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Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd)

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On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 09:43:36 +0200
didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> wrote:

> Le 03/06/2019 à 07:23, Patrick Bartek a écrit :
> [...]
> > The install includes lots of choices [...] So, why not
> > init?  
> 
> I think a Debian maintainer had answered in the past something like
> while not using systemd himself, he admitted the perceived percentage of
> Debian anti-systemd users was not so important to justify it, because
> one can relatively easily desinstall systemd and install sysv after install.

That's what they said, yes, among other things.  But when your default
desktop environment GNOME has systemd (or parts of it) as a dependency,
and as time is money, the developers took the path of least
resistance.

No, you can't uninstall all of systemd easily and still have the system
work: too many dependency issues.  You can, however, easily replace
systemd-init with sysvinit while leaving systemd libraries still
installed.  In fact, the process in documented in the install docs
which is what I finally decided to do after lots of research and trial
installs.

Some had suggested I go with Devuan, if I wanted to be free of systemd,
but at the time -- a couple years ago -- Devuan IMHO wasn't ready for
prime time.

> It seems that you do not even need to install systemd (as the init
> system) at all during a fresh install (if you don't install a full blown
> DE)?
>    https://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Installing_without_systemd

Now that I look at it, I read that years ago, but all the preseeding
does is install sysvinit after the system install with systemd is
complete. Just as easy to do it manually.  To make as basic a system
as possible, I started with a terminal only install, switched to
sysvinit, and installed only what I needed, component by component.

> [...]
> > I'm not against systemd, per se, just against having it forced on me
> > by way of dependencies. I don't think the init should ever be a
> > dependency. Of anything.  
> [...]
> for a modern DE at least, systemd seems to be a requirement, but not as
> an init system?
>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#Ancillary_components

Unfortuanately, as all those ancillary components are not
independent but interrelated, you're going to get unexpected
systemd "gotchas" just as I did with wicd.  I solved it by picking
another wifi manager which really has no relations to GNOME or systemd.

B

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Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) bw <bwtnguy@yahoo.com> - 2019-05-28 18:50 +0200
  Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2019-05-29 20:20 +0200
    Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-06-02 07:50 +0200
      Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2019-06-03 07:40 +0200
        Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2019-06-03 10:10 +0200
          Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2019-06-03 10:40 +0200
            Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 06:40 +0200
          Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-06-03 13:10 +0200
          Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 06:30 +0200
            Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-06-18 19:20 +0200
        Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-06-03 15:00 +0200
          Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-06-03 15:30 +0200
            Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-06-03 15:50 +0200
              Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-06-03 16:40 +0200
                Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-06-03 17:00 +0200
        Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-06-18 19:20 +0200

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