Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

From	Bret Busby <bret@busby.net>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio
Date	2023-08-14 00:40 +0200
Message-ID	<H2rUD-1Fcv-49@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <H1KmB-1bKe-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <H1L8Z-1c0e-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <H26ZP-1pS4-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <H2ah3-1rNg-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <H2p6r-1Can-65@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On 14/8/23 03:36, davidson wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 Andy Smith wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 13, 2023 at 12:12:49AM +0000, davidson wrote:
>>> The foregoing demonstration is meant to show how, using alpine's
>>> threaded mode, I minimise my irritation with threads that I find
>>> irrelevant to my interests
>>
>> Unfortunately no matter how advanced your MUA is, it doesn't help
>> against prolific posters who derail nearly every thread with copious
>> amounts of irrelevance and outright false information.
> 
> This is a higher bar than merely neutralising the disruption (to one's
> own use of the list) caused by a popular thread that one has little
> interest in.
> 
> And here, my instincts are screaming "Leave it here. Stop now. Leave
> well enough alone for the sake of all that is holy!"
> 
> However, and speaking only for myself, I'll bite:
> 
> Being able to see a thread's messages structured as a tree of message
> headers (author, subject) can indeed help me infer quite a bit about
> what's going on, before I bother to dig in and actually read any of
> the messages' content.
> 
> For example, let P and Q be two regularly prolific participants, P
> with exceptionally high signal-to-noise contributions, and Q a hot
> willfully clueless mess. If there is a branch of the tree that is just
> a chain of back-and-forth between P and Q --Q.P.Q.P.Q...-- then I know
> what's going on in there and so some OTHER branch will be my first
> destination, unless I'm in the mood for a laugh.
> 
>> You can easily see from looking at most of the large threads here,
>> the points at which they go off the rails and the common factors
>> involved there.
> 
> I can indeed. Without seeing the tree structure, I do not think it
> would be so easy to see.
> 
>> It is a difficult problem to solve as mailing lists like this tend
>> to promote a volume-wins approach,
> 
> You may be correct, but this isn't clear to me. (Unless the object of
> the game is to annoy the greatest number of participants.)
> 
>> and the baseline user will not have an advanced MUA nor necessarily
>> the experience to know that they're reading nonsense.
> 
> When I conquer the world, you will know because /etc/motd will contain
> something like this:
> 
>    Don't enter commands you don't understand, and you won't understand
>    the commands unless you read the manual. If you read the manual, you
>    STILL may not understand the commands. Nevertheless, keep trying,
>    Curious Human. We are rooting for you!
> 
>> Things get easier when you use an advanced MUA, so people should
>> invest the time to do so, but let's not pretend that this will avoid
>> a mega-thread next time some outlandish thread hijack by one of the
>> usual suspects happens.
> 
> My point was simply this: threads I've lost interest in (regardless of
> size) are a single line in my mailbox, provided I do not delete its
> initial message.
> 
>> Does this particular thread go much better if you assume that
>> everyone participating (except the OP, who doesn't know how to
>> unsubscribe, or how to spell it) is fully competent at efficiently
>> managing email but still posts as they posted?
> 
> Funnily enough, if you look carefully, you can see some utterly
> slapstick confusion of that very nature in this thread, over who is to
> blame for posting a red-herring link to the Alpine Linux distro
> mailing list:
> 
> %<------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>      18159 Thursday   glenn green                   (6K) . UNUBSCRIBE
>      ...   ...        ...                           ...    ...
> [1] 18192 Yesterday  fjd                           (7K) .   |       \-Alpine was
> [2] 18193 Yesterday  Bret Busby                    (8K) .   |         |-Re: Alpi
> [6] 18194  5:55      fjd                           (7K)     |         | |-Re: Al
> [7] 18195  6:11      fjd                           (8K)     |         | \-Re: Al
> [3] 18196 Yesterday  Jeffrey Walton                (7K) .   |         \-Re: Alpi
> [4] 18197 Yesterday  Greg Wooledge                 (5K) .   |           \-Re: Al
> [5] 18198  2:41      Bret Busby                    (9K) .   |             \-Re:
>      18199 Yesterday  David Wright                  (6K)     |               \-Re
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------>%
> 
> Somebody requests a link to an alpine MUA forum or mailing list.
>   [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00333.html
> 
> Somebody posts a link to an alpine MUA mailing list.
>   [2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00341.html
> 
> Somebody else posts a red-herring link, to a mailing list concerning
> the linux distro called Alpine Linux.
>   [3] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00355.html
> 
> Then Greg points out, in reply to the red-herring poster, that they
> have posted a red herring. <-- Here is where the tree structure view
> is illuminating.
>   [4] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00356.html
> 
> And then the person who had posted the CORRECT link in the first place
> apologises for posting the wrong one, and posts the very same correct
> link once again. <-- This person, it would seem, is reading messages
> as a SEQUENCE, not as a TREE. (Because the tree makes clear to whom
> each message is a reply.)
>   [5] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00360.html
> 
> (The person who really HAD posted the red herring says nothing.)
> 
> And then yet another person chimes in to thank the poster of the
> correct MUA list link. And then he follows up, informing us all that
> he has just realised (from reading debian-user, not from examination
> of the link's target) that this (correct) link has been subsequently
> discovered to be incorrect.
>   [6] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00381.html
>   [7] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00382.html
> 
You should be very careful with your systematic lies and false 
accusations on this list.

I am the person who posted the wrong URL for the pine users mailing 
list, and I explicitly apologised for it, and, posted the correct URL 
for the pine users mailing list.

This list has people far more knowledgeable and skilled than me, 
especially regarding what can be done across and beyond the Internet, 
and, if, through your misconduct on this list, you upset them, and they 
decide to retaliate, you could find your life outside this mailing list, 
destroyed.

So, I would be careful of your malicious behaviour on this list, if I 
was you.

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

Thread

UNUBSCRIBE glenn green <glenn.green55@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 04:40 +0200
  Re: UNUBSCRIBE Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2023-08-11 06:40 +0200
    Re: UNUBSCRIBE Luna Jernberg <droidbittin@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 09:00 +0200
      Re: UNUBSCRIBE Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-08-11 11:10 +0200
        Re: UNUBSCRIBE davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2023-08-11 16:00 +0200
          Re: UNUBSCRIBE Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-08-11 16:30 +0200
            Re: UNUBSCRIBE gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-08-11 17:00 +0200
              Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-08-11 20:30 +0200
                Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-08-11 23:40 +0200
                Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-08-12 00:50 +0200
                Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-08-12 01:30 +0200
                Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio zithro <slack@rabbit.lu> - 2023-08-12 02:10 +0200
                List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re: Mailing  list unsubscription requests and identificatio Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-08-12 03:00 +0200
                Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re:  Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2023-08-12 15:30 +0200
                Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re:  Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 03:40 +0200
                Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re:  Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2023-08-13 02:20 +0200
                Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re:  Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2023-08-13 02:30 +0200
                Sorting messages by threads - was - Re: List administrators - request  for intervention Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-08-13 05:10 +0200
                Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re:  Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-08-13 05:50 +0200
                Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re:  Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2023-08-13 21:40 +0200
                Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re:  Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 22:50 +0200
                Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re:  Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2023-08-14 19:00 +0200
                Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re:  Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-08-14 00:40 +0200
                Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re:  Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2023-08-14 20:30 +0200
                Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 03:20 +0200
                Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-08-12 04:40 +0200
                Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio zithro <slack@rabbit.lu> - 2023-08-14 18:30 +0200
                Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-08-14 21:40 +0200
                Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2023-08-12 18:20 +0200
                Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-08-12 21:00 +0200
                Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-08-12 05:20 +0200
                Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 01:30 +0200
                Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2023-08-13 19:00 +0200
                Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio tomas@tuxteam.de - 2023-08-12 06:50 +0200
            Re: UNUBSCRIBE Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-11 17:50 +0200
              Re: UNUBSCRIBE Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-08-11 20:10 +0200
                Re: UNUBSCRIBE Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-12 10:10 +0200
                Re: UNUBSCRIBE Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-08-12 12:20 +0200
            Re: UNUBSCRIBE debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2023-08-11 19:10 +0200
          Re: UNUBSCRIBE Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-08-11 20:00 +0200
            Alpine was: UNUBSCRIBE fjd <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 04:20 +0200
              Re: Alpine was: UNUBSCRIBE Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-08-12 12:10 +0200
                Re: Alpine was: UNUBSCRIBE fjd <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 06:00 +0200
                Re: Alpine was: UNUBSCRIBE fjd <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 06:20 +0200
              Re: Alpine was: UNUBSCRIBE Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 16:50 +0200
                Re: Alpine was: UNUBSCRIBE Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-08-12 17:10 +0200
                Re: Alpine was: UNUBSCRIBE Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-08-12 20:50 +0200
                Re: Alpine was: UNUBSCRIBE David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-08-13 01:30 +0200
    Re: UNUBSCRIBE Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2023-08-11 17:50 +0200
      Re: UNUBSCRIBE Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2023-08-11 21:50 +0200

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