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Groups > sci.electronics.design > #446532 > unrolled thread

Vaccinations

Started byDon Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
First post2017-02-06 17:50 -0700
Last post2017-02-07 01:52 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 89 — 25 participants

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Contents

  Vaccinations Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-06 17:50 -0700
    Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-06 16:55 -0800
      Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 21:26 -0500
    Re: Vaccinations Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-02-06 17:56 -0700
      Re: Vaccinations "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-06 17:01 -0800
      Re: Vaccinations Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-06 18:04 -0700
      Re: Vaccinations Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-02-07 12:21 +1100
        Re: Vaccinations Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-02-06 18:57 -0700
          Re: Vaccinations Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-02-07 13:17 +1100
            Re: Vaccinations Rheilly Phoull <rheilly@bigslong.com> - 2017-02-07 10:22 +0800
            Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 21:35 -0500
              Re: Vaccinations Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-02-07 13:39 +1100
                Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 23:31 -0500
            Re: Vaccinations Martin Riddle <martin_ridd@verizon.net> - 2017-02-06 22:47 -0500
            Re: Vaccinations John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-06 20:46 -0800
              Re: Vaccinations bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-02-07 02:20 -0800
              Re: Vaccinations dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt) - 2017-02-07 11:30 -0800
                Re: Vaccinations John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-07 12:03 -0800
                  Re: Vaccinations Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-02-08 18:22 +0800
                    Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 05:23 -0500
                      Re: Vaccinations Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-02-08 18:39 +0800
                        Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-08 06:12 -0800
                          Re: Vaccinations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-08 15:38 +0100
                          Re: Vaccinations M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net> - 2017-02-09 19:27 -0500
                            Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-09 16:59 -0800
                    Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-08 06:09 -0800
                      Re: Vaccinations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-08 15:39 +0100
                        Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 17:05 -0500
          Re: Vaccinations Martin Riddle <martin_ridd@verizon.net> - 2017-02-06 22:45 -0500
          Re: Vaccinations Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-07 08:21 +0000
      Re: Vaccinations Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-07 08:19 +0000
        Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 04:20 -0500
          Re: Vaccinations Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-07 09:42 +0000
      Re: Vaccinations Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-07 17:57 +0000
        Re: Vaccinations Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-02-07 11:12 -0700
          Re: Vaccinations "tom" <tmiller11147@verizon.net> - 2017-02-07 15:43 -0500
            Re: Vaccinations krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-07 21:15 -0500
              Re: Vaccinations amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-02-08 07:46 -0600
                Re: Vaccinations krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 12:45 -0500
                Re: Vaccinations dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt) - 2017-02-08 11:33 -0800
                  Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 17:19 -0500
              Re: Vaccinations Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-08 17:57 +0000
                Re: Vaccinations krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 13:16 -0500
                  Re: Vaccinations Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2017-02-08 18:32 +0000
                    Re: Vaccinations Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-08 12:09 -0700
          Re: Vaccinations John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2017-02-07 21:08 +0000
            Re: Vaccinations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-08 12:45 +0100
              Re: Vaccinations Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-08 18:00 +0000
                Re: Vaccinations krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 13:16 -0500
                  Re: Vaccinations Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-02-08 11:28 -0700
                    Re: Vaccinations krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-08 20:33 -0500
                Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 17:26 -0500
                  Re: Vaccinations Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-08 23:09 +0000
                    Re: Vaccinations Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-08 15:33 -0800
                    Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-08 15:42 -0800
                    Re: Vaccinations Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-08 23:43 +0000
                    Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 20:56 -0500
                  Re: Vaccinations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-09 10:58 +0100
                    Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 05:35 -0500
                      Re: Vaccinations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-09 12:54 +0100
                        Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 07:20 -0500
                          Re: Vaccinations Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-09 13:38 +0000
                          Re: Vaccinations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-09 14:56 +0100
                            Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 17:47 -0500
                              Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-09 17:16 -0800
                          Re: Vaccinations Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-09 16:40 +0000
                            Re: Vaccinations amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-02-09 11:04 -0600
                            Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 17:46 -0500
                      Re: Vaccinations amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-02-09 09:15 -0600
                      Re: Vaccinations Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-10 16:36 +0000
                        Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-10 16:41 -0800
            Re: Vaccinations John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-08 09:12 -0800
              Re: Vaccinations Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-08 09:36 -0800
                Re: Vaccinations John Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-02-08 12:40 -0800
              Re: Vaccinations Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-08 11:51 -0700
              Re: Vaccinations John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2017-02-09 15:02 +0000
                Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 17:46 -0500
                  Re: Vaccinations Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> - 2017-02-10 16:52 +0000
                    Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-10 16:46 -0800
                Re: Vaccinations krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-09 21:12 -0500
                  Re: Vaccinations bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-09 19:01 -0800
                  Re: Vaccinations John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2017-02-10 08:23 +0000
                    Re: Vaccinations krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-10 12:23 -0500
                      Re: Vaccinations John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2017-02-10 18:09 +0000
        Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 16:31 -0500
    Re: Vaccinations artie <artie.m@gNOSPAMmail.com> - 2017-02-06 17:28 -0800
      Re: Vaccinations Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-02-06 19:11 -0700
        Re: Vaccinations rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 21:34 -0500
    Re: Vaccinations Frank Miles <fpm@u.washington.edu> - 2017-02-07 01:52 +0000

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#446532 — Vaccinations

FromDon Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Date2017-02-06 17:50 -0700
SubjectVaccinations
Message-ID<o7b5h7$v3f$1@dont-email.me>
Trip to PCP and now there's talk of HepB, HPV, and meningitis vaccinations
in addition to the previous recommendations (guidelines) on Pneumonia and
Shingles.  (I recall being tested for HepC but that was supposedly
just a general recommendation for my age group)

Anyone else seeing any of this?

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#446540

Frombill.sloman@ieee.org
Date2017-02-06 16:55 -0800
Message-ID<ae7dbad5-f715-4f87-8a3f-870edb4e2e83@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#446532
On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 at 11:50:29 AM UTC+11, Don Y wrote:
> Trip to PCP and now there's talk of HepB, HPV, and meningitis vaccinations
> in addition to the previous recommendations (guidelines) on Pneumonia and
> Shingles.  (I recall being tested for HepC but that was supposedly
> just a general recommendation for my age group)
> 
> Anyone else seeing any of this?

In Australia there's a recommendation for anti-shingle vaccination for my age-group - 70+. It hasn't happened yet, and my GP will probably fill me in the next time I see her.

Not getting shingles is a good move. One of our even older friends got it, and it's no fun.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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#446573

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-06 21:26 -0500
Message-ID<o7bb5o$ems$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#446540
On 2/6/2017 7:55 PM, bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 at 11:50:29 AM UTC+11, Don Y wrote:
>> Trip to PCP and now there's talk of HepB, HPV, and meningitis vaccinations
>> in addition to the previous recommendations (guidelines) on Pneumonia and
>> Shingles.  (I recall being tested for HepC but that was supposedly
>> just a general recommendation for my age group)
>>
>> Anyone else seeing any of this?
>
> In Australia there's a recommendation for anti-shingle vaccination for my age-group - 70+. It hasn't happened yet, and my GP will probably fill me in the next time I see her.
>
> Not getting shingles is a good move. One of our even older friends got it, and it's no fun.

I don't get the shingles vaccine.  It is only something like 50 to 60% 
effective and the number gets worse in older age groups.  That is not 
surprising as shingles is just a reemergence of the chickenpox virus due 
to a weakened immune system.  Older people have weaker immune systems. 
This both increases the risk of a shingles outbreak and reduces the 
effectiveness of the vaccine.  Seems like we can't win on that one.

-- 

Rick C

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#446541

FromJim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com>
Date2017-02-06 17:56 -0700
Message-ID<aj6i9ct49u5vg4r8vk9jr5ja5aff2ch8m5@4ax.com>
In reply to#446532
On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 17:50:26 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
wrote:

>Trip to PCP and now there's talk of HepB, HPV, and meningitis vaccinations
>in addition to the previous recommendations (guidelines) on Pneumonia and
>Shingles.  (I recall being tested for HepC but that was supposedly
>just a general recommendation for my age group)
>
>Anyone else seeing any of this?

I opted for the pneumonia one... all the rest, including flu, I avoid.

My father always got the annual flu vaccine... and always ended up
with the flu.  I haven't had the flu since 1964... knock on wood ;-)

On the other hand, if you're into diddling teenagers, you might want
to get HepB and HPV vaccines ;-)
		
                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142    Skype: skypeanalog |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |

     Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions.

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#446545

From"dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org>
Date2017-02-06 17:01 -0800
Message-ID<66be07fd-6afc-484c-a53d-93a1fd918102@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#446541
On Monday, February 6, 2017 at 7:56:12 PM UTC-5, Jim Thompson wrote:
>
> My father always got the annual flu vaccine... and always ended up
> with the flu.  I haven't had the flu since 1964... knock on wood ;-)
> 
                        ...Jim Thompson

I also have not had  the flu since about 1967.  But I get a flu shot every year

                                          Dan

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#446547

FromDon Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Date2017-02-06 18:04 -0700
Message-ID<o7b6c8$2d8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#446541
On 2/6/2017 5:56 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 17:50:26 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Trip to PCP and now there's talk of HepB, HPV, and meningitis vaccinations
>> in addition to the previous recommendations (guidelines) on Pneumonia and
>> Shingles.  (I recall being tested for HepC but that was supposedly
>> just a general recommendation for my age group)
>>
>> Anyone else seeing any of this?
>
> I opted for the pneumonia one... all the rest, including flu, I avoid.
>
> My father always got the annual flu vaccine... and always ended up
> with the flu.  I haven't had the flu since 1964... knock on wood ;-)

I've not had flu since I started getting the annual vaccination.
(touch wood).  Prior to that, I spent whole SEASONS ill!

> On the other hand, if you're into diddling teenagers, you might want
> to get HepB and HPV vaccines ;-)

I only glanced at the article posted on the bulletin board, recognizing it
as "new" (since my previous visit) -- but didn't have time to read the
recommendations, etc.

We'll be having a chat re: the shingles vaccine as I've recently had
a second (lifetime) case of chickenpox and wonder if that's recent enough
to have reinforced the antibodies that the vaccine is intended to develop.
Or, if there are other mechanisms involved.

[Also would like to know if the nerves most recently affected are good
predictors of where shingles might eventually "reappear".  Had a friend
with it in her *eye*....ick!]

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#446554

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2017-02-07 12:21 +1100
Message-ID<efslooFjgs1U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#446541
On 7/02/2017 11:56 AM, Jim Thompson wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 17:50:26 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Trip to PCP and now there's talk of HepB, HPV, and meningitis vaccinations
>> in addition to the previous recommendations (guidelines) on Pneumonia and
>> Shingles.  (I recall being tested for HepC but that was supposedly
>> just a general recommendation for my age group)
>>
>> Anyone else seeing any of this?
>
> I opted for the pneumonia one... all the rest, including flu, I avoid.
>
> My father always got the annual flu vaccine... and always ended up
> with the flu.  I haven't had the flu since 1964... knock on wood ;-)

I haven't had flu (i.e. real influenza) in decades or it's been so mild 
I didn't recognise it as flu. This despite only being vaccinated in a 
couple of years. Seems some of us as just more resistant to it (or 
tolerant of it) than others.

Sylvia.

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#446564

FromJim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com>
Date2017-02-06 18:57 -0700
Message-ID<gaai9clacrl68reg4ahqu6hj4a070d2nbb@4ax.com>
In reply to#446554
On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 12:21:28 +1100, Sylvia Else
<sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:

>On 7/02/2017 11:56 AM, Jim Thompson wrote:
>> On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 17:50:26 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Trip to PCP and now there's talk of HepB, HPV, and meningitis vaccinations
>>> in addition to the previous recommendations (guidelines) on Pneumonia and
>>> Shingles.  (I recall being tested for HepC but that was supposedly
>>> just a general recommendation for my age group)
>>>
>>> Anyone else seeing any of this?
>>
>> I opted for the pneumonia one... all the rest, including flu, I avoid.
>>
>> My father always got the annual flu vaccine... and always ended up
>> with the flu.  I haven't had the flu since 1964... knock on wood ;-)
>
>I haven't had flu (i.e. real influenza) in decades or it's been so mild 
>I didn't recognise it as flu. This despite only being vaccinated in a 
>couple of years. Seems some of us as just more resistant to it (or 
>tolerant of it) than others.
>
>Sylvia.

I agree with that.  Maybe the "resistant" is due to enough exposure to
serve as auto-vaccination ??
		
                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142    Skype: skypeanalog |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |

     Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#446569

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2017-02-07 13:17 +1100
Message-ID<efsp1fFk4stU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#446564
On 7/02/2017 12:57 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 12:21:28 +1100, Sylvia Else
> <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>
>> On 7/02/2017 11:56 AM, Jim Thompson wrote:
>>> On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 17:50:26 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Trip to PCP and now there's talk of HepB, HPV, and meningitis vaccinations
>>>> in addition to the previous recommendations (guidelines) on Pneumonia and
>>>> Shingles.  (I recall being tested for HepC but that was supposedly
>>>> just a general recommendation for my age group)
>>>>
>>>> Anyone else seeing any of this?
>>>
>>> I opted for the pneumonia one... all the rest, including flu, I avoid.
>>>
>>> My father always got the annual flu vaccine... and always ended up
>>> with the flu.  I haven't had the flu since 1964... knock on wood ;-)
>>
>> I haven't had flu (i.e. real influenza) in decades or it's been so mild
>> I didn't recognise it as flu. This despite only being vaccinated in a
>> couple of years. Seems some of us as just more resistant to it (or
>> tolerant of it) than others.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> I agree with that.  Maybe the "resistant" is due to enough exposure to
> serve as auto-vaccination ??
> 		
>                                          ...Jim Thompson
>

The influenza virus mutates it goes round the world. That's why a new 
vaccination is required each time. Maybe some of us are lucky enough 
that our immune systems have latched onto something that doesn't change, 
so that immunity to one strain gives immunity to the others.

Don't know - just speculating.

Sylvia.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#446571

FromRheilly Phoull <rheilly@bigslong.com>
Date2017-02-07 10:22 +0800
Message-ID<z7CdnWjVpunlsgTFnZ2dnUU7-emdnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
In reply to#446569
On 7/02/2017 10:17 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 7/02/2017 12:57 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
>> On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 12:21:28 +1100, Sylvia Else
>> <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/02/2017 11:56 AM, Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 17:50:26 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Trip to PCP and now there's talk of HepB, HPV, and meningitis
>>>>> vaccinations
>>>>> in addition to the previous recommendations (guidelines) on
>>>>> Pneumonia and
>>>>> Shingles.  (I recall being tested for HepC but that was supposedly
>>>>> just a general recommendation for my age group)
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone else seeing any of this?
>>>>
>>>> I opted for the pneumonia one... all the rest, including flu, I avoid.
>>>>
>>>> My father always got the annual flu vaccine... and always ended up
>>>> with the flu.  I haven't had the flu since 1964... knock on wood ;-)
>>>
>>> I haven't had flu (i.e. real influenza) in decades or it's been so mild
>>> I didn't recognise it as flu. This despite only being vaccinated in a
>>> couple of years. Seems some of us as just more resistant to it (or
>>> tolerant of it) than others.
>>>
>>> Sylvia.
>>
>> I agree with that.  Maybe the "resistant" is due to enough exposure to
>> serve as auto-vaccination ??
>>
>>                                          ...Jim Thompson
>>
>
> The influenza virus mutates it goes round the world. That's why a new
> vaccination is required each time. Maybe some of us are lucky enough
> that our immune systems have latched onto something that doesn't change,
> so that immunity to one strain gives immunity to the others.
>
> Don't know - just speculating.
>
> Sylvia.

I reckon the only test is to go on a long haul aircraft or coach etc. if 
you get through that without some respiratory complaint you would be 
lucky or have good resistance.

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#446577

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-06 21:35 -0500
Message-ID<o7bbm6$gi4$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#446569
On 2/6/2017 9:17 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 7/02/2017 12:57 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
>> On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 12:21:28 +1100, Sylvia Else
>> <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/02/2017 11:56 AM, Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 17:50:26 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Trip to PCP and now there's talk of HepB, HPV, and meningitis
>>>>> vaccinations
>>>>> in addition to the previous recommendations (guidelines) on
>>>>> Pneumonia and
>>>>> Shingles.  (I recall being tested for HepC but that was supposedly
>>>>> just a general recommendation for my age group)
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone else seeing any of this?
>>>>
>>>> I opted for the pneumonia one... all the rest, including flu, I avoid.
>>>>
>>>> My father always got the annual flu vaccine... and always ended up
>>>> with the flu.  I haven't had the flu since 1964... knock on wood ;-)
>>>
>>> I haven't had flu (i.e. real influenza) in decades or it's been so mild
>>> I didn't recognise it as flu. This despite only being vaccinated in a
>>> couple of years. Seems some of us as just more resistant to it (or
>>> tolerant of it) than others.
>>>
>>> Sylvia.
>>
>> I agree with that.  Maybe the "resistant" is due to enough exposure to
>> serve as auto-vaccination ??
>>
>>                                          ...Jim Thompson
>>
>
> The influenza virus mutates it goes round the world. That's why a new
> vaccination is required each time. Maybe some of us are lucky enough
> that our immune systems have latched onto something that doesn't change,
> so that immunity to one strain gives immunity to the others.
>
> Don't know - just speculating.

Don't you think someone would have figured this out if it were the case? 
  Why make stuff up?

-- 

Rick C

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#446578

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2017-02-07 13:39 +1100
Message-ID<efsqb7Fkcl2U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#446577
On 7/02/2017 1:35 PM, rickman wrote:
> On 2/6/2017 9:17 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 7/02/2017 12:57 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
>>> On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 12:21:28 +1100, Sylvia Else
>>> <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/02/2017 11:56 AM, Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 17:50:26 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Trip to PCP and now there's talk of HepB, HPV, and meningitis
>>>>>> vaccinations
>>>>>> in addition to the previous recommendations (guidelines) on
>>>>>> Pneumonia and
>>>>>> Shingles.  (I recall being tested for HepC but that was supposedly
>>>>>> just a general recommendation for my age group)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone else seeing any of this?
>>>>>
>>>>> I opted for the pneumonia one... all the rest, including flu, I avoid.
>>>>>
>>>>> My father always got the annual flu vaccine... and always ended up
>>>>> with the flu.  I haven't had the flu since 1964... knock on wood ;-)
>>>>
>>>> I haven't had flu (i.e. real influenza) in decades or it's been so mild
>>>> I didn't recognise it as flu. This despite only being vaccinated in a
>>>> couple of years. Seems some of us as just more resistant to it (or
>>>> tolerant of it) than others.
>>>>
>>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>> I agree with that.  Maybe the "resistant" is due to enough exposure to
>>> serve as auto-vaccination ??
>>>
>>>                                          ...Jim Thompson
>>>
>>
>> The influenza virus mutates it goes round the world. That's why a new
>> vaccination is required each time. Maybe some of us are lucky enough
>> that our immune systems have latched onto something that doesn't change,
>> so that immunity to one strain gives immunity to the others.
>>
>> Don't know - just speculating.
>
> Don't you think someone would have figured this out if it were the case?
>   Why make stuff up?
>

Why not? That's why we have a word for it.

Sylvia.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#446600

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-06 23:31 -0500
Message-ID<o7bife$ofp$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#446578
On 2/6/2017 9:39 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 7/02/2017 1:35 PM, rickman wrote:
>> On 2/6/2017 9:17 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>> On 7/02/2017 12:57 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 12:21:28 +1100, Sylvia Else
>>>> <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 7/02/2017 11:56 AM, Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 17:50:26 -0700, Don Y
>>>>>> <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Trip to PCP and now there's talk of HepB, HPV, and meningitis
>>>>>>> vaccinations
>>>>>>> in addition to the previous recommendations (guidelines) on
>>>>>>> Pneumonia and
>>>>>>> Shingles.  (I recall being tested for HepC but that was supposedly
>>>>>>> just a general recommendation for my age group)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone else seeing any of this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I opted for the pneumonia one... all the rest, including flu, I
>>>>>> avoid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My father always got the annual flu vaccine... and always ended up
>>>>>> with the flu.  I haven't had the flu since 1964... knock on wood ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't had flu (i.e. real influenza) in decades or it's been so
>>>>> mild
>>>>> I didn't recognise it as flu. This despite only being vaccinated in a
>>>>> couple of years. Seems some of us as just more resistant to it (or
>>>>> tolerant of it) than others.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>
>>>> I agree with that.  Maybe the "resistant" is due to enough exposure to
>>>> serve as auto-vaccination ??
>>>>
>>>>                                          ...Jim Thompson
>>>>
>>>
>>> The influenza virus mutates it goes round the world. That's why a new
>>> vaccination is required each time. Maybe some of us are lucky enough
>>> that our immune systems have latched onto something that doesn't change,
>>> so that immunity to one strain gives immunity to the others.
>>>
>>> Don't know - just speculating.
>>
>> Don't you think someone would have figured this out if it were the case?
>>   Why make stuff up?
>>
>
> Why not? That's why we have a word for it.

Speculating is suggesting a possibility in the absence of information. 
The information is available.  You just haven't looked for it.  That's 
making stuff up.

-- 

Rick C

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#446591

FromMartin Riddle <martin_ridd@verizon.net>
Date2017-02-06 22:47 -0500
Message-ID<9ngi9clutuevjs9rh2icgnot99afboclo3@4ax.com>
In reply to#446569
On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 13:17:19 +1100, Sylvia Else
<sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:

>On 7/02/2017 12:57 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
>> On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 12:21:28 +1100, Sylvia Else
>> <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/02/2017 11:56 AM, Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 17:50:26 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Trip to PCP and now there's talk of HepB, HPV, and meningitis vaccinations
>>>>> in addition to the previous recommendations (guidelines) on Pneumonia and
>>>>> Shingles.  (I recall being tested for HepC but that was supposedly
>>>>> just a general recommendation for my age group)
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone else seeing any of this?
>>>>
>>>> I opted for the pneumonia one... all the rest, including flu, I avoid.
>>>>
>>>> My father always got the annual flu vaccine... and always ended up
>>>> with the flu.  I haven't had the flu since 1964... knock on wood ;-)
>>>
>>> I haven't had flu (i.e. real influenza) in decades or it's been so mild
>>> I didn't recognise it as flu. This despite only being vaccinated in a
>>> couple of years. Seems some of us as just more resistant to it (or
>>> tolerant of it) than others.
>>>
>>> Sylvia.
>>
>> I agree with that.  Maybe the "resistant" is due to enough exposure to
>> serve as auto-vaccination ??
>> 		
>>                                          ...Jim Thompson
>>
>
>The influenza virus mutates it goes round the world. That's why a new 
>vaccination is required each time. Maybe some of us are lucky enough 
>that our immune systems have latched onto something that doesn't change, 
>so that immunity to one strain gives immunity to the others.
>
>Don't know - just speculating.
>
>Sylvia.

There are tests for  antibodies, but some can give false positives. So
they are not routinely given, plus they are expensive.

Cheers

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#446603

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>
Date2017-02-06 20:46 -0800
Message-ID<6vji9c9ghhj3mhs9odbllotts8m76f0hk5@4ax.com>
In reply to#446569
On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 13:17:19 +1100, Sylvia Else
<sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:

>On 7/02/2017 12:57 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
>> On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 12:21:28 +1100, Sylvia Else
>> <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/02/2017 11:56 AM, Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 17:50:26 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Trip to PCP and now there's talk of HepB, HPV, and meningitis vaccinations
>>>>> in addition to the previous recommendations (guidelines) on Pneumonia and
>>>>> Shingles.  (I recall being tested for HepC but that was supposedly
>>>>> just a general recommendation for my age group)
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone else seeing any of this?
>>>>
>>>> I opted for the pneumonia one... all the rest, including flu, I avoid.
>>>>
>>>> My father always got the annual flu vaccine... and always ended up
>>>> with the flu.  I haven't had the flu since 1964... knock on wood ;-)
>>>
>>> I haven't had flu (i.e. real influenza) in decades or it's been so mild
>>> I didn't recognise it as flu. This despite only being vaccinated in a
>>> couple of years. Seems some of us as just more resistant to it (or
>>> tolerant of it) than others.
>>>
>>> Sylvia.
>>
>> I agree with that.  Maybe the "resistant" is due to enough exposure to
>> serve as auto-vaccination ??
>> 		
>>                                          ...Jim Thompson
>>
>
>The influenza virus mutates it goes round the world. That's why a new 
>vaccination is required each time. Maybe some of us are lucky enough 
>that our immune systems have latched onto something that doesn't change, 
>so that immunity to one strain gives immunity to the others.
>
>Don't know - just speculating.
>
>Sylvia.

Most viruses are specific to one or a few species. So most species are
immune to most viruses. It would make sense that sub-species, namely
some individuals, would also be immune to classes of viruses. That
diversity keeps a species from being wiped out by one nasty virus.

I wonder why every critter isn't immune to all viruses. Are viruses so
clever? Or do viruses have a useful function, like horizontal
transmission of genes? Evolution works way better if there is
horizontal transmission.




-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#446631

Frombloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com
Date2017-02-07 02:20 -0800
Message-ID<81a35eb1-6120-4a8f-ba27-4ca6a86aa955@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#446603
On Monday, February 6, 2017 at 11:46:18 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 13:17:19 +1100, Sylvia Else
> <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
> 
> >On 7/02/2017 12:57 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
> >> On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 12:21:28 +1100, Sylvia Else
> >> <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 7/02/2017 11:56 AM, Jim Thompson wrote:
> >>>> On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 17:50:26 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Trip to PCP and now there's talk of HepB, HPV, and meningitis vaccinations
> >>>>> in addition to the previous recommendations (guidelines) on Pneumonia and
> >>>>> Shingles.  (I recall being tested for HepC but that was supposedly
> >>>>> just a general recommendation for my age group)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Anyone else seeing any of this?
> >>>>
> >>>> I opted for the pneumonia one... all the rest, including flu, I avoid.
> >>>>
> >>>> My father always got the annual flu vaccine... and always ended up
> >>>> with the flu.  I haven't had the flu since 1964... knock on wood ;-)
> >>>
> >>> I haven't had flu (i.e. real influenza) in decades or it's been so mild
> >>> I didn't recognise it as flu. This despite only being vaccinated in a
> >>> couple of years. Seems some of us as just more resistant to it (or
> >>> tolerant of it) than others.
> >>>
> >>> Sylvia.
> >>
> >> I agree with that.  Maybe the "resistant" is due to enough exposure to
> >> serve as auto-vaccination ??
> >> 		
> >>                                          ...Jim Thompson
> >>
> >
> >The influenza virus mutates it goes round the world. That's why a new 
> >vaccination is required each time. Maybe some of us are lucky enough 
> >that our immune systems have latched onto something that doesn't change, 
> >so that immunity to one strain gives immunity to the others.
> >
> >Don't know - just speculating.
> >
> >Sylvia.
> 
> Most viruses are specific to one or a few species. So most species are
> immune to most viruses. It would make sense that sub-species, namely
> some individuals, would also be immune to classes of viruses. That
> diversity keeps a species from being wiped out by one nasty virus.
> 
> I wonder why every critter isn't immune to all viruses. Are viruses so
> clever? Or do viruses have a useful function, like horizontal
> transmission of genes? Evolution works way better if there is
> horizontal transmission.

The very existence of the virus, which survives and propagates in animal tissue, implies some species somewhere is not immune to it. And viral infection does not mean the host comes down with symptoms and dies. The host can support the virus without developing symptoms. There are species of animal that support and tolerate rabies for nearly a lifetime while remaining asymptomatic, at least while they're healthy and strong. 
These people who claim to be immune to the influenza while never being vaccinated may be benefitting from the development of a super-antibody, a completely accidental event, that attacks a viral protein conserved across strains of the virus, or at least the ones they've been exposed to thus far. Every virus is different and that's why it's foolish to make broad generalizations about immunity and vaccination in general. 
As for your last comment, generally not a good thing when a pathogen integrates foreign DNA into the cell nucleus. That's how cancers get started. Mother nature doesn't care about the individual a whole lot, she's been known to confer immunity/resistance to boost the species past the reproduction child rearing years and then kill you dead soon thereafter, and actually that seems to be the norm. There are other hazards arising from viral infection, and even bacteria for that matter, and that is the issue of your immune response inadvertently producing lymphocytes that attack self as well as the pathogen or cells harboring pathogen. Heart valve tissue seems to be especially vulnerable to this effect, but there are others.


> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
> 
> lunatic fringe electronics

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#446673

Fromdplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt)
Date2017-02-07 11:30 -0800
Message-ID<1rjpmd-5qu.ln1@coop.radagast.org>
In reply to#446603
In article <6vji9c9ghhj3mhs9odbllotts8m76f0hk5@4ax.com>,
John Larkin  <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

>Most viruses are specific to one or a few species. So most species are
>immune to most viruses. It would make sense that sub-species, namely
>some individuals, would also be immune to classes of viruses. That
>diversity keeps a species from being wiped out by one nasty virus.

Yes, that's entirely plausible.  There are plenty of viral diseases
which hit some people quite hard (up to and including lethality), but
other people either have only mild symptoms or are entirely
asymptomatic.  In some cases the difference can be pinned down to the
effect of a single gene - the virus is able to spread effectively only
in people with one specific allele, and not in others.

>I wonder why every critter isn't immune to all viruses.

Immunity to viruses (and bacteria, and rickettsia, and parasites) is
always a tradeoff.  The immune system has to distinguish between
"self", "non-harmful not-self", and "harmful not-self"
molecules... mounting an attack against the latter category, and
accepting the other two.  This isn't an easy distinction, and there
are plenty of ways that the balance can go wrong one way or the
other.  If the body is *too* prone to react, you get allergies
(e.g. to peanuts) which can be quickly fatal, and you can also get
auto-immune diseases (lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, rheumatic fever,
Hashimoto's, Type 1 diabetes).

In most cases (as I understand it) the body can't predictively "guess"
which sorts of antigens mean "BAD - KILL IT WITH FIRE!".  Instead, the
body has to wait until an initial infection occurs... take note of the
fact that cells are dying and that they're exhibiting antigen X in the
process... and then start manufacturing antibodies against antigen X
to (1) cure the disease and (2) react immediately if antigen X shows up
again in the future.  Hence, vaccination:  dose the body with a
harmless dose of antigen X, plus (in many cases) something to
stimulate the "This is harmful, KILL!" immune reaction.

> Are viruses so clever?

As to viruses being "clever" - I think it's more accurate to say
"sloppy".  The virus gene-replication process can be rather
error-prone, and errors during replication cause some of the next
generation of viruses to be significantly different than the
previous.  As everywhere, most of these mutations are either damaging
or neutral.  In some cases, the mutated virus has "changed its coat"
(i.e. its antigenic structure) enough to avoid recognition by
antibodies that were effective against the "old" virus.

> Or do viruses have a useful function, like horizontal
>transmission of genes? Evolution works way better if there is
>horizontal transmission.

As to horizontal gene transmission:  you betcha!  Virus transmission
of antibiotic-resistance genes plays a significant role in the
development of resistant strains of bacteria... it's not the only way
bacteria exchange genes but it does happen.

Closer to home: the human genome contains a great many sequences which
are derived from retroviruses - by one estimate 5-9% of our DNA is
these sort of viral "left-overs".  Although none of these HERVs are
actually capable of independent replication (they're all badly damaged
by genetic drift), several of the HERV-derived genes are still intact
and active.  There's reason to believe that we, as humans, might not
exist if it were not for them: several of these HERVs play a role in
the formation of the human (more generally, mammal) placenta.

http://schaechter.asmblog.org/schaechter/2014/06/retroviruses-the-placenta-and-the-genomic-junk-drawer.html

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#446675

FromJohn Larkin <jjlarkinxyxy@highlandtechnology.com>
Date2017-02-07 12:03 -0800
Message-ID<4o9k9c57icf6k6d45qbpauoj5uol8f5hnu@4ax.com>
In reply to#446673
On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 11:30:09 -0800, dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave
Platt) wrote:

>In article <6vji9c9ghhj3mhs9odbllotts8m76f0hk5@4ax.com>,
>John Larkin  <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>
>>Most viruses are specific to one or a few species. So most species are
>>immune to most viruses. It would make sense that sub-species, namely
>>some individuals, would also be immune to classes of viruses. That
>>diversity keeps a species from being wiped out by one nasty virus.
>
>Yes, that's entirely plausible.  There are plenty of viral diseases
>which hit some people quite hard (up to and including lethality), but
>other people either have only mild symptoms or are entirely
>asymptomatic.  In some cases the difference can be pinned down to the
>effect of a single gene - the virus is able to spread effectively only
>in people with one specific allele, and not in others.
>
>>I wonder why every critter isn't immune to all viruses.
>
>Immunity to viruses (and bacteria, and rickettsia, and parasites) is
>always a tradeoff.  The immune system has to distinguish between
>"self", "non-harmful not-self", and "harmful not-self"
>molecules... mounting an attack against the latter category, and
>accepting the other two.  This isn't an easy distinction, and there
>are plenty of ways that the balance can go wrong one way or the
>other.  If the body is *too* prone to react, you get allergies
>(e.g. to peanuts) which can be quickly fatal, and you can also get
>auto-immune diseases (lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, rheumatic fever,
>Hashimoto's, Type 1 diabetes).
>
>In most cases (as I understand it) the body can't predictively "guess"
>which sorts of antigens mean "BAD - KILL IT WITH FIRE!".  Instead, the
>body has to wait until an initial infection occurs... take note of the
>fact that cells are dying and that they're exhibiting antigen X in the
>process... and then start manufacturing antibodies against antigen X
>to (1) cure the disease and (2) react immediately if antigen X shows up
>again in the future.  Hence, vaccination:  dose the body with a
>harmless dose of antigen X, plus (in many cases) something to
>stimulate the "This is harmful, KILL!" immune reaction.
>
>> Are viruses so clever?
>
>As to viruses being "clever" - I think it's more accurate to say
>"sloppy".  The virus gene-replication process can be rather
>error-prone, and errors during replication cause some of the next
>generation of viruses to be significantly different than the
>previous.  As everywhere, most of these mutations are either damaging
>or neutral.  In some cases, the mutated virus has "changed its coat"
>(i.e. its antigenic structure) enough to avoid recognition by
>antibodies that were effective against the "old" virus.
>
>> Or do viruses have a useful function, like horizontal
>>transmission of genes? Evolution works way better if there is
>>horizontal transmission.
>
>As to horizontal gene transmission:  you betcha!  Virus transmission
>of antibiotic-resistance genes plays a significant role in the
>development of resistant strains of bacteria... it's not the only way
>bacteria exchange genes but it does happen.
>
>Closer to home: the human genome contains a great many sequences which
>are derived from retroviruses - by one estimate 5-9% of our DNA is
>these sort of viral "left-overs".  Although none of these HERVs are
>actually capable of independent replication (they're all badly damaged
>by genetic drift), several of the HERV-derived genes are still intact
>and active.  There's reason to believe that we, as humans, might not
>exist if it were not for them: several of these HERVs play a role in
>the formation of the human (more generally, mammal) placenta.
>
>http://schaechter.asmblog.org/schaechter/2014/06/retroviruses-the-placenta-and-the-genomic-junk-drawer.html

It is creepy to think that we are each a walking collection of human
cells, viruses, mites, bacteria, fungi, parasites, symbiotes, jumbles
of other critters' DNA and RNA and proteins.

And clothing. Clothes are a major component of our evolution.



-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#446761

FromReinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com>
Date2017-02-08 18:22 +0800
Message-ID<o7erdi$skf$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#446675
AT Wednesday 08 February 2017 04:03, John Larkin wrote:

> On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 11:30:09 -0800, dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave
> Platt) wrote:
> 
>>In article <6vji9c9ghhj3mhs9odbllotts8m76f0hk5@4ax.com>,
>>John Larkin  <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Most viruses are specific to one or a few species. So most species are
>>>immune to most viruses. It would make sense that sub-species, namely
>>>some individuals, would also be immune to classes of viruses. That
>>>diversity keeps a species from being wiped out by one nasty virus.
>>
>>Yes, that's entirely plausible.  There are plenty of viral diseases
>>which hit some people quite hard (up to and including lethality), but
>>other people either have only mild symptoms or are entirely
>>asymptomatic.  In some cases the difference can be pinned down to the
>>effect of a single gene - the virus is able to spread effectively only
>>in people with one specific allele, and not in others.
>>
>>>I wonder why every critter isn't immune to all viruses.
>>
>>Immunity to viruses (and bacteria, and rickettsia, and parasites) is
>>always a tradeoff.  The immune system has to distinguish between
>>"self", "non-harmful not-self", and "harmful not-self"
>>molecules... mounting an attack against the latter category, and
>>accepting the other two.  This isn't an easy distinction, and there
>>are plenty of ways that the balance can go wrong one way or the
>>other.  If the body is *too* prone to react, you get allergies
>>(e.g. to peanuts) which can be quickly fatal, and you can also get
>>auto-immune diseases (lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, rheumatic fever,
>>Hashimoto's, Type 1 diabetes).
>>
>>In most cases (as I understand it) the body can't predictively "guess"
>>which sorts of antigens mean "BAD - KILL IT WITH FIRE!".  Instead, the
>>body has to wait until an initial infection occurs... take note of the
>>fact that cells are dying and that they're exhibiting antigen X in the
>>process... and then start manufacturing antibodies against antigen X
>>to (1) cure the disease and (2) react immediately if antigen X shows up
>>again in the future.  Hence, vaccination:  dose the body with a
>>harmless dose of antigen X, plus (in many cases) something to
>>stimulate the "This is harmful, KILL!" immune reaction.
>>
>>> Are viruses so clever?
>>
>>As to viruses being "clever" - I think it's more accurate to say
>>"sloppy".  The virus gene-replication process can be rather
>>error-prone, and errors during replication cause some of the next
>>generation of viruses to be significantly different than the
>>previous.  As everywhere, most of these mutations are either damaging
>>or neutral.  In some cases, the mutated virus has "changed its coat"
>>(i.e. its antigenic structure) enough to avoid recognition by
>>antibodies that were effective against the "old" virus.
>>
>>> Or do viruses have a useful function, like horizontal
>>>transmission of genes? Evolution works way better if there is
>>>horizontal transmission.
>>
>>As to horizontal gene transmission:  you betcha!  Virus transmission
>>of antibiotic-resistance genes plays a significant role in the
>>development of resistant strains of bacteria... it's not the only way
>>bacteria exchange genes but it does happen.
>>
>>Closer to home: the human genome contains a great many sequences which
>>are derived from retroviruses - by one estimate 5-9% of our DNA is
>>these sort of viral "left-overs".  Although none of these HERVs are
>>actually capable of independent replication (they're all badly damaged
>>by genetic drift), several of the HERV-derived genes are still intact
>>and active.  There's reason to believe that we, as humans, might not
>>exist if it were not for them: several of these HERVs play a role in
>>the formation of the human (more generally, mammal) placenta.
>>
>>http://schaechter.asmblog.org/schaechter/2014/06/retroviruses-the-
placenta-and-the-genomic-junk-drawer.html
> 
> It is creepy to think that we are each a walking collection of human
> cells, viruses, mites, bacteria, fungi, parasites, symbiotes, jumbles
> of other critters' DNA and RNA and proteins.
> 
> And clothing. Clothes are a major component of our evolution.

By cells count you consist of more foreign than you own cells.

-- 
Reinhardt

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#446762

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-08 05:23 -0500
Message-ID<o7erfb$16l$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#446761
On 2/8/2017 5:22 AM, Reinhardt Behm wrote:
> AT Wednesday 08 February 2017 04:03, John Larkin wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 11:30:09 -0800, dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave
>> Platt) wrote:
>>
>>> In article <6vji9c9ghhj3mhs9odbllotts8m76f0hk5@4ax.com>,
>>> John Larkin  <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Most viruses are specific to one or a few species. So most species are
>>>> immune to most viruses. It would make sense that sub-species, namely
>>>> some individuals, would also be immune to classes of viruses. That
>>>> diversity keeps a species from being wiped out by one nasty virus.
>>>
>>> Yes, that's entirely plausible.  There are plenty of viral diseases
>>> which hit some people quite hard (up to and including lethality), but
>>> other people either have only mild symptoms or are entirely
>>> asymptomatic.  In some cases the difference can be pinned down to the
>>> effect of a single gene - the virus is able to spread effectively only
>>> in people with one specific allele, and not in others.
>>>
>>>> I wonder why every critter isn't immune to all viruses.
>>>
>>> Immunity to viruses (and bacteria, and rickettsia, and parasites) is
>>> always a tradeoff.  The immune system has to distinguish between
>>> "self", "non-harmful not-self", and "harmful not-self"
>>> molecules... mounting an attack against the latter category, and
>>> accepting the other two.  This isn't an easy distinction, and there
>>> are plenty of ways that the balance can go wrong one way or the
>>> other.  If the body is *too* prone to react, you get allergies
>>> (e.g. to peanuts) which can be quickly fatal, and you can also get
>>> auto-immune diseases (lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, rheumatic fever,
>>> Hashimoto's, Type 1 diabetes).
>>>
>>> In most cases (as I understand it) the body can't predictively "guess"
>>> which sorts of antigens mean "BAD - KILL IT WITH FIRE!".  Instead, the
>>> body has to wait until an initial infection occurs... take note of the
>>> fact that cells are dying and that they're exhibiting antigen X in the
>>> process... and then start manufacturing antibodies against antigen X
>>> to (1) cure the disease and (2) react immediately if antigen X shows up
>>> again in the future.  Hence, vaccination:  dose the body with a
>>> harmless dose of antigen X, plus (in many cases) something to
>>> stimulate the "This is harmful, KILL!" immune reaction.
>>>
>>>> Are viruses so clever?
>>>
>>> As to viruses being "clever" - I think it's more accurate to say
>>> "sloppy".  The virus gene-replication process can be rather
>>> error-prone, and errors during replication cause some of the next
>>> generation of viruses to be significantly different than the
>>> previous.  As everywhere, most of these mutations are either damaging
>>> or neutral.  In some cases, the mutated virus has "changed its coat"
>>> (i.e. its antigenic structure) enough to avoid recognition by
>>> antibodies that were effective against the "old" virus.
>>>
>>>> Or do viruses have a useful function, like horizontal
>>>> transmission of genes? Evolution works way better if there is
>>>> horizontal transmission.
>>>
>>> As to horizontal gene transmission:  you betcha!  Virus transmission
>>> of antibiotic-resistance genes plays a significant role in the
>>> development of resistant strains of bacteria... it's not the only way
>>> bacteria exchange genes but it does happen.
>>>
>>> Closer to home: the human genome contains a great many sequences which
>>> are derived from retroviruses - by one estimate 5-9% of our DNA is
>>> these sort of viral "left-overs".  Although none of these HERVs are
>>> actually capable of independent replication (they're all badly damaged
>>> by genetic drift), several of the HERV-derived genes are still intact
>>> and active.  There's reason to believe that we, as humans, might not
>>> exist if it were not for them: several of these HERVs play a role in
>>> the formation of the human (more generally, mammal) placenta.
>>>
>>> http://schaechter.asmblog.org/schaechter/2014/06/retroviruses-the-
> placenta-and-the-genomic-junk-drawer.html
>>
>> It is creepy to think that we are each a walking collection of human
>> cells, viruses, mites, bacteria, fungi, parasites, symbiotes, jumbles
>> of other critters' DNA and RNA and proteins.
>>
>> And clothing. Clothes are a major component of our evolution.
>
> By cells count you consist of more foreign than you own cells.

Also quantity of different DNA.

-- 

Rick C

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