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Groups > misc.phone.mobile.iphone > #193744 > unrolled thread

Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control

Started byJoel <joelcrump@gmail.com>
First post2025-03-18 18:12 -0400
Last post2025-03-26 11:09 +1300
Articles 11 on this page of 231 — 20 participants

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Contents

  Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-18 18:12 -0400
    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-20 09:14 -0700
      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-20 12:23 -0400
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 13:44 -0400
      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 13:43 -0400
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 19:50 +0000
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Mikey <Mikey.Smith@aol.invalid> - 2025-03-21 15:00 +0000
            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-21 19:59 +0000
            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 16:45 -0400
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 12:26 -0400
            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 23:53 +0000
              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 20:00 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-21 20:27 -0400
                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-22 00:45 +0000
                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 19:57 -0400
                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 21:49 -0400
                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-21 22:29 -0700
                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 16:29 -0400
                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 19:59 -0400
                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 20:14 -0400
                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 20:29 -0400
                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-26 01:59 +0000
                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-03-22 04:54 -0500
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 09:22 +0000
                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-22 19:16 +0000
                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 07:40 +0000
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-20 14:26 -0700
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 17:58 -0400
            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-20 15:52 -0700
              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 20:48 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 12:31 -0400
                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-21 16:47 +0000
                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 13:00 -0400
              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 12:29 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-21 12:40 -0700
                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 15:56 -0400
                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-21 22:27 -0700
                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 16:36 -0400
                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-22 14:04 -0700
                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 17:52 -0400
                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-03-22 19:18 -0400
                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 19:23 -0400
                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-22 19:17 -0700
                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 08:18 -0400
                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-23 12:21 +0000
                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:00 -0400
                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 18:06 +0000
                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:17 -0400
                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 18:22 +0000
                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:35 -0400
                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 18:41 +0000
                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:54 -0400
                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 19:11 +0000
                                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-23 21:05 +0000
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:22 -0700
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 17:31 -0400
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-23 22:34 +0000
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-24 08:53 -0400
                                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-24 13:39 +0000
                                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-24 10:48 -0400
                                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-24 19:59 +0000
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 17:47 -0400
                                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-24 23:12 +0000
                                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 19:36 -0400
                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:42 -0700
                                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 18:57 -0400
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-24 23:20 +0000
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 19:38 -0400
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:46 -0700
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-25 00:59 +0000
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 18:17 -0700
                                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-25 01:30 +0000
                                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:58 -0400
                                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 19:44 -0700
                                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 22:52 -0400
                                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:16 -0700
                                                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 23:24 -0400
                                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:40 -0700
                                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 23:45 -0400
                                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:48 -0700
                                                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:02 -0400
                                                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 21:10 -0700
                                                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:26 -0400
                                                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-04-09 18:40 +0000
                                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-04-09 11:51 -0700
                                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-04-10 10:07 +1200
                                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-09 18:16 -0400
                                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-04-10 19:48 +0000
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:08 -0400
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 18:14 -0700
                                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-24 19:29 -0400
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:46 -0700
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:09 -0400
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-25 06:24 +0000
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 02:31 -0400
                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-03-23 12:20 -0400
                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:13 -0400
                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-03-23 15:39 -0400
                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 15:52 -0400
                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 19:58 +0000
                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 16:11 -0400
                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 22:12 +0000
                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-03-23 16:02 -0400
                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 16:09 -0400
                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 20:25 +0000
                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 16:34 -0400
                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:43 -0700
                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-03-24 09:09 -0400
                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-03-24 20:10 +0000
                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 18:33 +0000
                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:51 -0400
                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 19:06 +0000
                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 15:26 -0400
                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 19:33 +0000
                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:44 -0700
                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 19:11 -0400
                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:47 -0700
                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:11 -0400
                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 18:13 -0700
                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:57 -0400
                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 19:43 -0700
                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 22:54 -0400
                                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:15 -0700
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 23:22 -0400
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:36 -0700
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 23:43 -0400
                                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:49 -0700
                                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:09 -0400
                                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 21:11 -0700
                                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:29 -0400
                                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Rudy Canoza <rc@j.kone.invalid> - 2025-03-25 02:32 -0400
                                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 02:41 -0400
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 18:27 -0400
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-04-04 16:55 -0700
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 20:08 -0400
                                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-04-04 17:10 -0700
                                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 20:21 -0400
                                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-04-04 23:11 -0700
                                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 02:50 -0400
                                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-04-05 16:06 -0400
                                                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 16:17 -0400
                                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-04-05 20:42 -0400
                                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 07:42 -0400
                                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 08:07 -0700
                                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 15:44 -0400
                                                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 12:46 -0700
                                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 15:59 -0400
                                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 13:11 -0700
                                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-07 08:57 -0400
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-04-05 15:49 -0400
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 16:16 -0400
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-06 01:26 +0000
                                                            Re: πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆApple requires too much money and sacrifice of controlπŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ πŸŒˆπŸ’πŸŒ»πŸŒΊπŸŒΉπŸŒ»πŸ’πŸŒ·πŸŒΊπŸŒˆJenπŸŒˆπŸ’πŸŒ»πŸŒΊπŸŒΉπŸŒ»πŸ’πŸŒ·πŸŒΊπŸŒˆ Dershmendenderer πŸ’πŸŒ»πŸŒΊπŸŒΉπŸŒ»πŸ’πŸŒ·πŸŒΊπŸΆη¬›πŸŒˆπŸ’πŸŒ»πŸŒΊπŸŒΉπŸŒ»πŸ’πŸŒ·πŸŒΊπŸŒˆ <root@127.0.0.1>  - 2025-04-06 03:18 +0000
                                                              Re: πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆApple requires too much money and sacrifice of controlπŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-06 03:35 +0000
                                                                Re: πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆApple requires too much money and sacrifice of controlπŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-06 04:31 +0000
                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-22 19:17 -0700
                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-23 03:15 +0000
                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-23 18:01 +1300
                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-23 18:08 +1300
                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-23 05:37 +0000
                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:45 -0700
                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 23:33 -0400
                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:46 -0700
                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 19:13 -0400
                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:47 -0700
                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-25 00:52 +0000
                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:59 -0700
                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:48 -0400
                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 19:43 -0700
                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 22:28 -0400
                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 19:44 -0700
                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 08:43 -0400
                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 08:48 -0400
                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 08:12 +0000
                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 04:20 -0400
                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 18:48 +0000
                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 14:54 -0400
                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-25 17:24 -0700
                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 20:33 -0400
                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-25 18:03 -0700
                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 21:19 -0400
                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 07:40 +0000
                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-26 08:36 -0400
                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 20:15 +0000
                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-27 10:05 +1300
                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 17:43 -0400
                                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-26 19:05 -0400
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 19:17 -0400
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-27 02:25 +0000
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 19:49 -0700
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-27 03:30 +0000
                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 11:57 -0400
                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 20:15 +0000
                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 16:18 -0400
                                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 07:45 +0000
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-27 08:41 -0400
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 12:20 -0400
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-28 00:44 +0000
                                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 21:20 -0400
                                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-27 18:26 -0700
                                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 21:53 -0400
                                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-27 22:42 -0700
                                                                    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-28 01:45 -0400
                                                                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-28 07:50 +0000
                                                              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-28 02:08 +0000
                                                                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 22:16 -0400
                                                      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 12:06 -0400
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 18:11 +0000
                                                        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-28 00:43 +0000
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 21:18 -0400
                                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-28 08:26 -0400
                                          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 14:58 -0400
                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 15:13 -0400
                                            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-26 02:09 +0000
                  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-21 20:33 -0400
    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 00:00 -0400
      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:06 -0400
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 21:09 -0700
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:25 -0400
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 10:13 -0400
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 10:20 -0400
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 11:01 -0400
            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-26 02:05 +0000
      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 08:47 -0400
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 10:35 -0400
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 10:41 -0400
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 11:04 -0400
            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-26 11:09 +1300
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-26 11:16 +1300
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 18:53 +0000
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-26 11:09 +1300

Page 12 of 12 — ← Prev page 1 … 10 11 [12]


#193956

FromJoel <joelcrump@gmail.com>
Date2025-03-25 10:20 -0400
Message-ID<gke5ujln67ri969vivt3169m2id5vp9v22@4ax.com>
In reply to#193955
Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> wrote:

>> >> A Mac mini would be $1400.  What I could build for that is
>> >> unbelievable.  Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK.  I
>> >> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first.
>> >
>> >Yes, Apple costs more than Dell.   And BMWs cost more than Chevys.   And 
>> >steak costs more than chicken.
>> >
>> >What is your point?
>> 
>> It just seems stupid, I'm intelligent enough to handle Linux, why
>> would I screw around with Apple?
>
>I can "handle Linux" too.  I just no longer want to waste my time on 
>that.   I have better things to do with my time.    
>
>Because in the long run, money is easier to accumulate than time.   For 
>all of us. 


The thing is, you achieve with Linux, installing something from the
command line when it isn't conveniently offered in the app store, you
get the hang of it and it becomes natural, it's not as hard as it
looks.  You gain the freedom from commercial platforms.


>> >But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"?   What does that even 
>> >mean?    My Macs are somehow "out of control"?
>> 
>> More on the hardware side, the Mac mini is a pretty nifty solution to
>> the "regular desktop" demand for an Apple device, and I could use one,
>> but it nevertheless lacks the expandability of my real tower desktop
>> system.
>
>Ah yes.   The old "expandability" thing.  
>
>Yeah, that used to be important to me too.    But I no longer care about 
>that.  I just buy what I need.    If I need more later, then I buy a new 
>one and sell the old one.  
>
>Just like we do with cars, microwave ovens, TVs, phones and every other 
>consumer product on the planet.   You can't "expand" any of those.   So 
>why worry about "expanding" something as common as a modern computer 
>that costs less than $700?
>
>Back in the days when $1,500 got you 8K of RAM (yes K), no hard drive 
>(hard drives alone were once $5,000 for 10 MB.  Yes Megabytes), no green 
>screen monitor (that was another $500), one 5" floppy drive and no 
>software except maybe a primitive DOS and a BASIC interpreter, 
>expandability was very important.   You had to protect your initial 
>investment.  
>
>And that was 1980 dollars.    That's like spending $6,000 today on a 
>computer.   Or $8,000 including a monitor and some software.   Or 
>$28,000 including that 10MB hard drive.


My computer will be four years old, next month.  And yet it might as
well be brand new, from my perspective, because I'm not running
Winbloat 11, nor clinging to outdated Windows 10 like the people who
simply refuse to make the leap to Linux.  This device could last me
years to come.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#193959

FromCrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>
Date2025-03-25 11:01 -0400
Message-ID<RyzEP.1333396$_N6e.540798@fx17.iad>
In reply to#193955
On 2025-03-25 10:13, Johnny LaRue wrote:
> In article <cna4uj9rqu12nhgg4r74cne6jo0uacgis2@4ax.com>,
>   Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> wrote:
>>
>>>> A Mac mini would be $1400.  What I could build for that is
>>>> unbelievable.  Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK.  I
>>>> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first.
>>>
>>> Yes, Apple costs more than Dell.   And BMWs cost more than Chevys.   And
>>> steak costs more than chicken.
>>>
>>> What is your point?
>>
>>
>> It just seems stupid, I'm intelligent enough to handle Linux, why
>> would I screw around with Apple?
> 
> I can "handle Linux" too.  I just no longer want to waste my time on
> that.   I have better things to do with my time.
> 
> Because in the long run, money is easier to accumulate than time.   For
> all of us.
> 
>>> But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"?   What does that even
>>> mean?    My Macs are somehow "out of control"?
>>
>>
>> More on the hardware side, the Mac mini is a pretty nifty solution to
>> the "regular desktop" demand for an Apple device, and I could use one,
>> but it nevertheless lacks the expandability of my real tower desktop
>> system.
> 
> Ah yes.   The old "expandability" thing.
> 
> Yeah, that used to be important to me too.    But I no longer care about
> that.  I just buy what I need.    If I need more later, then I buy a new
> one and sell the old one.
> 
> Just like we do with cars, microwave ovens, TVs, phones and every other
> consumer product on the planet.   You can't "expand" any of those.   So
> why worry about "expanding" something as common as a modern computer
> that costs less than $700?
> 
> Back in the days when $1,500 got you 8K of RAM (yes K), no hard drive
> (hard drives alone were once $5,000 for 10 MB.  Yes Megabytes), no green
> screen monitor (that was another $500), one 5" floppy drive and no
> software except maybe a primitive DOS and a BASIC interpreter,
> expandability was very important.   You had to protect your initial
> investment.
> 
> And that was 1980 dollars.    That's like spending $6,000 today on a
> computer.   Or $8,000 including a monitor and some software.   Or
> $28,000 including that 10MB hard drive.

I feel bad for anyone who spent that much money on a computer back in 
the day, only to be told that it was obsolete a year or two later. The 
only affordable options for most people were Atari 800s, Commodore 64s 
or TI994/As, everything else seemed to require us to take a second 
mortgage on our homes.

-- 
God be with you,

CrudeSausage
John 14:6

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#193983

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2025-03-26 02:05 +0000
Message-ID<m4h5o0F4mfhU4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#193959
On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 11:01:05 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

> I feel bad for anyone who spent that much money on a computer back in
> the day, only to be told that it was obsolete a year or two later. The
> only affordable options for most people were Atari 800s, Commodore 64s
> or TI994/As, everything else seemed to require us to take a second
> mortgage on our homes.

When the Osborne 1 came out in 1981 I was happy to pay $1800 for it. I got 
several years use from it before inevitably getting dragged into the MSDOS 
world. 

Later I bought two of the mythical Osborne Executives when the Boston 
Globe was dumping them for PCs. They went at fire sale prices and I 
couldn't resist.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#193952

FromCrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>
Date2025-03-25 08:47 -0400
Message-ID<KBxEP.1621523$TBhc.513900@fx16.iad>
In reply to#193932
On 2025-03-25 00:00, Johnny LaRue wrote:
> In article <uorjtj1svg4iel6a1il22vrqbe394idovc@4ax.com>,
>   Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> A Mac mini would be $1400.  What I could build for that is
>> unbelievable.  Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK.  I
>> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first.
> 
> Yes, Apple costs more than Dell.   And BMWs cost more than Chevys.   And
> steak costs more than chicken.
> 
> What is your point?
> 
> But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"?   What does that even
> mean?    My Macs are somehow "out of control"?

He's suggesting that in addition to Apple devices being more or less a 
walled garden (not really since you can install from outside the Apple 
Store even though the operating system makes that needlessly annoying 
for some applications like Betterbird), you lose control in that your 
hardware is abandoned after a number of years. On an x86-64 machine, 
this isn't a problem since you can go ahead and install Linux. However, 
once Apple decides not to supply you with MacOS anymore, you're stuck. 
You /CAN/ continue to use it, but the lack of updates might make its use 
a danger if you are connecting to the Internet.

-- 
God be with you,

CrudeSausage
John 14:6

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#193957

FromJohnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz>
Date2025-03-25 10:35 -0400
Message-ID<xxxxxx-775AD6.10354825032025@news.supernews.com>
In reply to#193952
In article <KBxEP.1621523$TBhc.513900@fx16.iad>,
 CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:

> On 2025-03-25 00:00, Johnny LaRue wrote:
> > In article <uorjtj1svg4iel6a1il22vrqbe394idovc@4ax.com>,
> >   Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> A Mac mini would be $1400.  What I could build for that is
> >> unbelievable.  Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK.  I
> >> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first.
> > 
> > Yes, Apple costs more than Dell.   And BMWs cost more than Chevys.   And
> > steak costs more than chicken.
> > 
> > What is your point?
> > 
> > But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"?   What does that even
> > mean?    My Macs are somehow "out of control"?
> 
> He's suggesting that in addition to Apple devices being more or less a 
> walled garden (not really since you can install from outside the Apple 
> Store even though the operating system makes that needlessly annoying 
> for some applications like Betterbird), you lose control in that your 
> hardware is abandoned after a number of years. On an x86-64 machine, 
> this isn't a problem since you can go ahead and install Linux. However, 
> once Apple decides not to supply you with MacOS anymore, you're stuck. 
> You /CAN/ continue to use it, but the lack of updates might make its use 
> a danger if you are connecting to the Internet.

Macs continue to run fine.  

I have an 11 year old Mini that works fine.   I have this ancient Dual 
G5 tower (20 years old) that runs fine.   I am using screen sharing (the 
equivalent to remote desktop on Windows) from my M2 Macbook Pro to type 
this message on the PPC G5 tower because I like MT-NewsWatcher.   

I have an even older Dual G4 tower (23 years old, the wind tunnel box 
AKA Mirror Drive Door) that also runs fine.  

No "loss of control" here.   And if installing Linux means you are "in 
control" then I would rather be "out of control".

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#193958

FromJoel <joelcrump@gmail.com>
Date2025-03-25 10:41 -0400
Message-ID<tuf5uj5e2dv4d07jfmorvfei1d2vgpo8df@4ax.com>
In reply to#193957
Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> wrote:
>In article <KBxEP.1621523$TBhc.513900@fx16.iad>,
> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 2025-03-25 00:00, Johnny LaRue wrote:
>> > In article <uorjtj1svg4iel6a1il22vrqbe394idovc@4ax.com>,
>> >   Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > 
>> >> A Mac mini would be $1400.  What I could build for that is
>> >> unbelievable.  Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK.  I
>> >> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first.
>> > 
>> > Yes, Apple costs more than Dell.   And BMWs cost more than Chevys.   And
>> > steak costs more than chicken.
>> > 
>> > What is your point?
>> > 
>> > But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"?   What does that even
>> > mean?    My Macs are somehow "out of control"?
>> 
>> He's suggesting that in addition to Apple devices being more or less a 
>> walled garden (not really since you can install from outside the Apple 
>> Store even though the operating system makes that needlessly annoying 
>> for some applications like Betterbird), you lose control in that your 
>> hardware is abandoned after a number of years. On an x86-64 machine, 
>> this isn't a problem since you can go ahead and install Linux. However, 
>> once Apple decides not to supply you with MacOS anymore, you're stuck. 
>> You /CAN/ continue to use it, but the lack of updates might make its use 
>> a danger if you are connecting to the Internet.
>
>Macs continue to run fine.  
>
>I have an 11 year old Mini that works fine.   I have this ancient Dual 
>G5 tower (20 years old) that runs fine.   I am using screen sharing (the 
>equivalent to remote desktop on Windows) from my M2 Macbook Pro to type 
>this message on the PPC G5 tower because I like MT-NewsWatcher.   
>
>I have an even older Dual G4 tower (23 years old, the wind tunnel box 
>AKA Mirror Drive Door) that also runs fine.  
>
>No "loss of control" here.   And if installing Linux means you are "in 
>control" then I would rather be "out of control".


It's control of what makes up the system, without that you pay a
premium to an OEM like Apple.  I assembled my computer from parts, I
installed the OS and all fresh, myself.  Having to deal with an OEM
would just kill my spirit.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#193960

FromCrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>
Date2025-03-25 11:04 -0400
Message-ID<3CzEP.483868$f81.134402@fx48.iad>
In reply to#193957
On 2025-03-25 10:35, Johnny LaRue wrote:
> In article <KBxEP.1621523$TBhc.513900@fx16.iad>,
>   CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> 
>> On 2025-03-25 00:00, Johnny LaRue wrote:
>>> In article <uorjtj1svg4iel6a1il22vrqbe394idovc@4ax.com>,
>>>    Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A Mac mini would be $1400.  What I could build for that is
>>>> unbelievable.  Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK.  I
>>>> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first.
>>>
>>> Yes, Apple costs more than Dell.   And BMWs cost more than Chevys.   And
>>> steak costs more than chicken.
>>>
>>> What is your point?
>>>
>>> But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"?   What does that even
>>> mean?    My Macs are somehow "out of control"?
>>
>> He's suggesting that in addition to Apple devices being more or less a
>> walled garden (not really since you can install from outside the Apple
>> Store even though the operating system makes that needlessly annoying
>> for some applications like Betterbird), you lose control in that your
>> hardware is abandoned after a number of years. On an x86-64 machine,
>> this isn't a problem since you can go ahead and install Linux. However,
>> once Apple decides not to supply you with MacOS anymore, you're stuck.
>> You /CAN/ continue to use it, but the lack of updates might make its use
>> a danger if you are connecting to the Internet.
> 
> Macs continue to run fine.
> 
> I have an 11 year old Mini that works fine.   I have this ancient Dual
> G5 tower (20 years old) that runs fine.   I am using screen sharing (the
> equivalent to remote desktop on Windows) from my M2 Macbook Pro to type
> this message on the PPC G5 tower because I like MT-NewsWatcher.
> 
> I have an even older Dual G4 tower (23 years old, the wind tunnel box
> AKA Mirror Drive Door) that also runs fine.
> 
> No "loss of control" here.   And if installing Linux means you are "in
> control" then I would rather be "out of control".

On this old Mac, the only advantage I would get from using MacOS is that 
the webcam would work without issue. It is possible to get it working in 
Linux, but it will stop working one kernel update later. The choice is 
therefore between using an outdated MacOS which becomes less secure with 
every passing day but properly supports the hardware or a secure Linux 
which doesn't allow every component to work out of the box. I chose 
Linux since I don't need to be seen through this camera anyway.

-- 
God be with you,

CrudeSausage
John 14:6

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#193970

FromYour Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date2025-03-26 11:09 +1300
Message-ID<vrv9hu$997i$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#193960
On 2025-03-25 15:04:30 +0000, CrudeSausage said:
> On 2025-03-25 10:35, Johnny LaRue wrote:
>> In article <KBxEP.1621523$TBhc.513900@fx16.iad>,
>> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 2025-03-25 00:00, Johnny LaRue wrote:
>>>> In article <uorjtj1svg4iel6a1il22vrqbe394idovc@4ax.com>,
>>>> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> A Mac mini would be $1400.  What I could build for that is
>>>>> unbelievable.  Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK.  I
>>>>> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first.
>>>> 
>>>> Yes, Apple costs more than Dell.   And BMWs cost more than Chevys.   And
>>>> steak costs more than chicken.
>>>> 
>>>> What is your point?
>>>> 
>>>> But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"?   What does that even
>>>> mean?    My Macs are somehow "out of control"?
>>> 
>>> He's suggesting that in addition to Apple devices being more or less a
>>> walled garden (not really since you can install from outside the Apple
>>> Store even though the operating system makes that needlessly annoying
>>> for some applications like Betterbird), you lose control in that your
>>> hardware is abandoned after a number of years. On an x86-64 machine,
>>> this isn't a problem since you can go ahead and install Linux. However,
>>> once Apple decides not to supply you with MacOS anymore, you're stuck.
>>> You /CAN/ continue to use it, but the lack of updates might make its use
>>> a danger if you are connecting to the Internet.
>> 
>> Macs continue to run fine.
>> 
>> I have an 11 year old Mini that works fine.   I have this ancient Dual
>> G5 tower (20 years old) that runs fine.   I am using screen sharing (the
>> equivalent to remote desktop on Windows) from my M2 Macbook Pro to type
>> this message on the PPC G5 tower because I like MT-NewsWatcher.
>> 
>> I have an even older Dual G4 tower (23 years old, the wind tunnel box
>> AKA Mirror Drive Door) that also runs fine.
>> 
>> No "loss of control" here.   And if installing Linux means you are "in
>> control" then I would rather be "out of control".
> 
> On this old Mac, the only advantage I would get from using MacOS is 
> that the webcam would work without issue. It is possible to get it 
> working in Linux, but it will stop working one kernel update later. The 
> choice is therefore between using an outdated MacOS which becomes less 
> secure with every passing day

Old devices actually become *more* secure because most of the hackers 
and malware makers, like every other fool, insist on moving to the very 
latest shiny new toy on the block with the most users and "zero-day" 
holes, rather than wasting time on an old version of the OS with a 
dwindling user base.

Besides which, Macs are more secure out of the box to begin with. I've 
been using and supporting other people's Apple devices since the days 
of the Apple II and I have never ever seen any of them infected with 
malware. Windows boxes on the other hand are constantly infected with 
virus crap (although a little less these days), sometimes to the point 
that there is so much malware and anti-malware that they struggle to 
even boot - you just have to blink your eyes "wrong" and Windows gets 
virus infected.



> but properly supports the hardware or a secure Linux which doesn't 
> allow every component to work out of the box. I chose Linux since I 
> don't need to be seen through this camera anyway.

That is of course because Apple controls the software and the main 
hardware, so they know exactly what they have put in the OS to make it 
work. Windows, Linux, Andoird, etc. are separate from the hardware 
maker, so have to try to support numerous different combinations of 
varying hardware.

There's the largely true (again a little less so these days) old saying:
   "Mac has plug and play, Windows has plug and pray."   :-)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#193972

FromYour Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date2025-03-26 11:16 +1300
Message-ID<vrv9vd$9mgl$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#193957
On 2025-03-25 14:35:48 +0000, Johnny LaRue said:

> In article <KBxEP.1621523$TBhc.513900@fx16.iad>,
>  CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> 
>> On 2025-03-25 00:00, Johnny LaRue wrote:
>>> In article <uorjtj1svg4iel6a1il22vrqbe394idovc@4ax.com>,
>>> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> A Mac mini would be $1400.  What I could build for that is
>>>> unbelievable.  Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK.  I
>>>> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first.
>>> 
>>> Yes, Apple costs more than Dell.   And BMWs cost more than Chevys.   And
>>> steak costs more than chicken.
>>> 
>>> What is your point?
>>> 
>>> But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"?   What does that even
>>> mean?    My Macs are somehow "out of control"?
>> 
>> He's suggesting that in addition to Apple devices being more or less a
>> walled garden (not really since you can install from outside the Apple
>> Store even though the operating system makes that needlessly annoying
>> for some applications like Betterbird), you lose control in that your
>> hardware is abandoned after a number of years. On an x86-64 machine,
>> this isn't a problem since you can go ahead and install Linux. However,
>> once Apple decides not to supply you with MacOS anymore, you're stuck.
>> You /CAN/ continue to use it, but the lack of updates might make its use
>> a danger if you are connecting to the Internet.
> 
> Macs continue to run fine.
> 
> I have an 11 year old Mini that works fine.   I have this ancient Dual
> G5 tower (20 years old) that runs fine.   I am using screen sharing (the
> equivalent to remote desktop on Windows) from my M2 Macbook Pro to type
> this message on the PPC G5 tower because I like MT-NewsWatcher.
> 
> I have an even older Dual G4 tower (23 years old, the wind tunnel box
> AKA Mirror Drive Door) that also runs fine.
> 
> No "loss of control" here.   And if installing Linux means you are "in
> control" then I would rather be "out of control".

I used my beige G3 for 20 years, daily use, before it died with a 
motherboard hardware failure.

I replaced it with a 2014 Mac Mini (bought new in 2018) that is still 
running fine with High Sierra - they only noticeable "problem" is the 
old version of Safari starting to have issues with the very occasional 
website, but switching to Firefox solves that and I can't be bothered 
updating to a newer version of MacOS and the various apps.

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#193965

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2025-03-25 18:53 +0000
Message-ID<vruu2r$3umka$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#193952
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2025-03-25 00:00, Johnny LaRue wrote:
>> In article <uorjtj1svg4iel6a1il22vrqbe394idovc@4ax.com>,
>> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> A Mac mini would be $1400.  What I could build for that is
>>> unbelievable.  Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK.  I
>>> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first.
>> 
>> Yes, Apple costs more than Dell.   And BMWs cost more than Chevys.   And
>> steak costs more than chicken.
>> 
>> What is your point?
>> 
>> But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"?   What does that even
>> mean?    My Macs are somehow "out of control"?
> 
> He's suggesting that in addition to Apple devices being more or less a 
> walled garden (not really since you can install from outside the Apple 
> Store even though the operating system makes that needlessly annoying 
> for some applications like Betterbird), you lose control in that your 
> hardware is abandoned after a number of years. On an x86-64 machine, 
> this isn't a problem since you can go ahead and install Linux. However, 
> once Apple decides not to supply you with MacOS anymore, you're stuck. 
> You /CAN/ continue to use it, but the lack of updates might make its use 
> a danger if you are connecting to the Internet.

You can also update via OCLP. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#193971

FromYour Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date2025-03-26 11:09 +1300
Message-ID<vrv9it$997i$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#193952
On 2025-03-25 12:47:39 +0000, CrudeSausage said:

> On 2025-03-25 00:00, Johnny LaRue wrote:
>> In article <uorjtj1svg4iel6a1il22vrqbe394idovc@4ax.com>,
>> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> A Mac mini would be $1400.  What I could build for that is
>>> unbelievable.  Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK.  I
>>> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first.
>> 
>> Yes, Apple costs more than Dell.   And BMWs cost more than Chevys.   And
>> steak costs more than chicken.
>> 
>> What is your point?
>> 
>> But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"?   What does that even
>> mean?    My Macs are somehow "out of control"?
> 
> He's suggesting that in addition to Apple devices being more or less a 
> walled garden (not really since you can install from outside the Apple 
> Store even though the operating system makes that needlessly annoying 
> for some applications like Betterbird), you lose control in that your 
> hardware is abandoned after a number of years. On an x86-64 machine, 
> this isn't a problem since you can go ahead and install Linux. However, 
> once Apple decides not to supply you with MacOS anymore, you're stuck. 
> You /CAN/ continue to use it, but the lack of updates might make its 
> use a danger if you are connecting to the Internet.

If you really wanted to, you can install Linux on a Mac that is 
supposedly "too old" as well.

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