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thunderbird

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  thunderbird fxkl47BF <fxkl47BF@protonmail.com> - 2021-05-30 20:30 +0200
    Re: thunderbird Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-05-30 22:00 +0200
    Re: thunderbird Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-05-30 21:50 +0200
      Re: thunderbird Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2021-05-30 23:20 +0200
        Re: thunderbird James Wallen <jpwallen@comcast.net> - 2021-05-30 23:50 +0200
      Re: thunderbird James Wallen <jpwallen@comcast.net> - 2021-05-30 23:00 +0200
        Re: thunderbird rust <rustbuckett@pm.me> - 2021-05-31 02:30 +0200
          Re: thunderbird James Wallen <jpwallen@comcast.net> - 2021-05-31 03:00 +0200
            Re: thunderbird The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-05-31 12:00 +0200
              Re: thunderbird rust <rustbuckett@pm.me> - 2021-05-31 14:10 +0200
                Re: thunderbird didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2021-05-31 15:10 +0200
                  Re: thunderbird Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> - 2021-05-31 15:20 +0200
                    Re: thunderbird rust <rustbuckett@pm.me> - 2021-06-02 00:50 +0200
                  Re: thunderbird The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-05-31 15:30 +0200
              Re: thunderbird James Wallen <jpwallen@comcast.net> - 2021-05-31 17:30 +0200
            Re: thunderbird rust <rustbuckett@pm.me> - 2021-05-31 14:00 +0200
      Re: thunderbird <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-05-30 23:00 +0200
    Re: thunderbird Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-05-30 22:10 +0200
      Re: thunderbird Doug McGarrett <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2021-05-30 22:50 +0200
        Re: thunderbird Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-05-30 23:00 +0200
          Re: thunderbird Charlie <taoquester@gmail.com> - 2021-05-31 01:00 +0200
        Re: thunderbird Frank McCormick <debianlist@videotron.ca> - 2021-05-31 01:20 +0200
    Re: thunderbird Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2021-05-30 22:30 +0200
      Re: thunderbird ghe2001 <ghe2001@protonmail.com> - 2021-05-30 23:00 +0200
        Re: thunderbird <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-05-31 08:50 +0200
          Re: thunderbird Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2021-05-31 10:40 +0200
            Re: thunderbird <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-05-31 11:20 +0200
              Re: thunderbird Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-05-31 16:10 +0200
                Re: thunderbird Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2021-05-31 17:40 +0200
                  Matrix (was Re: thunderbird) The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-05-31 18:00 +0200
                  Re: thunderbird <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-05-31 18:00 +0200
                    Re: thunderbird Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-05-31 19:00 +0200
                    Re: thunderbird Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-01 09:50 +0200
          Re: thunderbird rust <rustbuckett@pm.me> - 2021-05-31 14:10 +0200
          Re: thunderbird Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-01 10:20 +0200
            Re: thunderbird Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-06-01 10:30 +0200
      Re: thunderbird Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2021-05-30 23:10 +0200
      Re: thunderbird Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2021-05-30 23:30 +0200
    Re: thunderbird Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2021-05-31 01:20 +0200
      Re: thunderbird Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2021-05-31 10:00 +0200
    Re: thunderbird rust <rustbuckett@pm.me> - 2021-05-31 02:30 +0200
    Re: thunderbird Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-05-31 03:10 +0200

Page 2 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3  Next page →

#235695

On Sun, 30 May 2021 13:55:29 -0700
Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> wrote:

> On 31-05-2021 06:24, Doug McGarrett wrote:
> > On 5/30/21 4:04 PM, Joe wrote:
> >   
> >> On Sun, 30 May 2021 18:29:11 +0000
> >> fxkl47BF <fxkl47BF@protonmail.com> wrote:
> >>  
> >>> for a few decades i have used pine/alpine.
> >>> i'm considering a new mail application.
> >>> there are more out there than you can shake a stick at.
> >>> what are your thoughts of thunderbird.  
> >>
> >> A bit slow and heavy for my liking. I used to use it, then switched
> >> to
> >> Claws-Mail, which is faster and seems to do what I need.  
> >  Thunderbird will find all the esoteric locations, etc. that email
> > systems need to function. Claws mail does not. If I knew how
> > to find the necessary information, I would try claws mail.
> > --doug  
> 
> I run a small business with ClawsMail and it answers all requirements.
> I find the problems others experience with it are associated with not
> being familiar with the various installable options.
> File transfer?
> No problem!
> And the calendar/appointments set up is excellent.
> Cheers!
> 
> Harry.

+1

-- 
	Registered Linux User:- 329524

	***********************************************

	Facts are stubborn, but statistics are more pliable. --Mark
	Twain

	***********************************************
	Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.

	-----------------------------------------------------

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#235696

On 5/30/21 4:24 PM, Doug McGarrett wrote:
> 
> 
> On 5/30/21 4:04 PM, Joe wrote:
>> On Sun, 30 May 2021 18:29:11 +0000
>> fxkl47BF<fxkl47BF@protonmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> for a few decades i have used pine/alpine.
>>> i'm considering a new mail application.
>>> there are more out there than you can shake a stick at.
>>> what are your thoughts of thunderbird.
>>>
>> A bit slow and heavy for my liking. I used to use it, then switched to
>> Claws-Mail, which is faster and seems to do what I need.
>>
> Thunderbird will find all the esoteric locations, etc. that email
> systems need to function. Claws mail does not. If I knew how
> to find the necessary information, I would try claws mail.
> --doug


I tried Claws mail a few years ago. I could never get it setup properly 
for IMAP. Thunderbird did it flawlessly.
-- 
Frank McCormick

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#235684

On 31/5/21 2:29 am, fxkl47BF wrote:
> for a few decades i have used pine/alpine.
> i'm considering a new mail application.
> there are more out there than you can shake a stick at.
> what are your thoughts of thunderbird.
> 

I use thunderbird for skimming through incoming email before downloading 
it, to deal with messages that may need quick responses, but thunderbird 
often crashes, sometimes causing system crashes, because of malicious 
javascripts in it "error - unresponsive script" - which happens every 
day or so, if the application is not closed immediately after skimming 
through the new incoming messages. And, as said, it can cause system 
crashes. It is quick and very dirty.

I also use claws mail for one account, that rarely has traffic. But, 
claws mail is not easy to use, in terms of transferring messages from 
one installation to another; its folder management is not very good.

I use alpine, and have been using alpine, and, before that, pine, for 
about thirty years. I was using it before the Internet existed. I have 
not found any email application that is as powerful, sturdy, and 
reliable, as alpine/pine, and, alpine/pine is the safest email 
application, insofar as I am aware.

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

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#235687

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256



‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Sunday, May 30, 2021 2:24 PM, Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> wrote:

>... (snip)

Look into ProtonMail.  Web based, slow sometimes (they're in Switzerland), but PGP encryption if possible, and free.  Works, too.

--
Glenn English
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: ProtonMail

wsBzBAEBCAAGBQJgs/uxACEJEJ/XhjGCrIwyFiEELKJzD0JScCVjQA2Xn9eG
MYKsjDJjGAf+IUTG2wVMAwLkd9R5a6sC1WiU8T3YfqdORbH3YnRYqjKwZ2He
ZdI0vJJ59Jbq7UD5s6Pj30wYXruSwYS7TuwWPZWVrjvukor1enop5E7wlkfg
sdml/6I6vhuUFirY8kzJRNvZnjATAUpDMZx/34X5Smnbz5hbLqlA6bnpf8Hf
QXqy6U9YyiCu3Wgbf0MCNEF4Q9OEj57Ex8UaJgngLdZsSLBLpkTnFgi/fjSc
RcU5gH47F9nYVkQRge56KoM8UPw7Kv+I/i3YPkcrNEqE9mqG7BaRD6FQkPnt
L+ZioQ9TFAcfU1Uvf1Wp0Bg8uStz2cgU2SCL84UdynEaOiXQnoVrSQ==
=voHw
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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#235721

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On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 08:55:32PM +0000, ghe2001 wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> 
> 
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> On Sunday, May 30, 2021 2:24 PM, Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> wrote:
> 
> >... (snip)
> 
> Look into ProtonMail.  Web based,
                         ^^^^^^^^^
This would disqualify it for me, 100%. AFAIK, the OP was
asking for a MUA anyway, not for a web service.

> ... slow sometimes (they're in Switzerland), but PGP encryption if possible,


How does "web based" and PGP go together, anyway? Web based
means mail handling (and thus encryption/signing) is done
on other people's computers.

This means your private keys are on other people's computers.

> ...and free.  Works, too.

As in free beer or as in free speech?

No. Just... no.

Cheers
 - t

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#235724

On 31.05.21 08:48, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> (...)
> How does "web based" and PGP go together, anyway? Web based
> means mail handling (and thus encryption/signing) is done
> on other people's computers.
> (...)

Web based apps can process data locally at your own computer, for 
instance by using JavaScript.

Secure PGP support is available for many web mail services by this 
add-on for several browsers: https://www.mailvelope.com/

While PGP is still extremely useful for signing email messages and for 
confirming the signature of others, it in my opinion is obsolete if 
thinking about privacy since the general availability of mature open 
source End-to-End encrypting Messaging services like the one provided by 
the matrix.org protocol having clients for all platforms, from 
smartphone clients to graphical PC and even CLI clients for Linux.

Best regards, Marco!

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#235726

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On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 10:36:31AM +0200, Marco Möller wrote:
> On 31.05.21 08:48, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> >(...)
> >How does "web based" and PGP go together, anyway? Web based
> >means mail handling (and thus encryption/signing) is done
> >on other people's computers.
> >(...)
> 
> Web based apps can process data locally at your own computer, for
> instance by using JavaScript.

As trustworthy as your provider on "the other side" is currently
at the moment. Thanks, but I'll pass :)

> Secure PGP support is available for many web mail services by this
> add-on for several browsers: https://www.mailvelope.com/

Yes, of course. But given the browser's "distribution model", which
basically is "I'll take all javascript that site sends me, provided
it doesn't disturb other sites", it's like putting lipstick on a
pig.

> While PGP is still extremely useful for signing email messages and
> for confirming the signature of others, it in my opinion is obsolete
> if thinking about privacy since the general availability of mature
> open source End-to-End encrypting Messaging services like the one
> provided by the matrix.org protocol having clients for all
> platforms, from smartphone clients to graphical PC and even CLI
> clients for Linux.

Thanks, but I'll prefer a decentralised, end-to-end encryptable,
well established messaging infrastructure with a rich choice of
user and transfer agents. It's called e-mail.

Cheers
 - t

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#235745

> Thanks, but I'll prefer a decentralised, end-to-end encryptable,
> well established messaging infrastructure with a rich choice of
> user and transfer agents. It's called e-mail.

Actually, matrix.org aims to be that as well.  It probably doesn't yet
qualify for "rich choice" (e.g. there is a matrix-client.el but it
doesn't support encryption yet), but other than that, it's pretty
much there.


        Stefan "using Matrix as a replacement for WhatsApp"

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#235749

On 31.05.21 16:01, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> Thanks, but I'll prefer a decentralised, end-to-end encryptable,
>> well established messaging infrastructure with a rich choice of
>> user and transfer agents. It's called e-mail.
> 
> Actually, matrix.org aims to be that as well.  It probably doesn't yet
> qualify for "rich choice" (e.g. there is a matrix-client.el but it
> doesn't support encryption yet), but other than that, it's pretty
> much there.

The project currently lists many more clients 
(https://matrix.org/clients/), and here 
(https://matrix.org/clients-matrix/) 12 clients are marked to provide 
E2E encryption.
The most used client is probably Element, formerly called Riot 
(https://element.io/). The link to its Linux version is not placed 
nicely visble, it is below the Desktop Clients for Win and Mac behind 
the comment "Also available on Linux", which points to a repository 
which can be used for installation and updates. This Element client 
works flawlessly.

Concerning the server, You could also run your own matrix server, if you 
cannot find a provider which you trust, it is all open source.

Good Luck, and sorry for having driving off topic. Marco.

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#235750 — Matrix (was Re: thunderbird)

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On 2021-05-31 at 11:38, Marco Möller wrote:

> On 31.05.21 16:01, Stefan Monnier wrote:

[that tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:]

>>> Thanks, but I'll prefer a decentralised, end-to-end encryptable,
>>> well established messaging infrastructure with a rich choice of
>>> user and transfer agents. It's called e-mail.
>> 
>> Actually, matrix.org aims to be that as well.  It probably doesn't
>> yet qualify for "rich choice" (e.g. there is a matrix-client.el but
>> it doesn't support encryption yet), but other than that, it's
>> pretty much there.
> 
> The project currently lists many more clients
> (https://matrix.org/clients/), and here
> (https://matrix.org/clients-matrix/) 12 clients are marked to provide
> E2E encryption.

A relatively quick search finds a few clients in the Debian repository:
nheko, quaternion, matrix-mirage, weechat-matrix, spectral. There's also
pantalaimon, described as an 'E2EE-aware proxy daemon for matrix
clients', and libqmatrixclient*, a 'Qt5 library to write cross-platform
clients for Matrix' (which is apparently used by quaternion).

Of those, matrix-mirage specifically notes end-to-end encryption
support, and weechat-matrix marks it as experimental; the others don't
seem to mention it one way or the other, at least not in the package
description.

nheko, quaternion, and pantalaimon are all in both stable and testing;
the others are currently in testing but not stable.

I haven't previously looked closely at Matrix, but I'm going to have to
check some of these out and see what I think.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

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#235752

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On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 05:38:48PM +0200, Marco Möller wrote:
> On 31.05.21 16:01, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> >>Thanks, but I'll prefer a decentralised, end-to-end encryptable,
> >>well established messaging infrastructure with a rich choice of
> >>user and transfer agents. It's called e-mail.
> >
> >Actually, matrix.org aims to be that as well.  It probably doesn't yet
> >qualify for "rich choice" (e.g. there is a matrix-client.el but it
> >doesn't support encryption yet), but other than that, it's pretty
> >much there.

I'm still hoping that I'm old enough to fade into irrelevancy
before I have to make that choice. I'm happy with mail (and in
a way, I'm happy there's twitter, facebook and instagram, so I
haven't to "be" there ;-)

> The project currently lists many more clients
> (https://matrix.org/clients/), and here
> (https://matrix.org/clients-matrix/) 12 clients are marked to
> provide E2E encryption.

Eek ;-)

> The most used client is probably Element, formerly called Riot
> (https://element.io/). The link to its Linux version is not placed
> nicely visble, it is below the Desktop Clients for Win and Mac
> behind the comment "Also available on Linux", which points to a
> repository which can be used for installation and updates. This
> Element client works flawlessly.

Source code? That page is a maze of twisty little marketing-heavy
passages, all alike :-D

> Concerning the server, You could also run your own matrix server, if
> you cannot find a provider which you trust, it is all open source.
> 
> Good Luck, and sorry for having driving off topic. Marco.

Not my culture. By a long shot. Sorry to disappoint you.

Cheers
 - t

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#235754

>> The most used client is probably Element, formerly called Riot
>> (https://element.io/). The link to its Linux version is not placed
>> nicely visble, it is below the Desktop Clients for Win and Mac
>> behind the comment "Also available on Linux", which points to a
>> repository which can be used for installation and updates. This
>> Element client works flawlessly.
> Source code? That page is a maze of twisty little marketing-heavy
> passages, all alike :-D

Element is not in Debian, AFAICT, but it is in F-Droid.
FWIW, I use Nheko on the desktop, which *is* in Debian.
The matrix server also is in Debian (and supported by FreedomBox).


        Stefan

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#235759

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On Lu, 31 mai 21, 17:52:00, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 05:38:48PM +0200, Marco Möller wrote:
> 
> > Concerning the server, You could also run your own matrix server, if
> > you cannot find a provider which you trust, it is all open source.
> > 
> > Good Luck, and sorry for having driving off topic. Marco.
> 
> Not my culture. By a long shot. Sorry to disappoint you.

Think of Matrix as a potential succesor to IRC, not email.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#235734

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On 5/31/21 6:50 AM, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

>>
>> Look into ProtonMail.  Web based,
>                          ^^^^^^^^^
> This would disqualify it for me, 100%. AFAIK, the OP was
> asking for a MUA anyway, not for a web service.

I know this is straying from the topic, but I've been using Protonmail
with Neomutt and now with Thunderbird. You have to install a Bridge that
acts somewhat like a proxy for incoming and outgoing mail, but it works.

-- 
rust

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#235760

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On Lu, 31 mai 21, 08:48:48, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 08:55:32PM +0000, ghe2001 wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA256
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> > On Sunday, May 30, 2021 2:24 PM, Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> wrote:
> > 
> > >... (snip)
> > 
> > Look into ProtonMail.  Web based,
>                          ^^^^^^^^^
> This would disqualify it for me, 100%. AFAIK, the OP was
> asking for a MUA anyway, not for a web service.

Yes, it's off-topic for this thread, but...
 
> > ... slow sometimes (they're in Switzerland), but PGP encryption if possible,
> 
> 
> How does "web based" and PGP go together, anyway? Web based
> means mail handling (and thus encryption/signing) is done
> on other people's computers.
> 
> This means your private keys are on other people's computers.

Yes.

> > ...and free.  Works, too.
> 
> As in free beer or as in free speech?

The service is free as in beer for the basic limited account.

They are publishing most (all?) their software under free licenses, 
including the JavaScript handling the encryption part in the web 
interface.

> No. Just... no.

Their target audience is different.

As far as I can tell it's the most usable out-of-the box encrypted email 
(including at rest) I know of, if one is willing to trust them not to 
brute-force your GPG key passphrase.

Mails between ProtonMail subscribers are encrypted by default, from 
browser to browser (or the IMAP gateway for paid subscriptions).

For non-subscribers there is the option to encrypt messages with a 
password. Instead of the full message the other party receives a link to 
a webinterface they can use to read and reply to the message.

Additionally, there are no ads, unless you count the occasional (once 
per month?) message with latest updates (including new functionality, 
like the calendar) and the "Upgrade to a paid account" buttons in the 
webinterface.

For me it is definitely an upgrade to Gmail for stuff I want to keep 
away from Google and it gives me the option to communicate reasonably 
secure with non-technical users.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#235761

On 01-06-2021 18:10, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Lu, 31 mai 21, 08:48:48, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
>> On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 08:55:32PM +0000, ghe2001 wrote:
>> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> > Hash: SHA256
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>> > On Sunday, May 30, 2021 2:24 PM, Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > >... (snip)
>> >
>> > Look into ProtonMail.  Web based,
>>                          ^^^^^^^^^
>> This would disqualify it for me, 100%. AFAIK, the OP was
>> asking for a MUA anyway, not for a web service.
> 
> Yes, it's off-topic for this thread, but...
>  
>> > ... slow sometimes (they're in Switzerland), but PGP encryption if possible,
>>
>>
>> How does "web based" and PGP go together, anyway? Web based
>> means mail handling (and thus encryption/signing) is done
>> on other people's computers.
>>
>> This means your private keys are on other people's computers.
> 
> Yes.
> 
>> > ...and free.  Works, too.
>>
>> As in free beer or as in free speech?
> 
> The service is free as in beer for the basic limited account.

If we're looking at this sort of thing, you might like to take a look at
tutanota, also.

https://tutanota.com/

Cheers!

Harry.
> 
> They are publishing most (all?) their software under free licenses, 
> including the JavaScript handling the encryption part in the web 
> interface.
> 
>> No. Just... no.
> 
> Their target audience is different.
> 
> As far as I can tell it's the most usable out-of-the box encrypted email 
> (including at rest) I know of, if one is willing to trust them not to 
> brute-force your GPG key passphrase.
> 
> Mails between ProtonMail subscribers are encrypted by default, from 
> browser to browser (or the IMAP gateway for paid subscriptions).
> 
> For non-subscribers there is the option to encrypt messages with a 
> password. Instead of the full message the other party receives a link to 
> a webinterface they can use to read and reply to the message.
> 
> Additionally, there are no ads, unless you count the occasional (once 
> per month?) message with latest updates (including new functionality, 
> like the calendar) and the "Upgrade to a paid account" buttons in the 
> webinterface.
> 
> For me it is definitely an upgrade to Gmail for stuff I want to keep 
> away from Google and it gives me the option to communicate reasonably 
> secure with non-technical users.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Andrei

-- 
‘The issues are too important to be left for the voters’. 
― Henry Kissinger

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#235692

On 31/5/21 4:24 am, Bret Busby wrote:
> On 31/5/21 2:29 am, fxkl47BF wrote:
>> for a few decades i have used pine/alpine.
>> i'm considering a new mail application.
>> there are more out there than you can shake a stick at.
>> what are your thoughts of thunderbird.
>>
> 
> I use thunderbird for skimming through incoming email before downloading 
> it, to deal with messages that may need quick responses, but thunderbird 
> often crashes, sometimes causing system crashes, because of malicious 
> javascripts in it "error - unresponsive script" - which happens every 
> day or so, if the application is not closed immediately after skimming 
> through the new incoming messages. And, as said, it can cause system 
> crashes. It is quick and very dirty.
> 
> I also use claws mail for one account, that rarely has traffic. But, 
> claws mail is not easy to use, in terms of transferring messages from 
> one installation to another; its folder management is not very good.
> 
> I use alpine, and have been using alpine, and, before that, pine, for 
> about thirty years. I was using it before the Internet existed. I have 
> not found any email application that is as powerful, sturdy, and 
> reliable, as alpine/pine, and, alpine/pine is the safest email 
> application, insofar as I am aware.
> 

Oh, and, in case you are not already aware, the two thunderbird mailing 
lists apparently comprise of users only, whereas the alpine mailing list 
includes the developer, who is active on the list, and, seeks input from 
users, including for prospective changes, whereas some of the changes 
that are proposed for thunderbird, are simply "like it or lump it - this 
is what we will do / have done", and, intended changes to be implemented 
in the next version of thunderbird, are not wanted, by a number of 
current thunderbird users.

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

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#235693

On Mon, 31 May 2021 04:24:27 +0800
Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> wrote:

> I also use claws mail for one account, that rarely has traffic. But, 
> claws mail is not easy to use, in terms of transferring messages from 
> one installation to another;

Interesting. I have claws-mail on several computers, and keep them
automatically synchronized with syncthing. The trick is, you should sync
both your ~/Mail directory (mail) and your ~/.claws-mail (configuration
and internal data).

For laptops at remote locations, I use Unison manually.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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#235697

On 30.05.21 20:29, fxkl47BF wrote:
> for a few decades i have used pine/alpine.
> i'm considering a new mail application.
> there are more out there than you can shake a stick at.
> what are your thoughts of thunderbird.
> 

I am using Thunderbird without problems for years now. I have never had 
it crashing.
Actually I came back to Thunderbird some 3 or 4 years ago (not perfectly 
sure, it was too long ago) after a short romance with KMail, which 
crashed frequently and even let all the system become so slow that it 
was unusable. I don't know about KMail's stability of today. Well the 
design of the GUI of KMail was quite nice that time, this is what made 
me testing it. I would test it again if more frequently confirmation 
about the current stability of KMail would be mentioned somewhere.

So, no problems with the stability of Thunderbird for me.
With some efforts it can be configured to nicely support my workflow, 
opening right away with opened tabs for EMail, Calendar and Task List, 
and showing upcoming events also as a side note on the main EMail tab.

One of its weak points is the missing integration into the System Task 
bar of KDE Plasma - until you have been able to find, install and 
configure the extra tool from a third party needed for it.
Another weak point is its missing integration with GnuPG - in this 
context I just placed a question about it here on the list: Thunderbird 
comes with its own PGP implementation and key administration, and for 
any usage of PGP outside of Thunderbird a parallel administration 
infrastructure has to be maintained.

I did never use Thunderbird to connect to a MS Exchange server and 
therefore cannot state about this. I used it in the far past for 
standard POP, and am using it nowadays for standard IMAP accounts. I 
used it with its option for keeping all messages in one file, and with 
the other option to keep each message in an individual file. Both never 
made me any problems, although converting from the the one format to the 
other is not offered by Thunderbird and only due to using IMAP accounts 
I was able to manage this (downloading all messages again from the IMAP 
server). The decision on how to store the messages has to be done before 
the creation of an email account in Thunderbird.

In summary, although the configuration of advanced options and 
appearance needs quite some effort, Thunderbird afterwards works like a 
charm.

Good Luck!
Marco.

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#235722

I forgot to mention another weak point if using it under KDE Plasma: I 
did not find how to sync its calendar with the calendar widget of KDE 
(the calendar popping up when clicking on the clock in the system task 
bar of KDE Plasma). I never have had need to sync it with other entities 
and therefore could not state about that compatibility.

Thunderbird is very nice, it is my daily, reliable work horse for IMAP. 
Taking all weak points together it becomes clear that it is very good as 
a stand-alone tool, but not so good for interfacing with other tools.

Good Luck! Marco.

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