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Groups > linux.debian.user > #223656 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2020-06-19 21:20 +0200 |
| Last post | 2020-06-21 23:10 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 108 — 42 participants |
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technical terms overhaul Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2020-06-19 21:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-19 21:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-06-19 21:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-19 22:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-06-19 22:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul ghe2001 <ghe2001@protonmail.com> - 2020-06-19 22:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-06-19 22:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-06-19 22:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-06-20 02:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-06-20 05:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul ghe2001 <ghe2001@protonmail.com> - 2020-06-20 05:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-06-20 06:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-06-20 09:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-06-20 16:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 16:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-06-20 21:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-06-20 18:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-06-22 15:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-22 19:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Paul Johnson <baloo@ursamundi.org> - 2020-06-22 19:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-06-19 23:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 18:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-19 23:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-06-19 22:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-19 23:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2020-06-20 03:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul riveravaldez <riveravaldezmail@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 00:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-06-20 12:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2020-06-20 14:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-06-20 15:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-06-20 00:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-06-20 00:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 05:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-06-21 07:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 07:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Stephan Seitz <stse+debian@rootsland.net> - 2020-06-21 12:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul fmneto@gmail.com - 2020-06-19 21:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2020-06-19 22:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2020-06-19 23:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul elvis <elvis@dogonfire.com> - 2020-06-20 16:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-06-20 18:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Paul Johnson <baloo@ursamundi.org> - 2020-06-19 22:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2020-06-20 01:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 01:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 01:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 01:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2020-06-20 03:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 13:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-20 14:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 17:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2020-06-19 23:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Andrea Borgia <andrea@borgia.bo.it> - 2020-06-20 11:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-19 23:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-06-20 01:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2020-06-20 01:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-20 03:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson@freevolt.org - 2020-06-20 04:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-06-20 03:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2020-06-20 03:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul elvis <elvis@dogonfire.com> - 2020-06-20 16:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 19:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-20 20:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 22:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2020-06-20 20:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 22:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2020-06-20 23:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 23:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 05:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2020-06-21 08:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-06-21 09:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2020-06-21 11:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 11:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-06-20 21:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Francisco Mariano Neto <fmneto@usp.br> - 2020-06-20 21:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 22:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-06-20 21:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 23:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-06-21 08:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 08:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-06-21 19:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 22:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-06-20 22:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 23:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 07:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-06-21 17:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Rob van der Putten <rob@sput.nl> - 2020-06-21 12:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2020-06-21 13:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 14:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-06-21 14:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-06-21 16:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2020-06-21 17:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-06-21 16:20 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 19:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-06-21 19:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Peter Ehlert <peter@sdi-baja.com> - 2020-06-21 20:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2020-06-21 21:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2020-06-21 22:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2020-06-21 23:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-21 23:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson@freevolt.org - 2020-06-21 23:40 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-06-21 19:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul nemo <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2020-06-23 22:50 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-21 15:10 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-21 18:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 21:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-06-21 22:30 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-21 23:00 +0200
Re: technical terms overhaul mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 23:10 +0200
Page 4 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 Next page →
| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 19:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjPDc-2gT-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223726 |
elvis wrote: > Since the terms have nothing to do with race, then no. Are you proposing > to rename everything with the word black in it? Sometimes a cigar is > just a cigar. > > >> "allowlist" and "rejectlist" >> instead of (for example on disk drives) "master" and "slave" I like to >> propose the terms: > > But it is a master and slave relationship. So what? How is this related > in any way to human masters and slaves? I just decided to flag all of this as liberal trolling - I do not have a better or more politically correct approach of that. Unfortunately wide spread in computer societies - no idea how it will end. I recently demanded that companies/businesses and also our technically focused communities should not participate in such discussions, movements or whatever. The reason was LGBT inclusion movement in a company. I asked them how would they approach the fact that logically only one thing can be considered correct/normal (by logic and ontology there is either P or not P that can be true). If you consider LGBT to be normal, then all the rest is considered as not normal or vv. I asked what is coming next - pedos, canibals or other mental disorders. They asked me to delete the post and then deleted all posts - but not the LGBT/inclusion site ... Same here - resist for the sake of truth and logic. Otherwise we'll end up as the modern version of Daesh. Thank you for your opinion Thumbs up Regards
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 20:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjQfT-2IT-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223749 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 07:33:16PM +0200, deloptes wrote: > [...] (by logic and ontology there is either P or not P that can > be true). If you consider LGBT to be normal, then all the rest is > considered as not normal or vv. Wait a sec. This is getting really weird now. Logic doesn't care about your views. Too weird for me. I'm out. perhaps I should filter out your mails. -- t
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 22:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjShH-3TC-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223751 |
tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > Wait a sec. This is getting really weird now. Logic doesn't care about > your views. > Neither it cares about yours tomas. And regarding filtering out - I really can't tell - so why writing it down? I read yours with pleasure as far as they are of technical nature
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| From | "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 20:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjQIV-2Sk-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223749 |
Hi, deloptes wrote: > by logic and ontology there is either P or not P that can be true Any system of thought, which follows the principles of classical logic and which contains the usual math of natural numbers, contains statements which are neither true nor false. Kurt Goedel. Incompleteness theorem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Formally_Undecidable_Propositions_of_Principia_Mathematica_and_Related_Systems Whether the idea of the existence of ontology belongs to this category of statement still has to be decided. :)) After Goedel gave the project of logicism the kiss of death, the old idea of Pythagoras was revived that everything is a number. Further meanings and batteries are not included. Have a nice day :) Thomas
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 22:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjSrn-3WP-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223752 |
Thomas Schmitt wrote: > Any system of thought, which follows the principles of classical logic > and which contains the usual math of natural numbers, contains statements > which are neither true nor false. > Kurt Goedel. Incompleteness theorem. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Formally_Undecidable_Propositions_of_Principia_Mathematica_and_Related_Systems > > Whether the idea of the existence of ontology belongs to this category of > statement still has to be decided. :)) > After Goedel gave the project of logicism the kiss of death, the old idea > of Pythagoras was revived that everything is a number. Further meanings > and batteries are not included. > > > Have a nice day :) If you've been studying logic you would know better, but it is forgiven. Have a nice day too.
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| From | "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 23:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjT45-4px-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223766 |
Hi, i wrote: > > Kurt Goedel. Incompleteness theorem. deloptes wrote: > If you've been studying logic you would know better, Ahum. Which of the preconditions of the theorem are not fulfilled by the kind of logic you refer to ? - Can some of its true statements not be written down as finite sequences of symbols from a finite or countably infinte alphabet ? - Does it deny any of these fundamental properties of natural numbers: unlimited addition, multiplication as iteration of addition, prime numbers ? - Is it not compliant to classical logic, as used throughout mathematics until about 1930 ? Have a nice day :) Thomas
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 23:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjTdL-4sS-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223774 |
Thomas Schmitt wrote: > i wrote: >> > Kurt Goedel. Incompleteness theorem. > > deloptes wrote: >> If you've been studying logic you would know better, > Exactly you wrote Goedel - the science of logic did not end up with Goedel ... at least not for me ;-) But Thomas - I do not want to argue here - you understand may be better the notion of truth - or perhaps not. By terms of ontology there is only one truth right - even if we do not know what it is.
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| From | Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-21 05:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjYZQ-7Wx-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223752 |
On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 20:47:36 +0200 "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> wrote: > Hi, > > deloptes wrote: > > by logic and ontology there is either P or not P that can be true > > Any system of thought, which follows the principles of classical logic > and which contains the usual math of natural numbers, contains statements > which are neither true nor false. > Kurt Goedel. Incompleteness theorem. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Formally_Undecidable_Propositions_of_Principia_Mathematica_and_Related_Systems No - Gödel proved that any such (formal) system will contain statements such that neither they nor their negations are *provable within the system*. These statements are actually "true", using a normal definition of truth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems Celejar
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| From | "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-21 08:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Ak1uF-17L-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223794 |
Hi, i wrote: > > statements which are neither true nor false. > > Kurt Goedel. Incompleteness theorem. Celejar wrote: > No - Gödel proved that any such (formal) system will contain statements > such that neither they nor their negations are *provable within the > system*. These statements are actually "true", using a normal > definition of truth. A system which contains this "normal definition of truth" must itself contain statements which cannot be proven within that system - unless it is too weird to be written down or too dull for the theory of numbers. Consider the normal pitfall of philosophy to believe that human mind and reasoning can cope with everything. I.e. axioms are for cowards. So what does the free-wheeling philospher think about the truth of the following statement: "This statement itself is false." Have a nice day :) Thomas
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| From | Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-21 09:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Ak2K6-1Nr-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223804 |
Put more simply, every formal proof must contain at least one assumption and at least one undefined term. In practice, three undefined terms and three postulates is a fairly tight, well contained logical construct. "This statement is false" isn't really anything profound. It does illustrate there can exist internally inconsistent logical entities, but really it is merely an artifact of the situation that just because a string of words is grammatically correct does not imply it has any meaning. Is this really a good discussion for the Debian User list? On 6/21/2020 1:19 AM, Thomas Schmitt wrote: > Hi, > > i wrote: > >>> statements which are neither true nor false. >>> Kurt Goedel. Incompleteness theorem. > > Celejar wrote: >> No - Gödel proved that any such (formal) system will contain statements >> such that neither they nor their negations are *provable within the >> system*. These statements are actually "true", using a normal >> definition of truth. > > A system which contains this "normal definition of truth" must itself > contain statements which cannot be proven within that system - unless > it is too weird to be written down or too dull for the theory of numbers. > > Consider the normal pitfall of philosophy to believe that human mind > and reasoning can cope with everything. I.e. axioms are for cowards. > So what does the free-wheeling philospher think about the truth of the > following statement: > > "This statement itself is false." > > > Have a nice day :) > > Thomas >
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| From | "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-21 11:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Ak49b-2KF-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223812 |
Hi, Leslie Rhorer wrote: > "This statement is false" isn't really anything profound. It does > illustrate there can exist internally inconsistent logical entities, but > really it is merely an artifact of the situation that just because a string > of words is grammatically correct does not imply it has any meaning. Yes. Antinomies are painful and the reflex to call them meaningless is not far to seek. But the movement of logicism tried to rule out such statements and after decades of effort faded away, discouraged by the insight that no list of axioms can unambiguously identify the "meaningless" statements. In the end, we have to face the fact that there are statements which have no truth value. And that is what i wanted to emphasize to defute the argument that either "P" or "not P" must be true for all statements P. > Is this really a good discussion for the Debian User list? Probably not. But what else shall i do with my memories form a year of model theory lectures ? Have a nice day :) Thomas
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-21 11:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Ak4Ce-2TU-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223814 |
Thomas Schmitt wrote: > In the end, we have to face the fact that there are statements which > have no truth value. And that is what i wanted to emphasize to defute > the argument that either "P" or "not P" must be true for all statements P. Yes, taken out of context, thank you (very helpful)!
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| From | The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 21:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjQSB-2VE-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223749 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On 2020-06-20 at 13:33, deloptes wrote: > (by logic and ontology there is either P or not P that can be true). > If you consider LGBT to be normal, then all the rest is considered as > not normal or vv. By this same reasoning: * If you consider white to be normal, then all the rest (e.g., black) is considered to be not normal. * If you consider male to be normal, then all the rest (e.g., female) is considered to be not normal. * If you consider right-handed to be normal, then all the rest (e.g., left-handed) is considered to be not normal. In reality, of course, in each of those cases there are multiple distinguishable things which all fall within the range of what is considered "normal". There is no inherent reason why the same could not apply to the context you cite. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
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| From | Francisco Mariano Neto <fmneto@usp.br> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 21:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjRvj-3o2-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223753 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
Wow, lots of responses here! Going back to a more productive approach, let me suggest another pair: yes-list and no-list. It's easy to understand, non-dubious, and easily translated. []'s Francisco Em sáb, 20 de jun de 2020 15:54, The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> escreveu: > On 2020-06-20 at 13:33, deloptes wrote: > > > (by logic and ontology there is either P or not P that can be true). > > If you consider LGBT to be normal, then all the rest is considered as > > not normal or vv. > > By this same reasoning: > > * If you consider white to be normal, then all the rest (e.g., black) is > considered to be not normal. > > * If you consider male to be normal, then all the rest (e.g., female) is > considered to be not normal. > > * If you consider right-handed to be normal, then all the rest (e.g., > left-handed) is considered to be not normal. > > In reality, of course, in each of those cases there are multiple > distinguishable things which all fall within the range of what is > considered "normal". > > There is no inherent reason why the same could not apply to the context > you cite. > > -- > The Wanderer > > The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one > persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all > progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw > >
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 22:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjSB4-40b-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223753 |
The Wanderer wrote: > * If you consider white to be normal, then all the rest (e.g., black) is > considered to be not normal. > > * If you consider male to be normal, then all the rest (e.g., female) is > considered to be not normal. > > * If you consider right-handed to be normal, then all the rest (e.g., > left-handed) is considered to be not normal. > > In reality, of course, in each of those cases there are multiple > distinguishable things which all fall within the range of what is > considered "normal". > > There is no inherent reason why the same could not apply to the context > you cite. Bingo! Exactly this is the point. It is not about being black or white. You are mixing the levels of logic to operate at. You are not above the ontology - that is the given by God or Nature (as you wish). Being black or white, male or female is Ontology - you are born like this. The problems arise at lower levels where we try to meet an agreement what is normal and not (deontic/epistemic). I once did a research how the great minds of the 19th century came to light. You know how the school system looked like? 1. 2y Latin Grammar 2. 2y Logic 3. 2y Rhetoric explained 1. You can't talk if you don't know the language 2. Even if you know the language you can not put forward meaningful statements if you don't know logic 3. even if you know the language and you know logic, you can not lead a dispute if you do not know rhetoric I am afraid people miss that a lot. Let me ask you how many of you did have Logic at school?
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| From | Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 21:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjRvk-3o2-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223749 |
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On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 19:33:16 +0200
deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello deloptes,
>be true). If you consider LGBT to be normal, then all the rest is
>considered as not normal or vv.
{leaving aside that language isn't maths, binary logic doesn't apply to
people, and any other canard you care to take a swing at}
That's why the term used most often now is LGBTQ+, which includes more
sexualities. The goalposts are still moving, however.
Above info received from my daughter.
OMG! Did I just assume their gender?
....
No, I checked: She identifies as female.
--
Regards _
/ ) "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)rad never immediately apparent"
We don't need no-one to tell us what's right or wrong
The Modern World - The Jam
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-20 23:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AjSKK-43r-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223760 |
Brad Rogers wrote:
> {leaving aside that language isn't maths, binary logic doesn't apply to
> people, and any other canard you care to take a swing at}
>
> That's why the term used most often now is LGBTQ+, which includes more
> sexualities. The goalposts are still moving, however.
>
> Above info received from my daughter.
>
> OMG! Did I just assume their gender?
I know I know - but no one cares. In 100y it will be all gone because the
truth is 99% is male or female and the rest is joke of nature - again pure
ontology.
The wanna bes are candidates for the psychologist.
You didn't miss anything important - just the blow of the wind.
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| From | Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-21 08:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Ak1bj-M4-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223769 |
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On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 22:49:45 +0200
deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello deloptes,
>I know I know - but no one cares. I
So very true. How's the slave trade going?
--
Regards _
/ ) "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)rad never immediately apparent"
I'm in need of your help now
Burn - Judgement Centre
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-21 08:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Ak1O2-1dW-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223801 |
Brad Rogers wrote: > Hello deloptes, > >>I know I know - but no one cares. I > > So very true. How's the slave trade going? When you look at Saudi Arabia and alike (Israel is not better)- it works just fine. Also in the west - in example all the companies that use child labor. So you (I dare to call you all cowards) do not stand up against modern day slavery, but destroy history and try to change change language. You are miserable mob!
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| From | Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-06-21 19:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Akcgq-7n9-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #223807 |
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On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 08:36:33 +0200
deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello deloptes,
I'm simply going to ignore most of what you wrote, but this, I won't
pass by;
>just fine. Also in the west - in example all the companies that use
>child labor.
>So you (I dare to call you all cowards) do not stand up against modern
To say I do nothing about it makes assumptions about me based on no
evidence whatsoever. To include 'everybody' in your assumption of
'laissez-faire' is even more offensive. You have no idea what all other
individual's activities are.
AFAIAC, EOT.
--
Regards _
/ ) "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)rad never immediately apparent"
My limbs are like palm trees swaying in the breeze
Mirage - Siouxsie & The Banshees
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