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Getting packages from stable again instead of unstable

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  Getting packages from stable again instead of unstable Rick Macdonald <rickmacd@shaw.ca> - 2018-07-19 19:00 +0200
    Re: Getting packages from stable again instead of unstable Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2018-07-19 20:20 +0200
      Re: Getting packages from stable again instead of unstable Rick Macdonald <rickmacd@shaw.ca> - 2018-07-20 00:50 +0200
      Re: Getting packages from stable again instead of unstable Rick Macdonald <rickmacd@shaw.ca> - 2018-07-21 23:20 +0200
        Re: Getting packages from stable again instead of unstable john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2018-07-22 11:00 +0200
    Re: Getting packages from stable again instead of unstable Jochen Spieker <ml@well-adjusted.de> - 2018-07-20 00:20 +0200
    Re: Getting packages from stable again instead of unstable songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2018-07-20 06:40 +0200

#197805 — Getting packages from stable again instead of unstable

I'm going to pose my question here at the top in case it can be answered 
without wading through all the details that follow:

Now that I have removed unstable form sources.list and preferences 
(pinning), won't my packages from unstable eventually be upgraded from 
stable as the stable versions become newer than the unstable packages 
that I currently have installed? Or might I hit some dependency problems 
along the way? Should I instead do the downgrades now by pinning stable 
to priority 1001 (with I'm guessing is a one-time thing to do, and then 
remove the pinning)?

Here is the background:

I upgraded to stretch back in November or so, and a couple of programs 
that installed OK didn't actually run properly. I grabbed them from 
unstable and all was good again.

Today I removed all references to unstable in sources.list, and the 
pinning for unstable that I had in preferences.

Prior to removing unstable from sources.list and preferences, "apt-show 
versions | grep unstable" showed, for example:

deluge:all/unstable 1.3.15-2 uptodate

"unstable" is gone from show-versions so I grep for "newer" instead. Now 
it shows:

deluge:all 1.3.15-2 newer than version in archive

Here is the full list of "newer" files:

# apt-show-versions |grep newer
deluge:all 1.3.15-2 newer than version in archive
deluge-common:all 1.3.15-2 newer than version in archive
deluge-console:all 1.3.15-2 newer than version in archive
deluge-gtk:all 1.3.15-2 newer than version in archive
deluge-web:all 1.3.15-2 newer than version in archive
deluged:all 1.3.15-2 newer than version in archive
fontconfig-config:all 2.13.0-5 newer than version in archive
libbluray1:amd64 2:0.7.0-dmo1 newer than version in archive
libboost-chrono1.62.0:amd64 1.62.0+dfsg-7 newer than version in archive
libboost-python1.62.0:amd64 1.62.0+dfsg-7 newer than version in archive
libboost-random1.62.0:amd64 1.62.0+dfsg-7 newer than version in archive
libfontconfig1:amd64 2.13.0-5 newer than version in archive
libfontconfig1:i386 2.13.0-5 newer than version in archive
libnss3:amd64 2:3.38-1 newer than version in archive
libnss3:i386 2:3.38-1 newer than version in archive
libtorrent-rasterbar9:amd64 1.1.5-1+b1 newer than version in archive
python-attr:all 17.4.0-2 newer than version in archive
python-click:all 6.7-5 newer than version in archive
python-libtorrent:amd64 1.1.5-1+b1 newer than version in archive
python-serial:all 3.4-3 newer than version in archive
python-twisted-bin:amd64 18.4.0-2 newer than version in archive
python-twisted-core:all 18.4.0-2 newer than version in archive
python-zope.interface:amd64 4.3.2-1+b2 newer than version in archive
rtmpdump:amd64 2:201412272202-git-1 newer than version in archive
yasm:amd64 1.3.0-dmo2 newer than version in archive

Here is the list of downgrades if I pin stable to 1001:

The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer 
required:
   fonts-stix libevent-2.1-6 libhunspell-1.6-0 libjsoncpp1 libvpx5 
python-automat python-hyperlink
Use 'apt autoremove' to remove them.
The following packages will be REMOVED:
   firefox
The following NEW packages will be installed:
   python-twisted-web
The following packages will be DOWNGRADED:
   deluge deluge-common deluge-console deluge-gtk deluge-web deluged 
fontconfig-config libbluray1 libboost-chrono1.62.0 libboost-python1.62.0 
libboost-random1.62.0 libfontconfig1
   libfontconfig1:i386 libnss3 libnss3:i386 libtorrent-rasterbar9 
python-attr python-click python-libtorrent python-serial 
python-twisted-bin python-twisted-core python-zope.interface
   rtmpdump yasm
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 25 downgraded, 1 to remove and 0 not 
upgraded.

It shows the same 25 packages as the list of "newer" above, but I don't 
like that it wants to remove firefox. I have version 58.0.1 installed, 
and to be honest I can't figure out where this version came from. I do 
have some backports installed but that's not where firefox came from:

# dpkg-query -W | grep '~bpo'
libcec3v4:amd64 3.1.0+dfsg1-4~bpo8+2
libcrossguid0v4:amd64   0.0+git200150803-2~bpo8+1
libmysqlclient18:i386   5.6.30-1~bpo8+1
libp8-platform2v4:amd64 2.0.1+dfsg1-1~bpo8+1
libx265-79:amd64        1.9-3~bpo8+1
remmina 1.2.0-rcgit.24-2~bpo9+1
remmina-common  1.2.0-rcgit.24-2~bpo9+1
remmina-plugin-rdp:amd64        1.2.0-rcgit.24-2~bpo9+1
remmina-plugin-vnc:amd64        1.2.0-rcgit.24-2~bpo9+1

My question is: If I just leave it be, won't the packages eventually be 
upgraded from stable as the stable versions become newer than the 
unstable packages that I currently have installed? Or might I hit some 
dependency problems along the way? Should I instead do the downgrades 
now by pinning stable to priority 1001 (with I'm guessing is a one-time 
thing to do, and then remove the pinning)?

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#197807

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 10:43:51AM -0600, Rick Macdonald wrote:
> I'm going to pose my question here at the top in case it can be answered
> without wading through all the details that follow:
> 
> Now that I have removed unstable form sources.list and preferences
> (pinning), won't my packages from unstable eventually be upgraded from
> stable as the stable versions become newer than the unstable packages that I
> currently have installed? 

This process will take years.

Stable is stable. Any given package in Stretch, you should
expect it not to change versions until the next stable release,
Buster.

(but don't depend on that: there are interim security updates to
an unpredictable variety of packages)



> Or might I hit some dependency problems along the
> way? Should I instead do the downgrades now by pinning stable to priority
> 1001 (with I'm guessing is a one-time thing to do, and then remove the
> pinning)?


It depends on how many unstable packages you have. Let's read
the rest of your message.

> Here is the background:
> 
> I upgraded to stretch back in November or so, and a couple of programs that
> installed OK didn't actually run properly. I grabbed them from unstable and
> all was good again.
> 
> Today I removed all references to unstable in sources.list, and the pinning
> for unstable that I had in preferences.
> 
> Prior to removing unstable from sources.list and preferences, "apt-show
> versions | grep unstable" showed, for example:
> 
> deluge:all/unstable 1.3.15-2 uptodate
> 
> "unstable" is gone from show-versions so I grep for "newer" instead. Now it
> shows:
> 
> deluge:all 1.3.15-2 newer than version in archive
> 
> Here is the full list of "newer" files:
> 
> # apt-show-versions |grep newer
> deluge:all 1.3.15-2 newer than version in archive
> deluge-common:all 1.3.15-2 newer than version in archive
> deluge-console:all 1.3.15-2 newer than version in archive
> deluge-gtk:all 1.3.15-2 newer than version in archive
> deluge-web:all 1.3.15-2 newer than version in archive
> deluged:all 1.3.15-2 newer than version in archive
> fontconfig-config:all 2.13.0-5 newer than version in archive
> libbluray1:amd64 2:0.7.0-dmo1 newer than version in archive
> libboost-chrono1.62.0:amd64 1.62.0+dfsg-7 newer than version in archive
> libboost-python1.62.0:amd64 1.62.0+dfsg-7 newer than version in archive
> libboost-random1.62.0:amd64 1.62.0+dfsg-7 newer than version in archive
> libfontconfig1:amd64 2.13.0-5 newer than version in archive
> libfontconfig1:i386 2.13.0-5 newer than version in archive
> libnss3:amd64 2:3.38-1 newer than version in archive
> libnss3:i386 2:3.38-1 newer than version in archive
> libtorrent-rasterbar9:amd64 1.1.5-1+b1 newer than version in archive
> python-attr:all 17.4.0-2 newer than version in archive
> python-click:all 6.7-5 newer than version in archive
> python-libtorrent:amd64 1.1.5-1+b1 newer than version in archive
> python-serial:all 3.4-3 newer than version in archive
> python-twisted-bin:amd64 18.4.0-2 newer than version in archive
> python-twisted-core:all 18.4.0-2 newer than version in archive
> python-zope.interface:amd64 4.3.2-1+b2 newer than version in archive
> rtmpdump:amd64 2:201412272202-git-1 newer than version in archive
> yasm:amd64 1.3.0-dmo2 newer than version in archive

This isn't absolutely awful; you can recover from this.

> Here is the list of downgrades if I pin stable to 1001:
> 
> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer
> required:
>   fonts-stix libevent-2.1-6 libhunspell-1.6-0 libjsoncpp1 libvpx5
> python-automat python-hyperlink
> Use 'apt autoremove' to remove them.
> The following packages will be REMOVED:
>   firefox
> The following NEW packages will be installed:
>   python-twisted-web
> The following packages will be DOWNGRADED:
>   deluge deluge-common deluge-console deluge-gtk deluge-web deluged
> fontconfig-config libbluray1 libboost-chrono1.62.0 libboost-python1.62.0
> libboost-random1.62.0 libfontconfig1
>   libfontconfig1:i386 libnss3 libnss3:i386 libtorrent-rasterbar9 python-attr
> python-click python-libtorrent python-serial python-twisted-bin
> python-twisted-core python-zope.interface
>   rtmpdump yasm
> 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 25 downgraded, 1 to remove and 0 not
> upgraded.
> 
> It shows the same 25 packages as the list of "newer" above, but I don't like
> that it wants to remove firefox. I have version 58.0.1 installed, and to be
> honest I can't figure out where this version came from. I do have some
> backports installed but that's not where firefox came from:
> 
> # dpkg-query -W | grep '~bpo'
> libcec3v4:amd64 3.1.0+dfsg1-4~bpo8+2
> libcrossguid0v4:amd64   0.0+git200150803-2~bpo8+1
> libmysqlclient18:i386   5.6.30-1~bpo8+1
> libp8-platform2v4:amd64 2.0.1+dfsg1-1~bpo8+1
> libx265-79:amd64        1.9-3~bpo8+1
> remmina 1.2.0-rcgit.24-2~bpo9+1
> remmina-common  1.2.0-rcgit.24-2~bpo9+1
> remmina-plugin-rdp:amd64        1.2.0-rcgit.24-2~bpo9+1
> remmina-plugin-vnc:amd64        1.2.0-rcgit.24-2~bpo9+1
> 
> My question is: If I just leave it be, won't the packages eventually be
> upgraded from stable as the stable versions become newer than the unstable
> packages that I currently have installed? Or might I hit some dependency
> problems along the way? Should I instead do the downgrades now by pinning
> stable to priority 1001 (with I'm guessing is a one-time thing to do, and
> then remove the pinning)?

I would do the downgrades. Then do an "apt-get clean", and after that,
re-install firefox-esr. If you want an up-to-date firefox,
install it directly from Mozilla in /opt/firefox.

When you have a limited requirement for unstable or testing
packages, you can use pinning to get just those packages and
their dependencies. That's much more manageable than just
blasting off in the direction of unstable.


-dsr-

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#197813

On 19/07/18 12:19 PM, Dan Ritter wrote:
> This isn't absolutely awful; you can recover from this.
>
>> Here is the list of downgrades if I pin stable to 1001:
>>
>> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer
>> required:
>>    fonts-stix libevent-2.1-6 libhunspell-1.6-0 libjsoncpp1 libvpx5
>> python-automat python-hyperlink
>> Use 'apt autoremove' to remove them.
>> The following packages will be REMOVED:
>>    firefox
>> The following NEW packages will be installed:
>>    python-twisted-web
>> The following packages will be DOWNGRADED:
>>    deluge deluge-common deluge-console deluge-gtk deluge-web deluged
>> fontconfig-config libbluray1 libboost-chrono1.62.0 libboost-python1.62.0
>> libboost-random1.62.0 libfontconfig1
>>    libfontconfig1:i386 libnss3 libnss3:i386 libtorrent-rasterbar9 python-attr
>> python-click python-libtorrent python-serial python-twisted-bin
>> python-twisted-core python-zope.interface
>>    rtmpdump yasm
>> 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 25 downgraded, 1 to remove and 0 not
>> upgraded.
>>
>> It shows the same 25 packages as the list of "newer" above, but I don't like
>> that it wants to remove firefox. I have version 58.0.1 installed, and to be
>> honest I can't figure out where this version came from. I do have some
>> backports installed but that's not where firefox came from:
>>
>> # dpkg-query -W | grep '~bpo'
>> libcec3v4:amd64 3.1.0+dfsg1-4~bpo8+2
>> libcrossguid0v4:amd64   0.0+git200150803-2~bpo8+1
>> libmysqlclient18:i386   5.6.30-1~bpo8+1
>> libp8-platform2v4:amd64 2.0.1+dfsg1-1~bpo8+1
>> libx265-79:amd64        1.9-3~bpo8+1
>> remmina 1.2.0-rcgit.24-2~bpo9+1
>> remmina-common  1.2.0-rcgit.24-2~bpo9+1
>> remmina-plugin-rdp:amd64        1.2.0-rcgit.24-2~bpo9+1
>> remmina-plugin-vnc:amd64        1.2.0-rcgit.24-2~bpo9+1
>>
>> My question is: If I just leave it be, won't the packages eventually be
>> upgraded from stable as the stable versions become newer than the unstable
>> packages that I currently have installed? Or might I hit some dependency
>> problems along the way? Should I instead do the downgrades now by pinning
>> stable to priority 1001 (with I'm guessing is a one-time thing to do, and
>> then remove the pinning)?
> I would do the downgrades. Then do an "apt-get clean", and after that,
> re-install firefox-esr. If you want an up-to-date firefox,
> install it directly from Mozilla in /opt/firefox.
>
> When you have a limited requirement for unstable or testing
> packages, you can use pinning to get just those packages and
> their dependencies. That's much more manageable than just
> blasting off in the direction of unstable.

Dan, thank-you so much for your reply.

I've been running Debian since maybe mid 1995, well before Bruce 
released Buzz. That doesn't make me smart, just old.  ;-)  This is the 
first time in all these years that I felt I needed mixed packages.

I certainly don't think I "blasted off in the direction of unstable". My 
stance was that I had "a limited requirement for unstable", and thought 
that's what I did. If you don't mind, here's what I did for your insight 
in case I could have done better. Because I had never mixed packages or 
used pinning, I was and still am a bit vague about it.

With unstable in my sources.list, and the following preferences file, I 
installed only deluge using "apt-get -t unstable install deluge", or 
maybe the deluge/unstable format. I may have grabbed another one or two 
library packages in desperation, but I think the rest were dragged in as 
dependencies.

> Package: *
> Pin: release  a=stretch
> Pin-Priority: 700
>
> Package: *
> Pin: release a=stretch-backports
> Pin-Priority: 650
>
> Package: *
> Pin: release a=unstable
> Pin-Priority: 100

Thanks!
Rick

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#197852

On 19/07/18 12:19 PM, Dan Ritter wrote:
> I would do the downgrades. Then do an "apt-get clean", and after that,
> re-install firefox-esr. If you want an up-to-date firefox,
> install it directly from Mozilla in /opt/firefox.

Thanks to Dan, Jochen and songbird for the advice to do the downgrade. I 
backed up some config files and let it rip, and it did it all perfectly.

I'm giving the latest firefox directly from Mozilla a try. Easy to 
install and is running now. I've always used deb packages (iceweasel, 
firefox-esr, etc) but from time to time I had reason to notice that the 
stable version was old.

Cheers!

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#197874

On 7/21/2018 11:14 PM, Rick Macdonald wrote:
> On 19/07/18 12:19 PM, Dan Ritter wrote:
>> I would do the downgrades. Then do an "apt-get clean", and after that,
>> re-install firefox-esr. If you want an up-to-date firefox,
>> install it directly from Mozilla in /opt/firefox.
> 
> Thanks to Dan, Jochen and songbird for the advice to do the downgrade. I 
> backed up some config files and let it rip, and it did it all perfectly.
> 
> I'm giving the latest firefox directly from Mozilla a try. Easy to 
> install and is running now. I've always used deb packages (iceweasel, 
> firefox-esr, etc) but from time to time I had reason to notice that the 
> stable version was old.
> 

That is expected:

https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-choosing.en.html

-- 
John Doe

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#197812

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Rick Macdonald:
> 
> Now that I have removed unstable form sources.list and preferences
> (pinning), won't my packages from unstable eventually be upgraded from
> stable as the stable versions become newer than the unstable packages that I
> currently have installed?

Yes, "eventually". At some unknown time in the future. Probably. That
point in time will most probably coincide with a new stable release.
Stable does not change very often, as the name implies.

> Or might I hit some dependency problems along the way?

That is a possibility.

> Should I instead do the downgrades now by pinning stable to priority
> 1001 (with I'm guessing is a one-time thing to do, and then remove the
> pinning)?

I would try to force this downgrade (if it is for a very limited set of
packages as in your case) using '-t stable' or 'package=<version in
stable>. If that doesn't work, remove and reinstall. But your approach
appears to work as well. I am not surprised that apt wants to remove a
seemingly unrelated package. Just let it do that and reinstall that
package.

Generally, downgrades are not supported. And generally, mixing packages
from different releases is neither supported nor a great idea.

J.
-- 
Ultimately, the Millenium Dome is a spectacular monument of the
doublethink of our times.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
                 <http://archive.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html>

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#197821

Rick Macdonald wrote:
> I'm going to pose my question here at the top in case it can be answered 
> without wading through all the details that follow:
>
> Now that I have removed unstable form sources.list and preferences 
> (pinning), won't my packages from unstable eventually be upgraded from 
> stable as the stable versions become newer than the unstable packages 
> that I currently have installed? Or might I hit some dependency problems 
> along the way? Should I instead do the downgrades now by pinning stable 
> to priority 1001 (with I'm guessing is a one-time thing to do, and then 
> remove the pinning)?
...

  you can look at this using synaptic and see what is
grouped where by origin or status.

  in the case where you've removed sources.list entries
things may appear as obsolete.

  anyways, no, some of those packages may never be
updated to newer versions for all sorts of reasons
(usually a bug prevents the package from getting 
into testing).

  if the list is limited and you don't have a lot
of data at risk for destruction or re-entry you can
downgrade, but i usually purge and reinstall if i can
instead.


  songbird

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