Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > linux.debian.user > #209542

Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd)

Show all headers | View raw

On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 00:29:30 -0500
David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:

> On Wed 29 May 2019 at 11:01:58 (-0700), Patrick Bartek wrote:
> 
> > Is Debian slowly becoming systemd proprietary?  It would be a great
> > loss to Linux and its philosophy if true.  But that looks to be the
> > direction Debian is headed.
> > 
> > Once I suggested on this list when systemd first debuted with Jessie
> > about choosing an init at install time as an option. It was not well
> > received.  Many said it couldn't be done or was impractical. My reply
> > was, if you can change inits AFTER the install completes, why not
> > BEFORE.  
> 
> I think it's beneficial to keep the d-i as simple as possible.
> Once you've installed the system, all the tools are now available
> for changing the init system to whichever one you choose. Adding
> that to the d-i just bloats it (for everyone) without any
> *essential* benefit to anyone.

The install includes lots of choices like print server, server or
desktop system, GUI, laptop utilities, etc. that are "bloat-worthy" and
can be installed after the main install has completed.  I know.  I used
to do it back in the day. I still do to a certain extent even today.
But now those choices are an integral part of the install.  So, why not
init? Can't even spare a few hundred K? Ridiculous irrantionale. We're
talking CD/DVDs not floppies.

As far as what constitutes "essential": Shouldn't the user decide
that?  Or, at least, have a say so?  What has happened to the basic
philosophy of good business: Satisfy the customer?

I'm not against systemd, per se, just against having it forced on me
by way of dependencies. I don't think the init should ever be a
dependency. Of anything.  It's too basic to the system.  

> > The thread died of apathy shortly thereafter with no resolution.  
> 
> Perhaps because you didn't supply any patches for switching to
> even one other init system (within the d-i, or as a post-installation
> script).

Didn't need scripts.  Debian already had the ability to switch to
sysvinit (probably because so many objected to systemd) by simply
installing sysvinit-core.  If it's that simple, why not make it part of
the install.  Yes, you won't be able to use GNOME, but freedom of choice
comes with consequences as do all choices.

B

Back to linux.debian.user | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) bw <bwtnguy@yahoo.com> - 2019-05-28 18:50 +0200
  Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2019-05-29 20:20 +0200
    Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-06-02 07:50 +0200
      Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2019-06-03 07:40 +0200
        Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2019-06-03 10:10 +0200
          Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2019-06-03 10:40 +0200
            Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 06:40 +0200
          Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-06-03 13:10 +0200
          Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 06:30 +0200
            Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-06-18 19:20 +0200
        Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-06-03 15:00 +0200
          Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-06-03 15:30 +0200
            Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-06-03 15:50 +0200
              Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-06-03 16:40 +0200
                Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-06-03 17:00 +0200
        Re: lightweight wifi UI (Was: Insidious systemd) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-06-18 19:20 +0200

csiph-web