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Groups > linux.debian.user > #236444 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2021-06-25 15:50 +0200 |
| Last post | 2021-07-01 01:10 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 83 — 20 participants |
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Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-25 15:50 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-06-25 16:00 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-25 16:50 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-06-25 23:10 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-26 11:50 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-06-26 19:40 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-26 20:40 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-30 15:50 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-06-30 20:50 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-07-01 15:10 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-01 17:30 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-02 19:50 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-07-01 18:50 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-01 22:10 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-07-01 22:40 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-02 00:00 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-07-02 12:00 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-02 12:20 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-02 21:10 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-07-01 22:20 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-01 00:20 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-06-27 09:40 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-27 10:40 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Peter Ehlert <pb21a@sdi-baja.com> - 2021-06-27 16:40 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-27 16:40 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-27 17:40 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Peter Ehlert <pb21a@sdi-baja.com> - 2021-06-27 17:40 +0200
Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-27 19:40 +0200
X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] "Rick Thomas" <rick.thomas@pobox.com> - 2021-06-29 04:40 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 04:50 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-29 05:20 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 11:00 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-30 10:30 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-06-29 11:50 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 18:20 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-06-29 18:40 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-29 19:30 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 20:10 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-29 20:50 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-06-29 21:00 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Lucas Castro <lucas@gnuabordo.com.br> - 2021-06-29 21:10 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 22:50 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-29 23:00 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 23:10 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-30 10:40 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-30 11:30 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-06-30 12:00 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-07-01 01:40 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-06-30 12:00 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-30 15:20 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-06-30 15:40 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-30 16:40 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-30 12:00 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-29 22:50 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-30 12:00 +0200
Mailing list behaviour, words and that [was: Re: X server ...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-30 14:50 +0200
Re: Mailing list behaviour, words and that [was: Re: X server ...] Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2021-06-30 15:00 +0200
Re: Mailing list behaviour, words and that [was: Re: X server ...] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-30 15:40 +0200
Re: Mailing list behaviour, words and that [was: Re: X server ...] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-30 20:20 +0200
Re: Mailing list behaviour, words and that [was: Re: X server ...] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-30 20:50 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-30 15:40 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-30 16:40 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-30 17:10 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-30 17:40 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-30 17:50 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-06-30 18:10 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-30 18:40 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-06-30 20:30 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-30 21:30 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-07-01 07:20 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-07-01 11:30 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] "Thompson, Brian" <brian@hashvault.io> - 2021-06-30 18:10 +0200
Re: Artifical Intellignce ( was : X something) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-06-30 19:00 +0200
Re: Artifical Intellignce ( was : X something) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-30 19:20 +0200
[OT, maybe] Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-06-30 22:20 +0200
Re: [OT, maybe] Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-06-30 22:30 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-07-01 02:00 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-07-01 02:00 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-07-01 06:40 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] - continue Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-07-01 07:00 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-06-30 22:10 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-30 20:00 +0200
Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-01 01:10 +0200
Page 3 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5 Next page →
| From | Lucas Castro <lucas@gnuabordo.com.br> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-29 21:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <Cvrho-Hz-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236627 |
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Jesus h Em 29 de junho de 2021 15:58:49 BRT, "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> escreveu: >On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 02:43:28PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote: >> > On 2021-06-29 1:27 p.m., Greg Wooledge wrote: >> > > On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 04:33:50PM +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater >wrote: >> > >> ssh -Y is similar to ssh -X but does some authentication - yuu >don't have >> > >> to use xhost+ or similar. >> > > >> > > You don't use xhost with ssh -X, either. At least, not >explicitly. >> > > ssh takes care of that for you. >> > > >> > > In fact, on Debian, ssh -X and ssh -Y do exactly the same thing, >due >> > > to changes that Debian made. This is documented in the ssh(1) >man page. >> > > >> > > If you've been using "xhost +" together with "ssh -X", you've >been doing >> > > it wrong (and *dramatically* destroying all your network >security) all >> > > along. >> >> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 02:05:18PM -0400, Polyna-Maude >Racicot-Summerside wrote: >> > What I stated was pretty simple : >> >> That was the fucking point. >> > >Greg: If it helps, I get that - and have always got it. I hadn't >appreciated >that - for Debian - ssh -X and ssh -Y are essentially identical. Thanks >for the pointer. > >Sorry to have created any confusion. > >It's _nearly_ July 1st. Tomorrow sometime I'll be getting round to >reposting >the debian-user mailing list FAQ. Please, no rude words, especially the >f-ing >word? As frustrating as any of us can be, it doesn't add merit to >argument. >Email is already hard enugh to understand and appreciate: there are >folk >here where English is a non-native language and swear words don't help >carry meaning. > > >All the very best to you both - and everybody reading and using this >list >and it's archives. > >Andy Cater > >> >> Now, if you want to advocate that people should use xhost + because >> that's how you learned things back in the early 1990s, that's your >right, >> but I hope you will at least point out how INCREDIBLY INSECURE this >is, >> and that it should only be done on an isolated private network, and >only >> for educational purposes, never for actual work. >> >> Even then, you wouldn't combine it with ssh -X. xhost + and manually >> overriding DISPLAY bypasses the ssh encryption layer entirely. It >also >> involves starting the X server with a non-default option, so it's >quite >> a lot more work than using ssh -X. Which is good. We wouldn't want >the >> horribly broken way to be the easy way. >> -- Enviado de meu dispositivo Android com K-9 mail. Desculpe-me pela brevidade.
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-29 22:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <CvsQ9-1rv-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236626 |
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Hi, >> that's how you learned things back in the early 1990s, that's your right, >> but I hope you will at least point out how INCREDIBLY INSECURE this is, > > I never said in no situation something like "use xhost +". > The same way as I never said to unblock all the ports on your router or > to let everyone have access to *sudo* on a server. I've read back the whole series of message and no one ever said anything that is somewhat possible to be interpreted as using xhost +x with SSH -X Maybe you shall come down a bit. There's no need for this type of bad word and anger on a happy Debian mailing list. For myself, I wouldn't be open to taking advice from someone who can't express himself without the use of bad manners and swearing word. This only show a lack of self-control and impulsiveness. Or a profound desire to *be the best*. -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-29 23:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <CvsZR-1uS-21@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236631 |
On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 04:46:48PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > I've read back the whole series of message and no one ever said anything > that is somewhat possible to be interpreted as > using xhost +x with SSH -X https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/06/msg00900.html
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-29 23:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <Cvt9v-1Np-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236634 |
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Hi my friend, On 2021-06-29 4:58 p.m., Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 04:46:48PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: >> I've read back the whole series of message and no one ever said anything >> that is somewhat possible to be interpreted as >> using xhost +x with SSH -X > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/06/msg00900.html > I know, but does this justify being rude with people ? I'm also sure that people are smart enough to read what does options do and not only type them dumbly because some "dude" say so on a mailing list. Does because you have a fantastic memory for all the boring computer stuff make you a god or some type of person that is not subject to normal rules of manner in society ? You must be very tired at night, searching thru all the message and correcting everything you see. I salute you ! I can only hope that one day someone will knock you off with a shovel in the face because you said something wrong. This will be a great day and you'll get back what you serve to others. This is a figure of speech, we all agree. A great man doesn't only try to find mistake others do, he also act with decency and respect. Cheers and enjoy life. -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-30 10:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <CvDVf-893-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236635 |
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On Ma, 29 iun 21, 17:08:16, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > > I can only hope that one day someone will knock you off with a shovel in > the face because you said something wrong. This will be a great day and > you'll get back what you serve to others. Seriously? > This is a figure of speech, we all agree. No, I don't agree. Please don't speak for others. As far as I'm concerned it's just inappropriate -- regardless of whether the other party also stepped out of line -- and you claiming it's "just" a figure of speech doesn't make it better. > A great man doesn't only try to find mistake others do, he also act with > decency and respect. Hmm... Kind regards, Andrei -- Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul in this world -- and never will. (Mark Twain)
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-30 11:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <CvEHD-dK-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236649 |
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Hi, On 2021-06-30 4:32 a.m., Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Ma, 29 iun 21, 17:08:16, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: >> >> I can only hope that one day someone will knock you off with a shovel in >> the face because you said something wrong. This will be a great day and >> you'll get back what you serve to others. > > Seriously? > Yes, whatever great idea you have, even if others are wrong in what they say. Nothing justify being rude and lacking respect. I never used any swearing word on this mailing list and it won't be part in any of my arguments. >> This is a figure of speech, we all agree. > > No, I don't agree. Please don't speak for others. > > As far as I'm concerned it's just inappropriate -- regardless of whether > the other party also stepped out of line -- and you claiming it's "just" > a figure of speech doesn't make it better. > >> A great man doesn't only try to find mistake others do, he also act with >> decency and respect. > > Hmm... > Sometime you have the best software solution in the world but the community around it make people go away. Sadly, it's what I'm seeing here and this is far from what I expected. Even if "Greg's" right about unsafe solution, this doesn't mean that all the solutions will be unsafe. If I run my network behind a firewall and don't allow outside connection then I can use xhost + or unblock all the port on my machine, if I feel like it. Don't get messed up, computer science ain't physic or chemistry. It's all a question of personal choice, of the will to take risk, of our own priority, etc. It's far from an exact science (if we can call this a science). It's closer to liberal arts than to hard science like chemistry, physics or mathematics. So if someone think he's got it all right then maybe it's because the ego's too big. You can run your box the way you want, as long it gives you what you like. And I'll give you a example... I've heard many and many more time people telling me it was "not the way to do" by creating many different partitions for my hard drive, having a /tmp, /usr/local, /home, /var, /tmp, etc. Maybe for them it's wrong but for me, it does the job and even prevent some problem when my GF fill up her laptop's home partition. And yes, sometime I did use xhost + because it was easy to do when running over our home network. Even more that we have a computer that serve as a router and filter everything, there's was nearly no risk that someone could "call-in" and connect to the X server from the outside. I'll tell you a little story about the "Oh it's so great computer and what we do with them". Around 2018 I had to go see a conference on Elasticsearch and Logstash during the IETF 2018 meeting that was in Montreal. Everyone was amazed with that "solution" being able to give you exact logs for the last month and doing "day average" after this. All automatic ! WoW they said... Really ? In 1982 my father in-law did his master degree in geophysics, analysis of waveform. He developed an algorithm that does an average over long period but keep individual values for short periods. This way you get both the trends and important individual variation. This was somewhat the same algorithm than LogStash was doing.... So yes, I get pretty upset when I see people thinking they are so great because they think they found a fault in someone's explanation and just want to show they are so great by pointing it out. There's nothing of a genius in finding people's error. But what's a genius is to use our knowledge in context and express it wit consideration to other's context. Maybe if he'd have asked "is this for the purpose of learning" before acting out then he would have received the answer "yes". Because all this started by giving some way of using X11 that will allow the end-user to also learn how the inner work does. Because if you use ssh -X then yes it will work most of the time but you won't get the knowledge of how it does. This will make you clueless the day there's a small glitch in ssh. Because in some way, ssh -X does two thing : setup the DISPLAY variable redirect some port so that the session appears local to the client. I'm ain't the one who said "this is f****cking stupid" or a sentence of this kind. So sorry for all those virgin ears who dislike my figure of speech. Like my dad says, sometime a good kick in the butt give you much more to learn than reading two books. This is now over for myself. > > Kind regards, > Andrei > Cheer, Sincerely, -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-30 12:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <CvFaG-qC-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236651 |
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On 2021-06-30 at 05:23, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > Hi, > > On 2021-06-30 4:32 a.m., Andrei POPESCU wrote: > >> On Ma, 29 iun 21, 17:08:16, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: >> >>> I can only hope that one day someone will knock you off with a >>> shovel in the face because you said something wrong. This will be >>> a great day and you'll get back what you serve to others. >> >> Seriously? >> > Yes, whatever great idea you have, even if others are wrong in what > they say. Nothing justify being rude and lacking respect. > > I never used any swearing word on this mailing list and it won't be > part in any of my arguments. It's possible that there may be a miscommunication / confusion here. At least according to my understanding, the idiom "to knock [person] off" is commonly understood as a euphemism for "to murder [person]". Thus, when you wrote "I can only hope that someone will knock you off with a shovel in the face", that may have been read as "I can only hope that someone one day murders you by smashing your face in with a shovel". This is, clearly, a *far greater* verbal escalation than merely using foul language; I suspect, though I am not certain, that it would be seen as grounds for immediate banning from the mailing list. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
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| From | Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-01 01:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <CvRYd-8aW-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236653 |
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On Mi, 30 iun 21, 05:57:19, The Wanderer wrote: > On 2021-06-30 at 05:23, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > > > > On 2021-06-30 4:32 a.m., Andrei POPESCU wrote: > > > >> On Ma, 29 iun 21, 17:08:16, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > >> > >>> I can only hope that one day someone will knock you off with a > >>> shovel in the face because you said something wrong. This will be > >>> a great day and you'll get back what you serve to others. > >> > >> Seriously? > >> > > Yes, whatever great idea you have, even if others are wrong in what > > they say. Nothing justify being rude and lacking respect. > > > > I never used any swearing word on this mailing list and it won't be > > part in any of my arguments. > > It's possible that there may be a miscommunication / confusion here. As far as I'm concerned the literal interpretation is already inappropriate, regardless of the language. > At least according to my understanding, the idiom "to knock [person] > off" is commonly understood as a euphemism for "to murder [person]". That just makes it worse (though it's the first time I hear about it). Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
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| From | The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-30 12:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <CvFaH-qC-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236651 |
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On 2021-06-30 at 05:23, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > Hi, > > On 2021-06-30 4:32 a.m., Andrei POPESCU wrote: > >> On Ma, 29 iun 21, 17:08:16, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: >> >>> I can only hope that one day someone will knock you off with a >>> shovel in the face because you said something wrong. This will be >>> a great day and you'll get back what you serve to others. >> >> Seriously? >> > Yes, whatever great idea you have, even if others are wrong in what > they say. Nothing justify being rude and lacking respect. > > I never used any swearing word on this mailing list and it won't be > part in any of my arguments. It's possible that there may be a miscommunication / confusion here. At least according to my understanding, the idiom "to knock [person] off" is commonly understood as a euphemism for "to murder [person]". Thus, when you wrote "I can only hope that someone will knock you off with a shovel in the face", that may have been read as "I can only hope that someone one day murders you by smashing your face in with a shovel". This is, clearly, a *far greater* verbal escalation than merely using foul language; I suspect, though I am not certain, that it would be seen as grounds for immediate banning from the mailing list. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-30 15:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <CvIid-2ox-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236655 |
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Hi, On 2021-06-30 5:57 a.m., The Wanderer wrote: > On 2021-06-30 at 05:23, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> On 2021-06-30 4:32 a.m., Andrei POPESCU wrote: >> >>> On Ma, 29 iun 21, 17:08:16, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: >>> >>>> I can only hope that one day someone will knock you off with a >>>> shovel in the face because you said something wrong. This will be >>>> a great day and you'll get back what you serve to others. >>> >>> Seriously? >>> >> Yes, whatever great idea you have, even if others are wrong in what >> they say. Nothing justify being rude and lacking respect. >> >> I never used any swearing word on this mailing list and it won't be >> part in any of my arguments. > > It's possible that there may be a miscommunication / confusion here. > > At least according to my understanding, the idiom "to knock [person] > off" is commonly understood as a euphemism for "to murder [person]". > I didn't have in mind any type of murder or long lasting damage of any soft. When I said, to "Knock you off with a shovel in the face", I meant a kind of "Wake up call". But now, as you say it, and as English is somewhat my first language, even if it's more my second now, I do remember as a kid / teenager that I would have interpreted that as "To be turned off". I was a somewhat literal translation from the french where you can say "Le réveiller à coup de pelle dans la face" which mean to wake someone up with a shovel in the face. So take it as : A kick in the ass. A kick in the but. A slap in the face. A physical wake up call. ... Something that will shake you enough that you get the time to think. Something like... Hope you understand before you end up 6 month on a hospital bed so you can get your mind straight. > Thus, when you wrote "I can only hope that someone will knock you off > with a shovel in the face", that may have been read as "I can only hope > that someone one day murders you by smashing your face in with a > shovel". > > This is, clearly, a *far greater* verbal escalation than merely using > foul language; I suspect, though I am not certain, that it would be seen > as grounds for immediate banning from the mailing list. > If it is, then be it. Which would be somewhat hard to understand has you seem to accept mail coming from any server and even user not on the mailing list. Anyway, I kind of believe that this is the type of game played around here. Sadly, about a month ago, after I asked a question and got a bunch of stupid answer like : 1. If you are using Gnome then Gnome is your problem. (ha ha ha) 2. Your projects are redundant and useless so give the rack you rent for Debian usage 3. And those similar stupidity like your good friend Greg said, that is, we know what's good. Our way is the only way that's good. A user suggested that I look over at Devuan, because as he said, there's not much of those kind of foul play and crying game on Devuan. I didn't went further because I was happy with the actuel SystemD. But this reminded me all those fork that happens only because people get stubborn with their idea and take computing for a hard science like physics and mathematics, with those rigid rules. And that is not the case... As a basic rule of computing is, if it work for you then it's good. So as you are the almighty that now believe I shall be banned. Wish you good luck. I'll go back like all those ones who take and don't give. And will surely abstain from sharing my opinions or helping others in what I may have knowledge. -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-30 15:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <CvIBz-2uJ-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236659 |
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On 2021-06-30 at 09:16, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > Hi, > > On 2021-06-30 5:57 a.m., The Wanderer wrote: > >> On 2021-06-30 at 05:23, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: >>> Yes, whatever great idea you have, even if others are wrong in >>> what they say. Nothing justify being rude and lacking respect. >>> >>> I never used any swearing word on this mailing list and it won't >>> be part in any of my arguments. >> >> It's possible that there may be a miscommunication / confusion >> here. >> >> At least according to my understanding, the idiom "to knock >> [person] off" is commonly understood as a euphemism for "to murder >> [person]". > > I didn't have in mind any type of murder or long lasting damage of > any soft. > > When I said, to "Knock you off with a shovel in the face", I meant a > kind of "Wake up call". But now, as you say it, and as English is > somewhat my first language, even if it's more my second now, I do > remember as a kid / teenager that I would have interpreted that as > "To be turned off". > > I was a somewhat literal translation from the french where you can > say "Le réveiller à coup de pelle dans la face" which mean to wake > someone up with a shovel in the face. > > So take it as : > A kick in the ass. > A kick in the but. > A slap in the face. > A physical wake up call. > ... > Something that will shake you enough that you get the time to think. > Something like... > Hope you understand before you end up 6 month on a hospital bed so you > can get your mind straight. I guessed that you might mean something like that, but that is not how it may have come across to someone familiar with the English idiom in question. That's why I wanted to clarify the point. >> Thus, when you wrote "I can only hope that someone will knock you >> off with a shovel in the face", that may have been read as "I can >> only hope that someone one day murders you by smashing your face in >> with a shovel". >> >> This is, clearly, a *far greater* verbal escalation than merely >> using foul language; I suspect, though I am not certain, that it >> would be seen as grounds for immediate banning from the mailing >> list. > > If it is, then be it. Which would be somewhat hard to understand has > you seem to accept mail coming from any server and even user not on > the mailing list. I seem to recall mention of moderation at some points in the past, although specifics do escape me, and it's possible I'm remembering wrong. > So as you are the almighty that now believe I shall be banned. Wish > you good luck. I never said any such thing. I said that, *if* the statement which yours could be interpreted as had been what you said (or what you meant), then clearly that would be grounds for a ban. Since you've now clarified that that isn't what you meant (and plausibly so, at least in my opinion), that would probably be enough to remove that option from the picture, if it was ever in. > I'll go back like all those ones who take and don't give. And will > surely abstain from sharing my opinions or helping others in what I > may have knowledge. That would be a sad outcome. Although the style of your posts to this mailing list that I've seen thus far don't tend to fit very well with my personal tastes, I do think that we're overall better off with you participating than we'd be if you were not. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-30 16:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <CvJxD-374-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236659 |
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On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 09:16:37AM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > Hi, [...] > I didn't have in mind any type of murder or long lasting damage of any soft. Still, it's a pretty violent metaphor, I think we can agree on that. And perhaps somewhat off-tone for a mailing list with roughly 3k subscribers from all over the world. For some, it might be somewhat... intimidating. [...] > So as you are the almighty that now believe I shall be banned. > Wish you good luck. I think no one here has proposed banning you. Among those suggesting you tone down, I think no one has the power to do that. > I'll go back like all those ones who take and don't give. > And will surely abstain from sharing my opinions or helping others in > what I may have knowledge. I agree with The Wanderer here: that would be a pity. Your contributions are valuable here. Cheers - t
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-30 12:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <CvFaH-qC-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236651 |
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On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 05:23:49AM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > Hi, > > On 2021-06-30 4:32 a.m., Andrei POPESCU wrote: > > On Ma, 29 iun 21, 17:08:16, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > >> > >> I can only hope that one day someone will knock you off with a shovel in > >> the face because you said something wrong. This will be a great day and > >> you'll get back what you serve to others. > > > > Seriously? > > > Yes, whatever great idea you have, even if others are wrong in what they > say. Nothing justify being rude and lacking respect. Sorry, Polyna -- I've to agree with Andrei here. "Knocking someone off with a showel in the face" is, in this context, in my eyes as harsh as any swear word can be. Even if you relativise it later. I have the impression that with "swear word" you are alluding to Greg's in that other thread which converged to "xhost +", and no, I didn't like that either. Not so much the swear word as rather the generally aggresive undertone Greg had. FWIW I don't mind swear words whenever they're not aimed at people, but since the latter is pretty difficult to pin down "objectively", independently of cultural background and current perception, I'm fine with a "no swear word" policy in such a broad mailing list. Cheers, thanks - tomás
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-29 22:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <CvsQ9-1rv-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236626 |
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Hi, On 2021-06-29 2:43 p.m., Greg Wooledge wrote: > DO NOT USE xhost + WITH ssh -X OR ssh -Y > > That was the fucking point. WoW... Take it *easy* there... > Now, if you want to advocate that people should use xhost + because I never talked about xhost myself. And the only thing I said was that by learning how things work from the inside out, you'll be able to fully understand problems that may arise when ssh -X does not do what you want automatically. > that's how you learned things back in the early 1990s, that's your right, > but I hope you will at least point out how INCREDIBLY INSECURE this is, I never said in no situation something like "use xhost +". The same way as I never said to unblock all the ports on your router or to let everyone have access to *sudo* on a server. > > Even then, you wouldn't combine it with ssh -X. xhost + and manually > overriding DISPLAY bypasses the ssh encryption layer entirely. It also > involves starting the X server with a non-default option, so it's quite > a lot more work than using ssh -X. Which is good. We wouldn't want the > horribly broken way to be the easy way. > I never said anything related to using DISPLAY and / or xhost with ssh. Maybe if you read what it is said in the complete context, then you may start to get a beginning of a understanding. You are *messing up* two things. The first : I suggested to read some book, someone else gave some good references for books name as I only suggested "X11 books from O'Reilly". The second : I suggested to learn on how does X11 networking infrastructure work. And this is how does a client know where to display using the DISPLAY variable and how does X11 authenticate client. *As you can see, there's no indication of using xhost* The third : This thread suggested to use ssh -X for using a X client and X server on different machine. As a easier way around. The fourth : I suggested to still learn the inner working of X authentication so that if a problem arise with ssh -X then you'll be able to do some diagnostic yourself. The fifth : You show up and....(whatever) -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-30 12:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: X server running on a different machine [Re: Wanted: a special purpose Debian installer] |
| Message-ID | <CvFaH-qC-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236626 |
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On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 02:43:28PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote: [...] > DO NOT USE xhost + WITH ssh -X OR ssh -Y > > That was the fucking point. Calm down. I understand security is close to your heart, but there's no need to be so vitriolic and borderline insulting about it. There are nicer ways to drive the point home that, nowadays, "xhost +" isn't a good idea, generally. Cheers - t
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-30 14:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Mailing list behaviour, words and that [was: Re: X server ...] |
| Message-ID | <CvHPb-1ZT-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236654 |
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On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 01:31:37PM +0100, mick crane wrote: > On 2021-06-30 10:59, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > >On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 02:43:28PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > >[...] > > > >>DO NOT USE xhost + WITH ssh -X OR ssh -Y > >> > >>That was the fucking point. > > > >Calm down. I understand security is close to your heart, > >but there's no need to be so vitriolic and borderline > >insulting about it. > > > >There are nicer ways to drive the point home that, nowadays, > >"xhost +" isn't a good idea, generally. > > "f" word is very ancient English word which gives added emphasis > especially when unexpected > Doesn't bother me but as you say is inappropriate on mailing list > and I'm sure it's a one-off. See my other post. Personally, I don't feel hurt by it. Actually, I think it's part of the language [1], so... I'm more worried by a generally aggressive tone, especially if it is towards people. That said, I do take into account that some people may be hurt by some words, so I try to not use them in a context where they might do harm. It is irrelevant how old the word is, what its etymology is and all that. Just the effect counts in the current context. In private, and when I /know/ that my interlocutors are fine with it, I apply less restraints (but try to be prepared for cases where my "knowledge" turns out to be wrong: I have to rely on others to help me on that, external POV and all of this). Cheers [1] I'm somewhat of a language nerd. I do love all words! - t
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| From | Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-30 15:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Mailing list behaviour, words and that [was: Re: X server ...] |
| Message-ID | <CvHYS-22Y-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236657 |
On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 02:45:57PM +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 01:31:37PM +0100, mick crane wrote: > > On 2021-06-30 10:59, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > > >On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 02:43:28PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > > > >[...] > > > > > >>DO NOT USE xhost + WITH ssh -X OR ssh -Y > > >> > > >>That was the fucking point. > > > > > >Calm down. I understand security is close to your heart, > > >but there's no need to be so vitriolic and borderline > > >insulting about it. > > > > > >There are nicer ways to drive the point home that, nowadays, > > >"xhost +" isn't a good idea, generally. > > > > "f" word is very ancient English word which gives added emphasis > > especially when unexpected > > Doesn't bother me but as you say is inappropriate on mailing list > > and I'm sure it's a one-off. > > See my other post. Personally, I don't feel hurt by it. Actually, I think > it's part of the language [1], so... > > I'm more worried by a generally aggressive tone, especially if it is > towards people. > > That said, I do take into account that some people may be hurt by some > words, so I try to not use them in a context where they might do harm. > It is irrelevant how old the word is, what its etymology is and all > that. Just the effect counts in the current context. > > In private, and when I /know/ that my interlocutors are fine with it, > I apply less restraints (but try to be prepared for cases where my > "knowledge" turns out to be wrong: I have to rely on others to help > me on that, external POV and all of this). > > Cheers > > [1] I'm somewhat of a language nerd. I do love all words! > I too am a language nerd. It is terribly fascinating how a particular word, regardless of things like history and etymology can come to be considered a "bad word" all on its own in any context. Other words are "bad" only when used in a particular way. Then there is the idea that offensive or distasteful ideas, thoughts, and such can be expressed by euphemism and that is in a way better (in the minds of most people) than using the "bad words" directly. It sort of makes me wish I had taken up linguistics as a career. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-30 15:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Mailing list behaviour, words and that [was: Re: X server ...] |
| Message-ID | <CvIBA-2uJ-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236658 |
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Hi, >> [1] I'm somewhat of a language nerd. I do love all words! >> > I too am a language nerd. It is terribly fascinating how a particular > word, regardless of things like history and etymology can come to be > considered a "bad word" all on its own in any context. Other words are > "bad" only when used in a particular way. Then there is the idea that > offensive or distasteful ideas, thoughts, and such can be expressed by > euphemism and that is in a way better (in the minds of most people) than > using the "bad words" directly. It sort of makes me wish I had taken up > linguistics as a career. > > Regards, > > -Roberto I had some linguistics class both at the Bachelor level and master degree when I did psychology (and later cognitive science). If you want to read on the subject I can send you some books in PDF form, including language analysis, context extraction and many other somewhat interesting subject. It's also a excellent subject to annoy people when they seem not too care, after telling them the story behind each word in a sentence, they'll leave you alone ! > > -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-30 20:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Mailing list behaviour, words and that [was: Re: X server ...] |
| Message-ID | <CvMYx-5i8-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236657 |
On Wed 30 Jun 2021 at 14:45:57 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 01:31:37PM +0100, mick crane wrote: > > On 2021-06-30 10:59, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > > >On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 02:43:28PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > > > >[...] > > > > > >>DO NOT USE xhost + WITH ssh -X OR ssh -Y > > >> > > >>That was the fucking point. > > > > > >Calm down. I understand security is close to your heart, > > >but there's no need to be so vitriolic and borderline > > >insulting about it. > > > > > >There are nicer ways to drive the point home that, nowadays, > > >"xhost +" isn't a good idea, generally. > > > > "f" word is very ancient English word which gives added emphasis > > especially when unexpected > > Doesn't bother me but as you say is inappropriate on mailing list > > and I'm sure it's a one-off. > > See my other post. Personally, I don't feel hurt by it. Actually, I think > it's part of the language [1], so... ...so it's generally used by the adjectivally challenged. > > I'm more worried by a generally aggressive tone, especially if it is > towards people. > > That said, I do take into account that some people may be hurt by some > words, so I try to not use them in a context where they might do harm. > It is irrelevant how old the word is, what its etymology is and all > that. Just the effect counts in the current context. > > In private, and when I /know/ that my interlocutors are fine with it, > I apply less restraints (but try to be prepared for cases where my > "knowledge" turns out to be wrong: I have to rely on others to help > me on that, external POV and all of this). The language one speaks indictes social status. -- Brian.
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-06-30 20:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Mailing list behaviour, words and that [was: Re: X server ...] |
| Message-ID | <CvNrz-5rl-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #236657 |
On Wed 30 Jun 2021 at 14:45:57 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > [1] I'm somewhat of a language nerd. I do love all words! Words are words. They exist. So why do they disappear from the language? I would suggest some consideration about using "cretin", "moron" and "lunatic" in public. Their history is interesting. -- Brian.
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