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8 -> 9 update changing things

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  8 -> 9 update changing things "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2021-12-16 20:40 +0100
    Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-12-16 20:50 +0100
      Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2021-12-16 23:00 +0100
        Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-12-17 00:20 +0100
          Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2021-12-17 01:50 +0100
            Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2021-12-17 04:50 +0100
        Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-12-17 18:00 +0100
          Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-12-18 14:50 +0100
            Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-12-18 15:50 +0100
          Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2021-12-18 17:30 +0100
            Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-12-19 09:20 +0100
              Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2021-12-19 19:30 +0100
                Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-12-20 00:10 +0100
                  Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2021-12-20 16:10 +0100
                    Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2021-12-22 17:10 +0100
                      Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-12-22 17:40 +0100
                        Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2021-12-24 18:40 +0100
            Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-01-03 04:00 +0100
              Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2022-01-03 20:10 +0100
                Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2022-01-11 13:20 +0100
                  Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-01-11 14:20 +0100
                    Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2022-01-11 17:10 +0100
                      Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-01-11 17:30 +0100
                        Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2022-01-11 18:30 +0100
                          Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2022-01-11 18:50 +0100
                            Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2022-01-11 19:10 +0100
                      Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-01-11 17:30 +0100
                        Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2022-01-11 18:50 +0100
                          Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-01-11 19:40 +0100
                            Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things Kushal Kumaran <kushal@locationd.net> - 2022-01-12 03:30 +0100
                          Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-01-11 21:10 +0100
                            Re: 8 -> 9 update changing things "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2022-01-11 22:40 +0100

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#243186 — 8 -> 9 update changing things

I'd posted about my update a while back,  and while some folks were encouraging me to go all the way to 11 since it's the current version,  my thinking has been to see how things are working,  what's changed,  what broke,  etc. and deal with all of that before I continue on in the update process.

Some of the things I'm dealing with are:

1. An annoying blue dot showed up in my taskbar.  Right-clicking on this gave me an option to "quit",  which I would do,  and then within a few seconds it would come right back again!  I finally tracked this down to being "KDEaccessible",  which I've done nothing to invoke and don't know why the upgrade put that in there.  I solved the problem by using synaptic to uninstall the package,  since I have no use for it.

2. My virtual (older) Slackware virtualbox install is seeing a few issues.  One of them is that there is apparently a screensaver kicking in after some extended period of time.  I can't find any place where this is enabled,  to turn it off.  I wasn't using one before and don't want one now.  Suggestions?

3. Also under the Slackware virtualbox sound has quit working.  When I boot it,  I get a message that says "Host audio backend (PulseAudio) initialization has failed. Selecting the NULL audio backend with the consequence that no sound is audible."  I'm not sure what changed here either.  On the host (Debian) side,  audio works fine for,  ferinstance,  playing a youtube video.  But for some things I want to be able to play audio under Slackware as well.  I found an item in the Xfce applications menu under Multimedia that says "Pulseaudio Volume Control" and when I hit that I get a smallish popup window with no apparent content other than "Establishing connection to PulseAudio, please wait..." and then nothing happens for a good long while now.  Suggestions?

4. There is *something* kicking off around midnight local time that produces a whole lot of disk activity for a few minutes,  slowing down whatever else I might be doing at the time.  I've looked at various things like cron, at,  etc. to see if I can find something in there but no luck so far.  Suggestions?

There's probably more,  but I would like to get these things ironed out before I go chasing any more stuff,  and before I continue on the upgrade path...


-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

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#243189

On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 02:35:43PM -0500, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> I'd posted about my update a while back,  and while some folks were 
> encouraging me to go all the way to 11 since it's the current version,  
> my thinking has been to see how things are working,  what's changed,  
> what broke,  etc. and deal with all of that before I continue on in the 
> update process.
> 
> Some of the things I'm dealing with are:
> 
> 1. An annoying blue dot showed up in my taskbar.  
> Right-clicking on this gave me an option to "quit",  which I would do,  
> and then within a few seconds it would come right back again!  I finally 
> tracked this down to being "KDEaccessible",  which I've done nothing to 
> invoke and don't know why the upgrade put that in there.  I solved the 
> problem by using synaptic to uninstall the package,  since I have no use 
> for it.
> 

This one is solved for the moment, then.

> 2. My virtual (older) Slackware virtualbox install is seeing a few issues.
> One of them is that there is apparently a screensaver kicking in after 
> some extended period of time.  I can't find any place where this is 
> enabled,  to turn it off.  I wasn't using one before and don't want one 
> now.  Suggestions?
> 

XFCE desktop: if this is blanking the screen, try checking for power settings.
If it's an _actual_ screensaver with patterns - check to see what screen
saving/locking programs come by default.

> 3. Also under the Slackware virtualbox sound has quit working.  
> When I boot it,  I get a message that says "Host audio backend (PulseAudio) 
> initialization has failed. Selecting the NULL audio backend with the 
> consequence that no sound is audible."  I'm not sure what changed here 
> either.  On the host (Debian) side,  audio works fine for,  ferinstance,  
> playing a youtube video.  But for some things I want to be able to play 
> audio under Slackware as well.  I found an item in the Xfce applications 
> menu under Multimedia that says "Pulseaudio Volume Control" and when I 
> hit that I get a smallish popup window with no apparent content other 
> than "Establishing connection to PulseAudio, please wait..." and then 
> nothing happens for a good long while now.  Suggestions?
> 

How old id the virtualbox version - is there an option for audio passthrough
or similar?

> 4. There is *something* kicking off around midnight local time that 
> produces a whole lot of disk activity for a few minutes,  slowing down 
> whatever else I might be doing at the time.  I've looked at various things 
> like cron, at,  etc. to see if I can find something in there but no luck
>  so far.  Suggestions?
> 

Run top / ps -elf | less to see what processes are running and check 
what seems to be eating memory or disk?

> There's probably more,  but I would like to get these things ironed out 
> before I go chasing any more stuff,  and before I continue on the upgrade
>  path...
> 

Hi Roy,

I would seriously suggest upgrading from 9 to at least 10. You might sort 
out some of the issues but, more importantly, will be moving up to a
better supported system

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy Cater

> 
> -- 
> Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
> ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
> be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
> -
> Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
> M Dakin
> 

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#243199

On Thursday 16 December 2021 02:49:17 pm Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 02:35:43PM -0500, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> > I'd posted about my update a while back,  and while some folks were 
> > encouraging me to go all the way to 11 since it's the current version,  
> > my thinking has been to see how things are working,  what's changed,  
> > what broke,  etc. and deal with all of that before I continue on in the 
> > update process.
> > 
> > Some of the things I'm dealing with are:
> > 
> > 1. An annoying blue dot showed up in my taskbar.  
> > Right-clicking on this gave me an option to "quit",  which I would do,  
> > and then within a few seconds it would come right back again!  I finally 
> > tracked this down to being "KDEaccessible",  which I've done nothing to 
> > invoke and don't know why the upgrade put that in there.  I solved the 
> > problem by using synaptic to uninstall the package,  since I have no use 
> > for it.
> > 
> 
> This one is solved for the moment, then.

Yeah,  but why the heck did this get turned on in the first place?  Or even installed?
 
> > 2. My virtual (older) Slackware virtualbox install is seeing a few issues.
> > One of them is that there is apparently a screensaver kicking in after 
> > some extended period of time.  I can't find any place where this is 
> > enabled,  to turn it off.  I wasn't using one before and don't want one 
> > now.  Suggestions?
> 
> XFCE desktop: if this is blanking the screen, try checking for power settings.
> If it's an _actual_ screensaver with patterns - check to see what screen
> saving/locking programs come by default.

Under Slackware it's a very old version of KDE,  which I much prefer to the newer stuff.  When I select screen saver from the k menu,  it acts like it's loading for a bit and then stops,  with nothing loaded.  When I open the control center I can select screen saver in there,  under appearance and themes,  and blank screen is one of the choices besides all of the graphic ones,  but "start automatically" is NOT checked.  Under power control the only option seems to be "laptop battery" and selecting a number of different tabs tells me that there seems to be "a partial ACPI installation",  but nothing seems to be activated in there either.  I can't see anything else in there that seems applicable,  even after poking all through the k-menu.

The other thing that's changed is that this is a different (and newer) version of Virtualbox,  which in fact has been recently upgraded even further.  I've poked around in all of the options for that,  too,  and don't see anything applicable to this.  And regarding ACPI,  I have used the ACPI shutdown and it does work.  Nothing else in there about that.

> > 3. Also under the Slackware virtualbox sound has quit working.  
> > When I boot it,  I get a message that says "Host audio backend (PulseAudio) 
> > initialization has failed. Selecting the NULL audio backend with the 
> > consequence that no sound is audible."  I'm not sure what changed here 
> > either.  On the host (Debian) side,  audio works fine for,  ferinstance,  
> > playing a youtube video.  But for some things I want to be able to play 
> > audio under Slackware as well.  I found an item in the Xfce applications 
> > menu under Multimedia that says "Pulseaudio Volume Control" and when I 
> > hit that I get a smallish popup window with no apparent content other 
> > than "Establishing connection to PulseAudio, please wait..." and then 
> > nothing happens for a good long while now.  Suggestions?
> > 
> 
> How old id the virtualbox version - is there an option for audio passthrough or similar?

The version is pretty recent,  and in fact has been recently updated.  Clicking on the about option under help, I see "Version 6.1.3-r148432 (Qt5.7.1).  But both this and the above issue were happening before and after the virtualbox upgrade,  and only since the Debian upgrade,  which got me to a different version of Virtualbox than what I'd been running before.  As far as Virtualbox audio settings,  under Devices there are two options under Audio,  one for in and one for out,  and when selecting them there's a minor change in the icon displayed,  but other than that it's not clear to me what these are supposed to do.  I suppose digging into the help might be enlightening.  Except that it's not finding the file that it wants to open to display help.  :-(  Their online help pointed me at settings,  where I see that audio out and in are enabled but it also says "invalid settings detected" on that page,  and I've not a clue yet where I might find those...
 
> > 4. There is *something* kicking off around midnight local time that 
> > produces a whole lot of disk activity for a few minutes,  slowing down 
> > whatever else I might be doing at the time.  I've looked at various things 
> > like cron, at,  etc. to see if I can find something in there but no luck
> >  so far.  Suggestions?
> 
> Run top / ps -elf | less to see what processes are running and check 
> what seems to be eating memory or disk?

I haven't run top in ages.  At the moment I have KDE System Monitor running on one desktop,  but a glance at that wasn't terribly illuminating.  I'll have to try and catch it when it's happening again,  see if I can find out what it is and what's kicking it off.

It bugs me that things get changed,  for no apparent reason,  and that stuff gets added,  likewise.
 
> > There's probably more,  but I would like to get these things ironed out 
> > before I go chasing any more stuff,  and before I continue on the upgrade
> >  path...
> 
> Hi Roy,
> 
> I would seriously suggest upgrading from 9 to at least 10. You might sort out some of the issues but, more
> importantly, will be moving up to a better supported system

I'll get there.  But upgrading involves me copying a whole pile of stuff over to my server,  including some really large files that are involved in Virtualbox and the one snapshot I have,  and then figuring out a whole mess of detailed stuff that I need to do to make the upgrade happen.  Last time it was something like 3 or 4 days before I was back to anything remotely resembling normal,  and I'm not looking forward to the next time (or two).

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#243204

Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: 
> On Thursday 16 December 2021 02:49:17 pm Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > 
> > I would seriously suggest upgrading from 9 to at least 10. You might sort out some of the issues but, more
> > importantly, will be moving up to a better supported system
> 

> I'll get there.  But upgrading involves me copying a whole pile of
> stuff over to my server, including some really large files that are
> involved in Virtualbox and the one snapshot I have, and then figuring
> out a whole mess of detailed stuff that I need to do to make the
> upgrade happen.  Last time it was something like 3 or 4 days before I
> was back to anything remotely resembling normal, and I'm not looking
> forward to the next time (or two).

You don't do regular backups?

I recommend them.

I can also vouch for a couple of facts:

- every version of Debian stable has been easier to upgrade to
  than the last.

- you do about half the amount of work by upgrading from 9 to
  10 and then immediately to 11, and then figuring out what
  needs to change, as you would if you tried to figure out
  changes for each upgrade.

-dsr-

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#243213

On Thursday 16 December 2021 06:00:19 pm Dan Ritter wrote:
> Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: 
> > On Thursday 16 December 2021 02:49:17 pm Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > > 
> > > I would seriously suggest upgrading from 9 to at least 10. You might sort out some of the issues but, more
> > > importantly, will be moving up to a better supported system
> > 
> 
> > I'll get there.  But upgrading involves me copying a whole pile of
> > stuff over to my server, including some really large files that are
> > involved in Virtualbox and the one snapshot I have, and then figuring
> > out a whole mess of detailed stuff that I need to do to make the
> > upgrade happen.  Last time it was something like 3 or 4 days before I
> > was back to anything remotely resembling normal, and I'm not looking
> > forward to the next time (or two).
> 
> You don't do regular backups?
> 
> I recommend them.

Configuring Amanda is on my list,  here.
 
> I can also vouch for a couple of facts:
> 
> - every version of Debian stable has been easier to upgrade to than the last.
> 
> - you do about half the amount of work by upgrading from 9 to 10 and then immediately to 11, and then figuring out what
>   needs to change, as you would if you tried to figure out changes for each upgrade.

Yeah,  but I'm really getting to know a lot about the details of this setup in the process.  :-)

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#243215

On Thu, 16 Dec 2021 19:49:36 -0500
"Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> wrote:

> > You don't do regular backups?
> > 
> > I recommend them.  
> 
> Configuring Amanda is on my list,  here.

Good. Perhaps more to think about than you want. ...
https://charlescurley.com/blog/posts/2019/Nov/02/backups-on-linux/

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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#243223

On Thu 16 Dec 2021 at 16:56:22 (-0500), Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> On Thursday 16 December 2021 02:49:17 pm Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 02:35:43PM -0500, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> > > I'd posted about my update a while back,  and while some folks were 
> > > encouraging me to go all the way to 11 since it's the current version,  
> > > my thinking has been to see how things are working,  what's changed,  
> > > what broke,  etc. and deal with all of that before I continue on in the 
> > > update process.
> > > 
> > > Some of the things I'm dealing with are:
> > > 
> > > 1. An annoying blue dot showed up in my taskbar.  
> > > Right-clicking on this gave me an option to "quit",  which I would do,  
> > > and then within a few seconds it would come right back again!  I finally 
> > > tracked this down to being "KDEaccessible",  which I've done nothing to 
> > > invoke and don't know why the upgrade put that in there.  I solved the 
> > > problem by using synaptic to uninstall the package,  since I have no use 
> > > for it.
> > > 
> > 
> > This one is solved for the moment, then.
> 
> Yeah,  but why the heck did this get turned on in the first place?  Or even installed?

One might hypothesise that
. you run KDE, and KDE makes cvhanges that aren't always popular with
  every user.
. KDE recommends kdeaccessibility depends on kaccessible.
. KDE make changes to kaccessible for people who require and use it.
  Seems reasonable.

> > > 2. My virtual (older) Slackware virtualbox install is seeing a few issues.

> Under Slackware it's a very old version of KDE,  which I much prefer to the newer stuff.

Yes, that's what I meant above. I think there's a cohort who use TDE instead.

> It bugs me that things get changed,  for no apparent reason,  and that stuff gets added,  likewise.

The reasons are often made apparent in the packages' changelogs.

> > > There's probably more,  but I would like to get these things ironed out 
> > > before I go chasing any more stuff,  and before I continue on the upgrade
> > >  path...

This list, from four years ago, might be a good place to look for
threads talking about these problems the first time around.

But I can't help thinking of someone laying a carpet before they've
painted the ceiling, or vacuuming the floor before dusting the furniture.
Better to create just one big mess and then clear it all up in one go?

>      But upgrading involves me copying a whole pile of stuff over to my server,  including some really large files that are involved in Virtualbox and the one snapshot I have,  and then figuring out a whole mess of detailed stuff that I need to do to make the upgrade happen.

Each time you upgrade?!

> Last time it was something like 3 or 4 days before I was back to anything remotely resembling normal,  and I'm not looking forward to the next time (or two).

Cheers,
David.

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#243236

On Friday, December 17, 2021 11:53:20 AM David Wright wrote:
> On Thu 16 Dec 2021 at 16:56:22 (-0500), Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> But I can't help thinking of someone laying a carpet before they've
> painted the ceiling, or vacuuming the floor before dusting the furniture.
> Better to create just one big mess and then clear it all up in one go?
> 
> >      But upgrading involves me copying a whole pile of stuff over to my
> >      server,  including some really large files that are involved in
> >      Virtualbox and the one snapshot I have,  and then figuring out a
> >      whole mess of detailed stuff that I need to do to make the upgrade
> >      happen.
> 
> Each time you upgrade?!
> 
> > Last time it was something like 3 or 4 days before I was back to anything
> > remotely resembling normal,  and I'm not looking forward to the next
> > time (or two).

Chiming in from the peanut gallery:  My preference is to obtain a new (to me) 
system, install the version of the OS I want on it, get it working, get 
comfortable with it, then migrate my data to the new machine.

(I'm fairly good at scrounging new (to me hardware) considering the use of 
sales, rebates, and finding used stuff, often one or a few pieces at a time.)

As an alternate, if the new to me hardware was a step down from my current 
system I might (I've never done this) take an image of the existing system, 
move it to the "step down" hardware, then install the new OS on my original 
system.

I do use a KVM to switch between systems.

I have very little tolerance for not having a working system of some sort at 
all times.

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#243238

rhkramer@gmail.com wrote: 
> Chiming in from the peanut gallery:  My preference is to obtain a new (to me) 
> system, install the version of the OS I want on it, get it working, get 
> comfortable with it, then migrate my data to the new machine.

...
 
> I have very little tolerance for not having a working system of some sort at 
> all times.

You could solve this entirely by buying another disk, and
swapping boot between them as necessary.

Honestly, stable=>stable in place upgrades is one of the
crowning achievements of Debian.

(Others include the package management tools, and the sheer
number of available packages, and the security team.)

-dsr-

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#243242

On Friday 17 December 2021 11:53:20 am David Wright wrote:
> > > > Some of the things I'm dealing with are:
> > > > 
> > > > 1. An annoying blue dot showed up in my taskbar.  
> > > > Right-clicking on this gave me an option to "quit",  which I would do,  
> > > > and then within a few seconds it would come right back again!  I finally 
> > > > tracked this down to being "KDEaccessible",  which I've done nothing to 
> > > > invoke and don't know why the upgrade put that in there.  I solved the 
> > > > problem by using synaptic to uninstall the package,  since I have no use 
> > > > for it.
> > > 
> > > This one is solved for the moment, then.
> > 
> > Yeah,  but why the heck did this get turned on in the first place?  Or even installed?
> 
> One might hypothesise that
> . you run KDE, and KDE makes cvhanges that aren't always popular with
>   every user.
> . KDE recommends kdeaccessibility depends on kaccessible.
> . KDE make changes to kaccessible for people who require and use it.
>   Seems reasonable.

Yeah,  except that I don't run KDE.  I do have it installed,  to be able to access certain programs that come with it,  but my desktop environment of choice is currently Xfce.
 
> > > > 2. My virtual (older) Slackware virtualbox install is seeing a few issues.
> 
> > Under Slackware it's a very old version of KDE,  which I much prefer to the newer stuff.
> 
> Yes, that's what I meant above. I think there's a cohort who use TDE instead.

I have looked into that,  but haven't gone there (yet).  Not sure if I'm going to.

(snip)

There remains the sound issue in the virtualbox.  Could it be that Debian isn't running PulseAudio but something else?  That would account for the guest OS not being able to talk to it...



-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#243259

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sb, 18 dec 21, 11:24:34, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> 
> There remains the sound issue in the virtualbox.  Could it be that 
> Debian isn't running PulseAudio but something else?  That would 
> account for the guest OS not being able to talk to it...

As far as I'm aware there is no default sound server in Debian, it's 
whatever the corresponding Desktop Environment depends on. Usually this 
is PulseAudio, but it seems PipeWire is becoming more popular.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#243276

On Sunday 19 December 2021 03:18:46 am Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Sb, 18 dec 21, 11:24:34, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> > 
> > There remains the sound issue in the virtualbox.  Could it be that 
> > Debian isn't running PulseAudio but something else?  That would 
> > account for the guest OS not being able to talk to it...
> 
> As far as I'm aware there is no default sound server in Debian, it's 
> whatever the corresponding Desktop Environment depends on. Usually this 
> is PulseAudio, but it seems PipeWire is becoming more popular.

Well,  sound on the Debian side of things works,  as in playing youtube videos and such.  It doesn't work in the Slackware virtualbox,  which is apparently trying to connect to Pulseaudio.  Going through the Xfce application menus just now I see very little that would tell me what it is that's actually running here,  so I figure I probably need to typs something on the command line in a terminal,  but I don't know what.

One thing that shows up in the Xfce application menu under multimedia is "Pulseaudio Volume Control".  When I invoke this  a small window pops up,  with the text "Establishing connection to Pulseaudio.  Please wait" and then nothing happens,  even if I let it sit there for quite a while.

Suggestions as to where I might look for the problem?



-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

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#243278

Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: 
> On Sunday 19 December 2021 03:18:46 am Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > On Sb, 18 dec 21, 11:24:34, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> > > 
> > > There remains the sound issue in the virtualbox.  Could it be that 
> > > Debian isn't running PulseAudio but something else?  That would 
> > > account for the guest OS not being able to talk to it...
> > 
> > As far as I'm aware there is no default sound server in Debian, it's 
> > whatever the corresponding Desktop Environment depends on. Usually this 
> > is PulseAudio, but it seems PipeWire is becoming more popular.
> 
> Well,  sound on the Debian side of things works,  as in playing youtube videos and such.  It doesn't work in the Slackware virtualbox,  which is apparently trying to connect to Pulseaudio.  Going through the Xfce application menus just now I see very little that would tell me what it is that's actually running here,  so I figure I probably need to typs something on the command line in a terminal,  but I don't know what.
> 
> One thing that shows up in the Xfce application menu under multimedia is "Pulseaudio Volume Control".  When I invoke this  a small window pops up,  with the text "Establishing connection to Pulseaudio.  Please wait" and then nothing happens,  even if I let it sit there for quite a while.
> 
> Suggestions as to where I might look for the problem?

In general, that message means that even if there is a copy of
the pulseaudio daemon running, it is not running with the right
userid and the X11 session you are running in doesn't know about
it.

Run "pulseaudio --start" and try again.

-dsr-

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#243292

On Sunday 19 December 2021 05:48:12 pm Dan Ritter wrote:
> Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: 
> > On Sunday 19 December 2021 03:18:46 am Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > On Sb, 18 dec 21, 11:24:34, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > There remains the sound issue in the virtualbox.  Could it be that 
> > > > Debian isn't running PulseAudio but something else?  That would 
> > > > account for the guest OS not being able to talk to it...
> > > 
> > > As far as I'm aware there is no default sound server in Debian, it's 
> > > whatever the corresponding Desktop Environment depends on. Usually this 
> > > is PulseAudio, but it seems PipeWire is becoming more popular.
> > 
> > Well,  sound on the Debian side of things works,  as in playing youtube videos and such.  It doesn't work in the Slackware virtualbox,  which is apparently trying to connect to Pulseaudio.  Going through the Xfce application menus just now I see very little that would tell me what it is that's actually running here,  so I figure I probably need to typs something on the command line in a terminal,  but I don't know what.
> > 
> > One thing that shows up in the Xfce application menu under multimedia is "Pulseaudio Volume Control".  When I invoke this  a small window pops up,  with the text "Establishing connection to Pulseaudio.  Please wait" and then nothing happens,  even if I let it sit there for quite a while.
> > 
> > Suggestions as to where I might look for the problem?
> 
> In general, that message means that even if there is a copy of
> the pulseaudio daemon running, it is not running with the right
> userid and the X11 session you are running in doesn't know about
> it.
> 
> Run "pulseaudio --start" and try again.

That did get the volume control as invoked from the Xfce applications menu working,  all right.  Looking in the process table that I see under KDE System Monitor (what I usually use to keep track of system loading) I now see pulseaudio in there twice.  One shows the command you mention here,  and the other one doesn't,  and says "daemonize=no".  I'm guessing that's the problem,  where to fix it is another question.  Mousing over it I also see "parent=systemd" for both of them...

Looking at "man systemd",  nothing jumps out at me with regard to where I want to go from here.


-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

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#243360

On Monday 20 December 2021 10:09:56 am Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> > > Well,  sound on the Debian side of things works,  as in playing youtube videos and such.  It doesn't work in the Slackware virtualbox,  which is apparently trying to connect to Pulseaudio.  Going through the Xfce application menus just now I see very little that would tell me what it is that's actually running here,  so I figure I probably need to typs something on the command line in a terminal,  but I don't know what.
> > > 
> > > One thing that shows up in the Xfce application menu under multimedia is "Pulseaudio Volume Control".  When I invoke this  a small window pops up,  with the text "Establishing connection to Pulseaudio.  Please wait" and then nothing happens,  even if I let it sit there for quite a while.
> > > 
> > > Suggestions as to where I might look for the problem?
> > 
> > In general, that message means that even if there is a copy of
> > the pulseaudio daemon running, it is not running with the right
> > userid and the X11 session you are running in doesn't know about
> > it.
> > 
> > Run "pulseaudio --start" and try again.
> 
> That did get the volume control as invoked from the Xfce applications menu working,  all right.  Looking in the process table that I see under KDE System Monitor (what I usually use to keep track of system loading) I now see pulseaudio in there twice.  One shows the command you mention here,  and the other one doesn't,  and says "daemonize=no".  I'm guessing that's the problem,  where to fix it is another question.  Mousing over it I also see "parent=systemd" for both of them...
> 
> Looking at "man systemd",  nothing jumps out at me with regard to where I want to go from here.
 
With this having been done,  after restarting the virtualbox instance,  sound is now working there also.  What I might need to fiddle with in terms of systemd is not at all clear to me,  though.  I don't know why this would have changed with the upgrade.

Any further thoughts on this? 



-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

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#243361

Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: 
> On Monday 20 December 2021 10:09:56 am Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> > > > Suggestions as to where I might look for the problem?
> > > 
> > > In general, that message means that even if there is a copy of
> > > the pulseaudio daemon running, it is not running with the right
> > > userid and the X11 session you are running in doesn't know about
> > > it.
> > > 
> > > Run "pulseaudio --start" and try again.
> > 
> > That did get the volume control as invoked from the Xfce applications menu working,  all right.  Looking in the process table that I see under KDE System Monitor (what I usually use to keep track of system loading) I now see pulseaudio in there twice.  One shows the command you mention here,  and the other one doesn't,  and says "daemonize=no".  I'm guessing that's the problem,  where to fix it is another question.  Mousing over it I also see "parent=systemd" for both of them...
> > 
> > Looking at "man systemd",  nothing jumps out at me with regard to where I want to go from here.
>  
> With this having been done,  after restarting the virtualbox instance,  sound is now working there also.  What I might need to fiddle with in terms of systemd is not at all clear to me,  though.  I don't know why this would have changed with the upgrade.
> 
> Any further thoughts on this? 

Since it just happened... I'll say that pulseaudio is easily on
the same level of reliability as Windows 95. I decided to test
out the advertised capability of a music player as a USB DAC. As
soon as I got things plugged in, the pulseaudio daemon crashed.
After I restarted it, the pulseeffects equalizer service froze. 
After I restarted that, pulseeffects decided that it would be a
good idea to use the USB microphone as both default input and
output...

It's currently working. But I'd so much rather have systems that
didn't think that they should switch configurations
automatically, since PA is so terrible at reading my mind.

Anyway, upgrade to bullseye.

-dsr-

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#243415

On Wednesday 22 December 2021 11:21:47 am Dan Ritter wrote:
> Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote: 
> > On Monday 20 December 2021 10:09:56 am Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> > > > > Suggestions as to where I might look for the problem?
> > > > 
> > > > In general, that message means that even if there is a copy of
> > > > the pulseaudio daemon running, it is not running with the right
> > > > userid and the X11 session you are running in doesn't know about
> > > > it.
> > > > 
> > > > Run "pulseaudio --start" and try again.
> > > 
> > > That did get the volume control as invoked from the Xfce applications menu working,  all right.  Looking in the process table that I see under KDE System Monitor (what I usually use to keep track of system loading) I now see pulseaudio in there twice.  One shows the command you mention here,  and the other one doesn't,  and says "daemonize=no".  I'm guessing that's the problem,  where to fix it is another question.  Mousing over it I also see "parent=systemd" for both of them...
> > > 
> > > Looking at "man systemd",  nothing jumps out at me with regard to where I want to go from here.

?

> > With this having been done,  after restarting the virtualbox instance,  sound is now working there also.  What I might need to fiddle with in terms of systemd is not at all clear to me,  though.  I don't know why this would have changed with the upgrade.

Yes,  it's things changing when I upgrade that bother me about all of this...

> > Any further thoughts on this? 
> 
> Since it just happened... I'll say that pulseaudio is easily on
> the same level of reliability as Windows 95. I decided to test
> out the advertised capability of a music player as a USB DAC. As
> soon as I got things plugged in, the pulseaudio daemon crashed.
> After I restarted it, the pulseeffects equalizer service froze. 
> After I restarted that, pulseeffects decided that it would be a
> good idea to use the USB microphone as both default input and
> output...

I don't know enough about what you're dealing with there to comment on this.
 
> It's currently working. But I'd so much rather have systems that
> didn't think that they should switch configurations
> automatically, since PA is so terrible at reading my mind.
> 
> Anyway, upgrade to bullseye.

I'll get there.  But before I continue with upgrades,  I intend to fix what's broken,  and maybe trim some of the fat out of the system as it stands,  so I don't end up having to download and upgrade stuff I don't use or don't want.

In my initial install,  I selected multiple desktop environments,  so I could try them out.  While I was fine with real early versions of KDE,  I don't like where they've gone with it so I don't use it as a desktop,  though I do use a few of the utilities.  I seem to be seeing bits of stuff running,  though,  that shouldn't be.  And also from some of the other choices.  I need to clean that up a bit,  I think,  in addition to the above...

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

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#243607

On Sat 18 Dec 2021 at 11:24:34 (-0500), Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> On Friday 17 December 2021 11:53:20 am David Wright wrote:
> > > > > Some of the things I'm dealing with are:
> > > > > 
> > > > > 1. An annoying blue dot showed up in my taskbar.  
> > > > > Right-clicking on this gave me an option to "quit",  which I would do,  
> > > > > and then within a few seconds it would come right back again!  I finally 
> > > > > tracked this down to being "KDEaccessible",  which I've done nothing to 
> > > > > invoke and don't know why the upgrade put that in there.  I solved the 
> > > > > problem by using synaptic to uninstall the package,  since I have no use 
> > > > > for it.
> > > > 
> > > > This one is solved for the moment, then.
> > > 
> > > Yeah,  but why the heck did this get turned on in the first place?  Or even installed?
> > 
> > One might hypothesise that
> > . you run KDE, and KDE makes cvhanges that aren't always popular with
> >   every user.
> > . KDE recommends kdeaccessibility depends on kaccessible.
> > . KDE make changes to kaccessible for people who require and use it.
> >   Seems reasonable.
> 
> Yeah,  except that I don't run KDE.  I do have it installed,  to be able to access certain programs that come with it,  but my desktop environment of choice is currently Xfce.

My understanding is that when you install a package like KDE,
there's an assumption that you'll probably want to run it, and
so it configures the system on that basis.

I should point out that kdeaccessibility is only recommended by
kde-full and task-kde-desktop. I see nothing that even recommends
kde-full. The full live-task-kde obviously depends on
task-kde-desktop, but I assume you didn't install that; only
education-desktop-kde recommends task-kde-desktop. So I can't
see why you would need to install anything that pulled in
kdeaccessibility if you're just running KDE programs.

> > > > > 2. My virtual (older) Slackware virtualbox install is seeing a few issues.
> > 
> > > Under Slackware it's a very old version of KDE,  which I much prefer to the newer stuff.
> > 
> > Yes, that's what I meant above. I think there's a cohort who use TDE instead.
> 
> I have looked into that,  but haven't gone there (yet).  Not sure if I'm going to.
> 
> (snip)
> 
> There remains the sound issue in the virtualbox.  Could it be that Debian isn't running PulseAudio but something else?  That would account for the guest OS not being able to talk to it...

No idea; you'd have to check this for yourself. ISTR there may be
issues with pulseaudio if it's running as a system daemon rather
than for the logged-in user, but I don't know the details.

Cheers,
David.

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#243636

On Sunday 02 January 2022 09:56:14 pm David Wright wrote:
> On Sat 18 Dec 2021 at 11:24:34 (-0500), Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> > On Friday 17 December 2021 11:53:20 am David Wright wrote:
> > Yeah,  except that I don't run KDE.  I do have it installed,  to be able to access certain programs that come with it,  but my desktop environment of choice is currently Xfce.
> 
> My understanding is that when you install a package like KDE,
> there's an assumption that you'll probably want to run it, and
> so it configures the system on that basis.

When I first installed I selected multiple different desktop environments,  so I could try them out.  I did not expect that ones that I was not running would have any effect in the one that I was running...
 
(snip)
> > There remains the sound issue in the virtualbox.  Could it be that Debian isn't running PulseAudio but something else?  That would account for the guest OS not being able to talk to it...
> 
> No idea; you'd have to check this for yourself. ISTR there may be
> issues with pulseaudio if it's running as a system daemon rather
> than for the logged-in user, but I don't know the details.

Running pulseaudio --start fixed that problem,  but now I show two instances of it runninng.

In the one that was running to start with,  the command line shown to me in system monitor includes "daemonize=no".  I would guess that to be the problem,  but why is that in there?  And where do I fix it?  I also see "parent systemd" and after a bit of poking around in there I'm rather thoroughly confused,  not at all sure where I'd have to fix this.  Although /usr/lib/systemd/user/pulseaudioi.service seems pertinent.  Why would that have "daemonize=no" in there?

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

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#243856

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Lu, 03 ian 22, 14:02:05, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> 
> Running pulseaudio --start fixed that problem,  but now I show two instances of it runninng.
> 
> In the one that was running to start with,  the command line shown to 
> me in system monitor includes "daemonize=no".  I would guess that to 
> be the problem,  but why is that in there?  And where do I fix it?  I 
> also see "parent systemd" and after a bit of poking around in there 
> I'm rather thoroughly confused,  not at all sure where I'd have to fix 
> this.  Although /usr/lib/systemd/user/pulseaudioi.service seems 
> pertinent.  Why would that have "daemonize=no" in there?

In general it's recommended programs rely on systemd for running in 
background instead of implementing their own code for that (re-inventing 
the wheel and all that).

Of course, some programs (including PulseAudio) predate systemd and/or 
need to run on systems / platforms where systemd (or something 
compatible) is not even available, so they will continue to support both 
methods.

Hope this explains,
Andrei
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