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Latest version of X not starting in buster

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  Latest version of X not starting in buster Siard <shiems146@kpnplanet.nl> - 2018-06-12 17:10 +0200
    Re: Latest version of X not starting in buster Jörg-Volker Peetz <jvpeetz@web.de> - 2018-06-13 15:10 +0200
      [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in buster Siard <shiems146@kpnplanet.nl> - 2018-06-13 17:30 +0200
        Re: [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in buster Jörg-Volker Peetz <jvpeetz@web.de> - 2018-06-14 12:50 +0200
          Re: [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in  buster Siard <shiems146@kpnplanet.nl> - 2018-06-14 15:50 +0200
            Re: [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in buster Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2018-06-14 17:50 +0200
              Re: [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in buster Jörg-Volker Peetz <jvpeetz@web.de> - 2018-06-14 19:20 +0200
              Re: [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in  buster Siard <shiems146@kpnplanet.nl> - 2018-06-16 12:10 +0200
                Re: [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in buster Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-06-16 13:20 +0200
                Re: [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in buster Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-06-16 21:30 +0200
                  Re: [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in  buster Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2018-06-17 00:30 +0200
                  Re: [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in  buster Charlie S <taoquester@gmail.com> - 2018-06-17 00:50 +0200
                    Re: [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in buster Dominic Knight <dominicknight@gmx.com> - 2018-06-17 05:50 +0200
                      Re: [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in  buster Charlie S <taoquester@gmail.com> - 2018-06-17 09:10 +0200

#196595 — Latest version of X not starting in buster

A couple of months ago, xserver-common, xserver-xorg-core and xserver-xorg-legacy
were upgraded from version 1.19.2 to 1.19.6 in Buster.

But since then, when starting X from the console, the process soon comes to a
grinding halt. These are the last lines:

(==) Log file: "/home/<user>/local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log", Time: Tue Jun 12 16:18:18 2018
(==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf"
(==) Using config directory: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d"
(==) Using system config directory "/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d"

When I downgrade the three packages back to 1.19.2, same as in Stretch, then
X starts without problems.
Now that 1.19.6 still does not work after a few months, what could be the reason?


These are the last lines in the mentioned log file:

[    30.968] (EE) xf86OpenSerial: Cannot open device /dev/console
	Permission denied.
[    30.968] (II) console: opening input device '/dev/console' failed (Permission denied).
[    30.968] (II) console - failed to create input device '/dev/console'.
[    30.968] (EE) libinput: (unnamed): Failed to create a device for /dev/console
[    30.968] (EE) PreInit returned 2 for "(unnamed)"
[    30.968] (II) UnloadModule: "libinput"
[    30.968] (II) config/udev: Adding input device (unnamed) (/dev/ptmx)
[    30.968] (**) (unnamed): Applying InputClass "Logitech USB Laser Mouse"
[    30.968] (II) Using input driver 'libinput' for '(unnamed)'
[    30.969] (EE) systemd-logind: failed to take device /dev/ptmx: No such device
[    30.969] (**) (unnamed): always reports core events
[    30.969] (**) Option "Device" "/dev/ptmx"
[    30.969] (**) Option "_source" "server/udev"

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#196632

Which version of the systemd packages (udev, libsystemd0, etc.) is installed?
On my testing/unstable systems X can be started using "startx" with xorg-server
version 2:1.20.0-2 but systemd packages in version 237. systemd 238 is not working.

Regards,
jvp.

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#196637 — [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in buster

Jörg-Volker Peetz wrote:
> Which version of the systemd packages (udev, libsystemd0, etc.) is
> installed?

238-5.

> On my testing/unstable systems X can be started using "startx" with
> xorg-server version 2:1.20.0-2 but systemd packages in version 237.
> systemd 238 is not working.

I took a try and upgraded the xserver-*** packages in testing to version
2:1.20.0 taken from unstable.
It did work; X (started with 'startx') is back, despite the systemd
packages having version 238.
It looks like things will be back to normal after the next upgrade of
X in testing.  Anyway, thanks for responding.

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#196668 — Re: [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in buster

Siard wrote on 06/13/18 17:28:
<snip>
> I took a try and upgraded the xserver-*** packages in testing to version
> 2:1.20.0 taken from unstable.
> It did work; X (started with 'startx') is back, despite the systemd
> packages having version 238.
> It looks like things will be back to normal after the next upgrade of
> X in testing.  Anyway, thanks for responding.
> 
Which init package do you use? On my systems it's sysvinit-core.

Regards,
jvp.

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#196673 — Re: [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in buster

On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 12:40 +0200, Jörg-Volker Peetz wrote:
> Siard wrote on 06/13/18 17:28:
> > <snip>
> > I took a try and upgraded the xserver-*** packages in testing to
> > version 2:1.20.0 taken from unstable.
> > It did work; X (started with 'startx') is back, despite the systemd
> > packages having version 238.
> > It looks like things will be back to normal after the next upgrade
> > of X in testing.  Anyway, thanks for responding.
>
> Which init package do you use? On my systems it's sysvinit-core.

systemd at the moment.  sysvinit-core is not installed.

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#196680 — Re: [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in buster

On 6/14/18, Siard <shiems146@kpnplanet.nl> wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 12:40 +0200, Jörg-Volker Peetz wrote:
>> Siard wrote on 06/13/18 17:28:
>> > <snip>
>> > I took a try and upgraded the xserver-*** packages in testing to
>> > version 2:1.20.0 taken from unstable.
>> > It did work; X (started with 'startx') is back, despite the systemd
>> > packages having version 238.
>> > It looks like things will be back to normal after the next upgrade
>> > of X in testing.  Anyway, thanks for responding.
>>
>> Which init package do you use? On my systems it's sysvinit-core.
>
> systemd at the moment.  sysvinit-core is not installed.


Just throwing this out there. xinit is mine (on Xfce4). It's always
high on my to-do list immediately after initial debootstrap installs.

While searching my inbox to see what had come up in the past,
xserver-xorg-legacy had a few mentions related to startx/xinit. One
person, Debian user Jason, experienced success by *removing* it
instead of installing, but I don't know the advisability of going that
route since I've never had to tinker with it myself. :)

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/07/msg00640.html

And user Gareth discovered that their window manager had been removed
during an upgrade:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/08/msg00222.html

In your original post, you said:

> But since then, when starting X from the console, the process soon comes to a
> grinding halt. These are the last lines:

> (==) Log file: "/home/<user>/local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log", Time: Tue Jun 12 16:18:18
> 2018
> (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf"
> (==) Using config directory: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d"
> (==) Using system config directory "/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d"

*My* kneejerk reaction is it *looks like* it's searching for a hint
that it's not finding.

THEN AGAIN... it's also possible that's just saying that it
successfully completed those steps and then got hung up. My same file
went straight to /usr/share. The lines immediately after it reference
not finding yada-yada so it falls back on default. :)

One or more of those three paths received mentions in the various
threads I found. Maybe searching the Debian-User archives will turn up
a user-specific tweak that needs done there?

PS and by the way, those references pulled up related to xinit,
startx, and xserver-xorg-legacy. All three were used as standalone
keywords during searches. Mentioning that in case it helps narrow down
a related search.

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

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#196684 — Re: [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in buster

Cindy-Sue Causey wrote on 06/14/18 17:44:
> On 6/14/18, Siard <shiems146@kpnplanet.nl> wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 12:40 +0200, Jörg-Volker Peetz wrote:
>>> Siard wrote on 06/13/18 17:28:
>>>> <snip>
>>>> I took a try and upgraded the xserver-*** packages in testing to
>>>> version 2:1.20.0 taken from unstable.
>>>> It did work; X (started with 'startx') is back, despite the systemd
>>>> packages having version 238.
>>>> It looks like things will be back to normal after the next upgrade
>>>> of X in testing.  Anyway, thanks for responding.
>>>
>>> Which init package do you use? On my systems it's sysvinit-core.
>>
>> systemd at the moment.  sysvinit-core is not installed.
> 
> 
> Just throwing this out there. xinit is mine (on Xfce4). It's always
> high on my to-do list immediately after initial debootstrap installs.
> 
Could it be that you're confusing xinit (which facilitates starting X) and the
system init? I was talking about the system init and that on my systems for this
purpose sysvinit is used and not systemd's init.

<snip>

Regards,
Jörg.

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#196721 — Re: [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in buster

On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 11:44 -0400, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
> On 6/14/18, Siard <shiems146@kpnplanet.nl> wrote:
> > On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 12:40 +0200, Jörg-Volker Peetz wrote:
> > > Siard wrote on 06/13/18 17:28:
> > > > <snip>
> > > > I took a try and upgraded the xserver-*** packages in testing to
> > > > version 2:1.20.0 taken from unstable.
> > > > It did work; X (started with 'startx') is back, despite the
> > > > systemd packages having version 238.
> > > > It looks like things will be back to normal after the next
> > > > upgrade of X in testing.  Anyway, thanks for responding.
> > >
> > > Which init package do you use? On my systems it's sysvinit-core.
> >
> > systemd at the moment.  sysvinit-core is not installed.
>
> Just throwing this out there. xinit is mine (on Xfce4). It's always
> high on my to-do list immediately after initial debootstrap installs.
> 
> While searching my inbox to see what had come up in the past,
> xserver-xorg-legacy had a few mentions related to startx/xinit. One
> person, Debian user Jason, experienced success by *removing* it
> instead of installing, but I don't know the advisability of going that
> route since I've never had to tinker with it myself. :)
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/07/msg00640.html
> 
> And user Gareth discovered that their window manager had been removed
> during an upgrade:
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/08/msg00222.html

Jörg-Volker's post prompted me to upgrade xserver-** to 1.20.0 taken
from unstable, and everything is fine again.
Since upgrading xserver-xorg-core caused a whole bunch of packages with
'xserver' in their name to upgrade with it, I'm somewhat reluctant to
downgrade all that to 1.19.6 to sort out what was wrong.

Now in some local list, I've heard someone maintain that starting X
with startx is very old, untested, deprecated, certainly in a systemd
environment. A display manager would control various things concerning
your login session in cooperation with systemd.
I've never heard of that. Is it true, should one refrain from using
startx nowadays?

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#196722 — Re: [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in buster

Siard composed on 2018-06-16 12:06 (UTC+0200):

> Now in some local list, I've heard someone maintain that starting X
> with startx is very old, untested, deprecated, certainly in a systemd
> environment. A display manager would control various things concerning
> your login session in cooperation with systemd.
> I've never heard of that. Is it true, should one refrain from using
> startx nowadays?

'Tis an oft repeated song of openSUSE developers, especially on mailing lists,
but see e.g.:
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=974660
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1089620#c1
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=88900#c8
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=83020#c1
-- 
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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#196726 — Re: [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in buster

On Sat 16 Jun 2018 at 12:06:24 +0200, Siard wrote:

> Now in some local list, I've heard someone maintain that starting X
> with startx is very old, untested, deprecated, certainly in a systemd
> environment. A display manager would control various things concerning
> your login session in cooperation with systemd.
> I've never heard of that. Is it true, should one refrain from using
> startx nowadays?

Old? Indeed. Prehistoric even. :) That's its charm.

Untested? Not at all; many test it all the time

Deprecated? By whom? And why?

Refrain from using it? It works well on Debian.

-- 
Brian.

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#196727 — Re: [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in buster

On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 20:19:15 +0100
Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:

> On Sat 16 Jun 2018 at 12:06:24 +0200, Siard wrote:
> 
> > Now in some local list, I've heard someone maintain that starting X
> > with startx is very old, untested, deprecated, certainly in a
> > systemd environment. A display manager would control various things
> > concerning your login session in cooperation with systemd.
> > I've never heard of that. Is it true, should one refrain from using
> > startx nowadays?  
> 
> Old? Indeed. Prehistoric even. :) That's its charm.
> 
> Untested? Not at all; many test it all the time
> 
> Deprecated? By whom? And why?
> 
> Refrain from using it? It works well on Debian.

+1

I use startx manually (my Stretch system by default boots to a
terminal), but don't use a desktop or environment, just Openbox as a
window manager and a single LXPanel.  Plus, I use sysvinit as the init.
Although the systemd libraries are still there for dependencies.
Easier than trying to have a systemd-free system.  No problems so far.

B

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#196728 — Re: [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in buster

On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 20:19:15 +0100 Brian sent:

> On Sat 16 Jun 2018 at 12:06:24 +0200, Siard wrote:
> 
> > Now in some local list, I've heard someone maintain that starting X
> > with startx is very old, untested, deprecated, certainly in a
> > systemd environment. A display manager would control various things
> > concerning your login session in cooperation with systemd.
> > I've never heard of that. Is it true, should one refrain from using
> > startx nowadays?  
> 
> Old? Indeed. Prehistoric even. :) That's its charm.
> 
> Untested? Not at all; many test it all the time
> 
> Deprecated? By whom? And why?
> 
> Refrain from using it? It works well on Debian.
> 


	After contemplation, my reply is:

I use only startx with verbosity. So I can see if the boot lags or
stalls or stops and where, on all Debian installs. Have used an
alternative GUI start system [display manager] many years ago, for a
few days, just to see what it did. I suppose they still have a twirling
thingy on the monitor while the machine boots?

Way back in the mists of time, when windows was still used, changed
windows to start verbose as well. However, it was hardly verbose. Very
secretive that O/S.

Startx works a treat. May it be long available. But may there also be
choice, for those who wish to go another way.

Be well,
Charlie

-- 
	Registered Linux User:- 329524
	***********************************************

	If anything in nature strikes you as ugly, you are not
	appreciating its diversity. ..anon

	***********************************************

	Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.

	-----------------------------------------------------

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#196729 — Re: [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in buster

On Sun, 2018-06-17 at 08:41 +1000, Charlie S wrote:
> 
> 
> 	After contemplation, my reply is:
>  I suppose they still have a
> twirling
> thingy on the monitor while the machine boots?
> 
> Be well,
> Charlie
> 
Sorry, there is no longer enough time for one of those to be drawn ;)
 systemd-analyze
Startup finished in 2.382s (kernel) + 6.090s (userspace) = 8.473s
graphical.target reached after 6.081s in userspace

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#196732 — Re: [Solved, largely] Re: Latest version of X not starting in buster

On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 04:44:45 +0100 Dominic Knight sent:

> On Sun, 2018-06-17 at 08:41 +1000, Charlie S wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 	After contemplation, my reply is:
> >  I suppose they still have a
> > twirling
> > thingy on the monitor while the machine boots?
> > 
> > Be well,
> > Charlie
> >   
> Sorry, there is no longer enough time for one of those to be drawn ;)
>  systemd-analyze
> Startup finished in 2.382s (kernel) + 6.090s (userspace) = 8.473s
> graphical.target reached after 6.081s in userspace

	After contemplation, my reply is:

Certainly faster than mine:

 systemd-analyze
Startup finished in 4.757s (kernel) + 16.494s (userspace) = 21.251s

Be well,
Charlie

-- 
	Registered Linux User:- 329524
	***********************************************

	Nothing is certain but uncertainty. ...G. K. Chesterton

	***********************************************

	Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.

	-----------------------------------------------------

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