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foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware

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  foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware <loushanguan2015@sina.com> - 2021-09-20 08:30 +0200
    Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-09-20 09:30 +0200
      Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware lou <loushanguan2015@sina.com> - 2021-09-20 11:10 +0200
        Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware Stanislav Vlasov <stanislav.v.v@gmail.com> - 2021-09-20 11:50 +0200
          Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware lou <loushanguan2015@sina.com> - 2021-09-20 13:00 +0200
            Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-09-20 13:20 +0200
            Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2021-09-20 13:30 +0200
            Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-09-20 21:30 +0200
              Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-09-21 17:10 +0200
                Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-09-21 17:50 +0200
                Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-09-21 21:00 +0200
                Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2021-09-21 21:30 +0200
                  Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-09-21 21:50 +0200
                    Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware lou <loushanguan2015@sina.com> - 2021-09-22 02:20 +0200
                      Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-09-22 07:10 +0200
                      Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-09-22 08:40 +0200
                        Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware lou <loushanguan2015@sina.com> - 2021-09-24 10:30 +0200
                          Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-09-24 14:10 +0200
                            Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-09-24 15:50 +0200
                              Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-09-24 16:10 +0200
                    Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2021-09-22 07:40 +0200
            Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-09-20 22:30 +0200
      Message display settings by character encoding (was Re: foolish problem  with installer: can't load firmware) The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-09-20 13:20 +0200
        Re: Message display settings by character encoding (was Re: foolish  problem with installer: can't load firmware) Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-09-20 13:40 +0200
        Re: Message display settings by character encoding (was Re: foolish  problem with installer: can't load firmware) David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-09-20 21:20 +0200
        Re: Message display settings by character encoding (was Re: foolish  problem with installer: can't load firmware) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-09-21 14:40 +0200

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#240255

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 20:49:20 +0100
piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> wrote:

Hello piorunz,

>On 21/09/2021 16:56, Brad Rogers wrote:
>> Finally, let us not forget that even the official installers seek to
>> install non-free blobs to get certain hardware working where
>> necessary. The installation inevitably stalls at that point.  Hardly
>> a good first impression.  
>Many Linux distributions are made that way. After all, we want to come

Ah, sorry:  It was not my intention to imply that Debian is unique in
that regard.

However, given that......

>away from closed source software. Debian tries to avoid all closed
>source and/or non-free software, as per The Debian Free Software

.....perhaps my comment regarding 'a good first impression' can be seen
in the light in which it was meant.

Personally, I'm not too fussed the blobs and non-free stuff, but I can
understand some people's reluctance to use 'black box' software.  Without
them, there wouldn't be as much free software as we all currently enjoy.
All power to them.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )      "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
        / _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
Just stop and take a second
U & Ur Hand - P!nk

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#240210

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 06:48:03AM -0400, lou wrote:
> 
> On 9/20/21 5:38 AM, Stanislav Vlasov wrote:
> > 2021-09-20 14:04 GMT+05:00, lou <loushanguan2015@sina.com>:
> > > installer using hard disk method can read firmware in ext3 partition
> > May you take installer with integrated firmware?
> > 
> > https://cdimage.debian.org/images/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/
> > 
> 
> Thanks, but it's unofficial, and it makes me feel uneasy
> 
> fedora includes firmware, and i think they are serious about open source
> 
> why debian can't do the same?
> 

The reason it's unofficial is because it includes non-free firmware. Firmware
we can distribute - but can't fix when it goes wrong, can't provide source
for. Non-free is not part of Debian for just this reason.

That having been said: the image is prepared by Debian developers, in the
same way as the official image (which includes no non-free firmware) and
is a convenience to our users - our priorities are our users and Free 
software.

if you can install using only the official image - especially when using
a wired interface rather than WiFi, say - you can then install the firmware
you need to get wifi working or whatever. The problem has come most recently
where firmware is needed not only for wifi and some graphics cards but also
for sound with some Intel chipsets.

The goal for Fedora may be different - but I'm fairly sure they _don't_ ship
firmware that Debian would consider non-free either.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater

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#240196 — Message display settings by character encoding (was Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware)

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On 2021-09-20 at 03:21, David Christensen wrote:

> Your message displays strangely on Thunderbird (oversized Courier 
> font?).

In my case, it displays with unusually-small characters and what looks
like a different font, not unusually large ones.

> Please verify that your e-mail client is configured to compose 
> messages in plain text (e.g. ASCII), not HTML.

In this case, it has nothing to do with plain text vs. HTML.

If you look at View -> Character Encoding (at least in my older
Thunderbird, although I have no reason to expect it to have moved in
newer ones), you'll see that the message in question is encoded with the
character set "Chinese, Simplified". (For that matter, so is your reply
- although not Stanislav's later reply, or the OP's reply to that.)

Thunderbird can be - and, by default, is - configured to use different
font settings for messages with different character encodings, on the
principle that the font preferred for e.g. English may not have the
glyphs needed for e.g. Chinese. Those different settings can include
different sizes. (Again in my older Thunderbird, these settings are
under Edit -> Preference -> Display -> Formatting -> Advanced.)

In my own case, my default font configuration is Unicode, with a point
size of 16 - but my Chinese, Simplified configuration has a point size
of 14 (although with the exact same specification for what fonts to
use). So that neatly explains why I see smaller characters in those
messages.

Given the OP's E-mail address, it's not surprising that he(?) may have a
mail client configured for Chinese composition by default, and not have
realized that it may make a difference to how the message appears when
written in English.


The upshot of which is: if you want to minimize experiencing this sort
of mismatch, you should be able to adjust your per-character-set font
settings to be more mutually consistent.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

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#240198 — Re: Message display settings by character encoding (was Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware)

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 07:16:27AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2021-09-20 at 03:21, David Christensen wrote:
> 
> > Your message displays strangely on Thunderbird (oversized Courier 
> > font?).
> 
> In my case, it displays with unusually-small characters and what looks
> like a different font, not unusually large ones.

The original mail consists of two base64-encoded blobs of content.
If you "base64 -d" the second blob, it's not even a fully proper HTML
document.  There are no initial <html> headers or anything.  It simply
begins with some lowercase English text, then <br><div> and another
line of text, </div><div> and a third line, and so on.

How your HTML-based mail user agent responds to that will depend on
the decisions made by its authors.

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#240208 — Re: Message display settings by character encoding (was Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware)

On 9/20/21 4:16 AM, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2021-09-20 at 03:21, David Christensen wrote:
> 
>> Your message displays strangely on Thunderbird (oversized Courier
>> font?).
> 
> In my case, it displays with unusually-small characters and what looks
> like a different font, not unusually large ones.
> 
>> Please verify that your e-mail client is configured to compose
>> messages in plain text (e.g. ASCII), not HTML.
> 
> In this case, it has nothing to do with plain text vs. HTML.
> 
> If you look at View -> Character Encoding (at least in my older
> Thunderbird, although I have no reason to expect it to have moved in
> newer ones), you'll see that the message in question is encoded with the
> character set "Chinese, Simplified". 


My Thunderbird 78.13.0 (64-bit) -> View -> Character Encoding initially 
displayed nothing.  I can change the Character Encoding and the message 
font and/or size changes.  If I select a different message and then come 
back to the original message, the oversize Courier is there again and 
the Character Encoding is whatever I last set.  Goofy.


View -> Message Source:

<snip>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	 boundary="=-sinamail_alt_4cb0d222e6a1010379ef9ce8d2033c03"
<snip>

--=-sinamail_alt_4cb0d222e6a1010379ef9ce8d2033c03
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=GBK
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline

<snip>

--=-sinamail_alt_4cb0d222e6a1010379ef9ce8d2033c03
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=GBK
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline

<snip>

--=-sinamail_alt_4cb0d222e6a1010379ef9ce8d2033c03--


STFW "GBK" explains your "Simplified Chinese" observation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBK_(character_encoding)


> (For that matter, so is your reply

Agreed; and not what I wanted:

View -> Message Source:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gbk; format=flowed


> - although not Stanislav's later reply, or the OP's reply to that.)

View -> Message Source:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"


It looks like he did Reply List -> Options -> Text Encoding -> Unicode 
to reset the encoding to UTF-8 (?).  I will need to remember that trick.


> Thunderbird can be - and, by default, is - configured to use different
> font settings for messages with different character encodings, on the
> principle that the font preferred for e.g. English may not have the
> glyphs needed for e.g. Chinese. Those different settings can include
> different sizes. (Again in my older Thunderbird, these settings are
> under Edit -> Preference -> Display -> Formatting -> Advanced.)


Edit -> Preferences -> Language & Appearance -> Advanced -> Fonts for -> 
Simplified Chinese:

Monospace	-> Default (DejaVu Sans Mono)
Size		-> 16


That explains what I am seeing.


> In my own case, my default font configuration is Unicode, with a point
> size of 16 - but my Chinese, Simplified configuration has a point size
> of 14 (although with the exact same specification for what fonts to
> use). So that neatly explains why I see smaller characters in those
> messages.
> 
> Given the OP's E-mail address, it's not surprising that he(?) may have a
> mail client configured for Chinese composition by default, and not have
> realized that it may make a difference to how the message appears when
> written in English.
> 
> 
> The upshot of which is: if you want to minimize experiencing this sort
> of mismatch, you should be able to adjust your per-character-set font
> settings to be more mutually consistent.


I will leave the settings at default -- to provide me with a clue when I 
am looking at a message that is not plaintext UTF-8.


Thanks for the explanation.  :-)


David

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#240220 — Re: Message display settings by character encoding (was Re: foolish problem with installer: can't load firmware)

On 2021-09-20, The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> On 2021-09-20 at 03:21, David Christensen wrote:
>
>> Your message displays strangely on Thunderbird (oversized Courier=20
>> font?).
>
> In my case, it displays with unusually-small characters and what looks
> like a different font, not unusually large ones.
>

I only get a wall of gibberish, presumably because I can't translate
base 64.

 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

Of course, I'm using a venerable NEWS client from the Pleistocene.

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