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Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

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  Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi,  debian does not Dean Valentine <deanvalentine@lhsla.org> - 2017-03-15 06:20 +0100
    Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi,  debian does not Johann Spies <johann.spies@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 07:00 +0100
      Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi,  debian does not Tim Ye <tim.ye0@aliyun.com> - 2017-03-15 10:10 +0100
        Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi,  debian does not Davor Balder <davor@cropakglobal.com> - 2017-03-15 10:30 +0100
        Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi,  debian does not Dean Valentine <deanvalentine@lhsla.org> - 2017-03-15 16:10 +0100
          Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi,  debian does not Pete Orrall <pete@cs1x.com> - 2017-03-15 16:50 +0100
            Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi,  debian does not Dean Valentine <deanvalentine@lhsla.org> - 2017-03-16 05:30 +0100
              Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi,  debian does not Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-16 15:10 +0100
          Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi,  debian does not Peter Hillier-Brook <phb@hbsys.plus.com> - 2017-03-15 17:10 +0100
            Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi,  debian does not Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 18:30 +0100
              Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi,  debian does not Pete Orrall <pete@cs1x.com> - 2017-03-15 19:50 +0100
                Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi,  debian does not Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-15 20:30 +0100
                  Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi,  debian does not Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 21:30 +0100
              Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu,  Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-15 19:50 +0100
                Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu,  Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-15 21:30 +0100
                  Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu,  Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-16 02:30 +0100
                    Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu,  Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-16 16:20 +0100
                  Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu,  Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not GiaThnYgeia <GiaThnYgeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-03-16 04:30 +0100
                    Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu,  Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-16 12:50 +0100
                      Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu,  Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not GiaThnYgeia <GiaThnYgeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-03-16 14:00 +0100
                        Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu,  Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-03-16 14:10 +0100
                          Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu,  Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-16 18:10 +0100
                            Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu,  Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-16 21:30 +0100
                              Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu,  Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-17 17:00 +0100
                                Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu,  Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-17 20:20 +0100
                                  Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu,  Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not cbannister@slingshot.co.nz - 2017-04-01 15:00 +0200
                                    Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu,  Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-04-01 15:40 +0200
                                    Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu,  Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-04-01 21:50 +0200
                              Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-17 18:10 +0100
                                Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu,  Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-17 21:40 +0100
          Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi,  debian does not Davor Balder <davor@cropakglobal.com> - 2017-03-16 04:20 +0100
            Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi,  debian does not Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> - 2017-03-16 04:30 +0100
              Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi,  debian does not David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-16 04:40 +0100
                Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi,  debian does not Carl Fink <carl@finknetwork.com> - 2017-03-16 14:50 +0100
    Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi,  debian does not Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2017-03-15 07:50 +0100
      Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi,  debian does not Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 21:00 +0200
        Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 21:30 +0200

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#178910 — Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 12:52:00PM +0000, GiaThnYgeia wrote:
> Brian:
> 
> > Documentation dispels ignorance. Dispelling ignorance requires the
> > co-operation of the user.

:-)

> To recapitulate, the purpose of the list as I understand it is not to
> answer practical problems with "read the manual".  It defeats the purpose.

I think you're being a bit unfair here. Brian has surely done a bit
beyond saying "read the manual". He has provided leads to the relevant
spots in there.

As a user, I'd perhaps wished for a friendlier tone, but hey.

And mentioning the docs & reminding people that "yes, folks, it's
there, look..." is *helpful*, because it helps people finding things
next time.

As a case in point, I remember how I felt the first time I had a
look at rsync's (or find's) man page. "O $DEITY! So much stuff, I
don't find anything". Nowadays I couldn't do without.

That's why, when someone pops up here with a thing and I can help
at all, I try to say, but also to show *where* in the docs. It's
not nitpickery, but helping people help themselves (and ultimately,
help others). I see that in Brian's attempts too (Brian: am I
reading too much in your mails?)

regards
- -- t
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#178933 — Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

On Thu 16 Mar 2017 at 14:05:17 (+0100), tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 12:52:00PM +0000, GiaThnYgeia wrote:
> > Brian:
> > 
> > > Documentation dispels ignorance. Dispelling ignorance requires the
> > > co-operation of the user.
> 
> :-)
> 
> > To recapitulate, the purpose of the list as I understand it is not to
> > answer practical problems with "read the manual".  It defeats the purpose.
> 
> I think you're being a bit unfair here. Brian has surely done a bit
> beyond saying "read the manual". He has provided leads to the relevant
> spots in there.

He showed a much better path to the important web page
http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/
He hasn't disagreed with my analysis of why people can get
stuck on another pathway to the ISO files on that page,
particularly the people desiring a network installation.

But the Installation Manual comment, particularly the rhetorical
question, was a cheap shot IMO. Navigating these pages should be
straightforward. Any indication that the Installation Manual
is going to help that navigation, or should help, is laughable
and contradicts the very raison d'être of the web.

> As a user, I'd perhaps wished for a friendlier tone, but hey.
> 
> And mentioning the docs & reminding people that "yes, folks, it's
> there, look..." is *helpful*, because it helps people finding things
> next time.
> 
> As a case in point, I remember how I felt the first time I had a
> look at rsync's (or find's) man page. "O $DEITY! So much stuff, I
> don't find anything". Nowadays I couldn't do without.
> 
> That's why, when someone pops up here with a thing and I can help
> at all, I try to say, but also to show *where* in the docs. It's
> not nitpickery, but helping people help themselves (and ultimately,
> help others). I see that in Brian's attempts too (Brian: am I
> reading too much in your mails?)

So let's turn to the Installation Manual/Guide. Let's assume that
you read it cover to cover but not everything went in. So then you
go to Chapter 4 to get your media. You're using the internet, so
you go to 4.2/4.2.1 as the most promising headings. Click on
the images link. Doesn't look promising, so go back and click on
Manifest link. Ah, hd-media for use on USB memory sticks, good.
Go back to the images link and click on hd-media.
All I see is files. To use them, I've got to search the Guide for
their names. (Easier with the PDF than the web pages, ironically.)

One hopes, at this point, that you take a look at the next section,
Preparing Files for USB Memory Stick Booting, where it implies
that you can't do what you want to do without already having a
linux system up and running. (Is that true? I don't know.)

Skipping that, 4.3.1 will send you back to 4.1, a section you
didn't look at because it was headed Official Debian GNU/Linux
CD/DVD-ROM Sets, and you didn't want a set of anything.

I think part of the problem of finding one's way around is that
once there were floppies (was it 4 for buzz?), which morphed
into CDs (7 for woody?), and when USB sticks came along, the
extra instructions were just added into the existing structure,
whereas it merits a redesign IMO.

Before posting this, I just saw Steve's post which is most
encouraging. I shall scurry to bug 819664, but fully understand
pressures of time. Don't read all the above as criticism of
Debian, it's not meant to be; more that pointedly pointing at
the Installation Manual link on the home page is not a very
constructive act.

Cheers,
David.

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#178935 — Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

On Thu 16 Mar 2017 at 12:04:14 -0500, David Wright wrote:

> On Thu 16 Mar 2017 at 14:05:17 (+0100), tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 12:52:00PM +0000, GiaThnYgeia wrote:
> > > Brian:
> > > 
> > > > Documentation dispels ignorance. Dispelling ignorance requires the
> > > > co-operation of the user.
> > 
> > :-)
> > 
> > > To recapitulate, the purpose of the list as I understand it is not to
> > > answer practical problems with "read the manual".  It defeats the purpose.
> > 
> > I think you're being a bit unfair here. Brian has surely done a bit
> > beyond saying "read the manual". He has provided leads to the relevant
> > spots in there.
> 
> He showed a much better path to the important web page
> http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/
> He hasn't disagreed with my analysis of why people can get
> stuck on another pathway to the ISO files on that page,
> particularly the people desiring a network installation.

There was never had any reason to disagree with the analysis. The
queries starting this subthread

 > Is it just me, or are the "unofficial" images hard to get to?

have the answers "no" and "yes". However, the routes to the images are
varied and guessing which one a user takes to get there isn't fruitful.
 
> But the Installation Manual comment, particularly the rhetorical
> question, was a cheap shot IMO. Navigating these pages should be
> straightforward. Any indication that the Installation Manual
> is going to help that navigation, or should help, is laughable
> and contradicts the very raison d'être of the web.

Note that the OP knew he might require firmware for his install. The
Manual doesn't remove the need for web page navigation to be improved
but it does give a destination for firmware images, so any port in a
storm etc. I'd use the text version for searching.

Fortunately, the OP was helpfully directed to the correct netinst ISO.
Unfortunately, it is quite possible it does not contain the firmware for
what looks like the Atheros-based chipset he has. Off to backports and
firmware-atheros, then. I'd link to pages on the wiki but documentation
does not appear to be in good standing at the moment and we are told
it is not the purpose of this list to answer practical problems by
by guiding people to it. :)

-- 
Brian.

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#178959 — Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

On Thu 16 Mar 2017 at 20:08:16 (+0000), Brian wrote:
> On Thu 16 Mar 2017 at 12:04:14 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> 
> > On Thu 16 Mar 2017 at 14:05:17 (+0100), tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > > On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 12:52:00PM +0000, GiaThnYgeia wrote:
> > > > Brian:
> > > > 
> > > > > Documentation dispels ignorance. Dispelling ignorance requires the
> > > > > co-operation of the user.
> > > 
> > > :-)
> > > 
> > > > To recapitulate, the purpose of the list as I understand it is not to
> > > > answer practical problems with "read the manual".  It defeats the purpose.
> > > 
> > > I think you're being a bit unfair here. Brian has surely done a bit
> > > beyond saying "read the manual". He has provided leads to the relevant
> > > spots in there.
> > 
> > He showed a much better path to the important web page
> > http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/
> > He hasn't disagreed with my analysis of why people can get
> > stuck on another pathway to the ISO files on that page,
> > particularly the people desiring a network installation.
> 
> There was never had any reason to disagree with the analysis. The
> queries starting this subthread
> 
>  > Is it just me, or are the "unofficial" images hard to get to?
> 
> have the answers "no" and "yes". However, the routes to the images are
> varied and guessing which one a user takes to get there isn't fruitful.

The routes exist and don't need to be guessed. The reason that a
particular group of users follows a route is what has to be guessed.
For every selection made/link clicked etc, the user had an intention.
That intention has to be guessed by the web designer/programmer etc.
Few designers actually experience a stream of tyros sitting down to
use their design, and give them reasons.

Similarly, documentation authors must have in-depth knowledge of
their subject, but also have the ability to read the mind of the
ignorant reader.

> > But the Installation Manual comment, particularly the rhetorical
> > question, was a cheap shot IMO. Navigating these pages should be
> > straightforward. Any indication that the Installation Manual
> > is going to help that navigation, or should help, is laughable
> > and contradicts the very raison d'être of the web.
> 
> Note that the OP knew he might require firmware for his install. The
> Manual doesn't remove the need for web page navigation to be improved
> but it does give a destination for firmware images, so any port in a
> storm etc. I'd use the text version for searching.

Interesting; that might make the headings less influential when
reading it.

> Fortunately, the OP was helpfully directed to the correct netinst ISO.
> Unfortunately, it is quite possible it does not contain the firmware for
> what looks like the Atheros-based chipset he has. Off to backports and
> firmware-atheros, then. I'd link to pages on the wiki but documentation
> does not appear to be in good standing at the moment and we are told
> it is not the purpose of this list to answer practical problems by
> by guiding people to it. :)

Cheers,
David.

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#178974 — Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

On Fri 17 Mar 2017 at 10:46:57 -0500, David Wright wrote:

> On Thu 16 Mar 2017 at 20:08:16 (+0000), Brian wrote:
> > 
> > There was never had any reason to disagree with the analysis. The
> > queries starting this subthread
> > 
> >  > Is it just me, or are the "unofficial" images hard to get to?
> > 
> > have the answers "no" and "yes". However, the routes to the images are
> > varied and guessing which one a user takes to get there isn't fruitful.
> 
> The routes exist and don't need to be guessed. The reason that a
> particular group of users follows a route is what has to be guessed.

Apropos nothing. Columbus knew exactly where he was going and why. He
just didn't get there. The exact route he took didn't exist (or maybe
philosohically it did but hadn't been travelled). But it was planned
using the Google documentation of the time. Perhaps prospective
Debian users could plan their journey into the unknown in the same way.

Point taken, though. Web page design requires the author to put herself
(or try to) in the position of a typical user.

A good place to mention the firmware netinst ISO would be the Debian
front page instead of 4 or more layers down. Depends on how much of a
problem it is seen to be. Don't hold your breath waiting for a change;
there are other factors.

> For every selection made/link clicked etc, the user had an intention.
> That intention has to be guessed by the web designer/programmer etc.
> Few designers actually experience a stream of tyros sitting down to
> use their design, and give them reasons.
> 
> Similarly, documentation authors must have in-depth knowledge of
> their subject, but also have the ability to read the mind of the
> ignorant reader.

A decent technique which can be fruitful with documentation writing is
to read what you have written a year later. If you still understand it
and can easily follow any instructions it could stand the test of time.

-- 
Brian.

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#179681 — Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 07:13:26PM +0000, Brian wrote:
> Apropos nothing. Columbus knew exactly where he was going and why. He
> just didn't get there. The exact route he took didn't exist (or maybe
> philosohically it did but hadn't been travelled). But it was planned
> using the Google documentation of the time. Perhaps prospective
> Debian users could plan their journey into the unknown in the same way.
> 
> Point taken, though. Web page design requires the author to put herself
> (or try to) in the position of a typical user.
> 
> A good place to mention the firmware netinst ISO would be the Debian
> front page instead of 4 or more layers down. Depends on how much of a
> problem it is seen to be. Don't hold your breath waiting for a change;
> there are other factors.

Yeah, for some reason I too had problems navigating to the netinst image and
It was just the plain vanila image without the firmware.

I ended up going to the wrong page about 3 times from different attempts, but
as Steve has already mentioned, there is a bug open about this.

So I agree, Mr Steve Wright is ... correct.

Also downloading the installation manual to find out how to navigate to the
download page sounds like something from Monty Python.

-- 
The media's the most powerful entity on earth. 
They have the power to make the innocent guilty 
and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power.
 -- Malcolm X

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#179683 — Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

On Sun 02 Apr 2017 at 01:56:22 (+1300), cbannister@slingshot.co.nz wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 07:13:26PM +0000, Brian wrote:
> > Apropos nothing. Columbus knew exactly where he was going and why. He
> > just didn't get there. The exact route he took didn't exist (or maybe
> > philosohically it did but hadn't been travelled). But it was planned
> > using the Google documentation of the time. Perhaps prospective
> > Debian users could plan their journey into the unknown in the same way.
> > 
> > Point taken, though. Web page design requires the author to put herself
> > (or try to) in the position of a typical user.
> > 
> > A good place to mention the firmware netinst ISO would be the Debian
> > front page instead of 4 or more layers down. Depends on how much of a
> > problem it is seen to be. Don't hold your breath waiting for a change;
> > there are other factors.
> 
> Yeah, for some reason I too had problems navigating to the netinst image and
> It was just the plain vanila image without the firmware.
> 
> I ended up going to the wrong page about 3 times from different attempts, but
> as Steve has already mentioned, there is a bug open about this.
> 
> So I agree, Mr Steve Wright is ... correct.

Of course I am...always. Buy my book:

Steve Wright's Book of Factoids, HarperCollins Publishers (UK), (2005)
ISBN 0-00-720660-7

> Also downloading the installation manual to find out how to navigate to the
> download page sounds like something from Monty Python.

Cheers,
David.

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#179700 — Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

On Sun 02 Apr 2017 at 01:56:22 +1300, cbannister@slingshot.co.nz wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 07:13:26PM +0000, Brian wrote:
> > Apropos nothing. Columbus knew exactly where he was going and why. He
> > just didn't get there. The exact route he took didn't exist (or maybe
> > philosohically it did but hadn't been travelled). But it was planned
> > using the Google documentation of the time. Perhaps prospective
> > Debian users could plan their journey into the unknown in the same way.
> > 
> > Point taken, though. Web page design requires the author to put herself
> > (or try to) in the position of a typical user.
> > 
> > A good place to mention the firmware netinst ISO would be the Debian
> > front page instead of 4 or more layers down. Depends on how much of a
> > problem it is seen to be. Don't hold your breath waiting for a change;
> > there are other factors.
> 
> Yeah, for some reason I too had problems navigating to the netinst image and
> It was just the plain vanila image without the firmware.

There is a prominent link on the front page to the netinst ISO. If this
is unseeable or unfindable you will have problems finding the unofficial
images.

> I ended up going to the wrong page about 3 times from different attempts, but
> as Steve has already mentioned, there is a bug open about this.

You are referring to #819664? Perhaps you would explain how this helps
with locating unofficial images? It might help for finding official ones
(which for "some reason" you were unable to spot on www.debian.org) and
that is good.

> So I agree, Mr Steve Wright is ... correct.
> 
> Also downloading the installation manual to find out how to navigate to the
> download page sounds like something from Monty Python.

That is a misrepresention of the issue. No one is claiming that the
Manual is the way to find official images.

-- 
Brian.

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#178963 — Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

On Thursday 16 March 2017 20:08:16 Brian wrote:
> and we are told
> it is not the purpose of this list to answer practical problems by
> by guiding people to it. :)

Oh, come Brian.  We are also told that it is not the purpose of Debian to 
pander to freaks and Geeks.  We are told that the moon is made of green 
cheese and the earth is flat.  Oh, and young ladies don't do that.  We are 
not going to worry about what we are told, are we?

Lisi

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#178979 — Re: Finding firmware (and SHA sums etc), was Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

On Fri 17 Mar 2017 at 17:02:04 +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Thursday 16 March 2017 20:08:16 Brian wrote:
> > and we are told
> > it is not the purpose of this list to answer practical problems by
> > by guiding people to it. :)
> 
> Oh, come Brian.  We are also told that it is not the purpose of Debian to 
> pander to freaks and Geeks.  We are told that the moon is made of green 
> cheese and the earth is flat.  Oh, and young ladies don't do that.  We are 
> not going to worry about what we are told, are we?

When it comes to the desirability of reading documentation on such a
basic and important procedure as installing Debian I'm inclined not to
be ambivalant. That doesn't mean I think every single word of it needs
to be understood but preparation underpins an install which is
successful. Otherwise, why put so much effort into writing the Manual?

You cut some of the paragraph I wrote. Its main intended purpose was to
point the OP to a solution to his issue, If he is still reading the
thread he started he might say whether it does. It could help others.

-- 
Brian.

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#178890

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Do you have access to ethernet port from your machine?

If so, Debian installer *should* (in most cases) work with that until 
you install what you need to get WiFi working. In fact, that is how most 
of my recent Debian installs went...


On 03/16/2017 01:45, Dean Valentine wrote:
> I don't have debian installed on my computer yet, nor can I access the 
> internet with it (because my wifi is down) so i don't understand how I 
> would install the non-free package?
>
> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 2:01 AM, Tim Ye <tim.ye0@aliyun.com 
> <mailto:tim.ye0@aliyun.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hi,
>
>     On 2017-03-15 07:57+0200, Johann Spies wrote:
>     > On 15 March 2017 at 06:57, Dean Valentine
>     <deanvalentine@lhsla.org <mailto:deanvalentine@lhsla.org>> wrote:
>     >
>     > > I have installed three operating systems on this computer:
>     Linux Mint,
>     > > Ubuntu, and Arch Linux. None of them had any problems
>     detecting and using
>     > > my "Network Manager: Qualcomm Atheros 003e", and it shows up
>     on lspci, but
>     > > when the Debian graphic installer attempts to do this, it
>     fails and tells
>     > > me "No Ethernet Card" detected. I've attempted to use the ISO
>     you've
>     > > provided for me with propryetary firmware bundled into it here:
>     > > https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.7.1/amd64/iso-cd/
>     <https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.7.1/amd64/iso-cd/>, but that
>     > > couldn't find it either. It's unusual because I see (or at
>     least I think I
>     > > see) my drivers listed, and when i select them manually
>     > >
>     > > What's going on? How do I get this to work? Obviously there
>     are linux
>     > > drivers out there for Debian to use with my machine, they're
>     just not in
>     > > Debian's isos for some reason.
>     > >
>     > > Thank you for your time. I love your work.
>     > >
>     >
>     > There is a package "firmware-atheros" .
>
>     You may want to add 'non-free' in your 'source.list' file.  My
>     '/etc/apt/sources.list' looks like this:
>
>         deb http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie main non-free
>         deb-src http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie main non-free
>
>         deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main non-free
>         deb-src http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main non-free
>
>         # jessie-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
>         deb http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie-updates main non-free
>         deb-src http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie-updates main
>     non-free
>
>     Reference:
>
>     http://serverfault.com/questions/240920/how-do-i-enable-non-free-packages-on-debian
>     <http://serverfault.com/questions/240920/how-do-i-enable-non-free-packages-on-debian>
>
>     >
>     > If I were you i would install it.  Maybe that will solve your
>     problem.
>     >
>     > Regards
>     > Johann
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > --
>     > Because experiencing your loyal love is better than life itself,
>     > my lips will praise you.  (Psalm 63:3)
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     - Tim
>
>

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#178892

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Not everyone has access to wired networks. I don't, to name just one 
example of a person who does not. My last Debian install, I had to use 
USB networking over my mobile phone to download non-free wifi chipset 
firmware.


On 03/15/2017 11:13 PM, Davor Balder wrote:
>
> Do you have access to ethernet port from your machine?
>
> If so, Debian installer *should* (in most cases) work with that until 
> you install what you need to get WiFi working. In fact, that is how 
> most of my recent Debian installs went...
>
>
> On 03/16/2017 01:45, Dean Valentine wrote:
>> I don't have debian installed on my computer yet, nor can I access 
>> the internet with it (because my wifi is down) so i don't understand 
>> how I would install the non-free package?
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 2:01 AM, Tim Ye <tim.ye0@aliyun.com 
>> <mailto:tim.ye0@aliyun.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hi,
>>
>>     On 2017-03-15 07:57+0200, Johann Spies wrote:
>>     > On 15 March 2017 at 06:57, Dean Valentine
>>     <deanvalentine@lhsla.org <mailto:deanvalentine@lhsla.org>> wrote:
>>     >
>>     > > I have installed three operating systems on this computer:
>>     Linux Mint,
>>     > > Ubuntu, and Arch Linux. None of them had any problems
>>     detecting and using
>>     > > my "Network Manager: Qualcomm Atheros 003e", and it shows up
>>     on lspci, but
>>     > > when the Debian graphic installer attempts to do this, it
>>     fails and tells
>>     > > me "No Ethernet Card" detected. I've attempted to use the ISO
>>     you've
>>     > > provided for me with propryetary firmware bundled into it here:
>>     > > https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.7.1/amd64/iso-cd/
>>     <https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.7.1/amd64/iso-cd/>, but that
>>     > > couldn't find it either. It's unusual because I see (or at
>>     least I think I
>>     > > see) my drivers listed, and when i select them manually
>>     > >
>>     > > What's going on? How do I get this to work? Obviously there
>>     are linux
>>     > > drivers out there for Debian to use with my machine, they're
>>     just not in
>>     > > Debian's isos for some reason.
>>     > >
>>     > > Thank you for your time. I love your work.
>>     > >
>>     >
>>     > There is a package "firmware-atheros" .
>>
>>     You may want to add 'non-free' in your 'source.list' file.  My
>>     '/etc/apt/sources.list' looks like this:
>>
>>         deb http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie main non-free
>>         deb-src http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie main non-free
>>
>>         deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main non-free
>>         deb-src http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main non-free
>>
>>         # jessie-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
>>         deb http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie-updates main non-free
>>         deb-src http://mirrors.163.com/debian/ jessie-updates main
>>     non-free
>>
>>     Reference:
>>
>>     http://serverfault.com/questions/240920/how-do-i-enable-non-free-packages-on-debian
>>     <http://serverfault.com/questions/240920/how-do-i-enable-non-free-packages-on-debian>
>>
>>     >
>>     > If I were you i would install it.  Maybe that will solve your
>>     problem.
>>     >
>>     > Regards
>>     > Johann
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > --
>>     > Because experiencing your loyal love is better than life itself,
>>     > my lips will praise you.  (Psalm 63:3)
>>
>>     Thanks,
>>
>>     - Tim
>>
>>
>

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#178893

On Wed 15 Mar 2017 at 23:21:12 (-0400), Carl Fink wrote:
> Not everyone has access to wired networks. I don't, to name just one
> example of a person who does not. My last Debian install, I had to
> use USB networking over my mobile phone to download non-free wifi
> chipset firmware.

That's neat. What do I need to know to do that?
(My problem is that I have to go through the
ndiswrapper rigmarole before I can use my
wifi dongle.)

Cheers,
David.

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#178915

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:33:22PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> On Wed 15 Mar 2017 at 23:21:12 (-0400), Carl Fink wrote:
> > Not everyone has access to wired networks. I don't, to name just one
> > example of a person who does not. My last Debian install, I had to
> > use USB networking over my mobile phone to download non-free wifi
> > chipset firmware.
> 
> That's neat. What do I need to know to do that?
> (My problem is that I have to go through the
> ndiswrapper rigmarole before I can use my
> wifi dongle.)

I can only speak to what I did.

1)Plug phone into computer I was installing on using USB cable. 
2)Turn on "USB Tethering" in the Android settings.
3)Wait about 10 seconds for DHCP negotation to complete.

Seriously, it was that seamless. My phone was already connected to the local
802.11 network, so I wasn't even running up mobile charges. Latest Testing
as of a few months ago.

With USB3 it would even be quite fast (by my standards).
-- 
Carl Fink                           nitpicking@nitpicking.com 

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com.  Reviews!  Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!

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#178855

On 03/14/2017 09:57 PM, Dean Valentine wrote:
> I have installed three operating systems on this computer: Linux Mint,
> Ubuntu, and Arch Linux. None of them had any problems detecting and using
> my "Network Manager: Qualcomm Atheros 003e", and it shows up on lspci, but
> when the Debian graphic installer attempts to do this, it fails and tells
> me "No Ethernet Card" detected. I've attempted to use the ISO you've
> provided for me with propryetary firmware bundled into it here:
> https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.7.1/amd64/iso-cd/, but that couldn't
> find it either. It's unusual because I see (or at least I think I see) my
> drivers listed, and when i select them manually
>
> What's going on? How do I get this to work? Obviously there are linux
> drivers out there for Debian to use with my machine, they're just not in
> Debian's isos for some reason.
>
> Thank you for your time. I love your work.

Hi,

You didn't read that page.  Here's the link you want: 
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/ 
Good luck.
-- 
Jimmy Johnson

Debian Stretch - KDE Plasma 5.8.4 - AMD64 - EXT4 at sda6
Registered Linux User #380263

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#179696

On 04/01/2017 06:08 AM, cbannister@slingshot.co.nz wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 06:47:06AM -0700, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
>> On 03/14/2017 09:57 PM, Dean Valentine wrote:
>>> I have installed three operating systems on this computer: Linux Mint,
>>> Ubuntu, and Arch Linux. None of them had any problems detecting and using
>>> my "Network Manager: Qualcomm Atheros 003e", and it shows up on lspci, but
>>> when the Debian graphic installer attempts to do this, it fails and tells
>>> me "No Ethernet Card" detected. I've attempted to use the ISO you've
>>> provided for me with propryetary firmware bundled into it here:
>>> https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.7.1/amd64/iso-cd/, but that couldn't
>>> find it either. It's unusual because I see (or at least I think I see) my
>>> drivers listed, and when i select them manually
>>>
>>> What's going on? How do I get this to work? Obviously there are linux
>>> drivers out there for Debian to use with my machine, they're just not in
>>> Debian's isos for some reason.
>>>
>>> Thank you for your time. I love your work.
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> You didn't read that page.

> I wonder what page that would be.

The above link.

> Here's the link you want:
>> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/

> I was wondering what a field engineer is, is it a fancy term for a farmer?

I'm on the list, reply to the list.
Ask a proper question and get a proper answer.
Google is your friend.
Stupid Is As Stupid Does - Forrest Gump.
-- 
Jimmy Johnson

Debian Stretch - Plasma 5.8.6 - EXT4 at sda11
Registered Linux User #380263

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#179697 — Re: Linux Mint, Ubuntu, Arch Linux recognize my Acer Aspire S wifi, debian does not

On Saturday 01 April 2017 19:55:22 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> On 04/01/2017 06:08 AM, cbannister@slingshot.co.nz wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 06:47:06AM -0700, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> >> On 03/14/2017 09:57 PM, Dean Valentine wrote:
> >>> I have installed three operating systems on this computer: Linux Mint,
> >>> Ubuntu, and Arch Linux. None of them had any problems detecting and
> >>> using my "Network Manager: Qualcomm Atheros 003e", and it shows up on
> >>> lspci, but when the Debian graphic installer attempts to do this, it
> >>> fails and tells me "No Ethernet Card" detected. I've attempted to use
> >>> the ISO you've provided for me with propryetary firmware bundled into
> >>> it here: https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.7.1/amd64/iso-cd/, but
> >>> that couldn't find it either. It's unusual because I see (or at least I
> >>> think I see) my drivers listed, and when i select them manually
> >>>
> >>> What's going on? How do I get this to work? Obviously there are linux
> >>> drivers out there for Debian to use with my machine, they're just not
> >>> in Debian's isos for some reason.
> >>>
> >>> Thank you for your time. I love your work.
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> You didn't read that page.
> >
> > I wonder what page that would be.
>
> The above link.
>
> > Here's the link you want:
> >> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firm
> >>ware/
> >
> > I was wondering what a field engineer is, is it a fancy term for a
> > farmer?
>
> I'm on the list, reply to the list.
> Ask a proper question and get a proper answer.
> Google is your friend.

Or try wikipedia,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_engineer
(I looked up "field engineer")

Lisi

> Stupid Is As Stupid Does - Forrest Gump.

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