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Groups > misc.phone.mobile.iphone > #193744 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-03-18 18:12 -0400 |
| Last post | 2025-03-26 11:09 +1300 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 231 — 20 participants |
Back to article view | Back to misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-18 18:12 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-20 09:14 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-20 12:23 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 13:44 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 13:43 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 19:50 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Mikey <Mikey.Smith@aol.invalid> - 2025-03-21 15:00 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-21 19:59 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 16:45 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 12:26 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 23:53 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 20:00 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-21 20:27 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-22 00:45 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 19:57 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 21:49 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-21 22:29 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 16:29 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 19:59 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 20:14 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 20:29 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-26 01:59 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-03-22 04:54 -0500
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 09:22 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-22 19:16 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 07:40 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-20 14:26 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 17:58 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-20 15:52 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 20:48 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 12:31 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-21 16:47 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 13:00 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 12:29 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-21 12:40 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 15:56 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-21 22:27 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 16:36 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-22 14:04 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 17:52 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-03-22 19:18 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 19:23 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-22 19:17 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 08:18 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-23 12:21 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:00 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 18:06 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:17 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 18:22 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:35 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 18:41 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:54 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 19:11 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-23 21:05 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:22 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 17:31 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-23 22:34 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-24 08:53 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-24 13:39 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-24 10:48 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-24 19:59 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 17:47 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-24 23:12 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 19:36 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:42 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 18:57 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-24 23:20 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 19:38 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:46 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-25 00:59 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 18:17 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-25 01:30 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:58 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 19:44 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 22:52 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:16 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 23:24 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:40 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 23:45 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:48 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:02 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 21:10 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:26 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-04-09 18:40 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-04-09 11:51 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-04-10 10:07 +1200
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-09 18:16 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-04-10 19:48 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:08 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 18:14 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-24 19:29 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:46 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:09 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-25 06:24 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 02:31 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-03-23 12:20 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:13 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-03-23 15:39 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 15:52 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 19:58 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 16:11 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 22:12 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-03-23 16:02 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 16:09 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 20:25 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 16:34 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:43 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-03-24 09:09 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-03-24 20:10 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 18:33 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:51 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 19:06 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 15:26 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 19:33 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:44 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 19:11 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:47 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:11 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 18:13 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:57 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 19:43 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 22:54 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:15 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 23:22 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:36 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 23:43 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:49 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:09 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 21:11 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:29 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Rudy Canoza <rc@j.kone.invalid> - 2025-03-25 02:32 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 02:41 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 18:27 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-04-04 16:55 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 20:08 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-04-04 17:10 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 20:21 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-04-04 23:11 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 02:50 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-04-05 16:06 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 16:17 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-04-05 20:42 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 07:42 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 08:07 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 15:44 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 12:46 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 15:59 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 13:11 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-07 08:57 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-04-05 15:49 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 16:16 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-06 01:26 +0000
Re: π³οΈβπApple requires too much money and sacrifice of controlπ³οΈβπ πππ»πΊπΉπ»ππ·πΊπJenπππ»πΊπΉπ»ππ·πΊπ Dershmendenderer ππ»πΊπΉπ»ππ·πΊπΆη¬πππ»πΊπΉπ»ππ·πΊπ <root@127.0.0.1> - 2025-04-06 03:18 +0000
Re: π³οΈβπApple requires too much money and sacrifice of controlπ³οΈβπ vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-06 03:35 +0000
Re: π³οΈβπApple requires too much money and sacrifice of controlπ³οΈβπ vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-06 04:31 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-22 19:17 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-23 03:15 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-23 18:01 +1300
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-23 18:08 +1300
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-23 05:37 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:45 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 23:33 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:46 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 19:13 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:47 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-25 00:52 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:59 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:48 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 19:43 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 22:28 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 19:44 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 08:43 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 08:48 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 08:12 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 04:20 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 18:48 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 14:54 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-25 17:24 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 20:33 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-25 18:03 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 21:19 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 07:40 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-26 08:36 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 20:15 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-27 10:05 +1300
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 17:43 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-26 19:05 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 19:17 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-27 02:25 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 19:49 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-27 03:30 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 11:57 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 20:15 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 16:18 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 07:45 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-27 08:41 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 12:20 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-28 00:44 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 21:20 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-27 18:26 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 21:53 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-27 22:42 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-28 01:45 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-28 07:50 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-28 02:08 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 22:16 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 12:06 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 18:11 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-28 00:43 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 21:18 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-28 08:26 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 14:58 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 15:13 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-26 02:09 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-21 20:33 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 00:00 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:06 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 21:09 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:25 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 10:13 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 10:20 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 11:01 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-26 02:05 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 08:47 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 10:35 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 10:41 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 11:04 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-26 11:09 +1300
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-26 11:16 +1300
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 18:53 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-26 11:09 +1300
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| From | Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-25 21:19 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <9sk6uj9b6bpf6e73f800arq8iqe070e0bu@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #193980 |
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >On 2025-03-25 17:33, Joel wrote: >> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>> On 2025-03-25 11:54, Joel wrote: >>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> the [Linux] OS us[ed] swap, when main RAM and cache >>>>>> saturated the 32 GB. >>>>> >>>>> That doesn't actually mean you *need* 32GB. >>>> >>>> Oh sure, I'll just rely on swap! Great, back to the 1990s, heh. >>> >>> What you showed was 25GB usage and some of that was caching. >>> >>> You were nowhere NEAR needing swap space. >> >> But if I *didn't* have the whole 32 GB, Alan, the RAM would get >> saturated rather quickly, leading to use of swap. >And yet you weren't able to show that. > >Weird, huh? What exactly do you want me to show? I'm telling you as a conscientious PC user, I know what's going on with my system and what resources are useful. 32 GB RAM is actually *less* than I could use, in theory, if I were obsessed, but it's a good amount for the time being, and I'm satisfied with what I have, for now. -- Joel W. Crump Amendment XIV Section 1. [...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
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| From | Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-26 07:40 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vs0b18$19k5o$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #193966 |
Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: > Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> the [Linux] OS us[ed] swap, when main RAM and cache >>> saturated the 32 GB. >> >> That doesn't actually mean you *need* 32GB. > > > Oh sure, I'll just rely on swap! Great, back to the 1990s, heh. The OS will always try to maximise RAM usage regardless of how much you have. In and of itself is not evidence of the need for that amount of RAM. In modern systems there's no noticeable difference when dipping into swap. Certainly not when flushing caches. PCI SSD and NVMe hardware are a world away from slow spinners of the 90s. Despite building your own PC (big deal!) you seem quite ignorant on how it works. Sounds like a Mac would actually be better for you. lol.
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-26 08:36 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mxSEP.104219$541.37800@fx47.iad> |
| In reply to | #193985 |
On 2025-03-26 03:40, Chris wrote: > Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: >> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>> the [Linux] OS us[ed] swap, when main RAM and cache >>>> saturated the 32 GB. >>> >>> That doesn't actually mean you *need* 32GB. >> >> >> Oh sure, I'll just rely on swap! Great, back to the 1990s, heh. > > The OS will always try to maximise RAM usage regardless of how much you > have. In and of itself is not evidence of the need for that amount of RAM. > > In modern systems there's no noticeable difference when dipping into swap. > Certainly not when flushing caches. PCI SSD and NVMe hardware are a world > away from slow spinners of the 90s. > > Despite building your own PC (big deal!) you seem quite ignorant on how it > works. Sounds like a Mac would actually be better for you. lol. I have to admit that I find it strange how Windows 11 uses 10GB of RAM to run the exact same software I use on Linux. In Linux, having Brave, Betterbird and Telegram open needs about 3GB. I understand that the operating system will use up as much RAM as it can but how the heck do those three applications need 10GB? -- God be with you, CrudeSausage John 14:6
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| From | Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-26 20:15 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vs1n9b$2h51b$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #193987 |
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: > On 2025-03-26 03:40, Chris wrote: >> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>>> the [Linux] OS us[ed] swap, when main RAM and cache >>>>> saturated the 32 GB. >>>> >>>> That doesn't actually mean you *need* 32GB. >>> >>> >>> Oh sure, I'll just rely on swap! Great, back to the 1990s, heh. >> >> The OS will always try to maximise RAM usage regardless of how much you >> have. In and of itself is not evidence of the need for that amount of RAM. >> >> In modern systems there's no noticeable difference when dipping into swap. >> Certainly not when flushing caches. PCI SSD and NVMe hardware are a world >> away from slow spinners of the 90s. >> >> Despite building your own PC (big deal!) you seem quite ignorant on how it >> works. Sounds like a Mac would actually be better for you. lol. > > I have to admit that I find it strange how Windows 11 uses 10GB of RAM > to run the exact same software I use on Linux. In Linux, having Brave, > Betterbird and Telegram open needs about 3GB. I understand that the > operating system will use up as much RAM as it can but how the heck do > those three applications need 10GB? OS overhead. Linux is much more efficient than Windows.
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| From | Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-27 10:05 +1300 |
| Message-ID | <vs1q6r$2jk05$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #193987 |
On 2025-03-26 12:36:33 +0000, CrudeSausage said: > On 2025-03-26 03:40, Chris wrote: >> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> the [Linux] OS us[ed] swap, when main RAM and cache >>>>> saturated the 32 GB. >>>> >>>> That doesn't actually mean you *need* 32GB. >>> >>> Oh sure, I'll just rely on swap! Great, back to the 1990s, heh. >> >> The OS will always try to maximise RAM usage regardless of how much you >> have. In and of itself is not evidence of the need for that amount of RAM. >> >> In modern systems there's no noticeable difference when dipping into swap. >> Certainly not when flushing caches. PCI SSD and NVMe hardware are a world >> away from slow spinners of the 90s. >> >> Despite building your own PC (big deal!) you seem quite ignorant on how it >> works. Sounds like a Mac would actually be better for you. lol. > > I have to admit that I find it strange how Windows 11 uses 10GB of RAM > to run the exact same software I use on Linux. In Linux, having Brave, > Betterbird and Telegram open needs about 3GB. I understand that the > operating system will use up as much RAM as it can but how the heck do > those three applications need 10GB? Because nobody at Microsoft has actual programming ability. Windows has been and always will be an ugly, useless, and highly inefficient operating systyem sold by a conman who simply steals or buys out every product they have ever made, from MS-DOS onwards.
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| From | Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-26 17:43 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <b2t8uj1mt9jkrvhhqrbo3i1909bmn908g9@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #193996 |
Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote: >User-Agent: Unison/2.2 A GUI Mac app. >> On 2025-03-26 03:40, Chris wrote: >>> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> the [Linux] OS us[ed] swap, when main RAM and cache >>>>>> saturated the 32 GB. >>>>> >>>>> That doesn't actually mean you *need* 32GB. >>>> >>>> Oh sure, I'll just rely on swap! Great, back to the 1990s, heh. >>> >>> The OS will always try to maximise RAM usage regardless of how much you >>> have. In and of itself is not evidence of the need for that amount of RAM. >>> >>> In modern systems there's no noticeable difference when dipping into swap. >>> Certainly not when flushing caches. PCI SSD and NVMe hardware are a world >>> away from slow spinners of the 90s. >>> >>> Despite building your own PC (big deal!) you seem quite ignorant on how it >>> works. Sounds like a Mac would actually be better for you. lol. >> >> I have to admit that I find it strange how Windows 11 uses 10GB of RAM >> to run the exact same software I use on Linux. In Linux, having Brave, >> Betterbird and Telegram open needs about 3GB. I understand that the >> operating system will use up as much RAM as it can but how the heck do >> those three applications need 10GB? > >Because nobody at Microsoft has actual programming ability. Windows has >been and always will be an ugly, useless, and highly inefficient >operating systyem sold by a conman who simply steals or buys out every >product they have ever made, from MS-DOS onwards. You really overstepped, with this one, Winblows is far more advanced than anything Apple actually created in their OS, they borrowed BSD's brain for the hard parts. The Apple-specific features of macOS are fairly laughable, in truth, although I can understand some people just prefer the platform, flushing money down the toilet to get it. -- Joel W. Crump Amendment XIV Section 1. [...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
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| From | Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-26 19:05 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <xxxxxx-1B0077.19052426032025@news.supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #193998 |
In article <b2t8uj1mt9jkrvhhqrbo3i1909bmn908g9@4ax.com>, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: > You really overstepped, with this one, Winblows is far more advanced > than anything Apple actually created in their OS, they borrowed BSD's > brain for the hard parts. The Apple-specific features of macOS are > fairly laughable, in truth, although I can understand some people just > prefer the platform, flushing money down the toilet to get it. So what then is Linux? That also "borrowed Unix's brain for the hard parts". The GUIs that Linux has come up with ARE laughable. Mostly bad copies of Windows. MacOS GUI is totally unique. Windows is an extremely primitive OS. In fact, it is the only fully proprietary OS remaining. Everything else is Unix-based. Linux, Android, iOS, MacOS, Apple watches. Linux/Unix even runs on mainframes. Windows runs only on Windows PC. Nothing else. Because it is neither portable nor scalable. Unix was both from the very beginning. Look how long it has taken to get Windows running on Arm. And it is still not perfect. But MacOS has gone thru 3 processor changes. PPC to Intel to Arm. All very well done. Because Unix is scalable and portable. And you flush money down the toilet to buy a Windows PC and then flush time down the toilet installing Linux. What is your point?
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| From | Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-26 19:17 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <sd29ujp1uv07147aaaajniorlhn5ld8l0e@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #194000 |
Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> wrote: >> You really overstepped, with this one, Winblows is far more advanced >> than anything Apple actually created in their OS, they borrowed BSD's >> brain for the hard parts. The Apple-specific features of macOS are >> fairly laughable, in truth, although I can understand some people just >> prefer the platform, flushing money down the toilet to get it. > >So what then is Linux? That also "borrowed Unix's brain for the hard >parts". Incorrect, it's (along with GNU) a brand-new implementation of the Unix concept. >The GUIs that Linux has come up with ARE laughable. Mostly bad copies >of Windows. MacOS GUI is totally unique. > >Windows is an extremely primitive OS. In fact, it is the only fully >proprietary OS remaining. Everything else is Unix-based. Linux, >Android, iOS, MacOS, Apple watches. Linux/Unix even runs on >mainframes. > >Windows runs only on Windows PC. Nothing else. Because it is neither >portable nor scalable. Are you excluding its server applications? > Unix was both from the very beginning. Look >how long it has taken to get Windows running on Arm. And it is still >not perfect. I think they had Winblows on ARM years ago, it's just recently that it's become commercial. >But MacOS has gone thru 3 processor changes. PPC to Intel to Arm. All >very well done. Because Unix is scalable and portable. Apple is clever, no doubt there. But they ain't geniuses. >And you flush money down the toilet to buy a Windows PC and then flush >time down the toilet installing Linux. What is your point? Windows on an OEM PC tends to be garbage, although there are notable exceptions to that. The time I spend working with Linux, though, is definitely worthwhile - otherwise I'd be cucked with Winblows. -- Joel W. Crump Amendment XIV Section 1. [...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
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| From | vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-27 02:25 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m4jr9kF3im2U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #194000 |
On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 19:05:24 -0400, Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> wrote in <xxxxxx-1B0077.19052426032025@news.supernews.com>: > In article <b2t8uj1mt9jkrvhhqrbo3i1909bmn908g9@4ax.com>, > Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> You really overstepped, with this one, Winblows is far more advanced >> than anything Apple actually created in their OS, they borrowed BSD's >> brain for the hard parts. The Apple-specific features of macOS are >> fairly laughable, in truth, although I can understand some people just >> prefer the platform, flushing money down the toilet to get it. > > So what then is Linux? That also "borrowed Unix's brain for the hard > parts". Actually, there's been some cross-pollenation between BSD and Linux, most notably with the networking. Linux then took off, and left BSD in the dust -- they are still trying to catch up. > The GUIs that Linux has come up with ARE laughable. Mostly bad copies > of Windows. MacOS GUI is totally unique. That turns out not to be the case: there are some fine desktop environments for Linux, which are getting easier and easier to configure for a user's needs. Here is my desktop: https://imgur.com/tvA68Ne And before you complain about the taskbar: it is the natural progression from NeXTStep and Cairo, the underpinnings of the Mac GUI. Specifically: GNUStep and Cairo (on Linux). The dock at the bottom there is Cairo dock. I started running it to make sure it was stable enough to put on Mrs. vallor's new Linux workstation, so she would have an experience similar to her Mac Studio. (Some people go so far as to use a window manager theme that has the buttons on the left. I think that's crazy.) The rest of the desktop that you see is xfce4, which is lightweight and gets the job done. I'm not as enamored by the pretty blinking lights as you might be, YMMV. > Windows is an extremely primitive OS. In fact, it is the only fully > proprietary OS remaining. Everything else is Unix-based. Linux, > Android, iOS, MacOS, Apple watches. Linux/Unix even runs on > mainframes. I'm not sure why someone would have a problem with that: it is a testament to the versatility of Linux. That's why it seems to be running everywhere. It is a trusty OS. And everyone kept complaining that Linux was "hard to use", despite the pain one goes through to maintain Apples and Windows machines. Well, fine: now there are Chromebooks. > Windows runs only on Windows PC. Nothing else. Because it is neither > portable nor scalable. Unix was both from the very beginning. Look > how long it has taken to get Windows running on Arm. And it is still > not perfect. > > But MacOS has gone thru 3 processor changes. PPC to Intel to Arm. All > very well done. Because Unix is scalable and portable. Linux has support for 22 architectures by my count. I don't see this as a disadvantage. > > And you flush money down the toilet to buy a Windows PC and then flush > time down the toilet installing Linux. What is your point? What time? Installing Linux doesn't have to be a trial -- in fact, you can do what I did, and buy a system with Linux pre-installed. I then went ahead and installed a different distribution on my System76 workstation -- Linux Mint -- which only took a few minutes. Mrs. vallor's workstation took a minute or two longer, because I shrunk the Windows partition on the system down to a bare minimum before installing Linux Mint there, also. And another thing: about Joel's desire for 32G of memory. If he has 8 cores, and gets into building software with parallel builds, he's going to want at least 4G/core -- which would be 32G. I have 32 cores w/ hyperthreading, for a total of 64 threads, so it makes sense that I have a little over 256G of memory. Again, YMMV. And then, there's this: besides Linux being pleasant to use and configure, it has sound routing capabilities that I couldn't duplicate on Windows. Though controversial in some circles, pulseaudio does a fine job of putting the sounds I want where I want them. This boosts the production quality of streams. For example -- when I set it up -- my streams don't have Discord notification beeps playing on them. Of course, this is light years ahead of your Mac, because there's no gaming on Macs to speak of...games are made for PC Windows, and Linux supports those through subsystems like wine and proton. Sometimes, the "Windows" game runs _better_ on Linux, thanks to tricks such as DXVK, which uses Vulkan to service the DX11 and DX12 ABIs. Penultimately, I wanted to mention something that I've seen in these advocacy groups, and that is criticizing the Linux of 5- or 10-years ago as if it were still like that. That happens when people try Linux, don't like it, and forever affix in their minds that Linux isn't continuously advancing. For example, take printing: that use to be terrible to set up on Linux. Today, it uses CUPS, the same print subsystem used by Macs -- and it is maintained by Apple. And finally, it's worth noting that the lines between Linux and Windows have blurred a bit, because Linux is now a subsystem in Windows. Before, Microsoft was trying to emulate the Linux ABI -- then they punted, and WSL2 is a Linux kernel running as a guest in HyperV. So in conclusion: Linux is useful, friendly, and everywhere -- even in Microsoft Windows. -- -v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti OS: Linux 6.14.0 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G "Remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else."
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| From | % <pursent100@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-26 19:49 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <C5adneS2PromIXn6nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #194002 |
vallor wrote: > On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 19:05:24 -0400, Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> wrote > in <xxxxxx-1B0077.19052426032025@news.supernews.com>: > >> In article <b2t8uj1mt9jkrvhhqrbo3i1909bmn908g9@4ax.com>, >> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>> You really overstepped, with this one, Winblows is far more advanced >>> than anything Apple actually created in their OS, they borrowed BSD's >>> brain for the hard parts. The Apple-specific features of macOS are >>> fairly laughable, in truth, although I can understand some people just >>> prefer the platform, flushing money down the toilet to get it. >> >> So what then is Linux? That also "borrowed Unix's brain for the hard >> parts". > > Actually, there's been some cross-pollenation between BSD and Linux, > most notably with the networking. Linux then took off, and left > BSD in the dust -- they are still trying to catch up. > >> The GUIs that Linux has come up with ARE laughable. Mostly bad copies >> of Windows. MacOS GUI is totally unique. > > That turns out not to be the case: there are some fine desktop > environments for Linux, which are getting easier and easier to > configure for a user's needs. > > Here is my desktop: > > https://imgur.com/tvA68Ne > > And before you complain about the taskbar: it is the natural progression > from NeXTStep and Cairo, the underpinnings of the Mac GUI. Specifically: > GNUStep and Cairo (on Linux). The dock at the bottom there is Cairo dock. > I started running it to make sure it was stable enough to put on Mrs. > vallor's new Linux workstation, so she would have an experience similar > to her Mac Studio. > > (Some people go so far as to use a window manager theme that has the > buttons on the left. I think that's crazy.) > > The rest of the desktop that you see is xfce4, which is lightweight > and gets the job done. I'm not as enamored by the pretty blinking > lights as you might be, YMMV. > >> Windows is an extremely primitive OS. In fact, it is the only fully >> proprietary OS remaining. Everything else is Unix-based. Linux, >> Android, iOS, MacOS, Apple watches. Linux/Unix even runs on >> mainframes. > > I'm not sure why someone would have a problem with that: it is a > testament to the versatility of Linux. That's why it seems to be > running everywhere. It is a trusty OS. > > And everyone kept complaining that Linux was "hard to use", despite > the pain one goes through to maintain Apples and Windows machines. > Well, fine: now there are Chromebooks. > >> Windows runs only on Windows PC. Nothing else. Because it is neither >> portable nor scalable. Unix was both from the very beginning. Look >> how long it has taken to get Windows running on Arm. And it is still >> not perfect. >> >> But MacOS has gone thru 3 processor changes. PPC to Intel to Arm. All >> very well done. Because Unix is scalable and portable. > > Linux has support for 22 architectures by my count. I don't > see this as a disadvantage. > >> >> And you flush money down the toilet to buy a Windows PC and then flush >> time down the toilet installing Linux. What is your point? > > What time? Installing Linux doesn't have to be a trial -- in fact, > you can do what I did, and buy a system with Linux pre-installed. > I then went ahead and installed a different distribution on my System76 > workstation -- Linux Mint -- which only took a few minutes. > > Mrs. vallor's workstation took a minute or two longer, because I shrunk > the Windows partition on the system down to a bare minimum before > installing Linux Mint there, also. > > And another thing: about Joel's desire for 32G of memory. If he has > 8 cores, and gets into building software with parallel builds, he's > going to want at least 4G/core -- which would be 32G. I have 32 cores w/ > hyperthreading, for a total of 64 threads, so it makes sense that I > have a little over 256G of memory. Again, YMMV. > > And then, there's this: besides Linux being pleasant to use > and configure, it has sound routing capabilities that I > couldn't duplicate on Windows. Though controversial in some > circles, pulseaudio does a fine job of putting the sounds I want > where I want them. This boosts the production quality of streams. For > example -- when I set it up -- my streams don't have Discord > notification beeps playing on them. > > Of course, this is light years ahead of your Mac, because there's > no gaming on Macs to speak of...games are made for PC Windows, > and Linux supports those through subsystems like wine and proton. > Sometimes, the "Windows" game runs _better_ on Linux, thanks to > tricks such as DXVK, which uses Vulkan to service the DX11 and DX12 > ABIs. > > Penultimately, I wanted to mention something that I've seen in these > advocacy groups, and that is criticizing the Linux of 5- or 10-years ago > as if it were still like that. That happens when people try Linux, don't > like it, and forever affix in their minds that Linux isn't continuously > advancing. For example, take printing: that use to be terrible to > set up on Linux. Today, it uses CUPS, the same print subsystem used > by Macs -- and it is maintained by Apple. > > And finally, it's worth noting that the lines between Linux and Windows > have blurred a bit, because Linux is now a subsystem in Windows. Before, > Microsoft was trying to emulate the Linux ABI -- then they punted, and > WSL2 is a Linux kernel running as a guest in HyperV. So in > conclusion: Linux is useful, friendly, and everywhere -- even > in Microsoft Windows. > but how do you see jpegs
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| From | vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-27 03:30 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m4jv2gF3im2U3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #194003 |
On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 19:49:36 -0700, % <pursent100@gmail.com> wrote in <C5adneS2PromIXn6nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com>: > but how do you see jpegs You double-click on its thumbnail in the file manager, and the image viewer displays it. Any questions? -- -v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti OS: Linux 6.14.0 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G "What I lack in restraint, I make up for in remorse."
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| From | Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-26 11:57 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <us88uj5lv1t5ofbbtg14um6n1g9sgqu8k5@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #193985 |
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> the [Linux] OS us[ed] swap, when main RAM and cache >>>> saturated the 32 GB. >>> >>> That doesn't actually mean you *need* 32GB. >> >> Oh sure, I'll just rely on swap! Great, back to the 1990s, heh. > >The OS will always try to maximise RAM usage regardless of how much you >have. In and of itself is not evidence of the need for that amount of RAM. > >In modern systems there's no noticeable difference when dipping into swap. >Certainly not when flushing caches. PCI SSD and NVMe hardware are a world >away from slow spinners of the 90s. > >Despite building your own PC (big deal!) you seem quite ignorant on how it >works. Sounds like a Mac would actually be better for you. lol. The point is, I could run with less RAM, but it'd use swap heavily. 32 GB is about right, for how I use a PC. -- Joel W. Crump Amendment XIV Section 1. [...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
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| From | Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-26 20:15 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vs1n9a$2h51b$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #193990 |
Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: > Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> the [Linux] OS us[ed] swap, when main RAM and cache >>>>> saturated the 32 GB. >>>> >>>> That doesn't actually mean you *need* 32GB. >>> >>> Oh sure, I'll just rely on swap! Great, back to the 1990s, heh. >> >> The OS will always try to maximise RAM usage regardless of how much you >> have. In and of itself is not evidence of the need for that amount of RAM. >> >> In modern systems there's no noticeable difference when dipping into swap. >> Certainly not when flushing caches. PCI SSD and NVMe hardware are a world >> away from slow spinners of the 90s. >> >> Despite building your own PC (big deal!) you seem quite ignorant on how it >> works. Sounds like a Mac would actually be better for you. lol. > > > The point is, I could run with less RAM, but it'd use swap heavily. There's no evidence of that. Especially given the types of apps you run. > 32 > GB is about right, for how I use a PC. I have a mac with 32GB - not my choice - and use much more resource demanding apps than you which I almost never use all of it.
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| From | Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-26 16:18 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <t7o8ujdrv919enebf40j4urhehvc82d5fu@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #193993 |
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Despite building your own PC (big deal!) you seem quite ignorant on how it >>> works. Sounds like a Mac would actually be better for you. lol. >> >> The point is, I could run with less RAM, but it'd use swap heavily. > >There's no evidence of that. Especially given the types of apps you run. > >> 32 >> GB is about right, for how I use a PC. > >I have a mac with 32GB - not my choice - and use much more resource >demanding apps than you which I almost never use all of it. You have concluded this all from reading my Usenet posts, you must be psychic, heh. -- Joel W. Crump Amendment XIV Section 1. [...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
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| From | Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-27 07:45 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vs2vmf$3oqf3$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #193995 |
Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: > Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> Despite building your own PC (big deal!) you seem quite ignorant on how it >>>> works. Sounds like a Mac would actually be better for you. lol. >>> >>> The point is, I could run with less RAM, but it'd use swap heavily. >> >> There's no evidence of that. Especially given the types of apps you run. >> >>> 32 >>> GB is about right, for how I use a PC. >> >> I have a mac with 32GB - not my choice - and use much more resource >> demanding apps than you which I almost never use all of it. > > > You have concluded this all from reading my Usenet posts, you must be > psychic, heh. Nope. You've given enough info to confirm that you're not a power user so a basic spec machine will be fine for your *needs*. Whether you want more is up to you.
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-27 08:41 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <XHbFP.1338687$FVcd.581928@fx10.iad> |
| In reply to | #194005 |
On 2025-03-27 03:45, Chris wrote: > Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: >> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>>> Despite building your own PC (big deal!) you seem quite ignorant on how it >>>>> works. Sounds like a Mac would actually be better for you. lol. >>>> >>>> The point is, I could run with less RAM, but it'd use swap heavily. >>> >>> There's no evidence of that. Especially given the types of apps you run. >>> >>>> 32 >>>> GB is about right, for how I use a PC. >>> >>> I have a mac with 32GB - not my choice - and use much more resource >>> demanding apps than you which I almost never use all of it. >> >> >> You have concluded this all from reading my Usenet posts, you must be >> psychic, heh. > > Nope. You've given enough info to confirm that you're not a power user so a > basic spec machine will be fine for your *needs*. Whether you want more is > up to you. Realistically, Joel would be fine using a Celeron with no more than 8GB of RAM. -- God be with you, CrudeSausage John 14:6
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| From | Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-27 12:20 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <bkuaujptbd60gk42tca5k8b25onf8gn1p4@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #194007 |
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >On 2025-03-27 03:45, Chris wrote: >> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>>> 32 >>>>> GB is about right, for how I use a PC. >>>> >>>> I have a mac with 32GB - not my choice - and use much more resource >>>> demanding apps than you which I almost never use all of it. >>> >>> You have concluded this all from reading my Usenet posts, you must be >>> psychic, heh. >> >> Nope. You've given enough info to confirm that you're not a power user so a >> basic spec machine will be fine for your *needs*. Whether you want more is >> up to you. > >Realistically, Joel would be fine using a Celeron with no more than 8GB >of RAM. Ridiculous, that would function more or less, but not very *well*. -- Joel W. Crump Amendment XIV Section 1. [...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
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| From | pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-28 00:44 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vs4rcr$1f84f$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #194009 |
On 2025-03-27, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: > CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>On 2025-03-27 03:45, Chris wrote: >>> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> 32 >>>>>> GB is about right, for how I use a PC. >>>>> >>>>> I have a mac with 32GB - not my choice - and use much more resource >>>>> demanding apps than you which I almost never use all of it. >>>> >>>> You have concluded this all from reading my Usenet posts, you must be >>>> psychic, heh. >>> >>> Nope. You've given enough info to confirm that you're not a power user so a >>> basic spec machine will be fine for your *needs*. Whether you want more is >>> up to you. >> >>Realistically, Joel would be fine using a Celeron with no more than 8GB >>of RAM. > > > Ridiculous, that would function more or less, but not very *well*. > Some people should not be allowed anywhere near a computer. You are one of them. -- pothead Liberalism Is A Mental Disease Treat it accordingly <https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-14512427/Doctors-reveal-symptoms-Trump-Derangement-Syndrome-tell-youve-got-it.html>
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| From | Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-27 21:20 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <38ubuj1lcp0ftpkbt3rbgl6pq42s6f9m5c@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #194024 |
pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote: >On 2025-03-27, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: >> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>> >>>Realistically, Joel would be fine using a Celeron with no more than 8GB >>>of RAM. >> >> Ridiculous, that would function more or less, but not very *well*. >> >Some people should not be allowed anywhere near a computer. >You are one of them. That's just spew, I'm a fairly accomplished computer user, you aren't better than me, you aren't so great. You're just a leftover from times past, which is why you make such idiotic political statements. You're an emotional thinker. -- Joel W. Crump Amendment XIV Section 1. [...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
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| From | Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-27 18:26 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <vs4ts2$1h3sr$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #194026 |
On 2025-03-27 18:20, Joel wrote: > pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote: >> On 2025-03-27, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: >>> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>>> >>>> Realistically, Joel would be fine using a Celeron with no more than 8GB >>>> of RAM. >>> >>> Ridiculous, that would function more or less, but not very *well*. >>> >> Some people should not be allowed anywhere near a computer. >> You are one of them. > > > That's just spew, I'm a fairly accomplished computer user, you aren't > better than me, you aren't so great. You're just a leftover from > times past, which is why you make such idiotic political statements. > You're an emotional thinker. > So it is "fairly accomplished"... ...or 'I'm beyond a "power user".'
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