Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > linux.debian.user > #280433 > unrolled thread

ግěcůžላኣዝዩ

Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user

Contents

  ግěcůžላኣዝዩ mullerrogatien@gmail.com - 2025-06-24 09:40 +0200
    Re: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ 🦓 <czyborra@gmail.com> - 2025-06-24 11:50 +0200
      Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2025-06-24 12:10 +0200
        Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2025-06-25 01:40 +0200
          Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] Alain D D Williams <addw@phcomp.co.uk> - 2025-06-25 01:50 +0200
          Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2025-06-25 02:00 +0200
            Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2025-06-25 02:50 +0200
              Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2025-06-25 08:50 +0200
            Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was:  ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] Greg <curtyshoo@gmail.com> - 2025-06-25 17:20 +0200
              Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2025-06-25 18:10 +0200
                Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] John Crawley <john@bunsenlabs.org> - 2025-06-27 04:20 +0200
                  Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2025-06-27 05:30 +0200
                    Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] Alain D D Williams <addw@phcomp.co.uk> - 2025-06-27 05:50 +0200
                    Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was:  ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] Greg <curtyshoo@gmail.com> - 2025-06-27 15:50 +0200
                      Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2025-06-27 16:10 +0200
                        Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list Greg <curtyshoo@gmail.com> - 2025-06-27 16:20 +0200
                          Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2025-06-27 16:50 +0200
                            Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2025-06-27 23:00 +0200
                      Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2025-06-27 16:40 +0200
                        Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list Alain D D Williams <addw@phcomp.co.uk> - 2025-06-27 16:50 +0200
                        Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was:  ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] Greg <curtyshoo@gmail.com> - 2025-06-27 16:50 +0200
                          Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2025-06-27 17:40 +0200
                          Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2025-06-27 19:10 +0200
                          Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] John Crawley <john@bunsenlabs.org> - 2025-06-28 03:20 +0200
                            Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list Stephan Seitz <stse+debian@rootsland.net> - 2025-06-28 12:10 +0200
                              Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2025-06-28 13:20 +0200
                                Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2025-06-29 11:20 +0200
                  Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2025-06-27 06:30 +0200
                  Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] Thomas Dineen <tdineen2021@gmail.com> - 2025-06-27 08:50 +0200
                  Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2025-06-27 09:20 +0200
                    Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] John Crawley <john@bunsenlabs.org> - 2025-06-27 10:10 +0200
                      Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2025-06-27 10:50 +0200
                        Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ] John Crawley <john@bunsenlabs.org> - 2025-06-28 03:10 +0200
                  Using MUAs to bounce mail (was: Please, don't reply to spam ...) Ralph Aichinger <ra@h5.or.at> - 2025-06-29 12:30 +0200
                    Re: Using MUAs to bounce mail (was: Please, don't reply to spam ...) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2025-06-29 12:50 +0200
                      Re: Using MUAs to bounce mail (was: Please, don't reply to spam ...) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2025-06-29 14:20 +0200
                    Re: Using MUAs to bounce mail (was: Please, don't reply to spam ...) Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2025-06-29 14:20 +0200
      Re: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ Sand <sand@cybert.me> - 2025-06-24 12:10 +0200
        Re: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ 🦓 <czyborra@gmail.com> - 2025-06-24 13:10 +0200
          Spam on this list, top-posting and things. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2025-06-24 13:40 +0200
          Re: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ Frank Weißer <linux@weisser-ol.de> - 2025-06-24 13:40 +0200
            Re: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ 🦓 <czyborra@gmail.com> - 2025-06-24 14:10 +0200
              [subject censored] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2025-06-24 14:20 +0200

Page 1 of 3  [1] 2 3  Next page →

#280433 — ግěcůžላኣዝዩ

Hallo,
Ich Wende mich an alle Einzelpersonen und Unternehmen, die Finanzmittel für Ihre Projekte benötigen. Ich biete Darlehen an, die je nach Betrag angepasst sind souhaité.Si Sie sind tatsächlich in not, zögern Sie nicht, mich zu Kontaktieren, um weitere Informationen zu erhalten.

Bonjour, 
Je me tourne vers tous les particuliers et toutes les entreprises dans le besoin financier pour leurs fait part que j'octroie des financements selon le montant souhaité. Si vous êtes vraiment dans le besoin, veuillez m'écrire pour avoir plus d'informations.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#280436

Schick einfach das Geld rüber und verpiss Dich aus geldbefreiten
Kommunistinnenkommunen!

Op di 24 jun 2025 om 10:04 schreef <mullerrogatien@gmail.com>:
>
> Hallo,
> Ich Wende mich an alle Einzelpersonen und Unternehmen, die Finanzmittel für Ihre Projekte benötigen. Ich biete Darlehen an, die je nach Betrag angepasst sind souhaité.Si Sie sind tatsächlich in not, zögern Sie nicht, mich zu Kontaktieren, um weitere Informationen zu erhalten.
>
> Bonjour,
> Je me tourne vers tous les particuliers et toutes les entreprises dans le besoin financier pour leurs fait part que j'octroie des financements selon le montant souhaité. Si vous êtes vraiment dans le besoin, veuillez m'écrire pour avoir plus d'informations.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#280437 — Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 09:45:43AM +0200, 🦓 wrote:
> Schick einfach das Geld rüber und verpiss Dich aus geldbefreiten
> Kommunistinnenkommunen!

Bravo. That must have felt... great for you.

Please, don't do that. You amplify the spam and incommodate the ~3k
subscribers of this list. Then you top-post and include the full spam
body, to make extra sure everybody has seen it.

Not good.

if you want to do everyone a favour, you bounce the original message
to <report-listspam@lists.debian.org> to help the list spam team train
their filters (I did).

Cheers
-- 
tomás

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#280451 — Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 3:09 AM <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:

> ....
>
> Please, don't do that. You amplify the spam and incommodate the ~3k
> subscribers of this list. Then you top-post and include the full spam
> body, to make extra sure everybody has seen it.
>
> Not good.
>
> if you want to do everyone a favour, you bounce the original message
> to <report-listspam@lists.debian.org> to help the list spam team train
> their filters (I did).
>
> Cheers
> --
> tomás
>

Hi Tomás,

This like sounds like good and important advice, but how do you "bounce the
original message"?

Does that mean forward the message to the  report-listspam?

Do you need to attach text to it to explain why it is spam?

(Is this something i can do from gmail?)

Thanks in advance for any info.

dan

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#280452 — Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 04:33:38PM -0700, Dan Hitt wrote:

> Hi Tomás,
> 
> This like sounds like good and important advice, but how do you "bounce the
> original message"?

This is something that your MUA (Mail reader) should do. It will be different
for every MUA.

I use mutt - that has got a 'bounce' command that works in much the same way as
does 'forward'.

Forwarding will make the email appear to come from you. It will also change the
message body to say that the message was forwarded from xxx@yyy.

Bounce does not change the message body at all; it will make minimal header
changes.

> Does that mean forward the message to the  report-listspam?
> 
> Do you need to attach text to it to explain why it is spam?
> 
> (Is this something i can do from gmail?)

I have no idea - I do not use gmail; spend some time to see if it has the
ability.

> Thanks in advance for any info.
> 
> dan


-- 
Alain Williams
Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT Lecturer.
+44 (0) 787 668 0256  https://www.phcomp.co.uk/
Parliament Hill Computers. Registration Information: https://www.phcomp.co.uk/Contact.html
#include <std_disclaimer.h>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#280453 — Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 16:33:38 -0700, Dan Hitt wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 3:09 AM <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:
> > if you want to do everyone a favour, you bounce the original message
> > to <report-listspam@lists.debian.org> to help the list spam team train
> > their filters (I did).

> This like sounds like good and important advice, but how do you "bounce the
> original message"?

By using the "bounce" feature of your MUA.  Only good ones have it.

> Does that mean forward the message to the  report-listspam?

No.  Forwarding and bouncing are different operations.

> Do you need to attach text to it to explain why it is spam?

No.  It'll be obvious.

> (Is this something i can do from gmail?)

Probably not.

If you're a webmail user (that includes gmail, hotmail, yahoo! mail,
and so on), your best bet will be to delete the message from your
inbox, and hope that someone else reports it.

If you really feel a strong need to report it, wait 15 minutes or so,
then go to the mailing list archive page,[1] and find the message there.
In the upper right corner of the message page, there's a button labeled
"Report as spam".  Click that.

[1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#280454 — Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 4:50 PM Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 16:33:38 -0700, Dan Hitt wrote:
> > On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 3:09 AM <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:
> > > if you want to do everyone a favour, you bounce the original message
> > > to <report-listspam@lists.debian.org> to help the list spam team train
> > > their filters (I did).
>
> > This like sounds like good and important advice, but how do you "bounce
> the
> > original message"?
>
> By using the "bounce" feature of your MUA.  Only good ones have it.
>
> > Does that mean forward the message to the  report-listspam?
>
> No.  Forwarding and bouncing are different operations.
>
> > Do you need to attach text to it to explain why it is spam?
>
> No.  It'll be obvious.
>
> > (Is this something i can do from gmail?)
>
> Probably not.
>
> If you're a webmail user (that includes gmail, hotmail, yahoo! mail,
> and so on), your best bet will be to delete the message from your
> inbox, and hope that someone else reports it.
>
> If you really feel a strong need to report it, wait 15 minutes or so,
> then go to the mailing list archive page,[1] and find the message there.
> In the upper right corner of the message page, there's a button labeled
> "Report as spam".  Click that.
>

Thanks so much Greg for your detailed reply and explanation.  (Thanks also
Alain for your remarks on agents and bouncing.)

So for now i'll just continue to refrain from responding to spam, and if i
change mailing systems or gmail gets a bounce feature i'll try bouncing.

dan


>
> [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/
>
>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#280455 — Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 05:44:11PM -0700, Dan Hitt wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 4:50 PM Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 16:33:38 -0700, Dan Hitt wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 3:09 AM <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:
> > > > if you want to do everyone a favour, you bounce the original message
> > > > to <report-listspam@lists.debian.org> to help the list spam team train
> > > > their filters (I did).
> >
> > > This like sounds like good and important advice, but how do you "bounce
> > the
> > > original message"?

[...]

> Thanks so much Greg for your detailed reply and explanation.  (Thanks also
> Alain for your remarks on agents and bouncing.)
> 
> So for now i'll just continue to refrain from responding to spam, and if i
> change mailing systems or gmail gets a bounce feature i'll try bouncing.

I tried asking a search engine how to bounce mails from gmail, since I
don't have an account with them. The results are... mixed, alas. Some
offer bouncing back "to sender" (which with spam is *ALWAYS* a very bad
idea!), some say the option is only available in the paid version (this
feels kind of right for G). Whatever.

I'd say the g in gmail stands i for "garbage" (not that hotmail and its
ilk were any better, mind you).

My take is that the Big Ones conspire (consciously or unconsciously) to
make mail less useful. Poison the well to sell bottled water.

Cheers
-- 
t 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#280464 — Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On 2025-06-24, Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:
>
>> This like sounds like good and important advice, but how do you "bounce the
>> original message"?
>
> By using the "bounce" feature of your MUA.  Only good ones have it.
>
>> Does that mean forward the message to the  report-listspam?
>
> No.  Forwarding and bouncing are different operations.

One problem for the casual user is that there's bouncing and then
there's bouncing. For most us, bouncing means that the mail server
rejects the email.

https://www.activecampaign.com/glossary/bounced-email

For those in the know like you, it means redirecting the email
anonymously to another recipient.

I'm familiar with the latter as an Alpine user, BTW.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#280465 — Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 03:18:05PM -0000, Greg wrote:
> On 2025-06-24, Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:
> >
> >> This like sounds like good and important advice, but how do you "bounce the
> >> original message"?
> >
> > By using the "bounce" feature of your MUA.  Only good ones have it.
> >
> >> Does that mean forward the message to the  report-listspam?
> >
> > No.  Forwarding and bouncing are different operations.
> 
> One problem for the casual user is that there's bouncing and then
> there's bouncing. For most us, bouncing means that the mail server
> rejects the email.

Yep. That's where the name comes from. It sends the mail back, with
as much intact info as possible to allow the mail admin to debug the
situation. Bouncing from the MUA does technically the same, so the
same name is appropriate.

> https://www.activecampaign.com/glossary/bounced-email
> 
> For those in the know like you, it means redirecting the email
> anonymously to another recipient.
> 
> I'm familiar with the latter as an Alpine user, BTW.

Cheers
-- 
t

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#280468 — Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On 26/06/2025 01:00, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 03:18:05PM -0000, Greg wrote:
>> On 2025-06-24, Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This like sounds like good and important advice, but how do you "bounce the
>>>> original message"?
>>>
>>> By using the "bounce" feature of your MUA.  Only good ones have it.
>>>
>>>> Does that mean forward the message to the  report-listspam?
>>>
>>> No.  Forwarding and bouncing are different operations.
>>
>> One problem for the casual user is that there's bouncing and then
>> there's bouncing. For most us, bouncing means that the mail server
>> rejects the email.
> 
> Yep. That's where the name comes from. It sends the mail back, with
> as much intact info as possible to allow the mail admin to debug the
> situation. Bouncing from the MUA does technically the same, so the
> same name is appropriate.
> 
>> https://www.activecampaign.com/glossary/bounced-email
>>
>> For those in the know like you, it means redirecting the email
>> anonymously to another recipient.
>>
>> I'm familiar with the latter as an Alpine user, BTW.

I think "bouncing" is something that should really be done on a server, not by a user email agent, even a "good" one.

Even so, "resend" is often available, either built-in or as a plugin, using the "Resent*" fields:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5322#section-3.6.6

The Debian Wiki has these suggestions for how to deal with spam:
https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/ListMaster/ListArchiveSpam#nominate
and
https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/ListMaster/FAQ#The_lists_are_spam-laden.2C_I_want_to_help_you

So it looks as if resending a spam message to report-listspam@lists.debian.org is OK, although "bouncing" the message back to the server is very much not, even if your MUA can do that.

-- 
John

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#280469 — Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 10:58:54 +0900, John Crawley wrote:
> The Debian Wiki has these suggestions for how to deal with spam:
> https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/ListMaster/ListArchiveSpam#nominate

The fourth option there says:

 * Use your mail client's bounce/resend/redirect functionality to send
   the spam messages to report-listspam@lists.debian.org

> So it looks as if resending a spam message to report-listspam@lists.debian.org is OK, although "bouncing" the message back to the server is very much not, even if your MUA can do that.

I'm pretty sure the wiki says it's OK.  I cited it right up there.

To be clear, what we're talking about here is what mutt does when you
press the "b" key.  It queues up a message for delivery, where the
envelope recipient address is one that you specify by typing it in,
and the entire message (header + body) is exactly what you received,
with no modifications made by the MUA.

Mutt calls this action "bounce", but I would not use the phrase "back
to the server" to describe it.  It's more like a forwarding action,
because you're passing the message along to a new recipient.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#280470 — Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 11:29:23PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 10:58:54 +0900, John Crawley wrote:
> > The Debian Wiki has these suggestions for how to deal with spam:
> > https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/ListMaster/ListArchiveSpam#nominate
> 
> The fourth option there says:
> 
>  * Use your mail client's bounce/resend/redirect functionality to send
>    the spam messages to report-listspam@lists.debian.org
> 
> > So it looks as if resending a spam message to report-listspam@lists.debian.org is OK, although "bouncing" the message back to the server is very much not, even if your MUA can do that.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the wiki says it's OK.  I cited it right up there.
> 
> To be clear, what we're talking about here is what mutt does when you
> press the "b" key.  It queues up a message for delivery, where the
> envelope recipient address is one that you specify by typing it in,
> and the entire message (header + body) is exactly what you received,
> with no modifications made by the MUA.

I have just tried this, re-sending the message to which I am replying to myself.
I do see some differences to the header, some of which will be my local MTA
(exim) but I think that those added by mutt are: Resent-From: Resent-Date:
Resent-Message-ID: Resent-To:  If Resent-From: the message might not be
delivered due to SPF issues.

2,3c2,3
< From bounce-debian-user=addw=phcomp.co.uk@lists.debian.org Fri Jun 27 04:30:24 2025
< Return-path: <bounce-debian-user=addw=phcomp.co.uk@lists.debian.org>
---
> From addw@phcomp.co.uk Fri Jun 27 04:32:28 2025
> Return-path: <addw@phcomp.co.uk>
5c5,14
< Delivery-date: Fri, 27 Jun 2025 04:30:24 +0100
---
> Delivery-date: Fri, 27 Jun 2025 04:32:28 +0100
> Received: from addw by mint.phcomp.co.uk with local (Exim 4.96)
> 	(envelope-from <addw@phcomp.co.uk>)
> 	id 1uUzpD-00Ewy0-32
> 	for addw@phcomp.co.uk;
> 	Fri, 27 Jun 2025 04:32:28 +0100
> Resent-From: Alain D D Williams <addw@phcomp.co.uk>
> Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2025 04:32:27 +0100
> Resent-Message-ID: <aF4Qy7mLKAW3K8jw@phcomp.co.uk>
> Resent-To: Alain Williams <addw@phcomp.co.uk>
25d33
< Delivered-To: lists-debian-user@bendel.debian.org
82d89
< Status: RO


> Mutt calls this action "bounce", but I would not use the phrase "back
> to the server" to describe it.  It's more like a forwarding action,
> because you're passing the message along to a new recipient.
> 

-- 
Alain Williams
Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT Lecturer.
+44 (0) 787 668 0256  https://www.phcomp.co.uk/
Parliament Hill Computers. Registration Information: https://www.phcomp.co.uk/Contact.html
#include <std_disclaimer.h>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#280476 — Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On 2025-06-27, Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:
>
> To be clear, what we're talking about here is what mutt does when you
> press the "b" key.  It queues up a message for delivery, where the

Bounce can and does mean a rejection of the email by the *server*, so
your proposal seems nonsensical or confusing, as the email has
already been delivered to its recipients.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#280477 — Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list

Greg (HE12025-06-27):
> Bounce can and does mean a rejection of the email by the *server*

No, that is not accurate. Server rejecting a mail and server bouncing a
mail are different mechanism.

The server rejects the mail by returning an error code at SMTP level. No
bounce is generated.

If the server has accepted the mail but something later fails, it cannot
return the error through the protocol, so the solution is to generate a
delivery status notification message, commonly called bounce.

The confusion comes from the fact that SMTP operates with relays: if the
next relay rejects the mail, then the previous relay has to generate
delivery status notification message.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#280478 — Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list

On 2025-06-27, Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> wrote:
> Greg (HE12025-06-27):
>> Bounce can and does mean a rejection of the email by the *server*
>
> No, that is not accurate. Server rejecting a mail and server bouncing a
> mail are different mechanism.

 What is a Bounce Email?  Definition: A bounce email is an email that has
 not been delivered to its recipient. It is sent back to the sender with
 an error message.

https://www.altospam.com/en/glossary/bounce/

I'm ready for a real definition, if you have one. But bounce seems
certainly not to mean redirecting the email once received to another
recipient.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#280481 — Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list

Greg (HE12025-06-27):
>  What is a Bounce Email?  Definition: A bounce email is an email that has
>  not been delivered to its recipient. It is sent back to the sender with
>  an error message.
> 
> https://www.altospam.com/en/glossary/bounce/

Do people our age need explaining that not everything written is true?

> I'm ready for a real definition, if you have one. But bounce seems
> certainly not to mean redirecting the email once received to another
> recipient.

Do people our age need explaining that words can have multiple meanings,
especially technical words used in different fields?

-- 
  Nicolas George

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#280485 — Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list

On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 16:43:00 +0200
Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> wrote:

> Do people our age need explaining that words can have multiple
> meanings, especially technical words used in different fields?

Hear, hear. Especially after this thread has shown exactly that to a
fault.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#280479 — Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 13:46:40 -0000, Greg wrote:
> On 2025-06-27, Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:
> >
> > To be clear, what we're talking about here is what mutt does when you
> > press the "b" key.  It queues up a message for delivery, where the
> 
> Bounce can and does mean a rejection of the email by the *server*, so
> your proposal seems nonsensical or confusing, as the email has
> already been delivered to its recipients.

I am not proposing anything.  I am *explaining*.

This is the terminology that mutt uses.

Is it confusing?  Yes.  Could a better word have been chosen?  Probably.
But this is what they chose.

<https://mutt.org/doc/manual/#sending-intro>

    Key   Function            Description
    m     <mail>              compose a new message
    r     <reply>             reply to sender
    g     <group-reply>       reply to all recipients
          <group-chat-reply>  reply to all recipients preserving To/Cc
    L     <list-reply>        reply to mailing list address
    f     <forward>           forward message
    b     <bounce>            bounce (remail) message
    Esc k <mail-key>          mail a PGP public key to someone

    Bouncing a message sends the message as-is to the recipient you
    specify. Forwarding a message allows you to add comments or modify
    the message you are forwarding. These items are discussed in greater
    detail in the next section “Forwarding and Bouncing Mail.”

<https://mutt.org/doc/manual/#forwarding-mail>

    Bouncing and forwarding let you send an existing message to recipients
    that you specify. Bouncing a message sends a verbatim copy of a
    message to alternative addresses as if they were the message's
    original recipients specified in the Bcc header. Forwarding a
    message, on the other hand, allows you to modify the message before
    it is resent (for example, by adding your own comments). Bouncing is
    done using the <bounce> function and forwarding using the <forward>
    function bound to “b” and “f” respectively.

I agree that *normally*, *for most people*, the word "bounce" in the
context of email refers to an automatically generated error message
composed by an MTA and sent to the envelope sender address of a
message that could not be delivered.

I agree that it's very confusing that mutt also chose to use the word
"bounce" to mean "forward a message with its original headers intact".

Nevertheless, that's what they chose, and that's what we're explaining
to you.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#280480 — Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list

On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 02:19:22PM -0000, Greg wrote:

>  What is a Bounce Email?  Definition: A bounce email is an email that has
>  not been delivered to its recipient. It is sent back to the sender with
>  an error message.
> 
> https://www.altospam.com/en/glossary/bounce/

The word "bounce" in relation to email has multiple definitions. The above is
the one most commonly used.

On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 10:32:40AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> This is the terminology that mutt uses.

+1

I use mutt as my MUA; I will occasionally "bounce" an email, eg I had sent an
email to several people but forgot one who I had meant to send it to; so I will
"bounce" my archived copy to them.

> Is it confusing?  Yes.  Could a better word have been chosen?  Probably.
> But this is what they chose.

+1

-- 
Alain Williams
Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT Lecturer.
+44 (0) 787 668 0256  https://www.phcomp.co.uk/
Parliament Hill Computers. Registration Information: https://www.phcomp.co.uk/Contact.html
#include <std_disclaimer.h>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 1 of 3  [1] 2 3  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | linux.debian.user

csiph-web