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“Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield”

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  “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-06-24 17:54 -0500
    Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> - 2026-06-25 08:22 -0700
      Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2026-06-25 16:32 +0000
        Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2026-06-25 13:12 -0400
      Re: �Hegseth Hails First Test of America�s �Golden Dome� Missile Defense Shield� Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2026-06-25 09:57 -0700
        Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> - 2026-06-26 08:25 -0700
        Re_ Hegseth Hails First Test of America_s Golden Dome Missile Defense Shield quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-06-28 08:54 +0000
          Re: Re_ Hegseth Hails First Test of America_s Golden Dome Missile Defense Shield kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-06-28 08:37 -0400
            Re: Re_ Hegseth Hails First Test of America_s Golden Dome Missile Defense Shield Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2026-06-28 13:31 -0400
              Re: Re_ Hegseth Hails First Test of America_s Golden Dome Missile Defense Shield kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-06-28 21:12 -0400
            Re: Re_ Hegseth Hails First Test of America_s Golden Dome Missile Defense Shield quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-06-29 00:40 +0000
          Re: Re_ Hegseth Hails First Test of America_s Golden Dome Missile Defense Shield Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2026-06-28 13:27 -0400
          Re: Re_ Hegseth Hails First Test of America_s Golden Dome Missile Defense Shield Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-28 23:46 +0000
          Re: Re_ Hegseth Hails First Test of America_s Golden Dome Missile Defense Shield Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-28 23:51 +0000
            Re: Re_ Hegseth Hails First Test of America_s Golden Dome Missile Defense Shield quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-06-29 00:48 +0000
    Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 23:35 +0000
      Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-06-25 18:45 -0500
        Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-26 02:07 +0000
          Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-06-25 21:51 -0500
            Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-26 03:57 +0000
              Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-06-26 09:29 -0400
                Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-06-26 15:11 -0500
              Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-06-26 15:08 -0500
                Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-06-26 17:23 -0400
                Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-27 07:23 +0000
              Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Chris Thompson <the_thompsons@earthlink.net> - 2026-06-26 22:39 -0400
                Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-06-27 15:17 -0500
                  Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Chris Thompson <the_thompsons@earthlink.net> - 2026-06-28 01:10 -0400
                    Re: "Hegseth Hails First Test of America's "Golden Dome" Missile Defense Shield" Don <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-06-28 18:59 +0000
                      Re: "Hegseth Hails First Test of America's "Golden Dome" Missile Defense Shield" Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-28 23:29 +0000
                    Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 02:05 -0500
                      Re: Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-06-29 06:52 -0400
                        Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 15:17 -0500
                          Re: Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-30 01:20 +0000
                            Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” oldernow <oldernow@dev.null> - 2026-06-30 11:28 +0000
                            Re: Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-06-30 15:01 -0400
                              Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 15:20 -0400
                                Re: Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-30 20:51 +0000
                          Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-30 02:51 +0000
                      Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Chris Thompson <the_thompsons@earthlink.net> - 2026-06-29 23:50 -0400
                        Re: Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-30 14:12 +0000
                          Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> - 2026-06-30 08:11 -0700
                          Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 15:31 -0500
          Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-06-26 09:20 -0400
            Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-27 00:23 +0000
              Re: Hails First Test of Missile Defense Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-07-01 18:44 -0300
                Re: Hails First Test of Missile Defense kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-07-01 18:46 -0400
                  Re: Hails First Test of Missile Defense Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 18:23 -0500
                    Re: Hails First Test of Missile Defense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-01 23:54 +0000
                      Re: Hails First Test of Missile Defense kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-07-01 20:16 -0400
                        Re: Hails First Test of Missile Defense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-02 00:24 +0000
                      Re: Hails First Test of Missile Defense scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-07-02 14:54 +0000
                        Re: Hails First Test of Missile Defense Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> - 2026-07-02 08:29 -0700
                      Re: Hails First Test of Missile Defense quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-07-02 15:25 +0000
                        Re: Hails First Test of Missile Defense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-03 00:22 +0000
                          Re: Hails First Test of Missile Defense Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> - 2026-07-03 08:35 -0700
                            Re: Hails First Test of Missile Defense oldernow <oldernow@dev.null> - 2026-07-03 15:53 +0000
                            Re: Hails First Test of Missile Defense kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-07-03 12:28 -0400
                              Re: Hails First Test of Missile Defense Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> - 2026-07-04 08:37 -0700
                            Re: Hails First Test of Missile Defense Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2026-07-03 09:52 -0700
                            Re: Hails First Test of Missile Defense Don <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-07-07 15:26 +0000
                    Re: Hails First Test of Missile Defense kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-07-02 17:16 -0400
        Re: Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-26 14:33 +0000
          Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> - 2026-06-26 08:37 -0700
        Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-27 00:51 +0000
          Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-06-26 23:30 -0500
            Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-27 07:03 +0000
              Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-06-27 12:36 -0400
          Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2026-06-27 14:35 -0400
            Re: Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-06-27 16:31 -0400
            Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-27 23:12 +0000
              Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> - 2026-06-28 09:14 -0700
                Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-06-29 06:40 -0400
                  Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> - 2026-06-29 08:16 -0700
                  Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-29 22:33 +0000
                    the Cold War, was Missile Defense danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2026-06-29 22:43 +0000
                      Re: the Cold War, was Missile Defense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-30 02:55 +0000
                        Re: the Cold War, was Missile Defense danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2026-06-30 03:09 +0000
                          Re: the Cold War, was Missile Defense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-30 04:51 +0000
                          Re: the Cold War, was Missile Defense kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-06-30 09:04 -0400
                        Re: the Cold War, was Missile Defense kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-06-30 08:55 -0400
                          Re: the Cold War, was Missile Defense scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-30 14:08 +0000
                            Re: the Cold War, was Missile Defense Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> - 2026-06-30 08:34 -0700
                            Re: the Cold War, was Missile Defense William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 15:23 -0400
                              Re: the Cold War, was Missile Defense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-30 21:38 +0000
                          Re: the Cold War, was Missile Defense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-30 21:47 +0000
                            Re: the Cold War, was Missile Defense Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> - 2026-07-01 08:17 -0700
                              Re: the Cold War, was Missile Defense oldernow <oldernow@dev.null> - 2026-07-02 14:36 +0000
                                Re: the Cold War, was Missile Defense quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-07-02 15:38 +0000
                                  Re: the Cold War, was Missile Defense oldernow <oldernow@dev.null> - 2026-07-02 16:55 +0000
                            Re: the Cold War, was Missile Defense kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-07-01 12:28 -0400
                        Re: the Cold War, was Missile Defense quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-07-02 15:29 +0000
                          Re: the Cold War, was Missile Defense Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-03 00:25 +0000
              Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2026-06-28 13:58 -0400
                Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> - 2026-06-29 08:32 -0700
                  Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 15:51 -0400
                    Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-29 22:31 +0000
                      Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 12:13 -0400
                Re: Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-29 17:01 +0000
              Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Torbjorn Lindgren <tl@none.invalid> - 2026-06-28 18:44 +0000
            Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America ’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2026-06-28 10:11 -0400
          Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-27 18:39 +0000
      Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-26 14:27 +0000
        Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-06-26 23:31 -0500
          Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> - 2026-06-28 09:16 -0700
            Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 02:37 -0500
              Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> - 2026-06-29 08:35 -0700
                Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 15:41 -0500
                  Re: Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-30 01:21 +0000
                    Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” oldernow <oldernow@dev.null> - 2026-06-30 11:29 +0000
                      Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-06-30 09:10 -0400
                        Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” oldernow <oldernow@dev.null> - 2026-06-30 14:16 +0000
                  Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-30 02:57 +0000
                    Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 22:10 -0500
                      Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-30 04:54 +0000
                        Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 00:13 -0500
                          Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-30 07:36 +0000
                    Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-06-30 09:01 -0400
                      Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> - 2026-06-30 08:25 -0700
                  Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> - 2026-06-30 08:22 -0700
      Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> - 2026-06-26 08:29 -0700
        Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2026-06-26 12:00 -0400
          Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-27 00:31 +0000
        Re: “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense Shield” kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-06-26 16:25 -0400

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#658884 — Re: Hails First Test of Missile Defense

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

<snip>

> Because, with our usual proclivity for Strong Men and dictators, we
> set up a South Vietnamese government of French-speaking Roman Catholic
> Northerners and never really understood why they were unable to govern
> a country composed of Southern peasants who were Vietnamese-speaking
> Buddhists. And credited the Viet Minh with getting the French out.
>
> But then, to us they /all/ were "gooks".

Your suggested scenario seems fit for a low budget B-movie about the
"Nam" war. You share the typical self-serving anti-Catholicism of crony
capitalists who profit from colonialism:

    French officials built several pagodas for Vietnamese
    Buddhists to worship. What colonial officials saw as a
    simple and obvious act of accommodation to Vietnam’s
    majority religion, missionaries saw as an active effort
    to turn Vietnamese Catholics away from the Church.

<https://web.archive.org/web/20220819050955/https://encyclopedia.1914-1918-online.net/article/religious_missionaries_and_the_colonial_state_indochina>

The French state's anti-Catholicism ultimately failed. The thriving 
Vietnamese community at my parish is served by two itinerant Vietnamese 
priests, one of whom shuttles between my church and Vietnam. A monthly 
mass is celebrated in Vietnamese. The slim, silken haired, impeccably 
dressed women who attend are a Catholic's Catholic.

-- 
Don.......My cat's  )\._.,--....,'``.                     veritas    _|_
telltale tall tail /,   _.. \   _\  (`._ ,.               liberabit   |
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'              vos         |

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#658797 — Re: Hails First Test of Missile Defense

Lynn McGuire  <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>My uncle came back the next day with a full load of 500 lb bombs and 
>Stuka dived from 40,000 feet to the mountain top where the SA-2 missile 
>base was.  The SA-2 base could not fire the missiles straight up.  My 
>uncle thought that he took off the top ten feet of the mountain top 
>along with the missile base.

That's one of the things that has been improved in the newer tracking
radar systems.  They still are dependent on the C&C link to the ground
radar but now it's a 21st century radar.

I got to see one of the newer models at the 75th anniversary VE day
parade in Warsaw.  The lieutenant in charge spoke some English and 
thought it was hilarious that I used the NATO designators for everything.
He didn't laugh when I looked at the back and said "I never thought I'd
see THIS end of one of these" though.
--scott

-- 
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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#658628

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>On 6/25/2026 6:35 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 17:54:47 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> 
>>> “Hegseth Hails First Test of America’s “Golden Dome” Missile Defense
>>> Shield”
>> 
>> How much per missile? With “Iron Dome” it’s something like $100,000
>> per shot, as I recall. This to defend against barrages of cheap
>> attacking missiles that can be made for something like a thousand
>> dollars each.
>> 
>> And then there are the drones, which are even cheaper and cannot be
>> stopped with missile defence systems.
>
>Don't know what the missile cost is, definitely expensive to take out a 
>ballistic missile coming in at 15,000 mph.  Then again, the damage that 
>a nuclear ICBM will do is simply amazing.
>
>The F-18s are taking out drones routinely in Hormuz Straits.

At the cost of a million dollars per sidewinder, to kill a
500 dollar drone.    Seems like a good plan for the defense
industry, not so good for the taxpayer.

The Golden dome is frankly a ridiculous idea that would have
zero capability to stop a missile attack from a nuclear
armed adversary.


  "The proposed U.S. "Golden Dome" missile defense system
   would fail to stop a massive, coordinated attack because
   it can be overwhelmed by basic math, physical constraints,
   and deliberate enemy countermeasures. The shield's orbital
   mechanics and design limitations make large-scale defense
   practically impossible"

   Basic Saturation (The 11th Missile Problem): Because interceptor satellites are in constant motion, they cover limited windows of space. A single satellite can only engage so many targets simultaneously, meaning an adversary simply launching a larger volley of missiles (e.g., 11 Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles versus 10) can easily saturate and bypass the system. 
   Decoys and Countermeasures: Once a missile separates its warheads in space, defense systems must distinguish between real nuclear warheads, lighter decoys, and radar-reflecting balloons, all of which travel at the same speed in a vacuum. Swamping the sensors with hundreds of dummies easily defeats the shield. 
   Hypersonic Speed and Maneuverability: Systems like the Golden Dome were primarily designed for ballistic trajectories. They struggle immensely against next-generation hypersonic weapons that do not follow predictable paths and can maneuver inside or outside the atmosphere to evade detection and interception. 

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office warns that the shield is technically infeasible for full protection and remains highly vulnerable to comprehensive strikes. For an in-depth breakdown of the physics, scale, and strategic issues associated with the project, read the CSIS Analysis on Golden Dome or review the Science News Technical Obstacles. 

    Trump's 'Golden Dome' will cost $1.2tn and might not ... - BBC
    May 12, 2026 \u2014 Getty Images. US President Donald Trump's futuristic "Golden Dome" missile defence system will cost about $1.2 \u200btn (£882bn) to dev...
    BBC

We Might Regret Golden Dome's Greatest Ambition
Dec 11, 2025 \u2014 This limitation is inherent due to the mechanics of sub-orbital (i.e., outside the atmosphere, but not on a trajectory that would ...
War on the Rocks
Trump\u2019s \u2018Golden Dome\u2019 plan has a major obstacle: Physics
May 22, 2025 \u2014 \u201cOne should not mix apples and oranges,\u201d says physicist and aeronautics engineer Paul Dimotakis of Caltech, who was not involved w...
Science News

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#658631

On Fri, 26 Jun 2026 14:33:07 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>   Basic Saturation (The 11th Missile Problem): Because interceptor satellites are in constant motion, they cover limited windows of space. A single satellite can only engage so many targets simultaneously, meaning an adversary simply launching a larger volley of missiles (e.g., 11 Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles versus 10) can easily saturate and bypass the system. 

Didn't we lose a ship in one of the prior wars (Iraq II?) because the
radar/air defense for that class only covered 5/6 of a circle (leaving
a gap, IIRC, for comms)? All it took was 6 circling jets, firing as
one, for one of the missiles to land.
-- 
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

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#658652

On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:45:03 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> The F-18s are taking out drones routinely in Hormuz Straits.

Further thought about that: how much does it cost to operate an F-18?
$1000/hour? (I suspect more.) How much does it cost to make and launch
one of those drones? $1000?

So each F-18 should be taking out about one drone per hour to make it
a fair fight, economically speaking. Are they really doing that much?

I suspect not, if only because 🇮🇷 doesn’t actually need to be
launching drones all the time; just the mere threat that they might do
so requires those F-18s to be continually in the air, doing nothing
but consuming the Pentagon’s operating budget, just in case.

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#658655

On 6/26/2026 7:51 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:45:03 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> 
>> The F-18s are taking out drones routinely in Hormuz Straits.
> 
> Further thought about that: how much does it cost to operate an F-18?
> $1000/hour? (I suspect more.) How much does it cost to make and launch
> one of those drones? $1000?
> 
> So each F-18 should be taking out about one drone per hour to make it
> a fair fight, economically speaking. Are they really doing that much?
> 
> I suspect not, if only because 🇮🇷 doesn’t actually need to be
> launching drones all the time; just the mere threat that they might do
> so requires those F-18s to be continually in the air, doing nothing
> but consuming the Pentagon’s operating budget, just in case.

The drones that they have mentioned are not very small.  And they have 
enough of a heat signature for the F-18 missiles to take them out.  And 
they carry enough armament to do significant damage to very large ships 
or Apache helicopters as a kamikaze.  And they can be controlled from 
far away and can travel far away at high speeds, maybe 40 miles at 500 
mph (SWAG).  These are not cheap drones.

Lynn

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#658657

On Fri, 26 Jun 2026 23:30:11 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> On 6/26/2026 7:51 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:45:03 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>
>>> The F-18s are taking out drones routinely in Hormuz Straits.
>>
>> Further thought about that: how much does it cost to operate an
>> F-18? $1000/hour? (I suspect more.) How much does it cost to make
>> and launch one of those drones? $1000?
>>
>> So each F-18 should be taking out about one drone per hour to make
>> it a fair fight, economically speaking. Are they really doing that
>> much?
>>
>> I suspect not, if only because 🇮🇷 doesn’t actually need to be
>> launching drones all the time; just the mere threat that they might
>> do so requires those F-18s to be continually in the air, doing
>> nothing but consuming the Pentagon’s operating budget, just in
>> case.
>
> These are not cheap drones.

In military terms, drones are cheap and easy to make. Iran invented
the Shahid drone, which was such a clever design that the USA had to
copy it.

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#658660

Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=  <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>In military terms, drones are cheap and easy to make. Iran invented
>the Shahid drone, which was such a clever design that the USA had to
>copy it.

This is the open source weapons world!  Note that both Russia and Ukraine
have copied and expanded on the Shahid design.  The weed-eater motor is
ingenious as hell.
--scott
-- 
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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#658661

On 6/26/2026 8:51 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:45:03 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> 
>> The F-18s are taking out drones routinely in Hormuz Straits.
> 
> Further thought about that: how much does it cost to operate an F-18?
> $1000/hour? (I suspect more.) How much does it cost to make and launch
> one of those drones? $1000?
> 
> So each F-18 should be taking out about one drone per hour to make it
> a fair fight, economically speaking. Are they really doing that much?
> 
> I suspect not, if only because 🇮🇷 doesn’t actually need to be
> launching drones all the time; just the mere threat that they might do
> so requires those F-18s to be continually in the air, doing nothing
> but consuming the Pentagon’s operating budget, just in case.

You're not even close. The Official DoD Reimbursement Rate for
a single seat, F/A-18E Super Hornet is $17,584/hour.

That includes ground maintenance, fuel, crew compensation, and
some other operational costs. It does not include weapons.

pt

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#658665

Cryptoengineer  <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>You're not even close. The Official DoD Reimbursement Rate for
>a single seat, F/A-18E Super Hornet is $17,584/hour.
>
>That includes ground maintenance, fuel, crew compensation, and
>some other operational costs. It does not include weapons.

$1000/hr will get you a T-6 Texan though.  Or a Cessna Grand Caravan and
a half.
--scott
-- 
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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#658666

On Sat, 27 Jun 2026 14:35:19 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

> On 6/26/2026 8:51 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:45:03 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>
>>> The F-18s are taking out drones routinely in Hormuz Straits.
>>
>> Further thought about that: how much does it cost to operate an
>> F-18? $1000/hour? (I suspect more.)

> You're not even close. The Official DoD Reimbursement Rate for a
> single seat, F/A-18E Super Hornet is $17,584/hour.
>
> That includes ground maintenance, fuel, crew compensation, and
> some other operational costs. It does not include weapons.

I figured I was off, but not by that much ...

Clarke’s “Superiority” story *definitely* did not take this sort of
thing into account.

So every time they fire a missile, that’ll be another few grand being
totted up on the till, I suppose ...

>> How much does it cost to make and launch one of those drones?
>> $1000?

I suspect this figure of mine is not so far off.

>> So each F-18 should be taking out about one drone per hour to make it
>> a fair fight, economically speaking. Are they really doing that much?

So that would have to be 10-20 drones per hour. I doubt they are
anywhere close to that.

And if their anti-drone missiles cost more than the drones they are
shooting down (which seems very likely), then there is no way to make
this an economically fair fight: the more missiles the 🇺🇸 fighters
shoot down, the deeper in the red the whole account becomes.

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#658687

On Sat, 27 Jun 2026 23:12:31 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D´Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

<snippo interesting financial data>

>And if their anti-drone missiles cost more than the drones they are
>shooting down (which seems very likely), then there is no way to make
>this an economically fair fight: the more missiles the ?? fighters
>shoot down, the deeper in the red the whole account becomes.

Summary: War is Hell. Financially as well as in other ways.

And that is the character of the age: everything -- absolutely
everything must -- absolutely must -- be Bigger! Better! More
Expensive!

An optimist might think that careful consideration of this might lead
to war being abandoned as just plain too expensive.

Sadly, I am not that optimistic.
-- 
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

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#658715

Paul S Person  <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>And that is the character of the age: everything -- absolutely
>everything must -- absolutely must -- be Bigger! Better! More
>Expensive!
>
>An optimist might think that careful consideration of this might lead
>to war being abandoned as just plain too expensive.

It worked in the eighties.  We outspent the Soviets on the cold war until
they couldn't make their economy function.  Few shots were fired.
--scott

-- 
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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#658720

On Mon, 29 Jun 2026 06:40:12 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:

>Paul S Person  <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>And that is the character of the age: everything -- absolutely
>>everything must -- absolutely must -- be Bigger! Better! More
>>Expensive!
>>
>>An optimist might think that careful consideration of this might lead
>>to war being abandoned as just plain too expensive.
>
>It worked in the eighties.  We outspent the Soviets on the cold war until
>they couldn't make their economy function.  Few shots were fired.

But were we buying things that were Bigger! Better! More Expensive! or
just buying a lot more of the usual stuff?

And didn't computerization play a role here? By enabling samizdat
publishing using the networking to move the files everywhere and the
printers to print the docs out? Making it harder to control what
people knew and what they were thinking?

In the 1960s, one instructor asserted that, if the Soviet Union
continued down its current path, it would reach a point where nothing
whatsoever would actually be produced, transported, or purchased
because 100% of the population would be doing the paperwork required
for a Planned Economy.

Hence, I suspect, the move to computers, spurred by the "invention" of
the PC Clone.

But, yeah, they were dumb enough to try to keep up. Are we any
smarter?
-- 
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

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#658733

On Mon, 29 Jun 2026 06:40:12 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:

> It worked in the eighties. We outspent the Soviets on the cold war
> until they couldn't make their economy function. Few shots were
> fired.

It worked because both sides were thinking along the same lines in
terms of weapons doctrine: ICBMs, jet fighters, jet bombers, tanks,
aircraft carriers, submarines, all that kind of thing.

In other words, “symmetric warfare”.

Nowadays, “asymmetric warfare” is a whole new ball game.

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#658734 — the Cold War, was Missile Defense

In <111urr7$ltvk$5@dont-email.me> Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

>On Mon, 29 Jun 2026 06:40:12 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:

>> It worked in the eighties. We outspent the Soviets on the cold war
>> until they couldn't make their economy function. Few shots were
>> fired.

>It worked because both sides were thinking along the same lines in
>terms of weapons doctrine: ICBMs, jet fighters, jet bombers, tanks,
>aircraft carriers, submarines, all that kind of thing.

ob RASF:  The late Isaac Asimov wrote about one key
program the West used which I pretty much agree with.

One of the smartest and most cost effective (financially
and politically) actions was the IMMENSE amount of money
and resources pumped into West Berlin.

The East Germans were (aside from the privileged few)
living in pisspoor conditions, cold, little to eat,
broken down buildings, etc.

They'd look across the Wall to West Berlin and see
working streetlights, private cars, people walking
around at all hours, restuarants open overnight, and
even people dropping spare food on the sidewalks.
 

-- 
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
		     dannyb@panix.com 
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

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#658738 — Re: the Cold War, was Missile Defense

On Mon, 29 Jun 2026 22:43:43 -0000 (UTC), danny burstein wrote:

> One of the smartest and most cost effective (financially and
> politically) actions was the IMMENSE amount of money and resources
> pumped into West Berlin.
>
> The East Germans were (aside from the privileged few) living in
> pisspoor conditions, cold, little to eat, broken down buildings,
> etc.
>
> They'd look across the Wall to West Berlin and see working
> streetlights, private cars, people walking around at all hours,
> restuarants open overnight, and even people dropping spare food on
> the sidewalks.

The basic Triumph of Capitalism, certainly.

One area where that doesn’t work: healthcare. The world’s number-one
promoter of Capitalism, the USA, does a lousy job of looking after the
health of its citizens, compared to many other countries with more
“socialist”-style, shall we say, healthcare systems.

“Soft power” can work both ways ...

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#658740 — Re: the Cold War, was Missile Defense

In <111vb71$phcs$4@dont-email.me> Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

[snip]

>The basic Triumph of Capitalism, certainly.

>One area where that doesn’t work: healthcare. The world’s number-one
>promoter of Capitalism, the USA, does a lousy job of looking after the
>health of its citizens, compared to many other countries with more
>“socialist”-style, shall we say, healthcare systems.

>“Soft power” can work both ways ...

While there's certaiknly a lot of (arguable) validity to preferring,
maybe... the healthcare systems in Canada, a big chunk of Europe, and
lots of other places to the US, the only one who says Cuba is better
is... Micheal Moore...
-- 
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
		     dannyb@panix.com 
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

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#658744 — Re: the Cold War, was Missile Defense

On Tue, 30 Jun 2026 03:09:17 -0000 (UTC), danny burstein wrote:

> While there's certaiknly a lot of (arguable) validity to preferring,
> maybe... the healthcare systems in Canada, a big chunk of Europe,
> and lots of other places to the US ...

<https://arstechnica.com/health/2026/05/us-healthcare-still-stupidly-expensive-with-pathetic-outcomes-study-finds/>

> the only one who says Cuba is better is... Micheal Moore...

They have improved more than the US has:
<https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/cuba-demographics/#life-exp>
<https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/us-demographics/#life-exp>

What’s mainly holding them back isn’t their internal system, but US
sanctions.

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#658753 — Re: the Cold War, was Missile Defense

danny burstein  <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
>While there's certaiknly a lot of (arguable) validity to preferring,
>maybe... the healthcare systems in Canada, a big chunk of Europe, and
>lots of other places to the US, the only one who says Cuba is better
>is... Micheal Moore...

Cuba's healthcare system was probably the best in the Americas at one point,
and they had a huge number of highly trained doctors and a lot of medical
research going on.

It's certainly not anymore.  As the economy has collapsed, Cuba has exported
more and more of their medical people to other Spanish-speaking countries in
exchange for remittences.  But Cuban doctors are all over the place and they
are generally very good... they just aren't in Cuba anymore because Cuba 
can't afford them.
--scott
-- 
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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