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Groups > misc.phone.mobile.iphone > #193744 > unrolled thread

Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control

Started byJoel <joelcrump@gmail.com>
First post2025-03-18 18:12 -0400
Last post2025-03-26 11:09 +1300
Articles 20 on this page of 231 — 20 participants

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Contents

  Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-18 18:12 -0400
    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-20 09:14 -0700
      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-20 12:23 -0400
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 13:44 -0400
      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 13:43 -0400
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 19:50 +0000
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Mikey <Mikey.Smith@aol.invalid> - 2025-03-21 15:00 +0000
            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-21 19:59 +0000
            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 16:45 -0400
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 12:26 -0400
            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 23:53 +0000
              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 20:00 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-21 20:27 -0400
                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-22 00:45 +0000
                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 19:57 -0400
                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 21:49 -0400
                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-21 22:29 -0700
                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 16:29 -0400
                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 19:59 -0400
                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 20:14 -0400
                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 20:29 -0400
                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-26 01:59 +0000
                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-03-22 04:54 -0500
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 09:22 +0000
                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-22 19:16 +0000
                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 07:40 +0000
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-20 14:26 -0700
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 17:58 -0400
            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-20 15:52 -0700
              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 20:48 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 12:31 -0400
                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-21 16:47 +0000
                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 13:00 -0400
              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 12:29 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-21 12:40 -0700
                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 15:56 -0400
                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-21 22:27 -0700
                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 16:36 -0400
                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-22 14:04 -0700
                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 17:52 -0400
                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-03-22 19:18 -0400
                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 19:23 -0400
                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-22 19:17 -0700
                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 08:18 -0400
                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-23 12:21 +0000
                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:00 -0400
                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 18:06 +0000
                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:17 -0400
                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 18:22 +0000
                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:35 -0400
                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 18:41 +0000
                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:54 -0400
                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 19:11 +0000
                                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-23 21:05 +0000
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:22 -0700
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 17:31 -0400
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-23 22:34 +0000
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-24 08:53 -0400
                                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-24 13:39 +0000
                                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-24 10:48 -0400
                                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-24 19:59 +0000
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 17:47 -0400
                                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-24 23:12 +0000
                                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 19:36 -0400
                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:42 -0700
                                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 18:57 -0400
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-24 23:20 +0000
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 19:38 -0400
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:46 -0700
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-25 00:59 +0000
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 18:17 -0700
                                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-25 01:30 +0000
                                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:58 -0400
                                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 19:44 -0700
                                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 22:52 -0400
                                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:16 -0700
                                                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 23:24 -0400
                                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:40 -0700
                                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 23:45 -0400
                                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:48 -0700
                                                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:02 -0400
                                                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 21:10 -0700
                                                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:26 -0400
                                                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-04-09 18:40 +0000
                                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-04-09 11:51 -0700
                                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-04-10 10:07 +1200
                                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-09 18:16 -0400
                                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-04-10 19:48 +0000
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:08 -0400
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 18:14 -0700
                                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-24 19:29 -0400
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:46 -0700
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:09 -0400
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-25 06:24 +0000
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 02:31 -0400
                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-03-23 12:20 -0400
                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:13 -0400
                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-03-23 15:39 -0400
                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 15:52 -0400
                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 19:58 +0000
                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 16:11 -0400
                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 22:12 +0000
                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-03-23 16:02 -0400
                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 16:09 -0400
                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 20:25 +0000
                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 16:34 -0400
                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:43 -0700
                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-03-24 09:09 -0400
                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-03-24 20:10 +0000
                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 18:33 +0000
                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:51 -0400
                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 19:06 +0000
                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 15:26 -0400
                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 19:33 +0000
                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:44 -0700
                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 19:11 -0400
                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:47 -0700
                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:11 -0400
                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 18:13 -0700
                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:57 -0400
                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 19:43 -0700
                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 22:54 -0400
                                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:15 -0700
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 23:22 -0400
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:36 -0700
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 23:43 -0400
                                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:49 -0700
                                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:09 -0400
                                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 21:11 -0700
                                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:29 -0400
                                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Rudy Canoza <rc@j.kone.invalid> - 2025-03-25 02:32 -0400
                                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 02:41 -0400
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 18:27 -0400
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-04-04 16:55 -0700
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 20:08 -0400
                                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-04-04 17:10 -0700
                                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 20:21 -0400
                                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-04-04 23:11 -0700
                                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 02:50 -0400
                                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-04-05 16:06 -0400
                                                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 16:17 -0400
                                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-04-05 20:42 -0400
                                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 07:42 -0400
                                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 08:07 -0700
                                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 15:44 -0400
                                                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 12:46 -0700
                                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 15:59 -0400
                                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 13:11 -0700
                                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-07 08:57 -0400
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-04-05 15:49 -0400
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 16:16 -0400
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-06 01:26 +0000
                                                            Re: πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆApple requires too much money and sacrifice of controlπŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ πŸŒˆπŸ’πŸŒ»πŸŒΊπŸŒΉπŸŒ»πŸ’πŸŒ·πŸŒΊπŸŒˆJenπŸŒˆπŸ’πŸŒ»πŸŒΊπŸŒΉπŸŒ»πŸ’πŸŒ·πŸŒΊπŸŒˆ Dershmendenderer πŸ’πŸŒ»πŸŒΊπŸŒΉπŸŒ»πŸ’πŸŒ·πŸŒΊπŸΆη¬›πŸŒˆπŸ’πŸŒ»πŸŒΊπŸŒΉπŸŒ»πŸ’πŸŒ·πŸŒΊπŸŒˆ <root@127.0.0.1>  - 2025-04-06 03:18 +0000
                                                              Re: πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆApple requires too much money and sacrifice of controlπŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-06 03:35 +0000
                                                                Re: πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆApple requires too much money and sacrifice of controlπŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-06 04:31 +0000
                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-22 19:17 -0700
                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-23 03:15 +0000
                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-23 18:01 +1300
                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-23 18:08 +1300
                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-23 05:37 +0000
                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:45 -0700
                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 23:33 -0400
                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:46 -0700
                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 19:13 -0400
                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:47 -0700
                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-25 00:52 +0000
                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:59 -0700
                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:48 -0400
                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 19:43 -0700
                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 22:28 -0400
                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 19:44 -0700
                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 08:43 -0400
                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 08:48 -0400
                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 08:12 +0000
                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 04:20 -0400
                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 18:48 +0000
                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 14:54 -0400
                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-25 17:24 -0700
                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 20:33 -0400
                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-25 18:03 -0700
                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 21:19 -0400
                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 07:40 +0000
                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-26 08:36 -0400
                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 20:15 +0000
                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-27 10:05 +1300
                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 17:43 -0400
                                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-26 19:05 -0400
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 19:17 -0400
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-27 02:25 +0000
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 19:49 -0700
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-27 03:30 +0000
                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 11:57 -0400
                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 20:15 +0000
                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 16:18 -0400
                                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 07:45 +0000
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-27 08:41 -0400
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 12:20 -0400
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-28 00:44 +0000
                                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 21:20 -0400
                                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-27 18:26 -0700
                                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 21:53 -0400
                                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-27 22:42 -0700
                                                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-28 01:45 -0400
                                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-28 07:50 +0000
                                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-28 02:08 +0000
                                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 22:16 -0400
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 12:06 -0400
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 18:11 +0000
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-28 00:43 +0000
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 21:18 -0400
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-28 08:26 -0400
                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 14:58 -0400
                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 15:13 -0400
                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-26 02:09 +0000
                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-21 20:33 -0400
    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 00:00 -0400
      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:06 -0400
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 21:09 -0700
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:25 -0400
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 10:13 -0400
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 10:20 -0400
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 11:01 -0400
            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-26 02:05 +0000
      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 08:47 -0400
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 10:35 -0400
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 10:41 -0400
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 11:04 -0400
            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-26 11:09 +1300
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-26 11:16 +1300
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 18:53 +0000
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-26 11:09 +1300

Page 10 of 12 — ← Prev page 1 … 8 9 [10] 11 12  Next page →


#193981

FromJoel <joelcrump@gmail.com>
Date2025-03-25 21:19 -0400
Message-ID<9sk6uj9b6bpf6e73f800arq8iqe070e0bu@4ax.com>
In reply to#193980
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>On 2025-03-25 17:33, Joel wrote:
>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>> On 2025-03-25 11:54, Joel wrote:
>>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> the [Linux] OS us[ed] swap, when main RAM and cache
>>>>>> saturated the 32 GB.
>>>>>
>>>>> That doesn't actually mean you *need* 32GB.
>>>>
>>>> Oh sure, I'll just rely on swap!  Great, back to the 1990s, heh.
>>>
>>> What you showed was 25GB usage and some of that was caching.
>>>
>>> You were nowhere NEAR needing swap space.
>> 
>> But if I *didn't* have the whole 32 GB, Alan, the RAM would get
>> saturated rather quickly, leading to use of swap.
>And yet you weren't able to show that.
>
>Weird, huh?


What exactly do you want me to show?  I'm telling you as a
conscientious PC user, I know what's going on with my system and what
resources are useful.  32 GB RAM is actually *less* than I could use,
in theory, if I were obsessed, but it's a good amount for the time
being, and I'm satisfied with what I have, for now.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#193985

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2025-03-26 07:40 +0000
Message-ID<vs0b18$19k5o$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#193966
Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>> the [Linux] OS us[ed] swap, when main RAM and cache
>>> saturated the 32 GB.
>> 
>> That doesn't actually mean you *need* 32GB. 
> 
> 
> Oh sure, I'll just rely on swap!  Great, back to the 1990s, heh.

The OS will always try to maximise RAM usage regardless of how much you
have. In and of itself is not evidence of the need for that amount of RAM. 

In modern systems there's no noticeable difference when dipping into swap.
Certainly not when flushing caches. PCI SSD and NVMe hardware are a world
away from slow spinners of the 90s. 

Despite building your own PC (big deal!) you seem quite ignorant on how it
works. Sounds like a Mac would actually be better for you. lol. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#193987

FromCrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>
Date2025-03-26 08:36 -0400
Message-ID<mxSEP.104219$541.37800@fx47.iad>
In reply to#193985
On 2025-03-26 03:40, Chris wrote:
> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> the [Linux] OS us[ed] swap, when main RAM and cache
>>>> saturated the 32 GB.
>>>
>>> That doesn't actually mean you *need* 32GB.
>>
>>
>> Oh sure, I'll just rely on swap!  Great, back to the 1990s, heh.
> 
> The OS will always try to maximise RAM usage regardless of how much you
> have. In and of itself is not evidence of the need for that amount of RAM.
> 
> In modern systems there's no noticeable difference when dipping into swap.
> Certainly not when flushing caches. PCI SSD and NVMe hardware are a world
> away from slow spinners of the 90s.
> 
> Despite building your own PC (big deal!) you seem quite ignorant on how it
> works. Sounds like a Mac would actually be better for you. lol.

I have to admit that I find it strange how Windows 11 uses 10GB of RAM 
to run the exact same software I use on Linux. In Linux, having Brave, 
Betterbird and Telegram open needs about 3GB. I understand that the 
operating system will use up as much RAM as it can but how the heck do 
those three applications need 10GB?

-- 
God be with you,

CrudeSausage
John 14:6

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#193994

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2025-03-26 20:15 +0000
Message-ID<vs1n9b$2h51b$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#193987
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2025-03-26 03:40, Chris wrote:
>> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> the [Linux] OS us[ed] swap, when main RAM and cache
>>>>> saturated the 32 GB.
>>>> 
>>>> That doesn't actually mean you *need* 32GB.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Oh sure, I'll just rely on swap!  Great, back to the 1990s, heh.
>> 
>> The OS will always try to maximise RAM usage regardless of how much you
>> have. In and of itself is not evidence of the need for that amount of RAM.
>> 
>> In modern systems there's no noticeable difference when dipping into swap.
>> Certainly not when flushing caches. PCI SSD and NVMe hardware are a world
>> away from slow spinners of the 90s.
>> 
>> Despite building your own PC (big deal!) you seem quite ignorant on how it
>> works. Sounds like a Mac would actually be better for you. lol.
> 
> I have to admit that I find it strange how Windows 11 uses 10GB of RAM 
> to run the exact same software I use on Linux. In Linux, having Brave, 
> Betterbird and Telegram open needs about 3GB. I understand that the 
> operating system will use up as much RAM as it can but how the heck do 
> those three applications need 10GB?

OS overhead. Linux is much more efficient than Windows. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#193996

FromYour Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date2025-03-27 10:05 +1300
Message-ID<vs1q6r$2jk05$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#193987
On 2025-03-26 12:36:33 +0000, CrudeSausage said:

> On 2025-03-26 03:40, Chris wrote:
>> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> the [Linux] OS us[ed] swap, when main RAM and cache
>>>>> saturated the 32 GB.
>>>> 
>>>> That doesn't actually mean you *need* 32GB.
>>> 
>>> Oh sure, I'll just rely on swap!  Great, back to the 1990s, heh.
>> 
>> The OS will always try to maximise RAM usage regardless of how much you
>> have. In and of itself is not evidence of the need for that amount of RAM.
>> 
>> In modern systems there's no noticeable difference when dipping into swap.
>> Certainly not when flushing caches. PCI SSD and NVMe hardware are a world
>> away from slow spinners of the 90s.
>> 
>> Despite building your own PC (big deal!) you seem quite ignorant on how it
>> works. Sounds like a Mac would actually be better for you. lol.
> 
> I have to admit that I find it strange how Windows 11 uses 10GB of RAM 
> to run the exact same software I use on Linux. In Linux, having Brave, 
> Betterbird and Telegram open needs about 3GB. I understand that the 
> operating system will use up as much RAM as it can but how the heck do 
> those three applications need 10GB?

Because nobody at Microsoft has actual programming ability. Windows has 
been and always will be an ugly, useless, and highly inefficient 
operating systyem sold by a conman who simply steals or buys out every 
product they have ever made, from MS-DOS onwards.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#193998

FromJoel <joelcrump@gmail.com>
Date2025-03-26 17:43 -0400
Message-ID<b2t8uj1mt9jkrvhhqrbo3i1909bmn908g9@4ax.com>
In reply to#193996
Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

>User-Agent: Unison/2.2


A GUI Mac app.


>> On 2025-03-26 03:40, Chris wrote:
>>> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> the [Linux] OS us[ed] swap, when main RAM and cache
>>>>>> saturated the 32 GB.
>>>>> 
>>>>> That doesn't actually mean you *need* 32GB.
>>>> 
>>>> Oh sure, I'll just rely on swap!  Great, back to the 1990s, heh.
>>> 
>>> The OS will always try to maximise RAM usage regardless of how much you
>>> have. In and of itself is not evidence of the need for that amount of RAM.
>>> 
>>> In modern systems there's no noticeable difference when dipping into swap.
>>> Certainly not when flushing caches. PCI SSD and NVMe hardware are a world
>>> away from slow spinners of the 90s.
>>> 
>>> Despite building your own PC (big deal!) you seem quite ignorant on how it
>>> works. Sounds like a Mac would actually be better for you. lol.
>> 
>> I have to admit that I find it strange how Windows 11 uses 10GB of RAM 
>> to run the exact same software I use on Linux. In Linux, having Brave, 
>> Betterbird and Telegram open needs about 3GB. I understand that the 
>> operating system will use up as much RAM as it can but how the heck do 
>> those three applications need 10GB?
>
>Because nobody at Microsoft has actual programming ability. Windows has 
>been and always will be an ugly, useless, and highly inefficient 
>operating systyem sold by a conman who simply steals or buys out every 
>product they have ever made, from MS-DOS onwards.


You really overstepped, with this one, Winblows is far more advanced
than anything Apple actually created in their OS, they borrowed BSD's
brain for the hard parts.  The Apple-specific features of macOS are
fairly laughable, in truth, although I can understand some people just
prefer the platform, flushing money down the toilet to get it.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#194000

FromJohnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz>
Date2025-03-26 19:05 -0400
Message-ID<xxxxxx-1B0077.19052426032025@news.supernews.com>
In reply to#193998
In article <b2t8uj1mt9jkrvhhqrbo3i1909bmn908g9@4ax.com>,
 Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

 
> You really overstepped, with this one, Winblows is far more advanced
> than anything Apple actually created in their OS, they borrowed BSD's
> brain for the hard parts.   The Apple-specific features of macOS are
> fairly laughable, in truth, although I can understand some people just
> prefer the platform, flushing money down the toilet to get it.

So what then is Linux?   That also "borrowed Unix's brain for the hard 
parts".  

The GUIs that Linux has come up with ARE laughable.   Mostly bad copies 
of Windows.   MacOS GUI is totally unique. 

Windows is an extremely primitive OS.   In fact, it is the only fully 
proprietary OS remaining.   Everything else is Unix-based.   Linux, 
Android, iOS, MacOS, Apple watches.   Linux/Unix even runs on 
mainframes.  

Windows runs only on Windows PC.   Nothing else.  Because it is neither 
portable nor scalable.   Unix was both from the very beginning.   Look 
how long it has taken to get Windows running on Arm.  And it is still 
not perfect.   

But MacOS has gone thru 3 processor changes.  PPC to Intel to Arm.   All 
very well done.   Because Unix is scalable and portable.  

And you flush money down the toilet to buy a Windows PC and then flush 
time down the toilet installing Linux.  What is your point?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#194001

FromJoel <joelcrump@gmail.com>
Date2025-03-26 19:17 -0400
Message-ID<sd29ujp1uv07147aaaajniorlhn5ld8l0e@4ax.com>
In reply to#194000
Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> wrote:

>> You really overstepped, with this one, Winblows is far more advanced
>> than anything Apple actually created in their OS, they borrowed BSD's
>> brain for the hard parts.   The Apple-specific features of macOS are
>> fairly laughable, in truth, although I can understand some people just
>> prefer the platform, flushing money down the toilet to get it.
>
>So what then is Linux?   That also "borrowed Unix's brain for the hard 
>parts".  


Incorrect, it's (along with GNU) a brand-new implementation of the
Unix concept.


>The GUIs that Linux has come up with ARE laughable.   Mostly bad copies 
>of Windows.   MacOS GUI is totally unique. 
>
>Windows is an extremely primitive OS.   In fact, it is the only fully 
>proprietary OS remaining.   Everything else is Unix-based.   Linux, 
>Android, iOS, MacOS, Apple watches.   Linux/Unix even runs on 
>mainframes.  
>
>Windows runs only on Windows PC.   Nothing else.  Because it is neither 
>portable nor scalable.


Are you excluding its server applications?


>   Unix was both from the very beginning.   Look 
>how long it has taken to get Windows running on Arm.  And it is still 
>not perfect.   


I think they had Winblows on ARM years ago, it's just recently that
it's become commercial.


>But MacOS has gone thru 3 processor changes.  PPC to Intel to Arm.   All 
>very well done.   Because Unix is scalable and portable.  


Apple is clever, no doubt there.  But they ain't geniuses.


>And you flush money down the toilet to buy a Windows PC and then flush 
>time down the toilet installing Linux.  What is your point?


Windows on an OEM PC tends to be garbage, although there are notable
exceptions to that.  The time I spend working with Linux, though, is
definitely worthwhile - otherwise I'd be cucked with Winblows.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#194002

Fromvallor <vallor@cultnix.org>
Date2025-03-27 02:25 +0000
Message-ID<m4jr9kF3im2U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#194000
On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 19:05:24 -0400, Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> wrote
in <xxxxxx-1B0077.19052426032025@news.supernews.com>:

> In article <b2t8uj1mt9jkrvhhqrbo3i1909bmn908g9@4ax.com>,
>  Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> You really overstepped, with this one, Winblows is far more advanced
>> than anything Apple actually created in their OS, they borrowed BSD's
>> brain for the hard parts.   The Apple-specific features of macOS are
>> fairly laughable, in truth, although I can understand some people just
>> prefer the platform, flushing money down the toilet to get it.
> 
> So what then is Linux?   That also "borrowed Unix's brain for the hard
> parts".

Actually, there's been some cross-pollenation between BSD and Linux,
most notably with the networking.  Linux then took off, and left
BSD in the dust -- they are still trying to catch up.

> The GUIs that Linux has come up with ARE laughable.   Mostly bad copies
> of Windows.   MacOS GUI is totally unique.

That turns out not to be the case:  there are some fine desktop
environments for Linux, which are getting easier and easier to
configure for a user's needs.

Here is my desktop:

https://imgur.com/tvA68Ne

And before you complain about the taskbar:  it is the natural progression
from NeXTStep and Cairo, the underpinnings of the Mac GUI.  Specifically:
GNUStep and Cairo (on Linux).  The dock at the bottom there is Cairo dock.
I started running it to make sure it was stable enough to put on Mrs.
vallor's new Linux workstation, so she would have an experience similar
to her Mac Studio.

(Some people go so far as to use a window manager theme that has the
buttons on the left.  I think that's crazy.)

The rest of the desktop that you see is xfce4, which is lightweight
and gets the job done.  I'm not as enamored by the pretty blinking
lights as you might be, YMMV.
 
> Windows is an extremely primitive OS.   In fact, it is the only fully
> proprietary OS remaining.   Everything else is Unix-based.   Linux,
> Android, iOS, MacOS, Apple watches.   Linux/Unix even runs on
> mainframes.

I'm not sure why someone would have a problem with that:  it is a
testament to the versatility of Linux.  That's why it seems to be
running everywhere.  It is a trusty OS.

And everyone kept complaining that Linux was "hard to use", despite
the pain one goes through to maintain Apples and Windows machines.
Well, fine:  now there are Chromebooks.

> Windows runs only on Windows PC.   Nothing else.  Because it is neither
> portable nor scalable.   Unix was both from the very beginning.   Look
> how long it has taken to get Windows running on Arm.  And it is still
> not perfect.
> 
> But MacOS has gone thru 3 processor changes.  PPC to Intel to Arm.   All
> very well done.   Because Unix is scalable and portable.

Linux has support for 22 architectures by my count.  I don't
see this as a disadvantage.

> 
> And you flush money down the toilet to buy a Windows PC and then flush
> time down the toilet installing Linux.  What is your point?

What time?  Installing Linux doesn't have to be a trial -- in fact,
you can do what I did, and buy a system with Linux pre-installed.
I then went ahead and installed a different distribution on my System76
workstation -- Linux Mint -- which only took a few minutes.

Mrs. vallor's workstation took a minute or two longer, because I shrunk
the Windows partition on the system down to a bare minimum before
installing Linux Mint there, also.

And another thing:  about Joel's desire for 32G of memory.  If he has
8 cores, and gets into building software with parallel builds, he's
going to want at least 4G/core -- which would be 32G.  I have 32 cores w/
hyperthreading, for a total of 64 threads, so it makes sense that I
have a little over 256G of memory.  Again, YMMV.

And then, there's this:  besides Linux being pleasant to use
and configure, it has sound routing capabilities that I
couldn't duplicate on Windows.  Though controversial in some
circles, pulseaudio does a fine job of putting the sounds I want
where I want them.  This boosts the production quality of streams.  For
example -- when I set it up -- my streams don't have Discord
notification beeps playing on them.

Of course, this is light years ahead of your Mac, because there's
no gaming on Macs to speak of...games are made for PC Windows,
and Linux supports those through subsystems like wine and proton.
Sometimes, the "Windows" game runs _better_ on Linux, thanks to
tricks such as DXVK, which uses Vulkan to service the DX11 and DX12
ABIs.

Penultimately, I wanted to mention something that I've seen in these
advocacy groups, and that is criticizing the Linux of 5- or 10-years ago
as if it were still like that.  That happens when people try Linux, don't
like it, and forever affix in their minds that Linux isn't continuously
advancing.  For example, take printing:  that use to be terrible to
set up on Linux.  Today, it uses CUPS, the same print subsystem used
by Macs -- and it is maintained by Apple.

And finally, it's worth noting that the lines between Linux and Windows
have blurred a bit, because Linux is now a subsystem in Windows.  Before,
Microsoft was trying to emulate the Linux ABI -- then they punted, and
WSL2 is a Linux kernel running as a guest in HyperV.  So in
conclusion:  Linux is useful, friendly, and everywhere -- even
in Microsoft Windows.

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
   OS: Linux 6.14.0 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
   "Remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else."

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#194003

From% <pursent100@gmail.com>
Date2025-03-26 19:49 -0700
Message-ID<C5adneS2PromIXn6nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#194002
vallor wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 19:05:24 -0400, Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> wrote
> in <xxxxxx-1B0077.19052426032025@news.supernews.com>:
> 
>> In article <b2t8uj1mt9jkrvhhqrbo3i1909bmn908g9@4ax.com>,
>>   Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> You really overstepped, with this one, Winblows is far more advanced
>>> than anything Apple actually created in their OS, they borrowed BSD's
>>> brain for the hard parts.   The Apple-specific features of macOS are
>>> fairly laughable, in truth, although I can understand some people just
>>> prefer the platform, flushing money down the toilet to get it.
>>
>> So what then is Linux?   That also "borrowed Unix's brain for the hard
>> parts".
> 
> Actually, there's been some cross-pollenation between BSD and Linux,
> most notably with the networking.  Linux then took off, and left
> BSD in the dust -- they are still trying to catch up.
> 
>> The GUIs that Linux has come up with ARE laughable.   Mostly bad copies
>> of Windows.   MacOS GUI is totally unique.
> 
> That turns out not to be the case:  there are some fine desktop
> environments for Linux, which are getting easier and easier to
> configure for a user's needs.
> 
> Here is my desktop:
> 
> https://imgur.com/tvA68Ne
> 
> And before you complain about the taskbar:  it is the natural progression
> from NeXTStep and Cairo, the underpinnings of the Mac GUI.  Specifically:
> GNUStep and Cairo (on Linux).  The dock at the bottom there is Cairo dock.
> I started running it to make sure it was stable enough to put on Mrs.
> vallor's new Linux workstation, so she would have an experience similar
> to her Mac Studio.
> 
> (Some people go so far as to use a window manager theme that has the
> buttons on the left.  I think that's crazy.)
> 
> The rest of the desktop that you see is xfce4, which is lightweight
> and gets the job done.  I'm not as enamored by the pretty blinking
> lights as you might be, YMMV.
>   
>> Windows is an extremely primitive OS.   In fact, it is the only fully
>> proprietary OS remaining.   Everything else is Unix-based.   Linux,
>> Android, iOS, MacOS, Apple watches.   Linux/Unix even runs on
>> mainframes.
> 
> I'm not sure why someone would have a problem with that:  it is a
> testament to the versatility of Linux.  That's why it seems to be
> running everywhere.  It is a trusty OS.
> 
> And everyone kept complaining that Linux was "hard to use", despite
> the pain one goes through to maintain Apples and Windows machines.
> Well, fine:  now there are Chromebooks.
> 
>> Windows runs only on Windows PC.   Nothing else.  Because it is neither
>> portable nor scalable.   Unix was both from the very beginning.   Look
>> how long it has taken to get Windows running on Arm.  And it is still
>> not perfect.
>>
>> But MacOS has gone thru 3 processor changes.  PPC to Intel to Arm.   All
>> very well done.   Because Unix is scalable and portable.
> 
> Linux has support for 22 architectures by my count.  I don't
> see this as a disadvantage.
> 
>>
>> And you flush money down the toilet to buy a Windows PC and then flush
>> time down the toilet installing Linux.  What is your point?
> 
> What time?  Installing Linux doesn't have to be a trial -- in fact,
> you can do what I did, and buy a system with Linux pre-installed.
> I then went ahead and installed a different distribution on my System76
> workstation -- Linux Mint -- which only took a few minutes.
> 
> Mrs. vallor's workstation took a minute or two longer, because I shrunk
> the Windows partition on the system down to a bare minimum before
> installing Linux Mint there, also.
> 
> And another thing:  about Joel's desire for 32G of memory.  If he has
> 8 cores, and gets into building software with parallel builds, he's
> going to want at least 4G/core -- which would be 32G.  I have 32 cores w/
> hyperthreading, for a total of 64 threads, so it makes sense that I
> have a little over 256G of memory.  Again, YMMV.
> 
> And then, there's this:  besides Linux being pleasant to use
> and configure, it has sound routing capabilities that I
> couldn't duplicate on Windows.  Though controversial in some
> circles, pulseaudio does a fine job of putting the sounds I want
> where I want them.  This boosts the production quality of streams.  For
> example -- when I set it up -- my streams don't have Discord
> notification beeps playing on them.
> 
> Of course, this is light years ahead of your Mac, because there's
> no gaming on Macs to speak of...games are made for PC Windows,
> and Linux supports those through subsystems like wine and proton.
> Sometimes, the "Windows" game runs _better_ on Linux, thanks to
> tricks such as DXVK, which uses Vulkan to service the DX11 and DX12
> ABIs.
> 
> Penultimately, I wanted to mention something that I've seen in these
> advocacy groups, and that is criticizing the Linux of 5- or 10-years ago
> as if it were still like that.  That happens when people try Linux, don't
> like it, and forever affix in their minds that Linux isn't continuously
> advancing.  For example, take printing:  that use to be terrible to
> set up on Linux.  Today, it uses CUPS, the same print subsystem used
> by Macs -- and it is maintained by Apple.
> 
> And finally, it's worth noting that the lines between Linux and Windows
> have blurred a bit, because Linux is now a subsystem in Windows.  Before,
> Microsoft was trying to emulate the Linux ABI -- then they punted, and
> WSL2 is a Linux kernel running as a guest in HyperV.  So in
> conclusion:  Linux is useful, friendly, and everywhere -- even
> in Microsoft Windows.
> 
but how do you see jpegs

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#194004

Fromvallor <vallor@cultnix.org>
Date2025-03-27 03:30 +0000
Message-ID<m4jv2gF3im2U3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#194003
On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 19:49:36 -0700, % <pursent100@gmail.com> wrote in
<C5adneS2PromIXn6nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com>:

> but how do you see jpegs

You double-click on its thumbnail in the file manager, and the image
viewer displays it.

Any questions?

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
   OS: Linux 6.14.0 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
   "What I lack in restraint, I make up for in remorse."

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#193990

FromJoel <joelcrump@gmail.com>
Date2025-03-26 11:57 -0400
Message-ID<us88uj5lv1t5ofbbtg14um6n1g9sgqu8k5@4ax.com>
In reply to#193985
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>> the [Linux] OS us[ed] swap, when main RAM and cache
>>>> saturated the 32 GB.
>>> 
>>> That doesn't actually mean you *need* 32GB. 
>> 
>> Oh sure, I'll just rely on swap!  Great, back to the 1990s, heh.
>
>The OS will always try to maximise RAM usage regardless of how much you
>have. In and of itself is not evidence of the need for that amount of RAM. 
>
>In modern systems there's no noticeable difference when dipping into swap.
>Certainly not when flushing caches. PCI SSD and NVMe hardware are a world
>away from slow spinners of the 90s. 
>
>Despite building your own PC (big deal!) you seem quite ignorant on how it
>works. Sounds like a Mac would actually be better for you. lol. 


The point is, I could run with less RAM, but it'd use swap heavily. 32
GB is about right, for how I use a PC.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#193993

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2025-03-26 20:15 +0000
Message-ID<vs1n9a$2h51b$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#193990
Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>>>> the [Linux] OS us[ed] swap, when main RAM and cache
>>>>> saturated the 32 GB.
>>>> 
>>>> That doesn't actually mean you *need* 32GB. 
>>> 
>>> Oh sure, I'll just rely on swap!  Great, back to the 1990s, heh.
>> 
>> The OS will always try to maximise RAM usage regardless of how much you
>> have. In and of itself is not evidence of the need for that amount of RAM. 
>> 
>> In modern systems there's no noticeable difference when dipping into swap.
>> Certainly not when flushing caches. PCI SSD and NVMe hardware are a world
>> away from slow spinners of the 90s. 
>> 
>> Despite building your own PC (big deal!) you seem quite ignorant on how it
>> works. Sounds like a Mac would actually be better for you. lol. 
> 
> 
> The point is, I could run with less RAM, but it'd use swap heavily. 

There's no evidence of that. Especially given the types of apps you run. 

> 32
> GB is about right, for how I use a PC.

I have a mac with 32GB - not my choice - and use much more resource
demanding apps than you which I almost never use all of it. 


[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#193995

FromJoel <joelcrump@gmail.com>
Date2025-03-26 16:18 -0400
Message-ID<t7o8ujdrv919enebf40j4urhehvc82d5fu@4ax.com>
In reply to#193993
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> Despite building your own PC (big deal!) you seem quite ignorant on how it
>>> works. Sounds like a Mac would actually be better for you. lol. 
>> 
>> The point is, I could run with less RAM, but it'd use swap heavily. 
>
>There's no evidence of that. Especially given the types of apps you run. 
>
>> 32
>> GB is about right, for how I use a PC.
>
>I have a mac with 32GB - not my choice - and use much more resource
>demanding apps than you which I almost never use all of it. 


You have concluded this all from reading my Usenet posts, you must be
psychic, heh.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#194005

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2025-03-27 07:45 +0000
Message-ID<vs2vmf$3oqf3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#193995
Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>>> Despite building your own PC (big deal!) you seem quite ignorant on how it
>>>> works. Sounds like a Mac would actually be better for you. lol. 
>>> 
>>> The point is, I could run with less RAM, but it'd use swap heavily. 
>> 
>> There's no evidence of that. Especially given the types of apps you run. 
>> 
>>> 32
>>> GB is about right, for how I use a PC.
>> 
>> I have a mac with 32GB - not my choice - and use much more resource
>> demanding apps than you which I almost never use all of it. 
> 
> 
> You have concluded this all from reading my Usenet posts, you must be
> psychic, heh.

Nope. You've given enough info to confirm that you're not a power user so a
basic spec machine will be fine for your *needs*. Whether you want more is
up to you. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#194007

FromCrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>
Date2025-03-27 08:41 -0400
Message-ID<XHbFP.1338687$FVcd.581928@fx10.iad>
In reply to#194005
On 2025-03-27 03:45, Chris wrote:
> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Despite building your own PC (big deal!) you seem quite ignorant on how it
>>>>> works. Sounds like a Mac would actually be better for you. lol.
>>>>
>>>> The point is, I could run with less RAM, but it'd use swap heavily.
>>>
>>> There's no evidence of that. Especially given the types of apps you run.
>>>
>>>> 32
>>>> GB is about right, for how I use a PC.
>>>
>>> I have a mac with 32GB - not my choice - and use much more resource
>>> demanding apps than you which I almost never use all of it.
>>
>>
>> You have concluded this all from reading my Usenet posts, you must be
>> psychic, heh.
> 
> Nope. You've given enough info to confirm that you're not a power user so a
> basic spec machine will be fine for your *needs*. Whether you want more is
> up to you.

Realistically, Joel would be fine using a Celeron with no more than 8GB 
of RAM.

-- 
God be with you,

CrudeSausage
John 14:6

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#194009

FromJoel <joelcrump@gmail.com>
Date2025-03-27 12:20 -0400
Message-ID<bkuaujptbd60gk42tca5k8b25onf8gn1p4@4ax.com>
In reply to#194007
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>On 2025-03-27 03:45, Chris wrote:
>> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> 32
>>>>> GB is about right, for how I use a PC.
>>>>
>>>> I have a mac with 32GB - not my choice - and use much more resource
>>>> demanding apps than you which I almost never use all of it.
>>>
>>> You have concluded this all from reading my Usenet posts, you must be
>>> psychic, heh.
>> 
>> Nope. You've given enough info to confirm that you're not a power user so a
>> basic spec machine will be fine for your *needs*. Whether you want more is
>> up to you.
>
>Realistically, Joel would be fine using a Celeron with no more than 8GB 
>of RAM.


Ridiculous, that would function more or less, but not very *well*.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#194024

Frompothead <pothead@snakebite.com>
Date2025-03-28 00:44 +0000
Message-ID<vs4rcr$1f84f$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#194009
On 2025-03-27, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>On 2025-03-27 03:45, Chris wrote:
>>> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> 32
>>>>>> GB is about right, for how I use a PC.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a mac with 32GB - not my choice - and use much more resource
>>>>> demanding apps than you which I almost never use all of it.
>>>>
>>>> You have concluded this all from reading my Usenet posts, you must be
>>>> psychic, heh.
>>> 
>>> Nope. You've given enough info to confirm that you're not a power user so a
>>> basic spec machine will be fine for your *needs*. Whether you want more is
>>> up to you.
>>
>>Realistically, Joel would be fine using a Celeron with no more than 8GB 
>>of RAM.
>
>
> Ridiculous, that would function more or less, but not very *well*.
>
Some people should not be allowed anywhere near a computer.
You are one of them.


-- 
pothead
Liberalism Is A Mental Disease
Treat it accordingly
<https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-14512427/Doctors-reveal-symptoms-Trump-Derangement-Syndrome-tell-youve-got-it.html>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#194026

FromJoel <joelcrump@gmail.com>
Date2025-03-27 21:20 -0400
Message-ID<38ubuj1lcp0ftpkbt3rbgl6pq42s6f9m5c@4ax.com>
In reply to#194024
pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
>On 2025-03-27, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>
>>>Realistically, Joel would be fine using a Celeron with no more than 8GB 
>>>of RAM.
>>
>> Ridiculous, that would function more or less, but not very *well*.
>>
>Some people should not be allowed anywhere near a computer.
>You are one of them.


That's just spew, I'm a fairly accomplished computer user, you aren't
better than me, you aren't so great.  You're just a leftover from
times past, which is why you make such idiotic political statements.
You're an emotional thinker.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#194027

FromAlan <nuh-uh@nope.com>
Date2025-03-27 18:26 -0700
Message-ID<vs4ts2$1h3sr$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#194026
On 2025-03-27 18:20, Joel wrote:
> pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
>> On 2025-03-27, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Realistically, Joel would be fine using a Celeron with no more than 8GB
>>>> of RAM.
>>>
>>> Ridiculous, that would function more or less, but not very *well*.
>>>
>> Some people should not be allowed anywhere near a computer.
>> You are one of them.
> 
> 
> That's just spew, I'm a fairly accomplished computer user, you aren't
> better than me, you aren't so great.  You're just a leftover from
> times past, which is why you make such idiotic political statements.
> You're an emotional thinker.
> 

So it is "fairly accomplished"...

...or 'I'm beyond a "power user".'

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