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This morning's crap idea.

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  This morning's crap idea. William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-08-19 12:57 -0400
    Re: This morning's crap idea. Shawn Wilson <ikonoqlast@gmail.com> - 2015-08-19 10:04 -0700
      Re: This morning's crap idea. Kay Shapero <kay@invalid.net> - 2015-08-19 23:40 -0700
    Re: This morning's crap idea. petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-08-19 10:07 -0700
      Re: This morning's crap idea. djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-08-19 17:16 +0000
    Re: This morning's crap idea. djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-08-19 17:11 +0000
      Re: This morning's crap idea. petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-08-19 10:17 -0700
      Re: This morning's crap idea. William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-08-19 13:40 -0400
        Re: This morning's crap idea. Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-08-19 11:22 -0700
          Re: This morning's crap idea. Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-08-19 17:19 -0700
        Re: This morning's crap idea. djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-08-19 20:06 +0000
          Re: This morning's crap idea. William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-08-19 16:35 -0400
          Re: This morning's crap idea. Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-08-20 04:35 +0000
            Re: This morning's crap idea. djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-08-20 13:44 +0000
              Re: This morning's crap idea. William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-08-20 09:55 -0400
                Re: This morning's crap idea. ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2015-08-20 14:26 +0000
                  Re: This morning's crap idea. William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-08-20 10:35 -0400
                    Re: This morning's crap idea. Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-08-20 13:12 -0400
                      Re: This morning's crap idea. "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-08-20 14:01 -0400
                        Re: This morning's crap idea. "Michael R N Dolbear" <me@privacy.net> - 2015-08-21 00:48 +0100
                      Re: This morning's crap idea. Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-08-20 18:18 -0700
                        Re: This morning's crap idea. ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2015-08-21 03:26 +0000
                Re: This morning's crap idea. Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-08-20 08:29 -0700
                  Re: This morning's crap idea. Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-08-20 19:09 +0000
                    Re: This morning's crap idea. Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-08-20 13:23 -0700
                      Re: This morning's crap idea. Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-08-20 23:19 +0000
                Re: This morning's crap idea. Richard Hershberger <rrhersh@gmail.com> - 2015-08-20 08:29 -0700
                Re: This morning's crap idea. Kay Shapero <kay@invalid.net> - 2015-08-20 16:34 -0700
                  Re: This morning's crap idea. Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-08-20 18:41 -0700
                  Re: This morning's crap idea. Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-08-21 18:31 +0100
                  Re: This morning's crap idea. goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2015-08-22 06:58 +0000
                    Re: This morning's crap idea. djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-08-22 13:46 +0000
                      Re: This morning's crap idea. "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-08-22 10:27 -0400
                        Re: This morning's crap idea. David Harmon <source@netcom.com> - 2015-08-22 16:04 -0700
                          Re: This morning's crap idea. Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-08-22 16:30 -0700
                            Re: This morning's crap idea. Shawn Wilson <ikonoqlast@gmail.com> - 2015-08-22 16:36 -0700
                              Re: This morning's crap idea. Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-08-22 17:53 -0700
                                Re: This morning's crap idea. Shawn Wilson <ikonoqlast@gmail.com> - 2015-08-23 14:56 -0700
                              Re: This morning's crap idea. Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-08-23 07:55 -0700
                                Re: This morning's crap idea. Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-08-23 08:00 -0700
                                Re: This morning's crap idea. wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-08-24 08:37 -0400
                                  Re: This morning's crap idea. Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-08-24 07:35 -0700
                          Re: This morning's crap idea. djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-08-23 00:47 +0000
                            Re: This morning's crap idea. William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-08-23 14:42 -0400
                              Re: This morning's crap idea. Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-08-23 13:13 -0700
                                Re: This morning's crap idea. William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-08-23 16:54 -0400
                                  Re: This morning's crap idea. Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2015-08-23 14:06 -0700
                                    Re: This morning's crap idea. William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-08-23 17:19 -0400
                          Re: This morning's crap idea. Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2015-08-22 20:11 -0500
    Re: This morning's crap idea. "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-08-19 17:46 -0400
      Re: This morning's crap idea. ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2015-08-20 00:23 +0000
      Re: This morning's crap idea. Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2015-08-20 10:01 -0700
        Re: This morning's crap idea. goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2015-08-21 08:24 +0000
    Re: This morning's crap idea. wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-08-19 20:34 -0400
      Re: This morning's crap idea. Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-08-19 20:59 -0600
        Re: This morning's crap idea. William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-08-20 10:00 -0400
          Re: This morning's crap idea. Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-08-20 22:25 -0700
            Re: This morning's crap idea. ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2015-08-21 05:40 +0000
            Re: This morning's crap idea. William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-08-21 11:21 -0400
    Re: This morning's crap idea. Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-08-20 15:24 -0700
    Re: This morning's crap idea. William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-08-27 15:40 -0400
    Re: This morning's crap idea. William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-19 10:37 -0400
      Re: This morning's crap idea. ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2015-10-19 14:45 +0000
        Re: This morning's crap idea. Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-10-19 07:52 -0700
      Re: This morning's crap idea. Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-10-19 17:19 -0400
        Re: This morning's crap idea. Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-10-19 16:09 -0700
          Re: This morning's crap idea. William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-20 01:02 -0400
          Re: This morning's crap idea. leif.roar@dimnakorr.com - 2015-10-20 03:52 -0500
      Re: This morning's crap idea. Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-10-20 21:18 -0700

Page 2 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4  Next page →

#420737

On 8/20/2015 10:12 AM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 10:35:08 -0400, William Vetter
> <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ted Nolantednolan> wrote:
>>> In article <mr4m4l$m62$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> William Vetter  <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>> In article <20150819b@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz  <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <mr2f0d$f46$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>> William Vetter  <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In article <mr2cek$4kn$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>>>> William Vetter  <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Has there ever been a story published where a lousy SF author
>>>>>>>>>> time-travels back to the Golden Age to throw his trunk stories over
>>>>>>>>>> the transom and into a 1930's slushpile?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There's something like it, a story by Harry Turtledove, let me
>>>>>>>>> look up the title.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Hindsight" also appears under the pseudonym Eric G Iverson in Analog
>>>>>> Science Fiction/Science Fact, Mid-December 1984. "Hindsight" reminds me
>>>>>> of "Bob Dylan, Troy Jonson, and the Speed Queen" by F Paul Wilson.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The travelers in both stories take rock music records and turntables
>>>>>> back with them in time. And both travelers plagiarize future works.
>>>>>> "Hindsight" has literature stolen while "Bob Dylan" has music stolen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The motives of the travelers also differ. "Hindsight" wants to save the
>>>>>> world, while "Bob Dylan" wants to be a rock star. Here's some dialog
>>>>>> from "Hindsight" for the lulz.
>>>>>>         A couple of people were already waiting by the post
>>>>>>     office boxes, and several more came in after Pete and
>>>>>>     McGregor. "They can't *all* be writers," Pete whispered
>>>>>>     behind his hand.
>>>>>>         The editor rolled his eyes. "You'd be amazed."
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Heh.  I can believe it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not *selling* writers, but *attempting* writers.
>>>>
>>>> I think that editors like to buy this sort of thing, that talks about
>>>> their lives, but I'm not sure readers want to see it particularly.  A
>>>> lot of stuff like this appears in small press magazines...the editor
>>>> suffers under a curse that forces her to read all the slush, things
>>>> like that.
>>>
>>> FWIF, I think the story was in a "Kelvin Throop" issue of Analog.
>>
>> The curse one I think of was in 1990's Fantastic or Weird Tales or
>> Absolute Magnitude or one of those, and I think the title was even
>> "Slush," but there are a lot when the slushpile comes alive and
>> attacks, something like that.
>
> The attacking slushpile was in "It Came from the Slushpile."  Don't
> remember where it first appeared.
>
The slush pile, obviously.  :P

-- 
Veni, vidi, snarki.

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#420741

In article <55d67c65$0$1709$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
Dimensional Traveler  <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>On 8/20/2015 10:12 AM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>> On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 10:35:08 -0400, William Vetter
>> <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ted Nolantednolan> wrote:
>>>> In article <mr4m4l$m62$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> William Vetter  <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>>> In article <20150819b@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz  <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In article <mr2f0d$f46$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>>> William Vetter  <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In article <mr2cek$4kn$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>>>>> William Vetter  <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Has there ever been a story published where a lousy SF author
>>>>>>>>>>> time-travels back to the Golden Age to throw his trunk stories over
>>>>>>>>>>> the transom and into a 1930's slushpile?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There's something like it, a story by Harry Turtledove, let me
>>>>>>>>>> look up the title.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Hindsight" also appears under the pseudonym Eric G Iverson in Analog
>>>>>>> Science Fiction/Science Fact, Mid-December 1984. "Hindsight" reminds me
>>>>>>> of "Bob Dylan, Troy Jonson, and the Speed Queen" by F Paul Wilson.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The travelers in both stories take rock music records and turntables
>>>>>>> back with them in time. And both travelers plagiarize future works.
>>>>>>> "Hindsight" has literature stolen while "Bob Dylan" has music stolen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The motives of the travelers also differ. "Hindsight" wants to save the
>>>>>>> world, while "Bob Dylan" wants to be a rock star. Here's some dialog
>>>>>>> from "Hindsight" for the lulz.
>>>>>>>         A couple of people were already waiting by the post
>>>>>>>     office boxes, and several more came in after Pete and
>>>>>>>     McGregor. "They can't *all* be writers," Pete whispered
>>>>>>>     behind his hand.
>>>>>>>         The editor rolled his eyes. "You'd be amazed."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Heh.  I can believe it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not *selling* writers, but *attempting* writers.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that editors like to buy this sort of thing, that talks about
>>>>> their lives, but I'm not sure readers want to see it particularly.  A
>>>>> lot of stuff like this appears in small press magazines...the editor
>>>>> suffers under a curse that forces her to read all the slush, things
>>>>> like that.
>>>>
>>>> FWIF, I think the story was in a "Kelvin Throop" issue of Analog.
>>>
>>> The curse one I think of was in 1990's Fantastic or Weird Tales or
>>> Absolute Magnitude or one of those, and I think the title was even
>>> "Slush," but there are a lot when the slushpile comes alive and
>>> attacks, something like that.
>>
>> The attacking slushpile was in "It Came from the Slushpile."  Don't
>> remember where it first appeared.
>>
>The slush pile, obviously.  :P
>

Come to think of it, I put a few slushpile licks into _Hell On High_:



     The demon smirked knowingly.  "Welcome," he  said,  "to
     the  Library of Lost Books.  I am Lucien, your guide to
     the stacks.  How may I assist you?"

     Rhea looked at Jack and shrugged.  It  was  up  to  him
     then:   There  was very little that didn't interest him
     at least somewhat, but they were on a day  trip  not  a
     camping expedition.  First things first.  "Science fic-
     tion," he said, "from the last two hundred years."

     "Very good," Lucien said and steepled  his  fingers  in
     thought for a moment.  "This way please."

     They had entered through the doors in what  Jack  still
     thought of as first gear.  The demon lead them south to
     the central corridor, then east towards the last  wing.
     He  didn't offer any running commentary, in fact didn't
     look back at them at all.  Jack and Rhea were  left  to
     make what guesses they could about all the statuary and
     exhibits they passed in the spacious hallway.  "Fertil-
     ity goddess?"  Jack speculated about a blatantly immod-
     est little  statue  perched  lustily  on  an  otherwise
     somber table.

     "Or  a  prehistoric  business  card,"  Rhea  responded.
     "Maybe  the  glyphs  on  the tummy say For a good time,
     call Basheeba, third cave on the left past the mastodon
     skeleton. 'I'll make you Homo Errectus'.

     As they left the sections of  rock  carvings  and  clay
     tablets,  the smell of musty paper and parchment gradu-
     ally became overpowering.  It seemed to Jack that  they
     had  been  walking much further than was possible given
     what he had seen of  the  building  from  the  outside.
     "TARDIS," he murmured to Rhea.

     "What?"

     "Time And Relative Dimension in Space.  It's bigger  on
     the inside."  He considered.  "Like my mother's pocket-
     book."

     Finally Lucien brought them to the end of the hall, and
     ushered  them  north  into  the  fifth gear area.  They
     passed countless rows of  shelves  arrayed  with  every
     type  of  book, from leather-bound Victorian volumes to
     CD-ROMS and chips.  Their guide opened the  door  to  a
     side  room and waved them ahead.  "We have arrived," he
     said.

     Jack looked around.  The  room  was  divided  into  two
     parts by a center aisle.  Across the aisle to the left,
     poorly lighted shelves stretched on almost as far as he
     could  see,  while to the right a compact group of well
     lighted, dust free shelves beckoned invitingly.

     "What's the difference," Rhea  asked  pointing  to  the
     left.

     Lucien took off his  glasses  and  wiped  them  medita-
     tively.  "Those books are lost because they were unpub-
     lishable, unsubmitted or didn't find the right editor."

     "My God," Jack said, "It's the grand, cumulative slush-
     pile of SF!"

     Rhea grabbed his arm.  "Be afraid," she said, "be  very
     afraid."

     "Indeed," Lucien agreed, "It's the largest such for any
     of  our genres.  Seemingly of every two people who read
     science fiction, one of them has a bad book to  contri-
     bute to it."

     Fascinated, Jack walked to the first shelf  and  picked
     up  a  dusty  folder.  Inside, the cover page was dated
     May 7 1843 in precise early Victorian handwriting.   He
     turned to the last page and read: Whereat the man said,
     'Good lady, I call myself Adam.  And how might  I  pol-
     itely  address  myself  to  you?   Upon which words the
     woman responded, 'Good sir, I have no other  name  than
     Eve.

     Jack shuddered and put the  manuscript  down.   "Not  a
     book that should be put aside lightly," he quoted, "but
     rather one which should be hurled with great force."

     "And on the other side?" Rhea asked.

     "Books by known authors," Lucien said, "or  good  ones.
     Lost  due to fire, war, the post or what have you.  Not
     nearly as big a set."  He put his glasses back  on  and
     settled  them firmly on his nose.  The lenses magnified
     his distinctly demonic square pupils.  "Now  then,"  he
     said,  "there  is  a bell pull in the wall by the door.
     Do pull it when you are done here, and I  shall  escort
     you out, but for now I must attend to other business."

     "Thank you," Jack said automatically.

     "No thanks are necessary," the demon said  primly,  and
     disappeared with a puff of imploding air.

     "Well," Rhea said, looking around, "I  guess  we're  on
     our own."

     Jack was  already  rifling  through  the  good  stacks.
     "Yep," he agreed happily.  "Hey!"  he pulled a book and
     leafed through it rapidly,  then  turned  back  to  the
     first  page  and  started reading.  Before long, he was
     chuckling, then laughing out loud.

     Rhea moved to look over his shoulder.   "What  is  it?"
     she asked.

     "It's the sequel to The Witches of Karres," Jack  said.
     The  one  Schmitz  lost  when  he  moved.  See what the
     Leewit does here?"   He  pointed,  and  soon  Rhea  was
     laughing  too.   He put the book aside with regret:  So
     little time.  One day he, or  someone,  would  have  to
     come in with a scanner.
-- 
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

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#420684

On Thursday, August 20, 2015 at 9:55:11 AM UTC-4, William Vetter wrote:
> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > In article <20150819b@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz  <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
> >>> In article <mr2f0d$f46$1@dont-email.me>,
> >>> William Vetter  <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >>>>> In article <mr2cek$4kn$1@dont-email.me>,
> >>>>> William Vetter  <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> Has there ever been a story published where a lousy SF author
> >>>>>> time-travels back to the Golden Age to throw his trunk stories over the
> >>>>>> transom and into a 1930's slushpile?
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> There's something like it, a story by Harry Turtledove, let me
> >>>>> look up the title.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> ...
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> The title is "Hindsight," and it's collected in _Kaleidoscope_.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Ah, see, I wake up with an idea that I think is so crappy, I might as
> >>>> well post it on usenet; and then you're telling me some guy got a
> >>>> publication out of it.  Make my day, why don't cha.
> >>> 
> >>> Well, you weren't very far off.  It's merely that the writer was
> >>> not lousy, and, face it, in the Golden Age really lousy writing
> >>> would probably not get bought either.
> >>> 
> >>> At one point the 1950s writer says, "It's an old theme, go back
> >>> in time and make a fortune..." and the time-traveler says, "A
> >>> fortune?  At three cents a word?"
> >>> 
> >>> The nice thing about "Hindsight" is that Turtledove remembers
> >>> 1950s California in detail, as I do, and put a lot of little
> >>> details in and got them right.
> >> 
> >> Thank you sharing Dorothy.
> >> 
> >> "Hindsight" also appears under the pseudonym Eric G Iverson in Analog
> >> Science Fiction/Science Fact, Mid-December 1984. "Hindsight" reminds me
> >> of "Bob Dylan, Troy Jonson, and the Speed Queen" by F Paul Wilson.
> >> 
> >> The travelers in both stories take rock music records and turntables
> >> back with them in time. And both travelers plagiarize future works.
> >> "Hindsight" has literature stolen while "Bob Dylan" has music stolen.
> >> 
> >> The motives of the travelers also differ. "Hindsight" wants to save the
> >> world, while "Bob Dylan" wants to be a rock star.

Does "Bob Dylan" have his own music stolen, or the stuff he put his name 
on that was recycled folk tunes [For example: Words of "With God On Our
Side" but tune from the folk ballad "The Merry month Of May" by way
of Dominic Behan's "The Patriot Game." Or the tune of "Nottamun Town"]
is used for "Masters of War.]

More recent "borrowing" pointed out, here:

http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/12/bob-dylan-and-plagiarism/

[quote]

Modern Times was notable in that it saw Dylan make considerable use of the poems of Confederate Poet Henry Timrod as lyrical fodder. Many of Dylan's lyrical constructions and exact phrasings were shown to be direct borrows from Timrod, as well as from other sources including the Ovid. Further, the songs seemed to lack focus and felt as though they were simply assembled from snippets of various sources rather than carrying the crisper narratives that characterized Dylan's earlier work.

The liner notes carried no notation or footnotes on sources. Indeed, the songs were credited as "Words and music by Bob Dylan" a point that was particularly glaring as almost every single song on the album was a reworking of an old blues, jazz or R & B number. For example, "Rollin' and Tumblin'" was little more than the addendum of some new lyrics to the Muddy Waters' arrangement of the blues standard of the same name, "Beyond the Horizon" was identical musically and similar lyrically to "Red Sails In The Sunset", "When the Deal Goes Down" was musically identical to the Bing Crosby hit "Where The Blue of the Night (Meets The Gold Of The Day)", "Thunder on the Mountain" and "When the Levee Breaks" were borrowed Memphis Minnie numbers, "Ain't Talkin'" a remake of the Stanley Brothers song "River of Regret" and so on. While some of this can be thought of Dylan's use of the folk tradition, the decision to credit the songs both lyrically and musically to himself is telling. In light of Dylan's satellite radio program, it is strange that Dylan would not opt to credit this music to its writers, some of whom are still alive if not living in obscurity and likely could stand to earn royalties from their work following it's reuse.

[/quote]

It continues to critique parts of his memoir, "Chronicles," for lifting
from previous works.

Writing new lyrics to old folk tunes that no one knows who wrote, and would be long out of copyright even if we did, is one thing.  Grabbing the work of living
authors due royalties is another.  Even if the source material is in the public
domain, the handsome thing to do is to note the original version in the credits
of the work.

> >> Here's some dialog
> >> from "Hindsight" for the lulz.

> >>        A couple of people were already waiting by the post
> >>    office boxes, and several more came in after Pete and
> >>    McGregor. "They can't *all* be writers," Pete whispered
> >>    behind his hand.
> >>        The editor rolled his eyes. "You'd be amazed."
> >> 
> >
> > Heh.  I can believe it.
> >
> > Not *selling* writers, but *attempting* writers.
> 
> I think that editors like to buy this sort of thing, that talks about 
> their lives, but I'm not sure readers want to see it particularly.  A 
> lot of stuff like this appears in small press magazines...the editor 
> suffers under a curse that forces her to read all the slush, things 
> like that.

Gaah! How many second-person-omniscient-middle-aged-English-
professor-having-midlife-crisis-and-an-affair-with-a-student 
tales could one read before defenestrating oneself?

Kevin R

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#420715

Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, August 20, 2015 at 9:55:11 AM UTC-4, William Vetter wrote:
>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> > In article <20150819b@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz  <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> >>> In article <mr2f0d$f46$1@dont-email.me>,
>> >>> William Vetter  <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> >>>>> In article <mr2cek$4kn$1@dont-email.me>,
>> >>>>> William Vetter  <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>> Has there ever been a story published where a lousy SF author
>> >>>>>> time-travels back to the Golden Age to throw his trunk stories over the
>> >>>>>> transom and into a 1930's slushpile?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> There's something like it, a story by Harry Turtledove, let me
>> >>>>> look up the title.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ...
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The title is "Hindsight," and it's collected in _Kaleidoscope_.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Ah, see, I wake up with an idea that I think is so crappy, I might as
>> >>>> well post it on usenet; and then you're telling me some guy got a
>> >>>> publication out of it.  Make my day, why don't cha.
>> >>>
>> >>> Well, you weren't very far off.  It's merely that the writer was
>> >>> not lousy, and, face it, in the Golden Age really lousy writing
>> >>> would probably not get bought either.
>> >>>
>> >>> At one point the 1950s writer says, "It's an old theme, go back
>> >>> in time and make a fortune..." and the time-traveler says, "A
>> >>> fortune?  At three cents a word?"
>> >>>
>> >>> The nice thing about "Hindsight" is that Turtledove remembers
>> >>> 1950s California in detail, as I do, and put a lot of little
>> >>> details in and got them right.
>> >>
>> >> Thank you sharing Dorothy.
>> >>
>> >> "Hindsight" also appears under the pseudonym Eric G Iverson in Analog
>> >> Science Fiction/Science Fact, Mid-December 1984. "Hindsight" reminds me
>> >> of "Bob Dylan, Troy Jonson, and the Speed Queen" by F Paul Wilson.
>> >>
>> >> The travelers in both stories take rock music records and turntables
>> >> back with them in time. And both travelers plagiarize future works.
>> >> "Hindsight" has literature stolen while "Bob Dylan" has music stolen.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The motives of the travelers also differ. "Hindsight" wants to save the
>> >> world, while "Bob Dylan" wants to be a rock star.
>
> Does "Bob Dylan" have his own music stolen, or the stuff he put his name
> on that was recycled folk tunes [For example: Words of "With God On Our
> Side" but tune from the folk ballad "The Merry month Of May" by way
> of Dominic Behan's "The Patriot Game." Or the tune of "Nottamun Town"]
> is used for "Masters of War.]

The wannabe rock star hopes to arrange things so that Dylan picks him
over the Byrds for the upcoming debut cover of "Mr Tamborine Man." To
suitably impress Dylan the wannabe plays "originals" such as "Jumping
Jack Flash," "Summer in the City," "Taxman," "Bad Moon Rising," "Rikki
Don't Lose That Number," "Statesboro Blues," "American Tune," "Won't Get
Fooled Again," "Life During Wartime," and so on at a local club until a
suitably impressed Dylan shows up to catch wannabe's act. And that's
when the fun begins. :)

--
 ,-.                              There was a young lady named Bright
 \_/                              Whose speed was far faster than light;
{|||)<   Don Kuenz KB7RPU            She set out one day
 / \                                 In a relative way
 `-'                              And returned on the previous night.

What you do speaks so loud that I can not hear what you say. - Emerson.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#420718

On Thursday, August 20, 2015 at 3:11:13 PM UTC-4, Don Kuenz wrote:
> Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 20, 2015 at 9:55:11 AM UTC-4, William Vetter wrote:
> >> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> > In article <20150819b@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz  <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
> >> >>> In article <mr2f0d$f46$1@dont-email.me>,
> >> >>> William Vetter  <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> >>>>> In article <mr2cek$4kn$1@dont-email.me>,
> >> >>>>> William Vetter  <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>>>> Has there ever been a story published where a lousy SF author
> >> >>>>>> time-travels back to the Golden Age to throw his trunk stories over the
> >> >>>>>> transom and into a 1930's slushpile?
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> There's something like it, a story by Harry Turtledove, let me
> >> >>>>> look up the title.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> ...
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> The title is "Hindsight," and it's collected in _Kaleidoscope_.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Ah, see, I wake up with an idea that I think is so crappy, I might as
> >> >>>> well post it on usenet; and then you're telling me some guy got a
> >> >>>> publication out of it.  Make my day, why don't cha.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Well, you weren't very far off.  It's merely that the writer was
> >> >>> not lousy, and, face it, in the Golden Age really lousy writing
> >> >>> would probably not get bought either.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> At one point the 1950s writer says, "It's an old theme, go back
> >> >>> in time and make a fortune..." and the time-traveler says, "A
> >> >>> fortune?  At three cents a word?"
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The nice thing about "Hindsight" is that Turtledove remembers
> >> >>> 1950s California in detail, as I do, and put a lot of little
> >> >>> details in and got them right.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thank you sharing Dorothy.
> >> >>
> >> >> "Hindsight" also appears under the pseudonym Eric G Iverson in Analog
> >> >> Science Fiction/Science Fact, Mid-December 1984. "Hindsight" reminds me
> >> >> of "Bob Dylan, Troy Jonson, and the Speed Queen" by F Paul Wilson.
> >> >>
> >> >> The travelers in both stories take rock music records and turntables
> >> >> back with them in time. And both travelers plagiarize future works.
> >> >> "Hindsight" has literature stolen while "Bob Dylan" has music stolen.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> The motives of the travelers also differ. "Hindsight" wants to save the
> >> >> world, while "Bob Dylan" wants to be a rock star.
> >
> > Does "Bob Dylan" have his own music stolen, or the stuff he put his name
> > on that was recycled folk tunes [For example: Words of "With God On Our
> > Side" but tune from the folk ballad "The Merry month Of May" by way
> > of Dominic Behan's "The Patriot Game." Or the tune of "Nottamun Town"]
> > is used for "Masters of War.]
> 
> The wannabe rock star hopes to arrange things so that Dylan picks him
> over the Byrds for the upcoming debut cover of "Mr Tamborine Man."

OK, 1965.

> To suitably impress Dylan the wannabe plays "originals" such as "Jumping
> Jack Flash [1968]," "Summer in the City[1966] ," [1966] "Taxman," [1966] 
> "Bad Moon Rising [1969]," "Rikki Don't Lose That Number [1974]," 
> "Statesboro Blues [1928*]," "American Tune[1973] ," "Won't Get
> Fooled Again [1971]," "Life During Wartime [1979]," and so on at 
> a local club until a
> suitably impressed Dylan shows up to catch wannabe's act. And that's
> when the fun begins. :)

*Does alt-Zimmerman twig to the phony when he hears the fellow trying to
pass off Blind Wille McTell's song as his own, or does he figure they are
magpies of a feather?

https://archive.org/details/StatesboroBlues_822

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statesboro_Blues

Note how McTell "borrowed" from Sippoie Wallace.

Kevin R

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#420730

Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, August 20, 2015 at 3:11:13 PM UTC-4, Don Kuenz wrote:
>> Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> > On Thursday, August 20, 2015 at 9:55:11 AM UTC-4, William Vetter wrote:
>> >> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> >> > In article <20150819b@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz  <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> In article <mr2f0d$f46$1@dont-email.me>,
>> >> >>> William Vetter  <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> >> >>>>> In article <mr2cek$4kn$1@dont-email.me>,
>> >> >>>>> William Vetter  <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>> Has there ever been a story published where a lousy SF author
>> >> >>>>>> time-travels back to the Golden Age to throw his trunk stories over the
>> >> >>>>>> transom and into a 1930's slushpile?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> There's something like it, a story by Harry Turtledove, let me
>> >> >>>>> look up the title.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> ...
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> The title is "Hindsight," and it's collected in _Kaleidoscope_.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Ah, see, I wake up with an idea that I think is so crappy, I might as
>> >> >>>> well post it on usenet; and then you're telling me some guy got a
>> >> >>>> publication out of it.  Make my day, why don't cha.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Well, you weren't very far off.  It's merely that the writer was
>> >> >>> not lousy, and, face it, in the Golden Age really lousy writing
>> >> >>> would probably not get bought either.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> At one point the 1950s writer says, "It's an old theme, go back
>> >> >>> in time and make a fortune..." and the time-traveler says, "A
>> >> >>> fortune?  At three cents a word?"
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> The nice thing about "Hindsight" is that Turtledove remembers
>> >> >>> 1950s California in detail, as I do, and put a lot of little
>> >> >>> details in and got them right.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thank you sharing Dorothy.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Hindsight" also appears under the pseudonym Eric G Iverson in Analog
>> >> >> Science Fiction/Science Fact, Mid-December 1984. "Hindsight" reminds me
>> >> >> of "Bob Dylan, Troy Jonson, and the Speed Queen" by F Paul Wilson.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The travelers in both stories take rock music records and turntables
>> >> >> back with them in time. And both travelers plagiarize future works.
>> >> >> "Hindsight" has literature stolen while "Bob Dylan" has music stolen.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The motives of the travelers also differ. "Hindsight" wants to save the
>> >> >> world, while "Bob Dylan" wants to be a rock star.
>> >
>> > Does "Bob Dylan" have his own music stolen, or the stuff he put his name
>> > on that was recycled folk tunes [For example: Words of "With God On Our
>> > Side" but tune from the folk ballad "The Merry month Of May" by way
>> > of Dominic Behan's "The Patriot Game." Or the tune of "Nottamun Town"]
>> > is used for "Masters of War.]
>>
>> The wannabe rock star hopes to arrange things so that Dylan picks him
>> over the Byrds for the upcoming debut cover of "Mr Tamborine Man."
>
> OK, 1965.
>
>> To suitably impress Dylan the wannabe plays "originals" such as "Jumping
>> Jack Flash [1968]," "Summer in the City[1966] ," [1966] "Taxman," [1966]
>> "Bad Moon Rising [1969]," "Rikki Don't Lose That Number [1974],"
>> "Statesboro Blues [1928*]," "American Tune[1973] ," "Won't Get
>> Fooled Again [1971]," "Life During Wartime [1979]," and so on at
>> a local club until a
>> suitably impressed Dylan shows up to catch wannabe's act. And that's
>> when the fun begins. :)
>
> *Does alt-Zimmerman twig to the phony when he hears the fellow trying to
> pass off Blind Wille McTell's song as his own, or does he figure they are
> magpies of a feather?
>
> https://archive.org/details/StatesboroBlues_822
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statesboro_Blues
>
> Note how McTell "borrowed" from Sippoie Wallace.

spoiler space

The wannabe gets busted when the speed queen (remember her?) stumbles
across Dylan's records in the secret room. Next she does what speed
queens do, she walks around Greenwich Village babbling about Dylan's
lost albums. At that point the story turns rather grim.

--
 ,-.                              There was a young lady named Bright
 \_/                              Whose speed was far faster than light;
{|||)<   Don Kuenz KB7RPU            She set out one day
 / \                                 In a relative way
 `-'                              And returned on the previous night.

What you do speaks so loud that I can not hear what you say. - Emerson.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#420685

On Thursday, August 20, 2015 at 9:55:11 AM UTC-4, William Vetter wrote:
> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > In article <20150819b@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz  <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
> >>> In article <mr2f0d$f46$1@dont-email.me>,
> >>> William Vetter  <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >>>>> In article <mr2cek$4kn$1@dont-email.me>,
> >>>>> William Vetter  <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> Has there ever been a story published where a lousy SF author
> >>>>>> time-travels back to the Golden Age to throw his trunk stories over the
> >>>>>> transom and into a 1930's slushpile?
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> There's something like it, a story by Harry Turtledove, let me
> >>>>> look up the title.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> ...
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> The title is "Hindsight," and it's collected in _Kaleidoscope_.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Ah, see, I wake up with an idea that I think is so crappy, I might as
> >>>> well post it on usenet; and then you're telling me some guy got a
> >>>> publication out of it.  Make my day, why don't cha.
> >>> 
> >>> Well, you weren't very far off.  It's merely that the writer was
> >>> not lousy, and, face it, in the Golden Age really lousy writing
> >>> would probably not get bought either.
> >>> 
> >>> At one point the 1950s writer says, "It's an old theme, go back
> >>> in time and make a fortune..." and the time-traveler says, "A
> >>> fortune?  At three cents a word?"
> >>> 
> >>> The nice thing about "Hindsight" is that Turtledove remembers
> >>> 1950s California in detail, as I do, and put a lot of little
> >>> details in and got them right.
> >> 
> >> Thank you sharing Dorothy.
> >> 
> >> "Hindsight" also appears under the pseudonym Eric G Iverson in Analog
> >> Science Fiction/Science Fact, Mid-December 1984. "Hindsight" reminds me
> >> of "Bob Dylan, Troy Jonson, and the Speed Queen" by F Paul Wilson.
> >> 
> >> The travelers in both stories take rock music records and turntables
> >> back with them in time. And both travelers plagiarize future works.
> >> "Hindsight" has literature stolen while "Bob Dylan" has music stolen.
> >> 
> >> The motives of the travelers also differ. "Hindsight" wants to save the
> >> world, while "Bob Dylan" wants to be a rock star. Here's some dialog
> >> from "Hindsight" for the lulz.
> >>        A couple of people were already waiting by the post
> >>    office boxes, and several more came in after Pete and
> >>    McGregor. "They can't *all* be writers," Pete whispered
> >>    behind his hand.
> >>        The editor rolled his eyes. "You'd be amazed."
> >> 
> >
> > Heh.  I can believe it.
> >
> > Not *selling* writers, but *attempting* writers.
> 
> I think that editors like to buy this sort of thing, that talks about 
> their lives, but I'm not sure readers want to see it particularly.  A 
> lot of stuff like this appears in small press magazines...the editor 
> suffers under a curse that forces her to read all the slush, things 
> like that.

FWIW, I remembered the story.  I read it probably in the Turtledove collection, or possibly in the original magazine publication.  Either way it is a good bet that I haven't read it in a quarter century, but it stuck.  I particularly remember the discussion about the paper, which was perforated on the sides since the printer technology when the story was written still had to strips on either side with the holes.  

Richard R. Hershberger

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#420732

In article <mr4m4l$m62$1@dont-email.me>, mdhangton@gmail.com says...
> 
> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> >> 
> >
> > Heh.  I can believe it.
> >
> > Not *selling* writers, but *attempting* writers.
> 
> I think that editors like to buy this sort of thing, that talks about 
> their lives, but I'm not sure readers want to see it particularly.  A 
> lot of stuff like this appears in small press magazines...the editor 
> suffers under a curse that forces her to read all the slush, things 
> like that.

Don't recall the author or title but I do remember being amused by a 
tale in which a writer kept sending an editor an amazing variety of pact 
with the devil stories which the latter kept turning down because they 
were a drug on the market. It finally turned out the former had actually 
MADE such a deal and could only get out of it if he succeeded.  OTOH I 
don't recall how it came out.  (I do recall that one rejected title was 
"Packed with the Devilfish"...)

-- 

Kay Shapero
Address munged, try my first name at kayshapero dot net.

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#420738

In article <MPG.304003c4de07d9ef98991c@news.eternal-september.org>,
 Kay Shapero <kay@invalid.net> wrote:

> In article <mr4m4l$m62$1@dont-email.me>, mdhangton@gmail.com says...
> > 
> > Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> 
> > >> 
> > >
> > > Heh.  I can believe it.
> > >
> > > Not *selling* writers, but *attempting* writers.
> > 
> > I think that editors like to buy this sort of thing, that talks about 
> > their lives, but I'm not sure readers want to see it particularly.  A 
> > lot of stuff like this appears in small press magazines...the editor 
> > suffers under a curse that forces her to read all the slush, things 
> > like that.
> 
> Don't recall the author or title but I do remember being amused by a 
> tale in which a writer kept sending an editor an amazing variety of pact 
> with the devil stories which the latter kept turning down because they 
> were a drug on the market. It finally turned out the former had actually 
> MADE such a deal and could only get out of it if he succeeded.  OTOH I 
> don't recall how it came out.  (I do recall that one rejected title was 
> "Packed with the Devilfish"...)

John Varley wrote that one, but I can't recall the title either - lemme 
see... where's my copy of The John Varley Reader - I know beyond a doubt 
it's in there. But which box is it in... <sigh>

-- 
Security provided by Mssrs Smith and/or Wesson. Brought to you by the letter Q

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#420779

On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 16:34:06 -0700, Kay Shapero <kay@invalid.net>
wrote:

>In article <mr4m4l$m62$1@dont-email.me>, mdhangton@gmail.com says...
>> 
>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>> >> 
>> >
>> > Heh.  I can believe it.
>> >
>> > Not *selling* writers, but *attempting* writers.
>> 
>> I think that editors like to buy this sort of thing, that talks about 
>> their lives, but I'm not sure readers want to see it particularly.  A 
>> lot of stuff like this appears in small press magazines...the editor 
>> suffers under a curse that forces her to read all the slush, things 
>> like that.
>
>Don't recall the author or title but I do remember being amused by a 
>tale in which a writer kept sending an editor an amazing variety of pact 
>with the devil stories which the latter kept turning down because they 
>were a drug on the market. It finally turned out the former had actually 
>MADE such a deal and could only get out of it if he succeeded.

"If at first you don't succeed, to hell with it!" by Charles E Fritch.

>OTOH I 
>don't recall how it came out.  (I do recall that one rejected title was 
>"Packed with the Devilfish"...)

The final correspondence with the author is a rejection from a
publishing house in Hell for yet another "pact with the editor" story.

-- 
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)

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#420799

In article <MPG.304003c4de07d9ef98991c@news.eternal-september.org>,
Kay Shapero  <kay@invalid.net> wrote:
>Don't recall the author or title but I do remember being amused by a 
>tale in which a writer kept sending an editor an amazing variety of pact 
>with the devil stories which the latter kept turning down because they 
>were a drug on the market. It finally turned out the former had actually 
>MADE such a deal and could only get out of it if he succeeded.  OTOH I 
>don't recall how it came out.  (I do recall that one rejected title was 
>"Packed with the Devilfish"...)

"Absolutely the Last, This Is It, No More, the Final Pact With the 
Devil Story" by Michael Armstrong, in the February 1981 _Fantasy and
Science Fiction_.

The writer ultimately managed to sell a story to either Harlan Ellison
or an HE expy.  (I forget exactly which it was.)  And the anthology
was just about to come out...but wouldn't you know it, an unfortunate
accident delayed publication of the book.

(The story was in one of the first issues of _F&SF_ that I ever
bought off the newsstand.  I was 12.)
  
-- 
   David Goldfarb          |"The Carson/Johnson Law of Human Behavior:
goldfarbdj@gmail.com       |  80% of all questions that begin with the word
goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu  |  'why' can be answered with the phrase
                           |  'People are stupid.'"   -- Ted Faber 

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#420814

In article <ntH20v.w4F@kithrup.com>,
David Goldfarb <goldfarbdj@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>The writer ultimately managed to sell a story to either Harlan Ellison
>or an HE expy.

What's expy?

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

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#420815

On 8/22/15 9:46 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <ntH20v.w4F@kithrup.com>,
> David Goldfarb <goldfarbdj@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The writer ultimately managed to sell a story to either Harlan Ellison
>> or an HE expy.
>
> What's expy?
>

	Short for "exported character", it's a character who is an obvious 
duplicate of some other real person or copyrighted character, just with 
a different name and enough tweaks to keep from being sued. Marvel 
Comics has about half a dozen Superman expies, for instance, most 
prominent being "Gladiator" (the name of the story on which the original 
Superman was based) who has an outfit very similar to Superman's with 
some color changes, a "G" that's contoured rather like a certain "S" 
symbol, a similar face but with a high Mohawk hairdo, and pretty much 
identical powers.

	An Expy of Harlan Ellison would be someone with a similar name, 
description/key features obviously drawn from the real thing, etc.


-- 
                      Sea Wasp
                        /^\
                        ;;;	
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com  Blog: 
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

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#420840

On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 10:27:00 -0400 in rec.arts.sf.written, "Sea Wasp
(Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote,
>On 8/22/15 9:46 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <ntH20v.w4F@kithrup.com>,
>> David Goldfarb <goldfarbdj@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The writer ultimately managed to sell a story to either Harlan Ellison
>>> or an HE expy.
>>
>> What's expy?
>
>	Short for "exported character", it's a character who is an obvious 
>duplicate of some other real person or copyrighted character, just with 
>a different name and enough tweaks to keep from being sued.

Wouldn't that be an "imported character"?

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#420842

On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 7:05:04 PM UTC-4, David Harmon wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 10:27:00 -0400 in rec.arts.sf.written, "Sea Wasp
> (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote,
> >On 8/22/15 9:46 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> In article <ntH20v.w4F@kithrup.com>,
> >> David Goldfarb <goldfarbdj@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The writer ultimately managed to sell a story to either Harlan Ellison
> >>> or an HE expy.
> >>
> >> What's expy?
> >
> >	Short for "exported character", it's a character who is an obvious 
> >duplicate of some other real person or copyrighted character, just with 
> >a different name and enough tweaks to keep from being sued.
> 
> Wouldn't that be an "imported character"?

That'd be an Impy, and the Impossible Man is a Mr Mxyzptlk Expy...

It's actually "No Celebrities Were Harmed," anyway, since
Harlan is arguably a real person.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoCelebritiesWereHarmed

If you had a whole novel about renamed real folks, it'd be a
"roman à clef."

Kevin R



Kevrob





or Alternate Company Equivalent

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#420843

On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 4:30:47 PM UTC-7, Kevrob wrote:


> That'd be an Impy, and the Impossible Man is a Mr Mxyzptlk Expy...


I saw a (DC) Comic once that all but flatly stated that the Impossible Man was how Mxyz got his jollies in another universe.  But I don't recall it being perfectly explicit that it was the Marvel universe they were showing.

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#420846

On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 7:36:43 PM UTC-4, Shawn Wilson wrote:
> On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 4:30:47 PM UTC-7, Kevrob wrote:
> 
> 
> > That'd be an Impy, and the Impossible Man is a Mr Mxyzptlk Expy...
> 
> 
> I saw a (DC) Comic once that all but flatly stated that the Impossible Man was how Mxyz got his jollies in another universe.  But I don't recall it being perfectly explicit that it was the Marvel universe they were showing.

Take a look at the artwork, blogged about, here:

http://www.comicscube.com/2013/06/easter-eggs-mxyzptlk-and-impossible-man.html

Part 1 of the story starts in SUPERMAN V2 #49, Nov 1990:

"Krisis of the Krimson Kryptonite"

http://www.comics.org/issue/48699/#261983

Collected under the same title as

http://www.comics.org/issue/349241/

Kevin R

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#420912

On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 5:53:49 PM UTC-7, Kevrob wrote:


> > > That'd be an Impy, and the Impossible Man is a Mr Mxyzptlk Expy...
> > 
> > 
> > I saw a (DC) Comic once that all but flatly stated that the Impossible Man was how Mxyz got his jollies in another universe.  But I don't recall it being perfectly explicit that it was the Marvel universe they were showing.
> 
> Take a look at the artwork, blogged about, here:
> 
> http://www.comicscube.com/2013/06/easter-eggs-mxyzptlk-and-impossible-man.html


Yep, exactly what I recall, except I wouldn't have gotten KKK from memory.  

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#420867

On Sunday, 23 August 2015 00:36:43 UTC+1, Shawn Wilson  wrote:
> On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 4:30:47 PM UTC-7, Kevrob wrote:
> > That'd be an Impy, and the Impossible Man is a Mr Mxyzptlk Expy...
> 
> I saw a (DC) Comic once that all but flatly stated that the 
> Impossible Man was how Mxyz got his jollies in another universe.  
> But I don't recall it being perfectly explicit that it was the 
> Marvel universe they were showing.

Post-Crisis, his first (I suppose) appearance looked a lot
like "The Beyonder" (Secret Wars II version).

I think that by definition, the Impossible Man stories 
never happened.

Then again, since The Beyonders got mad, /no/ Marvel stories
ever happened.

Which I suppose it pretty much accurate, give or take the
career of iconic Marvel character Pope John Paul II.

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#420868

On Sunday, August 23, 2015 at 10:55:59 AM UTC-4, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Sunday, 23 August 2015 00:36:43 UTC+1, Shawn Wilson  wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 4:30:47 PM UTC-7, Kevrob wrote:
> > > That'd be an Impy, and the Impossible Man is a Mr Mxyzptlk Expy...
> > 
> > I saw a (DC) Comic once that all but flatly stated that the 
> > Impossible Man was how Mxyz got his jollies in another universe.  
> > But I don't recall it being perfectly explicit that it was the 
> > Marvel universe they were showing.
> 
> Post-Crisis, his first (I suppose) appearance looked a lot
> like "The Beyonder" (Secret Wars II version).
> 
> I think that by definition, the Impossible Man stories 
> never happened.
> 
> Then again, since The Beyonders got mad, /no/ Marvel stories
> ever happened.
> 
> Which I suppose it pretty much accurate, give or take the
> career of iconic Marvel character Pope John Paul II.

In comics, nobody stays dead except /B/u/c/k/y/ Pope JPII.

Kevin R

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