Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > rec.arts.sf.written > #491225 > unrolled thread

Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology

Back to article view | Back to rec.arts.sf.written

Contents

  Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-28 13:01 -0600
    Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-04-29 12:24 +0000
      Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-04-29 14:35 -0400
        Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-29 12:41 -0600
        Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-29 13:05 -0700
        Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-29 14:08 -0700
          Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-29 14:28 -0700
            Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-04-29 21:47 +0000
        Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-29 20:51 +0000
          Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-29 14:23 -0700
            Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-29 17:48 -0400
            Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-29 16:08 -0600
              Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2018-04-30 14:21 +1200
            Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-30 03:46 -0500
              Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-30 06:52 -0700
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-30 14:12 +0000
                  Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-30 10:28 -0700
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-30 10:10 -0600
                  Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-30 16:24 +0000
                    Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-30 10:41 -0700
                      Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-30 12:27 -0600
                        Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-30 13:03 -0700
                        Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 15:46 -0700
                    Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2018-04-30 18:17 -0700
                      Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-30 21:01 -0700
                  Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-05-01 19:18 -0600
                    Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 22:25 -0400
                    Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-05-02 02:01 +0000
                      Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 03:07 -0400
                        Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-05-02 13:28 +0000
                          Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-05-02 07:45 -0700
                          Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-05-02 14:51 +0000
                            Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2018-05-09 00:04 -0300
                              Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-05-09 04:09 +0000
                            Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-06-04 00:06 +0000
                              Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-06-05 02:27 -0700
                                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-06-05 12:50 +0000
                                  Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-06-05 06:53 -0700
                                    Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-06-05 14:52 +0000
                                      Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-06-05 09:00 -0700
                                        Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-06-05 09:16 -0700
                                          Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-06-05 13:07 -0400
                                            Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-06-05 11:13 -0700
                                              Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-06-05 15:01 -0400
                                            Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-06-05 19:05 -0700
                                              Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Ninapenda Jibini <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-06-06 02:39 +0000
                                                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-06-06 02:30 -0400
                          Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 09:06 -0700
                            Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-05-02 09:30 -0700
                        Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 12:41 -0700
                          Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2018-05-02 20:33 +0000
                            Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Johnny1A <johnny1a.again@gmail.com> - 2018-05-16 22:06 -0700
                        Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-05-03 00:19 +0000
          Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 02:34 -0400
            Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 05:36 -0700
              Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-30 13:47 +0000
              Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 12:29 -0400
            Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-30 13:30 +0000
              Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-04-30 16:09 +0000
        Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-04-29 21:29 +0000
          Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 02:35 -0400
        Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-30 03:43 -0500
          Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-30 02:00 -0700
          Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 06:59 -0700
    Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-29 06:21 -0700
      Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-29 15:24 +0000
    Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-29 14:06 -0700

Page 1 of 4  [1] 2 3 4  Next page →

#491225 — Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology

Bradbury used to complain that people took Fahrenheit 451 as being about 
censorship when really it was about people abandoning reading for 
television.  The government can only start destroying the written word 
because the the public at large has already abandoned recreational 
reading.  The minority who still hang on to their love of reading are 
too small to stop it.

There were two other Bradbury stories I can recall which had the same 
thing of the government trying to limit the human mind by limiting the 
written word.  In Pillar of Fire in a bright shiny (ie. cold and 
soulless) science fiction future for reasons of "mental health" horror 
stories have all been banned and burned and cemeteries are being given 
the same treatment.  A reanimated corpse tries and fails to save his 
resting place and is burned while quoting Poe.  Note that the pillar of 
fire is both book and corpse burning and spaceflight.

Then there's The Exiles, where the characters of fantastic fiction who 
now exist on Mars because their books have once again been destroyed by 
a future culture that thinks that fantasy even as fiction can't co-exist 
with spaceships.  They vainly try to resist the arrival of the first 
astronauts who merely by setting foot on Mars will dispel the mystery of 
the planet and eradicate the fantasy entities living there.

Then there was the Ghostly Passenger where a "ghost" is dying because 
people don't believe in ghosts now.

And then there was The Murderer which was about addiction to 
communications technology...an update to F 451's "television is evil" 
them.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#491254

David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Bradbury used to complain that people took Fahrenheit 451 as being about
> censorship when really it was about people abandoning reading for
> television.  The government can only start destroying the written word
> because the the public at large has already abandoned recreational
> reading.  The minority who still hang on to their love of reading are
> too small to stop it.
>
> There were two other Bradbury stories I can recall which had the same
> thing of the government trying to limit the human mind by limiting the
> written word.  In Pillar of Fire in a bright shiny (ie. cold and
> soulless) science fiction future for reasons of "mental health" horror
> stories have all been banned and burned and cemeteries are being given
> the same treatment.  A reanimated corpse tries and fails to save his
> resting place and is burned while quoting Poe.  Note that the pillar of
> fire is both book and corpse burning and spaceflight.
>
> Then there's The Exiles, where the characters of fantastic fiction who
> now exist on Mars because their books have once again been destroyed by
> a future culture that thinks that fantasy even as fiction can't co-exist
> with spaceships.  They vainly try to resist the arrival of the first
> astronauts who merely by setting foot on Mars will dispel the mystery of
> the planet and eradicate the fantasy entities living there.
>
> Then there was the Ghostly Passenger where a "ghost" is dying because
> people don't believe in ghosts now.
>
> And then there was The Murderer which was about addiction to
> communications technology...an update to F 451's "television is evil"
> them.

You have an excellent memory for stories. It took a re-read for me to 
remember the book burning aspect to "The Exiles." That's the only story
that you mention, besides _Fahrenheit 451_, that's previously known to
me.
    "The Exile" enumerates some fantasy titles soon after it begins. 
Some were read by me, a few more were experienced as Hollywood 
treatments, and the remainder are unknown to me.
    
    _Tales of Mystery and Imagination_ (Poe)      unknown
    _Dracula_ (Stoker)                            treatment
    _Frankenstein_ (Shelley)                      known
    _The Turn of the Screw_ (James)               unknown
    _The Legend of Sleepy Hollow_ (Irving)        treatment
    _Rappaccini's Daughter_ (Hawthorne)           unknown
    _An Occurrence at Owl Bridge_ (Bierce)        known
    _Alice in Wonderland_ (Carroll)               known
    _The Willows_ (Blackwood)                     unknown
    _The Wizard of Oz_ (Baum)                     treatment
    _The Weird Shadow Over Innsmouth_ (Lovecraft) unknown

    Bradbury's one of my favorite authors, for good reason. He paints
pictures in my mind's eye. For instance, this sentence appears in
"The Exile:"

    The captain watched the planet Mars grow very large in space.

    Now, planets don't grow in the biological sense. Instead they 
accrete at a geological pace. It's far too slow for one human to witness
planetary growth in a period of hours. Anyhow, Bradbury's sentence 
paints a vivid picture in my mind.
    Orwell likes language that uses an active voice to paint a clear 
picture and leave a vivid impression behind. On the other hand, he 
believes that political speech and writing use lifeless, colorless, 
vague, third person passive language to try to defend the indefensible.
[1] Orwell also encourages the use of new metaphor. 
    "De Motu" (Berkeley) [2] discourages the use of metaphor in
philosophic writing. Watching Mars grow has no place in philosophic
argument because it leads readers to erroneously biomorphize the planet.
 
Note.

1. http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit/
2. ISBN 0460873431

♂

Thank you,

-- 
Don

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#491277

On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 12:24:03 -0000 (UTC), D B Davis <g@crcomp.net>
wrote:

>    "The Exile" enumerates some fantasy titles soon after it begins. 
>Some were read by me, a few more were experienced as Hollywood 
>treatments, and the remainder are unknown to me.
>    
>    _Tales of Mystery and Imagination_ (Poe)      unknown

Collection that includes most of his most famous short stories.
Definitely worth a read, especially if you like Bradbury.

>    _Dracula_ (Stoker)                            treatment

Doesn't much resemble the novel.

>    _Frankenstein_ (Shelley)                      known
>    _The Turn of the Screw_ (James)               unknown

Short novel, a ghost story where it's not clear whether the ghosts are
real or the nursemaid is nuts.  Doesn't suck.

>    _The Legend of Sleepy Hollow_ (Irving)        treatment

Again, doesn't much resemble the original story.

>    _Rappaccini's Daughter_ (Hawthorne)           unknown

Short story.  I loved it, but not everyone does.

>    _An Occurrence at Owl Bridge_ (Bierce)        known

Overrated, in my opinion.  "Twilight Zone" did a surprisingly faithful
adaptation way back when.

>    _Alice in Wonderland_ (Carroll)               known
>    _The Willows_ (Blackwood)                     unknown

Okay, finally one I haven't read.

>    _The Wizard of Oz_ (Baum)                     treatment

Some of the movie is faithful to the book, some isn't -- and the movie
completely skips roughly one-third of the story.

>    _The Weird Shadow Over Innsmouth_ (Lovecraft) unknown

I think it's just "The Shadow Over Innsmouth," no "Weird" in the
title.  I read it, but a long time ago when bingeing on Lovecraft so
I'm not sure whether I'm confusing it with other HPL stories.




-- 
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Stone Unturned:  A Legend of Ethshar.
See http://www.ethshar.com/StoneUnturned.shtml

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#491278

On 2018-04-29 12:35 PM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 12:24:03 -0000 (UTC), D B Davis <g@crcomp.net>
> wrote:
> 
>>     "The Exile" enumerates some fantasy titles soon after it begins.
>> Some were read by me, a few more were experienced as Hollywood
>> treatments, and the remainder are unknown to me.
>>     
>>     _Tales of Mystery and Imagination_ (Poe)      unknown
> 
> Collection that includes most of his most famous short stories.
> Definitely worth a read, especially if you like Bradbury.
> 
>>     _Dracula_ (Stoker)                            treatment
> 
> Doesn't much resemble the novel.
> 
>>     _Frankenstein_ (Shelley)                      known
>>     _The Turn of the Screw_ (James)               unknown
> 
> Short novel, a ghost story where it's not clear whether the ghosts are
> real or the nursemaid is nuts.  Doesn't suck.
> 
>>     _The Legend of Sleepy Hollow_ (Irving)        treatment
> 
> Again, doesn't much resemble the original story.
> 
>>     _Rappaccini's Daughter_ (Hawthorne)           unknown
> 
> Short story.  I loved it, but not everyone does.
> 
>>     _An Occurrence at Owl Bridge_ (Bierce)        known
> 
> Overrated, in my opinion.  "Twilight Zone" did a surprisingly faithful
> adaptation way back when.
> 
>>     _Alice in Wonderland_ (Carroll)               known
>>     _The Willows_ (Blackwood)                     unknown
> 
> Okay, finally one I haven't read.
> 
>>     _The Wizard of Oz_ (Baum)                     treatment
> 
> Some of the movie is faithful to the book, some isn't -- and the movie
> completely skips roughly one-third of the story.
> 
>>     _The Weird Shadow Over Innsmouth_ (Lovecraft) unknown
> 
> I think it's just "The Shadow Over Innsmouth," no "Weird" in the
> title.  I read it, but a long time ago when bingeing on Lovecraft so
> I'm not sure whether I'm confusing it with other HPL stories.

The Shadow Over Innsmouth is the one where because there's a small town 
full of people of mixed ancestry, the United States government decides 
to do some ethnic cleansing.  Poor Kermit.


> 
> 
> 
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#491280

Indeed, although it was no doubt published in Weird Tales. But if 
we're going around correcting titles, what about 'An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge'?

Immortalized by Tom Jones as "The Green, Green Grass of Home", of course.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#491285

On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 12:35:03 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:

> I think it's just "The Shadow Over Innsmouth," no "Weird" in the
> title.  I read it, but a long time ago when bingeing on Lovecraft so
> I'm not sure whether I'm confusing it with other HPL stories.

You're quite correct, but you missed "An Occurrence at Owl _Creek_ Bridge".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u81CTfbc99c

John Savard

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#491288

On Sunday, 29 April 2018 22:08:46 UTC+1, Quadibloc  wrote:
> On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 12:35:03 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> 
> > I think it's just "The Shadow Over Innsmouth," no "Weird" in the
> > title.  I read it, but a long time ago when bingeing on Lovecraft so
> > I'm not sure whether I'm confusing it with other HPL stories.
> 
> You're quite correct, but you missed "An Occurrence at Owl _Creek_ Bridge".
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u81CTfbc99c
> 
> John Savard

_Alice's Adventures in Wonderland_ and 
_The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_ are the respctive
book titles.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#491291

Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, 29 April 2018 22:08:46 UTC+1, Quadibloc  wrote:
>> On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 12:35:03 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:   
>>   
>> > I think it's just "The Shadow Over Innsmouth," no "Weird" in the
>> > title.  I read it, but a long time ago when bingeing on Lovecraft so
>> > I'm not sure whether I'm confusing it with other HPL stories.
>>
>> You're quite correct, but you missed "An Occurrence at Owl _Creek_ Bridge".
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u81CTfbc99c
>>
>> John Savard
>
> _Alice's Adventures in Wonderland_ and
> _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_ are the respctive
> book titles.

_An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge_ is a typo on my part. It's hard to
transcribe a paperback in fine condition when it keeps wanting to close
on you and you won't put a spine breaker weight on it.
    The other three titles, _Alice in Wonderland_, _The Wizard of Oz_,
and _The Weird Shadow Over Innsmouth_, were accurately transcribed from
page 96-97 of my MMPB Bradbury. Unfortunately, it's a little late to ask
Bradbury WTF? ♡♢♤♧

Thank you,

-- 
Don

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#491286

In article <2n3ced18k3g0dsgi60a9vfctvs1u5do83e@reader80.eternal-september.org>,
Lawrence Watt-Evans  <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 12:24:03 -0000 (UTC), D B Davis <g@crcomp.net>
>wrote:
>
>
>>    _The Turn of the Screw_ (James)               unknown
>
>Short novel, a ghost story where it's not clear whether the ghosts are
>real or the nursemaid is nuts.  Doesn't suck.

No, but I was seriously disappointed by the introduction (which I
read first) to the edition I got hold of.  The introducer went on
and on about how terrifying it was, how he had lain awake night
after night thinking about it and shivering, till finally it
dawned on him -- he said -- that he was *not* alone, that
hundreds of other people had been just as terrified by it as he
had been.

Well ... with an introduction like that, almost anything is going
to fall flat.  And I had been reading science fiction since I was
a young child.  I was not impressed.

Benjamin Britten made an opera out of it, which is ... well, I
judge it better than the book, though it's not the best opera I
ever heard.  It's full of schoolboy rhymes designed for
memorizing Latin grammar.
>
>>    _An Occurrence at Owl Bridge_ (Bierce)        known
>
>Overrated, in my opinion.  "Twilight Zone" did a surprisingly faithful
>adaptation way back when.

I wonder if that's the one I saw, not on the tube but in a
theater.  Black and white, about half an hour long?

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#491287

On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 3:15:07 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> Well ... with an introduction like that, almost anything is going
> to fall flat.

I remember holding off on reading my first Lovecraft work, "At the Mountains of 
Madness" because of warnings I was putting my sanity at risk. In fact, of course, 
Lovecraft telegraphs his punches far too much to be successful at terrifying his 
readers - his strengths, which have made him a cult favorite, lie elsewhere; 
specifically, in the breadth of his imagination.

John Savard

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#491292

On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 14:23:33 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 3:15:07 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>> Well ... with an introduction like that, almost anything is going
>> to fall flat.
>
>I remember holding off on reading my first Lovecraft work, "At the Mountains of 
>Madness" because of warnings I was putting my sanity at risk. In fact, of course, 
>Lovecraft telegraphs his punches far too much to be successful at terrifying his 
>readers - his strengths, which have made him a cult favorite, lie elsewhere; 
>specifically, in the breadth of his imagination.

A lot of lit-her-a-tour that is supposed to scare me falls pretty
flat.  I suspect that watching a bunch of '50s schlock horror in the
wee hours of Saturday morning had a lot to do with that, and the film
industry has upped the ante considerably since then.  Not to mention
gaming.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#491296

On 2018-04-29 3:23 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 3:15:07 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> 
>> Well ... with an introduction like that, almost anything is going
>> to fall flat.
> 
> I remember holding off on reading my first Lovecraft work, "At the Mountains of
> Madness" because of warnings I was putting my sanity at risk. 

...that's absurd.  Even when dealing with one of the actually somewhat 
disturbing Lovecraft stories...which that one wasn't since it was a late 
Lovecraft story where he was drifting out of horror and into science 
fiction.  In fact no story could be more didactic and detached than At 
The Mountains of Madness.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#491304

On 30/04/18 10:08, David Johnston wrote:
> On 2018-04-29 3:23 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
snip

>> I remember holding off on reading my first Lovecraft work, "At the 
>> Mountains of
>> Madness" because of warnings I was putting my sanity at risk. 

> ...that's absurd.

No it is not.
I can not comment on his sanity prior to his reading it.
snip

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#491325

On 2018-04-29, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> I remember holding off on reading my first Lovecraft work, "At the Mountains
 of 
> Madness" because of warnings I was putting my sanity at risk. In fact, of
 course, 
> Lovecraft telegraphs his punches far too much to be successful at terrifying
 his 
> readers - his strengths, which have made him a cult favorite, lie elsewhere; 
> specifically, in the breadth of his imagination.

Plus which, a lot of his tropes and twists have entered the general archetype
pool, so are now seen coming a ways off, like Conan's or Tolkien's, through
repetition in hundreds (if not thousands) of other stories.

Dave
-- 
\/David	DeLaney	posting	thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that	grows the flower
It's not the clock that	slows the hour 	The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is	all it takes to	make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE	HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible	:( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#491334

I know that happened to Shakespeare. But Tolkien? Didn't he raid old literature for his tropes?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#491340

In article <99235b1c-2e8a-4c39-a039-c8054f25d6d8@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc  <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>I know that happened to Shakespeare. But Tolkien? Didn't he raid old
>literature for his tropes?

1.  Please quote a short passage of what you're replying to!  I
had to go back along the thread to see what you were talking about. 
(Fortunately, trn does that easily.)

2.  Yes, he did.  But in doing so, Tolkien brought many old story
elements back into the modern world, where they've been used by
fantasists good and not-so-good ever since.

I recommend to you Tolkien's essay "Tree and Leaf," in which he
introduces the metaphor of the Story Pot, into which all sorts of
elements, factual and otherwise, have fallen, mixed with
others, and become richer and more rewarding, so that any "cook"
can pull out what he likes to compound his chosen "stew."

(And in the introduction to the essay, he notes that when he
wrote it he was also writing _The Lord of the Rings,_ and "we had
just got to Bree, and I had no more idea than the hobbits of
where Gandalf had got to or who Strider was, and had begun to
despair of ever finding out.")

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#491360

On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 8:30:08 AM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> 1.  Please quote a short passage of what you're replying to!

I'd like to. But it's very awkward when I reply to something with my smartphone.

John Savard

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#491349

On 2018-04-30 7:52 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
> I know that happened to Shakespeare. But Tolkien? Didn't he raid old literature for his tropes?
> 

Doesn't everyone.  But can you think of an example of a Sauron-like Dark 
Lord with a horde of monster soldiers before Tolkien?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#491351

In article <pc7f5o$7nl$2@gioia.aioe.org>,
David Johnston  <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 2018-04-30 7:52 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>> I know that happened to Shakespeare. But Tolkien? Didn't he raid old
>literature for his tropes?
>> 
>
>Doesn't everyone.  But can you think of an example of a Sauron-like Dark 
>Lord with a horde of monster soldiers before Tolkien?

Could it be.. SATAN?
-- 
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#491361

On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 12:24:47 PM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <pc7f5o$7nl$2@gioia.aioe.org>,
> David Johnston  <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On 2018-04-30 7:52 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
> >> I know that happened to Shakespeare. But Tolkien? Didn't he raid old
> >literature for his tropes?
> >> 
> >
> >Doesn't everyone.  But can you think of an example of a Sauron-like Dark 
> >Lord with a horde of monster soldiers before Tolkien?
> 
> Could it be.. SATAN?
> 

On level down from The Big Bad, since that position is filled by
Melkor/Morgoth. Mairon/Sauron would be whoever Lucifer/Satan's
top lieutenant "fallen angel" was.  Somebody like Beelzebul,
perhaps.

But JRRR said LoTR isn't an allegory, so there doesn't have to 
be one-to-one correspondence with the Christian legendarium, 
not with any other muthological system.

Kevin R

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 1 of 4  [1] 2 3 4  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | rec.arts.sf.written

csiph-web