Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > linux.debian.user > #222434 > unrolled thread

Smallest Usable EFI Partition?

Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user

Contents

  Smallest Usable EFI Partition? Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2020-05-13 00:30 +0200
    Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition? Andrea Borgia <andrea@borgia.bo.it> - 2020-05-13 00:40 +0200
      Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition? "Rick Thomas" <rick.thomas@pobox.com> - 2020-05-13 02:40 +0200
        Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition? Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2020-05-13 07:40 +0200
          Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition? Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2020-05-13 20:40 +0200
            Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition? Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2020-05-13 21:10 +0200
            Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-05-13 21:20 +0200
        Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition? Andrea Borgia <andrea@borgia.bo.it> - 2020-05-13 09:20 +0200
          Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition? Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2020-05-13 20:40 +0200
        Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition? Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2020-05-13 20:40 +0200
      Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-05-13 13:50 +0200
        Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition? Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2020-05-14 18:30 +0200
          Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition? Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2020-05-14 21:00 +0200
      Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition? Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2020-05-13 20:30 +0200
        Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-05-14 04:20 +0200
    Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition? Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2020-05-13 14:40 +0200
      Re: Smallest Usable EFI Partition? Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2020-05-13 20:20 +0200

#222434 — Smallest Usable EFI Partition?

Hi! All,

I can't find anything definitive on this question.  Some say, 100MB is
fine; others 215 or 550 is a safe choice.  It all seems to be just
opinions.

Anyone know for sure? I hate having to waste hundreds of megs for a
partition that only needs to hold a few megs, if that much.

This applies to one of those small, $300+/- notebooks (haven't decided
which one, yet) that usually use 32 or 64GB eMMCs.  I'm trying to
maximize the available free space. Best option seems to be a MBR
install, one OS only (Buster, X, window manager only, etc.), / and
swap.  But if that's not possible . . . .  Hence, my query.

Thanks.

B

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#222435

Il 13/05/20 00:21, Patrick Bartek ha scritto:


> I can't find anything definitive on this question.  Some say, 100MB is
> fine; others 215 or 550 is a safe choice.  It all seems to be just
> opinions.

I had the same doubts about a year ago and went with the recommendation 
of a larger partition, about 500MB... of which only 6% is used.

My office laptop with Windows10 has something in the region of 100MB but 
it is not dualboot.

Debian uses about 6MB, MS about 26MB, plus a couple of megs for boot.
If space is really tight you might want to stick with 100MB in total.

HTH,
Andrea.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#222436

On Tue, May 12, 2020, at 3:37 PM, Andrea Borgia wrote:
> Il 13/05/20 00:21, Patrick Bartek ha scritto:
> > I can't find anything definitive on this question.  Some say, 100MB is
> > fine; others 215 or 550 is a safe choice.  It all seems to be just
> > opinions.
> I had the same doubts about a year ago and went with the recommendation 
> of a larger partition, about 500MB... of which only 6% is used.
> My office laptop with Windows10 has something in the region of 100MB but 
> it is not dualboot.
> Debian uses about 6MB, MS about 26MB, plus a couple of megs for boot.
> If space is really tight you might want to stick with 100MB in total.

One thing to keep in mind is that, when the contents are being updated, the EFI partition and the /boot partition if you have one, will need space for two (or even more) copies of stuff.  So don't be too stingy!

Stay well, stay safe!
Rick

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#222444

Rick Thomas <rick.thomas@pobox.com> wrote:
> On Tue, May 12, 2020, at 3:37 PM, Andrea Borgia wrote:
>> Il 13/05/20 00:21, Patrick Bartek ha scritto:

>> > I can't find anything definitive on this question.  Some say, 100MB
>> > is fine; others 215 or 550 is a safe choice.  It all seems to be
>> > just opinions.

>> I had the same doubts about a year ago and went with the
>> recommendation of a larger partition, about 500MB... of which only 6%
>> is used.  My office laptop with Windows10 has something in the region
>> of 100MB but it is not dualboot.  Debian uses about 6MB, MS about
>> 26MB, plus a couple of megs for boot.  If space is really tight you
>> might want to stick with 100MB in total.

> One thing to keep in mind is that, when the contents are being
> updated, the EFI partition and the /boot partition if you have one,
> will need space for two (or even more) copies of stuff.  So don't be
> too stingy!

Also Firmware/BIOS update are often put onto there nowadays to be
installed on next reboot.

Grüße,
Sven.

-- 
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#222467

On Wed, 13 May 2020 07:38:00 +0200
Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> wrote:

> Rick Thomas <rick.thomas@pobox.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, May 12, 2020, at 3:37 PM, Andrea Borgia wrote:  
> >> Il 13/05/20 00:21, Patrick Bartek ha scritto:  
> 
> >> > I can't find anything definitive on this question.  Some say, 100MB
> >> > is fine; others 215 or 550 is a safe choice.  It all seems to be
> >> > just opinions.  
> 
> >> I had the same doubts about a year ago and went with the
> >> recommendation of a larger partition, about 500MB... of which only 6%
> >> is used.  My office laptop with Windows10 has something in the region
> >> of 100MB but it is not dualboot.  Debian uses about 6MB, MS about
> >> 26MB, plus a couple of megs for boot.  If space is really tight you
> >> might want to stick with 100MB in total.  
> 
> > One thing to keep in mind is that, when the contents are being
> > updated, the EFI partition and the /boot partition if you have one,
> > will need space for two (or even more) copies of stuff.  So don't be
> > too stingy!  
> 
> Also Firmware/BIOS update are often put onto there nowadays to be
> installed on next reboot.

Aren't such updates stored still in /boot?  Or has that changed with
efi?

B

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#222470

Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 May 2020 07:38:00 +0200 Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> wrote:

>> Also Firmware/BIOS update are often put onto there nowadays to be
>> installed on next reboot.

> Aren't such updates stored still in /boot?  Or has that changed with
> efi?

For my Dell Precision 7520 I can either put them on a USB-key and
manually initiate the upgrade during boot (how barbaric) or put the
update file on the ESP and have it done automatically.

fwupd also does it this way.

Grüße,
Sven.

-- 
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#222471

On Wed 13 May 2020 at 11:37:31 (-0700), Patrick Bartek wrote:
> On Wed, 13 May 2020 07:38:00 +0200 Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> wrote:
> > Rick Thomas <rick.thomas@pobox.com> wrote:
> > > On Tue, May 12, 2020, at 3:37 PM, Andrea Borgia wrote:  
> > >> Il 13/05/20 00:21, Patrick Bartek ha scritto:  
> > 
> > >> > I can't find anything definitive on this question.  Some say, 100MB
> > >> > is fine; others 215 or 550 is a safe choice.  It all seems to be
> > >> > just opinions.  
> > 
> > >> I had the same doubts about a year ago and went with the
> > >> recommendation of a larger partition, about 500MB... of which only 6%
> > >> is used.  My office laptop with Windows10 has something in the region
> > >> of 100MB but it is not dualboot.  Debian uses about 6MB, MS about
> > >> 26MB, plus a couple of megs for boot.  If space is really tight you
> > >> might want to stick with 100MB in total.  
> > 
> > > One thing to keep in mind is that, when the contents are being
> > > updated, the EFI partition and the /boot partition if you have one,
> > > will need space for two (or even more) copies of stuff.  So don't be
> > > too stingy!  
> > 
> > Also Firmware/BIOS update are often put onto there nowadays to be
> > installed on next reboot.
> 
> Aren't such updates stored still in /boot?  Or has that changed with
> efi?

Were they ever? I don't see how the hardware/firmware would read them
from some foreign filesystem. OTOH with EFI, it knows the filesystem
will be FAT.

Cheers,
David.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#222447

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Update:older laptop had 100MB, the current one apparently has more than
500MB but I am not sure whether that holds the recovery image as well or
not.

Anyhow, the caveat for multiple copies is valid for /boot, where kernels
live. AFAIK, /boot/EFI is fairly constant in space utilization... I have
only that as a separate partition, though, the rest of /boot lives in the
main partition.


Il giorno mer 13 mag 2020 alle ore 02:36 Rick Thomas <rick.thomas@pobox.com>
ha scritto:

> On Tue, May 12, 2020, at 3:37 PM, Andrea Borgia wrote:
> > Il 13/05/20 00:21, Patrick Bartek ha scritto:
> > > I can't find anything definitive on this question.  Some say, 100MB is
> > > fine; others 215 or 550 is a safe choice.  It all seems to be just
> > > opinions.
> > I had the same doubts about a year ago and went with the recommendation
> > of a larger partition, about 500MB... of which only 6% is used.
> > My office laptop with Windows10 has something in the region of 100MB but
> > it is not dualboot.
> > Debian uses about 6MB, MS about 26MB, plus a couple of megs for boot.
> > If space is really tight you might want to stick with 100MB in total.
>
> One thing to keep in mind is that, when the contents are being updated,
> the EFI partition and the /boot partition if you have one, will need space
> for two (or even more) copies of stuff.  So don't be too stingy!
>
> Stay well, stay safe!
> Rick
>
>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#222466

On Wed, 13 May 2020 09:16:33 +0200
Andrea Borgia <andrea@borgia.bo.it> wrote:

> Update:older laptop had 100MB, the current one apparently has more than
> 500MB but I am not sure whether that holds the recovery image as well or
> not.
> 
> Anyhow, the caveat for multiple copies is valid for /boot, where kernels
> live. AFAIK, /boot/EFI is fairly constant in space utilization... I have
> only that as a separate partition, though, the rest of /boot lives in the
> main partition.

Thanks for the info.  I don't intend to have a separate /boot
partiion.  Wastes too much space.

B

> 
> Il giorno mer 13 mag 2020 alle ore 02:36 Rick Thomas <rick.thomas@pobox.com>
> ha scritto:
> 
> > On Tue, May 12, 2020, at 3:37 PM, Andrea Borgia wrote:  
> > > Il 13/05/20 00:21, Patrick Bartek ha scritto:  
> > > > I can't find anything definitive on this question.  Some say, 100MB is
> > > > fine; others 215 or 550 is a safe choice.  It all seems to be just
> > > > opinions.  
> > > I had the same doubts about a year ago and went with the recommendation
> > > of a larger partition, about 500MB... of which only 6% is used.
> > > My office laptop with Windows10 has something in the region of 100MB but
> > > it is not dualboot.
> > > Debian uses about 6MB, MS about 26MB, plus a couple of megs for boot.
> > > If space is really tight you might want to stick with 100MB in total.  
> >
> > One thing to keep in mind is that, when the contents are being updated,
> > the EFI partition and the /boot partition if you have one, will need space
> > for two (or even more) copies of stuff.  So don't be too stingy!
> >
> > Stay well, stay safe!
> > Rick
> >
> >  

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#222468

On Tue, 12 May 2020 17:17:29 -0700
"Rick Thomas" <rick.thomas@pobox.com> wrote:

> On Tue, May 12, 2020, at 3:37 PM, Andrea Borgia wrote:
> > Il 13/05/20 00:21, Patrick Bartek ha scritto:  
> > > I can't find anything definitive on this question.  Some say, 100MB is
> > > fine; others 215 or 550 is a safe choice.  It all seems to be just
> > > opinions.  
> > I had the same doubts about a year ago and went with the recommendation 
> > of a larger partition, about 500MB... of which only 6% is used.
> > My office laptop with Windows10 has something in the region of 100MB but 
> > it is not dualboot.
> > Debian uses about 6MB, MS about 26MB, plus a couple of megs for boot.
> > If space is really tight you might want to stick with 100MB in total.  
> 
> One thing to keep in mind is that, when the contents are being updated, the
> EFI partition and the /boot partition if you have one, will need space
> for two (or even more) copies of stuff.  So don't be too stingy!

Thanks.  I hadn't considered the extra space that might be needed during
update/upgrades, etc.

B

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#222455

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 12:37:52AM +0200, Andrea Borgia wrote:
> Debian uses about 6MB, MS about 26MB, plus a couple of megs for boot.
> If space is really tight you might want to stick with 100MB in total.

My current desktop PC is an HP Pavilion that came pre-loaded with
Windows.  I added Debian to it, but left the Windows stuff sitting
around just in case.  The EFI partition is 256 MB, and the space is
used thus:

unicorn:~$ sudo sh -c 'du -sh /boot/efi/EFI/*'
1.2M	/boot/efi/EFI/Boot
41M	/boot/efi/EFI/HP
25M	/boot/efi/EFI/Microsoft
5.1M	/boot/efi/EFI/debian

I have no idea what the "HP" directory is for.  Here's what's in the
next level down:

unicorn:~$ sudo ls -l /boot/efi/EFI/HP
total 12
drwx------ 5 root root 4096 Oct 13  2017 BIOS
drwx------ 2 root root 4096 Oct 13  2017 BIOSUpdate
drwx------ 2 root root 4096 Oct 13  2017 SystemDiags

So, obviously the size of the EFI partition is going to depend on what
you intend to put (or leave) in it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#222501

On 13/05/20 11:41 pm, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> unicorn:~$ sudo sh -c 'du -sh /boot/efi/EFI/*'
> 1.2M	/boot/efi/EFI/Boot
> 41M	/boot/efi/EFI/HP
> 25M	/boot/efi/EFI/Microsoft
> 5.1M	/boot/efi/EFI/debian
> 
> I have no idea what the "HP" directory is for.  Here's what's in the
> next level down:
> 
> unicorn:~$ sudo ls -l /boot/efi/EFI/HP
> total 12
> drwx------ 5 root root 4096 Oct 13  2017 BIOS
> drwx------ 2 root root 4096 Oct 13  2017 BIOSUpdate
> drwx------ 2 root root 4096 Oct 13  2017 SystemDiags

Really handy for upgrading the BIOS/whatever when the only alternative
is a Windows executable. Unfortunately I'm not good at making notes, so
I have to figure out how that works each time I try :-)

I think it involves dropping a file in there somewhere (BIOS/New, I
think), then booting into the setup system to upgrade.

On my ProBook 430 G3, anyway.

Richard

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#222506

On 14.05.20 18:22, Richard Hector wrote:
> Really handy for upgrading the BIOS/whatever when the only alternative
> is a Windows executable. Unfortunately I'm not good at making notes, so
> I have to figure out how that works each time I try :-)

I am searching for this! I have the BIOSupgrade.exe from the laptop 
manufacturer, but no Windows OS to run it from. If you would find the 
instructions or could recommend some links to study, please let me know, 
so that I could do it also from Linux!!
Thanks in advance, Marco.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#222465

On Wed, 13 May 2020 00:37:52 +0200
Andrea Borgia <andrea@borgia.bo.it> wrote:

> Il 13/05/20 00:21, Patrick Bartek ha scritto:
> 
> 
> > I can't find anything definitive on this question.  Some say, 100MB is
> > fine; others 215 or 550 is a safe choice.  It all seems to be just
> > opinions.  
> 
> I had the same doubts about a year ago and went with the recommendation 
> of a larger partition, about 500MB... of which only 6% is used.

The 500MB recommendation is to assure FAT32 is used when formatting or
so I've read.

If you have a very large disk, 500MB is insignificant, but if I can use
less like 100MB or 50MB on a basic one OS/one kernel system with only a
32GB eMMC that's a lot space not wasted.

> My office laptop with Windows10 has something in the region of 100MB but 
> it is not dualboot.
> 
> Debian uses about 6MB, MS about 26MB, plus a couple of megs for boot.
> If space is really tight you might want to stick with 100MB in total.

Thanks for the recommendation.

B

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#222475

On Wed 13 May 2020 at 11:24:54 (-0700), Patrick Bartek wrote:
> On Wed, 13 May 2020 00:37:52 +0200 Andrea Borgia <andrea@borgia.bo.it> wrote:
> > Il 13/05/20 00:21, Patrick Bartek ha scritto:
> > 
> > > I can't find anything definitive on this question.  Some say, 100MB is
> > > fine; others 215 or 550 is a safe choice.  It all seems to be just
> > > opinions.  

How could it be otherwise—nobody else knows how many different OSes
etc you're going to install on the machine.

Similarly, nobody call tell you the right size for your root
filesystem—I'm generous with mine because I have had anywhere
between 5GB and 20GB in /var/cache/apt-cacher-ng/.

> > I had the same doubts about a year ago and went with the recommendation 
> > of a larger partition, about 500MB... of which only 6% is used.
> 
> The 500MB recommendation is to assure FAT32 is used when formatting or
> so I've read.

I don't see why that is any guarantee against, say, a FAT16 filesystem
of any size up to 2GB.

> If you have a very large disk, 500MB is insignificant, but if I can use
> less like 100MB or 50MB on a basic one OS/one kernel system with only a
> 32GB eMMC that's a lot space not wasted.
> 
> > My office laptop with Windows10 has something in the region of 100MB but 
> > it is not dualboot.
> > 
> > Debian uses about 6MB, MS about 26MB, plus a couple of megs for boot.
> > If space is really tight you might want to stick with 100MB in total.

I'd broadly agree with those figures as long as by "boot" you mean
/boot/efi/EFI/BOOT. I get:

3.9M    /boot/efi/EFI/BOOT
5.1M    /boot/efi/EFI/debian

on a Debian-only PC and:

29M     /swan/swan02/

on a Windows10-EFI laptop.

/boot itself is another matter. Thanks to the recent point release,
/boot on the Debian-only PC currently stands at 126MB. But that's
obviously no problem if you're not separating it.

Cheers,
David.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#222456

nemommxiv@gmail.com wrote:
>
>I can't find anything definitive on this question.  Some say, 100MB is
>fine; others 215 or 550 is a safe choice.  It all seems to be just
>opinions.
>
>Anyone know for sure? I hate having to waste hundreds of megs for a
>partition that only needs to hold a few megs, if that much.
>
>This applies to one of those small, $300+/- notebooks (haven't decided
>which one, yet) that usually use 32 or 64GB eMMCs.  I'm trying to
>maximize the available free space. Best option seems to be a MBR
>install, one OS only (Buster, X, window manager only, etc.), / and
>swap.  But if that's not possible . . . .  Hence, my query.

In Debian we've followed recommendations to use 500M as a default
size. That may often be larger than people need, but it's safe in case
people are dual-booting and/or doing firmware updates later. It's
likely to be difficult to resize after the fact.

You can choose a smaller size *at your own risk*, but d-i will
complain a lot if you try to go very small, below ~32MiB.

HTH!

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                steve@einval.com
  Armed with "Valor": "Centurion" represents quality of Discipline,
  Honor, Integrity and Loyalty. Now you don't have to be a Caesar to
  concord the digital world while feeling safe and proud.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#222464

On Wed, 13 May 2020 12:33:32 +0000
Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> wrote:

> nemommxiv@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >I can't find anything definitive on this question.  Some say, 100MB is
> >fine; others 215 or 550 is a safe choice.  It all seems to be just
> >opinions.
> >
> >Anyone know for sure? I hate having to waste hundreds of megs for a
> >partition that only needs to hold a few megs, if that much.
> >
> >This applies to one of those small, $300+/- notebooks (haven't decided
> >which one, yet) that usually use 32 or 64GB eMMCs.  I'm trying to
> >maximize the available free space. Best option seems to be a MBR
> >install, one OS only (Buster, X, window manager only, etc.), / and
> >swap.  But if that's not possible . . . .  Hence, my query.  
> 
> In Debian we've followed recommendations to use 500M as a default
> size. That may often be larger than people need, but it's safe in case
> people are dual-booting and/or doing firmware updates later. It's
> likely to be difficult to resize after the fact.

The reason I've read for the ~500MB size is to assure FAT32 when
formatting the partition as using less can cause problems with Linux
efi installs.

> You can choose a smaller size *at your own risk*, but d-i will
> complain a lot if you try to go very small, below ~32MiB.

Isn't everything one does "at your own risk?" :) Some social fanatics
believe otherwise, but they'd be wrong.

B

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Back to top | Article view | linux.debian.user

csiph-web