trapped > inside. I've found that drilling a little vent hole fixes that. > > I got some Amazon chinese diamond core drills. What's the best way to > use these? Slow with a drill or fast with a Dremel? Lubricate with oil > or water? > > Why not take the double glass envelope out (if possible - on a hot dry day) and drill through the seal? You could then gently pressurize the glass (basketball filler tube through the seal perhaps?) and then, using soapy water around the seals, find the leak(s) and seal them up under a slight vacuum to suck in a silicon sealant. Slight positive pressure and then seal up the remaining hole. Or drill two holes (top and bottom - process pointed out in other responses) and vacuum out the moisture on a hot day, then seal the holes with drops of glue. I am curious about the results as we have a couple of windows whose seals have failed and was planning on replacing them... John
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-22 15:07 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <oauhru$s2v$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #453090 |
On 3/22/2017 2:44 PM, John Robertson wrote: > On 2017/03/22 10:18 AM, John Larkin wrote: >> >> >> I have some double-pane windows that are getting moisture trapped >> inside. I've found that drilling a little vent hole fixes that. >> >> I got some Amazon chinese diamond core drills. What's the best way to >> use these? Slow with a drill or fast with a Dremel? Lubricate with oil >> or water? >> >> > > Why not take the double glass envelope out (if possible - on a hot dry > day) and drill through the seal? You could then gently pressurize the > glass (basketball filler tube through the seal perhaps?) and then, using > soapy water around the seals, find the leak(s) and seal them up under a > slight vacuum to suck in a silicon sealant. Slight positive pressure and > then seal up the remaining hole. > > Or drill two holes (top and bottom - process pointed out in other > responses) and vacuum out the moisture on a hot day, then seal the holes > with drops of glue. > > I am curious about the results as we have a couple of windows whose > seals have failed and was planning on replacing them... Unless you fill the window with dry air of some sort you will still get condensation on cool days. If you've ever lived in a house with single pane glass you remember even on the days when it seems dry as a bone inside but freezing outside frost will form on the glass. Condensation will continue to form inside a window on cool days unless you get the dewpoint of the air inside the glass below the necessary temp. It's not like letting your towels dry out. -- Rick C
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| From | Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-22 12:19 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <8bb36d08-5d79-4982-a006-32751b5017d7@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #453093 |
Den onsdag den 22. marts 2017 kl. 20.07.28 UTC+1 skrev rickman: > On 3/22/2017 2:44 PM, John Robertson wrote: > > On 2017/03/22 10:18 AM, John Larkin wrote: > >> > >> > >> I have some double-pane windows that are getting moisture trapped > >> inside. I've found that drilling a little vent hole fixes that. > >> > >> I got some Amazon chinese diamond core drills. What's the best way to > >> use these? Slow with a drill or fast with a Dremel? Lubricate with oil > >> or water? > >> > >> > > > > Why not take the double glass envelope out (if possible - on a hot dry > > day) and drill through the seal? You could then gently pressurize the > > glass (basketball filler tube through the seal perhaps?) and then, using > > soapy water around the seals, find the leak(s) and seal them up under a > > slight vacuum to suck in a silicon sealant. Slight positive pressure and > > then seal up the remaining hole. > > > > Or drill two holes (top and bottom - process pointed out in other > > responses) and vacuum out the moisture on a hot day, then seal the holes > > with drops of glue. > > > > I am curious about the results as we have a couple of windows whose > > seals have failed and was planning on replacing them... > > Unless you fill the window with dry air of some sort you will still get > condensation on cool days. If you've ever lived in a house with single > pane glass you remember even on the days when it seems dry as a bone > inside but freezing outside frost will form on the glass. Condensation > will continue to form inside a window on cool days unless you get the > dewpoint of the air inside the glass below the necessary temp. It's not > like letting your towels dry out. > drill two holes, one the bottom one at the top if you put the bottom one outside and top one inside, it might suck in cold dry air at the bottom and when it heats up blow out the top -Lasse
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-22 15:51 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <oaukep$593$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #453097 |
On 3/22/2017 3:19 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > Den onsdag den 22. marts 2017 kl. 20.07.28 UTC+1 skrev rickman: >> On 3/22/2017 2:44 PM, John Robertson wrote: >>> On 2017/03/22 10:18 AM, John Larkin wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> I have some double-pane windows that are getting moisture trapped >>>> inside. I've found that drilling a little vent hole fixes that. >>>> >>>> I got some Amazon chinese diamond core drills. What's the best way to >>>> use these? Slow with a drill or fast with a Dremel? Lubricate with oil >>>> or water? >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Why not take the double glass envelope out (if possible - on a hot dry >>> day) and drill through the seal? You could then gently pressurize the >>> glass (basketball filler tube through the seal perhaps?) and then, using >>> soapy water around the seals, find the leak(s) and seal them up under a >>> slight vacuum to suck in a silicon sealant. Slight positive pressure and >>> then seal up the remaining hole. >>> >>> Or drill two holes (top and bottom - process pointed out in other >>> responses) and vacuum out the moisture on a hot day, then seal the holes >>> with drops of glue. >>> >>> I am curious about the results as we have a couple of windows whose >>> seals have failed and was planning on replacing them... >> >> Unless you fill the window with dry air of some sort you will still get >> condensation on cool days. If you've ever lived in a house with single >> pane glass you remember even on the days when it seems dry as a bone >> inside but freezing outside frost will form on the glass. Condensation >> will continue to form inside a window on cool days unless you get the >> dewpoint of the air inside the glass below the necessary temp. It's not >> like letting your towels dry out. >> > > drill two holes, one the bottom one at the top > > if you put the bottom one outside and top one inside, it might suck in cold dry air at the bottom and when it heats up blow out the top Why would it preferentially move air through one hole and not the other??? -- Rick C
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| From | Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-22 13:58 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <b5fd886b-b89e-4fad-b010-c51db028cb0e@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #453111 |
Den onsdag den 22. marts 2017 kl. 20.51.40 UTC+1 skrev rickman: > On 3/22/2017 3:19 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > > Den onsdag den 22. marts 2017 kl. 20.07.28 UTC+1 skrev rickman: > >> On 3/22/2017 2:44 PM, John Robertson wrote: > >>> On 2017/03/22 10:18 AM, John Larkin wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I have some double-pane windows that are getting moisture trapped > >>>> inside. I've found that drilling a little vent hole fixes that. > >>>> > >>>> I got some Amazon chinese diamond core drills. What's the best way to > >>>> use these? Slow with a drill or fast with a Dremel? Lubricate with oil > >>>> or water? > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> Why not take the double glass envelope out (if possible - on a hot dry > >>> day) and drill through the seal? You could then gently pressurize the > >>> glass (basketball filler tube through the seal perhaps?) and then, using > >>> soapy water around the seals, find the leak(s) and seal them up under a > >>> slight vacuum to suck in a silicon sealant. Slight positive pressure and > >>> then seal up the remaining hole. > >>> > >>> Or drill two holes (top and bottom - process pointed out in other > >>> responses) and vacuum out the moisture on a hot day, then seal the holes > >>> with drops of glue. > >>> > >>> I am curious about the results as we have a couple of windows whose > >>> seals have failed and was planning on replacing them... > >> > >> Unless you fill the window with dry air of some sort you will still get > >> condensation on cool days. If you've ever lived in a house with single > >> pane glass you remember even on the days when it seems dry as a bone > >> inside but freezing outside frost will form on the glass. Condensation > >> will continue to form inside a window on cool days unless you get the > >> dewpoint of the air inside the glass below the necessary temp. It's not > >> like letting your towels dry out. > >> > > > > drill two holes, one the bottom one at the top > > > > if you put the bottom one outside and top one inside, it might suck in cold dry air at the bottom and when it heats up blow out the top > > Why would it preferentially move air through one hole and not the other??? > as the air between the pane heats up it rises to the top
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-22 17:05 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <oauopu$n6i$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #453123 |
On 3/22/2017 4:58 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > Den onsdag den 22. marts 2017 kl. 20.51.40 UTC+1 skrev rickman: >> On 3/22/2017 3:19 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: >>> Den onsdag den 22. marts 2017 kl. 20.07.28 UTC+1 skrev rickman: >>>> On 3/22/2017 2:44 PM, John Robertson wrote: >>>>> On 2017/03/22 10:18 AM, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I have some double-pane windows that are getting moisture trapped >>>>>> inside. I've found that drilling a little vent hole fixes that. >>>>>> >>>>>> I got some Amazon chinese diamond core drills. What's the best way to >>>>>> use these? Slow with a drill or fast with a Dremel? Lubricate with oil >>>>>> or water? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Why not take the double glass envelope out (if possible - on a hot dry >>>>> day) and drill through the seal? You could then gently pressurize the >>>>> glass (basketball filler tube through the seal perhaps?) and then, using >>>>> soapy water around the seals, find the leak(s) and seal them up under a >>>>> slight vacuum to suck in a silicon sealant. Slight positive pressure and >>>>> then seal up the remaining hole. >>>>> >>>>> Or drill two holes (top and bottom - process pointed out in other >>>>> responses) and vacuum out the moisture on a hot day, then seal the holes >>>>> with drops of glue. >>>>> >>>>> I am curious about the results as we have a couple of windows whose >>>>> seals have failed and was planning on replacing them... >>>> >>>> Unless you fill the window with dry air of some sort you will still get >>>> condensation on cool days. If you've ever lived in a house with single >>>> pane glass you remember even on the days when it seems dry as a bone >>>> inside but freezing outside frost will form on the glass. Condensation >>>> will continue to form inside a window on cool days unless you get the >>>> dewpoint of the air inside the glass below the necessary temp. It's not >>>> like letting your towels dry out. >>>> >>> >>> drill two holes, one the bottom one at the top >>> >>> if you put the bottom one outside and top one inside, it might suck in cold dry air at the bottom and when it heats up blow out the top >> >> Why would it preferentially move air through one hole and not the other??? >> > > as the air between the pane heats up it rises to the top And why would that push air out the top as opposed to out the bottom? Any thermal air currents will be *very* slow and the interior will have equal pressure throughout. -- Rick C
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| From | Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-22 16:26 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ppadncYiOrlPdk_FnZ2dnUU7-Y2dnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #453125 |
rickman wrote: > And why would that push air out the top as opposed to out the bottom? > Any thermal air currents will be *very* slow and the interior will have > equal pressure throughout. > And, any time you run the clothes dryer or bathroom ventilators, it will suck air in through any holes or leaks in the house. That will certainly overcome the slight pressure differential of warming air. I'd hope it wouldn't turn the windows into pipe organ-like sound generators. Jon
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-22 18:00 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <oaus0q$3g8$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #453133 |
On 3/22/2017 5:26 PM, Jon Elson wrote: > rickman wrote: > > >> And why would that push air out the top as opposed to out the bottom? >> Any thermal air currents will be *very* slow and the interior will have >> equal pressure throughout. >> > And, any time you run the clothes dryer or bathroom ventilators, it will > suck air in through any holes or leaks in the house. That will certainly > overcome the slight pressure differential of warming air. I'd hope it > wouldn't turn the windows into pipe organ-like sound generators. Now I see what Lasse was getting at. There could be a chimney effect. I'm not sure how strong it would be since the air inside the window is likely between the temperature of the outside and the inside. The air inside would be warmer tending to let the air in the window fall out inside the house. The air outside is cooler tending to let the air from the window rise out through the hole. So it would be drawing air from both holes. The bottom line is the holes would be small limiting any air flow to minuscule amounts. So with any quick temperature changes like we had here last night, the warm, moist inside air could easily cause condensation on the inside of the window as it cools, just like with the even smaller air leak that caused the problem in the first place. -- Rick C
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