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Why I can not install software on debian easily?

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  Why I can not install software on debian easily?  john cusey <john_cusey@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-19 03:20 +0100
    Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2016-12-19 03:30 +0100
    Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? emetib <chadbrabec@gmail.com> - 2016-12-19 04:40 +0100
    Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2016-12-19 05:00 +0100
    Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2016-12-19 06:20 +0100
    Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2016-12-19 08:40 +0100
    Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? Nemeth Gyorgy <friczy@freemail.hu> - 2016-12-19 10:50 +0100
      Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2016-12-20 00:30 +0100
        Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2016-12-20 10:00 +0100
          Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2016-12-20 11:30 +0100
            Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-12-20 21:30 +0100
        Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-12-20 11:30 +0100
        Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2016-12-20 13:30 +0100
          Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-12-20 17:30 +0100
            Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-12-20 18:10 +0100
            Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2016-12-20 23:00 +0100
          Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2016-12-20 17:50 +0100
            Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2016-12-20 18:20 +0100
              Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2016-12-20 18:40 +0100
              Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2016-12-20 18:40 +0100
              Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? emetib <chadbrabec@gmail.com> - 2016-12-20 19:10 +0100
              Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-12-20 21:50 +0100
          Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2016-12-20 20:30 +0100
          Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-12-20 21:20 +0100
    Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily? Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2016-12-19 11:40 +0100
    Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily?  Floris <jkfloris@dds.nl> - 2016-12-19 14:40 +0100

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#175811 — Why I can not install software on debian easily?

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Why I can not download a .deb file, click it and it installs?


I tried to install opera on Debian.


I have computer science degree and I still trying to do this.


I know nobody will read this email.


Time to go back to Windows.


John

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#175812

john cusey <john_cusey@hotmail.com> writes:

> Why I can not download a .deb file, click it and it installs?

What kind of answer are you looking for?

One correct answer would be: Because installing software is a
potentially very disruptive act on a computer, so it should be done
through a formal system of packages.

Installing a package, for me, is a matter of:

* Open the package manager as a privileged user. Because I never want to
  be able to accidentally install software, my normal user account has
  no access to do this.

* Browse the menu of available packages.

* Click it, and it installs.

> I tried to install opera on Debian.

So, another correct answer is: Debian is an operating system of free
software, and Opera is instead proprietary, so necessarily outside
Debian. Third-party packages may not be so smoothly integrated into the
package system.

Non-free software may be available from people who maintain it for use
in Debian, but there is no guarantee it is available in the package
manager.

> I have computer science degree and I still trying to do this.

You imply that the problem is primarily one of technical difficulty. Not
so: it is much more a problem of competing interests (those who want to
restrict software freedom do not want their software on the terms Debian
is available) and social factors (ensuring people cannot shoot
themselves in the foot with a dangerously insecure tool will necessarily
entail some barriers to one-click operation).

> I know nobody will read this email.

You know better now.

-- 
 \        “Good morning, Pooh Bear”, said Eeyore gloomily. “If it is a |
  `\   good morning”, he said. “Which I doubt”, said he. —A. A. Milne, |
_o__)                                                _Winnie-the-Pooh_ |
Ben Finney

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#175813

On Sunday, December 18, 2016 at 8:20:04 PM UTC-6, john cusey wrote:
> Why I can not download a .deb file, click it and it installs?
> 
linux treats executable files/programs differently than windows.  thus more secure.

> I have computer science degree and I still trying to do this.
> 
a piece of paper doesn't make you smart.

> Time to go back to Windows.
> John

good.

welcome to the world of not hand holding to be able to make things actually work.

em

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#175814

john cusey writes:
> Why I can not download a .deb file, click it and it installs?

> I tried to install opera on Debian.

I suggest that you ask for help here: http://www.opera.com/help
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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#175815

john cusey <john_cusey@hotmail.com> writes:

> Why I can not download a .deb file, click it and it installs?
>
> I tried to install opera on Debian. 

Did you look at https://wiki.debian.org/Opera ?

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#175816

john cusey wrote:

> Why I can not download a .deb file, click it and it installs?
> 
> 
> I tried to install opera on Debian.
> 
> 
> I have computer science degree and I still trying to do this.
> 

LoL

> 
> I know nobody will read this email.
> 
LoL^2
> 
> Time to go back to Windows.
> 

LoL^3

What I find most disturbing nowdays is that people forget to read and
learn/study. They expect to accomplish each task in the time (or while)
they type a message in twitter. Unfortunately this is pushed at
universities as well.
Even in windows you are not allowed to install software like that. If you
are smart windows user, you would never use the admin account for your
working account. 
With your attitude you qualify for management (irony)

regards

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#175820

2016-12-19 02:54 keltezéssel, john cusey írta:
>
> Time to go back to Windows.
>
Just do it. It will be better for everyone.

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#175834

On 19/12/16 22:45, Nemeth Gyorgy wrote:
> 2016-12-19 02:54 keltezéssel, john cusey írta:
>> Time to go back to Windows.
> Just do it. It will be better for everyone.

Oh, have a heart.  :-)

Ubuntu is a great choice for unsophisticated users, ranging from 
computer scientists to grandmothers [1], who need to sacrifice software 
freedom to get ease of use and integration with proprietary software. 
For example, Ubuntu Software Center should give the questioner the 
functionality they seek:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OperaBrowser

"The best and easiest way to install Opera is by just downloading the 
deb-package from Opera's website. When you install the package, it will 
add their repository, automatically configured for updates. When you 
have downloaded the file, you can install it by double clicking on the 
file to open Ubuntu software center."

Please consider recommending allied Linux distributions such as Ubuntu 
before proprietary operating systems.

[1] Actual case. Thinks she is using Windows because she has 
LibreOffice. Certainly not representative of all grandmothers.

Kind regards,

-- 
Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz>
Director
Transient Software Limited <http://transient.nz/>
New Zealand

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#175837

On 2016-12-19, Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> wrote:
> On 19/12/16 22:45, Nemeth Gyorgy wrote:
>> 2016-12-19 02:54 keltezéssel, john cusey írta:
>>> Time to go back to Windows.
>> Just do it. It will be better for everyone.
>
> Oh, have a heart.  :-)

The guy's a troll, for Christ's sake, and Ubuntu, as far as I know, has
the exact same package management system as Debian and wouldn't solve
OTP's problem, which is between his ears, where it belongs.

-- 
“It is enough that the arrows fit exactly in the wounds that they have made.”
Franz Kafka

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#175839

On 12/20/16, Curt <curty@free.fr> wrote:
> On 2016-12-19, Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> wrote:
>> On 19/12/16 22:45, Nemeth Gyorgy wrote:
>>> 2016-12-19 02:54 keltezéssel, john cusey írta:
>>>> Time to go back to Windows.
>>> Just do it. It will be better for everyone.
>>
>> Oh, have a heart.  :-)
>
> The guy's a troll, for Christ's sake, and Ubuntu, as far as I know, has
> the exact same package management system as Debian and wouldn't solve
> OTP's problem, which is between his ears, where it belongs.


It feels.... similarly different to what I went on about for a seconds
in the last week or so. It is my highly unhumble opinion that download
numbers have apparently taken a hit "somewhere else" and so troops
have hit the ground to re-recruit......

:)

Cindy :)

-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with plastic sporks *

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#175858

On Tue 20 Dec 2016 at 05:23:05 -0500, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:

> On 12/20/16, Curt <curty@free.fr> wrote:
> > On 2016-12-19, Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> wrote:
> >> On 19/12/16 22:45, Nemeth Gyorgy wrote:
> >>> 2016-12-19 02:54 keltezéssel, john cusey írta:
> >>>> Time to go back to Windows.
> >>> Just do it. It will be better for everyone.
> >>
> >> Oh, have a heart.  :-)
> >
> > The guy's a troll, for Christ's sake, and Ubuntu, as far as I know, has
> > the exact same package management system as Debian and wouldn't solve
> > OTP's problem, which is between his ears, where it belongs.
> 
> 
> It feels.... similarly different to what I went on about for a seconds
> in the last week or so. It is my highly unhumble opinion that download
> numbers have apparently taken a hit "somewhere else" and so troops
> have hit the ground to re-recruit......
> 
> :)

Thinking about this. Is the military reference important?

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#175838

On Monday 19 December 2016 23:28:24 Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
> [1] Actual case. Thinks she is using Windows because she has
> LibreOffice. Certainly not representative of all grandmothers.

Glad you acknowledge that. ;-)  Some of us dislike Ubuntu. ;-)

Lisi

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#175840

On 12/19/2016 5:28 PM, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
>
> [1] Actual case. Thinks she is using Windows because she has
> LibreOffice. Certainly not representative of all grandmothers.
>

I suspect the User Experience is as important as Application 
Software.
Do you know which desktop is being used?

I've been recommending Debian to an elderly friend who has 
expressed annoyance with current version(s) of Windows. He has 
sent me an old laptop with an implied "put up or shut up". I want 
to put together a demo system that will be attractive to him. I 
currently planning on Mate as the desktop. We live 1000 miles 
apart so can't just drive over to show him what I use. Comments? TIA

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#175846

On Tuesday 20 December 2016 12:25:52 Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 12/19/2016 5:28 PM, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
> > [1] Actual case. Thinks she is using Windows because she has
> > LibreOffice. Certainly not representative of all grandmothers.
>
> I suspect the User Experience is as important as Application
> Software.
> Do you know which desktop is being used?
>
> I've been recommending Debian to an elderly friend who has
> expressed annoyance with current version(s) of Windows. He has
> sent me an old laptop with an implied "put up or shut up". I want
> to put together a demo system that will be attractive to him. I
> currently planning on Mate as the desktop. We live 1000 miles
> apart so can't just drive over to show him what I use. Comments? TIA

http://www.portsmouth.lug.org.uk/talks/201211.html
http://www.portsmouth.lug.org.uk/talks/201211.pdf

Initially it was called Debian Adapted for Dad.  The name was changed as it 
got more publicity, since it is the desktop layer that Adam's father actually 
sees.

It was originally done on KDE 3, because it is so configurable.  And that is 
why I use TDE, KDE 3's successor.

Lisi

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#175849

On Tuesday 20 December 2016 16:25:33 Lisi Reisz wrote:
> It was originally done on KDE 3, because it is so configurable.  And that
> is why I use TDE, KDE 3's successor.

Because it is very configurable, not because Adam used it for his Dad.

Lisi

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#175860

On 12/20/2016 10:25 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Tuesday 20 December 2016 12:25:52 Richard Owlett wrote:
>> On 12/19/2016 5:28 PM, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
>>> [1] Actual case. Thinks she is using Windows because she has
>>> LibreOffice. Certainly not representative of all grandmothers.
>>
>> I suspect the User Experience is as important as Application
>> Software.
>> Do you know which desktop is being used?
>>
>> I've been recommending Debian to an elderly friend who has
>> expressed annoyance with current version(s) of Windows. He has
>> sent me an old laptop with an implied "put up or shut up". I want
>> to put together a demo system that will be attractive to him. I
>> currently planning on Mate as the desktop. We live 1000 miles
>> apart so can't just drive over to show him what I use. Comments? TIA
>
> http://www.portsmouth.lug.org.uk/talks/201211.html
> http://www.portsmouth.lug.org.uk/talks/201211.pdf

The later is a fascinating read.
And not only because he agrees with me!

Should be required reading for ALL introductory Comp Sci 
curricula ! !! !!!!!


>
> Initially it was called Debian Adapted for Dad.  The name was changed as it
> got more publicity, since it is the desktop layer that Adam's father actually
> sees.
>
> It was originally done on KDE 3, because it is so configurable.  And that is
> why I use TDE, KDE 3's successor.
>
> Lisi
>
>

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#175848

On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 06:25:52 -0600
Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:

> On 12/19/2016 5:28 PM, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
> >
> > [1] Actual case. Thinks she is using Windows because she has
> > LibreOffice. Certainly not representative of all grandmothers.
> >  
> 
> I suspect the User Experience is as important as Application 
> Software.
> Do you know which desktop is being used?
> 
> I've been recommending Debian to an elderly friend who has 
> expressed annoyance with current version(s) of Windows. He has 
> sent me an old laptop with an implied "put up or shut up". I want 
> to put together a demo system that will be attractive to him. I 
> currently planning on Mate as the desktop. We live 1000 miles 
> apart so can't just drive over to show him what I use. Comments? TIA
> 
> 

A good start would be finding the reasons for the current annoyance with
Windows, you wouldn't want to replicate them in an attempt to keep his
environment familiar.

I went from Gnome2 to LXDE without too much trauma, at the time of
Gnome3's arrival i.e. pre-Mate. When LXDE started giving trouble, which
I now know was due to systemd arriving, I moved to Xfce4 and have been
happy with it.

Note that Windows 8 can be made somewhat civilised, as presumably can
10. He doesn't really have to live with daft tiles and fixed full-screen
windows if he doesn't want to. My Win8.1 laptop looks and behaves much
like Win7 almost all of the time.

-- 
Joe

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#175850

On 12/20/2016 10:46 AM, Joe wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 06:25:52 -0600
> Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
>
>> On 12/19/2016 5:28 PM, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
>>>
>>> [1] Actual case. Thinks she is using Windows because she has
>>> LibreOffice. Certainly not representative of all grandmothers.
>>>
>>
>> I suspect the User Experience is as important as Application
>> Software.
>> Do you know which desktop is being used?
>>
>> I've been recommending Debian to an elderly friend who has
>> expressed annoyance with current version(s) of Windows. He has
>> sent me an old laptop with an implied "put up or shut up". I want
>> to put together a demo system that will be attractive to him. I
>> currently planning on Mate as the desktop. We live 1000 miles
>> apart so can't just drive over to show him what I use. Comments? TIA
>>
>>
>
> A good start would be finding the reasons for the current annoyance with
> Windows, you wouldn't want to replicate them in an attempt to keep his
> environment familiar.

I've known him and his wife for >40 years. The rumbles I've heard 
have been that Microsoft changes things for the sake of changing 
things -- cf the change in default GUI from Gnome2 to Gnome3 [the 
reason I use Mate]. I'm aiming for a DE that someone who 
comfortably went from Win 3.x thru WinXP would feel at home with. 
I've not personally used anything since WinXP.

>
> I went from Gnome2 to LXDE without too much trauma, at the time of
> Gnome3's arrival i.e. pre-Mate. When LXDE started giving trouble, which
> I now know was due to systemd arriving, I moved to Xfce4 and have been
> happy with it.
>
> Note that Windows 8 can be made somewhat civilized, as presumably can
> 10. He doesn't really have to live with daft tiles and fixed full-screen
> windows if he doesn't want to. My Win8.1 laptop looks and behaves much
> like Win7 almost all of the time.
>

I don't know if the laptop in question can support it, but I'll 
investigate having Grub (LILO?) menu present a choice of 
desktops. It will take some thought to have them present the same 
application software and access the same user data files. [I.E. 
read email with SeaMonkey under Mate one day and under Xfce4 the 
next without mucking up content/context]

[Previous paragraph is me thinking out loud ;]

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#175851

On 12/20/2016 12:16 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 12/20/2016 10:46 AM, Joe wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 06:25:52 -0600
>> Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/19/2016 5:28 PM, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [1] Actual case. Thinks she is using Windows because she has
>>>> LibreOffice. Certainly not representative of all grandmothers.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I suspect the User Experience is as important as Application
>>> Software.
>>> Do you know which desktop is being used?
>>>
>>> I've been recommending Debian to an elderly friend who has
>>> expressed annoyance with current version(s) of Windows. He has
>>> sent me an old laptop with an implied "put up or shut up". I want
>>> to put together a demo system that will be attractive to him. I
>>> currently planning on Mate as the desktop. We live 1000 miles
>>> apart so can't just drive over to show him what I use. Comments? TIA
>>>
>>>
>>
>> A good start would be finding the reasons for the current annoyance with
>> Windows, you wouldn't want to replicate them in an attempt to keep his
>> environment familiar.
>
> I've known him and his wife for >40 years. The rumbles I've heard have
> been that Microsoft changes things for the sake of changing things -- cf
> the change in default GUI from Gnome2 to Gnome3 [the reason I use Mate].
> I'm aiming for a DE that someone who comfortably went from Win 3.x thru
> WinXP would feel at home with. I've not personally used anything since
> WinXP.
>
>>
>> I went from Gnome2 to LXDE without too much trauma, at the time of
>> Gnome3's arrival i.e. pre-Mate. When LXDE started giving trouble, which
>> I now know was due to systemd arriving, I moved to Xfce4 and have been
>> happy with it.
>>
>> Note that Windows 8 can be made somewhat civilized, as presumably can
>> 10. He doesn't really have to live with daft tiles and fixed full-screen
>> windows if he doesn't want to. My Win8.1 laptop looks and behaves much
>> like Win7 almost all of the time.
>>
>
> I don't know if the laptop in question can support it, but I'll
> investigate having Grub (LILO?) menu present a choice of desktops. It
> will take some thought to have them present the same application
> software and access the same user data files. [I.E. read email with
> SeaMonkey under Mate one day and under Xfce4 the next without mucking up
> content/context]
>
> [Previous paragraph is me thinking out loud ;]

I think you'll find your friend happy with XFCE, as it is closest to the 
Win95 experience. (IMHO) Ric


-- 
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html

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#175852

On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 11:16:28 -0600
Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:

> On 12/20/2016 10:46 AM, Joe wrote:
> > On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 06:25:52 -0600
> > Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
> >  
> >> On 12/19/2016 5:28 PM, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:  
> >>>
> >>> [1] Actual case. Thinks she is using Windows because she has
> >>> LibreOffice. Certainly not representative of all grandmothers.
> >>>  
> >>
> >> I suspect the User Experience is as important as Application
> >> Software.
> >> Do you know which desktop is being used?
> >>
> >> I've been recommending Debian to an elderly friend who has
> >> expressed annoyance with current version(s) of Windows. He has
> >> sent me an old laptop with an implied "put up or shut up". I want
> >> to put together a demo system that will be attractive to him. I
> >> currently planning on Mate as the desktop. We live 1000 miles
> >> apart so can't just drive over to show him what I use. Comments?
> >> TIA
> >>
> >>  
> >
> > A good start would be finding the reasons for the current annoyance
> > with Windows, you wouldn't want to replicate them in an attempt to
> > keep his environment familiar.  
> 
> I've known him and his wife for >40 years. The rumbles I've heard 
> have been that Microsoft changes things for the sake of changing 
> things -- cf the change in default GUI from Gnome2 to Gnome3 [the 
> reason I use Mate]. I'm aiming for a DE that someone who 
> comfortably went from Win 3.x thru WinXP would feel at home with. 
> I've not personally used anything since WinXP.

Win7 is not far removed from XP, and productive work on a
non-touch-screen Win8 is done with it in 'desktop' mode, i.e. looking
like Win7. Pretty much any Linux DE can look and feel reasonably like
XP.
> 
> >
> > I went from Gnome2 to LXDE without too much trauma, at the time of
> > Gnome3's arrival i.e. pre-Mate. When LXDE started giving trouble,
> > which I now know was due to systemd arriving, I moved to Xfce4 and
> > have been happy with it.
> >
> > Note that Windows 8 can be made somewhat civilized, as presumably
> > can 10. He doesn't really have to live with daft tiles and fixed
> > full-screen windows if he doesn't want to. My Win8.1 laptop looks
> > and behaves much like Win7 almost all of the time.
> >  
> 
> I don't know if the laptop in question can support it, but I'll 
> investigate having Grub (LILO?) menu present a choice of 
> desktops. It will take some thought to have them present the same 
> application software and access the same user data files. [I.E. 
> read email with SeaMonkey under Mate one day and under Xfce4 the 
> next without mucking up content/context]
> 
> [Previous paragraph is me thinking out loud ;]
> 
> 
As far as I know, it's no big deal. The Display Manager will select
between DEs (and pure window managers if any are installed). I believe
they behave more or less as 'skins', i.e. the underlying applications
and data behave the same if they are capable of operating in the
current session, but may look different. What will change is the
desktop 'furniture', such as panels. What is these days a somewhat
standard menu structure should be accessible from anything with a
right-click over the desktop.

Experiment. The more capable Display Managers are gdm3 and kdm, there
are lighter weight ones available such as lightdm and xdm, which tend
to have fewer features. The capable ones can select a different DE/WM
for one session only, so if you get stuck without any panels or menus
because of a configuration error, rebooting will get you back to the
usual session.

-- 
Joe

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