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Re: buggy N-M (was: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface on an old laptop) computer

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On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 08:14:40AM -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 8:01 AM Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 09:41:22AM +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 04:47:07PM -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:
> > >
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > > And N-M is not "buggy". [...]
> > >
> > > Uh-huh.
> > >
> >
> > What a great argument!
> >
> > But I play along.
> > Are there bugs filed against N-M? Yes there are!
> > Are there reasons why people have issues with N-M? You bet!
> >
> > Up until Jessie N-M had a lot of issues and missing features, which led to
> > ....
> > But since buster, if you trust the work and knowledge of the
> > package maintainers N-M results in reliable network configurations
> > when we are talking about a default desktop setup. Most issues here
> > are mainly related to propietary drivers from various chip
> > manufacturers and not an N-M issue.
> >
> 
> But please stress your comment "when we are talking about a default desktop
> setup". In the non-desktop server environment, N-M is disabled. Indeed it
> is a type of risk. Last times I've been on AWS and Google cloud, their VM
> instances also remove N-M. Same reason.
> In these environments wifi does not exist, so network connections should be
> known ahead of time, and a fixed set.

That is fair! And I guess this maybe plays into your argument too,
but I think (not sure though) even if you install debian without
DE, N-M  still is installed.
But I agree this is not necessary. Complexity baaad. Simplicity good!
:)

> 
> My comment to the OP was basically on the nebulous source (most VPN
> > Providers)
> > and the generalized categorization (N-M is buggy), which I disagree with.
> >
> 
> That is not the view that I have heard expressed.
> N-M is a 1-size-fits-all approach to network setup that only fits 1
> use-case. But we all get to have it :-)
> Some developers would call it "over engineered". That I agree with.
> 
> -H
> >
> >
> > --
> > Henning Follmann           | hfollmann@itcfollmann.com
> >
> >

-- 
Henning Follmann           | hfollmann@itcfollmann.com

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Re: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface on an old laptop  computer <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-09-27 17:00 +0200
  Re: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface on an old laptop  computer David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-09-27 17:40 +0200
    Re: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface on an old laptop  computer Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2021-09-27 19:10 +0200
      Re: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface on an old laptop  computer Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-09-27 21:10 +0200
        Re: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface on an old laptop  computer Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2021-09-27 22:50 +0200
          Re: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface on an old laptop  computer <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-09-28 09:50 +0200
            buggy N-M (was: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface on an  old laptop) computer Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2021-09-28 15:10 +0200
              Re: buggy N-M (was: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface on  an old laptop) computer Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2021-09-28 15:20 +0200
                Re: buggy N-M (was: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface  on an old laptop) computer Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2021-09-28 16:20 +0200
              Re: buggy N-M (was: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface  on an old laptop) computer <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-09-28 16:20 +0200
                Re: buggy N-M (was: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface on  an old laptop) computer Cindy Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2021-09-28 16:40 +0200
                Re: buggy N-M (was: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface  on an old laptop) computer <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-09-28 17:30 +0200
                Re: buggy N-M (was: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface  on an old laptop) computer Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-10-02 09:30 +0200
                Re: buggy N-M (was: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface  on an old laptop) computer Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-09-28 20:20 +0200
                Re: buggy N-M (was: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface  on an old laptop) computer Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-09-28 21:00 +0200
                Re: buggy N-M (was: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface  on an old laptop) computer Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-09-28 21:30 +0200
                Re: buggy N-M (was: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface  on an old laptop) computer <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-09-29 08:50 +0200
                Re: buggy N-M (was: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface on  an old laptop) computer Markus Schönhaber <debian-user@list-post.mks-mail.de> - 2021-09-29 09:40 +0200
              Re: buggy N-M (was: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface on  an old laptop) computer Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2021-09-29 06:10 +0200
          Re: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface on an old laptop  computer Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-09-28 11:40 +0200
            Re: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface on an old laptop computer Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2021-09-28 14:40 +0200
    Re: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface on an old laptop  computer Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-09-27 21:10 +0200
  Re: Debian 11: Unable to detect wireless interface on an old laptop  computer Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-09-27 21:10 +0200

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