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Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime

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  Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-08-22 02:48 +0000
    Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-08-22 03:54 -0400
      Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-08-22 16:44 +0000
    Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-08-22 03:32 -0700
      Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2015-08-22 10:35 -0500
        Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-08-22 17:50 +0000
          Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2015-08-22 19:50 -0500
        Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-08-22 17:02 -0500
      Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-08-22 16:47 +0000
        Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-08-22 12:35 -0700
        Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-08-22 17:04 -0500
          Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime Shawn Wilson <ikonoqlast@gmail.com> - 2015-08-22 16:41 -0700
    Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime Richard Todd <rmtodd@servalan.servalan.com> - 2015-08-22 12:49 -0500
      Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-08-22 14:56 -0400
      Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-08-22 20:49 +0000
        Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime Richard Todd <rmtodd@servalan.servalan.com> - 2015-08-22 17:10 -0500
      Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-08-22 17:07 -0500
    Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime Butch Malahide <fred.galvin@gmail.com> - 2015-08-22 11:15 -0700
      Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-08-22 22:41 -0400
    Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-08-22 20:50 +0000
    Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime nebusj-@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) - 2015-08-23 02:20 +0000
      Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2015-08-23 13:45 -0700
        Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-08-23 17:14 -0700
      Re: Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-08-24 01:28 +0000

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#420797 — Inertia as the Key Insight to Hypertime

    There's time enough at last for me to read my first Perry Rhoden
story, named "Prisoner of Time." In it Rhodan's people use a device
that speeds up their proximal clock by 72,000 times. After Rhodan's
people speed up their proximal clock, the distal world moves so slow
that it appears to stand still while distal objects become virtually
immovable due to inertia. To understand why, let's take a look at a
couple of formulas.
    We can define inertia as the resistance of an inertial mass to a
change of velocity. Formula 1 shows the relationship:
         F = m*a                                                     [1]
where F is force, m is inertial mass, and a is acceleration.
Acceleration is defined as:
         a = d / t^2                                                 [2]
where d is distance and t is time. The numerator in formula 2 becomes
larger as time t shrinks and causes the denominator to become smaller.
"Prisoner of Time" illustrates the concept in this passage:

        Rous looked at the crystal and smiled in relief. "Mr.
    Steiner, I already said, that there would be an explanation
    for everything. That includes this crystal, which is nothing
    other than a very slowly falling raindrop. Consider that
    this raindrop falls 72,000 times more slowly than on Earth,
    assuming this world has the same gravitation, which seems to
    be the case. What does that mean? The raindrop falls about
    10 centimetres an hour, based on the usual speed of falling
    back on Terra."
        They stared at the wonder of the floating crystal, which
    seemed to defy all understanding. Steiner was evidently not
    completely convinced. He reached out to the raindrop with his
    hand and tried to grasp it. But he did not succeed. The
    crystal hung in the air as though nailed there and could not
    be moved a millimetre. The inertia of its mass had increased
    parallel to the retardation of time. One required 72,000
    times more energy to catch a raindrop here than on the Earth.
    Not even Steiner had that much strength.

*spoiler space*

    Wells' "The New Accelerator" [3], written in 1901, may be the
seminal story of the hypertime genre. But it fails to honor inertial
mass increase because it allows Professor Gibberne to move a lapdog.
    Bradbury's "Frost and Frost" [4], written in 1946, also fails to
honor inertia. In the story, exposure to radiation causes the survivors
of a rocket crash to live out their lives in eight short days. Yet the
survivors easily open the door of their rocket.
    In television it again is "hit or miss" in regards to inertia. The
_Outer Limits_ episode called "The Premonition" [5] honors inertia.
    But the movie "Clockstoppers" [6] fails to honor inertia. In it
people in hypertime move distal objects with ease. The _Smallville_
episode "Accelerate" [7] shows raindrops suspended in mid-air and slowly
falling. It fails to honor inertia when it allows people in hypertime to
move raindrops.

So there you have it. Inertia as the key insight to hypertime. :)

Notes.

3. http://www.classicreader.com/book/172/1/
4. http://tinyurl.com/nroj9qh
5. http://tinyurl.com/ouvlqyc
6. https://www.google.com/search?q=Clockstoppers+site%3Ayoutube.com
7. http://tinyurl.com/qzktyns

--
 ,-.                              There was a young lady named Bright
 \_/                              Whose speed was far faster than light;
{|||)<   Don Kuenz KB7RPU            She set out one day
 / \                                 In a relative way
 `-'                              And returned on the previous night.

What you do speaks so loud that I can not hear what you say. - Emerson.

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#420808

In article <20150821a@crcomp.net>,
Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> said:

>    Bradbury's "Frost and Frost" [4], written in 1946,

slight error on the title:

     * Frost and Fire (1946) also appeared as:
          + Variant Title: The Creatures That Time Forgot (1946)

> also fails to honor inertia. In the story, exposure to radiation
> causes the survivors of a rocket crash to live out their lives in
> eight short days. Yet the survivors easily open the door of their
> rocket.

Although their development and aging took place at a hyperfast rate,
I'm not sure that they were accelerated.  I think that they
subjectively as well as objectively experienced only about 190 hours
of existence from birth to death by old age.  Or at last that's how
I interpreted it when I read the story way back when.

(No, even with some sort of near-instant education process you still
can't make the setup make any sense.  This _is_ Bradbury after all.)

> In television it again is "hit or miss" in regards to inertia. The
> _Outer Limits_ episode called "The Premonition" [5] honors
> inertia.

Sort of.  It did with regard to macro objects, but not, say, air
molecules.  (I.e., the accelerated characters could breathe.)  There
was also some inconsistency even at the macro level; the characters
were able to move a piece of nylon strapping around so as to rig a
connection between a (frozen) runaway truck's front wheel and its
brake pedal such that in the real-time frame of reference the
turning wheel mechanically applied the brake.

(As with the Bradbury story, this is as best as I recall.  I could
be misremembering.)

-- wds

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#420819

In rec.arts.sf.written William December Starr <wdstarr@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <20150821a@crcomp.net>,
> Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> said:
>
>>    Bradbury's "Frost and Frost" [4], written in 1946,
>
> slight error on the title:
>
>     * Frost and Fire (1946) also appeared as:
>          + Variant Title: The Creatures That Time Forgot (1946)
>
>> also fails to honor inertia. In the story, exposure to radiation
>> causes the survivors of a rocket crash to live out their lives in
>> eight short days. Yet the survivors easily open the door of their
>> rocket.
>
> Although their development and aging took place at a hyperfast rate,
> I'm not sure that they were accelerated.  I think that they
> subjectively as well as objectively experienced only about 190 hours
> of existence from birth to death by old age.  Or at last that's how
> I interpreted it when I read the story way back when.
>
> (No, even with some sort of near-instant education process you still
> can't make the setup make any sense.  This _is_ Bradbury after all.)
>
>> In television it again is "hit or miss" in regards to inertia. The
>> _Outer Limits_ episode called "The Premonition" [5] honors
>> inertia.
>
> Sort of.  It did with regard to macro objects, but not, say, air
> molecules.  (I.e., the accelerated characters could breathe.)  There
> was also some inconsistency even at the macro level; the characters
> were able to move a piece of nylon strapping around so as to rig a
> connection between a (frozen) runaway truck's front wheel and its
> brake pedal such that in the real-time frame of reference the
> turning wheel mechanically applied the brake.
>
> (As with the Bradbury story, this is as best as I recall.  I could
> be misremembering.)

Thank you for catching the Bradbury typo. :)

Air molecules are a show stopper. If inertia prevents a hypertimer from
moving rain drops, how can they inhale air molecules? This perhaps begs
the question, where is the hypertime boundary?

Psuedohypertime radiation bathes Bradbury's rocket. Perhaps the skin of
that rocket is a psuedohypertime boundary. And people's skin is another
psuedohypertime boundary.

In "The Premonition" the seat belts come from a car that has moved into
hypertime along with its driver. So, at the macro level, it still works.

--
 ,-.                              There was a young lady named Bright
 \_/                              Whose speed was far faster than light;
{|||)<   Don Kuenz KB7RPU            She set out one day
 / \                                 In a relative way
 `-'                              And returned on the previous night.

What you do speaks so loud that I can not hear what you say. - Emerson.

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#420813

On Saturday, 22 August 2015 03:50:43 UTC+1, Don Kuenz  wrote:
> So there you have it. Inertia as the key insight to hypertime. :)

If you preserve inertia, then your story is mostly about 
walking around looking at stuff.  You may not even be 
able to leave a room, if the door is closed.

But, depending on the speed ratio, you may be able
to move objects, but with a proportionately greater
effort than before.

Another approach is that an object which you touch
becomes accelerated, or, you can turn the effect off
and on, and incorporate the object in the effect
that way.

Maybe ask _The Flash_ about the best way to deal
with all this...

I've been watching TV repeats of _The Wild Wild West_
and my impression is that "The Night of the Burning 
Diamond" represents a point of deliberate abandonment 
of plausibility, although I may be forgetting some
wacky hi-jinks earlier on in the series.  I don't know
if _Star Trek_ then deliberately re-used the idea
(I assume the dates are that way around) or if every
fantasy show at that time used it.

In the Next Generation episode "Timescape", time seems
to be stopped - or paused - but I don't remember if
it's just passing very slowly.

Either way, the problems described in 
<http://what-if.xkcd.com/1/> would tend to arise.
I was browsing the book version the other day;
it does tend to express disastrous consequences -
sometimes not even implied by the original question,
such as "What if everyone in the world pointed a
laser pointer at the moon", initially nothing - 
and I'd mark it somewhere below "Ideal Gift" for 
that reason, depending on who you're shopping for.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet_time> is another
variation - and apparently a "registered trademark"
for _The Matrix_, but also a common expression in the 
context - so I wonder if I'll receive a lawyer's 
complaint about misusing the term.

"The New Accelerator" offers another alarming consequence.
Nothing excessively disastrous happens in the story (that's
saved for "The Man Who Could Work Miracles"), but in closing
it's proposed that people will use the accelerator drug to
do their daily work - which suggests to me that it becomes
in effect compulsory.

That this stuck in my mind suggests that Wells or his 
narrator didn't think of an army of accelerated soldiers
who can exterminate entire non-accelerated nations in
less time than it takes to write this parag

.

.

.

Futurama episode <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Hundred_Big_Boys>
(the title refers to a sum of money) uses slowed time 
in a much happier way.  (The military extermination of 
entire nations features in the episode set-up.)

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#420817

Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote in news:26cd79c4-289c-
467d-808c-2c3a9ec582c3@googlegroups.com:

> On Saturday, 22 August 2015 03:50:43 UTC+1, Don Kuenz  wrote:
>> So there you have it. Inertia as the key insight to hypertime. :)
> 
> If you preserve inertia, then your story is mostly about 
> walking around looking at stuff.  You may not even be 
> able to leave a room, if the door is closed.
> 
> But, depending on the speed ratio, you may be able
> to move objects, but with a proportionately greater
> effort than before.
> 
> Another approach is that an object which you touch
> becomes accelerated, or, you can turn the effect off
> and on, and incorporate the object in the effect
> that way.

Nicholson Baker's 1994 'Serious Literature' genre novel 
'The Fermata' takes that route,  The protag
uses it mostly as a way of indulging his sexual 
inclinations.

He makes the point, among other things, that transport
becomes a problem, and mainly uses motorcycles, which
can weave between all the stationary cars on the road.

> Futurama episode <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Hundred_Big_Boys>
> (the title refers to a sum of money) uses slowed time 
> in a much happier way.  (The military extermination of 
> entire nations features in the episode set-up.)

During the hyperspeed sequence in that episode, there's
a heavenly choir singing. I've always wondered if that is
a pre-existing recording; I'd like to get a copy.

pt

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#420822

Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> wrote:
> Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote in news:26cd79c4-289c-
> 467d-808c-2c3a9ec582c3@googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Saturday, 22 August 2015 03:50:43 UTC+1, Don Kuenz  wrote:
>>> So there you have it. Inertia as the key insight to hypertime. :)
>>
>> If you preserve inertia, then your story is mostly about
>> walking around looking at stuff.  You may not even be
>> able to leave a room, if the door is closed.
>>
>> But, depending on the speed ratio, you may be able
>> to move objects, but with a proportionately greater
>> effort than before.
>>
>> Another approach is that an object which you touch
>> becomes accelerated, or, you can turn the effect off
>> and on, and incorporate the object in the effect
>> that way.
>
> Nicholson Baker's 1994 'Serious Literature' genre novel
> 'The Fermata' takes that route,  The protag
> uses it mostly as a way of indulging his sexual
> inclinations.
>
> He makes the point, among other things, that transport
> becomes a problem, and mainly uses motorcycles, which
> can weave between all the stationary cars on the road.

Holy hormonal hypertime! Then there's "Cashback" the movie. [1] Besides
inertial issues, now the endocrine system needs to be up to speed. ;)

Note.

1. http://tinyurl.com/qfzosjf

--
 ,-.                              There was a young lady named Bright
 \_/                              Whose speed was far faster than light;
{|||)<   Don Kuenz KB7RPU            She set out one day
 / \                                 In a relative way
 `-'                              And returned on the previous night.

What you do speaks so loud that I can not hear what you say. - Emerson.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#420845

Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote in news:20150822d@crcomp.net:

> 
> Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote in news:26cd79c4-289c-
>> 467d-808c-2c3a9ec582c3@googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> On Saturday, 22 August 2015 03:50:43 UTC+1, Don Kuenz  wrote:
>>>> So there you have it. Inertia as the key insight to hypertime. :)
>>>
>>> If you preserve inertia, then your story is mostly about
>>> walking around looking at stuff.  You may not even be
>>> able to leave a room, if the door is closed.
>>>
>>> But, depending on the speed ratio, you may be able
>>> to move objects, but with a proportionately greater
>>> effort than before.
>>>
>>> Another approach is that an object which you touch
>>> becomes accelerated, or, you can turn the effect off
>>> and on, and incorporate the object in the effect
>>> that way.
>>
>> Nicholson Baker's 1994 'Serious Literature' genre novel
>> 'The Fermata' takes that route,  The protag
>> uses it mostly as a way of indulging his sexual
>> inclinations.
>>
>> He makes the point, among other things, that transport
>> becomes a problem, and mainly uses motorcycles, which
>> can weave between all the stationary cars on the road.
> 
> Holy hormonal hypertime! Then there's "Cashback" the movie. [1] Besides
> inertial issues, now the endocrine system needs to be up to speed. ;)
> 
> Note.
> 
> 1. http://tinyurl.com/qfzosjf

Wikipedia claims 'Cashback' may be an adaption of the book.
It also notes that Neil Gaiman and Roger Zemeckis wrote a
screenplay based on the book, over a decade ago.

pt

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#420836

On 2015-08-22, Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> wrote:
> During the hyperspeed sequence in that episode, there's
> a heavenly choir singing. I've always wondered if that is
> a pre-existing recording; I'd like to get a copy.

Nah, it's just that if you're sped up that much, that's what the music of the
spheres sounds like.

Dave, dance of the electrons and all that rot
-- 
\/David	DeLaney	posting	thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that	grows the flower
It's not the clock that	slows the hour 	The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is	all it takes to	make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE	HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://gatekeeper.vic.com/~dbd/	-net.legends/Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

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#420820

Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, 22 August 2015 03:50:43 UTC+1, Don Kuenz  wrote:
>> So there you have it. Inertia as the key insight to hypertime. :)
>
> If you preserve inertia, then your story is mostly about
> walking around looking at stuff.  You may not even be
> able to leave a room, if the door is closed.
>
> But, depending on the speed ratio, you may be able
> to move objects, but with a proportionately greater
> effort than before.
>
> Another approach is that an object which you touch
> becomes accelerated, or, you can turn the effect off
> and on, and incorporate the object in the effect
> that way.
>
> Maybe ask _The Flash_ about the best way to deal
> with all this...
>
> I've been watching TV repeats of _The Wild Wild West_
> and my impression is that "The Night of the Burning
> Diamond" represents a point of deliberate abandonment
> of plausibility, although I may be forgetting some
> wacky hi-jinks earlier on in the series.  I don't know
> if _Star Trek_ then deliberately re-used the idea
> (I assume the dates are that way around) or if every
> fantasy show at that time used it.
>
> In the Next Generation episode "Timescape", time seems
> to be stopped - or paused - but I don't remember if
> it's just passing very slowly.
>
> Either way, the problems described in
> <http://what-if.xkcd.com/1/> would tend to arise.
> I was browsing the book version the other day;
> it does tend to express disastrous consequences -
> sometimes not even implied by the original question,
> such as "What if everyone in the world pointed a
> laser pointer at the moon", initially nothing -
> and I'd mark it somewhere below "Ideal Gift" for
> that reason, depending on who you're shopping for.
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet_time> is another
> variation - and apparently a "registered trademark"
> for _The Matrix_, but also a common expression in the
> context - so I wonder if I'll receive a lawyer's
> complaint about misusing the term.
>
> "The New Accelerator" offers another alarming consequence.
> Nothing excessively disastrous happens in the story (that's
> saved for "The Man Who Could Work Miracles"), but in closing
> it's proposed that people will use the accelerator drug to
> do their daily work - which suggests to me that it becomes
> in effect compulsory.
>
> That this stuck in my mind suggests that Wells or his
> narrator didn't think of an army of accelerated soldiers
> who can exterminate entire non-accelerated nations in
> less time than it takes to write this parag
>
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
> Futurama episode <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Hundred_Big_Boys>
> (the title refers to a sum of money) uses slowed time
> in a much happier way.  (The military extermination of
> entire nations features in the episode set-up.)

Thank you for augmenting the hypertime list and giving me even more food
for thought. "The New Accelerator" singes objects and foreshadows xkcd's
take. "The Infinite Worlds of H G Wells" [1] is a TV mini-series that
adapts "The New Accelerator" for its opening episode. That episode
actually features a baseball that becomes singed when the hypertiming
Professor Gibberne throws it. It also highlights H G Wells' common sense
in regard to new situations.

There really ought to be a hypertiming Dr Miguelito Loveless somewhere
in "The Wild Wild West" can. :) My original post also neglects to
mention "The Time Travelers." [2] The Travelers end up hypertiming near
the end of the movie. The hypertimers also show up as a flicker at the
beginning. 

Notes.

1. http://tinyurl.com/nqhuttn
2. http://tinyurl.com/nbxyog6

--
 ,-.                              There was a young lady named Bright
 \_/                              Whose speed was far faster than light;
{|||)<   Don Kuenz KB7RPU            She set out one day
 / \                                 In a relative way
 `-'                              And returned on the previous night.

What you do speaks so loud that I can not hear what you say. - Emerson.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#420830

On Saturday, 22 August 2015 17:49:30 UTC+1, Don Kuenz  wrote:
> There really ought to be a hypertiming Dr Miguelito Loveless somewhere
> in "The Wild Wild West" can. :) 

Maybe, but according to <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0748513/>
a guy called Morgan Midas was responsible (it says "invisibility
potion", but, y'know) and it was made from diamonds, destructively.

If it was made out of used train tickets, it would be /somewhat/
less likely that Jim West and Artemus Gordon would be aware of it,
until Too Late (Mr Midas intended to take over the world with it...
somehow.)  Unless he stole the tickets from the train they rode
around in...

But, it accounts for the secret not being obtained for government
use; extremely limited availability of diamonds.

Maybe Dr Loveless could start by finding a way to make diamonds...
we did.

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#420837

On 2015-08-22, Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote:
> Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>> If you preserve inertia, then your story is mostly about
>> walking around looking at stuff.  You may not even be
>> able to leave a room, if the door is closed.

...
> Thank you for augmenting the hypertime list and giving me even more food
> for thought. "The New Accelerator" singes objects and foreshadows xkcd's
> take. "The Infinite Worlds of H G Wells" [1] is a TV mini-series that
> adapts "The New Accelerator" for its opening episode. That episode
> actually features a baseball that becomes singed when the hypertiming
> Professor Gibberne throws it. It also highlights H G Wells' common sense
> in regard to new situations.
>
> There really ought to be a hypertiming Dr Miguelito Loveless somewhere
> in "The Wild Wild West" can. :) My original post also neglects to
> mention "The Time Travelers." [2] The Travelers end up hypertiming near
> the end of the movie. The hypertimers also show up as a flicker at the
> beginning. 

Not sure if either of you mentioned the Larry Niven _Gil the ARM_ story that
gets a version of hypertime involved in it. (It's a murder mystery, with a
completely unknown/unrecognizable weapon at first...)

Dave
-- 
\/David	DeLaney	posting	thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that	grows the flower
It's not the clock that	slows the hour 	The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is	all it takes to	make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE	HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://gatekeeper.vic.com/~dbd/	-net.legends/Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

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#420844

On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 3:04:12 PM UTC-7, David DeLaney wrote:


> Not sure if either of you mentioned the Larry Niven _Gil the ARM_ story that
> gets a version of hypertime involved in it. (It's a murder mystery, with a
> completely unknown/unrecognizable weapon at first...)


Ie a time accelerated flashlight.  

God knows I need to find SOME use for the vast SF library in my head...

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#420821

Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> writes:

>     There's time enough at last for me to read my first Perry Rhoden
> story, named "Prisoner of Time." In it Rhodan's people use a device
> that speeds up their proximal clock by 72,000 times.

(This is Perry Rhodan #56 in the old Ace US edition, PR #64 in the
German original for those who can read the German summary at
http://www.perrypedia.proc.org/wiki/Quelle:PR64 .)

More precisely, they use the "ring-field-generator", I think it was
called, to enter another universe, the so-called "Druuf Universe",
where the native time rate is 72000 times slower, while still retaining
their original time rate.  

If this is the only PR book you have access to, have fun, IIRC it's a
pretty good one.  If you can find/have access to others, you might want
to know that PR#50 "Attack From the Unseen" and PR#51 "Return from the
Void" had the beginning parts of the Druuf storyline, and some further
mention of it in PR #52 "Fortress Atlantis".  PR #53-55 are unrelated
stories taking place aroud the same time.  The Druuf story line
continues off and on within the overall "Atlan and Arkon" cycle (PR #42
thru #91 in the US editions, covering the years in-story from 2040AD to
2045AD), reaching a high point around PR #80 "The
Columbus Affair".

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#420824

On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 12:49:17 -0500, Richard Todd
<rmtodd@servalan.servalan.com> wrote
in<news:x737zb6wo2.fsf@ichotolot.servalan.com> in
rec.arts.sf.science,rec.arts.sf.tv,rec.arts.sf.written:

> Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> writes:

>> There's time enough at last for me to read my first
>> Perry Rhoden story, named "Prisoner of Time." In it
>> Rhodan's people use a device that speeds up their
>> proximal clock by 72,000 times.

> (This is Perry Rhodan #56 in the old Ace US edition, PR
> #64 in the German original for those who can read the
> German summary at http://www.perrypedia.proc.org/wiki/Quelle:PR64 .) 

There seems to be an English translation at

<http://www.vb-tech.co.za/ebooks/Perry%20Rhodan%20-%20Future%20Cycle%20064%20-%20Prisoner%20of%20Time%20-%20SF.txt>,

though I shouldn’t care to bet that it’s legal.

> More precisely, they use the "ring-field-generator", I
> think it was called, 

Linsenfeldgenerator: lens field generator.

> to enter another universe, the so-called "Druuf
> Universe", where the native time rate is 72000 times
> slower, while still retaining their original time rate. 

[...]

Brian
-- 
It was the neap tide, when the baga venture out of their
holes to root for sandtatties.  The waves whispered
rhythmically over the packed sand: haggisss, haggisss,
haggisss.

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#420832

In rec.arts.sf.written Richard Todd <rmtodd@servalan.servalan.com> wrote:
> Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> writes:
>
>>     There's time enough at last for me to read my first Perry Rhoden
>> story, named "Prisoner of Time." In it Rhodan's people use a device
>> that speeds up their proximal clock by 72,000 times.
>
> (This is Perry Rhodan #56 in the old Ace US edition, PR #64 in the
> German original for those who can read the German summary at
> http://www.perrypedia.proc.org/wiki/Quelle:PR64 .)
>
> More precisely, they use the "ring-field-generator", I think it was
> called, to enter another universe, the so-called "Druuf Universe",
> where the native time rate is 72000 times slower, while still retaining
> their original time rate.
>
> If this is the only PR book you have access to, have fun, IIRC it's a
> pretty good one.  If you can find/have access to others, you might want
> to know that PR#50 "Attack From the Unseen" and PR#51 "Return from the
> Void" had the beginning parts of the Druuf storyline, and some further
> mention of it in PR #52 "Fortress Atlantis".  PR #53-55 are unrelated
> stories taking place aroud the same time.  The Druuf story line
> continues off and on within the overall "Atlan and Arkon" cycle (PR #42
> thru #91 in the US editions, covering the years in-story from 2040AD to
> 2045AD), reaching a high point around PR #80 "The
> Columbus Affair".

A website, that in retrospect seems shady, sold me a few dozen PR
ebooks in English. Since then perrypedia and a PR ebook retailer [1]
caught my attention.

The retailer seems to offer unabridged ebook editions of PR, in German.
My only remaining task now is to navigate myself through their German
order page. :)

Note.

1. http://www.science-fiction-ebooks.de

--
 ,-.                              There was a young lady named Bright
 \_/                              Whose speed was far faster than light;
{|||)<   Don Kuenz KB7RPU            She set out one day
 / \                                 In a relative way
 `-'                              And returned on the previous night.

What you do speaks so loud that I can not hear what you say. - Emerson.

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#420839

Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> writes:

> A website, that in retrospect seems shady, sold me a few dozen PR
> ebooks in English. Since then perrypedia and a PR ebook retailer [1]
> caught my attention.
>
> The retailer seems to offer unabridged ebook editions of PR, in German.
> My only remaining task now is to navigate myself through their German
> order page. :)

> 1. http://www.science-fiction-ebooks.de

Yeah, that's the SF division of Beam E-Books (www.beam-ebooks.de), and
that's where I get my German copies of PR.  EPUB-format downloads with
no DRM.  Recommended. 

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#420838

On 2015-08-22, Richard Todd <rmtodd@servalan.servalan.com> wrote:
> Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> writes:
>>     There's time enough at last for me to read my first Perry Rhoden
>> story, named "Prisoner of Time." In it Rhodan's people use a device
>> that speeds up their proximal clock by 72,000 times.

> More precisely, they use the "ring-field-generator", I think it was
> called, to enter another universe, the so-called "Druuf Universe",
> where the native time rate is 72000 times slower, while still retaining
> their original time rate.  

Which reminds me; also check out Daniel Keys Moran's _The Armageddon Blues_.
In one segment of it a character sets a doorway/worldgate to an entry speed
of eighteen million to one, timewise ... because it's going into a minus
world, with time flowing backwards & made of antimatter, and at that speed
the protagonist will skip along the surface of the interface rather than
blowing up real good as a one-to-one entry would have done. (Hey, I didn't
say it quite made SENSE when looked at closely...)

Dave
-- 
\/David	DeLaney	posting	thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that	grows the flower
It's not the clock that	slows the hour 	The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is	all it takes to	make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE	HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://gatekeeper.vic.com/~dbd/	-net.legends/Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

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#420823

On Friday, August 21, 2015 at 9:50:43 PM UTC-5, Don Kuenz wrote:
> There's time enough at last for me to read my first Perry Rhoden
> story, named "Prisoner of Time." In it Rhodan's people use a device
> that speeds up their proximal clock by 72,000 times. After Rhodan's
> people speed up their proximal clock, the distal world moves so slow
> that it appears to stand still while distal objects become virtually
> immovable due to inertia. To understand why, let's take a look at a
> couple of formulas.
>     We can define inertia as the resistance of an inertial mass to a
> change of velocity. Formula 1 shows the relationship:
>          F = m*a                                                     [1]
> where F is force, m is inertial mass, and a is acceleration.
> Acceleration is defined as:
>          a = d / t^2                                                 [2]
> where d is distance and t is time. The numerator in formula 2 becomes
> larger as time t shrinks and causes the denominator to become smaller.
> "Prisoner of Time" illustrates the concept in this passage:
> 
>         Rous looked at the crystal and smiled in relief. "Mr.
>     Steiner, I already said, that there would be an explanation
>     for everything. That includes this crystal, which is nothing
>     other than a very slowly falling raindrop. Consider that
>     this raindrop falls 72,000 times more slowly than on Earth,
>     assuming this world has the same gravitation, which seems to
>     be the case. What does that mean? The raindrop falls about
>     10 centimetres an hour, based on the usual speed of falling
>     back on Terra."
>         They stared at the wonder of the floating crystal, which
>     seemed to defy all understanding. Steiner was evidently not
>     completely convinced. He reached out to the raindrop with his
>     hand and tried to grasp it. But he did not succeed. The
>     crystal hung in the air as though nailed there and could not
>     be moved a millimetre. The inertia of its mass had increased
>     parallel to the retardation of time. One required 72,000
>     times more energy to catch a raindrop here than on the Earth.
>     Not even Steiner had that much strength.
> 
> *spoiler space*
> 
>     Wells' "The New Accelerator" [3], written in 1901, may be the
> seminal story of the hypertime genre. But it fails to honor inertial
> mass increase because it allows Professor Gibberne to move a lapdog.
>     Bradbury's "Frost and Frost" [4], written in 1946, also fails to
> honor inertia. In the story, exposure to radiation causes the survivors
> of a rocket crash to live out their lives in eight short days. Yet the
> survivors easily open the door of their rocket.
>     In television it again is "hit or miss" in regards to inertia. The
> _Outer Limits_ episode called "The Premonition" [5] honors inertia.
>     But the movie "Clockstoppers" [6] fails to honor inertia. In it
> people in hypertime move distal objects with ease. The _Smallville_
> episode "Accelerate" [7] shows raindrops suspended in mid-air and slowly
> falling. It fails to honor inertia when it allows people in hypertime to
> move raindrops.
> 
> So there you have it. Inertia as the key insight to hypertime. :)
> 
> Notes.
> 
> 3. http://www.classicreader.com/book/172/1/
> 4. http://tinyurl.com/nroj9qh
> 5. http://tinyurl.com/ouvlqyc
> 6. https://www.google.com/search?q=Clockstoppers+site%3Ayoutube.com
> 7. http://tinyurl.com/qzktyns
> 
> --
>  ,-.                              There was a young lady named Bright
>  \_/                              Whose speed was far faster than light;
> {|||)<   Don Kuenz KB7RPU            She set out one day
>  / \                                 In a relative way
>  `-'                              And returned on the previous night.
> 
> What you do speaks so loud that I can not hear what you say. - Emerson.

Have you read "The Six Fingerx of Time" by R. A. Lafferty?

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#420851

On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 11:15:28 -0700 (PDT), Butch Malahide
<fred.galvin@gmail.com> wrote
in<news:201156cc-7794-47d2-8321-b8ec72e9db66@googlegroups.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

> Have you read "The Six Finger of Time" by R. A. Lafferty?

For those who haven’t, it’s available at Gutenberg:

<http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/31663>

Brian
-- 
It was the neap tide, when the baga venture out of their
holes to root for sandtatties.  The waves whispered
rhythmically over the packed sand: haggisss, haggisss,
haggisss.

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#420834

Butch Malahide <fred.galvin@gmail.com> wrote:
> Have you read "The Six Fingerx of Time" by R. A. Lafferty?

This is the first time that anyone mentioned that story to me. And it
was available in my ebook library. So...

That's one fantastic little story. It's still swirling around in my
mind. You are the man. Thank you for sharing.

Once, as a small boy in a grocery store with my parents, my eyes
glimpsed the vestigial double thumb of a man in the store. My town's in
the oil patch, so my imagination attributed it to yet another industrial
accident. At the time, it just seemed too rude to ask the man about it.

"The New Accelerator" foreshadows "The Six Fingers of Time" carefulness
in the handling non-accelerated objects. The speech of non-accelerated
people reminds me of a either Twilight Zone episode or a hypertime
movie, probably in B&W, but the name of it eludes me.

The mysticism of six, twelve, and sixty as an insight into time has
bugged me for years. Ever since this passage from Preistley's _Man and
Time_ came to my attention:

       The division of the day into 24 parts, all of equal length
    throughout the year, now seems to us inevitable. In the earliest
    civilizations, however, the hours were not of constant length.
    The Egyptians divided the daylight day into 12 parts, and the
    darkness into 12 more; but, as the length of daylight increased
    during the year, the 12 day light divisions were lengthened.
    The Babylonians followed a similar practice but divided daylight
    and darkness each into six parts, thus having a 12-hour day. But
    even by the fourth century BC the Chinese had established a
    system of 12 equal "double-hours," whereas the Japanese
    continued to use variable hours until the 19th century. Early
    Hebrew day-division only recognized six periods, three light
    and three dark. And the "day" itself began at different times
    among different peoples.

--
 ,-.                              There was a young lady named Bright
 \_/                              Whose speed was far faster than light;
{|||)<   Don Kuenz                   She set out one day
 / \                                 In a relative way
 `-'                              And returned on the previous night.

What you do speaks so loud that I can not hear what you say. - Emerson.

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