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Groups > sci.electronics.design > #445458 > unrolled thread
| Started by | bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-01-31 08:16 -0800 |
| Last post | 2017-02-06 03:24 -0800 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 60 — 16 participants |
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H-1B Reform bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-01-31 08:16 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-01-31 09:15 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Martin Riddle <martin_rid@verizon.net> - 2017-01-31 20:11 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2017-01-31 22:49 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform dakupoto@gmail.com - 2017-02-04 22:52 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-05 07:23 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-05 18:02 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 07:27 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-06 20:26 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-07 07:49 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-07 12:18 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-07 10:02 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-07 20:21 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 08:08 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 12:28 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 10:05 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 13:13 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 12:16 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 20:13 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 07:19 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-08 13:42 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 12:06 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 03:18 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-06 03:17 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 07:51 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform makolber@yahoo.com - 2017-02-06 10:08 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 10:11 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-06 12:53 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 13:22 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 20:36 +0000
Re: H-1B Reform Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-02-08 17:20 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 20:14 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 19:36 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-07 08:02 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-07 17:01 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 20:33 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 08:18 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 17:02 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-08 14:36 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 21:12 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 07:42 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-02-09 11:02 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 10:36 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-09 14:34 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 12:27 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-09 15:33 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-09 12:40 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-09 17:58 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 17:10 +0000
Re: H-1B Reform Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-06 09:24 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 18:05 +0000
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 10:18 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 20:41 +0000
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 13:31 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-06 22:05 +0000
Re: H-1B Reform Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-02-06 14:56 -0800
Re: H-1B Reform mixed nuts <melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> - 2017-02-05 10:32 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2017-02-05 19:15 +0100
Re: H-1B Reform mixed nuts <melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> - 2017-02-05 23:06 -0500
Re: H-1B Reform bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-06 03:24 -0800
Page 3 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3]
| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-09 07:42 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <eg3gv7F14qlU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #446950 |
On 2017-02-08 18:12, rickman wrote: > On 2/8/2017 5:36 PM, Joerg wrote: >> On 2017-02-08 14:02, rickman wrote: >>> On 2/8/2017 11:18 AM, Joerg wrote: >>>> On 2017-02-07 17:33, rickman wrote: >>>>> On 2/7/2017 11:02 AM, Joerg wrote: >>>>>> On 2017-02-06 16:36, rickman wrote: >>>>>>> On 2/6/2017 10:51 AM, Joerg wrote: >> >> >> [...] >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> We need H1B and the law is already quite good as it is, always has >>>>>>>> been. >>>>>>>> The problem is a de-facto non-enforcement of the rules in this >>>>>>>> law. I >>>>>>>> have personally met people who were let go and then replaced by an >>>>>>>> H1B >>>>>>>> worker. This is wrong. So we need to get back to applying H1B the >>>>>>>> way it >>>>>>>> was always intended, obtaining talent which we truly cannot find in >>>>>>>> America or simply do not have enough of. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My cousin was one of those people. He literally trained his >>>>>>> replacement. But he wouldn't report them. In the end after six >>>>>>> months >>>>>>> or so they hired him back... then laid him off again later on. >>>>>>> Then he >>>>>>> came back as a contractor getting paid much more. You have to work >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> system to your benefit. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> He was lucky. Others weren't so lucky. Anyhow, with the new rules >>>>>> that >>>>>> will hopefully end soon. >>>>> >>>>> I don't recall the details, but when I dug into the H-1B thing the >>>>> vast >>>>> majority of visa holders worked for huge temp companies essentially >>>>> and >>>>> they were not doing high level engineering work. It was more like >>>>> IT or >>>>> similar level work. Ask a company to pay them $130k a year will >>>>> simply >>>>> kill the entire H-1B program. >>>>> >>>> >>>> It will not. H1B allows us to hire that specialist from overseas >>>> elsewhere that brings fresh ideas into a project. It allows us to hire >>>> the brightest minds to keep America at the top of high-tech. That is >>>> what H1B was designed for. >>> >>> Except that is not what it is being used for. The proposed changes will >>> eliminate abuse, but it does nothing to *encourage* proper use. >>> >> >> It's simple: A company needs a certain talent, tries their best >> domestically, can't find anyone. > > See, right there... that's the fallacy. Do you really think there is > any skill that can't be supplied in the US? Yes. I don't only think so, I know so. > ... What it means is they can't find the talent at a given wage. > Not true. Sometimes you need someone who is intimately familiar with the regulatory system and habits in a foreign country for which a product is to be geared _and_ is fluent in that language. Then the number of available engineers for this job in the US can be zero. Other times you can find a local engineer but only by prying him or her out of another company. Then that company will have a serious problem at their hands. They can outbid themselves like sports teams sometimes do but in the end there will still not be enough talent available. Think about it this way: How will you win a race in a sports car if only two of the four wheels are available and there is no time to build two more? By mounting the front wheels in the back. Or vice versa? Or maybe diagonally? > >> Then they go international, find >> someone, file for the visa and pay accordingly. This is proper use. >> >> Improper use is what happens nowadays. Companies hire scores of coders >> and others on the cheap, the whole program runs into the cap in a jiffy >> and when another company desperately needs someone in August they are >> screwed. Because the cap had been reached long ago. > > So it comes down to price... Company A was hiring H-1B workers on the > cheap. So there is no reason why there wouldn't be talent for company > B... unless they expect to pay that same substandard wage. > Which they will have to do in order to stay competitive. Else company B's products will have higher NRE and you know the consequences of that. > >> Therefore, the proposed changes setting a high minimum pay encourage >> proper use by curbing improper use. Most of all it will prevent >> companies from illegally displacing American workers. > > The high minimum wage means the program won't be used because at that > $120,000 an engineer will be found in the US... No. H1B is meant to get such an engineer if none or not enough can be found in the US. See above. And yes, then $130k or whatever the law says is not a problem. If it were then the need wouldn't truly be there. > ... unless it's in one of > the very few, very high priced regions like silicon valley. I wouldn't > move there no matter how much they pay. > I wouldn't either. > In this country, at this time, if you can't find a skill, then you > simply aren't offering the right incentives. > Now you are beginning to understand :-) > >>>>> I believe you are addressing a problem that isn't really very big. >>>>> >>>> >>>> It is big to all those people like your cousin because it messes with >>>> their making a living. >>> >>> My cousin was very happy. >>> >> >> He was lucky that he got back in. Most are not so lucky and have to join >> the ranks of the un- or underemployed. > > That is simply not what I have read. As I have said, an analysis I read > (which included names of companies in the H-1B program and their > numbers) showed most H-1B workers aren't really doing engineering. They > are doing much lower level jobs and being paid appropriately for them. > H1B was never meant to be a simple guest worker program. It should not be used as such and now that practice will likely stop. Which is a good thing. > >>>> H1B is a wonderful program and abolishing it like some short-sighted >>>> pundits are advocating would be flat wrong. It needs to simply be >>>> brought back to its original intent. All the protection measures are >>>> already in the law, always have been. We as a country simply need to >>>> adhere to them and that unfortunately means enforcement of rules. >>> >>> It is still bringing in workers where there is no shortage. >>> >> >> Not when the min wage is $130k/year. Because that is way more than the >> company has to pay for an American worker. An employer would be quite >> stupid paying unnecessarily high wages. > > Yes, that is the point. > So they will soon make a stronger effort to find American engineers or programmers for the jobs. That is the real point. > >>>>>>>>> I know when I have worked in companies producing products for a >>>>>>>>> competitive marketplace, there was *lots* of interaction between >>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> departments involved. It would have been very hard to produce a >>>>>>>>> product >>>>>>>>> other than what was intended by the marketing group. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Marketing-driven businesses can be a problem though. I have seen >>>>>>>> some. >>>>>>>> Mostly because marketing folks often think too short term and >>>>>>>> most of >>>>>>>> all in a reaction-mode. "Oh, we just saw the competition has an XYZ >>>>>>>> wombombulator function so we absolutely need that by this coming >>>>>>>> trade >>>>>>>> show". I am quite glad to not be exposed to this all that much >>>>>>>> anymore. >>>>>>>> My current clients operate in true visionary mode. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Marketing driven" is a term that means just what you want it to >>>>>>> mean. A >>>>>>> company needs marketing and if the engineering department fails to >>>>>>> negotiate the requirements and/or fails to meet those requirements, >>>>>>> then >>>>>>> where are they? Customers will buy what they want and if you don't >>>>>>> give >>>>>>> it to them, you won't be designing anything in the future. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> What I meant by that is what I saw a lot over my career: Sales and >>>>>> marketing folks are very much in an "instant gratification" mode, >>>>>> they >>>>>> do not think very long term. Engineers usually do. What this >>>>>> resulted in >>>>>> is that good engineering ideas withered because marketing demanded >>>>>> that >>>>>> 100% of the available manpower was spent on existing product design >>>>>> improvements. I know quite well how marketing folks think because I >>>>>> married my very first contact with a marketing department :-) >>>>> >>>>> I don't know what companies you have worked for, but "gratification" >>>>> comes from management. They make the rules and if they reward >>>>> marketing >>>>> for doing lousy work, that's not marketing's fault. We *all* >>>>> respond to >>>>> the stimulus and rewards we receive. Engineering as well. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Marketing is usually under the VP or Sales. Sales is traditionally >>>> driven by commissions. Hence ... >>> >>> No, marketing is *not* "under" sales in any company I've worked for. >>> Regardless, ultimate control over commissions and everything else in a >>> company is by management. They can create good, or create bad. >>> Obviously not every company has the issues you mention, so there must be >>> ways to solve the problem. >>> >> >> Most large companies I know are like that. They are marketing-driven >> which in essence results in a sales-driven company. The VP of Sales >> usually has the largest pull when it comes to deciding the direction of >> R&D. It is one of the reasons why I would not have remained an employee >> for very long. Because this can snuff out truly visionary developments. >> Those take a little longer and carry a higher risk. Most importantly for >> the sales force they do not generate instant commission income. Instant >> to a sales person usually means this year or even this coming quarter. > > Reality says otherwise. If a company is so poorly run that the > departments are working counter productively and yet they are highly > profitable, then that contradicts what you are saying. If they aren't > highly profitable and could be run better, competitors will do that and > eat their lunch. Eventually the poorly performing companies either > change or go away. > Reality is yet different. Many large companies have such a large sales footprint that it takes decades until your described scenario happens. Perfect example: The big three auto makers. Half a century ago they scoffed at Volkswagen, Toyota, and others. "Phhht, they don't even have a meaningful dealer network, forget it! And Americans don't want compact cars anyhow!". Yet foreign compnies made better compact cars. A few decades later they weren't laughing anymore, they were shaking in their boots and even had to be bailed out by our government. The effect is commonly called "resting on the laurels". > Companies do the things they do because it maximizes their profits. If > the scenario you describe results in high profits, then you are > complaining about nothing. You started by complaining about "instant > gratification" and now you are talking about a year. In the real world > it is not at all uncommon for development to take much more than a year. > That's what I am saying. And this is difficult to achieve in a marketing-driven organization. They do not want to wait that long. > Look around, there are lots of products that took much more than a year > to develop. How long did the iPhone take to go from concept to product. > How about the chip sized atomic clock? The list goes on. > iPhone is not a new product. It is an evolved product. So is the atomic clock chip which is simply a glorified 60kHz receiver canned into silicon. A truly new product is, for example, a medical device that has no equivalent and where people were so far dying because of that lack. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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| From | Neon John <no@never.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-09 11:02 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <k04p9c93jfpjpge291lg9jf5ud4crk4r4g@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #447020 |
On Thu, 09 Feb 2017 07:42:56 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote: >Not true. Sometimes you need someone who is intimately familiar with the >regulatory system and habits in a foreign country for which a product is >to be geared _and_ is fluent in that language. Then the number of >available engineers for this job in the US can be zero. Other times you >can find a local engineer but only by prying him or her out of another >company. Then that company will have a serious problem at their hands. >They can outbid themselves like sports teams sometimes do but in the end >there will still not be enough talent available. I'm sure that happens a couple hundred times a year and in many cases this specialist doesn't need to be in the US. I can't speak a word of Chinese but we buy several components from China included custom manufactured parts. I did the simply hired an agent. This guy is an American of Chinese descent who moved to China to exploit his combination of language and engineering skills. He's not inexpensive but I only use him when I need him and he's very good. Pretty any strawman you can erect, someone can find a solution to without allowing companies to screw over us Americians, especially us older ones. >>> Therefore, the proposed changes setting a high minimum pay encourage >>> proper use by curbing improper use. Most of all it will prevent >>> companies from illegally displacing American workers. >> >> The high minimum wage means the program won't be used because at that >> $120,000 an engineer will be found in the US... Bingo! >iPhone is not a new product. It is an evolved product. So is the atomic >clock chip which is simply a glorified 60kHz receiver canned into >silicon. No, Jorg, the Symetricon chip scale atomic clock is NOT a radio receiver. It is a true atomic clock. If you'd like to talk to some of the guys who developed it, I suggest you join the time-nuts mailing list. John DeArmond http://www.neon-john.com http://www.tnduction.com Tellico Plains, Occupied TN See website for email address
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| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-09 10:36 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <eg3r48F3agnU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #447022 |
On 2017-02-09 08:02, Neon John wrote: > On Thu, 09 Feb 2017 07:42:56 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > wrote: > > >> Not true. Sometimes you need someone who is intimately familiar with the >> regulatory system and habits in a foreign country for which a product is >> to be geared _and_ is fluent in that language. Then the number of >> available engineers for this job in the US can be zero. Other times you >> can find a local engineer but only by prying him or her out of another >> company. Then that company will have a serious problem at their hands. >> They can outbid themselves like sports teams sometimes do but in the end >> there will still not be enough talent available. > > I'm sure that happens a couple hundred times a year and in many cases > this specialist doesn't need to be in the US. > > I can't speak a word of Chinese but we buy several components from > China included custom manufactured parts. I did the simply hired an > agent. This guy is an American of Chinese descent who moved to China > to exploit his combination of language and engineering skills. He's > not inexpensive but I only use him when I need him and he's very good. > > Pretty any strawman you can erect, someone can find a solution to > without allowing companies to screw over us Americians, especially us > older ones. > That is usually the best way of doing it. However, when you need to design something while constantly being out there in the clinics that doesn't work or else the guy might as well live in an airliner. These are not strawmen. I have personally sought and hired people from overseas because there simply were not enough Americans available. We paid beaucoup bucks plus lots of moving expenses and whatnot. A high minimum pay would not have made a difference for us whatsoever. Just as it should be. >>>> Therefore, the proposed changes setting a high minimum pay encourage >>>> proper use by curbing improper use. Most of all it will prevent >>>> companies from illegally displacing American workers. >>> >>> The high minimum wage means the program won't be used because at that >>> $120,000 an engineer will be found in the US... > > Bingo! > > >> iPhone is not a new product. It is an evolved product. So is the atomic >> clock chip which is simply a glorified 60kHz receiver canned into >> silicon. > > No, Jorg, the Symetricon chip scale atomic clock is NOT a radio > receiver. It is a true atomic clock. If you'd like to talk to some > of the guys who developed it, I suggest you join the time-nuts mailing > list. That is not really a mass product where a large company can rake in big bucks for years to come. However, such projects can also require hiring an overseas specialist. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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| From | Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-09 14:34 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <o7ig3k$fdg$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #447022 |
On 02/09/2017 11:02 AM, Neon John wrote: > On Thu, 09 Feb 2017 07:42:56 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > wrote: > > >> Not true. Sometimes you need someone who is intimately familiar with the >> regulatory system and habits in a foreign country for which a product is >> to be geared _and_ is fluent in that language. Then the number of >> available engineers for this job in the US can be zero. Other times you >> can find a local engineer but only by prying him or her out of another >> company. Then that company will have a serious problem at their hands. >> They can outbid themselves like sports teams sometimes do but in the end >> there will still not be enough talent available. > > I'm sure that happens a couple hundred times a year and in many cases > this specialist doesn't need to be in the US. > > I can't speak a word of Chinese but we buy several components from > China included custom manufactured parts. I did the simply hired an > agent. This guy is an American of Chinese descent who moved to China > to exploit his combination of language and engineering skills. He's > not inexpensive but I only use him when I need him and he's very good. > > Pretty any strawman you can erect, someone can find a solution to > without allowing companies to screw over us Americians, especially us > older ones. > >>>> Therefore, the proposed changes setting a high minimum pay encourage >>>> proper use by curbing improper use. Most of all it will prevent >>>> companies from illegally displacing American workers. >>> >>> The high minimum wage means the program won't be used because at that >>> $120,000 an engineer will be found in the US... > > Bingo! I got an H-1 in September 1987. They weren't all going so fast then. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
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| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-09 12:27 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <eg41ktF4kvtU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #447053 |
On 2017-02-09 11:34, Phil Hobbs wrote: > On 02/09/2017 11:02 AM, Neon John wrote: >> On Thu, 09 Feb 2017 07:42:56 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >> wrote: >> >> >>> Not true. Sometimes you need someone who is intimately familiar with the >>> regulatory system and habits in a foreign country for which a product is >>> to be geared _and_ is fluent in that language. Then the number of >>> available engineers for this job in the US can be zero. Other times you >>> can find a local engineer but only by prying him or her out of another >>> company. Then that company will have a serious problem at their hands. >>> They can outbid themselves like sports teams sometimes do but in the end >>> there will still not be enough talent available. >> >> I'm sure that happens a couple hundred times a year and in many cases >> this specialist doesn't need to be in the US. >> >> I can't speak a word of Chinese but we buy several components from >> China included custom manufactured parts. I did the simply hired an >> agent. This guy is an American of Chinese descent who moved to China >> to exploit his combination of language and engineering skills. He's >> not inexpensive but I only use him when I need him and he's very good. >> >> Pretty any strawman you can erect, someone can find a solution to >> without allowing companies to screw over us Americians, especially us >> older ones. >> >>>>> Therefore, the proposed changes setting a high minimum pay encourage >>>>> proper use by curbing improper use. Most of all it will prevent >>>>> companies from illegally displacing American workers. >>>> >>>> The high minimum wage means the program won't be used because at that >>>> $120,000 an engineer will be found in the US... >> >> Bingo! > > I got an H-1 in September 1987. They weren't all going so fast then. > I am also quite sure that they paid you well above prevailing wage back then. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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| From | Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-09 15:33 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <TrKdnV5m4uVhTAHFnZ2dnUU7-T-dnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #447066 |
On 02/09/2017 03:27 PM, Joerg wrote: > On 2017-02-09 11:34, Phil Hobbs wrote: >> On 02/09/2017 11:02 AM, Neon John wrote: >>> On Thu, 09 Feb 2017 07:42:56 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Not true. Sometimes you need someone who is intimately familiar with >>>> the >>>> regulatory system and habits in a foreign country for which a >>>> product is >>>> to be geared _and_ is fluent in that language. Then the number of >>>> available engineers for this job in the US can be zero. Other times you >>>> can find a local engineer but only by prying him or her out of another >>>> company. Then that company will have a serious problem at their hands. >>>> They can outbid themselves like sports teams sometimes do but in the >>>> end >>>> there will still not be enough talent available. >>> >>> I'm sure that happens a couple hundred times a year and in many cases >>> this specialist doesn't need to be in the US. >>> >>> I can't speak a word of Chinese but we buy several components from >>> China included custom manufactured parts. I did the simply hired an >>> agent. This guy is an American of Chinese descent who moved to China >>> to exploit his combination of language and engineering skills. He's >>> not inexpensive but I only use him when I need him and he's very good. >>> >>> Pretty any strawman you can erect, someone can find a solution to >>> without allowing companies to screw over us Americians, especially us >>> older ones. >>> >>>>>> Therefore, the proposed changes setting a high minimum pay encourage >>>>>> proper use by curbing improper use. Most of all it will prevent >>>>>> companies from illegally displacing American workers. >>>>> >>>>> The high minimum wage means the program won't be used because at that >>>>> $120,000 an engineer will be found in the US... >>> >>> Bingo! >> >> I got an H-1 in September 1987. They weren't all going so fast then. >> > > I am also quite sure that they paid you well above prevailing wage back > then. > > My post-doc salary at IBM was about the same as Tektronix offered me as a permanent employee at the same time. Competitive but not stellar. I was a post-doc for 2 years, and it took nearly 5 years to get a green card after I got hired permanently, so I've had one since 1994. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
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| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-09 12:40 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <eg42d3F4qohU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #447067 |
On 2017-02-09 12:33, Phil Hobbs wrote: > On 02/09/2017 03:27 PM, Joerg wrote: >> On 2017-02-09 11:34, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>> On 02/09/2017 11:02 AM, Neon John wrote: >>>> On Thu, 09 Feb 2017 07:42:56 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Not true. Sometimes you need someone who is intimately familiar with >>>>> the >>>>> regulatory system and habits in a foreign country for which a >>>>> product is >>>>> to be geared _and_ is fluent in that language. Then the number of >>>>> available engineers for this job in the US can be zero. Other times >>>>> you >>>>> can find a local engineer but only by prying him or her out of another >>>>> company. Then that company will have a serious problem at their hands. >>>>> They can outbid themselves like sports teams sometimes do but in the >>>>> end >>>>> there will still not be enough talent available. >>>> >>>> I'm sure that happens a couple hundred times a year and in many cases >>>> this specialist doesn't need to be in the US. >>>> >>>> I can't speak a word of Chinese but we buy several components from >>>> China included custom manufactured parts. I did the simply hired an >>>> agent. This guy is an American of Chinese descent who moved to China >>>> to exploit his combination of language and engineering skills. He's >>>> not inexpensive but I only use him when I need him and he's very good. >>>> >>>> Pretty any strawman you can erect, someone can find a solution to >>>> without allowing companies to screw over us Americians, especially us >>>> older ones. >>>> >>>>>>> Therefore, the proposed changes setting a high minimum pay encourage >>>>>>> proper use by curbing improper use. Most of all it will prevent >>>>>>> companies from illegally displacing American workers. >>>>>> >>>>>> The high minimum wage means the program won't be used because at that >>>>>> $120,000 an engineer will be found in the US... >>>> >>>> Bingo! >>> >>> I got an H-1 in September 1987. They weren't all going so fast then. >>> >> >> I am also quite sure that they paid you well above prevailing wage back >> then. >> >> > My post-doc salary at IBM was about the same as Tektronix offered me as > a permanent employee at the same time. Competitive but not stellar. > > I was a post-doc for 2 years, and it took nearly 5 years to get a green > card after I got hired permanently, so I've had one since 1994. > That's the key word, competitive. They didn't use your status to create an indentured situation but paid you commensurately and not below what US-Americans would have made. Unfortunately H1B has deteriorated so badly that it is often used as a cheap guest worker program. That had to change and it seems it now finally will change. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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| From | bill.sloman@ieee.org |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-09 17:58 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <32521cf9-b04b-4cc7-964b-12f851820e73@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #447022 |
On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 3:02:57 AM UTC+11, Neon John wrote: > On Thu, 09 Feb 2017 07:42:56 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > wrote: > > > >Not true. Sometimes you need someone who is intimately familiar with the > >regulatory system and habits in a foreign country for which a product is > >to be geared _and_ is fluent in that language. Then the number of > >available engineers for this job in the US can be zero. Other times you > >can find a local engineer but only by prying him or her out of another > >company. Then that company will have a serious problem at their hands. > >They can outbid themselves like sports teams sometimes do but in the end > >there will still not be enough talent available. > > I'm sure that happens a couple hundred times a year and in many cases > this specialist doesn't need to be in the US. > > I can't speak a word of Chinese but we buy several components from > China included custom manufactured parts. I did the simply hired an > agent. This guy is an American of Chinese descent who moved to China > to exploit his combination of language and engineering skills. He's > not inexpensive but I only use him when I need him and he's very good. > > Pretty any strawman you can erect, someone can find a solution to > without allowing companies to screw over us Americians, especially us > older ones. > > >>> Therefore, the proposed changes setting a high minimum pay encourage > >>> proper use by curbing improper use. Most of all it will prevent > >>> companies from illegally displacing American workers. > >> > >> The high minimum wage means the program won't be used because at that > >> $120,000 an engineer will be found in the US... > > Bingo! > > > >iPhone is not a new product. It is an evolved product. So is the atomic > >clock chip which is simply a glorified 60kHz receiver canned into > >silicon. > > No, Jorg, the Symetricon chip scale atomic clock is NOT a radio > receiver. It is a true atomic clock. If you'd like to talk to some > of the guys who developed it, I suggest you join the time-nuts mailing > list. And it is rather expensive "chip". I got a price for it when it first came out. Not impossible for the right project, but not the sort of money Joerg is happy about spending -- Bill Sloman, Sydney Bill Sloman, Sydney
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| From | Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-06 17:10 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <r62mA.681971$c41.566169@fx40.am4> |
| In reply to | #446276 |
On 05/02/17 15:23, Joerg wrote: > Raising and most of all enforcing the required wage is the perfect way to fix > H1B and I've always said that. Finally we have an administration that > understand > it. H1B is meant to haul in talent where we truly can't find an engineer for, > not to obtain work results cheaper. I don't disagree with that, but companies have lawyers that are adept at obeying the letter of the law while flouting the spirit of it. And obvious technique would be to pay someone $150k and then "suggest" they lived in luxurious accommodation costing $100k. It would be shocking, /shocking/, if that accommodation was also owned by an affiliate company :(
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| From | Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-06 09:24 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <dab86c7b-819d-4454-ae17-43b99db7546b@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #446427 |
Den mandag den 6. februar 2017 kl. 18.10.51 UTC+1 skrev Tom Gardner: > On 05/02/17 15:23, Joerg wrote: > > Raising and most of all enforcing the required wage is the perfect way to fix > > H1B and I've always said that. Finally we have an administration that > > understand > > it. H1B is meant to haul in talent where we truly can't find an engineer for, > > not to obtain work results cheaper. > > I don't disagree with that, but companies have lawyers > that are adept at obeying the letter of the law while > flouting the spirit of it. > > And obvious technique would be to pay someone $150k > and then "suggest" they lived in luxurious accommodation > costing $100k. It would be shocking, /shocking/, if > that accommodation was also owned by an affiliate > company :( there has been several cases of something similar here, not with visas but with usually eastern European workers that on paper is being paid the union agreement rate but then charged an obscene rent for an apartment owned by the company
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| From | Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-06 18:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <FV2mA.699157$vP3.629458@fx45.am4> |
| In reply to | #446430 |
On 06/02/17 17:24, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > Den mandag den 6. februar 2017 kl. 18.10.51 UTC+1 skrev Tom Gardner: >> On 05/02/17 15:23, Joerg wrote: >>> Raising and most of all enforcing the required wage is the perfect way to fix >>> H1B and I've always said that. Finally we have an administration that >>> understand >>> it. H1B is meant to haul in talent where we truly can't find an engineer for, >>> not to obtain work results cheaper. >> >> I don't disagree with that, but companies have lawyers >> that are adept at obeying the letter of the law while >> flouting the spirit of it. >> >> And obvious technique would be to pay someone $150k >> and then "suggest" they lived in luxurious accommodation >> costing $100k. It would be shocking, /shocking/, if >> that accommodation was also owned by an affiliate >> company :( > > there has been several cases of something similar here, not > with visas but with usually eastern European workers that on > paper is being paid the union agreement rate but then charged > an obscene rent for an apartment owned by the company Why am I not surprised! In the late 19th century the UK introduced laws that prevented employers forcing employees to purchase everything in their shops.
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| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-06 10:18 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <efrsu8Fen77U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #446433 |
On 2017-02-06 10:05, Tom Gardner wrote: > On 06/02/17 17:24, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: >> Den mandag den 6. februar 2017 kl. 18.10.51 UTC+1 skrev Tom Gardner: >>> On 05/02/17 15:23, Joerg wrote: >>>> Raising and most of all enforcing the required wage is the perfect >>>> way to fix >>>> H1B and I've always said that. Finally we have an administration that >>>> understand >>>> it. H1B is meant to haul in talent where we truly can't find an >>>> engineer for, >>>> not to obtain work results cheaper. >>> >>> I don't disagree with that, but companies have lawyers >>> that are adept at obeying the letter of the law while >>> flouting the spirit of it. >>> >>> And obvious technique would be to pay someone $150k >>> and then "suggest" they lived in luxurious accommodation >>> costing $100k. It would be shocking, /shocking/, if >>> that accommodation was also owned by an affiliate >>> company :( >> >> there has been several cases of something similar here, not >> with visas but with usually eastern European workers that on >> paper is being paid the union agreement rate but then charged >> an obscene rent for an apartment owned by the company > > Why am I not surprised! > > In the late 19th century the UK introduced laws > that prevented employers forcing employees to > purchase everything in their shops. Easily detected. The H1B visa holder must file a tax return in the country where he or she works. Now a $150k will trigger a very hefty tax which, with all the social securtity taxes, local taxes and whatnot reaches lofty heights. Assume the tax bill comes to $60k. How is that person going to pay the tax bill if only $50k is actually paid out? Huge and unusual deductions or cooking an income tax statement is fraud which can be automatically fished out if the bureaucrats put their mind to it. Then there are spot checks and these can include what tax pros call a "root canal audit". This is where the tax inspectors look at actual bank statements and such. Afterwards some of the higher-ups in the company would probably be escorted out in handcuffs. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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| From | Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-06 20:41 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <9c5mA.570100$Zf5.416871@fx41.am4> |
| In reply to | #446438 |
On 06/02/17 18:18, Joerg wrote: > On 2017-02-06 10:05, Tom Gardner wrote: >> On 06/02/17 17:24, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: >>> Den mandag den 6. februar 2017 kl. 18.10.51 UTC+1 skrev Tom Gardner: >>>> On 05/02/17 15:23, Joerg wrote: >>>>> Raising and most of all enforcing the required wage is the perfect >>>>> way to fix >>>>> H1B and I've always said that. Finally we have an administration that >>>>> understand >>>>> it. H1B is meant to haul in talent where we truly can't find an >>>>> engineer for, >>>>> not to obtain work results cheaper. >>>> >>>> I don't disagree with that, but companies have lawyers >>>> that are adept at obeying the letter of the law while >>>> flouting the spirit of it. >>>> >>>> And obvious technique would be to pay someone $150k >>>> and then "suggest" they lived in luxurious accommodation >>>> costing $100k. It would be shocking, /shocking/, if >>>> that accommodation was also owned by an affiliate >>>> company :( >>> >>> there has been several cases of something similar here, not >>> with visas but with usually eastern European workers that on >>> paper is being paid the union agreement rate but then charged >>> an obscene rent for an apartment owned by the company >> >> Why am I not surprised! >> >> In the late 19th century the UK introduced laws >> that prevented employers forcing employees to >> purchase everything in their shops. > > > Easily detected. The H1B visa holder must file a tax return in the country where > he or she works. Now a $150k will trigger a very hefty tax which, with all the > social securtity taxes, local taxes and whatnot reaches lofty heights. Assume > the tax bill comes to $60k. How is that person going to pay the tax bill if only > $50k is actually paid out? Oh, come on. I simply magicked figures out of thin air with zero justification! Choose any other figures if you wish; the principle remains. > Huge and unusual deductions or cooking an income tax statement is fraud which > can be automatically fished out if the bureaucrats put their mind to it. What deductions are you referring to? Or does the IRS actually determine that you are paying too much /taxed/ income for rent? > Then there are spot checks and these can include what tax pros call a "root > canal audit". This is where the tax inspectors look at actual bank statements > and such. Afterwards some of the higher-ups in the company would probably be > escorted out in handcuffs. I don't think it is beyond the wit of accountants to figure that out. If the taxman is getting the "right" amount of tax, then do they /really/ care how citizens spend the rest?
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| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-06 13:31 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <efs88iFh208U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #446460 |
On 2017-02-06 12:41, Tom Gardner wrote: > On 06/02/17 18:18, Joerg wrote: >> On 2017-02-06 10:05, Tom Gardner wrote: >>> On 06/02/17 17:24, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: >>>> Den mandag den 6. februar 2017 kl. 18.10.51 UTC+1 skrev Tom Gardner: >>>>> On 05/02/17 15:23, Joerg wrote: >>>>>> Raising and most of all enforcing the required wage is the perfect >>>>>> way to fix >>>>>> H1B and I've always said that. Finally we have an administration that >>>>>> understand >>>>>> it. H1B is meant to haul in talent where we truly can't find an >>>>>> engineer for, >>>>>> not to obtain work results cheaper. >>>>> >>>>> I don't disagree with that, but companies have lawyers >>>>> that are adept at obeying the letter of the law while >>>>> flouting the spirit of it. >>>>> >>>>> And obvious technique would be to pay someone $150k >>>>> and then "suggest" they lived in luxurious accommodation >>>>> costing $100k. It would be shocking, /shocking/, if >>>>> that accommodation was also owned by an affiliate >>>>> company :( >>>> >>>> there has been several cases of something similar here, not >>>> with visas but with usually eastern European workers that on >>>> paper is being paid the union agreement rate but then charged >>>> an obscene rent for an apartment owned by the company >>> >>> Why am I not surprised! >>> >>> In the late 19th century the UK introduced laws >>> that prevented employers forcing employees to >>> purchase everything in their shops. >> >> >> Easily detected. The H1B visa holder must file a tax return in the >> country where >> he or she works. Now a $150k will trigger a very hefty tax which, with >> all the >> social securtity taxes, local taxes and whatnot reaches lofty heights. >> Assume >> the tax bill comes to $60k. How is that person going to pay the tax >> bill if only >> $50k is actually paid out? > > Oh, come on. I simply magicked figures out > of thin air with zero justification! Choose > any other figures if you wish; the principle > remains. > It is still detectable. If there is a will, and that was usually the problem. > >> Huge and unusual deductions or cooking an income tax statement is >> fraud which >> can be automatically fished out if the bureaucrats put their mind to it. > > What deductions are you referring to? > Or does the IRS actually determine that > you are paying too much /taxed/ income > for rent? > > >> Then there are spot checks and these can include what tax pros call a >> "root >> canal audit". This is where the tax inspectors look at actual bank >> statements >> and such. Afterwards some of the higher-ups in the company would >> probably be >> escorted out in handcuffs. > > I don't think it is beyond the wit of > accountants to figure that out. If the > taxman is getting the "right" amount of > tax, then do they /really/ care how > citizens spend the rest? > This is not the tax man, this is about visa abuse. Therefore, it is up to the Department of Labor to engage the IRS in a field check. They will likely have to reimburse the IRS for that. However, I am sure that even the IRS agent would raise an eyebrow if the net amount reported on an H1B employee's formal income statement does not match what arrived in his bank account. Same if that bank account is controlled by a 3rd party or large amounts of money would vanish from it every pay cycle. That is a hard red flag for fraud. It is usually a sign that the involved entities are also engaged in other "creative" methods. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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| From | Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-06 22:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <Rq6mA.125880$In1.87787@fx07.am4> |
| In reply to | #446469 |
On 06/02/17 21:31, Joerg wrote: > On 2017-02-06 12:41, Tom Gardner wrote: >> On 06/02/17 18:18, Joerg wrote: >>> On 2017-02-06 10:05, Tom Gardner wrote: >>>> On 06/02/17 17:24, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: >>>>> Den mandag den 6. februar 2017 kl. 18.10.51 UTC+1 skrev Tom Gardner: >>>>>> On 05/02/17 15:23, Joerg wrote: >>>>>>> Raising and most of all enforcing the required wage is the perfect >>>>>>> way to fix >>>>>>> H1B and I've always said that. Finally we have an administration that >>>>>>> understand >>>>>>> it. H1B is meant to haul in talent where we truly can't find an >>>>>>> engineer for, >>>>>>> not to obtain work results cheaper. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't disagree with that, but companies have lawyers >>>>>> that are adept at obeying the letter of the law while >>>>>> flouting the spirit of it. >>>>>> >>>>>> And obvious technique would be to pay someone $150k >>>>>> and then "suggest" they lived in luxurious accommodation >>>>>> costing $100k. It would be shocking, /shocking/, if >>>>>> that accommodation was also owned by an affiliate >>>>>> company :( >>>>> >>>>> there has been several cases of something similar here, not >>>>> with visas but with usually eastern European workers that on >>>>> paper is being paid the union agreement rate but then charged >>>>> an obscene rent for an apartment owned by the company >>>> >>>> Why am I not surprised! >>>> >>>> In the late 19th century the UK introduced laws >>>> that prevented employers forcing employees to >>>> purchase everything in their shops. >>> >>> >>> Easily detected. The H1B visa holder must file a tax return in the >>> country where >>> he or she works. Now a $150k will trigger a very hefty tax which, with >>> all the >>> social securtity taxes, local taxes and whatnot reaches lofty heights. >>> Assume >>> the tax bill comes to $60k. How is that person going to pay the tax >>> bill if only >>> $50k is actually paid out? >> >> Oh, come on. I simply magicked figures out >> of thin air with zero justification! Choose >> any other figures if you wish; the principle >> remains. >> > > It is still detectable. If there is a will, and that was usually the problem. > >> >>> Huge and unusual deductions or cooking an income tax statement is >>> fraud which >>> can be automatically fished out if the bureaucrats put their mind to it. >> >> What deductions are you referring to? >> Or does the IRS actually determine that >> you are paying too much /taxed/ income >> for rent? >> >> >>> Then there are spot checks and these can include what tax pros call a >>> "root >>> canal audit". This is where the tax inspectors look at actual bank >>> statements >>> and such. Afterwards some of the higher-ups in the company would >>> probably be >>> escorted out in handcuffs. >> >> I don't think it is beyond the wit of >> accountants to figure that out. If the >> taxman is getting the "right" amount of >> tax, then do they /really/ care how >> citizens spend the rest? >> > > This is not the tax man, this is about visa abuse. Indeed, but money was at the centre of the valid visa check. > Therefore, it is up to the > Department of Labor to engage the IRS in a field check. They will likely have to > reimburse the IRS for that. However, I am sure that even the IRS agent would > raise an eyebrow if the net amount reported on an H1B employee's formal income > statement does not match what arrived in his bank account. The same amount would arrive in their account. > Same if that bank > account is controlled by a 3rd party It wouldn't need to be. > or large amounts of money would vanish from > it every pay cycle. It wouldn't "vanish" per se; it would be paid out as rent/whatever. The ability to disguise the ultimate beneficiary of payments is a very well developed art :( > That is a hard red flag for fraud. It is usually a sign that > the involved entities are also engaged in other "creative" methods. Is it fraud if someone pays over the odds for something? Fundamentally I seriously dislike the abuse of visa systems to transfer jobs abroad. If anything can reduce that, I'm in favour of it. But I don't believe a simple "salary >$x" is a sufficient disincentive.
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| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-06 14:56 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <efsd7eFi28fU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #446479 |
On 2017-02-06 14:05, Tom Gardner wrote: > On 06/02/17 21:31, Joerg wrote: >> On 2017-02-06 12:41, Tom Gardner wrote: >>> On 06/02/17 18:18, Joerg wrote: >>>> On 2017-02-06 10:05, Tom Gardner wrote: >>>>> On 06/02/17 17:24, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: >>>>>> Den mandag den 6. februar 2017 kl. 18.10.51 UTC+1 skrev Tom Gardner: >>>>>>> On 05/02/17 15:23, Joerg wrote: >>>>>>>> Raising and most of all enforcing the required wage is the perfect >>>>>>>> way to fix >>>>>>>> H1B and I've always said that. Finally we have an administration >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> understand >>>>>>>> it. H1B is meant to haul in talent where we truly can't find an >>>>>>>> engineer for, >>>>>>>> not to obtain work results cheaper. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't disagree with that, but companies have lawyers >>>>>>> that are adept at obeying the letter of the law while >>>>>>> flouting the spirit of it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And obvious technique would be to pay someone $150k >>>>>>> and then "suggest" they lived in luxurious accommodation >>>>>>> costing $100k. It would be shocking, /shocking/, if >>>>>>> that accommodation was also owned by an affiliate >>>>>>> company :( >>>>>> >>>>>> there has been several cases of something similar here, not >>>>>> with visas but with usually eastern European workers that on >>>>>> paper is being paid the union agreement rate but then charged >>>>>> an obscene rent for an apartment owned by the company >>>>> >>>>> Why am I not surprised! >>>>> >>>>> In the late 19th century the UK introduced laws >>>>> that prevented employers forcing employees to >>>>> purchase everything in their shops. >>>> >>>> >>>> Easily detected. The H1B visa holder must file a tax return in the >>>> country where >>>> he or she works. Now a $150k will trigger a very hefty tax which, with >>>> all the >>>> social securtity taxes, local taxes and whatnot reaches lofty heights. >>>> Assume >>>> the tax bill comes to $60k. How is that person going to pay the tax >>>> bill if only >>>> $50k is actually paid out? >>> >>> Oh, come on. I simply magicked figures out >>> of thin air with zero justification! Choose >>> any other figures if you wish; the principle >>> remains. >>> >> >> It is still detectable. If there is a will, and that was usually the >> problem. >> >>> >>>> Huge and unusual deductions or cooking an income tax statement is >>>> fraud which >>>> can be automatically fished out if the bureaucrats put their mind to >>>> it. >>> >>> What deductions are you referring to? >>> Or does the IRS actually determine that >>> you are paying too much /taxed/ income >>> for rent? >>> >>> >>>> Then there are spot checks and these can include what tax pros call a >>>> "root >>>> canal audit". This is where the tax inspectors look at actual bank >>>> statements >>>> and such. Afterwards some of the higher-ups in the company would >>>> probably be >>>> escorted out in handcuffs. >>> >>> I don't think it is beyond the wit of >>> accountants to figure that out. If the >>> taxman is getting the "right" amount of >>> tax, then do they /really/ care how >>> citizens spend the rest? >>> >> >> This is not the tax man, this is about visa abuse. > > Indeed, but money was at the centre of the valid visa check. > Hence the tax authority should be engaged here. Just like other agencies sometimes work together when something needs to be looked at on another agency's turf. Which is clearly the case here. > >> Therefore, it is up to the >> Department of Labor to engage the IRS in a field check. They will >> likely have to >> reimburse the IRS for that. However, I am sure that even the IRS agent >> would >> raise an eyebrow if the net amount reported on an H1B employee's >> formal income >> statement does not match what arrived in his bank account. > > The same amount would arrive in their account. > > >> Same if that bank >> account is controlled by a 3rd party > > It wouldn't need to be. > Do you have examples where that really happened? Where things hit the fan and it made it into the media? > >> or large amounts of money would vanish from >> it every pay cycle. > > It wouldn't "vanish" per se; it would be paid out as > rent/whatever. > That would hit the fan in a root canal audit where they are looking for major money inflows and outflows. The IRS has a vested interest in people not shoveling money into some offshore account without declaring that. Therefore, a high reported income combined with paltry asset build-up and no filed form 8938 creates an immediate red flag. "What, do you rent a mansion? Where is it? Can we see it?" > The ability to disguise the ultimate beneficiary > of payments is a very well developed art :( > If the auditors were on their toes the company owners or executives would need a very seasoned mobster defense attorney to get out of that one. > >> That is a hard red flag for fraud. It is usually a sign that >> the involved entities are also engaged in other "creative" methods. > > Is it fraud if someone pays over the odds for something? > If he is forced to and this happens to scores of other people, yes. It is only a matter of time until one of them will sing or until a tax audit happens. As long as there are people investigating and that's what didn't happen in the past. Prevailing wage was a toothless rule. Until now. > Fundamentally I seriously dislike the abuse of visa > systems to transfer jobs abroad. If anything can reduce > that, I'm in favour of it. But I don't believe a simple > "salary >$x" is a sufficient disincentive. It is _if_ there is enforcement. Just like with any law. If the minimum salary level is set to $130k it would be a dangerous stretch to make an H1B holder pay $10k/month rent for some small 2BR apartment in a seedy part of town. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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| From | mixed nuts <melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-05 10:32 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <o77gim$79l$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #446256 |
On 2/5/2017 1:52 AM, dakupoto@gmail.com wrote: > On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 8:12:03 PM UTC-5, Martin Riddle wrote: >> On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 08:16:27 -0800 (PST), >> bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> This is going to fly like a lead balloon: >>> >>> http://tinyurl.com/zg8k64f >> >> So instead of displacing 1 american worker, they'll displace 2? >> >> Cheers > > That is very well said. And now more and more > US high tech companies will try to outsource > as many of their jobs as possible to off-shore > sites. We will need many very beautiful and very highly profitable hotels where top men (men who are builders and have the best words and know how to get things done very quickly and at very low cost) from US companies can meet other top men from other countries to make the very best deals. Then, after the best deals have been made, these men (the very best, and most highly skilled people for the job) can play golf at very beautiful, and very exclusive, golf resorts where many wealthy celebrities congregate. America will become great again. -- Grizzly H.
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| From | Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-05 19:15 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <o77q3l$n2h$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #446278 |
On 05/02/17 16:32, mixed nuts wrote: > On 2/5/2017 1:52 AM, dakupoto@gmail.com wrote: >> On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 8:12:03 PM UTC-5, Martin Riddle wrote: >>> On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 08:16:27 -0800 (PST), >>> bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>> This is going to fly like a lead balloon: >>>> >>>> http://tinyurl.com/zg8k64f >>> >>> So instead of displacing 1 american worker, they'll displace 2? >>> >>> Cheers >> >> That is very well said. And now more and more >> US high tech companies will try to outsource >> as many of their jobs as possible to off-shore >> sites. > > We will need many very beautiful and very highly profitable hotels where > top men (men who are builders and have the best words and know how to > get things done very quickly and at very low cost) from US companies can > meet other top men from other countries to make the very best deals. > > Then, after the best deals have been made, these men (the very best, and > most highly skilled people for the job) can play golf at very beautiful, > and very exclusive, golf resorts where many wealthy celebrities congregate. > > America will become great again. > I sense you begrudge these highly efficient professionals. You're a communist at heart then. Jeroen Belleman
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| From | mixed nuts <melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-05 23:06 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <o78sob$779$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #446304 |
On 2/5/2017 1:15 PM, Jeroen Belleman wrote: > On 05/02/17 16:32, mixed nuts wrote: >> On 2/5/2017 1:52 AM, dakupoto@gmail.com wrote: >>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 8:12:03 PM UTC-5, Martin Riddle wrote: >>>> On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 08:16:27 -0800 (PST), >>>> bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> This is going to fly like a lead balloon: >>>>> >>>>> http://tinyurl.com/zg8k64f >>>> >>>> So instead of displacing 1 american worker, they'll displace 2? >>>> >>>> Cheers >>> >>> That is very well said. And now more and more >>> US high tech companies will try to outsource >>> as many of their jobs as possible to off-shore >>> sites. >> >> We will need many very beautiful and very highly profitable hotels where >> top men (men who are builders and have the best words and know how to >> get things done very quickly and at very low cost) from US companies can >> meet other top men from other countries to make the very best deals. >> >> Then, after the best deals have been made, these men (the very best, and >> most highly skilled people for the job) can play golf at very beautiful, >> and very exclusive, golf resorts where many wealthy celebrities >> congregate. >> >> America will become great again. >> > I sense you begrudge these highly efficient professionals. > You're a communist at heart then. Commie-fascist, I believe. It's hard to keep up as definitions are created and recreated more rapidly than I can follow. -- Grizzly H.
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| From | bill.sloman@ieee.org |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-06 03:24 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <a5755c3c-cf42-4dd2-a95c-53c5f73eea80@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #446373 |
On Monday, February 6, 2017 at 3:06:39 PM UTC+11, mixed nuts wrote: > On 2/5/2017 1:15 PM, Jeroen Belleman wrote: > > On 05/02/17 16:32, mixed nuts wrote: > >> On 2/5/2017 1:52 AM, dakupoto@gmail.com wrote: > >>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 8:12:03 PM UTC-5, Martin Riddle wrote: > >>>> On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 08:16:27 -0800 (PST), > >>>> bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> This is going to fly like a lead balloon: > >>>>> > >>>>> http://tinyurl.com/zg8k64f > >>>> > >>>> So instead of displacing 1 american worker, they'll displace 2? > >>>> > >>>> Cheers > >>> > >>> That is very well said. And now more and more > >>> US high tech companies will try to outsource > >>> as many of their jobs as possible to off-shore > >>> sites. > >> > >> We will need many very beautiful and very highly profitable hotels where > >> top men (men who are builders and have the best words and know how to > >> get things done very quickly and at very low cost) from US companies can > >> meet other top men from other countries to make the very best deals. > >> > >> Then, after the best deals have been made, these men (the very best, and > >> most highly skilled people for the job) can play golf at very beautiful, > >> and very exclusive, golf resorts where many wealthy celebrities > >> congregate. > >> > >> America will become great again. > >> > > I sense you begrudge these highly efficient professionals. > > You're a communist at heart then. > > Commie-fascist, I believe. It's hard to keep up as definitions are > created and recreated more rapidly than I can follow. Julian Barnes is our only poster who seems to use "communist" as if he thinks there are any still around. Jeroen Belleman was probably being satirical. Our regular right-wingers use "socialist" as if it meant Soviet-era communist, but they don't bother trying to resolve the left-wing end of the political spectrum at the best of times. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
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