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dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade

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  dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2019-08-13 20:10 +0200
    Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-13 21:30 +0200
      Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2019-08-14 07:50 +0200
        Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-14 08:50 +0200
          Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2019-08-14 09:00 +0200
            Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-14 09:30 +0200
              Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-08-14 10:30 +0200
        Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-15 19:00 +0200
          Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-08-15 19:20 +0200
            Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-15 20:50 +0200
              Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-08-15 21:10 +0200
                Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-15 21:50 +0200
                  Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-16 09:00 +0200
                    Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-16 12:20 +0200
                    Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-16 20:20 +0200
                      Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-16 21:40 +0200
                        Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-17 00:30 +0200
                          Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-17 12:00 +0200
                            Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-17 13:20 +0200
              Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2019-08-15 23:20 +0200
                Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-15 23:40 +0200
                  Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-16 09:00 +0200
                    Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-08-16 14:50 +0200
                      Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-16 16:30 +0200
            Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-15 21:00 +0200
          Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2019-08-16 11:10 +0200
            Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-16 12:10 +0200
              Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-08-16 12:30 +0200
                Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-16 12:50 +0200
                  Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-16 13:00 +0200
                    Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-08-16 13:10 +0200
                      Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-16 13:20 +0200
                        Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-08-16 13:30 +0200
                          Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-16 13:50 +0200
                            Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-08-16 14:00 +0200
                  Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-08-16 13:00 +0200
            Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-08-16 12:30 +0200
    Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-17 20:20 +0200
      Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2019-08-18 12:30 +0200
        Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-18 15:20 +0200
          Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-18 17:00 +0200
            Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2019-08-19 09:30 +0200
              Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-19 09:40 +0200
                Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2019-08-19 10:00 +0200
                  Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-19 10:50 +0200
                  Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-08-19 21:10 +0200
                    Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-19 21:20 +0200
                Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Bastien Durel <bastien@durel.org> - 2019-08-19 10:50 +0200
                  Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-19 11:00 +0200
                    Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Bastien Durel <bastien@durel.org> - 2019-08-19 12:00 +0200
                      Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-19 12:10 +0200
                      Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-08-19 16:20 +0200
                        Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade Bastien Durel <bastien@durel.org> - 2019-08-19 18:20 +0200
          Re: dbus-deamon avoiding reboot after upgrade john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2019-08-18 17:00 +0200

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#212842

On Thu 15 Aug 2019 at 22:15:59 +0100, Tixy wrote:

> On Thu, 2019-08-15 at 19:41 +0100, Brian wrote:
> > The fact remains that dbus is not a DE only package. How did anyone
> > get the idea it was?
> 
> Perhaps because D-Bus stands for Desktop Bus and according to Wikipedia
> [1]
> 
>    D-Bus was developed as part of the freedesktop.org project [...] to
>    standardize services provided by Linux desktop environments such as
>    GNOME and KDE.
> 
> It's seems quite reasonable to me for people to jump to the conclusion
> that it's not likely relevant for servers.
> 
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Bus

Jumping to conclusions is the ideal way of neglecting facts and promoting
fallacious assertions. I have given two examples that challenge

  dbus "...is redundant for typical server software"

-- 
Brian.

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#212848

On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 10:36:57PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Thu 15 Aug 2019 at 22:15:59 +0100, Tixy wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 2019-08-15 at 19:41 +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > The fact remains that dbus is not a DE only package. How did anyone
> > > get the idea it was?
> > 
> > Perhaps because D-Bus stands for Desktop Bus and according to Wikipedia
> > [1]
> > 
> >    D-Bus was developed as part of the freedesktop.org project [...] to
> >    standardize services provided by Linux desktop environments such as
> >    GNOME and KDE.
> > 
> > It's seems quite reasonable to me for people to jump to the conclusion
> > that it's not likely relevant for servers.
> > 
> > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Bus
> 
> Jumping to conclusions is the ideal way of neglecting facts and promoting
> fallacious assertions. I have given two examples that challenge
> 
>   dbus "...is redundant for typical server software"

The first one being "apt cache rdepends"? You can do better than this.

The second one being CUPS? dbus is not required for printing itself.

Reco

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#212869

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 09:53:20AM +0300, Reco wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 10:36:57PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Thu 15 Aug 2019 at 22:15:59 +0100, Tixy wrote:
> > 
> > > On Thu, 2019-08-15 at 19:41 +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > > The fact remains that dbus is not a DE only package. How did anyone
> > > > get the idea it was?
> > > 
> > > Perhaps because D-Bus stands for Desktop Bus and according to Wikipedia
> > > [1]
> > > 
> > >    D-Bus was developed as part of the freedesktop.org project [...] to
> > >    standardize services provided by Linux desktop environments such as
> > >    GNOME and KDE.
> > > 
> > > It's seems quite reasonable to me for people to jump to the conclusion
> > > that it's not likely relevant for servers.
> > > 
> > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Bus
> > 
> > Jumping to conclusions is the ideal way of neglecting facts and promoting
> > fallacious assertions. I have given two examples that challenge
> > 
> >   dbus "...is redundant for typical server software"
> 
> The first one being "apt cache rdepends"? You can do better than this.
> 
> The second one being CUPS? dbus is not required for printing itself.

Also, most servers don't deal with ink-and-paper printing.  At all.

Brian asked how people would conclude things about D-Bus, and Tixy gave
a completely legitimate answer.  It was an answer I had been considering
writing myself, but I was lazy.

The name is *literally* an abbreviation for Desktop Bus, and you (Brian)
claim you don't understand why people think it's only for desktop systems?
Come on.

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#212877

On Fri 16 Aug 2019 at 08:39:43 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 09:53:20AM +0300, Reco wrote:
> > On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 10:36:57PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > On Thu 15 Aug 2019 at 22:15:59 +0100, Tixy wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Thu, 2019-08-15 at 19:41 +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > > > The fact remains that dbus is not a DE only package. How did anyone
> > > > > get the idea it was?
> > > > 
> > > > Perhaps because D-Bus stands for Desktop Bus and according to Wikipedia
> > > > [1]
> > > > 
> > > >    D-Bus was developed as part of the freedesktop.org project [...] to
> > > >    standardize services provided by Linux desktop environments such as
> > > >    GNOME and KDE.
> > > > 
> > > > It's seems quite reasonable to me for people to jump to the conclusion
> > > > that it's not likely relevant for servers.
> > > > 
> > > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Bus
> > > 
> > > Jumping to conclusions is the ideal way of neglecting facts and promoting
> > > fallacious assertions. I have given two examples that challenge
> > > 
> > >   dbus "...is redundant for typical server software"
> > 
> > The first one being "apt cache rdepends"? You can do better than this.
> > 
> > The second one being CUPS? dbus is not required for printing itself.
> 
> Also, most servers don't deal with ink-and-paper printing.  At all.

I don't quite follow that, but is it of great importance? Some do, and
then dbus will be involved in advertising print queues to clients.

> Brian asked how people would conclude things about D-Bus, and Tixy gave
> a completely legitimate answer.  It was an answer I had been considering
> writing myself, but I was lazy.
> 
> The name is *literally* an abbreviation for Desktop Bus, and you (Brian)
> claim you don't understand why people think it's only for desktop systems?
> Come on.

I own up to reading solely the primary source at freedesktop. I can find
no reference there to dbus being required only when (to quote John Doe)

 > a DE (Gnome,Mate, ...) is present.

Whatever the genesis of the application's name and function, it has
evidently moved on in the last 10+ years. firewalld (which looks like a
good candidate for use on a server) also depends on dbus.

-- 
Brian.

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#212837

On Thu 15 Aug 2019 at 19:14:19 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 05:52:39PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > Those setting up a print server would likely not see a corner case here.
> 
> CUPS depends on avahi depends somehow on dbus. Try some day lprng,
> works a charm :-)

I forgot: the cups package does not depend on avahi-daemon; it is a
Recommends:. avahi-daemon does depend on dbus.

The OP is setting up a "server". Whatever he means by that is left
unsaid.

-- 
Brian.

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#212851

On 8/15/2019 6:52 PM, Brian wrote:
> On Wed 14 Aug 2019 at 07:36:21 +0200, john doe wrote:
>
>> Hi Rico, and thanks for your answer.
>>
>> On 8/13/2019 9:25 PM, Reco wrote:
>>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 08:07:49PM +0200, john doe wrote:
>>>> I have no plan to reboot that server, what are the pros and cons of not
>>>> doing that
>>>
>>> Pro: keeping uptime
>>> Con: keeping previous, possibly buggy, version for dbus running.
>>>
>>>> or how can I avoid rebooting altogether?
>>>
>>> dbus is not mandatory and is redundant for typical server software.
>>> If you don't need it - just uninstall it. Simple as that.
>>>
>>
>> okay, dbus is only required when a DE (Gnome,Mate, ...) is present.
>> If I'm correct, and given the fact that I don't use a DE, I could look
>> at safely remove it?
>
> You are not correct. 'apt rdepends dbus' is worth looking at.
>>

Okay, as far as I understand it, depends means that it will be pulled as
an dependency but not that it is required for it to work properly.
What I'm starting to realise is that to much dependencies are pulled to
implement lots of feature that is not always necessery.


Before posting to the list, a google search let me think that dbus is
only required when DE is wanted.
Do you have online documentation that would explain why dbus is required
when no DE is used?


P.S.

The Debian bugreport provided in this thread seems to corroborate your
pointbut  I can't find something tangible to back that up.

--
John Doe

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#212852

On Fri 16 Aug 2019 at 11:06:43 +0200, john doe wrote:

> On 8/15/2019 6:52 PM, Brian wrote:
> > On Wed 14 Aug 2019 at 07:36:21 +0200, john doe wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Rico, and thanks for your answer.
> >>
> >> On 8/13/2019 9:25 PM, Reco wrote:
> >>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 08:07:49PM +0200, john doe wrote:
> >>>> I have no plan to reboot that server, what are the pros and cons of not
> >>>> doing that
> >>>
> >>> Pro: keeping uptime
> >>> Con: keeping previous, possibly buggy, version for dbus running.
> >>>
> >>>> or how can I avoid rebooting altogether?
> >>>
> >>> dbus is not mandatory and is redundant for typical server software.
> >>> If you don't need it - just uninstall it. Simple as that.
> >>>
> >>
> >> okay, dbus is only required when a DE (Gnome,Mate, ...) is present.
> >> If I'm correct, and given the fact that I don't use a DE, I could look
> >> at safely remove it?
> >
> > You are not correct. 'apt rdepends dbus' is worth looking at.
> >>
> 
> Okay, as far as I understand it, depends means that it will be pulled as
> an dependency but not that it is required for it to work properly.
> What I'm starting to realise is that to much dependencies are pulled to
> implement lots of feature that is not always necessery.
> 
> 
> Before posting to the list, a google search let me think that dbus is
> only required when DE is wanted.
> Do you have online documentation that would explain why dbus is required
> when no DE is used?

As

https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/dbus/

says:

  > D-Bus is a message bus system, a simple way for applications to
  > talk to one another.

There is no mention of DEs on that page. dbus is for any application to
talk to any other application.
 
> P.S.
> 
> The Debian bugreport provided in this thread seems to corroborate your
> pointbut  I can't find something tangible to back that up.

As Reco said:

  > If you don't need it - just uninstall it.

What do you get for 'apt purge dbus'?

-- 
Brian.

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#212855

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 11:03:41AM +0100, Brian wrote:

[...]

> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/dbus/
                  ^^^^^^^

;-)

[...]

> As Reco said:
> 
>   > If you don't need it - just uninstall it.
> 
> What do you get for 'apt purge dbus'?

Not the OP, but here's mine:

  tomas@trotzki:~$ sudo apt purge dbus
  [sudo] password for tomas: 
  Reading package lists... Done
  Building dependency tree       
  Reading state information... Done
  Package 'dbus' is not installed, so not removed
  0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.

And this is:

  tomas@trotzki:~$ uname -a
  Linux trotzki 4.9.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.168-1+deb9u5 (2019-08-11) x86_64 GNU/Linux
  tomas@trotzki:~$ cat /etc/debian_version 
  9.9

so it's Stretch, aka oldstable. And oh, of course with an X GUI.

Cheers
-- tomás

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#212856

On Fri 16 Aug 2019 at 12:24:14 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 11:03:41AM +0100, Brian wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/dbus/
>                   ^^^^^^^
> 
> ;-)

DE - Desktop *Environment*. A case of selective censorship? :)

> [...]
> 
> > As Reco said:
> > 
> >   > If you don't need it - just uninstall it.
> > 
> > What do you get for 'apt purge dbus'?
> 
> Not the OP, but here's mine:
> 
>   tomas@trotzki:~$ sudo apt purge dbus
>   [sudo] password for tomas: 
>   Reading package lists... Done
>   Building dependency tree       
>   Reading state information... Done
>   Package 'dbus' is not installed, so not removed
>   0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.

On my print server with buster:

    root@futro:~# apt purge dbus
    Reading package lists... Done
    Building dependency tree       
    Reading state information... Done
    The following packages will be REMOVED:
      dbus* libpam-systemd*
    0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 2 to remove and 3 not upgraded.
    After this operation, 1,057 kB disk space will be freed.

Mmm. I think Reco has led me to a state of enlightenment!

-- 
Brian.

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#212857

On Fri 16 Aug 2019 at 11:48:30 +0100, Brian wrote:

> On my print server with buster:
> 
>     root@futro:~# apt purge dbus
>     Reading package lists... Done
>     Building dependency tree       
>     Reading state information... Done
>     The following packages will be REMOVED:
>       dbus* libpam-systemd*
>     0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 2 to remove and 3 not upgraded.
>     After this operation, 1,057 kB disk space will be freed.

Don't get the idea I am using lprng.  avahi-daemon is not on the list
because I choose not to advertise the print queues on this server.

-- 
Brian.

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#212859

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On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 11:54:50AM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 16 Aug 2019 at 11:48:30 +0100, Brian wrote:
> 
> > On my print server with buster:
> > 
> >     root@futro:~# apt purge dbus
> >     Reading package lists... Done
> >     Building dependency tree       
> >     Reading state information... Done
> >     The following packages will be REMOVED:
> >       dbus* libpam-systemd*
> >     0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 2 to remove and 3 not upgraded.
> >     After this operation, 1,057 kB disk space will be freed.
> 
> Don't get the idea I am using lprng.  avahi-daemon is not on the list
> because I choose not to advertise the print queues on this server.

No, I didn't get that idea -- wasn't it you who reminded us that CUPS
doesn't require avahi-daemon?

Cheers
-- tomás

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#212860

On Fri 16 Aug 2019 at 13:01:10 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 11:54:50AM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Fri 16 Aug 2019 at 11:48:30 +0100, Brian wrote:
> > 
> > > On my print server with buster:
> > > 
> > >     root@futro:~# apt purge dbus
> > >     Reading package lists... Done
> > >     Building dependency tree       
> > >     Reading state information... Done
> > >     The following packages will be REMOVED:
> > >       dbus* libpam-systemd*
> > >     0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 2 to remove and 3 not upgraded.
> > >     After this operation, 1,057 kB disk space will be freed.
> > 
> > Don't get the idea I am using lprng.  avahi-daemon is not on the list
> > because I choose not to advertise the print queues on this server.
> 
> No, I didn't get that idea -- wasn't it you who reminded us that CUPS
> doesn't require avahi-daemon?

I don't think so; not in this thread anyway.

-- 
Brian.

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#212861

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On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 12:15:18PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 16 Aug 2019 at 13:01:10 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

[...]

> > No, I didn't get that idea -- wasn't it you who reminded us that CUPS
> > doesn't require avahi-daemon?
> 
> I don't think so; not in this thread anyway.

I'm getting old, so this piqued somewhat my vanity. I double-checked:

In Message-ID: <15082019194357.c7ba6d840bb7@desktop.copernicus.org.uk>

[me]
>> CUPS depends on avahi depends somehow on dbus. Try some day lprng,
>> works a charm :-)

[you]
>> I forgot: the cups package does not depend on avahi-daemon; it is a
>> Recommends:. avahi-daemon does depend on dbus.

Cheers
-- t

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#212862

On Fri 16 Aug 2019 at 13:21:11 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 12:15:18PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Fri 16 Aug 2019 at 13:01:10 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > > No, I didn't get that idea -- wasn't it you who reminded us that CUPS
> > > doesn't require avahi-daemon?
> > 
> > I don't think so; not in this thread anyway.
> 
> I'm getting old, so this piqued somewhat my vanity. I double-checked:
> 
> In Message-ID: <15082019194357.c7ba6d840bb7@desktop.copernicus.org.uk>
> 
> [me]
> >> CUPS depends on avahi depends somehow on dbus. Try some day lprng,
> >> works a charm :-)
> 
> [you]
> >> I forgot: the cups package does not depend on avahi-daemon; it is a
> >> Recommends:. avahi-daemon does depend on dbus.

It's a fair cop!

-- 
Brian.

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#212863

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On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 12:46:17PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 16 Aug 2019 at 13:21:11 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

> > I'm getting old, so this piqued somewhat my vanity. I double-checked:

[...]

> It's a fair cop!

:-)

Cheers
-- t

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#212858

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On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 11:48:30AM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 16 Aug 2019 at 12:24:14 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 11:03:41AM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/dbus/
> >                   ^^^^^^^
> > 
> > ;-)
> 
> DE - Desktop *Environment*. A case of selective censorship? :)

Censorship? I didn't get that pun (promised! :)

[...]

Cheers
-- t

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#212854

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On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 11:06:43AM +0200, john doe wrote:

[...]

> Okay, as far as I understand it, depends means that it will be pulled as
> an dependency but not that it is required for it to work properly.
> What I'm starting to realise is that to much dependencies are pulled to
> implement lots of feature that is not always necessery.

That very much depends on the application: some (mis?) use dbus as a
dynamic linking facility which could be as well served by shared objects.

Kind of a Rube Goldberg way of doing dynamic linking -- but that's my
opinion, you'll find others.

Bluez is one example. Since it is the only bluetooth framework available
under Linux, that means: no dbus -> no bluetooth.

Others just complain that there's no dbus and carry on (X is one example.
This from my Xorg.0.log (line wrap by me):

  [   354.912] (EE) dbus-core: error connecting to system bus:
              org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.FileNotFound (Failed to connect
              to socket /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket: No such file or
              directory)

> Before posting to the list, a google search let me think that dbus is
> only required when DE is wanted.
> Do you have online documentation that would explain why dbus is required
> when no DE is used?

It is a desktop invention (it was introduced by Havoc Pennington, after
much frustration trying to adopt Corba for the Gnome Desktop: compared
to that, DBus was, indeed, progress. KDE had a similar frustration with
its own distributed object monster -- uh -- model and followed suit).

But since then it has expanded to non-desktop things.

I've got quite a few beefs with DBus, which I won't expand here, but
that's why I try to find out how far I can go without it. Turns out,
for my use case, pretty far.

Cheers
-- tomás

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#212919

On Tue 13 Aug 2019 at 20:07:49 +0200, john doe wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> While upgrading the dbus deamon, I get the following:
> 
> "A reboot is required to replace the running dbus-daemon.
> Please reboot the system when convenient."
> 
> 
> I have no plan to reboot that server, what are the pros and cons of not
> doing that or how can I avoid rebooting altogether?

In the light of Curt's reference to #805449 and your reluctance to
provide any extra information on the server setup you have in mind,
your plan will have to accomodate reality. Reboot and be done with
it.

-- 
Brian.

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#212928

On 8/17/2019 8:15 PM, Brian wrote:
> On Tue 13 Aug 2019 at 20:07:49 +0200, john doe wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> While upgrading the dbus deamon, I get the following:
>>
>> "A reboot is required to replace the running dbus-daemon.
>> Please reboot the system when convenient."
>>
>>
>> I have no plan to reboot that server, what are the pros and cons of not
>> doing that or how can I avoid rebooting altogether?
>
> In the light of Curt's reference to #805449 and your reluctance to
> provide any extra information on the server setup you have in mind,
> your plan will have to accomodate reality. Reboot and be done with
> it.
>

From reading this thread, here's what I understand:

Despide the word desktop being thrown everyware (URL of the page given
in this thread, ...) it has now moved to be use or at the very least
installed, on non-desktop host.

If the above is correct, is there a rule to determine if dbus is required?
Relying on apt/apt-get is something that I'm not comfortable with! :)


Thanks to anyone who has given me their thoughts.


--
John Doe

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#212929

On Sun 18 Aug 2019 at 12:17:59 +0200, john doe wrote:

> On 8/17/2019 8:15 PM, Brian wrote:
> > On Tue 13 Aug 2019 at 20:07:49 +0200, john doe wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> While upgrading the dbus deamon, I get the following:
> >>
> >> "A reboot is required to replace the running dbus-daemon.
> >> Please reboot the system when convenient."
> >>
> >>
> >> I have no plan to reboot that server, what are the pros and cons of not
> >> doing that or how can I avoid rebooting altogether?
> >
> > In the light of Curt's reference to #805449 and your reluctance to
> > provide any extra information on the server setup you have in mind,
> > your plan will have to accomodate reality. Reboot and be done with
> > it.
> >
> 
> From reading this thread, here's what I understand:
> 
> Despide the word desktop being thrown everyware (URL of the page given
> in this thread, ...) it has now moved to be use or at the very least
> installed, on non-desktop host.
> 
> If the above is correct, is there a rule to determine if dbus is required?
> Relying on apt/apt-get is something that I'm not comfortable with! :)

The -s option to apt could make you feel more comfortable if you are
concerned about damaging the system. Otherwise, 'aptitude why dbus'.

-- 
Brian.

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