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Going Back To The Well Again

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  Going Back To The Well Again David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-26 12:33 -0600
    Re: Going Back To The Well Again a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-26 12:08 -0700
      Re: Going Back To The Well Again Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-03-26 12:59 -0700
        Re: Going Back To The Well Again Johnny1A <johnny1a.again@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 13:47 -0700
      Re: Going Back To The Well Again D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-03-26 20:47 +0000
        Re: Going Back To The Well Again Butch Malahide <fred.galvin@gmail.com> - 2018-03-27 13:15 -0700
          Re: Going Back To The Well Again wroehl@gmail.com - 2018-03-27 17:08 -0700
        Re: Going Back To The Well Again David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-02 03:40 -0500
          Re: Going Back To The Well Again Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-02 20:12 -0600
            Re: Going Back To The Well Again "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-03 04:49 +0000
            Re: Going Back To The Well Again peterwezeman@hotmail.com - 2018-04-02 23:29 -0700
              Re: Going Back To The Well Again Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-03 07:50 -0600
                Re: Going Back To The Well Again D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-04-03 17:02 +0000
                  Re: Going Back To The Well Again Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> - 2018-04-03 17:34 +0000
                    Re: Going Back To The Well Again D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-04-04 13:30 +0000
                      Re: Going Back To The Well Again Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> - 2018-04-05 17:22 +0000
                        Re: Going Back To The Well Again D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-04-05 18:27 +0000
                          Re: Going Back To The Well Again Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> - 2018-04-05 19:04 +0000
                            Re: Going Back To The Well Again Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-05 13:36 -0700
                              Re: Going Back To The Well Again Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> - 2018-04-06 11:33 +0000
                            Re: Going Back To The Well Again D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-04-05 21:57 +0000
                            Re: Going Back To The Well Again D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-04-24 17:01 +0000
                        Re: Going Back To The Well Again djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-05 19:09 +0000
                          Re: Going Back To The Well Again Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> - 2018-04-06 11:34 +0000
                  Re: Going Back To The Well Again David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-04 04:22 -0500
                    Re: Going Back To The Well Again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-04 07:09 -0400
                      Re: Going Back To The Well Again Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-04 06:50 -0700
                        Re: Going Back To The Well Again David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-07 01:07 -0500
                          Re: Going Back To The Well Again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-07 07:27 -0400
                            Re: Going Back To The Well Again Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-07 07:19 -0700
                            Re: Going Back To The Well Again David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-07 20:33 -0500
                              Re: Going Back To The Well Again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-07 21:54 -0400
                        Re: Going Back To The Well Again D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-04-07 21:33 +0000
                          Re: Going Back To The Well Again djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-07 22:08 +0000
                          Re: Going Back To The Well Again Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-07 16:46 -0700
                      Re: Going Back To The Well Again "artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-04 07:55 -0700
                    Re: Going Back To The Well Again Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> - 2018-04-04 13:44 +0000
                    Re: Going Back To The Well Again D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-04-04 13:45 +0000
                  Re: Going Back To The Well Again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-04 07:05 -0400
            YASID - finding your home dimension by its bridge design. Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-03 07:51 -0600
            Re: Going Back To The Well Again "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-04-04 20:09 -0400
    Re: Going Back To The Well Again Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2018-03-27 09:29 +1300
    Re: Going Back To The Well Again ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-03-26 20:46 +0000
      Re: Going Back To The Well Again Johnny1A <johnny1a.again@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 22:11 -0700
        Re: Going Back To The Well Again David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-26 23:20 -0600
    Re: Going Back To The Well Again Johnny1A <johnny1a.again@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 22:05 -0700
      Re: Going Back To The Well Again David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-26 23:25 -0600
        Re: Going Back To The Well Again Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-27 18:31 +0300
          Re: Going Back To The Well Again David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-27 12:37 -0600
        Re: Going Back To The Well Again David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-02 03:44 -0500
          Re: Going Back To The Well Again Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2018-04-02 12:38 -0700
          Re: Going Back To The Well Again Johnny1A <johnny1a.again@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 13:52 -0700
    Going Back To The Well Again Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-03-27 08:43 -0700
      Re: Going Back To The Well Again David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-27 12:38 -0600
        Re: Going Back To The Well Again djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-27 19:45 +0000
    Re: Going Back To The Well Again William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2018-03-27 11:52 -0700
    Re: Going Back To The Well Again David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-02 03:38 -0500
      Re: Going Back To The Well Again Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> - 2018-04-02 18:39 -0600
    Re: Going Back To The Well Again "artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-02 19:50 -0700
    Re: Going Back To The Well Again "artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-02 19:52 -0700

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#489087 — Going Back To The Well Again

By request, my list of authors and their recurrent ideas.

Isaac Asimov:   Using mathematics to predict people and run society and 
rule by technocrats and/or artificial intelligences.

Arthur C. Clarke:  Guided apotheosis.

Richard Matheson:  The only man of his kind in the world living in 
isolation.

Robert A. Heinlein:  Rejection of sexual taboos, incest especially. Use 
of corporal punishment and exile instead of imprisonment as we know it.

John Norman:  Slave chix.  With the occasional bit of role reversal to 
spice things up.

H.P. Lovecraft:  Miscegenation is icky.  So is inbreeding.  Let's face 
it, sex is icky.

Frank Herbert:  Harsh environmental conditions producing supermen.

Larry Niven.  Big dumb objects.  Also planets where only a small part of 
it is habitable.

Ray Bradbury.  A future culture which renounces things of the past like 
religion, "superstition" and respect for history.

Piers Anthony.  Rule by an oligarchy of persons of superior abilities. 
Exile or execution of people believed to be particularly inferior.

Clifford Simak.  Earth largely abandoned by an extinct or departed 
humanity.  Religious robots.

Orson Scott Card.  Keeping juveniles in ignorance of large parts of what 
they are doing in the theory that this will foster creativity instead of 
causing them to reinvent the wheel.

Marion Zimmer Bradley.  Segregation of male and female.  People with 
mating seasons.

Phillip K. Dick.  Confusion and conflation of hallucination and reality.

Joanna Russ.  Women who have dispensed with men as unnecessary and 
troublesome.

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#489088

On 3/26/2018 11:33 AM, David Johnston wrote:
> By request, my list of authors and their recurrent ideas.
> 
> Robert A. Heinlein:  Rejection of sexual taboos, incest especially. Use 
> of corporal punishment and exile instead of imprisonment as we know it.

I believe a very 'recurrent' idea of Heinlein is,
the necessity of being able to defend oneself, and stand
up for oneself.

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#489090

On 3/26/2018 12:08 PM, a425couple wrote:
> On 3/26/2018 11:33 AM, David Johnston wrote:
>> By request, my list of authors and their recurrent ideas.
>>
>> Robert A. Heinlein:  Rejection of sexual taboos, incest especially. 
>> Use of corporal punishment and exile instead of imprisonment as we 
>> know it.
> 
> I believe a very 'recurrent' idea of Heinlein is,
> the necessity of being able to defend oneself, and stand
> up for oneself.

Perhaps another way of summing up Heinlein would be "Rejection of 
conventional society in favor of individualism and alternative life styles."

-- 
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation 
instinct are running screaming.

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#491058

On Monday, March 26, 2018 at 3:00:00 PM UTC-5, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 3/26/2018 12:08 PM, a425couple wrote:
> > On 3/26/2018 11:33 AM, David Johnston wrote:
> >> By request, my list of authors and their recurrent ideas.
> >>
> >> Robert A. Heinlein:  Rejection of sexual taboos, incest especially. 
> >> Use of corporal punishment and exile instead of imprisonment as we 
> >> know it.
> > 
> > I believe a very 'recurrent' idea of Heinlein is,
> > the necessity of being able to defend oneself, and stand
> > up for oneself.
> 
> Perhaps another way of summing up Heinlein would be "Rejection of 
> conventional society in favor of individualism and alternative life styles."
> 
> -- 
> Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation 
> instinct are running screaming.

Except when he didn't.  See _Coventry_.

You can find a RAH story extolling just about any viewpoint as if it was obvious, if you look.

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#489097

a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/26/2018 11:33 AM, David Johnston wrote:
>>

<restoration>

>> By request, my list of authors and their recurrent ideas.
>> Isaac Asimov:   Using mathematics to predict people and run society and
>> rule by technocrats and/or artificial intelligences.
>>
>> Robert A. Heinlein:\xc2\xa0 Rejection of sexual taboos, incest especially. Use
>> of corporal punishment and exile instead of imprisonment as we know it.

Your recent "Methuselah's Children" (RAH) motivated me to start a
re-read of the story, as serialized in the July 1941 - Sep 1941 issues
of _Astounding_ (naturally). It's been a long time, decades, since my
last read of it in _The Past Through Tomorrow_ (TPTT).
    The 1941 serialization doesn't mention the "social mass-action rule"
that appears in TPTT. Instead it mentions "psychometrician" and "ten or
twelve dimensions of [psychodynamics] are not unusual. Psychology is not
an exact science."
    My first thought at reading that passage for the first time, my
thalamic response, in the parlance of General Semantics, was that RAH
obviously ripped off Asimov. Right?
    Wrong wrong wrong. If anything, it was the other way around. Asimov
and Campbell "borrowed" psychodynamics to concoct psychohistory.
According to Wikipeadia, Asimov first approached Campbell about
_Foundation_ on 1 August 1941. [1] Presumably Asimov and Campbell, who
was quite familiar with _Methuselah's Children_, invented sfnal
psychohistory on or after that date.              
    Getting back to my thalamic response, RAH was deeply influenced by
General Semantics. [2] Perhaps even more so than the perceived master,
van Vogt. Allow me to end this followup with a semi-serious question. Is there
anything from the Golden Age that RAH didn't do first?

Note.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_(Asimov_novel)
2. http://www.heinleinsociety.org/rah/history/GeneralSemanticsInfo.html

Thank you,

--
Don

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#489194

On Monday, March 26, 2018 at 3:47:49 PM UTC-5, D B Davis wrote:
> [. . .]
> Allow me to end this followup with a semi-serious question. Is there
> anything from the Golden Age that RAH didn't do first?

The generation ship gone bad? Done first by Don Wilcox, "The Voyage that
Lasted 600 Years":

https://archive.org/stream/Amazing_Stories_v14n10_1940-10_cape1736#page/n83/mode/2up

RAH's "grokking" Martians may owe something to the Martian "grekka" in
P. Schuyler Miller's "The Cave":

https://archive.org/stream/Astounding_v30n05_1943-01_DPP#page/n81/mode/2up

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#489214

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 4:15:48 PM UTC-4, Butch Malahide wrote:
>
> RAH's "grokking" Martians may owe something to the Martian "grekka" in
> P. Schuyler Miller's "The Cave":
> 
> https://archive.org/stream/Astounding_v30n05_1943-01_DPP#page/n81/mode/2up

What a great story!  Thanks for introducing me to Miller's "The Cave"

wes

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#489569

On 2018-03-26, D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
> Allow me to end this followup with a semi-serious question. Is there
> anything from the Golden Age that RAH didn't do first?

The Girl in the Golden Atom shrink-type stories? Could also include other
portal SF, like The Fourth-Dimension Tube et seq.

Dave
-- 
\/David	DeLaney	posting	thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that	grows the flower
It's not the clock that	slows the hour 	The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is	all it takes to	make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE	HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible	:( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

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#489614

David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote:

>On 2018-03-26, D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>> Allow me to end this followup with a semi-serious question. Is there
>> anything from the Golden Age that RAH didn't do first?
>
>...  Could also include other
>portal SF, like The Fourth-Dimension Tube et seq.

By portal, do you mean parallel dimension stuff? I'm coming up
blank...

No wait, wasn't there a story with a professor and his elite students
trying some mystic thing that sent them cross-dimension?

And there's another one vaguely in my mind filed as either a Niven or
a Heinlein, where he's sitting on a riverbank "pressing the button"
and watching the bridge engineering to see if the tech level looks
familiar from each universe.
-- 
We are geeks.  Resistance is voltage over current.

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#489621

Greg Goss wrote:

> David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> >On 2018-03-26, D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
> >> Allow me to end this followup with a semi-serious question. Is
> there >> anything from the Golden Age that RAH didn't do first?
> > 
> > ...  Could also include other
> > portal SF, like The Fourth-Dimension Tube et seq.
> 
> By portal, do you mean parallel dimension stuff? I'm coming up
> blank...
> 
> No wait, wasn't there a story with a professor and his elite students
> trying some mystic thing that sent them cross-dimension?

Possibly Sidewise in Time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidewise_in_Time


Brian

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#489623

On Monday, April 2, 2018 at 9:12:24 PM UTC-5, Greg Goss wrote:
> David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> >On 2018-03-26, D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
> >> Allow me to end this followup with a semi-serious question. Is there
> >> anything from the Golden Age that RAH didn't do first?
> >
> >...  Could also include other
> >portal SF, like The Fourth-Dimension Tube et seq.
> 
> By portal, do you mean parallel dimension stuff? I'm coming up
> blank...
> 
> No wait, wasn't there a story with a professor and his elite students
> trying some mystic thing that sent them cross-dimension?
> 
This might be the Heinlein short story _Elsewhere_, which has been published
in the collection _Assignment in Eternity_.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

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#489624

peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:

>On Monday, April 2, 2018 at 9:12:24 PM UTC-5, Greg Goss wrote:
>> David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> 
>> >On 2018-03-26, D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>> >> Allow me to end this followup with a semi-serious question. Is there
>> >> anything from the Golden Age that RAH didn't do first?
>> >
>> >...  Could also include other
>> >portal SF, like The Fourth-Dimension Tube et seq.
>> 
>> By portal, do you mean parallel dimension stuff? I'm coming up
>> blank...
>> 
>> No wait, wasn't there a story with a professor and his elite students
>> trying some mystic thing that sent them cross-dimension?
>> 
>This might be the Heinlein short story _Elsewhere_, which has been published
>in the collection _Assignment in Eternity_.

That sounds like it.  Wikipedia has it as Elsewhen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsewhen
-- 
We are geeks.  Resistance is voltage over current.

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#489628

Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> wrote:
> peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>On Monday, April 2, 2018 at 9:12:24 PM UTC-5, Greg Goss wrote:
>>> David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> >On 2018-03-26, D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>> >> Allow me to end this followup with a semi-serious question. Is there
>>> >> anything from the Golden Age that RAH didn't do first?
>>> >
>>> >...  Could also include other
>>> >portal SF, like The Fourth-Dimension Tube et seq.
>>>
>>> By portal, do you mean parallel dimension stuff? I'm coming up
>>> blank...
>>>
>>> No wait, wasn't there a story with a professor and his elite students
>>> trying some mystic thing that sent them cross-dimension?
>>>
>>This might be the Heinlein short story _Elsewhere_, which has been published
>>in the collection _Assignment in Eternity_.
>
> That sounds like it.  Wikipedia has it as Elsewhen.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsewhen

My earlier announced intention to try to plod through _Timescape_
(Benford) once more is a non-starter. The slog of my earlier half-way
read is still too fresh in mind. It might help if the Benford had a cat,
like _The Doorway Into Summer_ (RAH) or _Thrice Upon a Time_ (Hogan) or
a supercat like Fritz Leiber's Gummitch, with an IQ of 160.
    "Elsewhere" (Saunders) appears in the Sep 1941 edition of
_Astounding_ along with the conclusive third installment of
"Methuselah's Children" (RAH). Campbell probably uses RAH's pen name
Caleb Saunders to avoid having two stories by the same author appear in
a single issue.
    "Elsewhere"'s a great little story about time travel. It explores
Ouspensky's six dimensions. Nahin refers to it as "Elsewhen" under the
Multidimensional time section of _Time Machines_.
    Nahin's exploration of the story is noteworthy, because Nahin
typically focuses only on time machines. "Elsewhere" uses the hypnotism
and suggestion to achieve time travel. Psychological time travel is also
used in stories such as "The Gostak and the Doshes" (Breuer),
_Time and Again_ (Finney), _Bid Time Return_ (Matheson), and its
Hollywood treatment _Somewhere In Time_.
    The story introduces me to George Berkeley, the California city's
namesake. Wikipedia says that Berkeley's views were a precursor to Mach
and Einstein.
    In the story, Professor Arthur Frost's class in speculative
metaphysics meets for a Friday-evening seminar at the professor's home.
Student Robert Monroe says this about the question of multidimensional
time:

    How can the question mean anything to human beings if we aren't
    built to perceive more dimensions? It's like in mathematics -
    you can invent any system of mathematics you like, on any set of
    axioms, but a system isn't valid unless it can be used to describe
    some sort of phenomena. Otherwise it's just so much hot air.

Thank you,

--
Don

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#489630

On 2018-04-03, D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote:

>     The story introduces me to George Berkeley, the California city's
> namesake. Wikipedia says that Berkeley's views were a precursor to Mach
> and Einstein.

In the sense of "chronologically before"? Wow, that's absurd. I have to
remember to fix that later. 
-- 
Carl Fink                           nitpicking@nitpicking.com 

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com.  Reviews!  Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!

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#489655

Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> wrote:
> On 2018-04-03, D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>
>>     The story introduces me to George Berkeley, the California city's
>> namesake. Wikipedia says that Berkeley's views were a precursor to Mach
>> and Einstein.
>
> In the sense of "chronologically before"? Wow, that's absurd. I have to
> remember to fix that later.

Here's an excerpt from the preface of "De Motu: Sive; De Motus Principio
Et Natura, Et De Causa Communicationis Motuum" (Berkeley 1721) [1]

    All change of place in one body must be relative to other
    bodies, among which the moving body is supposed to change
    its place-our own bodies which we animate being of course
    recognised among the number.

Note.

1. http://www.gutenberg.org/files/39746/39746-h/39746-h.html#toc53

Thank you,

--
Don

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#489709

On 2018-04-04, D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>
> Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> wrote:
>> On 2018-04-03, D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>
>>>     The story introduces me to George Berkeley, the California city's
>>> namesake. Wikipedia says that Berkeley's views were a precursor to Mach
>>> and Einstein.
>>
>> In the sense of "chronologically before"? Wow, that's absurd. I have to
>> remember to fix that later.
>
> Here's an excerpt from the preface of "De Motu: Sive; De Motus Principio
> Et Natura, Et De Causa Communicationis Motuum" (Berkeley 1721) [1]
>
>     All change of place in one body must be relative to other
>     bodies, among which the moving body is supposed to change
>     its place-our own bodies which we animate being of course
>     recognised among the number.

So he drew an analogy between his supernatural beliefs and the relativity of
Galileo (which was the actual predecessor of Mach's and Einstein's)? Doesn't
support your point.
-- 
Carl Fink                           nitpicking@nitpicking.com 

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com.  Reviews!  Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!

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#489712

Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> wrote:
> On 2018-04-04, D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>
>> Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> wrote:
>>> On 2018-04-03, D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>     The story introduces me to George Berkeley, the California city's
>>>> namesake. Wikipedia says that Berkeley's views were a precursor to Mach
>>>> and Einstein.
>>>
>>> In the sense of "chronologically before"? Wow, that's absurd. I have to
>>> remember to fix that later.
>>
>> Here's an excerpt from the preface of "De Motu: Sive; De Motus Principio
>> Et Natura, Et De Causa Communicationis Motuum" (Berkeley 1721) [1]
>>
>>     All change of place in one body must be relative to other
>>     bodies, among which the moving body is supposed to change
>>     its place-our own bodies which we animate being of course
>>     recognised among the number.
>
> So he drew an analogy between his supernatural beliefs and the relativity of
> Galileo (which was the actual predecessor of Mach's and Einstein's)? Doesn't
> support your point.

    My own ignorance of Latin is profound. So that left me in the
unenviable position of using an except from the English preface, words
which were probably not written by Berkeley.
    Are you fluent enough in Latin to translate the Berkeley? If so,
"supernatural beliefs" is a fairly broad brush. Might you possibly
translate a tiny bit about the nature of Berkeley's supernatural
beliefs?
    If you're like me and you have only a rudimentary understanding of
Latin, how did you translate Berkeley's Latin into English in order to
formulate an opinion on his essay? Although translate.bing.com is one of
Microsoft's better efforts, it lacks a Latin translator. Is there an
English translation of the Berkeley available?

Thank you,

--
Don

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#489713

On 2018-04-05, D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>
> Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> wrote:
>> On 2018-04-04, D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2018-04-03, D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>     The story introduces me to George Berkeley, the California city's
>>>>> namesake. Wikipedia says that Berkeley's views were a precursor to Mach
>>>>> and Einstein.
>>>>
>>>> In the sense of "chronologically before"? Wow, that's absurd. I have to
>>>> remember to fix that later.
>>>
>>> Here's an excerpt from the preface of "De Motu: Sive; De Motus Principio
>>> Et Natura, Et De Causa Communicationis Motuum" (Berkeley 1721) [1]
>>>
>>>     All change of place in one body must be relative to other
>>>     bodies, among which the moving body is supposed to change
>>>     its place-our own bodies which we animate being of course
>>>     recognised among the number.
>>
>> So he drew an analogy between his supernatural beliefs and the relativity of
>> Galileo (which was the actual predecessor of Mach's and Einstein's)? Doesn't
>> support your point.
>
>     My own ignorance of Latin is profound. So that left me in the
> unenviable position of using an except from the English preface, words
> which were probably not written by Berkeley.
>     Are you fluent enough in Latin to translate the Berkeley? If so,
> "supernatural beliefs" is a fairly broad brush. Might you possibly
> translate a tiny bit about the nature of Berkeley's supernatural
> beliefs?
>     If you're like me and you have only a rudimentary understanding of
> Latin, how did you translate Berkeley's Latin into English in order to
> formulate an opinion on his essay? Although translate.bing.com is one of
> Microsoft's better efforts, it lacks a Latin translator. Is there an
> English translation of the Berkeley available?

It doesn't matter. Galileo's relativity was both more relevant to science
and much earlier.
-- 
Carl Fink                           nitpicking@nitpicking.com 

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com.  Reviews!  Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!

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#489719

On Thursday, 5 April 2018 20:04:44 UTC+1, Carl Fink  wrote:
> On 2018-04-05, D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
> >
> > Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> wrote:
> >> On 2018-04-04, D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 2018-04-03, D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>     The story introduces me to George Berkeley, the California city's
> >>>>> namesake. Wikipedia says that Berkeley's views were a precursor to Mach
> >>>>> and Einstein.
> >>>>
> >>>> In the sense of "chronologically before"? Wow, that's absurd. I have to
> >>>> remember to fix that later.
> >>>
> >>> Here's an excerpt from the preface of "De Motu: Sive; De Motus Principio
> >>> Et Natura, Et De Causa Communicationis Motuum" (Berkeley 1721) [1]
> >>>
> >>>     All change of place in one body must be relative to other
> >>>     bodies, among which the moving body is supposed to change
> >>>     its place-our own bodies which we animate being of course
> >>>     recognised among the number.
> >>
> >> So he drew an analogy between his supernatural beliefs and the relativity of
> >> Galileo (which was the actual predecessor of Mach's and Einstein's)? Doesn't
> >> support your point.
> >
> >     My own ignorance of Latin is profound. So that left me in the
> > unenviable position of using an except from the English preface, words
> > which were probably not written by Berkeley.
> >     Are you fluent enough in Latin to translate the Berkeley? If so,
> > "supernatural beliefs" is a fairly broad brush. Might you possibly
> > translate a tiny bit about the nature of Berkeley's supernatural
> > beliefs?
> >     If you're like me and you have only a rudimentary understanding of
> > Latin, how did you translate Berkeley's Latin into English in order to
> > formulate an opinion on his essay? Although translate.bing.com is one of
> > Microsoft's better efforts, it lacks a Latin translator. Is there an
> > English translation of the Berkeley available?
> 
> It doesn't matter. Galileo's relativity was both more relevant to science
> and much earlier.
> -- 
> Carl Fink                           nitpicking@nitpicking.com 
> 
> Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com.  Reviews!  Observations!
> Stupid mistakes you can correct!

Did Galileo let the sun move while the planets swing around it?
And let the distant stars move?  I don't remember.

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#489740

On 2018-04-05, Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

> Did Galileo let the sun move while the planets swing around it?
> And let the distant stars move?  I don't remember.

Galileo was famously the author of the "Dialogue on Two World Systems", if
that helps.
-- 
Carl Fink                           nitpicking@nitpicking.com 

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com.  Reviews!  Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!

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