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Document and LBC (Was: Debian *not very good)

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  Document and LBC (Was: Debian *not very good) Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2016-11-25 20:10 +0100
    Re: Document and LBC (Was: Debian *not very good) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2016-11-28 14:50 +0100
      Re: Document and LBC (Was: Debian *not very good) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2016-11-28 15:20 +0100
      Re: Document and LBC (Was: Debian *not very good) Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2016-11-28 16:20 +0100
        Re: Document and LBC (Was: Debian *not very good) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2016-11-28 16:40 +0100
          Re: Document and LBC (Was: Debian *not very good) Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2016-11-28 16:40 +0100
            Re: Document and LBC (Was: Debian *not very good) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2016-11-28 16:50 +0100
            Re: Document and LBC (Was: Debian *not very good) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2016-11-28 17:30 +0100
      Document and LBC (Was: Debian *not very good) Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2016-12-03 19:00 +0100
        Re: Document and LBC (Was: Debian *not very good) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2016-12-05 15:00 +0100
          Document and LBC (Was: Debian *not very good) Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2016-12-06 00:20 +0100

#175062 — Document and LBC (Was: Debian *not very good)

On 11/25/16, oldbluebear <nvis@eircom.net> wrote:
>
> This time I  find the current Debian as part of the install process has
> created a "Document" where it wants to save any .doc file.  I do not
> want this, I want them on my Desktop from which I move them manually.
> How do I get rid of this action  which I do not want, As I can see no
> simple way to revert to saving documents on my Desktop which is what I
> want; rather what some spotty faced kid has decided i should have.

Please forgive me if I'm not understanding correctly, but are you
talking about the Document directory under our users (e.g.
/home/user-name/ or ~/). If yes, perhaps you can find an option in
your text editing (or other) software to make your Desktop your
default save-to location for that program?


> My desktop is green (eye safe) no pictures to gobble up CPU  everything
> is stripped down so the AMD multi-core CPU is there to  run my software
> not decorate the screen.
>
> Why can yo not provide that, and then for those who choose it let them
> add all the gizmo stuff that eats CPU, rather than wishing that stuff on
> every installation.

Again please forgive if I'm misunderstanding, but if this is something
related to user accessibility, there is a list dedicated specifically
to that topic. It's what they do:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/


> What is LBC ? I am getting screens of stuff that no longer makes sense.

Never heard of it so I tried a quick search of the Net. Landed the
potential phrase, "Linux Binary Compatibility". Does anyone know if
that sounds anywhere near the right ballpark for that acronym?

Cindy :)

-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

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#175157

On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 02:02:37PM -0500, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
> On 11/25/16, oldbluebear <nvis@eircom.net> wrote:
> > What is LBC ? I am getting screens of stuff that no longer makes sense.
> 
> Never heard of it so I tried a quick search of the Net. Landed the
> potential phrase, "Linux Binary Compatibility". Does anyone know if
> that sounds anywhere near the right ballpark for that acronym?

If you saw his original post, "LBC" is a typo that he made after citing
a boot message that contained "LSB".

"LSB" stands for Linux Standard Base:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Standard_Base

I don't know what LSB has to do with Debian's boot process waiting for
the network interfaces to be configured before proceeding. but that's
the boot message he cited originally, before starting his rant.

A Linux system in 2016 without a working network is basically a brick,
so there should be no shock when the boot process patiently waits for
your network to be configured before bringing up all of the network
services.

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#175160

On 11/28/2016 7:41 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote:
>
> A Linux system in 2016 without a working network is basically a brick,
> so there should be no shock when the boot process patiently waits for
> your network to be configured before bringing up all of the network
> services.

You *ERR* <GRIN>
Neither of the Linux machines in front of me have any networking 
connected.
One likely never will.
I was working on a project some time ago where there was active 
consideration of how to *DEFEAT* networking on some donated machines.

Not everybody has access to wide-band internet access - which is 
what is assumed for any mention of "networking". It is a 
significant enough that apt-offline is actively maintained 
[v1.7.1 released 2016-09-12].

I do admit the majority have ridiculously large speed demon well 
connected machines.
That routinely causes problems for some of us ;{

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#175163

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

L'octidi 8 frimaire, an CCXXV, Greg Wooledge a écrit :
> A Linux system in 2016 without a working network is basically a brick,

Do you not know how to type and print a text without an Internet
connection?

Do you not know how to make computations without an Internet connection?

Do you not know how to tweak photos without an Internet connection?

Do you not know how to watch videos without an Internet connection?

Do you not know how to play games without an Internet connection?

Do you not know how to render 3D scenes without an Internet connection?

Do you not know how to manage your accounts without an Internet
connection?

People here can help you.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

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#175165

On Monday, November 28, 2016 10:12:58 AM Nicolas George wrote:
> Do you not know how to manage your accounts without an Internet
> connection?

I'm not the OP, but I don't know how to do that.  Are you referring to things 
like bank accounts or things like accounts on online services (e.g., for logon 
to google or such).  In either case, I don't know how to do that and would be 
interested to learn...

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#175166

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

L'octidi 8 frimaire, an CCXXV, rhkramer@gmail.com a écrit :
> I'm not the OP, but I don't know how to do that.  Are you referring to things 
> like bank accounts or things like accounts on online services (e.g., for logon 
> to google or such).

I am referring to things like bank accounts, everyday errands, etc.

I probably should have written "accounting" instead of "accounts",
sorry.

A lot of people do that with a spreadsheet.

There are specialized programs like Gnucash and Grisbi.

Myself, I use a text file and perl scripts.

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#175167

On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 04:35:55PM +0100, Nicolas George wrote:
> I am referring to things like bank accounts, everyday errands, etc.

I would find it rather difficult to access my bank's web-based account
management system without a network connection.  I think the only other
choice would be to walk into their actual brick and mortar location(*).
Telephone may be an option -- I will admit that I have not attempted
to bank by telephone with them since my bank merged with another bank
and now has a different brand name.  But I'm skeptical of it, from past
experiences.

(*) More like steel and glass.

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#175170

On Monday, November 28, 2016 10:35:55 AM Nicolas George wrote:
> L'octidi 8 frimaire, an CCXXV, rhkramer@gmail.com a écrit :
> > I'm not the OP, but I don't know how to do that.  Are you referring to
> > things like bank accounts or things like accounts on online services
> > (e.g., for logon to google or such).
> 
> I am referring to things like bank accounts, everyday errands, etc.
> 
> I probably should have written "accounting" instead of "accounts",
> sorry.
> 
> A lot of people do that with a spreadsheet.
> 
> There are specialized programs like Gnucash and Grisbi.
> 
> Myself, I use a text file and perl scripts.

Ok, understood, thanks!

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#175367

Anonymous:

> The error message:"A start job is running for LSB: Raise 
> network interface (xx sec/no limit)". Where xx is a count up in 
> seconds that never ends.
>

Greg Wooledge:

> "LSB" stands for Linux Standard Base [...] I don't know what LSB has 
> to do with Debian's boot process waiting for the network interfaces to 
> be configured before proceeding.
>

The systemd doco doesn't cover it.  Here you go:

* http://unix.stackexchange.com/a/233581/5132

* http://unix.stackexchange.com/a/326354/5132

So xe has an old van Smoorenburg rc script whose description is "Raise 
network interface", and that old rc script not completing its work is 
the problem.

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#175416

On Sat, Dec 03, 2016 at 05:34:13PM +0000, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:
> Anonymous:
> >The error message:"A start job is running for LSB: Raise 
> >network interface (xx sec/no limit)". Where xx is a count up in 
> >seconds that never ends.
> 
> Greg Wooledge:
> >"LSB" stands for Linux Standard Base [...] I don't know what LSB has 
> >to do with Debian's boot process waiting for the network interfaces to 
> >be configured before proceeding.
> 
> The systemd doco doesn't cover it.  Here you go:
> 
> * http://unix.stackexchange.com/a/233581/5132
> 
> * http://unix.stackexchange.com/a/326354/5132
> 
> So xe has an old van Smoorenburg rc script whose description is "Raise 
> network interface", and that old rc script not completing its work is 
> the problem.

Neither of those links talks about jessie's specific default script that
waits for network interfaces to start.  (Which I also have on my system.)
Neither do they mention this "van Smoorenburg".

So anyway, here's what I have.  This is all default jessie stuff, either
native jessie install, or an upgrade from a previous version of Debian,
I have no idea which:

wooledg@wooledg:~$ sudo grep -r -i 'raise network' /etc
[sudo] password for wooledg: 
/etc/init.d/networking:# Short-Description: Raise network interfaces.
/etc/init.d/networking:# Description:       Prepare /run/network directory, ifstate file and raise network interfaces, or take them down.

wooledg@wooledg:~$ less /etc/init.d/networking
#!/bin/sh -e
### BEGIN INIT INFO
# Provides:          networking ifupdown
# Required-Start:    mountkernfs $local_fs urandom
# Required-Stop:     $local_fs
# Default-Start:     S
# Default-Stop:      0 6
# Short-Description: Raise network interfaces.
# Description:       Prepare /run/network directory, ifstate file and raise netw
ork interfaces, or take them down.
### END INIT INFO
[...]

P.S.: no "van Smoorenburg" in the script itself either.

wooledg@wooledg:~$ sudo journalctl
[...]
Dec 05 03:31:18 wooledg systemd[1]: Starting Remote File Systems.
Dec 05 03:31:18 wooledg systemd[1]: Reached target Remote File Systems.
Dec 05 03:31:18 wooledg systemd[1]: Starting Trigger Flushing of Journal to Pers
Dec 05 03:31:18 wooledg systemd[1]: Starting LSB: Prepare console...
Dec 05 03:31:18 wooledg systemd[1]: Started Load/Save Random Seed.
Dec 05 03:31:18 wooledg systemd[1]: Starting LSB: Raise network interfaces....
Dec 05 03:31:19 wooledg kernel: kvm: disabled by bios
Dec 05 03:31:19 wooledg kernel: kvm: disabled by bios
Dec 05 03:31:19 wooledg kernel: kvm: disabled by bios
Dec 05 03:31:19 wooledg kernel: kvm: disabled by bios
Dec 05 03:31:19 wooledg kbd[364]: Setting console screen modes.
Dec 05 03:31:19 wooledg systemd-journal[200]: Runtime journal is using 8.0M (max
Dec 05 03:31:19 wooledg systemd[1]: Started Trigger Flushing of Journal to Persi
Dec 05 03:31:19 wooledg kernel: intel_rapl: Found RAPL domain package
Dec 05 03:31:19 wooledg kernel: intel_rapl: Found RAPL domain core
Dec 05 03:31:19 wooledg kernel: intel_rapl: Found RAPL domain uncore
Dec 05 03:31:19 wooledg kernel: intel_rapl: RAPL package 0 domain package locked
Dec 05 03:31:19 wooledg systemd[1]: Started Create Volatile Files and Directorie
Dec 05 03:31:19 wooledg systemd[1]: Starting Update UTMP about System Boot/Shutd
Dec 05 03:31:19 wooledg systemd[1]: Found device WDC_WD2500AAKX-60U6AA0 3.
Dec 05 03:31:19 wooledg systemd[1]: Activating swap /dev/disk/by-uuid/b8d67062-8
Dec 05 03:31:19 wooledg kernel: Adding 4939772k swap on /dev/sda3.  Priority:-1 
Dec 05 03:31:19 wooledg systemd[1]: Activated swap /dev/disk/by-uuid/b8d67062-82
[...]
Dec 05 03:31:28 wooledg networking[373]: DHCPOFFER from 10.76.172.3
Dec 05 03:31:28 wooledg dhclient[514]: DHCPACK from 10.76.172.3
Dec 05 03:31:28 wooledg networking[373]: DHCPACK from 10.76.172.3
Dec 05 03:31:28 wooledg networking[373]: Failed to reload smbd.service: sysinit.
Dec 05 03:31:28 wooledg networking[373]: invoke-rc.d: initscript smbd, action "r
Dec 05 03:31:28 wooledg dhclient[514]: bound to 10.76.172.109 -- renewal in 1082
Dec 05 03:31:28 wooledg networking[373]: bound to 10.76.172.109 -- renewal in 10
Dec 05 03:31:29 wooledg networking[373]: done.
Dec 05 03:31:29 wooledg systemd[1]: Started LSB: Raise network interfaces..
Dec 05 03:31:29 wooledg systemd[1]: Starting Network.
Dec 05 03:31:29 wooledg systemd[1]: Reached target Network.
Dec 05 03:31:29 wooledg systemd[1]: Starting Network is Online.
Dec 05 03:31:29 wooledg systemd[1]: Reached target Network is Online.
[...]

Given the 11 seconds between the two mentions of "Raise network",
which pretty closely matches the countdown I observed on the screen
while booting, I guess there's just one instance of the thing, and the
first line is when it starts, and the second line is when it finishes
(in response to dhcp-client being satisfied).

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#175443

Greg Wooledge:
> Neither of those links talks about jessie's specific default script that waits for network interfaces to start.

They do, however, explain what LSB has to do with things, which was what you wondered about.

Greg Wooledge:
> Neither do they mention this "van Smoorenburg".

Miguel van Smoorenburg.  He originally wrote the rc system that ran that script.  Other rc systems include the one written for NetBSD by Luke Mewburn.

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