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Groups > linux.debian.user > #211293

Re: Don't disable recoomends by default

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On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 09:13:29AM -0300, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> Quoting Reco (2019-07-12 09:01:33)
> > > > Disabling installing Recommends by default also helps a great deal 
> > > > with all those dependencies you don't want.
> > > 
> > > Above may break your system in confusing to debug ways,
> > 
> > Rly? Recommends are called that for a reason.
> 
> Yes, and the reason is well defined: Packages requires in "all but 
> unusual installations." - quoted from Debian Policy §7.2.

This only shows us that one can prove anything by using selective
quoting. Full quote, btw is:

This declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency.
The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together
with this one in all but unusual installations.


Therefore Debian Policy explicitly says that Recommends are not
required.


> > If Recommend is actually needed for the correct functioning of the
> > package - it's a bug in a package.
> 
> Wrong.  If a package is possibly to use for any purpose at all, even if 
> exotic and unusual, then it makes sense to recommend instead of depend 
> on a package.

Let's take everyone's favorite package, systemd.
It's Recommends as of stretch are libpam-systemd and dbus.
Both are not required for the OS to boot and systemd to function. Also,
they are optional for the users' login.
Moreover, there's no need for both libpam-systemd and dbus to be
installed on a typical server (be it file server, print server, db
server or a web server).
Of course, if server environment is "exotic and unusual" to someone -
that's an entirely different matter.


> > Recommends are useful sometime, and it's a useful default to install 
> > them. But it comes with the cost and the cost is a dependency bloat.
> 
> Wrong.  Suggests are for packages useful only "sometimes", recommends 
> are for pacakges needed in "all but unusual installations."

See above.

Reco

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useless languages Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2019-07-12 13:10 +0200
  Re: useless languages Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-12 13:10 +0200
    Re: useless languages Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-07-12 13:40 +0200
      Re: useless languages Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-12 14:10 +0200
        Don't disable recoomends by default Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-07-12 14:20 +0200
          Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Stephan Seitz <stse+debian@fsing.rootsland.net> - 2019-07-12 14:40 +0200
            Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-07-12 17:20 +0200
              Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-07-12 17:30 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-07-12 19:00 +0200
              Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Urs Thuermann <urs@isnogud.escape.de> - 2019-08-05 23:10 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-08-05 23:50 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-08-06 07:50 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-06 12:10 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-08-06 09:40 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-06 20:50 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-08-07 09:20 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-06 13:20 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-06 15:00 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-06 20:00 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-06 21:50 +0200
          Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-12 14:40 +0200
            Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-07-12 17:30 +0200
              Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-07-12 19:20 +0200
              Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-12 19:30 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-07-12 20:00 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-07-12 23:20 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-07-12 23:40 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default John Crawley <john@bunsenlabs.org> - 2019-07-13 04:00 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-07-13 04:30 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Urs Thuermann <urs@isnogud.escape.de> - 2019-08-05 23:10 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-08-05 23:30 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-07-12 23:50 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-07-13 06:50 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-07-13 10:40 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-07-13 14:00 +0200
                Re: Don't disable recoomends by default mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-08-06 09:40 +0200
  Re: useless languages David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2019-07-13 04:30 +0200
    Re: useless languages Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> - 2019-07-13 09:30 +0200
    Re: useless languages Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2019-07-13 16:30 +0200
  Re: useless localisation files Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-07-13 06:40 +0200

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