Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints"

From	Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints"
Date	2019-08-20 17:30 +0200
Message-ID	<yxef7-4fB-5@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(4 earlier) <ywX4C-1RQ-15@gated-at.bofh.it> <ywXeh-1Vb-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <yxaEy-1W5-17@gated-at.bofh.it> <yxdCr-3M3-23@gated-at.bofh.it> <yxdM6-3PI-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 05:57:40PM +0300, Reco wrote:
>On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 10:48:44AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 07:31:57AM -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:
>> > If you setup your DNS properly create SPF an DKIM almost all
>> > providers will accept your email IF (and that's a very big if)
>> > you do not spam.
>>
>> That's a nice idea, but simply not true. You'll be ok right up until
>> you aren't, and as a small site you have no recourse to find out what
>> the problem is.
>
>Such statement is incomplete without some examples.
>Judging from your long history of contribution at Debian project,
>surely you have some that can be shared with the list.

It's really hard to share specific examples without naming domains, so 
no. In general terms, It's almost unheard of to get any kind of response 
from the RFC-standard postmaster@ address these days. Most of the time, 
the best you can hope for is a bounce (rather than your message silently 
going into the recipient's spam box). If you're lucky the bounce will 
say something like "sender on blacklist X". If blacklist X is reasonably 
well known you can probably verify that the sender is on blacklist X. If 
you ask blacklist X why the sender is on the blacklist you'll get no 
response. Maybe something misattributed a spoofed email (relatively few 
sites actually care about SPF etc so spoofs are still extremely common), 
maybe someone hit the spam button accidently, maybe somebody doesn't 
like your ISP, maybe they don't like your country, who knows? At that 
point you descend into a shady world of extortion schemes, and need to 
make decisions about whether to pay third parties to "certify" your 
domain to a blacklist. In the old days losing an email was considered 
unacceptible; these days, there is so much junk that false positives are 
expected and routine. Yeah, I've been doing this for a long time--more 
than 20 years of dealing with email servers--but I don't really think 
email in its traditional form will exist much longer. Heck, there are 
even debian contributors whose personal email domains bounce emails from 
other debian contributors. Who knows if they're even aware of that?

Thread

Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-08-19 20:40 +0200
  Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Michael Howard <mike@dewberryfields.co.uk> - 2019-08-19 20:50 +0200
  Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-19 22:30 +0200
    Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-08-19 22:50 +0200
      Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Christopher Marlow <debian@cwm030.com> - 2019-08-19 23:10 +0200
        Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-08-19 23:20 +0200
          Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2019-08-20 13:40 +0200
            Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-08-20 14:40 +0200
            Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-08-20 16:50 +0200
              Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-20 17:00 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-08-20 17:30 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-20 18:20 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2019-08-20 19:00 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-08-20 19:30 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it> - 2019-08-21 16:50 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-08-21 16:50 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-08-21 17:30 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2019-08-21 19:50 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-20 19:30 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2019-08-20 19:50 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-20 20:20 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2019-08-20 20:50 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-20 21:40 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2019-08-21 19:20 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-21 21:10 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-08-21 21:40 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-21 22:10 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-08-21 23:30 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-21 23:40 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-08-21 22:10 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-08-21 22:20 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" elvis <elvis@dogonfire.com> - 2019-08-20 23:50 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-08-21 02:00 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2019-08-21 19:30 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" elvis <elvis@dogonfire.com> - 2019-08-23 10:00 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-08-20 22:00 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2019-08-21 19:50 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-08-20 21:20 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2019-08-21 20:20 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-08-20 19:30 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-20 19:50 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-08-20 21:50 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-20 22:20 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-08-20 23:20 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it> - 2019-08-21 17:40 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-08-21 18:00 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-20 20:40 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Dan Clery <dan@savevsgeek.com> - 2019-08-20 21:00 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-08-20 21:40 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-20 22:10 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-08-20 20:50 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-08-21 19:00 +0200
                Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-08-21 20:50 +0200
  Re: Solution to "pathetic email complaints" mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-08-20 16:20 +0200

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