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Groups > linux.debian.user > #223656 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2020-06-19 21:20 +0200 |
| Last post | 2020-06-21 23:10 +0200 |
| Articles | 8 on this page of 108 — 42 participants |
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technical terms overhaul Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2020-06-19 21:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-19 21:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-06-19 21:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-19 22:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-06-19 22:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul ghe2001 <ghe2001@protonmail.com> - 2020-06-19 22:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-06-19 22:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-06-19 22:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-06-20 02:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-06-20 05:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul ghe2001 <ghe2001@protonmail.com> - 2020-06-20 05:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-06-20 06:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-06-20 09:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-06-20 16:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 16:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-06-20 21:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-06-20 18:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-06-22 15:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-22 19:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Paul Johnson <baloo@ursamundi.org> - 2020-06-22 19:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-06-19 23:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 18:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-19 23:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-06-19 22:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-19 23:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2020-06-20 03:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul riveravaldez <riveravaldezmail@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 00:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-06-20 12:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2020-06-20 14:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-06-20 15:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-06-20 00:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-06-20 00:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 05:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-06-21 07:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 07:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Stephan Seitz <stse+debian@rootsland.net> - 2020-06-21 12:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul fmneto@gmail.com - 2020-06-19 21:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2020-06-19 22:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2020-06-19 23:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul elvis <elvis@dogonfire.com> - 2020-06-20 16:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-06-20 18:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Paul Johnson <baloo@ursamundi.org> - 2020-06-19 22:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2020-06-20 01:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 01:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 01:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 01:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2020-06-20 03:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 13:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-20 14:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 17:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2020-06-19 23:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Andrea Borgia <andrea@borgia.bo.it> - 2020-06-20 11:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-19 23:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-06-20 01:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2020-06-20 01:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-20 03:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson@freevolt.org - 2020-06-20 04:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-06-20 03:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2020-06-20 03:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul elvis <elvis@dogonfire.com> - 2020-06-20 16:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 19:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-20 20:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 22:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2020-06-20 20:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 22:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2020-06-20 23:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 23:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 05:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2020-06-21 08:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-06-21 09:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2020-06-21 11:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 11:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-06-20 21:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Francisco Mariano Neto <fmneto@usp.br> - 2020-06-20 21:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 22:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-06-20 21:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 23:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-06-21 08:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 08:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-06-21 19:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 22:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-06-20 22:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 23:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 07:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-06-21 17:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Rob van der Putten <rob@sput.nl> - 2020-06-21 12:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2020-06-21 13:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 14:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-06-21 14:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-06-21 16:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2020-06-21 17:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-06-21 16:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 19:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-06-21 19:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Peter Ehlert <peter@sdi-baja.com> - 2020-06-21 20:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2020-06-21 21:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2020-06-21 22:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-06-21 23:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-21 23:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson@freevolt.org - 2020-06-21 23:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-06-21 19:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul nemo <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2020-06-23 22:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-21 15:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-21 18:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 21:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-06-21 22:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-21 23:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 23:10 +0200
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| From | Joe <joe@jretrading.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-21 19:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AkbX4-7gE-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223827 |
On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 09:14:36 -0500 John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote: > deloptes writes: > > Some 40-50y ago you did not like the word Neger, so it was replaced > > with Black. You did nothing all those 50y to change the perception > > of black. Now you have problem with the word Black > > Wrong. "Nigger" (a corruption of negro) was only used by whites and > always had derogatory connotations. "Black" originated with blacks > and has no derogatory connotations (except as used by racist whites > who would say "nigger" if they could get away with it). It is what > blacks I know call themselves. "African-american", on the other > hand, is a euphemism manufactured by liberal whites. I think it is to distinguish them from other dark brown people, the brown Asians, who don't seem to be involved in the Black thing. -- Joe
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| From | nemo <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-23 22:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AkY1H-2XQ-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223827 |
On Sun, 21 Jun 2020, John Hasler wrote: > deloptes writes: >> Some 40-50y ago you did not like the word Neger, so it was replaced >> with Black. You did nothing all those 50y to change the perception of >> black. Now you have problem with the word Black > > Wrong. "Nigger" (a corruption of negro) was only used by whites and > always had derogatory connotations. your memory is quite different from mine - the folks I grew up with used the word and weren't white. > "Black" originated with blacks and has no derogatory connotations again, very different from my memory of my parents' generation. the NAACP is an organization of 'colored' people. the valorization of 'black' came in the '60's the way 'queer' became positive. > (except as used by racist whites who would say "nigger" if they > could get away with it). in 'Huckleberry Finn' the run-away slave's name is 'Nigger Jim'. Conrad wrote the novel, 'The Nigger of the Narcissus' but right, certainly the word was not used with delicate feeling for the sensibilities of black people (apparently since the 1st third of the Nineteenth Century in the US). > It is what blacks I know call themselves. "African-american", on the > other hand, is a euphemism manufactured by liberal whites. or by Jessie Jackson: "A movement led by the Rev. Jesse Jackson to call blacks African-Americans has met with both rousing approval and deep-seated skepticism in a debate that is coming to symbolize the role and history of blacks in this country." <https://www.nytimes.com/1989/01/31/us/african-american-favored-by-many-of-america-s-blacks.html> fjd -- Felmon Davis Verbum sat sapienti
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-21 15:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Ak7Ts-4Ww-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223819 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 07:23:44AM -0400, Eike Lantzsch wrote: [...] > Hi also, > Yep, it is true that working on the symptoms does not cure the malady. [...] Thanks for this balanced assessment. IMO the important thing is the process. Of course, if we change language and nothing else then we have won very little. But talking about it, thinking about whether that language might be offensive to people in ways we can't understand (because we haven't their biography) is the important part. Cheers -- t
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| From | davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-21 18:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AkaxX-6iY-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223825 |
On Sun, 21 Jun 2020, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 07:23:44AM -0400, Eike Lantzsch wrote: > > [...] > >> Hi also, >> Yep, it is true that working on the symptoms does not cure the malady. > [...] > > Thanks for this balanced assessment. IMO the important thing is the > process. Of course, if we change language and nothing else then we > have won very little. No. Not very little. Rather, nothing at all. Indeed, you have lost before you even begin. Lip service is never a win. It is a defeat. A self-beclowning. The present navel-gazing, neurotic concern over a handful of terms in common use is just "freedom fries" by another name. The curtain has been opening wider and wider, turning a heretofore open secret into an outright public fact, to reveal just how little human life---all human life---is worth to the American Powers That Be. When you now drop lit matches into tinder, to predictably spark a distracting culture war, you play directly into their hands. At least one person in this thread has asked "But why now, all of a sudden"? "But Citizen, look yonder! A FIRE!" > But talking about it, thinking about whether that language might be > offensive to people in ways we can't understand (because we haven't > their biography) is the important part. Is this really the priority, of anyone who knows they're at war? At war and losing ground so badly, losing lives, for so long? To argue with their uncles about what to call a hard drive? I beg you, think this over carefully. -- @almightygenie 8 Jun 2020 | @Windex Thanks, Windex. That's a relief. Your drink is even more refreshing now that I know that it deplores racism & discrimination. twitter.com/almightygenie/status/1270096054864809988
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| From | mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-21 21:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AkdPc-8oq-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223656 |
On 2020-06-19 20:14, Eike Lantzsch wrote: > On the danger of starting a flame war ... > thinking about the article by Gunnar Wolf on Planet Debian > > instead of "whitelist" and "blacklist" I would like to propose the > terms: > "allowlist" and "rejectlist" > instead of (for example on disk drives) "master" and "slave" I like to > propose > the terms: > "lead" and "lag" which are e.g. used when electrically managing two > pumps > working on the same hydraulic circuit. > > What do you think? I think that by making conscious effort to avoid something you give it more prominence. Barbary pirates, Ottoman Empire enslaved over 2 million Europeans but you don't see their descendants so much because they were castrated. It really is not white man bad black man good. mick -- Key ID 4BFEBB31
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| From | John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-21 22:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AkeLg-y6-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223846 |
mick writes: > Barbary pirates, Ottoman Empire enslaved over 2 million Europeans but > you don't see their descendants so much because they were > castrated. It really is not white man bad black man good. During the same period European serfs were really slaves. During Roman and earlier times slavery was a commonplace social institution and the slaves were other Europeans who had been capture in wars. Athenian democracy was supported by slaves working the Athenian silver mines. Slavery was a universal part of human society throughout almost all of recorded history and probably for tens of thousands of years before then. I doubt that there is a human alive who does not have slave ancestors. -- John Hasler jhasler@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
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| From | davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-21 23:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Akfei-M7-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223850 |
On Sun, 21 Jun 2020, John Hasler wrote: > mick writes: >> Barbary pirates, Ottoman Empire enslaved over 2 million Europeans but >> you don't see their descendants so much because they were >> castrated. It really is not white man bad black man good. > > During the same period European serfs were really slaves. During Roman > and earlier times slavery was a commonplace social institution and the > slaves were other Europeans who had been capture in wars. Athenian > democracy was supported by slaves working the Athenian silver mines. > Slavery was a universal part of human society throughout almost all of > recorded history and probably for tens of thousands of years before > then. I doubt that there is a human alive who does not have slave > ancestors. US per-capita incarceration rate dwarfs that of any other country, as far as I know. Prison labor is institutionalised to the extent that a local jail is routinely refered to as "the workhouse". I have never heard of prisoners receiving anything but token compensation. Calling this slavery is no great stretch. Less of a stretch than calling it *not* slavery, or so it seems to me. -- @almightygenie 8 Jun 2020 | @Windex Thanks, Windex. That's a relief. Your drink is even more refreshing now that I know that it deplores racism & discrimination. twitter.com/almightygenie/status/1270096054864809988
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| From | mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-21 23:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AkfnX-14T-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223850 |
On 2020-06-21 21:24, John Hasler wrote: > mick writes: >> Barbary pirates, Ottoman Empire enslaved over 2 million Europeans but >> you don't see their descendants so much because they were >> castrated. It really is not white man bad black man good. > > During the same period European serfs were really slaves. During Roman > and earlier times slavery was a commonplace social institution and the > slaves were other Europeans who had been capture in wars. Athenian > democracy was supported by slaves working the Athenian silver mines. > Slavery was a universal part of human society throughout almost all of > recorded history and probably for tens of thousands of years before > then. I doubt that there is a human alive who does not have slave > ancestors. The tax system recognizes master / slave in employment as to whether you are freelance or employed, it's just a harsh description of relationships. mick -- Key ID 4BFEBB31
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