Groups > rec.arts.sf.written > #452809 > unrolled thread

Was C. S. Lewis the first to say that colonising other planets would be immoral if they had native inhabitants?

Started by	Madawc Williams <madawcnow@gmail.com>
First post	2016-10-03 00:58 -0700
Last post	2016-10-05 08:46 +0000
Articles	19 on this page of 39 — 17 participants

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#452904

From	Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>
Date	2016-10-03 15:07 -0700
Message-ID	<56ac8301-8c45-4ff0-8269-8d987ebfee75@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#452900

On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 5:44:07 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote:
> On 10/3/2016 12:41 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> > On Monday, 3 October 2016 14:30:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt  wrote:
> >> In article <b1026922-f52d-4c06-8c6c-1d698ed11c71@googlegroups.com>,
> >> Madawc Williams  <madawcnow@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> He says this in "Out of the Silent Planet", published 1938. Two human
> >>> visitors to Mars seem to intend something like the European colonisation
> >>> of the rest of the world. The third, whom we are obviously supposed to
> >>> agree with, condemns it.
> >>
> >> Well, the first example of *that* idea that I know of is Wells's
> >> _The War of the Worlds._  Wells was an avowed Socialist and
> >> _TWotW_ was a way of saying, "Hey, Britain, how would you feel if
> >> it happened to *you*?"
> >
> > Hmm.  Wells also favoured eugenics: I'm not sure if
> > his Martians are represented as immoral, even though they
> > come - in a desperate struggle to survive the death of
> > their planet's ecology - as conquerors rather than guests.
> > And treat the impromptu human ambassadors /very/ badly.
> > But they have their own morality and they're more advanced
> > than us.  In the comics I think they drink our blood although
> > I think I didn't find that in the book.
> >
> 
> They inject human blood into themselves in the book although that may 
> have been an attempt to acquire immunity to Earth diseases rather than a 
> habitual diet.

DC Comics had some fun with "SUPERMAN: WAR OF THE WORLDS" 60 years
after the Mercury Theatre radio version.

http://www.comics.org/issue/61228/cover/4/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_War_of_the_Worlds

The Martians have to deal with the Man of Tomorrow, but at his
roughly 1938 power levels: about what John Carter had on Mars,
along with the bullet-proof schtick.

Roy Thomas wrote it, Michael Lark drew it, and the logo is even 
one based on a pre-Action Comics sketches of the embryonic Last 
Son of Krypton.

http://www.supermanartists.comics.org/superart/JOE_SHUSTER.htm

Kevin R

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#452922

From	djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Date	2016-10-04 00:49 +0000
Message-ID	<oEHzn8.8wC@kithrup.com>
In reply to	#452900

In article <nsujeo$ksm$1@dont-email.me>,
David Johnston  <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 10/3/2016 12:41 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>> On Monday, 3 October 2016 14:30:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt  wrote:
>>> In article <b1026922-f52d-4c06-8c6c-1d698ed11c71@googlegroups.com>,
>>> Madawc Williams  <madawcnow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> He says this in "Out of the Silent Planet", published 1938. Two human
>>>> visitors to Mars seem to intend something like the European colonisation
>>>> of the rest of the world. The third, whom we are obviously supposed to
>>>> agree with, condemns it.
>>>
>>> Well, the first example of *that* idea that I know of is Wells's
>>> _The War of the Worlds._  Wells was an avowed Socialist and
>>> _TWotW_ was a way of saying, "Hey, Britain, how would you feel if
>>> it happened to *you*?"
>>
>> Hmm.  Wells also favoured eugenics: I'm not sure if
>> his Martians are represented as immoral, even though they
>> come - in a desperate struggle to survive the death of
>> their planet's ecology - as conquerors rather than guests.
>> And treat the impromptu human ambassadors /very/ badly.
>> But they have their own morality and they're more advanced
>> than us.  In the comics I think they drink our blood although
>> I think I didn't find that in the book.
>>
>
>They inject human blood into themselves in the book although that may 
>have been an attempt to acquire immunity to Earth diseases rather than a 
>habitual diet.

Well, if that was it, it didn't work.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#452935

From	Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net>
Date	2016-10-04 00:45 -0400
Message-ID	<vrc6vbpjtbpt07rkh9ojf6jgbcujqi2v8a@reader80.eternal-september.org>
In reply to	#452922

On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 00:49:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>In article <nsujeo$ksm$1@dont-email.me>,
>David Johnston  <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>On 10/3/2016 12:41 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>> On Monday, 3 October 2016 14:30:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt  wrote:
>>>> In article <b1026922-f52d-4c06-8c6c-1d698ed11c71@googlegroups.com>,
>>>> Madawc Williams  <madawcnow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> He says this in "Out of the Silent Planet", published 1938. Two human
>>>>> visitors to Mars seem to intend something like the European colonisation
>>>>> of the rest of the world. The third, whom we are obviously supposed to
>>>>> agree with, condemns it.
>>>>
>>>> Well, the first example of *that* idea that I know of is Wells's
>>>> _The War of the Worlds._  Wells was an avowed Socialist and
>>>> _TWotW_ was a way of saying, "Hey, Britain, how would you feel if
>>>> it happened to *you*?"
>>>
>>> Hmm.  Wells also favoured eugenics: I'm not sure if
>>> his Martians are represented as immoral, even though they
>>> come - in a desperate struggle to survive the death of
>>> their planet's ecology - as conquerors rather than guests.
>>> And treat the impromptu human ambassadors /very/ badly.
>>> But they have their own morality and they're more advanced
>>> than us.  In the comics I think they drink our blood although
>>> I think I didn't find that in the book.
>>>
>>
>>They inject human blood into themselves in the book although that may 
>>have been an attempt to acquire immunity to Earth diseases rather than a 
>>habitual diet.
>
>Well, if that was it, it didn't work.

There is no evidence in the text that they knew microorganisms
existed; the narrator is pretty clear in Chapter Two that the Martians
are injecting blood as food.  (They have no digestive tract, and
obtain sustenance entirely by injection.)




-- 
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com

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#452937

From	Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com>
Date	2016-10-04 00:08 -0500
Message-ID	<XnsA697B956774Bmelchizedek@216.166.97.131>
In reply to	#452935

Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> wrote in
news:vrc6vbpjtbpt07rkh9ojf6jgbcujqi2v8a@reader80.eternal-september.org: 

> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 00:49:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> wrote:
> 
>>In article <nsujeo$ksm$1@dont-email.me>,
>>David Johnston  <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>On 10/3/2016 12:41 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>>> On Monday, 3 October 2016 14:30:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt  wrote:
>>>>> In article
>>>>> <b1026922-f52d-4c06-8c6c-1d698ed11c71@googlegroups.com>, Madawc
>>>>> Williams  <madawcnow@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>>>> He says this in "Out of the Silent Planet", published 1938. Two
>>>>>> human visitors to Mars seem to intend something like the European
>>>>>> colonisation of the rest of the world. The third, whom we are
>>>>>> obviously supposed to agree with, condemns it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, the first example of *that* idea that I know of is Wells's
>>>>> _The War of the Worlds._  Wells was an avowed Socialist and
>>>>> _TWotW_ was a way of saying, "Hey, Britain, how would you feel if
>>>>> it happened to *you*?"
>>>>
>>>> Hmm.  Wells also favoured eugenics: I'm not sure if
>>>> his Martians are represented as immoral, even though they
>>>> come - in a desperate struggle to survive the death of
>>>> their planet's ecology - as conquerors rather than guests.
>>>> And treat the impromptu human ambassadors /very/ badly.
>>>> But they have their own morality and they're more advanced
>>>> than us.  In the comics I think they drink our blood although
>>>> I think I didn't find that in the book.
>>>>
>>>
>>>They inject human blood into themselves in the book although that may
>>>have been an attempt to acquire immunity to Earth diseases rather
>>>than a habitual diet.
>>
>>Well, if that was it, it didn't work.
> 
> There is no evidence in the text that they knew microorganisms
> existed; the narrator is pretty clear in Chapter Two that the Martians
> are injecting blood as food.  (They have no digestive tract, and
> obtain sustenance entirely by injection.)

To be picky, its chapter 2 of Book 2, well into the story.
https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/www/warworlds/b2c2.html

pt

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#452938

From	Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net>
Date	2016-10-04 01:14 -0400
Message-ID	<ile6vblao80g3l4rquo37rbga2llrva34b@reader80.eternal-september.org>
In reply to	#452937

On Tue, 04 Oct 2016 00:08:13 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<treifamily@gmail.com> wrote:

>Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> wrote in
>news:vrc6vbpjtbpt07rkh9ojf6jgbcujqi2v8a@reader80.eternal-september.org: 
>
>> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 00:49:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> wrote:
>> 
>>>In article <nsujeo$ksm$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>David Johnston  <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>On 10/3/2016 12:41 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, 3 October 2016 14:30:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt  wrote:
>>>>>> In article
>>>>>> <b1026922-f52d-4c06-8c6c-1d698ed11c71@googlegroups.com>, Madawc
>>>>>> Williams  <madawcnow@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>>>>> He says this in "Out of the Silent Planet", published 1938. Two
>>>>>>> human visitors to Mars seem to intend something like the European
>>>>>>> colonisation of the rest of the world. The third, whom we are
>>>>>>> obviously supposed to agree with, condemns it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, the first example of *that* idea that I know of is Wells's
>>>>>> _The War of the Worlds._  Wells was an avowed Socialist and
>>>>>> _TWotW_ was a way of saying, "Hey, Britain, how would you feel if
>>>>>> it happened to *you*?"
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmm.  Wells also favoured eugenics: I'm not sure if
>>>>> his Martians are represented as immoral, even though they
>>>>> come - in a desperate struggle to survive the death of
>>>>> their planet's ecology - as conquerors rather than guests.
>>>>> And treat the impromptu human ambassadors /very/ badly.
>>>>> But they have their own morality and they're more advanced
>>>>> than us.  In the comics I think they drink our blood although
>>>>> I think I didn't find that in the book.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>They inject human blood into themselves in the book although that may
>>>>have been an attempt to acquire immunity to Earth diseases rather
>>>>than a habitual diet.
>>>
>>>Well, if that was it, it didn't work.
>> 
>> There is no evidence in the text that they knew microorganisms
>> existed; the narrator is pretty clear in Chapter Two that the Martians
>> are injecting blood as food.  (They have no digestive tract, and
>> obtain sustenance entirely by injection.)
>
>To be picky, its chapter 2 of Book 2, well into the story.
>https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/www/warworlds/b2c2.html

Right; sorry I wasn't more specific.




-- 
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com

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#452943

From	David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com>
Date	2016-10-04 02:58 -0600
Message-ID	<nsvquc$jm9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#452935

On 10/3/2016 10:45 PM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 00:49:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> wrote:
>
>> In article <nsujeo$ksm$1@dont-email.me>,
>> David Johnston  <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/3/2016 12:41 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>>> On Monday, 3 October 2016 14:30:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt  wrote:
>>>>> In article <b1026922-f52d-4c06-8c6c-1d698ed11c71@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>> Madawc Williams  <madawcnow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> He says this in "Out of the Silent Planet", published 1938. Two human
>>>>>> visitors to Mars seem to intend something like the European colonisation
>>>>>> of the rest of the world. The third, whom we are obviously supposed to
>>>>>> agree with, condemns it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, the first example of *that* idea that I know of is Wells's
>>>>> _The War of the Worlds._  Wells was an avowed Socialist and
>>>>> _TWotW_ was a way of saying, "Hey, Britain, how would you feel if
>>>>> it happened to *you*?"
>>>>
>>>> Hmm.  Wells also favoured eugenics: I'm not sure if
>>>> his Martians are represented as immoral, even though they
>>>> come - in a desperate struggle to survive the death of
>>>> their planet's ecology - as conquerors rather than guests.
>>>> And treat the impromptu human ambassadors /very/ badly.
>>>> But they have their own morality and they're more advanced
>>>> than us.  In the comics I think they drink our blood although
>>>> I think I didn't find that in the book.
>>>>
>>>
>>> They inject human blood into themselves in the book although that may
>>> have been an attempt to acquire immunity to Earth diseases rather than a
>>> habitual diet.
>>
>> Well, if that was it, it didn't work.
>
> There is no evidence in the text that they knew microorganisms
> existed; the narrator is pretty clear in Chapter Two that the Martians
> are injecting blood as food.  (They have no digestive tract, and
> obtain sustenance entirely by injection.)
>
>
>
>

I've no idea how the narrator would know that.

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#452956

From	Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net>
Date	2016-10-04 12:38 -0400
Message-ID	<8jm7vb53f3mibk3m4gnh61d57k5771lmhc@reader80.eternal-september.org>
In reply to	#452943

On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 02:58:17 -0600, David Johnston
<Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On 10/3/2016 10:45 PM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 00:49:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <nsujeo$ksm$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> David Johnston  <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 10/3/2016 12:41 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, 3 October 2016 14:30:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt  wrote:
>>>>>> In article <b1026922-f52d-4c06-8c6c-1d698ed11c71@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>>> Madawc Williams  <madawcnow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> He says this in "Out of the Silent Planet", published 1938. Two human
>>>>>>> visitors to Mars seem to intend something like the European colonisation
>>>>>>> of the rest of the world. The third, whom we are obviously supposed to
>>>>>>> agree with, condemns it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, the first example of *that* idea that I know of is Wells's
>>>>>> _The War of the Worlds._  Wells was an avowed Socialist and
>>>>>> _TWotW_ was a way of saying, "Hey, Britain, how would you feel if
>>>>>> it happened to *you*?"
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmm.  Wells also favoured eugenics: I'm not sure if
>>>>> his Martians are represented as immoral, even though they
>>>>> come - in a desperate struggle to survive the death of
>>>>> their planet's ecology - as conquerors rather than guests.
>>>>> And treat the impromptu human ambassadors /very/ badly.
>>>>> But they have their own morality and they're more advanced
>>>>> than us.  In the comics I think they drink our blood although
>>>>> I think I didn't find that in the book.
>>>>
>>>> They inject human blood into themselves in the book although that may
>>>> have been an attempt to acquire immunity to Earth diseases rather than a
>>>> habitual diet.
>>>
>>> Well, if that was it, it didn't work.
>>
>> There is no evidence in the text that they knew microorganisms
>> existed; the narrator is pretty clear in Part Two, Chapter Two that the Martians
>> are injecting blood as food.  (They have no digestive tract, and
>> obtain sustenance entirely by injection.)
>
>I've no idea how the narrator would know that.

From observation, and analysis after the eventual human victory.  The
story is told as "here's what happened to me during the war," and
includes flashforwards and "I didn't know it at the time, but..."
explanations.





-- 
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com

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#452978

From	Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com>
Date	2016-10-04 13:52 -0700
Message-ID	<52b5ad0c-72a9-480d-af28-1731bd5f044e@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#452956

On Tuesday, 4 October 2016 17:38:20 UTC+1, Lawrence Watt-Evans  wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 02:58:17 -0600, David Johnston
> <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >On 10/3/2016 10:45 PM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> >> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 00:49:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> In article <nsujeo$ksm$1@dont-email.me>,
> >>> David Johnston  <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 10/3/2016 12:41 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> >>>>> On Monday, 3 October 2016 14:30:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt  wrote:
> >>>>>> In article <b1026922-f52d-4c06-8c6c-1d698ed11c71@googlegroups.com>,
> >>>>>> Madawc Williams  <madawcnow@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> He says this in "Out of the Silent Planet", published 1938. Two human
> >>>>>>> visitors to Mars seem to intend something like the European colonisation
> >>>>>>> of the rest of the world. The third, whom we are obviously supposed to
> >>>>>>> agree with, condemns it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Well, the first example of *that* idea that I know of is Wells's
> >>>>>> _The War of the Worlds._  Wells was an avowed Socialist and
> >>>>>> _TWotW_ was a way of saying, "Hey, Britain, how would you feel if
> >>>>>> it happened to *you*?"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hmm.  Wells also favoured eugenics: I'm not sure if
> >>>>> his Martians are represented as immoral, even though they
> >>>>> come - in a desperate struggle to survive the death of
> >>>>> their planet's ecology - as conquerors rather than guests.
> >>>>> And treat the impromptu human ambassadors /very/ badly.
> >>>>> But they have their own morality and they're more advanced
> >>>>> than us.  In the comics I think they drink our blood although
> >>>>> I think I didn't find that in the book.
> >>>>
> >>>> They inject human blood into themselves in the book although that may
> >>>> have been an attempt to acquire immunity to Earth diseases rather than a
> >>>> habitual diet.
> >>>
> >>> Well, if that was it, it didn't work.
> >>
> >> There is no evidence in the text that they knew microorganisms
> >> existed; the narrator is pretty clear in Part Two, Chapter Two that the Martians
> >> are injecting blood as food.  (They have no digestive tract, and
> >> obtain sustenance entirely by injection.)
> >
> >I've no idea how the narrator would know that.
> 
> From observation, and analysis after the eventual human victory.  The
> story is told as "here's what happened to me during the war," and
> includes flashforwards and "I didn't know it at the time, but..."
> explanations.

I think he says at the start (which you can forget
while reading) that it's all over and there is a
Martian corpse on display in the British Museum.
And we aren't going to give it back.  We never do.

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#453002

From	djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Date	2016-10-05 00:02 +0000
Message-ID	<oEJs4A.3o9@kithrup.com>
In reply to	#452978

In article <52b5ad0c-72a9-480d-af28-1731bd5f044e@googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie  <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>On Tuesday, 4 October 2016 17:38:20 UTC+1, Lawrence Watt-Evans  wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 02:58:17 -0600, David Johnston
>> <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> >On 10/3/2016 10:45 PM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 00:49:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> In article <nsujeo$ksm$1@dont-email.me>,
>> >>> David Johnston  <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>>> On 10/3/2016 12:41 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>> >>>>> On Monday, 3 October 2016 14:30:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt  wrote:
>> >>>>>> In article <b1026922-f52d-4c06-8c6c-1d698ed11c71@googlegroups.com>,
>> >>>>>> Madawc Williams  <madawcnow@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>> He says this in "Out of the Silent Planet", published 1938. Two human
>> >>>>>>> visitors to Mars seem to intend something like the European
>colonisation
>> >>>>>>> of the rest of the world. The third, whom we are obviously supposed to
>> >>>>>>> agree with, condemns it.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Well, the first example of *that* idea that I know of is Wells's
>> >>>>>> _The War of the Worlds._  Wells was an avowed Socialist and
>> >>>>>> _TWotW_ was a way of saying, "Hey, Britain, how would you feel if
>> >>>>>> it happened to *you*?"
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hmm.  Wells also favoured eugenics: I'm not sure if
>> >>>>> his Martians are represented as immoral, even though they
>> >>>>> come - in a desperate struggle to survive the death of
>> >>>>> their planet's ecology - as conquerors rather than guests.
>> >>>>> And treat the impromptu human ambassadors /very/ badly.
>> >>>>> But they have their own morality and they're more advanced
>> >>>>> than us.  In the comics I think they drink our blood although
>> >>>>> I think I didn't find that in the book.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> They inject human blood into themselves in the book although that may
>> >>>> have been an attempt to acquire immunity to Earth diseases rather than a
>> >>>> habitual diet.
>> >>>
>> >>> Well, if that was it, it didn't work.
>> >>
>> >> There is no evidence in the text that they knew microorganisms
>> >> existed; the narrator is pretty clear in Part Two, Chapter Two that
>the Martians
>> >> are injecting blood as food.  (They have no digestive tract, and
>> >> obtain sustenance entirely by injection.)
>> >
>> >I've no idea how the narrator would know that.
>> 
>> From observation, and analysis after the eventual human victory.  The
>> story is told as "here's what happened to me during the war," and
>> includes flashforwards and "I didn't know it at the time, but..."
>> explanations.
>
>I think he says at the start (which you can forget
>while reading) that it's all over and there is a
>Martian corpse on display in the British Museum.
>And we aren't going to give it back.  We never do.

Well, if there are no live Martians left on Earth, and what with
Mars's hability declining (or did Wells ever say that?), there
may be no live Martians left on Mars either.  So who would we
give it back to?

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#453020

From	Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net>
Date	2016-10-05 00:49 -0400
Message-ID	<kc19vbh7jfd9b91lodjd6jkah0p25sv5bh@reader80.eternal-september.org>
In reply to	#453002

On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 00:02:34 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>In article <52b5ad0c-72a9-480d-af28-1731bd5f044e@googlegroups.com>,
>Robert Carnegie  <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>On Tuesday, 4 October 2016 17:38:20 UTC+1, Lawrence Watt-Evans  wrote:
>>> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 02:58:17 -0600, David Johnston
>>> <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> >On 10/3/2016 10:45 PM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>>> >> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 00:49:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> In article <nsujeo$ksm$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> >>> David Johnston  <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> >>>> On 10/3/2016 12:41 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>> >>>>> On Monday, 3 October 2016 14:30:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt  wrote:
>>> >>>>>> In article <b1026922-f52d-4c06-8c6c-1d698ed11c71@googlegroups.com>,
>>> >>>>>> Madawc Williams  <madawcnow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>> He says this in "Out of the Silent Planet", published 1938. Two human
>>> >>>>>>> visitors to Mars seem to intend something like the European
>>colonisation
>>> >>>>>>> of the rest of the world. The third, whom we are obviously supposed to
>>> >>>>>>> agree with, condemns it.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Well, the first example of *that* idea that I know of is Wells's
>>> >>>>>> _The War of the Worlds._  Wells was an avowed Socialist and
>>> >>>>>> _TWotW_ was a way of saying, "Hey, Britain, how would you feel if
>>> >>>>>> it happened to *you*?"
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Hmm.  Wells also favoured eugenics: I'm not sure if
>>> >>>>> his Martians are represented as immoral, even though they
>>> >>>>> come - in a desperate struggle to survive the death of
>>> >>>>> their planet's ecology - as conquerors rather than guests.
>>> >>>>> And treat the impromptu human ambassadors /very/ badly.
>>> >>>>> But they have their own morality and they're more advanced
>>> >>>>> than us.  In the comics I think they drink our blood although
>>> >>>>> I think I didn't find that in the book.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> They inject human blood into themselves in the book although that may
>>> >>>> have been an attempt to acquire immunity to Earth diseases rather than a
>>> >>>> habitual diet.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Well, if that was it, it didn't work.
>>> >>
>>> >> There is no evidence in the text that they knew microorganisms
>>> >> existed; the narrator is pretty clear in Part Two, Chapter Two that
>>the Martians
>>> >> are injecting blood as food.  (They have no digestive tract, and
>>> >> obtain sustenance entirely by injection.)
>>> >
>>> >I've no idea how the narrator would know that.
>>> 
>>> From observation, and analysis after the eventual human victory.  The
>>> story is told as "here's what happened to me during the war," and
>>> includes flashforwards and "I didn't know it at the time, but..."
>>> explanations.
>>
>>I think he says at the start (which you can forget
>>while reading) that it's all over and there is a
>>Martian corpse on display in the British Museum.
>>And we aren't going to give it back.  We never do.
>
>Well, if there are no live Martians left on Earth, and what with
>Mars's hability declining (or did Wells ever say that?), there
>may be no live Martians left on Mars either.  So who would we
>give it back to?

The narrator theorizes that Mars is dying, but by the end of the book
no one has either been there or successfully communicated with a
Martian about it, so that's little more than a guess.

Furthermore, the narrator ALSO theorizes, with somewhat more evidence
(though it's still skimpy), that the Martians are preparing Earth for
a wave of colonists that never comes, because the first two waves die
off before preparations are complete.  This would imply those
colonists are still back on Mars, waiting for the signal to launch.





-- 
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com

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#453021

From	ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>)
Date	2016-10-05 05:10 +0000
Message-ID	<e5jgaqF35gcU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#453020

In article <kc19vbh7jfd9b91lodjd6jkah0p25sv5bh@reader80.eternal-september.org>,
Lawrence Watt-Evans  <lwe@sff.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 00:02:34 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <52b5ad0c-72a9-480d-af28-1731bd5f044e@googlegroups.com>,
>>Robert Carnegie  <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>>On Tuesday, 4 October 2016 17:38:20 UTC+1, Lawrence Watt-Evans  wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 02:58:17 -0600, David Johnston
>>>> <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> >On 10/3/2016 10:45 PM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>>>> >> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 00:49:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> In article <nsujeo$ksm$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> >>> David Johnston  <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>> On 10/3/2016 12:41 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>>> >>>>> On Monday, 3 October 2016 14:30:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt  wrote:
>>>> >>>>>> In article <b1026922-f52d-4c06-8c6c-1d698ed11c71@googlegroups.com>,
>>>> >>>>>> Madawc Williams  <madawcnow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>> He says this in "Out of the Silent Planet", published 1938.
>Two human
>>>> >>>>>>> visitors to Mars seem to intend something like the European
>>>colonisation
>>>> >>>>>>> of the rest of the world. The third, whom we are obviously
>supposed to
>>>> >>>>>>> agree with, condemns it.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Well, the first example of *that* idea that I know of is Wells's
>>>> >>>>>> _The War of the Worlds._  Wells was an avowed Socialist and
>>>> >>>>>> _TWotW_ was a way of saying, "Hey, Britain, how would you feel if
>>>> >>>>>> it happened to *you*?"
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Hmm.  Wells also favoured eugenics: I'm not sure if
>>>> >>>>> his Martians are represented as immoral, even though they
>>>> >>>>> come - in a desperate struggle to survive the death of
>>>> >>>>> their planet's ecology - as conquerors rather than guests.
>>>> >>>>> And treat the impromptu human ambassadors /very/ badly.
>>>> >>>>> But they have their own morality and they're more advanced
>>>> >>>>> than us.  In the comics I think they drink our blood although
>>>> >>>>> I think I didn't find that in the book.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> They inject human blood into themselves in the book although that may
>>>> >>>> have been an attempt to acquire immunity to Earth diseases
>rather than a
>>>> >>>> habitual diet.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Well, if that was it, it didn't work.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> There is no evidence in the text that they knew microorganisms
>>>> >> existed; the narrator is pretty clear in Part Two, Chapter Two that
>>>the Martians
>>>> >> are injecting blood as food.  (They have no digestive tract, and
>>>> >> obtain sustenance entirely by injection.)
>>>> >
>>>> >I've no idea how the narrator would know that.
>>>> 
>>>> From observation, and analysis after the eventual human victory.  The
>>>> story is told as "here's what happened to me during the war," and
>>>> includes flashforwards and "I didn't know it at the time, but..."
>>>> explanations.
>>>
>>>I think he says at the start (which you can forget
>>>while reading) that it's all over and there is a
>>>Martian corpse on display in the British Museum.
>>>And we aren't going to give it back.  We never do.
>>
>>Well, if there are no live Martians left on Earth, and what with
>>Mars's hability declining (or did Wells ever say that?), there
>>may be no live Martians left on Mars either.  So who would we
>>give it back to?
>
>The narrator theorizes that Mars is dying, but by the end of the book
>no one has either been there or successfully communicated with a
>Martian about it, so that's little more than a guess.
>
>Furthermore, the narrator ALSO theorizes, with somewhat more evidence
>(though it's still skimpy), that the Martians are preparing Earth for
>a wave of colonists that never comes, because the first two waves die
>off before preparations are complete.  This would imply those
>colonists are still back on Mars, waiting for the signal to launch.
>

IIRC, George H. Smith posited that the second wave decided it would
be easier pickings to target another dimension (coincidentally the one
with his alternate Ireland :-) and described the result in _The Second
War Of The Worlds_.
-- 
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

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#453034

From	David Duffy <davidD@qimr.edu.au>
Date	2016-10-05 08:35 +0000
Message-ID	<nt2e13$1vu0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#453021

Ted Nolan <tednolan> <ted@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
> 
> IIRC, George H. Smith posited that the second wave decided it would
> be easier pickings to target another dimension (coincidentally the one
> with his alternate Ireland :-) and described the result in _The Second
> War Of The Worlds_.

Christopher Priest's _The Space Machine_ is good too.

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#453058

From	Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com>
Date	2016-10-05 11:11 -0700
Message-ID	<eccb6370-db83-4a10-b582-634bb55c8b3d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#453020

On Wednesday, 5 October 2016 05:49:49 UTC+1, Lawrence Watt-Evans  wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 00:02:34 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> wrote:
> 
> >In article <52b5ad0c-72a9-480d-af28-1731bd5f044e@googlegroups.com>,
> >Robert Carnegie  <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
> >>On Tuesday, 4 October 2016 17:38:20 UTC+1, Lawrence Watt-Evans  wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 02:58:17 -0600, David Johnston
> >>> <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> >On 10/3/2016 10:45 PM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> >>> >> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 00:49:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> >>> >> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> In article <nsujeo$ksm$1@dont-email.me>,
> >>> >>> David Johnston  <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> >>>> On 10/3/2016 12:41 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> >>> >>>>> On Monday, 3 October 2016 14:30:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt  wrote:
> >>> >>>>>> In article <b1026922-f52d-4c06-8c6c-1d698ed11c71@googlegroups.com>,
> >>> >>>>>> Madawc Williams  <madawcnow@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >>>>>>> He says this in "Out of the Silent Planet", published 1938. Two human
> >>> >>>>>>> visitors to Mars seem to intend something like the European
> >>colonisation
> >>> >>>>>>> of the rest of the world. The third, whom we are obviously supposed to
> >>> >>>>>>> agree with, condemns it.
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> Well, the first example of *that* idea that I know of is Wells's
> >>> >>>>>> _The War of the Worlds._  Wells was an avowed Socialist and
> >>> >>>>>> _TWotW_ was a way of saying, "Hey, Britain, how would you feel if
> >>> >>>>>> it happened to *you*?"
> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>>>> Hmm.  Wells also favoured eugenics: I'm not sure if
> >>> >>>>> his Martians are represented as immoral, even though they
> >>> >>>>> come - in a desperate struggle to survive the death of
> >>> >>>>> their planet's ecology - as conquerors rather than guests.
> >>> >>>>> And treat the impromptu human ambassadors /very/ badly.
> >>> >>>>> But they have their own morality and they're more advanced
> >>> >>>>> than us.  In the comics I think they drink our blood although
> >>> >>>>> I think I didn't find that in the book.
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> They inject human blood into themselves in the book although that may
> >>> >>>> have been an attempt to acquire immunity to Earth diseases rather than a
> >>> >>>> habitual diet.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Well, if that was it, it didn't work.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> There is no evidence in the text that they knew microorganisms
> >>> >> existed; the narrator is pretty clear in Part Two, Chapter Two that
> >>the Martians
> >>> >> are injecting blood as food.  (They have no digestive tract, and
> >>> >> obtain sustenance entirely by injection.)
> >>> >
> >>> >I've no idea how the narrator would know that.
> >>> 
> >>> From observation, and analysis after the eventual human victory.  The
> >>> story is told as "here's what happened to me during the war," and
> >>> includes flashforwards and "I didn't know it at the time, but..."
> >>> explanations.
> >>
> >>I think he says at the start (which you can forget
> >>while reading) that it's all over and there is a
> >>Martian corpse on display in the British Museum.
> >>And we aren't going to give it back.  We never do.
> >
> >Well, if there are no live Martians left on Earth, and what with
> >Mars's hability declining (or did Wells ever say that?), there
> >may be no live Martians left on Mars either.  So who would we
> >give it back to?
> 
> The narrator theorizes that Mars is dying, but by the end of the book
> no one has either been there or successfully communicated with a
> Martian about it, so that's little more than a guess.
> 
> Furthermore, the narrator ALSO theorizes, with somewhat more evidence
> (though it's still skimpy), that the Martians are preparing Earth for
> a wave of colonists that never comes, because the first two waves die
> off before preparations are complete.  This would imply those
> colonists are still back on Mars, waiting for the signal to launch.

In fact they are seen or suspected to be aiming 
their next shots at Venus - which probably is nicer
in the story than it is in real life.

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#453073

From	Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net>
Date	2016-10-05 15:53 -0400
Message-ID	<mhmavbpu706gs2qd3c90lp1kvf2fdomj60@reader80.eternal-september.org>
In reply to	#453058

On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 11:11:10 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, 5 October 2016 05:49:49 UTC+1, Lawrence Watt-Evans  wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 00:02:34 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >In article <52b5ad0c-72a9-480d-af28-1731bd5f044e@googlegroups.com>,
>> >Robert Carnegie  <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>> >>On Tuesday, 4 October 2016 17:38:20 UTC+1, Lawrence Watt-Evans  wrote:
>> >>> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 02:58:17 -0600, David Johnston
>> >>> <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>> 
>> >>> >On 10/3/2016 10:45 PM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>> >>> >> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 00:49:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>> >>> >> wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>> In article <nsujeo$ksm$1@dont-email.me>,
>> >>> >>> David Johnston  <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>> >>>> On 10/3/2016 12:41 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>> >>> >>>>> On Monday, 3 October 2016 14:30:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt  wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>> In article <b1026922-f52d-4c06-8c6c-1d698ed11c71@googlegroups.com>,
>> >>> >>>>>> Madawc Williams  <madawcnow@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>> He says this in "Out of the Silent Planet", published 1938. Two human
>> >>> >>>>>>> visitors to Mars seem to intend something like the European
>> >>colonisation
>> >>> >>>>>>> of the rest of the world. The third, whom we are obviously supposed to
>> >>> >>>>>>> agree with, condemns it.
>> >>> >>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>> Well, the first example of *that* idea that I know of is Wells's
>> >>> >>>>>> _The War of the Worlds._  Wells was an avowed Socialist and
>> >>> >>>>>> _TWotW_ was a way of saying, "Hey, Britain, how would you feel if
>> >>> >>>>>> it happened to *you*?"
>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>>>> Hmm.  Wells also favoured eugenics: I'm not sure if
>> >>> >>>>> his Martians are represented as immoral, even though they
>> >>> >>>>> come - in a desperate struggle to survive the death of
>> >>> >>>>> their planet's ecology - as conquerors rather than guests.
>> >>> >>>>> And treat the impromptu human ambassadors /very/ badly.
>> >>> >>>>> But they have their own morality and they're more advanced
>> >>> >>>>> than us.  In the comics I think they drink our blood although
>> >>> >>>>> I think I didn't find that in the book.
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> They inject human blood into themselves in the book although that may
>> >>> >>>> have been an attempt to acquire immunity to Earth diseases rather than a
>> >>> >>>> habitual diet.
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> Well, if that was it, it didn't work.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> There is no evidence in the text that they knew microorganisms
>> >>> >> existed; the narrator is pretty clear in Part Two, Chapter Two that
>> >>the Martians
>> >>> >> are injecting blood as food.  (They have no digestive tract, and
>> >>> >> obtain sustenance entirely by injection.)
>> >>> >
>> >>> >I've no idea how the narrator would know that.
>> >>> 
>> >>> From observation, and analysis after the eventual human victory.  The
>> >>> story is told as "here's what happened to me during the war," and
>> >>> includes flashforwards and "I didn't know it at the time, but..."
>> >>> explanations.
>> >>
>> >>I think he says at the start (which you can forget
>> >>while reading) that it's all over and there is a
>> >>Martian corpse on display in the British Museum.
>> >>And we aren't going to give it back.  We never do.
>> >
>> >Well, if there are no live Martians left on Earth, and what with
>> >Mars's hability declining (or did Wells ever say that?), there
>> >may be no live Martians left on Mars either.  So who would we
>> >give it back to?
>> 
>> The narrator theorizes that Mars is dying, but by the end of the book
>> no one has either been there or successfully communicated with a
>> Martian about it, so that's little more than a guess.
>> 
>> Furthermore, the narrator ALSO theorizes, with somewhat more evidence
>> (though it's still skimpy), that the Martians are preparing Earth for
>> a wave of colonists that never comes, because the first two waves die
>> off before preparations are complete.  This would imply those
>> colonists are still back on Mars, waiting for the signal to launch.
>
>In fact they are seen or suspected to be aiming 
>their next shots at Venus - which probably is nicer
>in the story than it is in real life.

I'd forgotten that, and missed it on my quick partial re-read; thanks!



-- 
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com

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#453196

From	Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com>
Date	2016-10-06 15:12 -0700
Message-ID	<a92b1f45-3f43-4f54-b499-b31830da1971@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#453020

On Wednesday, October 5, 2016 at 3:49:49 PM UTC+11, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 00:02:34 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> wrote:

<snip>

> >Well, if there are no live Martians left on Earth, and what with
> >Mars's hability declining (or did Wells ever say that?), there
> >may be no live Martians left on Mars either.  So who would we
> >give it back to?
> 
> The narrator theorizes that Mars is dying, but by the end of the book
> no one has either been there or successfully communicated with a
> Martian about it, so that's little more than a guess.
> 
> Furthermore, the narrator ALSO theorizes, with somewhat more evidence
> (though it's still skimpy), that the Martians are preparing Earth for
> a wave of colonists that never comes, because the first two waves die
> off before preparations are complete.  This would imply those
> colonists are still back on Mars, waiting for the signal to launch.

Hence the second epilogue to Jeff Wayne's musical version of TWOTW:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yua0KtmyFBQ

(starts at 2:47)

Pasadena Control: It's looking good. It's going good. We're getting great pictures here at NASA Control, Pasadena. The landing-craft touched down on Mars 28 kilometers from the aim-point. We're looking at a remarkable landscape, littered with different kinds of rocks - red, purple... How 'bout that, Bermuda?

Bermuda Control: Fantastic! Look at the dune-field.

Pasadena Control: Hey, wait. I'm getting a no-go signal. Now I'm losing one of the craft. Hey, Bermuda, you getting it?

Bermuda Control: No, I lost contact. There's a lot of dust blowing up there.

Pasadena Control: Now I've lost the second craft. We got problems.

Bermuda Control: All contact lost, Pasadena. Maybe the antenna's...

Pasadena Control: What's that flare? See it? A green flare, coming from Mars, kind of a green mist behind it. It's getting closer. You see it, Bermuda? Come in, Bermuda! Houston, come in! What's going on? Tracking station 43, Canberra, come in, Canberra! Tracking station 63, can you hear me, Madrid? Can anybody hear me? Come in, come in...

-Moriarty

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#453814

From	wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr)
Date	2016-10-13 22:41 -0400
Message-ID	<ntpgkk$15u$1@panix3.panix.com>
In reply to	#453196

In article <a92b1f45-3f43-4f54-b499-b31830da1971@googlegroups.com>,
Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> said:

> Hence the second epilogue to Jeff Wayne's musical version of
> TWOTW:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yua0KtmyFBQ
>
> (starts at 2:47)
>
> Pasadena Control: It's looking good. It's going good. We're
> getting great pictures here at NASA Control, Pasadena.  The
> landing-craft touched down on Mars 28 kilometers from the
> aim-point. We're looking at a remarkable landscape, littered with
> different kinds of rocks - red, purple... How 'bout that, Bermuda?
>
> Bermuda Control: Fantastic! Look at the dune-field.
>
> Pasadena Control: Hey, wait. I'm getting a no-go signal. Now I'm
> losing one of the craft. Hey, Bermuda, you getting it?
>
> Bermuda Control: No, I lost contact. There's a lot of dust blowing
> up there.
>
> Pasadena Control: Now I've lost the second craft. We got problems.
>
> Bermuda Control: All contact lost, Pasadena. Maybe the
> antenna's...
>
> Pasadena Control: What's that flare? See it? A green flare, coming
> from Mars, kind of a green mist behind it. It's getting
> closer. You see it, Bermuda? Come in, Bermuda! Houston, come in!
> What's going on? Tracking station 43, Canberra, come in, Canberra!
> Tracking station 63, can you hear me, Madrid? Can anybody hear me?
> Come in, come in...

That last bit seems to suggest faster-than-light travel. :-)

-- wds

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#453821

From	Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com>
Date	2016-10-13 20:46 -0700
Message-ID	<a122b4a5-2dc4-4a95-98d6-282796ddd158@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#453814

On Friday, 14 October 2016 03:41:26 UTC+1, William December Starr  wrote:
> In article <a92b1f45-3f43-4f54-b499-b31830da1971@googlegroups.com>,
> Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> said:
> 
> > Hence the second epilogue to Jeff Wayne's musical version of
> > TWOTW:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yua0KtmyFBQ
> >
> > (starts at 2:47)
> >
> > Pasadena Control: It's looking good. It's going good. We're
> > getting great pictures here at NASA Control, Pasadena.  The
> > landing-craft touched down on Mars 28 kilometers from the
> > aim-point. We're looking at a remarkable landscape, littered with
> > different kinds of rocks - red, purple... How 'bout that, Bermuda?
> >
> > Bermuda Control: Fantastic! Look at the dune-field.
> >
> > Pasadena Control: Hey, wait. I'm getting a no-go signal. Now I'm
> > losing one of the craft. Hey, Bermuda, you getting it?
> >
> > Bermuda Control: No, I lost contact. There's a lot of dust blowing
> > up there.
> >
> > Pasadena Control: Now I've lost the second craft. We got problems.
> >
> > Bermuda Control: All contact lost, Pasadena. Maybe the
> > antenna's...
> >
> > Pasadena Control: What's that flare? See it? A green flare, coming
> > from Mars, kind of a green mist behind it. It's getting
> > closer. You see it, Bermuda? Come in, Bermuda! Houston, come in!
> > What's going on? Tracking station 43, Canberra, come in, Canberra!
> > Tracking station 63, can you hear me, Madrid? Can anybody hear me?
> > Come in, come in...
> 
> That last bit seems to suggest faster-than-light travel. :-)

Nah, the Martian Mission Control just hotwired the
probe and used it to hack the Earth control stations
and shut them down.  I think it roughly corresponds 
to the real "Viking" probes to Mars.

Maybe "hack" with an interplanetary military laser
space death ray.

What the Martians do next though -

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#452980

From	Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
Date	2016-10-04 14:06 -0700
Message-ID	<1a461a5c-e275-4778-a06e-5c335b8d8f9e@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#452943

On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 2:58:08 AM UTC-6, David Johnston wrote:
> On 10/3/2016 10:45 PM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:

> > There is no evidence in the text that they knew microorganisms
> > existed; the narrator is pretty clear in Chapter Two that the Martians
> > are injecting blood as food.  (They have no digestive tract, and
> > obtain sustenance entirely by injection.)

> I've no idea how the narrator would know that.

After the end of the story in the book, no doubt the remains of the Martians 
were dissected...

John Savard

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#453036

From	David Duffy <davidD@qimr.edu.au>
Date	2016-10-05 08:46 +0000
Message-ID	<nt2eku$3ah$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#452809

Madawc Williams <madawcnow@gmail.com> wrote:
> He says this in "Out of the Silent Planet", published 1938. i
> Two human visitors to Mars seem to intend something
> like the European colonisation of the rest of the world. 
> The third, whom we are obviously supposed to
> agree with, condemns it.
> 

http://www.sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/prime_directive

mentions _Star Maker_ (1937)

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Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]

csiph-web

Was C. S. Lewis the first to say that colonising other planets would be immoral if they had native inhabitants?

Contents

#452904

#452922

#452935

#452937

#452938

#452943

#452956

#452978

#453002

#453020

#453021

#453034

#453058

#453073

#453196

#453814

#453821

#452980

#453036