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Groups > rec.arts.sf.written > #490212 > unrolled thread
| Started by | The Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2018-04-13 21:44 -0700 |
| Last post | 2018-05-05 18:03 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 290 — 42 participants |
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Undeservedly famous The Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-13 21:44 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-13 23:30 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-14 03:44 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 10:16 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-14 21:40 +0300
Re: Undeservedly famous "artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-14 19:28 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2018-04-15 15:19 +1200
Re: Undeservedly famous "artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 09:10 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-15 20:11 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous The Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 00:37 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous The Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 00:38 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 08:43 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-04-16 13:53 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous The Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 20:32 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-16 22:21 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous The Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-21 01:39 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 17:26 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-14 23:35 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-14 18:44 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 23:03 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous The Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 00:35 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2018-04-15 16:21 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous nance@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) - 2018-04-15 23:39 +0000
Undeservedly famous Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 06:16 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-14 11:28 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 22:34 -0500
Re: Undeservedly famous Richard Hershberger <rrhersh@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 07:45 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-17 18:59 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2018-04-14 16:37 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-14 16:57 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-14 14:15 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-14 21:32 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-14 19:37 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 02:42 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-14 19:25 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 02:45 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-04-15 01:01 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-15 01:46 -0500
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 14:47 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous The Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 00:40 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 14:49 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 16:31 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-15 19:17 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 05:40 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 14:56 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 13:07 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2018-04-16 21:54 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 15:09 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 22:23 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 16:28 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Steve Dodds <sdodds@nova-optical.com> - 2018-04-14 13:26 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-14 21:36 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-14 19:36 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 02:46 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 22:38 -0500
Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-15 03:53 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 05:12 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-04-16 00:55 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-16 15:46 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 05:45 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 13:01 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-14 23:02 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 05:13 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 08:56 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 05:09 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 05:43 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2018-04-15 16:45 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous The Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 00:42 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 05:41 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 08:46 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous eichler2@comcastsucks.net (Bice) - 2018-04-16 13:05 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 13:19 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2018-04-16 19:31 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous The Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 20:29 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-14 19:30 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 22:49 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-14 23:17 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-15 01:49 -0500
Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 08:13 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 08:47 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-15 17:50 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 14:30 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 20:20 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 15:04 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-15 14:16 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 17:19 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 22:20 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 16:51 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 23:18 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 19:07 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-15 19:25 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 21:12 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2018-04-15 22:02 -0300
Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-15 22:15 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-16 17:07 +0300
Re: Undeservedly famous news{@bestley.co.uk (Mark Bestley) - 2018-04-16 15:25 +0100
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 14:39 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-16 09:04 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-16 10:29 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 11:32 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 21:54 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-16 17:50 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous The Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 20:33 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 14:19 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-16 12:35 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-16 09:02 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-16 20:56 +0300
Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-16 13:45 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 21:56 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous "nuny@bid.nes" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 19:16 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 05:33 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 21:00 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 05:36 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-16 01:03 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-17 22:59 -0500
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-18 13:37 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-18 19:09 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-18 19:45 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-18 21:15 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 16:11 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous "nuny@bid.nes" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 14:34 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 17:31 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-20 05:06 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous "nuny@bid.nes" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 22:41 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-20 08:41 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous "nuny@bid.nes" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2018-04-20 10:03 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-20 10:40 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-20 08:40 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Torbjorn Lindgren <tl@none.invalid> - 2018-04-18 20:04 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-21 01:17 -0500
Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-21 06:27 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-21 10:37 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-21 15:38 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-18 21:15 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-21 01:15 -0500
Re: Undeservedly famous "Michael R N Dolbear" <me@privacy.net> - 2018-04-18 22:26 +0100
Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-17 05:25 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-17 13:35 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-17 19:32 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 21:28 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 01:06 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 22:58 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-19 03:40 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-19 04:45 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-19 04:51 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 10:24 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 10:23 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-19 19:13 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 13:04 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-19 21:32 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 22:35 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 19:05 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 01:10 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 19:37 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous "nuny@bid.nes" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 19:24 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 04:54 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 16:04 -0500
Re: Undeservedly famous William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2018-04-20 13:34 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-21 01:26 -0500
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-21 15:37 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-21 10:03 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-21 17:07 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-21 19:12 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-21 12:34 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2018-04-21 23:13 +0200
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-21 21:18 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-21 15:19 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 16:03 -0500
Re: Undeservedly famous Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2018-04-20 22:02 -0300
Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 20:58 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 19:12 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 01:05 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-17 05:29 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-17 23:07 -0500
Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-19 21:36 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous Richard Hershberger <rrhersh@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 08:00 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-19 21:38 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-17 22:54 -0500
Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 22:59 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-21 01:10 -0500
Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-21 06:25 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-21 15:41 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-21 09:39 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-21 15:24 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 22:17 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Wolffan <akwolffan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 20:10 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 01:01 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 21:15 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 19:15 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 05:38 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous "Michael R N Dolbear" <me@privacy.net> - 2018-04-18 22:41 +0100
Re: Undeservedly famous Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-16 15:23 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2018-04-16 15:36 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 16:27 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 23:40 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 13:10 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-17 22:00 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 15:36 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-17 17:20 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Ninapenda Jibini <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 06:39 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 21:31 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-18 02:41 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Ninapenda Jibini <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 06:41 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-19 16:14 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 17:33 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2018-04-19 12:28 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 13:05 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-19 20:19 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2018-04-18 05:16 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2018-04-19 12:52 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 13:06 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2018-04-20 02:33 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-18 00:07 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Ninapenda Jibini <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 06:49 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous "artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-18 15:31 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 16:13 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 23:38 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-16 19:07 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-17 13:15 -0700
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| From | William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-16 13:01 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <4244cb50-7693-4c00-9c9d-c45901270a10@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #490274 |
On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 11:53:15 PM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote: > In article <pauhg5$c5q$2@dont-email.me>, > Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote: > >On 4/14/2018 4:36 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote: > >> In article <ofudnf_w2c9SyE_HnZ2dnUU7-W3NnZ2d@giganews.com>, > >> Steve Dodds <sdodds@nova-optical.com> wrote: > >>> On 4/13/2018 10:44 PM, The Zygon wrote: > >>>> I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is > >>> quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see > >>> what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people > >>> know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they > >>> think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them. > >>>> > >>>> One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is > >>> _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is > >>> _Fahrenheit 451_. > >>>> > >>>> I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this > >>> story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological > >>> debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, > >>> other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid > >>> them. > >>>> > >>>> But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others. > >>>> > >>> > >>> I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger > >>> in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept > >>> thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to > >>> get better any minuet now. > >> > >> My understanding is that Heinlein began _Stranger_ and then put > >> it aside for a while, figuring it wouldn't sell. And then picked > >> it up again a decade or so later, figuring that by now his name > >> could sell anything, including his laundry list. And > >> unfortunately, he was right. > >> > >> My opinion, as stated a couple-three times before: > >> > >>> It's easy to tell good from bad Heinlein: all you have to do is > >>> look at the copyright date. > >>> > >>> Anything before 1964 = good, except for _Stranger in a Strange > >>> Land,_ first third good, second two-thirds bad > >>> > >>> _Farnham's Freehold_, 1964 = bad > >>> > >>> _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_, 1966 = good > >>> > >>> Anything after 1966 = bad, bad, bad > > > >_Friday_ ??? > > > >_I Will Fear No Evil_ ??? was a scary prediction of the near future, > >brain transfer of the old into the young. > > > >Lynn > > > > > Just so you can calibrate: > Personally I loved TEFL; it's just not a novel. Much of it I really, really liked. Other parts, not at all. I must have liked it on the whole, as I've read it at least twice. _Friday_ was not bad though > it kind of ran out of steam iirc. I am a bit more negative on that. IWFNE I liked in parts, Really didn't like it in any parts. but I couldn't > really get past the fantasy aspect of the woman's mind remaing after her > brain had been swapped out. If I'm remembering that right. Been a while. So given that I'm a bit more negative on the books we have jointly read, some salt (or KCl, if you're like me) is recommended with the following: > > I've been saving _Job_ For me this was very much the best of his later books. I enjoyed it. But I haven' tried a reread. and _Cat_ One of the two worst of his late books, in my opinion. I'm not sure whether this or "To Sail..." takes the prize, but both were terrible. (and _The Door Into Summer_) Liked it very much as a teen, haven't reread it as a adult. William Hyde
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| From | David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-14 23:02 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <paumdq$3dp$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #490272 |
On 2018-04-14 9:38 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote: > On 4/14/2018 4:36 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote: >> In article <ofudnf_w2c9SyE_HnZ2dnUU7-W3NnZ2d@giganews.com>, >> Steve Dodds <sdodds@nova-optical.com> wrote: >>> On 4/13/2018 10:44 PM, The Zygon wrote: >>>> I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is >>> quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see >>> what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people >>> know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they >>> think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them. >>>> >>>> One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is >>> _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is >>> _Fahrenheit 451_. >>>> >>>> I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this >>> story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological >>> debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, >>> other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid >>> them. >>>> >>>> But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others. >>>> >>> >>> I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger >>> in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept >>> thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to >>> get better any minuet now. >> >> My understanding is that Heinlein began _Stranger_ and then put >> it aside for a while, figuring it wouldn't sell. And then picked >> it up again a decade or so later, figuring that by now his name >> could sell anything, including his laundry list. And >> unfortunately, he was right. >> >> My opinion, as stated a couple-three times before: >> >>> It's easy to tell good from bad Heinlein: all you have to do is >>> look at the copyright date. >>> >>> Anything before 1964 = good, except for _Stranger in a Strange >>> Land,_ first third good, second two-thirds bad >>> >>> _Farnham's Freehold_, 1964 = bad >>> >>> _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_, 1966 = good >>> >>> Anything after 1966 = bad, bad, bad > > _Friday_ ??? Could have used a plot. > > _I Will Fear No Evil_ ??? was a scary prediction of the near future, > brain transfer of the old into the young. > <snort> Wasn't written scary. The brain transplant was just an excuse for the old man to find out what it's like to catch instead of pitch.
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| From | djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-15 05:13 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <p77nu3.24zF@kithrup.com> |
| In reply to | #490281 |
In article <paumdq$3dp$1@gioia.aioe.org>, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote: >On 2018-04-14 9:38 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote: >> On 4/14/2018 4:36 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote: >>> In article <ofudnf_w2c9SyE_HnZ2dnUU7-W3NnZ2d@giganews.com>, >>> Steve Dodds <sdodds@nova-optical.com> wrote: >>>> On 4/13/2018 10:44 PM, The Zygon wrote: >>>>> I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is >>>> quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see >>>> what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people >>>> know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they >>>> think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them. >>>>> >>>>> One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is >>>> _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is >>>> _Fahrenheit 451_. >>>>> >>>>> I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this >>>> story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological >>>> debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, >>>> other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid >>>> them. >>>>> >>>>> But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger >>>> in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept >>>> thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to >>>> get better any minuet now. >>> >>> My understanding is that Heinlein began _Stranger_ and then put >>> it aside for a while, figuring it wouldn't sell. And then picked >>> it up again a decade or so later, figuring that by now his name >>> could sell anything, including his laundry list. And >>> unfortunately, he was right. >>> >>> My opinion, as stated a couple-three times before: >>> >>>> It's easy to tell good from bad Heinlein: all you have to do is >>>> look at the copyright date. >>>> >>>> Anything before 1964 = good, except for _Stranger in a Strange >>>> Land,_ first third good, second two-thirds bad >>>> >>>> _Farnham's Freehold_, 1964 = bad >>>> >>>> _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_, 1966 = good >>>> >>>> Anything after 1966 = bad, bad, bad >> >> _Friday_ ??? > >Could have used a plot. > >> >> _I Will Fear No Evil_ ??? was a scary prediction of the near future, >> brain transfer of the old into the young. >> > ><snort> Wasn't written scary. The brain transplant was just an excuse >for the old man to find out what it's like to catch instead of pitch. Yeah. Dirty old man gets him/herself pregnant. Yucch, p'uti, and also feh. -- Dorothy J. Heydt Vallejo, California djheydt at gmail dot com
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| From | David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-15 08:56 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <pavp7e$1ogk$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #490287 |
On 2018-04-14 11:13 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote: > In article <paumdq$3dp$1@gioia.aioe.org>, > David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote: >> On 2018-04-14 9:38 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote: >>> On 4/14/2018 4:36 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote: >>>> In article <ofudnf_w2c9SyE_HnZ2dnUU7-W3NnZ2d@giganews.com>, >>>> Steve Dodds <sdodds@nova-optical.com> wrote: >>>>> On 4/13/2018 10:44 PM, The Zygon wrote: >>>>>> I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is >>>>> quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see >>>>> what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people >>>>> know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they >>>>> think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them. >>>>>> >>>>>> One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is >>>>> _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is >>>>> _Fahrenheit 451_. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this >>>>> story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological >>>>> debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, >>>>> other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement.  I prefer to just avoid >>>>> them. >>>>>> >>>>>> But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>  I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger >>>>> in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept >>>>> thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to >>>>> get better any minuet now. >>>> >>>> My understanding is that Heinlein began _Stranger_ and then put >>>> it aside for a while, figuring it wouldn't sell. And then picked >>>> it up again a decade or so later, figuring that by now his name >>>> could sell anything, including his laundry list. And >>>> unfortunately, he was right. >>>> >>>> My opinion, as stated a couple-three times before: >>>> >>>>> It's easy to tell good from bad Heinlein: all you have to do is >>>>> look at the copyright date. >>>>> >>>>> Anything before 1964 = good, except for _Stranger in a Strange >>>>> Land,_ first third good, second two-thirds bad >>>>> >>>>> _Farnham's Freehold_, 1964 = bad >>>>> >>>>> _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_, 1966 = good >>>>> >>>>> Anything after 1966 = bad, bad, bad >>> >>> _Friday_ ??? >> >> Could have used a plot. >> >>> >>> _I Will Fear No Evil_ ??? was a scary prediction of the near future, >>> brain transfer of the old into the young. >>> >> >> <snort> Wasn't written scary. The brain transplant was just an excuse >> for the old man to find out what it's like to catch instead of pitch. > > Yeah. Dirty old man gets him/herself pregnant. Yucch, p'uti, and > also feh. > Yes, one of several works by him in which his protagonist gets his incest on. But even apart from that, not one of his better works.
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| From | djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-15 05:09 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <p77no4.24Kr@kithrup.com> |
| In reply to | #490272 |
In article <pauhg5$c5q$2@dont-email.me>, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote: >On 4/14/2018 4:36 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote: >> In article <ofudnf_w2c9SyE_HnZ2dnUU7-W3NnZ2d@giganews.com>, >> Steve Dodds <sdodds@nova-optical.com> wrote: >>> On 4/13/2018 10:44 PM, The Zygon wrote: >>>> I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is >>> quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see >>> what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people >>> know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they >>> think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them. >>>> >>>> One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is >>> _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is >>> _Fahrenheit 451_. >>>> >>>> I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this >>> story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological >>> debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, >>> other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid >>> them. >>>> >>>> But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others. >>>> >>> >>> I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger >>> in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept >>> thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to >>> get better any minuet now. >> >> My understanding is that Heinlein began _Stranger_ and then put >> it aside for a while, figuring it wouldn't sell. And then picked >> it up again a decade or so later, figuring that by now his name >> could sell anything, including his laundry list. And >> unfortunately, he was right. >> >> My opinion, as stated a couple-three times before: >> >>> It's easy to tell good from bad Heinlein: all you have to do is >>> look at the copyright date. >>> >>> Anything before 1964 = good, except for _Stranger in a Strange >>> Land,_ first third good, second two-thirds bad >>> >>> _Farnham's Freehold_, 1964 = bad >>> >>> _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_, 1966 = good >>> >>> Anything after 1966 = bad, bad, bad > >_Friday_ ??? Bad. >_I Will Fear No Evil_ ??? was a scary prediction of the near future, >brain transfer of the old into the young. Still bad. -- Dorothy J. Heydt Vallejo, California djheydt at gmail dot com
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| From | Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-15 05:43 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <fjgs7jFp2b7U4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #490272 |
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote: >> Steve Dodds <sdodds@nova-optical.com> wrote: >>> Anything after 1966 = bad, bad, bad > >_Friday_ ??? I liked Friday, except for the conclusion. It would work better for me if you tore out the last three pages or so and lamented that he never finished it. > >_I Will Fear No Evil_ ??? was a scary prediction of the near future, >brain transfer of the old into the young. I liked that one. -- We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
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| From | wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-15 16:45 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <pavvk0$oqd$2@grapevine.csail.mit.edu> |
| In reply to | #490314 |
In article <fjgs7jFp2b7U4@mid.individual.net>, Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> wrote: >Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> Steve Dodds <sdodds@nova-optical.com> wrote: > >>>> Anything after 1966 = bad, bad, bad >> >>_Friday_ ??? > >I liked Friday, except for the conclusion. It would work better for >me if you tore out the last three pages or so and lamented that he >never finished it. I liked FRIDAY when I first read it, ages ago, but I haven't felt the urge to reread it in at least two decades. Of course, it was the first Heinlein I ever read. (I found the paperback at a school book fair. Yes, with THAT cover. Don't know how that made it past the nuns.) -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can, wollman@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together." my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)
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| From | The Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-15 00:42 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <4c375716-42ec-498b-b608-deec2beae3f4@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #490246 |
On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 3:26:15 PM UTC-4, Steve Dodds wrote: > On 4/13/2018 10:44 PM, The Zygon wrote: > > I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them. > > > > One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_. > > > > I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid them. > > > > But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others. > > > > I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger > in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept > thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to > get better any minuet now. The think a liked best about the book, is that it is the first time I encountered the word "discorporation". For some reason, I love that word.
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| From | Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-15 05:41 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <fjgs3nFp2b7U3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #490246 |
Steve Dodds <sdodds@nova-optical.com> wrote: >On 4/13/2018 10:44 PM, The Zygon wrote: >> I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them. >> >> One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_. >> >> I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid them. >> >> But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others. >> > > I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger >in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept >thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to >get better any minuet now. Ditto. Even in the late Heinleins, I liked some of the stuff, but Stranger was just meh. -- We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
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| From | David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-15 08:46 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <pavojf$1n1b$2@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #490313 |
On 2018-04-15 5:41 AM, Greg Goss wrote: > Steve Dodds <sdodds@nova-optical.com> wrote: > >> On 4/13/2018 10:44 PM, The Zygon wrote: >>> I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, but which they think is crap. Or at minimum cannot see what is so great about the story or book. I suspect that many people know of just such stories or books, even authors whose body of work they think is quite undeserving of the praise heaped upon them. >>> >>> One author whose work I don't like and whose fame I don't quite get is _Spider Robinson_. And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_. >>> >>> I am not going to try to justify my feelings about this author or this story. I find such debates about aesthetics very similar to theological debates. A whole of feeling and a whole lot of talking past each other, other ending in hurt feelings and no agreement. I prefer to just avoid them. >>> >>> But I would like to hear of such stories, books or authors from others. >>> >> >> I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger >> in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept >> thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to >> get better any minuet now. > > Ditto. Even in the late Heinleins, I liked some of the stuff, but > Stranger was just meh. > I found SIASL thoroughly comprehensible and not as deep as it purported to be.
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| From | eichler2@comcastsucks.net (Bice) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-16 13:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <5ad49be1.366210984@localhost> |
| In reply to | #490246 |
On Sat, 14 Apr 2018 13:26:07 -0600, Steve Dodds <sdodds@nova-optical.com> wrote: >On 4/13/2018 10:44 PM, The Zygon wrote: >> I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, >> but which they think is crap. > > I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger >in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept >thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to >get better any minuet now. As part of my ongoing quest to read all the Hugo winners (just finished _The Wanderer_ and _This Immortal_ is up next), I've been reading a LOT of Heinlein over the last few months. Partly because it was cheaper to buy omnibus editions of some of the earlier books in order to get the Hugo winners. So in the last four or five months I've read Farmer in the Sky, Rocket Ship Galileo, Red Planet, Space Cadet, The Puppet Masters, Double Star, The Door into Summer, Starship Troopers and Stranger in a Strange Land. At this point I can confidently say that Heinlein falls into the "quite famous, everyone likes him, but I just don't get the appeal" camp. There were a couple that I thought were OK but for the most part I just didn't care for them and didn't think they were all that well written. Why did this guy won five Hugos? I'm wondering if maybe it's a generational thing - all his Hugo winners were written before I was born (1967). And I did like the first half of _Stranger_ better than most of his stuff, so maybe I'll like _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_ which is next on the list after _This Immortal_. -- Bob
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| From | djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-16 13:19 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <p7A4zx.1BKt@kithrup.com> |
| In reply to | #490441 |
In article <5ad49be1.366210984@localhost>, Bice <eichler2@comcastsucks.net> wrote: >On Sat, 14 Apr 2018 13:26:07 -0600, Steve Dodds ><sdodds@nova-optical.com> wrote: > >>On 4/13/2018 10:44 PM, The Zygon wrote: >>> I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is >quite famous, >>> but which they think is crap. >> >> I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger >>in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept >>thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to >>get better any minuet now. > >As part of my ongoing quest to read all the Hugo winners (just >finished _The Wanderer_ and _This Immortal_ is up next), I've been >reading a LOT of Heinlein over the last few months. Partly because it >was cheaper to buy omnibus editions of some of the earlier books in >order to get the Hugo winners. > >So in the last four or five months I've read Farmer in the Sky, Rocket >Ship Galileo, Red Planet, Space Cadet, The Puppet Masters, Double >Star, The Door into Summer, Starship Troopers and Stranger in a >Strange Land. > >At this point I can confidently say that Heinlein falls into the >"quite famous, everyone likes him, but I just don't get the appeal" >camp. There were a couple that I thought were OK but for the most >part I just didn't care for them and didn't think they were all that >well written. Why did this guy won five Hugos? > >I'm wondering if maybe it's a generational thing - all his Hugo >winners were written before I was born (1967). And I did like the >first half of _Stranger_ better than most of his stuff, so maybe I'll >like _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_ which is next on the list after >_This Immortal_. See my previous post on how to tell good from bad Heinlein by date. And also, YMMV. -- Dorothy J. Heydt Vallejo, California djheydt at gmail dot com
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| From | wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-16 19:31 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <pb2tm7$1k9u$1@grapevine.csail.mit.edu> |
| In reply to | #490441 |
In article <5ad49be1.366210984@localhost>,
Bice <eichler2@comcastsucks.net> wrote:
>At this point I can confidently say that Heinlein falls into the
>"quite famous, everyone likes him, but I just don't get the appeal"
>camp. There were a couple that I thought were OK but for the most
>part I just didn't care for them and didn't think they were all that
>well written. Why did this guy won five Hugos?
I'm going to sound like Captain Obvious here, but the point bears
making: because he wrote the sort of stuff that Worldcon members in
the 1950s and 1960s liked. Not to put too fine a point on it, but
Heinlein was nearly a generation older than many of his
contemporaries; they quite literally *grew up reading him*. When
Heinlein stopped writing short fiction around 1950 to concentrate on
his novels, he was only 43. (Heinlein was ten years older than Clarke
and twelve-and-a-half years older than Asimov.)
Look for a moment at the *other* authors on the novel ballot for the
years in which a Heinlein novel was nominated:
1956: EF Russell (b. 1905), Asimov (1920), Kornbluth (1923), Brackett (1915)
1959: Blish (winner, 1921), Anderson (1926), Budrys (1931), Sheckley (1928)
1960: Dickson (1923), Leinster (1896), Mark Phillips (= LM Janifer, 1933,
and RP Garrett, 1927), Vonnegut (1922)
1962: Daniel F. Galouye (1920), Harrison (1925), Simak (1904), James
White (1928)
1964: Simak (winner), Norton (1912), Herbert (1920), Vonnegut
1966: Herbert (co-winner), Zelazny (co-winner, 1937), Brunner (1934),
Doc Smith (1890)
1967: Delany (1942), Garrett, Keyes (1927), Schmitz (1911), TB Swann (1928)
1974: Clarke (winner, 1917), Niven (1938), Anderson, Gerrold (1944)
1983: Asimov (winner), Cherryh (1942), Clarke, Donald Kingsbury (1929),
Wolfe (1931)
1985: Gibson (winner, 1948), DR Palmer (1941), V Vinge (1944), Niven
Heinlein was on the ballot three times after his last win, and the
first two of those lost to another "Big Three" author. You can see
the generational turnover right in the list: Delany, 35 years younger,
was first on the ballot in the same year that Heinlein last won.[1]
The Nebulas don't have a long history in the relevant period, but it's
worth comparing who was short-listed alongside Heinlein:
1967: Delany, Keyes (co-winners)
1974: Clarke (winner), Pynchon, Gerrold, Anderson
1983: Michael Bishop (winner), Asimov, Aldiss, Wolfe, PKD
1985: Gibson (winner), Lewis Shiner, Niven, Jack Dann, KSR
-GAWollman
[1] Someone with a database could make the obvious table showing who
were the oldest and youngest people on the ballot for each year's
major genre awards. For all I know, maybe ISFDB has already done
this.
--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
wollman@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)
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| From | The Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-16 20:29 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <afb461a8-4608-40f9-9c87-4cbc0d8fe7d8@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #490441 |
On Monday, April 16, 2018 at 9:05:43 AM UTC-4, Bice wrote: > On Sat, 14 Apr 2018 13:26:07 -0600, Steve Dodds > <sdodds@nova-optical.com> wrote: > > >On 4/13/2018 10:44 PM, The Zygon wrote: > >> I suspect that everyone knows at least one story or book which is quite famous, > >> but which they think is crap. > > > > I love Robert Heinlein and have read everything he wrote, but Stranger > >in a strange land was incomprehensible, I would have quit but I kept > >thinking there's no way a Heinlein book can be this bad, it's going to > >get better any minuet now. > > As part of my ongoing quest to read all the Hugo winners (just > finished _The Wanderer_ and _This Immortal_ is up next), I've been > reading a LOT of Heinlein over the last few months. Partly because it > was cheaper to buy omnibus editions of some of the earlier books in > order to get the Hugo winners. > > So in the last four or five months I've read Farmer in the Sky, Rocket > Ship Galileo, Red Planet, Space Cadet, The Puppet Masters, Double > Star, The Door into Summer, Starship Troopers and Stranger in a > Strange Land. > > At this point I can confidently say that Heinlein falls into the > "quite famous, everyone likes him, but I just don't get the appeal" > camp. There were a couple that I thought were OK but for the most > part I just didn't care for them and didn't think they were all that > well written. Why did this guy won five Hugos? > > I'm wondering if maybe it's a generational thing - all his Hugo > winners were written before I was born (1967). And I did like the > first half of _Stranger_ better than most of his stuff, so maybe I'll > like _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_ which is next on the list after > _This Immortal_. > > -- Bob In Heinlein's later books, his characters yap interminably without seeming to advance the story very much. I don't put him in the undeservedly famous category. But I like less than half his books which I have read - and I have read less than half of his books.
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| From | Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-14 19:30 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <8318eac8-d917-424a-8ad3-fcdd063de66f@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #490212 |
On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 10:44:44 PM UTC-6, The Zygon wrote: > And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_. Ray Bradbury deserves to be famous on the basis of the merits of his body of work. He was one of the very few science-fiction authors who was consistently published in the "slicks" instead of the "pulps". While internal evidence from the work itself supports the author's claim that it was written to increase consciousness of the value of fine literature... instead of to stir up Cold War patriotism... given the anxieties produced by the Cold War, any book dealing with the dangers of a grim totalitarian future would be taken more seriously. Thus, for example, 1984 and Brave New World are very famous works. John Savard
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| From | J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-14 22:49 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <p9f5ddhunv4q81hff5jvfr481lvimg861v@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #490261 |
On Sat, 14 Apr 2018 19:30:09 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote: >On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 10:44:44 PM UTC-6, The Zygon wrote: >> And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_. > >Ray Bradbury deserves to be famous on the basis of the merits of his body of >work. > >He was one of the very few science-fiction authors who was consistently >published in the "slicks" instead of the "pulps". > >While internal evidence from the work itself supports the author's claim that it >was written to increase consciousness of the value of fine literature... instead >of to stir up Cold War patriotism... given the anxieties produced by the Cold >War, any book dealing with the dangers of a grim totalitarian future would be >taken more seriously. Thus, for example, 1984 and Brave New World are very >famous works. And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier entertainment, and loss of interest in reading. And both the left and the right extremes have books they don't want people to read.
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| From | David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-14 23:17 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <paun8q$4b5$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #490264 |
On 2018-04-14 8:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote: > On Sat, 14 Apr 2018 19:30:09 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc > <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote: > >> On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 10:44:44 PM UTC-6, The Zygon wrote: >>> And one story whose fame I don't quite get is _Fahrenheit 451_. >> >> Ray Bradbury deserves to be famous on the basis of the merits of his body of >> work. >> >> He was one of the very few science-fiction authors who was consistently >> published in the "slicks" instead of the "pulps". >> >> While internal evidence from the work itself supports the author's claim that it >> was written to increase consciousness of the value of fine literature... instead >> of to stir up Cold War patriotism... given the anxieties produced by the Cold >> War, any book dealing with the dangers of a grim totalitarian future would be >> taken more seriously. Thus, for example, 1984 and Brave New World are very >> famous works. > > And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger > televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier > entertainment, >and loss of interest in reading. *bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading. And both the left and > the right extremes have books they don't want people to read. > Same as it ever was.
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| From | David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-15 01:49 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <TtOdna32Yoaca0_HnZ2dnUU7-dednZ2d@earthlink.com> |
| In reply to | #490282 |
On 2018-04-15, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote: > On 2018-04-14 8:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote: >> And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger >> televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier >> entertainment, and loss of interest in reading. > > *bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading. Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper books, newspapers, and magazines. Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes -- \/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK> my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
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| From | J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-15 08:13 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <leg6dd94hmauhqigj7q7dc4tl0dnq309bu@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #490292 |
On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote: >On 2018-04-15, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote: >> On 2018-04-14 8:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote: >>> And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger >>> televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier >>> entertainment, and loss of interest in reading. >> >> *bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading. > >Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper >books, newspapers, and magazines. > >Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines?
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| From | David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-04-15 08:47 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <pavole$1n1b$3@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #490316 |
On 2018-04-15 6:13 AM, J. Clarke wrote: > On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 01:49:37 -0500, David DeLaney > <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote: > >> On 2018-04-15, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> On 2018-04-14 8:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote: >>>> And it seems we are heading in that direction, with bigger and bigger >>>> televisions with more and more channels of crappier and crappier >>>> entertainment, and loss of interest in reading. >>> >>> *bullshit*. There is no loss of interest in reading. >> >> Agreed; people just are doing it on their phones now, rather than in paper >> books, newspapers, and magazines. >> >> Dave, the which have declining circulation, yes > > Do you have statistics? And do you include newspapers and magazines? > http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/
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