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Groups > linux.debian.user > #275930 > unrolled thread
| Started by | "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2024-12-21 18:50 +0100 |
| Last post | 2024-12-22 17:20 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 132 — 31 participants |
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new computer arriving soon "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2024-12-21 18:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-12-21 20:30 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2024-12-21 21:20 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2024-12-22 02:20 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2024-12-22 02:20 +0100
UEFI, Export from Virtualbox [WAS Re: new computer arriving soon] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-12-22 09:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2024-12-26 20:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-12-26 23:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-12-27 17:30 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Marc Shapiro <marcnshap@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 05:10 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-31 05:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-12-31 19:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-31 23:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2025-01-01 00:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-01 01:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon pocket@homemail.com - 2025-01-01 15:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Frank Guthausen <fg.debian@shimps.de> - 2025-01-01 15:30 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon pocket@homemail.com - 2025-01-01 15:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-01 16:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon pocket@homemail.com - 2025-01-01 17:20 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-01 18:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon pocket@homemail.com - 2025-01-01 18:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 03:10 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon pocket@homemail.com - 2025-01-02 03:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2025-01-01 17:30 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-01 18:20 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-01 22:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2025-01-01 19:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-01 22:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2025-01-02 14:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-03 04:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-03 17:30 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2025-01-03 13:10 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 03:30 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon pocket@homemail.com - 2025-01-02 03:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 04:30 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon pocket@homemail.com - 2025-01-02 04:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 16:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon pocket@homemail.com - 2025-01-02 17:10 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 05:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-04 11:20 +0100
Gene and networkmanager (was: Re: new computer arriving soon) Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 04:50 +0100
Re: Gene and networkmanager (was: Re: new computer arriving soon) gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-05 17:20 +0100
/dev/serial/by-id (was: Re: new computer arriving soon) Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 05:00 +0100
Re: /dev/serial/by-id (was: Re: new computer arriving soon) gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-05 17:30 +0100
Re: /dev/serial/by-id Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 03:30 +0100
Re: /dev/serial/by-id gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-06 08:20 +0100
Re: /dev/serial/by-id Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 04:20 +0100
Re: /dev/serial/by-id gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-07 10:00 +0100
Re: /dev/serial/by-id gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-07 14:50 +0100
Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-01-07 16:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-01-07 16:50 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes eben@gmx.us - 2025-01-07 17:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2025-01-07 17:40 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes eben@gmx.us - 2025-01-07 18:00 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-01-07 20:40 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2025-01-08 06:30 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-07 17:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-07 17:30 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-01-07 18:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2025-01-09 04:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-09 05:50 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-01-09 16:30 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-01-09 18:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2025-01-09 21:50 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-10 00:50 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2025-01-10 01:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Timothy M Butterworth <timothy.m.butterworth@gmail.com> - 2025-01-10 02:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-01-10 11:00 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-10 15:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2025-01-10 07:30 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2025-01-10 15:50 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes eben@gmx.us - 2025-01-10 21:40 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-11 01:50 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2025-01-11 01:40 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Heriberto Avelino <heriberto.avelino@gmail.com> - 2025-01-10 01:30 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Kushal Kumaran <kushal@locationd.net> - 2025-01-07 20:20 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2025-01-07 21:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-07 23:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Urs Thuermann <urs@isnogud.escape.de> - 2025-01-10 03:00 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-10 05:30 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-01-10 15:40 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2025-01-07 23:10 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-08 00:30 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2025-01-07 17:40 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-01-07 20:30 +0100
Re: Mass storage sizes (was: /dev/serial/by-id) Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2025-01-09 08:40 +0100
Re: /dev/serial/by-id Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-08 04:00 +0100
Re: /dev/serial/by-id Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-08 04:10 +0100
Re: /dev/serial/by-id Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@debian-user.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-01-07 11:20 +0100
Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: new computer arriving soon] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2025-01-02 17:00 +0100
Re: Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: new computer arrivingsoon] gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-02 23:10 +0100
Re: Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: new computer arrivingsoon] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2025-01-02 23:20 +0100
Re: Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: new computer arrivingsoon] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2025-01-02 23:30 +0100
Re: Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: new computer arrivingsoon] Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-03 00:10 +0100
Re: Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: new computer arrivingsoon] Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2025-01-03 04:00 +0100
Re: Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: new computerarrivingsoon] gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-03 05:00 +0100
Re: Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: new computerarrivingsoon] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2025-01-03 14:00 +0100
Re: Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: new computer arrivingsoon] Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-03 03:40 +0100
Re: Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: new computerarrivingsoon] gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-03 05:10 +0100
Re: Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: new computerarrivingsoon] Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 04:30 +0100
Re: Specific mdadm instructions for Gene [WAS Re: newcomputerarrivingsoon] gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-04 04:50 +0100
sgdisk missing under Armbian for Gene [WAS Specific mdadm instructions for Gene] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2025-01-03 12:40 +0100
Re: sgdisk missing under Armbian for Gene [WAS Specific mdadm instructions for Gene] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2025-01-03 12:50 +0100
Re: sgdisk missing under Armbian for Gene [WAS Specific mdadminstructions for Gene] gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-03 17:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 04:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2025-01-02 05:30 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2025-01-02 08:30 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-02 23:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon fxkl47BF@protonmail.com - 2025-01-02 23:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2025-01-03 00:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-03 00:20 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2025-01-03 00:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2025-01-03 17:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-03 17:20 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2025-01-10 05:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2025-01-03 00:10 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2025-01-03 00:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-03 00:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2025-01-03 00:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2025-01-03 00:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2025-01-03 17:00 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 16:30 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Frank Guthausen <fg.debian@shimps.de> - 2024-12-31 20:20 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 04:10 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-01-02 23:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon Marc Shapiro <marcnshap@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 06:10 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2024-12-27 20:20 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2024-12-22 00:40 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2024-12-22 02:30 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> - 2024-12-22 05:50 +0100
Re: new computer arriving soon songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2024-12-22 17:20 +0100
Page 2 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 Next page →
| From | Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-01 18:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <K0aeB-4Nn8-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276248 |
On Wed, Jan 01, 2025 at 05:18:58PM +0100, pocket@homemail.com wrote: >Thank you for proving my point, I knew I would not be disappointed. > >Your proof positive that my point is well established. What point? The reactions you encounter are those that you've earned. Some of the valuable content you've provided in just the past couple of weeks: > google smarthost Quite the helpful answer for someone asking a straightforward question: tell them to google. > Masked units don't hurt a thing, that is if you known [sic] what > your [sic] doing and know why you want or need to mask certain units. Ok....so what are the reasons? What's your point? You seem to be implying that other people don't know what they're doing, but it's not clear what it is that you think you know. > I am using NFS and don't want or need NFS V3 as I only wand [sic] NFS V4. Excellent non sequitor. > I have a better strategy for passwords > I use my wifes underwear size That was an especially valuable addition to the conversation. > I'll say it the installer is broke!!! > I've had it install orca and company also. > The last install I did using the installer I had a great number of > packages that had to be removed as I wanted a somewhat minimum install. Another rant, no details, no content, no real desire to fix anything or learn anything or share anything. Many other people manage to install minimal debian systems with less drama, there's simply not enough here to understand why you cannot. Nor do you seem to actually care. > Remove all the cuft took too long and the animosity from the debian folks was well over the top. Have you ever wondered why you, in particular, are recieving "animosity"? Some large portion of which isn't from "debian folks", but from other users fed up with your behavior? > Any way I don't use debian for any new installs any more having gone to Archlinux. > Arch was way less trouble and I got what I wanted without removing a ton > of installed things I just didn't need. > I have only three systems left running debian and they will be in the > dustbin of history soon. Ah, the tantalizing promise that you're going to go somewhere else and stop complaining here, soon to be broken. > Well not on your life, debian has thrown so much shade at me in 2 years that I won't waste any of my time. > And waste my time it would be because debian won't listen and just throw shade at any information I would give them anyway. > I don't need the non sense. > I don't need the hassle." And yet, still here... > Returning to lurker mode. If only that were true.
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| From | pocket@homemail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-01 18:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <K0aeB-4Nn8-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276250 |
> Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2025 at 11:51 AM > From: "Michael Stone" <mstone@debian.org> > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org > Subject: Re: new computer arriving soon > > On Wed, Jan 01, 2025 at 05:18:58PM +0100, pocket@homemail.com wrote: > >Thank you for proving my point, I knew I would not be disappointed. > > > >Your proof positive that my point is well established. > > What point? The reactions you encounter are those that you've earned. > > > Some of the valuable content you've provided in just the past couple of > weeks: > > > google smarthost > > Quite the helpful answer for someone asking a straightforward question: > tell them to google. > > > Masked units don't hurt a thing, that is if you known [sic] what > > your [sic] doing and know why you want or need to mask certain units. > > Ok....so what are the reasons? What's your point? You seem to be > implying that other people don't know what they're doing, but it's not > clear what it is that you think you know. > > > I am using NFS and don't want or need NFS V3 as I only wand [sic] NFS V4. > > Excellent non sequitor. > > > I have a better strategy for passwords > > I use my wifes underwear size > > That was an especially valuable addition to the conversation. > > > I'll say it the installer is broke!!! > > I've had it install orca and company also. > > The last install I did using the installer I had a great number of > > packages that had to be removed as I wanted a somewhat minimum install. > > Another rant, no details, no content, no real desire to fix anything or > learn anything or share anything. Many other people manage to install > minimal debian systems with less drama, there's simply not enough here > to understand why you cannot. Nor do you seem to actually care. > > > Remove all the cuft took too long and the animosity from the debian folks was well over the top. > > Have you ever wondered why you, in particular, are recieving > "animosity"? Some large portion of which isn't from "debian folks", but > from other users fed up with your behavior? > > > Any way I don't use debian for any new installs any more having gone to Archlinux. > > Arch was way less trouble and I got what I wanted without removing a ton > > of installed things I just didn't need. > > I have only three systems left running debian and they will be in the > > dustbin of history soon. > > Ah, the tantalizing promise that you're going to go somewhere else and > stop complaining here, soon to be broken. > > > Well not on your life, debian has thrown so much shade at me in 2 years that I won't waste any of my time. > > And waste my time it would be because debian won't listen and just throw shade at any information I would give them anyway. > > I don't need the non sense. > > I don't need the hassle." > > And yet, still here... > > > Returning to lurker mode. > > If only that were true. > You forgot this one. https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/packaging/packages/fetchmail Description=Fetchmail After=network.target [Service] User=fetchmail ExecStart=/usr/bin/fetchmail --pidfile /run/fetchmail/fetchmailrc.pid -f /etc/fetchmailrc RestartSec=1 [Install] WantedBy=multi-user.target >
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| From | Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-02 03:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <K0iOR-4SYy-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276251 |
On 01/01/2025 23:58, pocket@homemail.com wrote: > You forgot this one. > > https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/packaging/packages/fetchmail > > Description=Fetchmail > After=network.target > > [Service] > User=fetchmail > ExecStart=/usr/bin/fetchmail --pidfile /run/fetchmail/fetchmailrc.pid -f /etc/fetchmailrc > RestartSec=1 > > [Install] > WantedBy=multi-user.target Out of the curiosity, have you reported back to Arch that this service file could be improved? I suggest you to reread that topic trying to figure out why others missed your actual point ant they reacted harsh enough instead. Sometimes it is not easy to express an idea in proper words and to do it at proper time. Blaming others in the case of a fault is not constructive. Attention is a precious resource.
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| From | pocket@homemail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-02 03:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <K0jhU-4T88-19@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276264 |
> Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2025 at 9:09 PM > From: "Max Nikulin" <manikulin@gmail.com> > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org > Subject: Re: new computer arriving soon > > On 01/01/2025 23:58, pocket@homemail.com wrote: > > You forgot this one. > > > > https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/packaging/packages/fetchmail > > > > Description=Fetchmail > > After=network.target > > > > [Service] > > User=fetchmail > > ExecStart=/usr/bin/fetchmail --pidfile /run/fetchmail/fetchmailrc.pid -f /etc/fetchmailrc > > RestartSec=1 > > > > [Install] > > WantedBy=multi-user.target > > Out of the curiosity, have you reported back to Arch that this service > file could be improved? > > I suggest you to reread that topic trying to figure out why others > missed your actual point ant they reacted harsh enough instead. > Sometimes it is not easy to express an idea in proper words and to do it > at proper time. Blaming others in the case of a fault is not > constructive. Attention is a precious resource. > I am done with this
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| From | Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-01 17:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <K09Lz-4N7f-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276247 |
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 10:37:38 -0500 Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> wrote: > You've been trolling with messages that add exactly zero value,… Please don't feed the trolls. -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
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| From | Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-01 18:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <K0axX-4NJM-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276249 |
On Wed, Jan 01, 2025 at 09:29:01AM -0700, Charles Curley wrote: >Please don't feed the trolls. It's a tough line to walk. On the one hand, yeah, we don't want to feed the trolls. But if the trolls keep going anyway with no sign they will stop, we run the risk of implicitly supporting unchallenged narratives. A person walking in fresh is told repeatedly that debian capriciously suppresses people just trying to help, and is hostile to questions, newcomers, whatever. Should they just believe that? If they see post after post of (the same) people posting problems that nobody can or will solve, do they feel encouraged to post their own questions? The people who have been around just delete the noise on autopilot--which is certainly a useful coping mechanism--but where does that leave new arrivals and what does that do to the basic character of the list? The internet has yet to really come up with a good answer to any of this.
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-01 22:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <K0dYR-4PEI-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276253 |
On 1/1/25 12:15, Michael Stone wrote: > On Wed, Jan 01, 2025 at 09:29:01AM -0700, Charles Curley wrote: >> Please don't feed the trolls. > > It's a tough line to walk. On the one hand, yeah, we don't want to > feed the trolls. But if the trolls keep going anyway with no sign they > will stop, we run the risk of implicitly supporting unchallenged > narratives. A person walking in fresh is told repeatedly that debian > capriciously suppresses people just trying to help, and is hostile to > questions, newcomers, whatever. Should they just believe that? If they > see post after post of (the same) people posting problems that nobody > can or will solve, do they feel encouraged to post their own > questions? The people who have been around just delete the noise on > autopilot--which is certainly a useful coping mechanism--but where > does that leave new arrivals and what does that do to the basic > character of the list? The internet has yet to really come up with a > good answer to any of this. What gets lost in the translation is the fact that debian serves as a filter that 95% of the other distro's use as src for their versions. In the process, fixing the x86'isms so it runs on other architectures. Can't be helped, they share a chair at the head of the linux table with red hat. Trying to satisfy all is a hopeless cause, but some of the more important stuff inevitably falls thru the cracks too. Like the present situation where the installer can't find a network on arm stuff. If it could, we could build on that, using debian-arm, but no network is a mountain many can't climb w/o an error msg we can read. The interface is not even created by the installer. I had to setup a dhcpd server for one of my printers, but even with a working dhcpd on my local 192.168.xx,yy net, your current installer cannot find it. Apparently it does work for many others, people who seem to be satisfied if it boots. To actually boot and do something useful is blasphemous. Why not for me? So I use something that just works. Either way, I catch sttatic but that non working debian-arm code was fixed by others. IMO those patches s/b incorporated in debian-arm. It boils down to debian having the idea they can do no wrong, not accepting such help is the elephant in this room. Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
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| From | Joe <joe@jretrading.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-01 19:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <K0bX3-4Ot6-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276244 |
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 14:58:25 +0100 pocket@homemail.com wrote: > > Gene you are exactly correct, even this list is hostile. You mistake an inability to be of help for hostility. > > debian is hostile against anything that is not debian. No. Debian isn't anything that isn't Debian, and it's unreasonable to expect users of Debian to be familiar with any of the many Debian derivatives. The derivatives differ from Debian in various ways, and it is reasonable to expect users of those derivatives to be at least partly familiar with the differences. It is not reasonable to expect Debian users to be familiar with them. > There is no call for that, there is no sense for being like that. > For example a package built for a different distro will not be broken > on debian, it all works basically the same. Why does debian do that? Because there is a good chance that something *is* different, such as the location of configuration files or even the file structure. Such things are extremely important when trying to get something to work. If the Debian derivatives were identical to Debian in every way, there would be no reason for them to exist. > Why do the folks on this list like that. It just turns folks away. Because bad advice is worse than no advice, it wastes time that could be better spent elsewhere. Have you never searched the Net for a solution to a problem, and wasted hours trying solutions that just don't work? > > In the great number of cases most look to Archlinux for setting up > and running packages. Why because the wiki is no nonsense and just > works in almost every case. debians wiki is woefully incomplete and > contains old out dated information which in most cases it just flat > out incorrect. Try to get it corrected and you will/must be attacked. Yes, the documentation is often out of date, and Arch documentation is usually very good. When that is the case, we generally find a way to make our own systems work, but few of us can say for sure that way will work for everyone. If it doesn't work for everyone, we are only contributing to the huge pile of incorrect or out of date documentation. Few have both the time and the range of experience to be sure we ought to be offering our own experiences for others to use. Writing documentation which carries an official Debian endorsement is a bit different from suggesting things which 'work for us' on a mailing list. > > Instead of being hostile debian should work WITH folks instead of, > "Oh you are not using stock debian, phooey on you we won't help". > Want proof, look at linuxfromscratch, the first thing they do is ask > what does Arch do. In fact I'm sure you've noticed that help is often offered to users of other systems, but tentatively and with warnings that it may not work. Gene is a special case in that he uses non-standard hardware to do things that the rest of us don't do, working in ways that we don't work. We do our best, but that's often not good enough. Being a pioneer is a lonely thing. > > Let the attacks begin, I am waiting....... > No, just an attempt to correct your impressions. -- Joe
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-01 22:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <K0eLf-4QgG-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276256 |
On 1/1/25 13:48, Joe wrote: > On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 14:58:25 +0100 > pocket@homemail.com wrote: > [...] > In fact I'm sure you've noticed that help is often offered to users of > other systems, but tentatively and with warnings that it may not work. "Gene is a special case in that he uses non-standard hardware to do things that the rest of us don't do, working in ways that we don't work. We do our best, but that's often not good enough". The hardware I use has nothing non-std in the field I work in. But 99% of you folks haven't the foggiest idea of what we get the dirt under our fingernails from, or how we "get it done". To many, the Boston Dynamics dog is magic, but I can visualize the gcode that makes it dance. I write that stuff from scratch myself. "Being a pioneer is a lonely thing." I cannot emphasize that chance phrase enough. Its lonesome enough when I have no one to talk to as I work out how to do something useful with all this tech. My long term partner succumbed to COPD 4 years ago, so yes, this is a lonely house. I'd try to get me another, but at my age (90) theres way too much baggage to deal with both for me, and any potential partners. There are no blank slates out there. Here's hoping for a better 2025 for all. Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
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| From | Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-02 14:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <K0tKh-4ZJC-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276258 |
Hi Gene, On Wed, Jan 01, 2025 at 04:46:37PM -0500, gene heskett wrote: > The hardware I use has nothing non-std in the field I work in. But 99% of > you folks haven't the foggiest idea of what we get the dirt under our > fingernails from, or how we "get it done". I'm disappointed to read that you do not consider 99% of us here to be experienced enough to advise one such as you, but then that does confuse me as to why you have quite so many questions for us anyway. It's probably because me being in the 99% I am easily confused. Can you also remind us why you do not pose these questions to the people that make the operating system you use, rather than to us who only know the most mundane things about Debian, and even then with our level of knowledge so far beneath your own. Thanks, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-03 04:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <K0G4O-58on-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276258 |
On 1/2/25 21:20, mick.crane wrote: > On 2025-01-01 21:46, gene heskett wrote: >> On 1/1/25 13:48, Joe wrote: >>> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 14:58:25 +0100 >>> pocket@homemail.com wrote: >>> [...] >>> In fact I'm sure you've noticed that help is often offered to users of >>> other systems, but tentatively and with warnings that it may not work. >> >> "Gene is a special case in that he uses non-standard hardware to do >> things that the rest of us don't do, working in ways that we don't >> work. We do our best, but that's often not good enough". > > I've no idea what gene is talking about but his questions indicate > somebody who wants to be in control of his own operating system. > Isn't that what this stuff is all about? > mick > Absolutely Mick. Don't adjust your antenna, the pix is perfect. > . Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-03 17:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <K0SIF-5nav-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276325 |
On 1/3/25 05:05, mick.crane wrote: > On 2025-01-03 02:59, gene heskett wrote: >> On 1/2/25 21:20, mick.crane wrote: >>> On 2025-01-01 21:46, gene heskett wrote: >>>> On 1/1/25 13:48, Joe wrote: >>>>> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 14:58:25 +0100 >>>>> pocket@homemail.com wrote: >>>>> [...] >>>>> In fact I'm sure you've noticed that help is often offered to >>>>> users of >>>>> other systems, but tentatively and with warnings that it may not >>>>> work. >>>> >>>> "Gene is a special case in that he uses non-standard hardware to do >>>> things that the rest of us don't do, working in ways that we don't >>>> work. We do our best, but that's often not good enough". >>> >>> I've no idea what gene is talking about but his questions indicate >>> somebody who wants to be in control of his own operating system. >>> Isn't that what this stuff is all about? >>> mick >>> >> Absolutely Mick. Don't adjust your antenna, the pix is perfect. > > I know that Torvalds discovered that mimix had been released for free, > grabbed it, and started writing a kernel and gave it away with no > encumbrances and that's what started this whole thing off. > Really it shouldn't matter what the hardware is if there's a human > readable system to get a computer to do what you want. > Myself I have my suspicions that all the nuances and complications may > have been introduced by the control freaks who do not want us free to > do our own thing. > mick > Precisely Mick. I'm for instance, running a 11x54 Sheldon metal lathe, teaching it new dances it could not do when it was made in the 1940's, and I'm doing it, starting when the rpi3b was new, just to see if I could. The rpi3b was a bit pushed but the rpi4b does it perfectly. I was the first but not the last. So instead of a 250 watt wintel system using conventional hdwe, when LinuxCNC is not running, that machine draws 14 watts with its monitor.. And I did it just to see if I could. The interface cost a bit more but has long ago paid for itself in a lower power bill. Now I'm doing the same thing to 3d printers. Putting them on a reduced power bill diet, yet still runs faster than OOTB by 10x. I am not afraid to use new tech. But like anybody else plowing new ground, learning how can be a lonely thing. Yet if somebody wants to follow, just ask. I'll share. I replaced our bathroom vanity 25 years ago, and had to change a leaking faucet yesterday. So I printed 3 wrenches to facilitate that. Worked fine, but who else would even consider that a useful plumbing wrench could be printed? That is who I am. Two of them need to be longer, but anyone interested, I'll print even better ones for $40 to replace the plastic used & give me a buck an hour for my time. About 8 hours a wrench. Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
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| From | Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-03 13:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <K0OF3-5kun-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276258 |
Hi, On Fri, Jan 03, 2025 at 02:20:19AM +0000, mick.crane wrote: > I've no idea what gene is talking about but his questions indicate somebody > who wants to be in control of his own operating system. It isn't possible to advise when his problems are complex and the operating system he wants control over is not Debian. And that's only the start of the barriers he has put in place preventing ever getting any effective assistance. Thanks, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
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| From | Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-02 03:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <K0j8d-4T4F-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276244 |
On 01/01/2025 20:58, pocket@homemail.com wrote: > In the great number of cases most look to Archlinux for setting up and > running packages. > Why because the wiki is no nonsense and just works in almost every case. > debians wiki is woefully incomplete and contains old out dated > information which in most cases it just flat out incorrect. Arch wiki is really great since it fills a lot of gaps in upstream docs. However Arch would be dead if other sort of recipes were not up to date. Significant part of wisdom collected in Arch wiki is expressed as package scripts in the case of Debian. Developers investing their time into making application working out of the box instead of documenting how to configure just installed package. > Try to get it corrected and you will/must be attacked. My experience does not match yours.
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| From | pocket@homemail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-02 03:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <K0jhT-4T88-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276266 |
> Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2025 at 9:19 PM > From: "Max Nikulin" <manikulin@gmail.com> > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org > Subject: Re: new computer arriving soon > > On 01/01/2025 20:58, pocket@homemail.com wrote: > > In the great number of cases most look to Archlinux for setting up and > > running packages. > > Why because the wiki is no nonsense and just works in almost every case. > > debians wiki is woefully incomplete and contains old out dated > > information which in most cases it just flat out incorrect. > > Arch wiki is really great since it fills a lot of gaps in upstream docs. > > However Arch would be dead if other sort of recipes were not up to date. > Significant part of wisdom collected in Arch wiki is expressed as > package scripts in the case of Debian. Developers investing their time > into making application working out of the box instead of documenting > how to configure just installed package. > > > Try to get it corrected and you will/must be attacked. > > My experience does not match yours. > > Of course it doesn't, people here are not 100% against you
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| From | Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-02 04:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <K0k4h-4TJk-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276268 |
On 02/01/2025 09:36, pocket@homemail.com wrote: >> From: "Max Nikulin" >> On 01/01/2025 20:58, pocket@homemail.com wrote: >> >>> Try to get it corrected and you will/must be attacked. >> >> My experience does not match yours. > > Of course it doesn't, people here are not 100% against you What wiki pages you tried to modify? I am curious if your edits are still in history of changes.
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| From | pocket@homemail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-02 04:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <K0knE-4TQv-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276275 |
> Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2025 at 10:29 PM > From: "Max Nikulin" <manikulin@gmail.com> > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org > Subject: Re: new computer arriving soon > > On 02/01/2025 09:36, pocket@homemail.com wrote: > >> From: "Max Nikulin" > >> On 01/01/2025 20:58, pocket@homemail.com wrote: > >> > >>> Try to get it corrected and you will/must be attacked. > >> > >> My experience does not match yours. > > > > Of course it doesn't, people here are not 100% against you > > What wiki pages you tried to modify? I am curious if your edits are > still in history of changes. > > Lookup Gene and networkmanager, I was promptly attacked and banned from posting before I could actually edit the wiki pages.
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| From | Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-02 16:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <K0vsK-510u-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276276 |
On 02/01/2025 10:41, pocket@homemail.com wrote: > Lookup Gene and networkmanager, Do you really believe it is a precise enough reference? My impression is that despite NetworkManager can easily handle his cases, he often demonstrate unmotivated aggression against NetworkManager developers. The reasons are unclear to me. Perhaps because armbian developers intentionally broke a way to configure network without NetworkManager while the same approach works fine on Debian.
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| From | pocket@homemail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-02 17:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <K0vVL-51rn-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276294 |
> Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2025 at 10:38 AM > From: "Max Nikulin" <manikulin@gmail.com> > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org > Subject: Re: new computer arriving soon > > On 02/01/2025 10:41, pocket@homemail.com wrote: > > Lookup Gene and networkmanager, > > Do you really believe it is a precise enough reference? My impression is > that despite NetworkManager can easily handle his cases, he often > demonstrate unmotivated aggression against NetworkManager developers. > The reasons are unclear to me. Perhaps because armbian developers > intentionally broke a way to configure network without NetworkManager > while the same approach works fine on Debian. > > It was debian and your talking to the one that solved his issue. BTW networkmanager as built in debain leaves a lot to be desired just like networking on debian leaves a lot to be desired. What I have found that distro like armbian fixes a lot of things that are just flat broken in debian-arm. Waiting to be attacked over this posting
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| From | Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-04 05:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <K13up-5xM2-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #276296 |
On 02/01/2025 23:05, pocket@homemail.com wrote: >> Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2025 at 10:38 AM "Max Nikulin" >> On 02/01/2025 10:41, pocket@homemail.com wrote: >>> Lookup Gene and networkmanager, >> >> Do you really believe it is a precise enough reference? My impression is >> that despite NetworkManager can easily handle his cases, he often >> demonstrate unmotivated aggression against NetworkManager developers. >> The reasons are unclear to me. Perhaps because armbian developers >> intentionally broke a way to configure network without NetworkManager >> while the same approach works fine on Debian. > > It was debian and your talking to the one that solved his issue. I mean some Chinese 3d printer: gene heskett. Re: time question, as in ntp? Fri, 1 Dec 2023 05:42:35 -0500. <https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/c10ab2f9-12d5-4f40-9da4-509d62906213@shentel.net> > BTW networkmanager as built in debain leaves a lot to be desired just like networking on debian leaves a lot to be desired. I faced once a Debian-specific issue (it had been reported already). My impression is that most limitation and bugs are due to upstream sources. For me NetworkManager is not a source of regular annoyance. > What I have found that distro like armbian fixes a lot of things that are just flat broken in debian-arm. Am I wrong that some fixes can not be included into upstream projects or into Debian due to licensing issues? > Waiting to be attacked over this posting What is the point in attempts to insult developers (posting to a user mailing list)? Doesn't Armbian heavily rely on Debian? After all, it is an important skill to move forward despite some degree of tension and disagreement. Try to be polite and constructive in communications.
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